The Final Word On Steve Ott
by Joe Dunman on Mar 13, 2008 7:15 AM MDT
in News
126 comments
To all the Stars fans who have said things like this:
The game replays and the video I have seen do not support a hit to the head, and it is questionable if he left his feet before the impact......is there other video out there that can show a hit to the head or more conclusive evidence?
And this:
At first glance I thought that Ott intended to injure, but when I looked again it was one of those unfortunate "he didn't do what I thought he was going to do" hits. It seemed that Ott was trying to time his hit but then missed the body and got the head. It happens. IMO Ott wasn't trying to injure.
And:
I did not see anything even resembling a dirty hit by Ott on Sunday's rematch ... Leopold is an emabbrassment [sic] when it comes to durability. He should carry a purse instead of a stick he's such a wimp!
And:
ott had him lined up, with every intention of finishing that check when he was all the way out at the faceoff dot. looked to me like he hit him with his shoulder, skates on the ice
And, finally:
Ott's hit wasn't dirty.
To all of you who, despite video and photographic evidence to the contrary, despite an injured Avalanche defenseman now suffering from concussion symptoms, and despite the ruling of an NHL administrator who made his decision after seeing several hits very similar to Ott's so far this season, still defend your favorite team's dirty player and deny the severity and illegality of the hit:
SHUT. THE F---. UP.
(Hat tip to Savage33 for finding the photo, courtesy of Taos Action Photos.)
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Duh...
It was obvious from the video that he left his feet. I don't know what the heck the Stars fans were thinking. Also, how about those two ladies to the right? Do they look completely oblivious or what?
Re: Duh...
Yeah, what the hell are they looking at? The old man behind them knows exactly what's going on---and that it probably hurts pretty bad.
Santa Claus on the left is not impressed.
i wish...
there was a separate shot shot of a little before this too, showing the elbow. :p oh well!
Completely off-topic...
..Caught this in a recap from the Florida Panther's game last night:
Karlis Skrastins’ unassisted goal midway through the third won the game for the Panthers, their fifth straight.
I had to read it three times to make sure it was correct
by Jibblescribbits on Mar 13, 2008 8:50 AM MDT reply actions
More
From Wyshanski on Deadspin:
Confession time: I'm the asshole who screams "shooooooot!" when my team is passing the puck around on the power play. So to hear that Karlis Skrastins scored the game-winner in Florida's 4-2 victory over the Islanders because a teammate told him to shoot the puck instead of dumping it to the corner warms my heart.
Gee I wonder where he learned that "dump it in the corner instead of shooting from the point" habit he is breaking.
this also begs the question... Skrastins was on the Power Play?!?
by Jibblescribbits on Mar 13, 2008 9:55 AM MDT up reply actions
Re: More
Well, it is Florida we're talking about. They traded their power play cannon (Salei) to the Avs, and had nobody to take his spot so they shoved Skrastins there. It seems to be working.
But yeah, it's amazing how many goals are scored by shooting the puck at the net. It seems complicated, I know.
Wait
Just so I get this straight.
Directing the puck towards the goal is more likely to result in a goal than putting it into the corner?
That's just crazy talk. Obviously the only way to truly increase the odds of scoring on the power-play is to sacrifice kittens.
by Jibblescribbits on Mar 13, 2008 10:06 AM MDT up reply actions
Further proof that Q must go
Seriously...the dog ass Panthers have broken down Karlis scoring on the power play...we put up with the worst PP in the league...and the Quenneville defenders can't see why he has to go? The fact that the coaching staff hasn't fixed the power play (which was terrible even before the injuries) is the biggest strike against Quenneville. (A smart person - not me - should figure out how many more goals the Avs would have scored this season had the power play been average, say 15th in the league, instead of god-awful. I'm not even saying it had to be really good, like it has been in the past, just average. Then that same smart person should try to see how having merely an average power play would have affected our total points, and if we'd still be fighting for the 8th spot if our power play didn't completely suck. Where's Bill James when you need him?)
About the whiny Dallas guy on here, I guess it was just a matter of time before other fans jumped in to the smart Avs blogs...suprised I haven't seen it before now, actually.
I guess, to be fair, the only thing I'll say about us ripping the moronic Dallas fans is that we're cherry-picking the idiots who post to the newspaper's site. Sort of like picking on fans who post to the team's official site...or Colorado fans who post to the Post or News, or the Avs' official site. Not that I personally give enough of a crap to try to find this, but I wonder if Dallas has the equivalent of the good blogs that we have? Maybe we'd get a more accurate pulse by looking for the smarter Dallas sites...again, not that I give a crap, really, and I sure as hell can't be bothered to find out.
This will all go away soon enough. We'll spank Edmonton tonight, Dallas will make a disappointing 1st- or 2nd-round exit, Tippett will get fired, Brett Hull will do some crazy shit, the Dallas Ice Girls will still be hot, and we'll have to put up with a bunch of fat guys scraping the ice at the Can.
by Dan Winkler on Mar 13, 2008 12:44 PM MDT up reply actions
Dallas Blogs
Dallas Has some good blogs out there. Andrew's Stars Page is a pretty good one, even though I have a feeling it's more of a Journalist than a classic blogger.
Regardless HLOG's Untypical Girls and The Shootout are pretty good from what I've seen
by Jibblescribbits on Mar 13, 2008 1:02 PM MDT up reply actions
Re: Further proof that Q must go
by Bob in Boulder on Mar 13, 2008 2:50 PM MDT up reply actions
Comments on the DMN
Are enough to convince me to move the Stars out of Dallas. Could any fan base really be that clueless. There are a few over there who actually see the hit for what it was, but sheesh, I don't know if I've ever seen a bigger bunch of morons.
by Bob in Boulder on Mar 13, 2008 10:11 AM MDT reply actions
I'm a stupid hockey fan
So, hockey-guru Bob, what exactly was the hit? Can you honestly compare Ott's hit that drew a 3 game suspnesion with the Randy Jones and Scott Hartnell hits that only drew 2 game suspensions? Any answer than Ott got screwed with the suspension is intellectually dishonest.
What a bunch of friggin' whiners you Avs fans are.
by brandon17 on Mar 13, 2008 10:26 AM MDT up reply actions
RE: I'm a stupid hockey fan
Yes, Avalanche fans are whiners. Definitely no whining from Dallas fans.
Well, at least you got that right
Yes, compared to what I have seen over at the DMN blogs, I, as well as most die hard Av fans I know, are hockey gurus.
I'm really not interested in comparing the Ott hit with others and their relative suspensions. Let's do what the NHL probably did and just stick with the facts of what happened on the Ott hit.
- He came at Leopold full-speed with more than two full skating strides. Charging.
- He left his feet. Charging.
- He intentionally delivered a blow to Leopolds head, at least with his shoulder, some have said initially with an elbow. Roughing.
- The puck was long gone from Leopold's stick. Interference.
- The play resulted in an injury to Leopold. 5-minute major, game misconduct.
I'm sure the league took all of this into account. Nothing, and I mean absofrickenlutely nothing, that happened on the ice the prior day to Ms. Modano or to Morrow even closely resembled that play. And it is so laughable that the memo Stars fans believe that anything did. Anyway, the league has paid lip service over the past few years to protecting guy's heads, and I'm sure they saw this play for what it was, a deliberate and very dangerous head shot at full speed, leaving his fricken feet, and against the boards (and btw, with the puck not even close to the player at the time). Initially I thought 3 games was a little harsh. In retrospect, and after seeing the replays, I think the league got it right. Do I think that other similar plays have not been punished harshly enough? Sure. But they got it right on this one. And Ott can't even be man enough to admit what he did was wrong. Not surprising, it is a good indication of his character.
by Bob in Boulder on Mar 13, 2008 10:39 AM MDT up reply actions
More of the same
Funny how you criticize Stars fans for doing EXACTLY what you are doing. Finger's hit on Morrow? You complain about Ott hitting Leopold when the puck was not near, what do you think about Finger? Kind of like the pot calling the kettle black.
Again, Ott's hit occurs every night and there are no penalties or suspensions. The complaint from Stars fans isn't that he deserved it. The complaint is that he was suspended only because Leopold was hurt. I think everyone would like to see an explanation from the NHL about why Ott drew a longer suspension than Jones and Hartnell. I don't disagree that Ott's suspension might be just right and that Jones and Hartnell got off easy, but does that make it any more fair? Not really. The NHL set the benchmark with Jones, Hartnell, et al. How would you like it if a judge handed out fines of $200 to 2 guys for doing 100 mph and then gave you a fine of $300 for doing 80 mph?
by brandon17 on Mar 13, 2008 12:20 PM MDT up reply actions
Re: More of the same
Finger's hit on Morrow? You complain about Ott hitting Leopold when the puck was not near, what do you think about Finger? Kind of like the pot calling the kettle black.
Finger's hit was clearly interference. The refs called him for it and he sat two minutes in the box. His feet never left the ice, his elbows were down, and the only reason the hit was even an issue to anyone is because Morrow happened to run into the divider between the benches. It was bad luck. Finger did his two minutes, as he should have (according to the rule book), and that was it.
When Ryan Smyth got hit by Johnson on the Blues the other night, his hit was way more severe and resulted in injuries. But nobody at this blog called for a suspension. Why? Because the hit was clean, Smyth had the puck, and it was just bad luck that he got injured.
If you'd take the time to read the previous posts and comments on this site, instead of just jumping on board to troll a single post, you would have noticed that we're pretty fair in our complaints about clean and unclean hits.
The simple fact is: Ott's hit on Leopold was illegal, was intended to hurt him, and did in fact hurt him. Colin Campbell is the man in charge of discipline and he dished out a reasonable suspension, very much in line (if not exactly the same) with previous incidents.
Write him a letter if you disagree.
As for the point of this post, it was meant to illustrate the ridiculous, unreasoning sentiment of Dallas fans who denied that Ott's hit was even dirty at all. If you're not one of them, I wasn't talking to you.
Now run along.
Gems from Q
"We’ve got to take care of our own business," Avalanche coach Joel Quenneville said. "Whoever does best within this division is going to have the best chance of winning it."
......... you sure about that Q?
by Hardshell_Taco_del_Lowayne on Mar 13, 2008 10:13 AM MDT reply actions
Sucks for you
What a bunch of whiners. Can you honestly tell me you don't see that hit every night? Leopold makes Euro soccer players look tough, and Ott pwned Salei. Salei found out karma kind of sucks when you are on the wrong end of it. Maybe he can start a list like Earl and put Modano at the top of the list.
BTW, where are the photos of the Avs illegalities during the 2 games? Oh, sorry, I forgot that Stars players are just a little bit tougher than Avs players. Imagine if Morrow had been injured by the blatant high stick from Sakic. I wonder if your pretty boy would have been suspended. Actually, I don't wonder. He wouldn't have been.
by brandon17 on Mar 13, 2008 10:19 AM MDT reply actions
Way to go brandon!
Right on cue. Did I summon a parade of morons?
by Bob in Boulder on Mar 13, 2008 10:24 AM MDT up reply actions
Re: Way to go brandon!
Let's remember that we don't toss around personal insults at MHH. We need to be courteous to our new member, even if he's just here to prove our point.
sorry net nanny
I go to the box for two minutes, feel shame, then they let me go free.
by Bob in Boulder on Mar 13, 2008 10:28 AM MDT up reply actions
Re: Sucks for you
I wondered when a Dallas diehard would take the time to join the site just to prove my point.
Much appreciated, and welcome aboard. I'm sure you'll be a big contributor to all the Avalanche game threads.
What point?
Turn about is fair play, isn't it?
by brandon17 on Mar 13, 2008 10:27 AM MDT up reply actions
Re: What point?
If you don't mind, would YOU please post the photos of the illegal hits made by the Avalanche? I can't find them, so post them yourself.
And remember, the Avs were called for actual penalties during the game---and they deserved them. Ott wasn't called for anything.
What does that tell you?
Once again, you make my point. Rivet just about killed Morrow. Go check it out on YouTube if you haven't seen it. Brutal, just brutal. He didn't get a penalty yet the NHL didn't come back and suspend him. Why? Because Morrow is tough and continued to play. Or maybe because the Stars aren't one of the NHL's glamor teams that whines all of the time. Regardless, no one in their right mind would say that Ott's hit comes close to Rivet's hit. Yet Ott gets 3 games. WHY? The NHL's inconsistencies are causing these types of hits. When Finger doesn't get a game misconduct, when Salei slew foots Modano, the refs have to stop it or the players will take matters into their own hands. Ott didn't intend to seriously hurt Leopold, but he did intend for the hit to be payback for sure.
by brandon17 on Mar 13, 2008 12:29 PM MDT up reply actions
Re: What does that tell you?
I'm still waiting for those pictures. Could you please provide video or photos of Jeff Finger leaving his feet when hitting Morrow? Or any evidence at all of Salei's supposed "slew foot" on Mike "Hard As Steel" Modano?
But let's suppose that the above incidents did occur and were worth retaliating against. Why did Ott choose to target Jordan Leopold? The guy is known to be injury-prone (we call him "Leoprone" here), and wasn't involved in any previous questionable plays. Why didn't Ott go after Salei or Finger?
Regardless of the reason, none of those above incidents were worth retaliating against because they either 1) weren't dirty, or 2) didn't happen.
Please, pictures and video.
Look for yourself
You can find them as easily as I can. Just because there isn't a nice perfect picture doesn't mean they didn't happen. Mike Heika is no Dallas Stars homer and even he is writing about that hit.
You must not have watched Ott much if you think he was singling Leoprone out for retaliation. Ott hits anything and everything, but I guarantee he finished that check because of what happened the day before and earlier in that game.
Ott isn't that great of a fighter, but he put a whoopin' on Salei which I guarantee was fueled by what happened earlier.
by brandon17 on Mar 13, 2008 12:47 PM MDT up reply actions
Inconsistencies
One one point, you are absolutely right, the inconsistencies do have a big impact on these kinds of hits. I totally agree Rivet should've been handed his arse for that hit on Ott.
However, "because the Stars aren't one of the NHL's glamor teams that whines all of the time"? hahaha, that's hilarious, have you ever listened to a Mike Modano interview? he epitomizes your statement.
And how is it that when Leopold gets hurt on Ott's "clean hit" he's just not being tough, but when Modano's shoulder/back/whatever gets injured on a phantom slewfoot, suddenly it's a different story?
Who?
Who is this Mike Modano you keep talking about? Don't worry, even Stars fans know Michelle Modano won't ever be confused with Brenden Morrow.
You know as well as I that the NHL has 2 tiers, maybe 3. Detroit and Colorado are among the teams that occupy the top tier. Dallas and Anaheim are on the 2nd tier. Florida and TB are on the 3rd. It is easy to see in the national broadcasts. How many games does Colorado and Detroit have compared to the rest of the NHL?
/rhetorical question
by brandon17 on Mar 13, 2008 12:43 PM MDT up reply actions
National Broadcasts
Ummm, I've seen maybe one or two nationally televised Avs games this year. And just about as many Stars games. Maybe a few years ago when we had Borque, Roy, Blake, still on the team we fit that category, but the Avs are hacked on just like everyone else, and I sure don't see an abundance of nationally televised games going on. They may have had a few "hockey night in canada" games, but most of us here don't see that, and it's likely because we have 3 canadian teams in our division and we play them so damned often.
Totally agree about Morrow, I think that was a great move they made making him Captian over Michelle.
Re: Who?
I'm not even sure why you even bring this up, since it has just about nothing to do with the illegality of Steve Ott's hit on Jordan Leopold, but I'll bite. I hate rhetorical questions.
On Versus:
Pittsburgh games: 8
Detroit games: 8
Rangers games: 8
Flyers games: 7
Sabres games: 7
Avalanche games: 7
Washington games: 5
Ducks games: 4
Stars games: 4
That's just a few teams. You're right that Dallas and Anaheim get less play nationally, but why is that? Maybe because they're in weaker markets with a smaller national draw? No offense, but there are more Penguins, Red Wings, Rangers, Flyers, Sabres and even Avalanche fans out there than Stars fans, and Versus knows this. They tailor their schedule to maximize advertising dollars, not to fulfill some kind of petty hierarchy dreamed up by the NHL or Colin Campbell.
Re: Who?
You are right as to the reason why Versus does what they do and there is nothing wrong with that. I'm sure the Cowboys have more national games than the Broncos for the same reason.
My point is that the NHL knows this also and if you don't think it has a bearing on their decisions, you are as big of a moron as you claim the Stars fans are.
by brandon17 on Mar 13, 2008 1:33 PM MDT up reply actions
Re: Who?
I didn't claim that Stars fans were morons. I told them to shut the fuck up. Very different.
Re: Sucks
First Welcome to the boards, even if it seems to be for trolling purposes only.
But there's so much wrong with your post that i don't know where to begin. Concussions are funny things. I've seen tough people take a seemingly mild shot to the head and get concussed, and seen vicious shots to the head where the guy was fine. they are seemingly random at times. But they are also VERY serious, and any time someone has concussion symptoms they should be careful.
And what illegalities are you talking about? Please point out Salei's "Slewfooting" that everyone references but can find no evidence of. And you want an inadvertent high stick (which I admittedly have said the refs missed) to be a suspension?
No leaving your feet is dangerous, precisely because it adds more force and gives a better chance of the shoulder hitting someone in the head. That's exactly what Ott did, and the suspension is fine. I'll admit that they probably wouldn't have suspended him had Leopold not been hurt, and I have repeatedly said they should suspend all hits like that, but that doesn't excuse his hit.
by Jibblescribbits on Mar 13, 2008 10:52 AM MDT up reply actions
You too
Thanks for making my point also. Because a player gets hurt shouldn't be the criteria for a suspension. The players actions on the ice regardless of the outcome should. The NHL and its refs turn a blind eye to that same hit every night. If a player does what a player always does and someone gets hurt, why is a suspension warranted? After all, the NHL reinforced the actions of the player by not suspending him the first time he did it.
As for concussions, good thing for Stars fans that Morrow can take a hit. Losing Morrow would have been much worse for the Stars than the Avs losing a spare. BTW, by your logic, why aren't you whining about the NHL NOT suspending Finger for an illegal hit that caused Morrow to hit his head? Is it because an Av did it? Thought so.
by brandon17 on Mar 13, 2008 12:36 PM MDT up reply actions
Re: You too
I said I agree with you, that hit should be suspended regardless of the result. That being said... Ott left his feet in a clearly illegal, and very dangerous hit, he should be suspended whether Leoprone was hurt or not, so should everyone else who makes that hit.
And I am so glad you brought up Finger's hit on Morrow, because a few weeks ago there was a similar hit on Ryan Smyth by Jack Johnson of the Kings that caused Smyth to be hurt. I, nor anyone on this site or any other Avs blog that I can find, called for Jack Johnson to be fined or suspended. It was a clean hit that took place in an unfortunate part of the ice (along the bench). Just like Finger's hit On Morrow.
Leaving feet = suspension (regardless of outcome)
Shoulder to shoulder near the bench = clean hit
by Jibblescribbits on Mar 13, 2008 12:50 PM MDT up reply actions
Re: You too
Puck 60 feet away while hitting shoulder to shoulder = dirty hit and at least according to Heika, what should be a suspension this year for causing injury during an interference penalty.
by brandon17 on Mar 13, 2008 12:59 PM MDT up reply actions
No
Because a player gets hurt shouldn't be the criteria for a suspension.
It was interference, they called it.
by Jibblescribbits on Mar 13, 2008 1:04 PM MDT up reply actions
Re: No
And the NHL has stated that interference leading to injury will be taken seriously. If Morrow hadn't returned later in that game, would the NHL have suspended Finger? Probably. That begs the question why didn't they suspend him for doing something that could have hurt a player if they would suspend him for doing it if he hurt a player?
Why is the result of the play the determining factor? Shouldn't the play be the determining factor? For example, Roy Williams continually horsecollars opponents. Even though he didn't hurt anyone, the NFL suspended him. Why does the NHL say don't do this or that, but only suspends players when they hurt someone? If you really don't want them to do it, suspend them when they don't hurt someone.
Again, the inconsistencies is what has Stars fans riled up.
by brandon17 on Mar 13, 2008 1:39 PM MDT up reply actions
Re: No
No disagreement here. I think that leaving your feet to hit another player in the head on purpose should always result in a suspension (at least one game), even if it doesn't result in injury.
But that wasn't the point of my post. I specifically cited examples of Stars fans claiming that Ott's hit wasn't dirty or that he didn't leave his feet. It was, and he did.
If you weren't one of those fans, then I'm not sure what your beef is with MHH.
Suspension
They didn't suspend him because had he done that hit any other place on the ice, Morrow would have fallen down and Star's fans would have been happy with a power play. The reason it was potentially dangerous was because he hit him near the bench. Ott's hit on Leoprone was dangerous anywhere on the ice, because he left his feet.
Finger's hit wasn't inherently dirty or dangerous, it wasn't from behind (like boarding), he didn't leave his feet, he didn't get an elbow to the head. It was a normal check, but it was interference. The Refs called it as such, it was the right call, just as the no-call on Jack Johnson's even more dangerous hit on Ryan Smyth a week or two ago was the right call.
And when you only get riled up on Star's suspensions, and not others, and then point out poor examples of things "the Avs" have done, you look like a bunch of whiners. There are MUCH better examples of players this season doing illegal/dangerous hits and not getting suspended when they should have been than Sakic's inadvertent high stick or Finger's hit on Morrow. Like this one. Pointing those out is a lot more constructive than pointing out only things that particular opponent has done.
by Jibblescribbits on Mar 13, 2008 2:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Re: Suspension
You are right that Fingers hit wasn't a dirty hit meaning it wasn't high or low or knee-on-knee. It was dirty because it was so far away from the play that Morrow was defenseless because he was not expecting to get hit. Add in the fact that Finger through an unexpected hit at the bench, and Morrow could have been seriously been hurt.
Sure there are much better examples of how the NHL is run by a bunch of douchebags, but those have no bearing on the 2 games in question. Please take your Avs colored glasses of and look at it objectively. Team A has 2 players hurt due to illegalities by Team B. Team B has 1 player hurt by an illegality by Team A. Team A has a player suspended because Team B's player received a concussion. Team B had no one suspended because Team A's players were not hurt bad enough.
How is that fair?
by brandon17 on Mar 13, 2008 3:21 PM MDT up reply actions
simple
Team A committed minor penalties with poorly executed checks, not suspension worthy plays that players know can carry a harsh penalty.
by Hardshell_Taco_del_Lowayne on Mar 13, 2008 3:44 PM MDT up reply actions
But
It was dirty because it was so far away from the play that Morrow was defenseless because he was not expecting to get hit. Add in the fact that Finger through an unexpected hit at the bench, and Morrow could have been seriously been hurt.
But that's the exact reason why interference was adopted. And you can't penalize a player more because of where on the ice he does his hit (except boarding, but that's different because boards are all around the ice.) For example if a guy gets cross-checked into a post and it breaks his nose or jaw, or a guy gets cross-checked at center ice and nothing happens it should be the same penalty. The penalty was the cross-check. Even though one is inherently more dangerous than the other.
And suspensions aren't (and shouldn't be) an eye for an eye. Each incident should be viewed objectively as a separate incident. Saying the Avs should have someone suspended, because the Stars did isn't the right way to deal with it either. That leads to the same inconsistencies that are happening now with the suspension based upon injury not the action
by Jibblescribbits on Mar 13, 2008 3:50 PM MDT up reply actions
Huh?
Where did I say that an Avs player should be suspended because a Stars player was? I said an Avs player should be suspended because an Avs player committed an act worthy of a suspension.
by brandon17 on Mar 13, 2008 4:04 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm saying ...
there isn't a sane, knowledgeable, hockey fan on the planet who isn't a Stars fan who would call the Finger hit on Morrow worthy of a suspension. Period. That is just crazy talk. You are comparing grapes to watermelons here, dude. Seriously, what Ott did to Leopold was 20 times more egregious. Not even in any remote ballpark. As we have laid out on numerous occasions. Seriously, why don't you get it? I'm about to pull out hand puppets here, but maybe I'll just give up ....
by Bob in Boulder on Mar 13, 2008 4:12 PM MDT up reply actions
Thanks for your OPINION
At least as a Stars fan, I can admit that my player did something he shouldn't have and deserved punishment. I think we can all agree that his punishment doesn't fit with the other punishments handed out.
Why can't you admit your player could have caused serious injury doing something he shouldn't have?
He should have received a major and a game misconduct for it, but the refs might have missed their rules meeting at the beginning of the season.
by brandon17 on Mar 13, 2008 4:17 PM MDT up reply actions
hey dude
your opinion is biased, I'm sure ours is too. so we need to rely on a 3rd party, like the guy in charge of suspensions, to make this decision.
Guess what? This 3rd party concluded your player's play on Leopold WAS worthy of suspension, and the by Finger one on Morrow WAS NOT.
So you're not proving anything by shitting up the place in here. In fact, all you're proving is that you're a whiner incapable of stepping back from the situation. You're certainly not convincing anyone here, since our opinion is shared by an objective, uninvested-in-the-Avs 3rd party.
If you want to spend your time complaining or trying to convince someone, may I suggest talking to the guy that actually has control over the suspensions?
I tried already
I already encouraged him to write a letter to Colin Campbell, but he never responded to me on that one.
Re: hey dude
Yeah, we know just how objective the NHL is in these matters. Randy Jones gets 2 games for darn near killing Patrice Bergeron and Ott gets 3 for dinging Leopold.
Colon Campbell isn't really receptive to others questioning his sensibilities.
by brandon17 on Mar 13, 2008 8:11 PM MDT up reply actions
fine. but bitching about it to us
gets you nowhere. we'll see you in round 2, and Ott better be ready to fight someone that, you know, can actually fight.
PS to Joe
Fire your copy editor! He/she cropped out the ice girls! And why don't we have ice girls?
by Bob in Boulder on Mar 13, 2008 10:20 AM MDT reply actions
Re: PS to Joe
I cropped out the ice girls, but I posted the link to the original photo so attentive muckrakers like yourself could still "get to the bottom of things," so to speak.
Dallas may not understand the game of hockey, but they understand hot women. I think Avs fans and Stars fans can at least find common ground on that.
true story
When I used to get NHL Center Ice, sometimes I would watch the Dallas feeds for Stars games. And sometimes, I think when they were cutting to local commercials, the NHL Center Ice feed would stay with the broadcasting crew. During those times they would pan the crowd looking for hotties (I think they called it the honey cam, not sure on that) and the announcers would make comments on them. Yes, Dallas does understand hot women. I think that knowledge is inversely proportional to their understanding of hockey, but still ....
by Bob in Boulder on Mar 13, 2008 10:48 AM MDT up reply actions
Re: true story
I bet the honey cam started at about the same time Modano started dating now-wife Willa Ford. God bless 'er.
Re: true story
Hot women
I'm sure the Avs would have ice girls and honey cam if they had hot chicks like Dallas...
by brandon17 on Mar 13, 2008 12:38 PM MDT up reply actions
Hot women
I'm sure you all had them imported, in exchange for some of the abundant hefers native to the region.
Re: Hot women
And you call us morons. At least we know how to improve the scenery. The hockey IQ of Denver vs. Dallas is arguable, but the much more important life skill of trading in hefers for hot Denver women is a much more honed skill in Dallas.
If it makes you feel any better, too many of them are freakin' Yankees that are doing their best to turn Dallas into New New York City.
by brandon17 on Mar 13, 2008 12:49 PM MDT up reply actions
No wonder TX has to import
The 10 states with the lowest obesity rates are (lowest to highest):
Colorado
Hawaii
Massachusetts
Rhode Island
Vermont
Connecticut
Montana
Arizona
Utah
Nevada
The 10 states with the highest obesity rates are (highest to lowest):
Mississippi
Alabama
West Virginia
Louisiana
Kentucky
Tennessee
Arkansas
Indiana (tie for 8th)
South Carolina (tie for 8th)
Texas
These are 2006 numbers.
Don't get me started on City rankings (ok fine, 5 of 15 fattest cities are in TX, CO has 2 cities in the top 5 fittest)
by Hardshell_Taco_del_Lowayne on Mar 13, 2008 1:33 PM MDT up reply actions
So what?
Considering Texas has about 19 million more legal citizens than Colorado, we still have more good looking women even with the obesity rate.
So, how was the obesity rate calculated? Did some dude sit around with a scratch pad at the mall saying "I would hit it" or "I wouldn't hit it"?
by brandon17 on Mar 13, 2008 1:43 PM MDT up reply actions
OK, not to beat a dead horse ...
But something really struck me as hilarious on the DMN website. On the top of their Stars hockey blog page, there is a banner ad for the Texas Credit Union. Get this ..... "Home of Modano Checking." I wonder if I can go to one of our banks here and open up a "Hlinka checking account?"
by Bob in Boulder on Mar 13, 2008 1:58 PM MDT up reply actions
Or
Arnason's Magic Ink "It disappears and reappears just like I do"
by Jibblescribbits on Mar 13, 2008 2:22 PM MDT up reply actions
^^^ lol
Leopolds Window Factory.... wait, something seems terribly wrong here.
by Hardshell_Taco_del_Lowayne on Mar 13, 2008 2:30 PM MDT up reply actions
Re: So what?
Considering Texas has about 19 million more legal citizens than Colorado
And about 19 million more illegal citizens...ZING!!
Did some dude sit around with a scratch pad at the mall saying "I would hit it" or "I wouldn't hit it"?
Oh my god I want that job. How's the pay?
Illegals
That leaves the Texas population at about 42 million. Don't worry though. When Texas is thoroughly saturated with illegals, Colorado is only a hop, skip, and jump away from Texas. What is Colorado going to do with its share of 19 million illegals?
by brandon17 on Mar 13, 2008 3:25 PM MDT up reply actions
Calculating
There isn't a special formula used by nutritionists, dieticians, or statisticians. Don't worry, it is much more simple than that. They count the number of fat rolls. Double chins count for 2x damage! ;)
by Hardshell_Taco_del_Lowayne on Mar 13, 2008 2:24 PM MDT up reply actions
This blog
I'll give you Avs fans one thing. This site is one of the better blogs I have seen. Maybe you could share the technology with DMN so they can do away with the CRAPTCHA code.
by brandon17 on Mar 13, 2008 3:27 PM MDT reply actions
Hockey lesson from a Stars moron
For those of you saying the Finger hit on Morrow wasn't dirty and that Finger could only be given a minor penalty for interference, think again. If you hockey-gurus in hockeyland would care to read the actual rules, you would find you are well, incorrect. Since obviously your Avs colored glasses prevent you from seeing the rules in the rulebook, I have pasted here for you:
56.4 Major Penalty - The Referee, at his discretion, may assess a major
penalty, based on the degree of violence, to a player or goalkeeper
guilty of interfering with an opponent (see 56.5).
56.5 Game Misconduct Penalty – When a major penalty is imposed
under this rule for a foul resulting in an injury of an opponent, a game
misconduct shall be imposed.
Finger could have, and should have, been given a major for interference. Since Morrow is tougher than your average Leopold, then I doubt Finger would have received a suspension. He deserved one, but we've argued that ad nauseum.
So, to quote Joe, Avs fans before you argue out of ignorance, S.T.F.U.
by brandon17 on Mar 13, 2008 4:12 PM MDT reply actions
I officially give up ...
hand puppets won't work on this guy. Here is one more attempt at a hint: DEGREE OF VIOLENCE probably involves things like intentional blows to the head, leaving your feet, intent to injure, things like that. Not checking a guy where there happens to be an unfortunate obstruction. Holy cow, this is ridiculous.
by Bob in Boulder on Mar 13, 2008 4:16 PM MDT up reply actions
Can you not read?
Sorry, but I guess you must have misread the rule. It states it is at the discretion of the referee. Unless I missed something it doesn't state the degree of violence is specified as intentional blows to the head, leaving your feet, intent to injure, things like that.
And sorry you are such a homer that you can't understand that checking a player into the corners of the glass at the benches unnecessarily is putting another player's health at risk.
So, by your logic, hurting someone with an illegal hit is OK if they are hurt due to an "unfortunate obstruction"? That is flat-out stupid. I bet players would love to use that argument. "I just had my hands up. I can't help it if my stick is an unfortunate obstruction between that dude's grill and where he is skating."
Awesome, Homer Bob, just awesome.
by brandon17 on Mar 13, 2008 4:37 PM MDT up reply actions
lmao
The discretion of the referee? Do you even know what that means?!? That means that if the ref thinks the hit was overly violent, he can give a misconduct. Obviously the ref thought that the hit wasn't violent enough! The Stars didn't send any tape to the NHL to try to prove to them that the refs were wrond did they? Did the NHL give any suspensions to Finger, did they?
So let's see.
The ref didn't think it was an overly-violent hit
The Stars didn't think it was an overly-violent hit (or else they would've complained)
The NHL didn't think it was an overly-violent hit (or else they would've suspended him)
So, why the hell do YOU think it was an overly violent hit? Do you really consider yourself more of an expert than the referee, the Stars organization, and the NHL?
by Mike the Avs Fan on Mar 13, 2008 4:55 PM MDT up reply actions
Re: lmao
Good one, moron. I guess everyone on this blog fancies themselves as more of an expert than the referees. Unless I am mistaken (and I know I'm not), they didn't call a penalty on Ott. Hmmm, gee, you didn't really think of that now did you. The difference is that Morrow is a man and Leopold isn't.
by brandon17 on Mar 13, 2008 7:50 PM MDT up reply actions
HOLY CRAP!
ARE YOU BLIND? I'm not even talking about Ott, I'm talking about Finger's hit!!!!!! OPEN YOUR EYES! I'M not saying I know more than the referees, YOU'RE saying that YOU know more than the referees! They didn't call a penalty on Ott that's true, but the NHL reviewed it and deemed it worthy of a suspension, which Ott deserved. The league looked at Finger's hit, and didn't give it a suspension, because it wasn't a violent hit and it wasn't worthy of a suspension! I'm speaking in ENGLISH! Do you understand what I'm saying? What part of my above post do you not understand? What part of my above post is wrong? Point it out to me and prove it.
by Mike the Avs Fan on Mar 13, 2008 8:29 PM MDT up reply actions
Re: HOLY CRAP!
By your reasoning, the refs got the Finger hit right, but they didn't get the Ott hit right. Funny how your Avs colored glasses taints your opinion of whether the refs were right or wrong.
The part that is wrong in your above post is your statement that the refs didn't think it was an overly violent hit. The refs didn't think the Ott hit was overly violent either. Which way do you want it? The refs were either right or they were wrong. Or do you want your cake and to eat it too?
Also, considering the NHL doesn't say much, how do you know they reviewed the Finger hit? The Stars aren't a club like the Avs that sends tapes to the NHL constantly whining about this or that.
by brandon17 on Mar 13, 2008 9:05 PM MDT up reply actions
RE: Don't you wish
Thanks. I'll correct it.
And really, you've said all you probably need to say. None of it has changed our minds, nor Colin Campbell's. You're wasting a lot of energy for no reason, I think.
But hey, do what you like. You've kept it remarkably clean overall, and I appreciate it.
please address
Stop arguing semantics and address the things Joe mentioned.
- Prove somehow, someway, anyway, that Finger did anything more than a normal check that happened to be interferance away from the puck. Anything showing evidence of: Charging, Leaving the Feet, Boarding, or Shlashing with intent to endanger will do. Should the NHL suspend EVERY PLAYER that has a minor penalty?
(note: Players can get hurt from clean hits also. Stop saying he could have been hurt, its hockey.)
- Avs colored glasses: When our very own Ryan Smyth got demolished on a hit worse than both of your 'grievances' combined; we Avs fans (at least here at MHH) did not go around demanding that Johnson get suspended. That indicates clarity of thought to recognize the game. Finally, I highly respect Morrow. I would love to have him on the Avs and would hate to see him hurt.
by Hardshell_Taco_del_Lowayne on Mar 13, 2008 5:02 PM MDT up reply actions
Re: please address
- Read the freakin' rule! I guess you are as reading challenged as Homer Bob. It says NOTHING about the type of infraction. It says interference that is violent. It doesn't say intentionally violent. It just says violent. The hit was illegal and it was violent. Your own Denver Post quoted Morrow as saying his legs went numb from the hit. Last time I checked it takes a pretty damn violent hit to cause someone's legs to go numb. And Morrow isn't a pansy like Leopold. Should the NHL suspend every player not penalized for a hit that injures another?
(I'm saying he could have been hurt seriously like Leopold apparently was. See my comments above about his legs going numb).
- Philippe Boucher came back from shoulder surgery, got jacked up, and separated the other shoulder. I'm not complaining about that. Injuries are common in hockey. Only morons are calling for a suspension for the guy who hit Boucher.
Hey, I enjoy physical hockey just like anyone else. Personally, I don't think Finger should be suspended and I don't think Ott should be suspended. The problem is the inconsistencies in the NHL. If they are going to live by the letter of the law with Ott, why aren't they with Finger?
Finally, you can't have Morrow.
by brandon17 on Mar 13, 2008 7:59 PM MDT up reply actions
Last post
I am not sure what you are arguing so I am done. Of course the hit was violent, every hit is. Whether Leo was hurt or not does not change that fact that Ott made a hit the NHL is claiming to crack down on. He left his feet and his shoulder connected with Leo's head. You break the law you have the chance of getting busted. Cut and dry.
You want a more violent NHL, so be it - just leave us alone.
by Hardshell_Taco_del_Lowayne on Mar 13, 2008 8:25 PM MDT up reply actions
oh wow
dude, your logic is asinine.
It doesn't say intentionally violent. It just says violent. The hit was illegal and it was violent. Your own Denver Post quoted Morrow as saying his legs went numb from the hit. Last time I checked it takes a pretty damn violent hit to cause someone's legs to go numb.
IT DOES NOT TAKE A VIOLENT, INTENTIONAL, OR DIRTY, HIT TO SERIOUSLY INJURE SOMEONE!!!
My goodness, you are unbelievable! Seriously, your reasoning is on par with saying 2 + 2 = 5.
by Mike the Avs Fan on Mar 13, 2008 8:32 PM MDT up reply actions
What?!
You are the one that is being a buffoon! Finger slammed Morrow into the corner glass by the benches. Morrow's freakin' head snapped back from the impact. Morrow's freakin' legs went numb from the freakin' whiplash. WHAT PART OF THAT ISN'T FREAKIN' VIOLENT?
When did I ever say that it takes a violent hit to seriously injure someone? Sorry you are having such a hard time getting past your homerism and seeing it for what it is.
by brandon17 on Mar 13, 2008 9:10 PM MDT up reply actions
wow
lol, you're a funny guy. And not in a good way.
WHAT PART OF THAT ISN'T FREAKIN' VIOLENT?
The part where Morrow's head hits the post between the benches. That part is violent, but it is not violent because of Finger. Do you really think he wanted Morrow's head to hit the thing between the benches? It was not violent, it was unfortunate and most importantly, its degree of violence was not enough for it to harbor a game misconduct or a suspension. The Ott hit was violent and it was illegal. You say I'm a homer? The NHL's rulings agree with me, the refs calls agree with me (on the Finger hit, they didn't throw him out or give him a major, so the degree of violence must not have been high enough, therefore it did not deserve a suspension), and even the Stars organization agrees with me (they aren't complaining). The only person who doesn't agree with me is you. Why is that? Why can't you agree with the NHL, the refs, and the Dallas Stars organization? You are looking at 2+2 and saying it equals 5. All the teachers, students, and principals are telling you that it equals 4, but you stick to your conclusion of 5.
My logic here is agreed with by the refs, the NHL, and even the Dallas Stars. How does that make me a homer? Explain.
by Mike the Avs Fan on Mar 13, 2008 10:12 PM MDT up reply actions
Re Hockey Lesson:
I wouldn't call Finger's hit violent. It was a normal average check. It wasn't excessively violent and what made it temporarily hurt Morrow was the fact that there happened to be a divider there. But the hit itself wasn't any more violent than a normal check.
by Jibblescribbits on Mar 13, 2008 5:43 PM MDT up reply actions
Hmmmmmm
It appears Steve Ott's douchery is so severe, it's actually contagious. It seems some Dallas Stars fans have come down with it as well. Interesting... is there any way we can cure these innocent people?
by Mike the Avs Fan on Mar 13, 2008 4:56 PM MDT reply actions
maybe by sending their team home in the playoffs?
i hear it's the only cure for the disease of coming to other team's blogs/boards and attempting to bludgeon them with flawed arguments!
hmmmm
Perhaps you're correct. We shall wait and see. xD
by Mike the Avs Fan on Mar 13, 2008 5:05 PM MDT up reply actions
All I ask...
is that you please not judge the rest of us Stars fans off of the Stars fans you've seen on Heika's blog. lol
And it greatly amuses me that part of the comments have developed in a conversation on what city has the hottest women.
by Jenlo on Mar 13, 2008 5:01 PM MDT reply actions
lol
Yeah I don't know how that happened. I did once read somewhere that Denver was voted like the #4 city in the US for hot singles (I think it was on yahoo) Philly came in last lol. They booed Santa Claus! :(
by Mike the Avs Fan on Mar 13, 2008 5:04 PM MDT up reply actions
Aw Santa
Well booing Santa Claus is just unforgiveable.
by Jenlo on Mar 13, 2008 5:07 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah
I'm still amazed everytime I see that clip. No wonder the Flyers have the most suspensions of any NHL team, they have to play in that city! lol
by Mike the Avs Fan on Mar 13, 2008 5:08 PM MDT up reply actions
important stuff matters!
Hawt Womens! ;)
Don't worry - we know there are level headed Stars fans. There are just alot like Brandon defending dangerous plays, just like when Forsberg was boarded by Matvichuck.
If you visit that official Avalanche boards you will see douchery Avs fans as well.
by Hardshell_Taco_del_Lowayne on Mar 13, 2008 5:05 PM MDT up reply actions
true true
about the Avs boards. Although I can't seem to pinpoint the reason of their douchery... I need to do some more research on them lol.
by Mike the Avs Fan on Mar 13, 2008 5:07 PM MDT up reply actions
ya
I'll just take your word on that lol There are awful douches at the official Stars board, which is why I never go there.
by Jenlo on Mar 13, 2008 5:08 PM MDT up reply actions
Re: all
And it greatly amuses me that part of the comments have developed in a conversation on what city has the hottest women.
To be fair, all our conversations really degenerate to some form of that
by Jibblescribbits on Mar 13, 2008 5:41 PM MDT up reply actions
CONGRATULATIONS!!
Jenlo, congrats, you are Mile High Member #100!!! And you're not even an Avalanche fan. Kudos to you.
This is insane
Dude. I've lived in Texas for nearly 9 years, and I've lived in Denver for a dozen years. I can tell you Texas has more hotter women if you're into blonde chicks with a fake rack. If you enjoy the silicon injection-laden population, then enjoy Texas. Also, have you ever BEEN to Colorado? Have any idea how many fucking Texas imports there are in Colorado? Ever wonder why 49 states hate Texas?
This leads to part my amusement of your assessment that Dallas isn't a darling of the NHL. JUST BECAUSE YOU THINK YOU'RE THE EPICENTER OF THE WORLD DOESN'T MEAN EVERYONE ELSE AGREES. If you think Colorado is an NHL darling and we get babied in terms of player suspensions and whatnot, I'll ask you why Richard Matvichuk never got suspended for his NUMEROUS runs at Forsberg? Also, get off Morrow's fucking jock. He's going to need that to play.
Also, to the guy who asked us not to judge all Dallas fans by the epic troll, I'll tell you: The vast majority of this board is comprised of logical people who have been around the intarwebz enough to know that anybody can get behind a keyboard and see their muscles grow.
To MHH, sorry if anything I've said is out of line. I'm on vacation in Atlanta (seeing the Avs win a game in person was really cool) and got all riled up. Part of it is my personal experience with Texas, especially Dallas and its citizens.
by SlamDunkTheFunk on Mar 13, 2008 6:00 PM MDT reply actions
Um..
Also, to the guy who asked us not to judge all Dallas fans by the epic troll
Gal, not guy.
by Jenlo on Mar 13, 2008 6:19 PM MDT up reply actions
epic
Epic response to Epic Thread. \m/
by Hardshell_Taco_del_Lowayne on Mar 13, 2008 6:22 PM MDT up reply actions
Re: This is insane
I love the way people incapable of forming a logical argument resort to name calling.
Quite honestly, I have never considered the other 49 states. I have heard a joke about how Texas would fall off into the ocean if it weren't for the rest of the states sucking. Sounds kind of like penis envy to me.
by brandon17 on Mar 13, 2008 8:07 PM MDT up reply actions
Wait. Where did I call you a name?
Unless you considered "troll" to be name calling, I'm pretty sure I didn't call you a name. I generalized the people of Texas, seeing as how I've had plenty of experience with them, it's not even like I'm out of line.
Also, how do you know I'm incapable of forming a logical argument? I'm pretty sure there were at least 60 comments earlier that were attempting to do just that, and you continued to shower us with "avalanche tinted glasses" without realizing how extremely biased you were being. I'd rattle of plenty of examples, but what good would that really do me?
I will give you credit. You've managed to hang around a board for a team that isn't yours ALL NIGHT without really accomplishing anything of note, except maybe powerleveling your troll rank. Congrats, dude. Everyone here thinks you're a douche and you've managed to get some random people fired up. I suppose I should hope to be just like you when I grow up.
Now accuse me of name-calling.
by SlamDunkTheFunk on Mar 14, 2008 1:07 AM MDT up reply actions
posting again to try for 100
100 post thread baby, here we come
by Hardshell_Taco_del_Lowayne on Mar 13, 2008 6:23 PM MDT reply actions
Those triple digits make it all worth it, right?
I'll be glad to help out.
by SlamDunkTheFunk on Mar 13, 2008 6:26 PM MDT up reply actions
I found it!
I've discovered the cause of the douchery in Steve Ott! It turns out he's been drinking too much doucherade:
lmao, I know it sucks, but I made it really fast using only the windows paint program. I urge one of you to make one that looks better, cause that's hilarious!
by Mike the Avs Fan on Mar 13, 2008 7:08 PM MDT reply actions
Re: I found it!
I am forever in your debt. And I'll see what I can come up with when I get some spare time.
You guys are the best.
Another kitten saved!
David Jones with his 2nd goal.
by andrew on Mar 13, 2008 9:02 PM MDT reply actions
Loved the Leopold's a pansy line
because he got a concussion. That has absolutely nothing to do with toughness, i've seen tough guys like Nate Adams, Mat Hoffman, Dave Mirra and Travis Pastrana all get knocked out and get concussions, none of those people are pansy's cause they were concussed. Concussions happen and it has very little to do with the person, it's mostly where they get hit and how hard.
Re: Loved the...
Well, you know, when the other team's guy gets hurt, it's because he's a pansy. When your team's guy gets hurt, it's because the other team plays dirty.
Just the way it works for some.
Settle this
I invite Mr. Brandon to comment on the following story:
Isn't it possible that your boy Ott got what is now the standard for elbow-shots to the head?
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