Is The Hartley Clock Already Ticking For Granato?

by Joe Dunman on Nov 4, 2008 11:38 AM MST in News Comment 28 comments

Hartley_avs_medium

In 2002-03, the Colorado Avalanche had a deep, impressive lineup. After a disappointing end to the 2001-02 season, the Avs were looking to make another run for the Stanley Cup, and it was Patrick Roy's final chance for a fifth championship ring.

Behind the bench was Bob Hartley, the fiery jerk responsible for the Bourque Cup of 2000-01. To that point he had enjoyed considerable success as the head coach of the Avalanche, and the team had no reason to doubt his abilities as the 02-03 season got underway.

Unfortunately for him, somebody had switched on the mediocrity machine in the Pepsi Center and the Avs got off to a lousy start. After 31 games, the Avs were 10-8-9-4 ("win-loss-tie-OT loss" for those of you who don't remember or were too young). That crappy beginning proved enough for the Avalanche front office and Hartley was sent packing. In his place, Colorado promoted new assistant coach Tony Granato to the top spot.

Granato seized the opportunity and ran with it, finishing the regular season with a 32-11-4-4 record and another divisional title.

But could Granato face the same fate as Hartley if the first 31 games (or some similar number) find the Avs in the dumps? So far, after 12 games, the Avs are a lousy 5-7-0 and sit lonely at the bottom of the Northwest pile. What if the team's win percentage stays roughly consistent and they find themselves at 12-19-0? Does Granato get the ax? Who would step in to bail the Avalanche out? Are there any legitimate coaching replacements just floating around out there?

Or would the Avalanche front office stick with the Company Man for a full season and then part ways next summer?

Granato has had flashes of brilliance (at least on offense early in the season), but the defense inexplicably sucks and the special teams are mediocre. And if the offense has a bad night (like they have for the past four games), there's little chance they can hang in there for the win. How much of this is Granato's fault? And how many more rhetorical questions can I ask in a single post? One more?

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Comments

I’m not sure the management has many concerns at this point…we are still hearing the sunny side of things, even though Lappy has lambasted the defense after the San Jose game, and Granato seems to be starting to struggle to find the “rosy” words in post-game interviews.

Just a quick thought, Savard is available since Q took his job in Chicago. Not sure if we would want to go that way, but there you go, a name for discussion.

Now and then we had the hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be PIRATES.
-Mark Twain-

by Americanario on Nov 4, 2008 12:07 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Is it too late to not fricken hire him? And to maybe interview other candidates? FG really crapped the bed this offseason in many ways. At least that is how it is looking now. And no, I’m not EVEN talking about letting Theo walk.

MHH: Shagging Dater one contributor at a time.

by Bob in Boulder on Nov 4, 2008 12:11 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Also Avaialable

Hartley… Symmetry folks.

I believe in Peter Budaj

by Jibblescribbits on Nov 4, 2008 12:33 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Hartley, replaced by Granato. Granato, replaced by Hartley? I’m not sure the universe can handle that.

InYoFace Phadouche! InYoFace

by InYoFace on Nov 4, 2008 12:51 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Hartley was a damn good coach. Not sure what happened in Atlanta, but 4 straight years of at least getting to game 7 of the WCF, including one SC championship, ain’t shabby no matter what players you have. And I still say Granato took a loaded team the following year and a half and crapped out in the playoffs miserably. Including the first round nightmare against Minnesota that ended Roy’s career …. courtesy of an OT winner in game 7 by Bruno.

I didn’t understand the Granato hiring the first time around, and I really didn’t understand it this time around. He supposedly led one of th worst PPs in the history of hockey last season. Sure, he has some philosophical improvements over Q. But bottom line, can he coach? One thing I remember very well was how outclassed he was by Lemaire against the Wild in the 2003 playoffs.

MHH: Shagging Dater one contributor at a time.

by Bob in Boulder on Nov 4, 2008 1:00 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Nah. Give the guy a chance. I know he’s not the first pick, but I really think he’ll get it together. But what do I know? I’m just an Oklahoman who likes hockey on VS…

by Mrs @ MHH on Nov 4, 2008 12:56 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

I missed something. Did Joe rag on Oklahoma?

MHH: Shagging Dater one contributor at a time.

by Bob in Boulder on Nov 4, 2008 1:01 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Kinda. Go read his blog interview that he posted yesterday.

by Mrs @ MHH on Nov 4, 2008 1:22 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, this?

Get the seats full, and then worry about who in Oklahoma is watching a Coyotes game on Versus. Quit pandering to people who don’t care, and pander to those who already do.

He could have at least picked Kentucky!

MHH: Shagging Dater one contributor at a time.

by Bob in Boulder on Nov 4, 2008 1:26 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I think he was sticking with the states he was confident he could spell correctly. Oklahoma just barely edged out Mississippi

by David Driscoll-Carignan on Nov 4, 2008 2:08 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

So

Ohio was right out.

I believe in Peter Budaj

by Jibblescribbits on Nov 4, 2008 2:57 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Well

Ohio is actually hockey country.

Sure, they have a crappy team, with a crappy name.

But the people there love the game.

Mir ist egal.

by Selanne on Nov 4, 2008 4:11 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I know

I was making fun of Joe more than Ohio. I lived in Columbus for 2 years and know it could be a great hockey town if they got a team they deserved

I believe in Peter Budaj

by Jibblescribbits on Nov 4, 2008 10:43 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

is it too soon

for the front office to consider something like that. What would that really accomplish? So far this season I have noticed this is a streaky team. Lose 3 win 5 lose 4. Maybe they just need time to jell a little more. Play better defense in front of Budaj. I know I was critical of the goaltending early but lets see what happens. Its a long season. I can still see this team getting 96 points or so and making the playoffs. But, honestly can this team win a cup with what they have? I want to say yes, but I havent seen enough of them yet to actually say that

somethings wrong, Trying to conquer these fears i thought were gone. And it's been so long, I'm dying to live in a world i don't belong

by broncfanstuckinsd on Nov 4, 2008 1:30 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

It is too early to think about firing the coach. Even Hartley’s firing was strange in the fact that it seemed to be just to wake up the team after a slow start rather than changing coaching styles or strategies.

As far as cup contender? Probably not. But you never know, they just need to get into playoff contention and take it from there. 8th seeds have made the finals before.

InYoFace Phadouche! InYoFace

by InYoFace on Nov 4, 2008 4:21 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

It could hardly make things worse, to be honest.

by eltharion_doa on Nov 4, 2008 8:50 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Instead of firing Granato...

…why not trade Paul Stastny and Ben Guite to Calgary for Derek Morris, Dean McAmmond, and Jeff Shantz?

I’m going to go gargle bleach now.

Above Average.

by Don Balls on Nov 4, 2008 9:37 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Dude.

Make it Drano.

Not cool.

by SlamDunkTheFunk on Nov 4, 2008 10:31 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Drano? maybe hydrochloric acid.

Now and then we had the hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be PIRATES.
-Mark Twain-

by Americanario on Nov 5, 2008 9:59 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I’d love to see Q just coach the defense.

We’d win another Cup

26 Card Jet

by Tommelot on Nov 5, 2008 4:42 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

whats wrong with coach granato?

I see nothing wrong with Coach Tony Granato. He is just in a tough situation early with this current team. This is all thanks to Francois Giguere. He is the worst general manager in recent hockey history besides mike milbury. I mean who signs darcy tucker and andrew raycroft and expects a successful season? Giguere has done nothing but mess up the avs since he took over. But then again we can also thank pierre lacroix for screwing us over by trading david aebischer for jose theodore. Theodore was a washed up wannabe before he even came to colorado and to think he was going to be like patrick roy and turn his career around is foolish! Nobody can compare to patrick roy ever.

What we need to do is give budaj a chance and see what he can do up until the all star break then consider going after a more proven goalie. But until that point just give the young slovak goalie a chance.

by lcbfischer on Nov 5, 2008 8:43 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Well...

I think as has been stated around here a few times, Granato leads a great offensive onslaught…when it’s working. When it fails, the defense is leakier than the pipes in your great grandmother’s house. He’s also managed to take all the talent on this team and craft a middle of the road powerplay unit (though so far it’s a little better than last year’s), and a bottom feeder PK unit. There’s way too much talent on this team for it to be in such a mediocre state like it has been. Hopefully the lights come on for a few guys, and play picks back up.

by SlamDunkTheFunk on Nov 5, 2008 9:00 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

middle of the road powerplay unit (though so far it’s a little better than last year’s

It’s not like the PP could be any worse than last years.

"To have arrived on this Earth as a product of a biological accident, only to depart through human arrogance, would be the ultimate irony"
R. Leakey, Origins; 1977
"Two roads divurged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by, and that has made all the difference"
R. Frost

by Savage33 on Nov 5, 2008 11:28 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Hey

I was being nice again, okay?

by SlamDunkTheFunk on Nov 5, 2008 11:38 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

If this sh!t keeps up

I’ll be ready to ride Granato and FG out of town way before the season is over. Can PL and a real NHL coach save this team? I don’t know, but things aren’t looking good.

MHH: Shagging Dater one contributor at a time.

by Bob in Boulder on Nov 7, 2008 11:22 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Why would we want PL involved in saving this team? He made two good trades in his tenure, and had a hockey god fall in his lap. He gave away Drury and Tanguay, hasn’t drafted a #1 goalie (Budaj supporters aside), and could NOT pick up defenseman in the draft to save his life. He’s the one who instituted the Granato Era v1.0 and he hand-picked Giguere. I’m not sure I want him in on any ‘fixes’ for this franchise…

Colorado Avalanche: Gellin' and Propellin'!!!

by Mike @ MHH on Nov 7, 2008 11:42 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree that PL screwed the pooch on several occasions, especially starting with Drury and then how he handled the salary cap, but the bottom line is that he helped build a team that won two cups and was almost always in contention for the cup in other years. Heck, he made three great trades during his first year in Denver (Lemieux, Ozo and Roy) … not sure where you get your two good trades in his tenure? He got first round draft picks for the following players: Ricci, Simon, Landon fricken Wilson, and Fiset (a swap). And say what you will about his trade deadline moves, but at least with Lacroix, you always knew the Avs were frontrunners for the big names on the block.

I also think by canning Granato and FG, he would be doing something that his overinflated ego hasn’t allowed him to do since the salary cap, admit mistakes. That would be a huge step for PL. Bottom line for me is that even with the mistakes he made, he was still one of the best GMs in sports for many years. Now we have some smiling idiot who leaps with joy after signing Toronto rejects.

MHH: Shagging Dater one contributor at a time.

by Bob in Boulder on Nov 7, 2008 12:23 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I was talking about Bourque and Blake and I guess I had defensemen on the brain. Still, Roy and to a large extent, Forsberg fell into his lap due to luck. I agree that he did a good to great job as GM PRIOR TO THE SALARY CAP when he had bottomless buckets of cash, and that’s why we were always front-runners at trade deadline time. But we’ve never seen PL do a great job on a budget, and I’d venture a guess that his move out of the GM position coinciding with the salary cap era wasn’t happenstance. I’m just not convinced he has the skill-set to operate under the new CBA to the degree that fans expect.

Colorado Avalanche: Gellin' and Propellin'!!!

by Mike @ MHH on Nov 7, 2008 2:27 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs