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The Rabble Rouser: An Interview With Adrian Dater

Adrian Dater, Avalanche beat writer for the Denver Post, has recently caused some minor controversy in the hockey blog world with some very candid, critical comments about Todd Bertuzzi, Dion Phaneuf and (most recently) Derek Boogaard on his blog All Things Avs.  With the  Avs and Wild ready to face off in the first round of the playoffs, I figured now would be a great time to ask Adrian a few questions about the team and his blog.

My questions are in bold, his answers in blockquotes.

Sum up the regular season.  From your perspective, what theme or incident had the biggest impact on the team's performance this year?  Considering everything, did they underachieve or overachieve?

As simple and easy as the answer seems, I think it was the trade deadline that turned things around. Forsberg obviously has been great of late, but I think the Foote and Salei additions have meant even more. After they lost Brett Clark, they were lost in their own zone for a while. They couldn't get the puck out. Now they have two guys who can do that pretty well, but now they're a lot tougher than they were with Clark, too. They had the same record as last season, so from that standpoint they did not improve from year to year. But I think they did well to overcome so many injuries and get into the playoffs and win some tough games down the stretch, so from that standpoint it was a bit of an overachievement. And yet, some guys kind of underachieved too. Ryan Smyth has been terrible of late, Arnason was not very good this year and I didn't think Clark was very good before he got hurt.

Star-divide

There were a ton of injuries this season, and knowing how the Avalanche organization likes to clamp down on any and all useful information about hurt players, was it more difficult to cover the team this year than in the past?

It's always tough. As I said in my blog, I'm not asking for a detailed x-ray chart and a sit-down with the team doctor about every injury. But it definitely gets my red-headed temper going when I think they're either lying or trying to cover up and injury, and it makes me go after the next injury story that much harder and make life as difficult as I can for them over there. I just don't always buy their explanation that "it's going to give away secret stuff to the opposition." The other team always knows what the injury is. They spend hours going over tape and have moles in certain areas usually, so that doesn't wash.

Now that most of the lineup seems healthy and playing well together, what's your impression of team morale going into the first series against Minnesota?

I think it's pretty good. Everybody feels a lot better about the defense, and the power play is getting better. That said, I think everyone is worried about how their third line, or whatever you want to call their checking line, stacks up against Minnesota's, and everybody's always on pins and needles about Forsberg's health.  Theodore has earned a lot of confidence and respect, too, but I think he still needs to prove himself more to some guys before they have that real confidence from them, as a true playoff goalie.

Coach Q.  In your opinion, what scenario would have to play out for him to keep his job as Avalanche coach?  If the Avs tank in the first round, is he gone, or does it matter?  Is Francois Giguere probably waiting to see how the playoffs pan out?

It's a good question, but I think Q got himself another year, at least, by getting into the playoffs with an injury-ravaged team. A sweep won't be good and might change Giguere's mind, but I think he's going to give Q another shot.

The last time I interviewed you, you used some clichés about bloggers typing in their underwear from their mothers' basements and such.  Guys like Bob Costas and a slew of other journalists have continued to use similar language in the past couple of months to belittle an increasingly popular medium.  Over the course of this season, has your impression of sports bloggers changed at all?

I guess that has become a cliche, the whole underwear thing. The fact is, hell, I write half my columns and blogs in my underwear too! So don't take that as such an insult, bloggers. I have no problem with people pouring out their souls all day long on their own blogs and opining on me or the Avs or the new Beck album or the service at the 7-11 or whatever. I don't take too much personally that anybody writes about me, and if we old world media types take some shots back at bloggers, then they should take that in the spirit of fair game, and maybe even a compliment. One blog, Kukla's Corner, had someone take a shot at me over my name and spelled it the female version, and I fired something back, but I did it in a mostly tongue-in-cheek manner. There are some real good blogs out there, including on the Avs, and yes I check them out sometimes. This is a good one, and I like the guy who does In The Cheap Seats. I had no idea who the dude was, and sent him a note saying he had a good blog. Well, miracle of all miracles, it turned out the guy lives in Keene, N.H. That's where I grew up as a young kid and went to college! I couldn't believe it.  

Overall, my attitude on bloggers getting credentials to games and things like that is still a bit old world, though. I think, unless you're shelling out the bucks to get on the airplanes and stay in the hotels and spend the hours at the rental car desk bickering over the size of your Pontiac Grand Am and getting lost in East L.A. after a Kings game - as I once did - then you shouldn't just be able to get a credential to home games only, too, and call yourself a "sports writer." You have to do the work, so to speak. You have to put in the hours. If a guy wants to make that kind of investment and cover a team the right way, then I don't think you should get the same treatment as those who do.

For the record, the blog that took a shot at you is actually called Abel To Yzerman, a Red Wings blog that is part of the larger Kukla's Corner network.  Paul Kukla blogs for NHL.com in addition to running his very popular personal blogging network, but the guy who writes A2Y is named Bill Houlihan, a sailor with the US Navy.

At any rate, that little exchange probably did more to stoke the rivalry fires between the Avs and Wings than anything in the past couple of years.  In Blood Feud you quoted guys like Paige and Kiszla heavily to convey the fact that columnists can play a big role in team rivalries.  Do you feel comfortable playing an active role like that yourself or is it just a side-effect of the job?

Well, I don't know that anything I really say or write plays an "active role" in anything to do with the actual rivalry between the teams. Sure, it gets some fans riled up, but to me that's fun! I hate reading stuffy, boring sports writers who take everything so damn seriously about the GAME they're covering. Jesus, you read some writers, and you think you've just read the minutes from a city council meeting, not a game between competitive athletes, with trash-talking fans from both sides.

I like mixing it up with the fans once in a while. The misconception a lot of people make about me is that I'm really wrapped up in the outcome of the game, that I'm part of the Avalanche and really want them to win.  You know what I usually do when I'm home? I'm usually reading the New Yorker or watching something on the History Channel. But when it's time for the game, I like to have a little FUN, and if that means writing like a fan sometimes, then so be it. I think anybody who's read me seriously over the years know that I still treat the profession seriously as a job and I'm not in the press box cheering or anything, and usually write in a more sober-minded way in the actual paper. But with the blog thing, yeah, let's mix it up a little. At least I know you're out there. And I'm very opinionated and always will be, so occasionally you're going to bump heads with people who disagree.

Speaking of blogs, your own online opinion outlet, All Things Avs, has caused a few stirs and ruffled a few feathers this year.  What do you seek to accomplish with it?  Do you have any specific goals for the site?  How much leeway do your bosses give you?

Well, I've had a couple of blogs taken down by the bosses, including a notorious one about ESPN last year. I had no idea anybody would care what I wrote on a blog about some topic like that, but it made some news in a hurry. My overall point in that manifesto was that I didn't like a lot of the ways ESPN has changed the world of sports and journalism, and that they rip an awful lot of us print guys off, and on and on. But I named a few names, and I regretted that and apologized to them "personally." At that late hour I was writing, I just named some of the first names off the top of my head at ESPN. So that was pretty dumb of me. I actually liked the people I ripped! I mean, I used to work with Rachel Nichols, back when she was named Rachel Alexander, when she covered hockey at the Washington Post. And there I go ripping her. Why did I do that? I guess I learned that you better be careful when you click "publish" on those blogs. I also ripped Bill Simmons, and I had just finished his Red Sox book and loved it. He's a damn good writer and very funny. So, lesson learned on that one in a lot of ways. It was late, I was super cranky and had a keyboard at my disposal. Stuff like that can happen.

Another blog was taken down when I went on a little riff about the bad late-night TV I was watching. But I also mentioned what I was eating and drinking at that moment, which was shrimp and a gin and tonic, after a game. I think the suits got a little over-sensitive about that one and I disagreed about them taking it down, but oh well. I mean, yes, I have a drink sometimes after a game. Last I checked, that isn't against the law, unless you've had 10 or 15 and are behind the wheel. I was at home, and stopped at one.  I just call it as I see it, though. I'm that kind of writer. I try to be really open about myself, too. Some people hate that, but they don't have to read the blog then.

So far you've loudly and unabashedly dissed guys like Dion Phaneuf, Kris Draper and now Derek Boogard in your blog, simultaneously pissing off Flames, Red Wings and Wild fans.  It's been suggested that you're just trying to boost traffic at the Post web site and/or sell a few more copies of your books.  What's the truth?  Why all the venom?

Well, of course we're all trying to boost traffic. Why do a blog and put it out there, right? But I'm not trying to just rip guys as a stunt to get attention. I believed what I wrote about Phaneuf at that moment, although I backed off calling him a punk. Probably not the best word, but as I said, I grew up calling everybody a punk, and everybody calling me a punk. It was a term of endearment to my generation. I also wrote that I'd probably want Phaneuf on my team if I was a coach, but none of the angry Flames fans seem to want to remember that. Boogaard? He's almost too easy of a target, so I kept it brief.

Sometimes I drop a mention of my books in the blog, but I don't do that nearly as much as some guys in my profession do, and I usually try to keep a mention in the context of the thing I'm writing about - not just some gratuitous plug. The bottom line with me is, I'm a guy who grew up a cynical, rabid, passionate Boston sports fan, and that's just how guys like us are like a lot in print. I don't want to compare myself to Bill Simmons at all as a writer or person or anything, but that smart-aleck kind of thing he's got going on is something I've certainly been accused of myself. And there are a TON of guys from back there, like we are, who are just like that when it comes to our sports and commentary, etc. It's just how you're born there. I mean, you have no idea how bad I would sit in front of my little 12-channel, black-and-white TV growing up in New Hampshire and just cursing the Red Sox up and down over a loss, or Steve Grogan over a big interception or whatever.

Has your criticism of specific guys on your blog impacted how other teams and players react to you in person?

No, not yet. But I imagine somebody from Calgary will mention my Phaneuf blog at some point when I'm up there next. No big deal. It's all in fun. They can call me any name in the book and I won't care. I can take it. I dish it out, so I have to take it.

Finally, were Foote and Forsberg worth the money/draft picks/stress?  The team has played better with them in the lineup, but are they too much baggage overall?

You just know Foppa will miss a game at some point. But overall, it's great to have him around again, and Foote will be around a while I think. I don't see any negatives having them back. It was a great thing for the team and fans.

Thanks to Adrian for entertaining my questions, and for being such a lightning rod this season.  Following the Avalanche this year has been a lot of fun if nothing else, and---love it or hate it---Dater's writing has been a big part of that.

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Excellent interview

That's a great read.  Adrian is right about his critisims of ESPN.com and other big sports websites.  They are constantly grabing stories from local markets and keeping the traffic.  It's proving to be a huge problem and one that will grow until a local paper somewhere brings them to task.  For example, the Denver Post pays AD to go to Vancouver.  They put him up in a hotel, he's away from his family and working hard to let us know that at the morning skate he learns that Forsberg is out with a groin injury.  What does ESPN do?  They put a front page headline on their hockey page and reference the Denver Post in paragraph three.  They don't hyperlink and they don't attribute the information to the reporter that broke the story.  They are a total parasite and it will all come to a head one day because papers will get more reliant on web traffic-based income.

Anyway, I think AD is right about credentials as well.  One thing I don't think a lot of old media guys appreciate is that most bloggers don't really want press credentials.  At least I wouldn't.  They are unabashed fans of the teams they cover.  They buy their own tickets and sit in the stands cheering and wearing an Avalanche Unipron.  I do think that there are opportunities for bloggers to interview or gain access to players.  But I think that's a case by case issue.  I know that Jean Martineau is open to player access for prospects and I would suspect he would be open to the idea for the NHL club also.  Five years ago at rookie camp I got a lot of strange looks from Jean and his assistant at the time when I wanted access to the rookies for Hockey's Future.  Mainly because they hadn't heard of it and I was wearing a Foote jersey.  They were quite sure what to make of it.  AD brings up an interesting point on the travel and all that but I'm not sure it's that black and white.  One thing I do know is that no self respecting Avs blogger wants to attend and avalanche game in a tie while sitting on their hands.  If it ever happens that bloggers get a pass, I suspect AD and co. will want that first class curtain drawn between them and us homers.  Maybe bloggers could sit with the Altitude broadcast team and fit right in?

by Dario on Apr 8, 2008 9:21 AM MDT reply actions  

Re: Excellent interview

If there is one thing that Dater said that I disagree with, it's about what it takes to "earn" press credentials.  He says the guys who should get access are the ones shelling out the bucks to travel and follow the team.  But it's not like that money comes from his pockets.  

You wrote:

For example, the Denver Post pays AD to go to Vancouver.  They put him up in a hotel, he's away from his family and working hard to let us know that at the morning skate he learns that Forsberg is out with a groin injury.

Exactly.  Dater is definitely doing tiring, strenuous work at times, but he's not the one footing the bill.  His employer is paying the money.  So putting the onus on individual bloggers, most of whom get no income from their blogging, to chase a team all over the continent seems a bit unrealistic.

All that said, no matter who pays for it, I'm pretty sure most bloggers (including myself) aren't chasing press passes and want nothing more than to see their team in person a few times a season.

by Joe Dunman on Apr 8, 2008 10:02 AM MDT up reply actions  

awesome!

kudos to you, Joe, for getting this together and asking good questions.

even more kudos to Adrian for being classy enough to give back to his readers a bit, and being honest in his answers!  I do think you'll get a bit more grief from the flames than them "mentioning" your rant though.  :)

by thedoctor on Apr 8, 2008 9:23 AM MDT reply actions  

Keene, NH

I went to NH for the first time last summer. I had married into extended family from the area. It is a great place! We went a place called Pilgrim Pines outside Keene, on Lake Swanzy, then climbed Mount Monadnock and it was rad! Manadnock is a great hike but at only 3k feet above sea level it was not as demanding as hikes we do here in CO. We were passing locals like crazy. :D

Never trust the lunch lady.

by Hardshell_Taco_del_Lowayne on Apr 8, 2008 9:52 AM MDT up reply actions  

kudos and thanks

kudos, Joe, on a great interview.

and thanks to Adrian for the shout out.

by David Driscoll-Carignan on Apr 8, 2008 10:14 AM MDT reply actions  

Very cool

Thanks Joe for the interview and also thanks to Adrian for taking the time to answer the questions. I'll give him credit for being a stand-up guy.

One question I would loved to have seen is why there's not much space for hockey coverage in the Post, especially compared to the Rockies. Why don't they shell out to give us the expanded box scores, the ones they use in the playoffs (or at least in past post-seasons)? Why aren't there more notes, more features, more updates on the minor leaguers, more "where are they now" stuff? I know that's not Dater's call to make, but I'm curious to hear if he think he should get more space in the paper, and if so, what would he like to do with it?

by Dan Winkler on Apr 8, 2008 11:17 AM MDT reply actions  

Amen to that question

I have asked Terry Frei that question in emails over the years and he basically gives me the standard "we cover what our readers and advertisers drive us to cover" and "our hockey coverage is better than most major papers in the country" spin.  But I open up the paper this morning, one day before the NHL playoffs are about to begin WITH our Avs in them, and I see 1/2 page of hockey coverage, more than 2 full pages of baseball.  And I have yet to see ANY fan poll where the Rockies come out ahead of the Avs in this market, nor do local TV ratings indicate anything other than the Avs being immensely more popular.  I just don't get it.

The Post is going to run a special NHL playoff preview section tomorrow, however.  So at least there is that.

by Bob in Boulder on Apr 8, 2008 11:32 AM MDT up reply actions  

I dunno

I think Frei's answer covers it pretty well. Hockey is way down there on the popularity list. Don't blame the newspapers for that - blame the eggheads running the sport into the ground.

by David Driscoll-Carignan on Apr 8, 2008 12:19 PM MDT up reply actions  

Re: Amen to that...

Well, it is the United States, and the Rockies did make it to the World Series, so their favor over the Avs doesn't seem all that outlandish, fan polls aside.  I'd argue that most people in Denver, strong hockey market that it may be, probably have more interest in baseball and football.  Those two sports are higher profile in general, even if the Rockies and Broncos maybe don't deserve all the attention.

And remember, newspaper content is driven by ad sales, so if advertisers sense that the paper is focusing too much on sports people "don't care about," they'll be less likely to run ads.  Baseball and football (and to a lesser extent basketball), in the US, are sure bets.

by Joe Dunman on Apr 8, 2008 12:27 PM MDT up reply actions  

Maybe

I don't know before I moved away from Denver, IT was Broncos, then Avs. There was a point a few years ago when the Rapids (MLS baby) were drawing more per game than the Rockies. They just weren't that popular.

Obviously the World Series appearance changed all that, but I have a hard time believing the Avs were surpassed in lcal popularity based on 6-8 good weeks.

by Jibblescribbits on Apr 8, 2008 1:09 PM MDT up reply actions  

Avs NOT more popular than the Rockies

The Avs have never been more popular than the Rockies, sorry. And JS, I'd love to see the year you're talking about when the Rapids outdrew the Rockies - it didn't happen. Even in their nadir, the Rox were drawing around 20K/night, never below 15K. The Rapids never did that, despite the annual sold-out fireworks game.

Baseball is more popular than hockey in Denver, and in most US cities. I get that. But I just think the hockey coverage in the papers is really, really sub-par. It just seems to me - no evidence, no investigation - that the coverage in other similar cities is better than it is here. "Similar" means hockey is 3rd or 4th out of the Big Four sports, but their teams have enjoyed some success. Dallas, perhaps? St. Louis? Philly? Plus, this is one of the few cities this size left in the country with 2 papers. Wouldn't that fuel competition? I know they're under the same basic ownership, but there's still a lot of competition on other beats, and there's definitely rivalries among the sports writers, so why doesn't that seem to happen on the Avs beat?

Easiest fucking job in the Denver MSM has to be Avs beat writer for the RMN. Talk about low output and low expectations.

by Dan Winkler on Apr 8, 2008 3:40 PM MDT up reply actions  

Average attendances

Here you go, I wasn't even close with my 15K guess.

Rox:
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/team...

Rapids:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorad...

Many, many, many more people see the Rockies every year in person than the Avs. I think that's a more important number than fan polls and TV ratings in determining popularity.

by Dan Winkler on Apr 8, 2008 3:48 PM MDT up reply actions  

Well

I agree the Rapids were never more popular than the Rockies, a bit of hyperbole there on my part.

But the fact is for many years the Avs were more popular than the Rox, and they still were right up until I left in '06. (And yes the Attendance doesn't show it, but the Avs can only seat 18K/game so we'll never know what average attendance COULD have been). But in local buzz I always felt that the only thing keeping the Rockies afloat was a local media full of baseball scribes.

Paige and Kiszla would write story after story about the Rox, but when I went out, to bars, and social settings, I heard many more people talk about the Avs and Nuggets than the Rox. The only people I ever heard talk about the Rockies were my in-laws, and one frined of mine.

Not that it matters at all. The whole "How popular is this sport" debate is kind of silly anyways (not just from us, but all the time). As long as it's popular enough that the franchise stays in town who cares.

Especially these days when the lack of major media coverage can be made up for in the form of well-written blogs and national online media

by Jibblescribbits on Apr 8, 2008 5:03 PM MDT up reply actions  

Doesn't matter

Baseball is at best a relaxing afternoon at the park, and a giant snoozer on TV. Hockey is exciting to watch.

There I said it.

Never trust the lunch lady.

by Hardshell_Taco_del_Lowayne on Apr 9, 2008 7:35 AM MDT up reply actions  

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