We Don't Know Anything About Hockey

by Joe Dunman on Feb 25, 2008 11:45 AM MST in NHL News

Since Mile High Hockey's three front page contributors and just about all of its commenting members agree that Coach Joel Quenneville has systematically failed at his job all season long, we know nothing about hockey.

Hockey "experts" like Peter Ruttgaizer (Altitude Sports) and Sandy Clough (Sportsradio 950 The Fan) have decided that Avalanche blogs, message boards, and fans in general, are idiots because we have dared criticize the team's coach. Their main argument: the team suffered injuries to the Three Esses and therefore all else is forgiven.

So let's put aside the league-worst power play, the horrific early-season goalie carousel (and a resurgent, much-improved Jose Theodore who still has a losing record), Tyler Arnason's very existence, Wyatt Smith and all the injustices done to Brad Richardson, and consider just one question:

How is it possible that a team with Joe Sakic, Ryan Smyth and Paul Stastny healthy and in the lineup was able to give up a two-goal lead and lose to the Edmonton Fucking Oilers?

Give a man a microphone and he's even dumber than a man with a keyboard and an Internet connection.

I know it's a huge mental stretch here, but I have a feeling that Mr. Clough and Mr. Ruttgaizer are so scornful of fans and Coach Q critics because 1) they're either paid by or work with Altitude Sports, and/or 2) they fear that criticism would endanger their access to the team for interviews and press conferences.

If I'm right, then those two are just paycheck-chasing cowards attacking the consumers of the product they help provide. I'd like to think I'm not right. Seems like a bad idea in the long run, I'd say. Telling fans of a struggling team with declining ticket sales that they're stupid isn't going to help sell any more tickets, geniuses. Without Avalanche fans following the team, you're out of a job.

But what do I know, I'm just some clown on the Internet. If I had a microphone shoved up my ass I might have a clue.

ADDENDUM: The audacity! The gall!

Coach Q was inexplicably left off of James Mirtle's "Who Deserves The Jack Adams" poll. I guess he's an idiot, too.

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Comments

But

Injuries! His team had injuries! I mean no other team in the league has had injuries. Hell the Ducks didn't have injuries. They were able to play the entire season without their 2 top players and yet stay in playoff contention. But those two players weren't INJURED. They just weren't playing. And they got to open in London.

And the Canucks. I mean they haven't had injuries either. Well at one point they had 5 of their top 6 D not playing, but those aren't super-stars so it obviously should have had no effect on the team.

And let's not get started with the Penguins. I mean they only lost one player. Granted it's the defending MVP, but geez they had Malkin to back him up. I mean it's not like the Avs had a former Richard trophy winner to step in when those guys went down. Oh and they have even had the great Ty Conklin in net. It's not even comparable.

All those injuries have forced Q to juggle his lines and roster so much that you can't fault the guy. I mean it's pretty obvious after 2 shifts whether a line is going to be good or not.

by Jibblescribbits on Feb 25, 2008 11:57 AM MST reply actions

Re: But

Seriously, Pittsburgh and Anaheim should put to rest the idea that even well-coached teams can't excel without their a) captain or b) star players.

by Joe Dunman on Feb 25, 2008 12:19 PM MST up reply actions

there are some sane people out there

Mirtle: I think the Jack Adams should be an award that doesn't just go to the person who "does the most with the least"

systematically failed is too strong a word for me...er, two words. I'm not happy with the job he's done overall, though.

I have no clue who those two guys are. Should I be sad that they don't like me?

by David Driscoll-Carignan on Feb 25, 2008 12:29 PM MST reply actions

Let me clarify

By "systematically failed" I mean that his coaching system has failed.

And yes, you should feel sad. You'll never get that job being a homer on Altitude now, you moron.

by Joe Dunman on Feb 25, 2008 12:32 PM MST up reply actions

In defense of Clough and Co...

I agree that coach Q has underperformed and his job should be in serious question. However, the judgement of message boards and blogs as being "Knuckleheads" might not be too far from the truth. It just depends on what message boards and blogs they are reading. You have all read the official Avalanche blog and know what kind of well reasoned approaches you find there.

It's just like when on message boards or blogs writers call Denver media homers or something of that nature. While the writer may have great examples of specific media that does this, it's not true that all local media is guilty. It's the age old practice of painting everyone with the same brush and generalizing a whole group, thereby offending just about everyone.

To the subject at hand, I think Altitude employees do have a very recognizable defense mechanism for all of their fellow employees. I don't like it and I think it hurts the quality of the product without question. I think it's so bad that Altitude media needs to carefully evaluate how they address any conflict of interest within Kronke Sports. Are Altitude employees in a tough spot? Perhaps but I would hope guys like Clough who have other avenues for voicing their views would be less beholden. Then again, it's hard to say no to a paycheck.

Anyway, when looking to fire Quenville you have to look at his body of work and not just the last several games with the injuries. The case can be easily made that Barry Trotz, Vigneault and Lemaire (for a start) are all doing more with less. Why can't Q fix a powerplay that has sucked before, during and after the injuries? Why do we trust Q's judgement on personnel when Brisebois, Laaksonen, Smith, Vannanen, and Rycroft eat up significant portions of ice time before he realizes they are hurting the team's play? Why should Q get a pass for putting Skrastins out as a 1st pairing defenseman all year long, then after a knee injury realize that Sauer can play hockey? Not only that, but he can play on the top defensive pairing. Who knew Finger was better than Brisebois and Klem but played all year in the AHL? I think he (and possibly his staff) are not great judges of talent. Perhaps their X's and O's are up to snuff (the power play would argue that point) and perhaps their managing of the players in the lockerroom are great. However, there seems to be a LOT of mistakes on judging players.

by Dario on Feb 25, 2008 12:44 PM MST reply actions

Re: In defense

Don't get me wrong, I don't, in any way, dispute that message boards and bloggers are stupid in general. I took issue only with the assertion that calling for Coach Q to be fired was a sign of stupidity. In this case, it's the one thing message boards and blogs have been right on most of this season.

by Joe Dunman on Feb 25, 2008 12:53 PM MST up reply actions

Re: In defense

I'm not dissagreeing with you Joe. I do think some of the calls for his dismissal were premature at the start of the season. However, the way he has botched the goaltending again this year was just crazy. I didn't have the stomach to watch the locker room report after the Edmonton game so I don't know exactly how Clough and Co. responded. However, if it's as simple as some are making it out and that Q is teflon because of the injuries then the knucklehead bloggers are right and Altitude is once again coming off as protectionist homers.

by Dario on Feb 25, 2008 1:15 PM MST up reply actions

Re: In defense

I know we're in agreement, I just didn't want anyone else to misconstrue my words to mean that I was defending everything posted on blogs and message boards.

May the Mile High Hockey circle jerk continue!

by Joe Dunman on Feb 25, 2008 1:29 PM MST up reply actions

Not only this season

You'd think that Q is some "god" of coaching the way these guys seem to be sticking their heads up his arse. But he did the same thing to a good club in St Louis previous to this. Sure they made the playoff his second season there, but he wrecked the goalies there with a similar rotate and baste strategy. His team there was unable to produce and fell from the playoffs the following year. They kept making excuses and the Blues program continued to decline every year he was there. Only now are they starting to recover, yet they still may not the playoffs this season either. Any one who can't see the similarities between what happened in St. Louis and what is happening in Denver is the idiot. Q is a .500 coach. He has never been more and he will never be more than a .500 coach. The sooner he is thrown out of Denver the better.

by Americanario on Feb 25, 2008 1:40 PM MST up reply actions

to be fair

i like Clough. He generally doesn't pull any punches, and he's a smart dude. I can't think of anyone in the Denver sports media that's better than him, and I can think of plenty worse. glares at woody paige

I believe he's definitely missed the boat on this one though. It's seductive and easy to just blame injuries and "buzzard's luck" as they said last night. It's scary that someone this well-versed in sports could be blinded to the myriad of coaching errors and the general malaise that's fallen on the team.

Anyways, Joe and DD, why not email Sandy and challenge him to a semi-formal debate? like an abbreviated, email L-D debate or something, so you each have a chance to respond to each other's points. As a former debate nerd, I'd be happy to officiate. :D I honestly think it would be a really fun and informative discussion -- and a great thing for Colorado hockey.

If he's willing to insult you folks, he should give you a chance to respond, plain and simple.

by thedoctor on Feb 25, 2008 2:10 PM MST reply actions

Re: to be fair

Hey, good idea.

I just sent this:

Sandy,
I'm the editor of MileHighHockey.com, a blog dedicated to the Colorado Avalanche. I took exception to your comments last night after the Edmonton game in which you said (and I'm quoting as accurately as possible):
"Some of these chuckleheads on the message boards and the email system around town are calling for his head. They must be confused and think they're watching the 95-96 Avalanche. This is a team that's 10th over all in the conference, still only 4 pts out of the playoffs, frankly it's miraculous that they're within 15 pts from a playoff spot right now considering the effect of these injuries. Everyone around the league knows it, except the fans around here apparently."
Personally, I think you're both wrong about Coach Quenneville's performance this season and your assessment that fans who criticize him are "chuckleheads" or lacking in knowledge. I'd like to engage you in an informal debate on the matter, if you'd be interested. Since I don't live in the Denver area, I think it would be difficult to coordinate an on-air appearance, so email may have to suffice.
If you're interested, please let me know and we can each present our arguments on various coaching-related topics. I figure we could badmouth each other from a distance, or we could just address each other's points in a civilized manner. Let me know which option you prefer.
Joe
Mile High Hockey

I'll let everyone know his response, if any.

by Joe Dunman on Feb 25, 2008 2:33 PM MST up reply actions

awesome dude

i hope he responds favorably. it would really be fun.

by thedoctor on Feb 25, 2008 3:13 PM MST up reply actions

Re: Clough/Reter Ruttgaizer Quotes

Just so you know Joe, the quotes I posted are word for word, transcribed from a recording of the broadcast. There are just a few things missing. I'm reposting the entire Coach Q Love Fest Segment below, I've bolded the parts not included in my previous post just so you have it in its entirety. The discussion came directly after the Q post game interview BTW. Tori Holt was also on the panel.

Peter Ruttgaizer: "You know, I gotta say, this guy (Q) has done a great job. He's getting criticized by a bunch of people who, quite frankly don't know anything about hockey.(Clough shaking head in agreement, Tori Holt laughs) This guy's done a great job, when you consider his three top forwards out of the lineup, now his two top defensemen, he's held this thing together with barbed wire almost, he's done a great job I think"

Sandy Clough: "And not missing three forwards for three or four games, you're taking about the better part of three months, or he's been without one or for the most part two, and at times all three forwards. Now BY FAR, his two best defensemen are out and some of these chuckleheads on the message boards and the email system around town are calling for his head. They must be confused and think they're watching the 95-96 Avalanche. This is a team that's 10th overall in the conference, still only 4 pts out of the playoffs, frankly it's miraculous that they're within 15 pts from a playoff spot right now considering the effect of these injuries. EVERYBODY around the league knows it, except the fans around here apparently"

Sure hope Clough responds and takes you up on your offer!

by Rookie14 on Feb 25, 2008 3:22 PM MST up reply actions

How can we be confused

between this years team and 95-96 team, not only did the 95-96 team had a good jersey but they also WON games, not to mention that other minor trophy, i think it's the stanley cup.

by Savage33 on Feb 26, 2008 1:17 AM MST up reply actions

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Did we just sign Peter Forsberg?

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID...

Help. My heart is having a battle with my head, leaving my consciousness a fucking warzone of trepidation and excitement.

by Brad @ Mile High Hockey on Feb 25, 2008 3:10 PM MST reply actions

omg

omg omg omg omg omg!

I heard it too!

by Mike the Avs Fan on Feb 25, 2008 3:22 PM MST up reply actions

Holy Fuck.

This is a straight cash grab by management. They have no intention of making the playoffs. This is thinly-veiled effort to sell out the building for the remainder of the regular season, and let Foppa ride off into the sunset wearing an Avs uni and not a Preds/Flyers sweater.

This was the period at the end of the sentence from management that reads "To our loyal fans (except those jerks on the intrawebs), we don't think we can make the playoffs this year, so here is your consulation prize."

by Mike @ MHH on Feb 25, 2008 3:58 PM MST up reply actions

OR

It could be a genious move by Francois Giguere and this is his way of saying; "We're the Colorado Avalanche, not the frickin Columbus Blue Jackets or Nashville Predators or Vancouver Canucks, we have problems, and we're gonna do something about them. We're playing bad, and we won't stand pat, we're doing something, and we're doing something that will put is in the playoffs". Maybe that's what it is? That's what I think it is anyway.

Will someone put up an article or something? Frick, this is like the major Avs blog and it still doesn't say anything about Forsberg returning? Which is like THE biggest story since the July 1st signing period! Post something someone!

by Mike the Avs Fan on Feb 25, 2008 4:15 PM MST up reply actions

it's on the front page at espn

w/ a link in my other post.

by andrew @ Mile High Hockey on Feb 25, 2008 4:20 PM MST up reply actions

Re: OR

It could be a genious move by Francois Giguere and this is his way of saying; "We're the Colorado Avalanche, not the frickin Columbus Blue Jackets or Nashville Predators or Vancouver Canucks, we have problems, and we're gonna do something about them. We're playing bad, and we won't stand pat, we're doing something, and we're doing something that will put is in the playoffs".

Except, how does signing a gimpy Forsberg address the problems the current roster has, namely a big shot at the point on the PP and defensive depth? It doesn't make sense to me from a hockey standpoint. I see the upside for the ticket sales, nostalgia, etc, but not the hockey reasoning...

by Mike @ MHH on Feb 26, 2008 8:37 AM MST up reply actions