Somebody At The Denver Post Is Wrong
Something has happened to the hockey writers at the Denver Post this season. Terry Frei, long known for his doom-and-gloom assessments of the Avalanche during the Coach Q era, has shifted to a much more balanced, rational tone this year. His colleague Adrian Dater, once an apparent kindred spirit to the wiseguys (and gals) here at MHH, has gone the other direction entirely. Now he's the Post's Chicken Little.
If you'll remember, Dater wrote this in a recent post at All Things Avs:
We’ll see what happens, but the Avs have bigger issues to contend with: namely, a team that has zero faith in its goaltending, one that is always looking over their shoulder worried about every shot against.
A bold statement that he couldn't cite to anything but his own intuition, but he stuck to it and probably still believes it.
Well, today Frei posted a preview of the road trip the Avs begin tonight against the Canucks in Vancouver. His first two sentences appear to have been written just for his coworker:
Sure, Avalanche goaltender Peter Budaj has been inconsistent in the first month of the season. But hasn't everybody? Indeed, no doubt about it. Budaj has been up and down all year, but his down has been a lot shallower than the down of the defense, which has been sucking something awful on a much more consistent basis. But what about that whole "zero faith" thing? Said Avalanche defenseman Scott Hannan: "We have trust in him. We have to keep playing well in front of him. In some of those games, I'm sure he might want a few goals back, but so would the 'D' and so would the team. It's a breakdown from the offensive zone back that causes scoring opportunities. Hmm. Interesting. That sounds extremely similar to what the valiant MHH community has been saying for some time now. Maybe Hannan is a liar, but at least Frei was able to get somebody to go on the record and didn't just toss the goalie under the freight train on a hunch. Oh, and in case you haven't read it yet, Frei made an excellent goalie-related blog post of his own the other day. It's the most even-handed thing I've seen written about Peter Budaj and the Avalanche "goalie situation" by any journalist so far this season. It's really good, even if I disagree with the argument that the Avs need to be goalie shopping if they're not already. But hey, compared to Dater's drivel, I'll gladly let that one slide. ADDENDUM: Oh, and Frei offers another accurate look at Colorado's woes so far this year over at the Four Letter.
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As much as I want to...
I can’t believe Scott Hannan. It violates my “never trust a man with a mullet” life rule. I don’t have many so it’s important I follow the rules I do have.
I believe in Peter Budaj
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 12, 2008 9:50 AM MST reply actions
In his defense, his mullet appears somewhat shorter this year than in past years.
Go Avs! Let's get some goals!
True
I’ll only believe half of what he said:
"We have trust in him. We have to keep playing well in front of him… It’s a breakdown from the offensive zone back that causes scoring opportunities.
I believe in Peter Budaj
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 12, 2008 10:19 AM MST up reply actions
In AD's defense
At least he allows comments on his blog. I don’t understand why Frei doesn’t.
MHH: Shagging Dater one contributor at a time.
by Bob in Boulder on Nov 12, 2008 10:16 AM MST reply actions
With the exception of some guy called “BiB” and a couple others, everyone that comments at the Denver Post tends to display little in the way of rational thought. I don’t blame Frei one bit.
Or maybe he’s just old school and is stuck to the print journalist maxim that he talks to the people but the people don’t talk to him.
Go Avs! Let's get some goals!
Yeah, that “BiB” guy is pretty cool. And there is this one guy who pops in and does these ping back things like he is arranging some sort of lovefest with AD.
I have actually emailed Frei in the past and received pretty thoughtful responses. For one issue I have emailed him back and forth on, the insidious way that the Avs misrepresent their high ticket prices, Frei has written about the issue on a few occasions, including the middle blurb in this article from Sunday. He believes the Av real average ticket price is about 2nd highest in the league, and neither one of us can even come close to imagining how they come up with the figure they release for public consumption.
MHH: Shagging Dater one contributor at a time.
by Bob in Boulder on Nov 12, 2008 11:10 AM MST up reply actions
I've always assumed that the contrasting views were intentional
I know that personally I will regularly take the opposite side of an argument with my friends and co-workers just for the sake of having a good debate….even if I didn’t necessarily completely believe the stance I was taking. I have to think that these two would do a bit of the same.
So it could be for the sake of keeping things interesting for the two of them…or it could be cynically aimed at trying to keep every reader happy with at least one of the writers. It also conviently leads to the opposite of what you started off saying…which would be “Somebody at the Denver Post is Right”, and no newspaper is going to want to be unanimously wrong in their evaluation of anything.
I know that personally I will regularly take the opposite side of an argument with my friends and co-workers just for the sake of having a good debate
I do that a lot with my students…not so much because I want to disagree/argue with them, but because I want them to think about what they are saying. Too many people today speak without thinking first. At least Frei sources the points he is trying to make. Who knows where Dater is getting his material lately?
Now and then we had the hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be PIRATES.
-Mark Twain-
by Americanario on Nov 12, 2008 1:04 PM MST up reply actions
J C just go tell the teacher somebody is calling your friend names
I used to come on this website to read about anything I could regarding the Avs.Now all I see is “dater is trashing Budaj” or “now he’s just making it up”.I mean seriously,just start another web site Dater’s hater’s, or how about blind for Budaj or some such nonsense, because this is all getting old.
This team is not playing very well,and no it’s not all the goalie’s fault,BUT it’s the goalie’s job to stop the bleeding,to not allow a weak goal early(which does hurt a team’s confidence,admit it or not),to hold the fort untill his team gets the legs going.The ones that do those sort of things are real starters in this league.
Now I’m not trashing Budaj,in fact I believed all summer, like you guys, Budaj would be fine,not brilliant but somewhere in the 2.65 gaa,.90% sp,and if he was we would be looking good right now.But he is not,and we don’t even have another guy we could play to help budaj with some of the pressure,it might help,couldn’t hurt.I just don’t see Budaj getting the job done,I hope he gets it turned around, cause at this rate THN might be right.
One last thing;how many games as the #1 goalie do we give Budaj,before we should react?10?,20?or do we just miss the playoffs because he deserved his chance and its really the defense’s fault for allowing any shot to reach the net.
One last thing;how many games as the #1 goalie do we give Budaj,before we should react?10?,20?or do we just miss the playoffs because he deserved his chance and its really the defense’s fault for allowing any shot to reach the net.
Well Scotty Bowmen always wanted around 20 games to judge his team…most around here have said some where around 10. So we are there, but ycan you fairly judge the goalie when the shots he is facing are repeatedly in his kitchen. No one expects the defense to keep every shot from the net. You expect them to cut the quality of the shots down, mostly by keeping them to the outside and putting a body on the shooter. You expect them to clear people out in front of then net and not allow those guys to get a clean shot. When that isn’t happening and you are allowing the opposition forwards to unload within 5 feet of the goalie, good things can not be expected from any goalie.
Through 14 games (11 for Budaj) We have seen a little bit of everything. He has shown some bad tendencies that can get him in trouble if his defense is having a bad night. He has shown the presence to be a good goalie even when his defense leaves him stranded on an island. When the defense actually plays in front of him, he can make the big saves needed to maintain the win, and maybe even record the rare shutout (like he did vs Nashville). He normally puts his rebounds towards the boards or in areas that reduce the likely hood of creating a scoring chance. When he doesn’t or can’t (physics is physics people) he must rely on that defense to clear that rebound and not give the opposition a clean shot on it. It still has to be a team effort. Budaj needs to continue to improve and the rest of the team needs to play a full 60 minutes EVERY night.
Now and then we had the hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be PIRATES.
-Mark Twain-
by Americanario on Nov 12, 2008 1:49 PM MST up reply actions
Who's JC?
Or what does JC mean?
I believe in Peter Budaj
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 12, 2008 1:52 PM MST up reply actions
I think...
he’s referring to a vaunted figure of Christianity. But by using initials, is avoiding possible eternal damnation. But don’t kid yourself…J C knows who you meant, BC mike ;)
he’s referring to a vaunted figure of Christianity.
John Cleese?

I believe in Peter Budaj
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 12, 2008 2:05 PM MST up reply actions
so answer me this
do you REALLY think that Budaj is the only problem with this team?
no one here thinks Budaj has been great, in fact, this very article agrees with Frei that he’s been inconsistent. He could have been much better. but to focus in on this one issue seems a bit out of place when the offense hasn’t been scoring and the defense has been passive and plain awful. To point to Budaj’s stats as definitive proof that he’s the problem is even more asinine — goaltender stats are linked to the play of the team. What I can say is that i’ve watched them play and Budaj has been an issue some nights, and the D has been the issue many more.
THATS the issue we have with Dater. He continues to rail against Budaj like he’s the source of all issues with the Avs. He’s not, there’s more to it. I do wish Budaj’d be more consistent and help to cover some of the other flaws that the team has, but all we can do is wait and see.
I mean seriously,just start another web site Dater’s hater’s, or how about blind for Budaj or some such nonsense, because this is all getting old.
You hate this blog and yet you’re still here commenting. And with such excellent grammar. I encourage constructive criticism and disagreement, but next time try to leave a little less spittle on the keyboard.
Go Avs! Let's get some goals!
Notice also
That Terry Frei had this to say
No matter what they said, his teammates were shaking their heads about his play and questioning whether he could be the long-term answer.
Which I take to mean that the signals AD has been getting are not just fiction. And yes, your team will play worse when it has no faith in the goalie, I’ve been on a few teams like that. Please don’t take this as saying I blame Budaj entirely, because that doesn’t excuse shoddy d-man play. But it does also raise the issue of serious chemistry problems in the locker room, something Lappy either pointed out or exacerbated by calling out certain players on the team, and teams with no chemistry also don’t go far.
Si I guess I haven’t given up on the team yet this year but its starting to get worrisome. We’ll see which avs team shows up this road trip, cuz it could be the harbinger of things to come.
I definitely saw that sentence in Frei’s post, and I agree with him. But he also mentioned that players were dumping the blame on each other instead of on themselves, and that Budaj was being scapegoated unfairly. It’s one thing to lose confidence in the goalie if it really is his fault. It’s another to lose confidence in the goalie when you’re as much to blame and you’re too big a dick to accept responsibility yourself.
Frei’s comment carried a far different implication than Dater’s in this case.
And at any rate, if there was a crisis of confidence, Boots has gone a long way to shoring that up with his last two games.
Go Avs! Let's get some goals!



















