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Armchair Asst. GM

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Following up on DD's post about untouchable/touchable players, I thought I'd throw the following out there: If you were starting the team from scratch today, and had your pick of five of the current players, who would you take and why?  This way, there's no clutter about who is tradeable and NTC's and NMC's, just a very simple premise:

Who is the nucleaus of the team over the next 4-6 years? Who's your Five Alive?!?!?

My five are as follows:

SoS - Do we even need to discuss this?

The Baron - I think his growth was stifled under Q, but there's still time for him to be Hejduk v2.0.

Liles - Getting better every season, IMO.  Another who suffered somewhat under the previous regime.

Boods - The cap # alone is reason enough, and I feel that he will continue to improve.

Hensick - A little bit of a flyer on this one, but I like his playmaking skills and his work ethic.

My second tier is filled with guys like Jones, Lappy, Leopold, Guite, Smyth, and Hejduk.  That list is longer in the tooth, but are all important cogs for the foreseeable short term.

Anyway, that's where my brain ended up after DD's excellent post, and I thought I'd clutter the front page rather than the comments section, since my take was a tad different.

0 recs  |  Comment 23 comments |

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I think that this post may have just depressed me

I want to come up with clear replacement for Hensick on that list, because I’m not completely sold on him…..but I can’t really. If it weren’t for the injury history I’d probably go with Leo since:
1. he is a defenseman so you have a nice core of 2 forwards, 2 D, and 1 goalie
2. His contract gives you lots of room to build a team around
3. I’m horribly biased.

But realistically the best counter arguement I have is: Have you considered a core of 4?

by exredcoat on Dec 18, 2008 9:16 AM MST reply actions   0 recs

Five Keepers:

Stastny
Stewart
Wolski
Liles
Leopold (he won me over before the penalty shot)

I like Peter Budaj, but he’s not irreplaceable. He’s a great, under-appreciated goalie, but his low cap price won’t be there forever, and there are always more goalies floating about, even if their abilities wax and wane more than my participation on game threads.

I picked the five guys with the best age/talent ratio, in my opinion. Honestly, it’s probably a toss up between Jones/Hensick/Stewart, but Stewart is so big and imposing that he could easily be the next Rick Nash. When is the last time the Avs had a really great power forward, anyway?

Go Avs! Let's get some goals!

by Joe Dunman on Dec 18, 2008 9:25 AM MST reply actions   0 recs

I was just talking about this with my dad the other day — the Avs are a team of B players, and have a system of B prospects. This isn’t a bad thing — I’m using a scale of C = average, B = decent, A = great.

In that context, we have 1 A players, a true core guy: Stastny. Smyth might go here too, but a lot of people get down on Smyth and he’s not the flashy game breaker we’ve been used to, but he’s a game breaker nonetheless. I give him an A-/B+ grade Hejduk and Liles are probably B+/A- type guys - exactly what you need as a complement to A/A+ players, but not really game breakers on their own. Sakic was a A+ player, but has been that A/B+ guy the last couple years, sadly. Almost everyone else, for their position, is a B player or less. Wolski (will probably turn into a A-/B+ guy), Svatos, Leo, Lappy, Codys, Jones, etc — for what they are, they’re above average. There’s a couple poorer players in there - Arny and (so far this year) Salei have been C so far.

But the NHL is a league in which you need about 3-4 game breakers to be a top caliber team. Even if we count Smyth as a game breaker (which I’m not sure he is), we’re 1 short. We need another top flight center for a 1 -2 punch, a true #1 defenseman, or a true stud goalie. None of these guys are coming up in the system, though we have some good B type guys in Stewart, Shattenkirk, and Williams.

What made Pierre Lacroix successful was his ability to turn the Avs’ decent drafting in quantity into those game breakers; to find when a team was stuck getting rid of an A player — like Blake, Bourque or Roy — and leverage our glut of decent young guys. In his later years, he missed on a couple of those moves and depleted the system trying to compensate. Well, guess what: the system is full of those good-but-not-great young guys again, and it’s time to leverage the strength of the organization. I would say that Jay Bouwmeester is a prime candidate for this move, and if Drury can be had for as little as they say, he’s another candidate.

by thedoctor on Dec 18, 2008 9:53 AM MST reply actions   0 recs

hm, tags got borked somehow.

by thedoctor on Dec 18, 2008 9:54 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I think based on your logic that Kovalchuk should be a target. He is certainly a top flight talent, and I imagine that he’d do pretty well with Stastny feeding him the puck. My only hesitation really is that I’d rather see the Avs target another center as you said.

I love Drury, but I do not feel the same love for his contract.

by exredcoat on Dec 18, 2008 10:04 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

This is good, except we need a center. But I would LOVE to see Kovalchuk on this team. I’d throw him is 8.25 Mil per season, no question. That guy dominates games even on one of the crappiest teams in the history of the NHL.

The Angry Avalanche Nerd.

by BraxtanFILM on Dec 18, 2008 11:00 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

i love kovy too, but big name wingers generally don’t equate with cups. who’s the biggest name wingers off a Stanley cup team the last 10 years? Martin St. Louis? Brenden Shanahan? It’s big time centers that seem to win cups.

by thedoctor on Dec 18, 2008 2:37 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

The best I can come up with are Selanne and Holmstrom. I do agree that a great center is better to have than a great wing, but I don’t see a lot of great centers available via trade.

by exredcoat on Dec 18, 2008 2:49 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

true, but there IS a #1 D man out there.

by thedoctor on Dec 18, 2008 5:10 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Ensign Kirk

I think he’ll be on the team in no less than 2 seasons. I think he’s going to be a stud.

I think Smytty is on that list in place of Hensik. His contract runs until then, and if the Avs are smart they are going to look for that blue-line shot they are missing so that they can fully take advantage of him.

I believe in Peter Budaj

by Jibblescribbits on Dec 18, 2008 9:57 AM MST reply actions   0 recs

Stastny is a no brainer of course.

Wolski – I would stick with him, he has improved in a couple of areas and even though his offensive production has dropped a tad, it hasn’t been but a point or two. Rookie season 50pts, sophomore 48pts.

Liles – maybe, I’m not sold on him completely. He is a good offensive defense-man who is having a better year so far than he did last season. But he’s lacking that big point shot or that big hit that you need in a defense. Leo has a better point shot and is the same age, but isn’t as good offensively, unless you count his penalty shot skills, and has had injuries issues that last two season…

Boods – for the price he’s a good deal, but he still has some work to do and he doesn’t seem mean enough yet.

Hensiiick/Jones/Stewart – this is a tough choice if you had to narrow it down to just one. All three have shown flashes of what they can be, but neither has put together a good enough performance to be considered that next player like SoS, or the Baron did in their rookie seasons. Hensiik and Jones have more of the play maker/score look to them, while Stewart could be the power forward, hard to knock of the puck, slasher this team needs. But hard to tell which one, if any of them, will step up and become that player.

I'm The Canary - but I'm not cute nor cuddly, and I don't sing.

Now and then we had the hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be PIRATES.
-Mark Twain-

by Americanario on Dec 18, 2008 10:14 AM MST reply actions   0 recs

Salary

I think the current contracts are the kicker. I love Ryan Smyth. He has been arguably the Avalanche’s best forward this season. Still Ryan does not put up the #‘s to justify his salary IF you are starting from scratch. On the current Avalanche team, Ryan is or at least was worth his salary because the team would likely make the playoffs where his game and intangibles increase in value exponentially (like my boy Claude Lemieux). If I were to start a team from scratch, I’d really be hesitant to give somebody who isn’t a PPG player $7 million a season.

Assuming current contracts are in place:

  1. Budaj. He’s the best bargain in the NHL right now.
  2. Liles. He’s quick, he moves the puck, he has offensive awareness without sacrificing defensive competance. He is the model D man for the post-lockout NHL.
  3. Staz. He’s an Av long term at a very reasonable cost.
  4. Duke. Hejduk has been way better offensively this year than in previous seasons and has turned into a stellar two way forward. Duke backchecks like a mofo! His salary also is within reason.
  5. Lappy. Brings all the intangibles to the team and community, can score when placed with better linemates, he has had a couple nice seasons statistically. Maybe be more loved by the fans and community per $ spent than any other player in hockey.

My decision would be to base my team around skill and salary. I would still want Smyth on my team if he were available, even at his current salary, but if we are starting from scratch I would certainly want to see what else is available first. Likewise with Hannan and Foote. They aren’t bad, but I’m not at all convinced they’re earning what they’re getting, so I’d at least test the market before I brought them back.

by JonHaven on Dec 18, 2008 10:32 AM MST reply actions   0 recs

I think you could make a pretty strong argument that Tim Thomas is the best bargain in the NHL, not Budaj.
.938 sv %
12-3-3 record
1.96 GAA
1.1 Million against the cap.

Too bad the Avs couldn’t have drafted someone like him Too bad the Nordiques/Avs didn’t hang on to him to make a tandem of Budaj/Thomas at a nice combined cap figure of 1.8 million.

by exredcoat on Dec 18, 2008 10:46 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Yet another Avs debacle I was try to forget….thanks for the painful memory…now I have to go jump.

I'm The Canary - but I'm not cute nor cuddly, and I don't sing.

Now and then we had the hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be PIRATES.
-Mark Twain-

by Americanario on Dec 18, 2008 10:51 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

To be fair, it isn’t like TT was a clear goalie of the future at any time that the Nordiques/Avs owned his rights. In looking up the numbers I found an old Bruins thread that discussed Thomas in 2006 much like many other boards seem to discuss Budaj.

However, the thought that it was possible that we could have had both at their current price? that is just fun to think about.

by exredcoat on Dec 18, 2008 10:58 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry too late, I already jumped….

I'm The Canary - but I'm not cute nor cuddly, and I don't sing.

Now and then we had the hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be PIRATES.
-Mark Twain-

by Americanario on Dec 18, 2008 11:04 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Colorado wasn’t the only team that looked at Thomas and passed. He was in Europe alot before he landed with the Bruins, and by then he was pretty old (for a goalie breaking into the league). When he was in NA, he bounced around some pretty minor, minor leagues (IHL, ECHL) and he never got a shot with the big club until injuries depleted both of the guys in front of him. So it’s not like he was a lights-out guy that the Avs were impatient with. At the time he was relevant to the Avs, he would have had to unseat Patty, and let’s be honest, he ain’t no Patty Roy.

Colorado Avalanche: Gellin' and Propellin'!!!

by Mike @ MHH on Dec 18, 2008 11:50 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

My top 5

Stastny
Smyth
Lappy
Liles
Sakic, who will play until he’s 55 in my dream team.

26 Card Jet

by Tommelot on Dec 18, 2008 11:22 AM MST reply actions   0 recs

My 5, in order

Stastny
Liles
Wolski
Smyth
Hejduk

Stewart, Jones, and Hensick are not irreplaceable now, but they may in the future, so I would never trade them.

I am not including Sakic in these considerations.

by Selanne on Dec 18, 2008 1:40 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

Anyway, that's where my brain ended up after DD's excellent post....

I’ve been looking all over for this, but I don’t think it exists.

The artist formerly known as Draft Dodger

by David Driscoll-Carignan on Dec 18, 2008 1:51 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

Joe’s got it where stashed in the same place he hides the drugs when he crosses the border…

Colorado Avalanche: Gellin' and Propellin'!!!

by Mike @ MHH on Dec 18, 2008 3:14 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Wonder how much that chafes?

I'm The Canary - but I'm not cute nor cuddly, and I don't sing.

Now and then we had the hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be PIRATES.
-Mark Twain-

by Americanario on Dec 18, 2008 3:43 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Alot. He swears lube is for “sissies and Dion Phaneuf”.

Colorado Avalanche: Gellin' and Propellin'!!!

by Mike @ MHH on Dec 18, 2008 3:48 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

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