Let's Make A List

I have work to do (but obviously this will be getting my time)

damn now the wife will be on my case because the deck won’t get finished….

Well better get this started.

Quick question: I understand the guidelines, but should the criteria be, 1) best player based on their entire NHL career to wear an Av sweater, or 2) best player based on their career while with the Avs?

So, for example, if the answer is 1) Bourque would be rated very high.

tougher than I thought after 10 or so. these ratings are based on their best season when 2 players were close, thus why Bourque is a touch lower than based on his whole career, for example.

1. Forsberg (made everyone he ever played with better, and had the best year in an Avs uniform too)
2. Sakic (one of the best ever and most consistent over his career. don’t leave!)
3. Roy (the most shocking part of watching old Avs games is how good he was compared to what we have now)
4. Bourque (finesse all the way, yet an incredible defender. his lead passes could just leave your mouth hanging open)
5. Foote (warrior type that meant so much for the finesse oriented cup teams)
6. Blake (an absolute stud, with a perfectly rounded game. i miss the butt checks)
7. Hejduk (a classic speedy sniper, but has underrated passing skills and great defensive ability)
8. Deadmarsh (had a couple great years, and played such a solid physical game even with his skill)
9. Drury (clutch, great 2 way player)
10. Tanguay (never had the flash the others did, but the best playmaking winger on the list)
11. Stastny (already has that special way of making players around him better like only forsberg has)
12. Lemieux (dirty, but a plain winner, best agitator maybe ever, and surprisingly skilled)
13. Kamensky (best backhand shot the Avs have ever had)
14. Keane (3 perfect 3rd line centers that really meant more to the ‘90s success than we probably guessed)
15. Ricci
16. Yelle
17. Young (tough to say Yelle or Keane was really better than him, but they were more valuable than he was)
18. Simon (we missed out on a cup or 2 from 97-99 because we traded him—teams just beat on us without him. best enforcer the Avs ever had, and he was surprisingly skilled)
19. Hinote (the perfect 4th liner)

it’s difficult because you have to start balancing pure skill vs. value to their respective teams. No one’s saying Dan Hinote is even close to Scott Young in terms of skill, but Hinote was invaluable as a PKer and agitator to multiple teams in a way Scott Young never was. whatever.

1. Sakic
2. Roy
3. Forsberg
4. Foote – Anchored very underrated and solid defense throughout
5. Hejduk – 10 years (9 seasons) with the team and a perpetual 30 goal scorer in the dead puck era
6. Blake – Future HoFer only had 4 full seasons with the Avs. They were 4 great seasons though
7. Deadmarsh – The guy was just a hockey player
8. Tanguay – 5 very solid seasons
9. Drury – 4 very solid seasons
10. Yelle – anchored the PK for 7 seasons, Guite has finally adequately replaced him
11. Ozolinch – 5 very solid seasons from the defenseman
12. Gusarov – Underrated defenseman
13 Lemieux – started the greatest rivalry
14 Kamensky – Underrated forward for the Avs
15. Borque – Yes he was great, but docked for only being here a season and change
16. Stastny (son of) And rising quickly
17 Lappy – Heart and Soul of the lean years here.
18 Klemm – Jack of all trades got the job done for longer than most remember
19 Keane – Great leader and PKer

Honorable Mention: Ricci, Hinote, De Vries, LeFebvre, Theo, Miller and Brunette

Like Doc, it was very easy at first there are a few guys that are without question on that list, those last 6 or 7 is where it gets tough, we had some young guys that have gone on to play well else where or good players that have come in and played a season or two with us.

1 Joe Sakic – C – The face off this franchise since the move to Denver. You can’t talk abou the Avs without talking about it’s Captain. Not to mention all the stats and honors he has thus far accumulated
#2 St. Patrick – G – By far one of the best goaltenders is the history of the sports (if not the best – I may be baised).
#3 Forsberg – LW/C – One of the greatest playing abilities in the game, if not for the injuries the last few years, who knows where he could be among the greats. Has that ability to make every one on the ice around him play at a higher level.
#4 Adam Foote – D – another key face in the franchise’s history, many fans did not realize his importance until his absence the past couple of seasons.
#5 Chris Drury – C – “Mr. Clutch” Outside of Joe Sakic, he maybe one of the best draft picks of this franchise. Most fans dread the day he was traded and still discuss the horror of it all.
#6 Milan Hejduk – RW – May have benefited from having played with Forsberg so many years – Still a solid player and a valued sniper, just don’t ask him to lead.
#7 Valeri Kamensky – LW – 289 gms 106g 155a 261pts – Playoffs: 48 gms 21g 29a 50pts Very underrated player.
#8 Ray Bourque – D – Though Bourque finally won a cup with the Avalanche, most people will remember him as a Bruin. Though he is loved by Avs fans, he is still a Bruin at heart, so much so that many Bruins adopted the Avs during that amazing cup run and Bourque rewarded them by taking the cup to Boston.
#9 Claude Lemieux – RW – 297 gms 106g 106a 212pts 381pim – Playoffs: 62gms 24g 31 a 55pts – one of the greatest agitators to play the game.
#10 Adam Deadmarsh – RW – While he may not have the best numbers, he was always a solid, gritty guy.
#11 Alex Tanguay – LW – 450gms 137g 263a 400pts Playoffs: 83gms 18g 32a 50pts
#12 Rob Blake – D – One of the most brutal hip checks in the game before the lock out.
#13 Sandis Ozolinsh – D – 333gms 72g 81a 153pts Playoffs: 82gms 18g 47a 65 pts
#14 Andrew Brunette – LW – Most remembered for ending Roy’s career, he has been a solid presence in the line up since arriving in Denver in more ways than one. Brunette has not missed a game is his three seasons with the Avs.
#15 Paul Stastny – C – Already making his presence know in the league and continuing the family legacy. He should very quickly move up this list…
#16 Mike Ricci – C – 131gms 19g 44a 63pts Playoffs:39gms 8g 15ga 23pts
#17 Stephane Yelle – C – A solid contributor during his seven seasons in the Burgundy and Blue.
#18 Alexi Gusarov – D – And solid, underrated d-man
#19 Dan Hinote – RW – Like Yelle, Hinote was a dependable 3rd/4th line grinder that performed well when needed to.

HM: Keane
Young – saw little praise in his time, but was a solid defense-man
Lappy – Could easily move up this list due to his current importance on this team.
Wolski – has been in Stastny’s shadow during the two full season he’s been in the line up, but if his game continues to improve and with the right opportunities he can be very valuable to this team.
Guite – Replaced Yelle and Hinote, could have a very good run with this team.
Theodore – While not the replacement to Roy that many hoped…if he remains in Denver and continues this season performance…who knows.
Svatos – Has the sniper touch but has to find a way to stay off the injury list if he wants to have a long career.

1. Sakic
2. Roy
3. Forsberg
4. Foote
5. Bourque (winning cup = extra points).
6. Tangauy (vital player on AMP line in cup year. Plus..game THE game 7)
7. Kumensky (key piece of 1st cup)
8. Hejduk
9. Lemieux (1st cup key)
10. Drury
11. Deadmarsh
12. Blake
13. Ozo
14. Keane
15. Gusarov
16. Yelle
17. Young
18. Stastny
19. ??

Avs acquire Sertich from Stars for a conditional 7th rounder: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=523397

Healey is either moving on, or Hensick is moving up permanently. seems like a decent depth move.

OK, first I’ll say that I based it on overall value to the team, so longevity is a factor. Obviously Bourque is one of the greats to ever play the game, but his role in Av history is less. Hejduk gets a big boost by this as well.

1. Sakic – As much of a Foppa lover that I am, and as great as Roy was, he is the face of the franchise. Period.
2. Roy – The Avs don’t win the Cup in 2001 with anyone but Roy in net in game 6 in Jersey. Best ever, imo.
3. Forsberg – More entertaining than Sakic. At times more amazing. Injuries be damned!
4. Hejduk – 2nd most goals as an Av, 3rd most assists. As maddeningly inconsistent as he seems to be during any particular season, from year to year, he has produced.
5. Foote – I didn’t realize how bad our D was this past season until Foote’s first game back.
6. Blake – Do the Avs win the cup in 2001 without him? I doubt it, even with the Messiah.
7. Deadmarsh – Even stayed a RW killer with the Kings. Heavy weight heart and attitude in a middle weight body.
8. Kamensky – On my favorite all-time line with Foppa and Claude. Absolutely dominant when they were together.
9. Lemieux – In addition to being the royal PIA that he was, scored big-time goals and played a hard-nosed game.
10. Ozolinsh – Great chemisty with that first cup team. The wandering Latvian was as gifted offensively as anyone ever on the Av blueline.
11. Bourque – Only with the Avs for a cup of tea. A Stanley Cup of tea. Contributed to that cup, wasn’t just along for the ride.
12. Tanguay – Also a big-time contributor to the cup in 2001. AMP line my 2nd favorite Av line ever.
13. Drury – What, Mr. “clutch is everything” way down here? Yep. As much as I liked Drury, and as much as he did come through in the clutch, I always thought he was a little overrated. Not Drury for Morris overrated, that trade still sucked, big time.
14. Yelle – One of the best PKers and faceoff guys in the league. Scotty Bowman once called him the Avs’ most important player. Please don’t tell me he was also part of the Drury trade …. he was ….. wtf was PL smoking????
15. Stastny – Amazing how fast he has become what he has become. Barring you know whats that plagued the team all this past season, he will rocket up this list.
16. Brunette – Why doesn’t this guy get more love? All he does is score big goals and contribute. Pretty damn consistently.
17. Svatos – One of the best pure goal scorers ever to wear the glacial A. And plays with a bit of an edge.
18. JM Liles – I hope they hang on to JML. Can be an offensive weapon, and improved on the D end a lot this past season.
19. Ricci – Part of the super deep and talented ‘96 forward core. Not bad for a 3rd line center. Good agitator and had decent skill.

Here is the girlie list. My list is mostly based on fond memories of players I love to watch because they amaze me and I’m just sure the numbers are there or have already been stated in previous posts.

1. Forsberg – what needs to be said? He da man.
2. Roy – I still wear his jersey although, I have to change it sometime. He retired how many years ago?
3. Sakic – Oh Captain, my captain.
4. Foote – The Big D.
5. Lappy – Greatest nose in hockey, I always say. I also love watching him celebrate after scoring a goal, so bring it next year, Mr.
6. Liles – Up and down seasons aside, not to mention his jitters this year with the trade deadline, he brings it almost every night.
7. Kamensky – For all the reasons already stated. Very underrated but so much fun to watch.
8. Ozolinsh – Fun to watch and the first hat trick I remember seeing.
9. Deadmarsh – I cried when he cried when he retired. He was an awesome player taken out of the game too soon.
10. Drury – Why the hell was he traded?
11. Hejduk – I used to like him a lot more… If there was one thing this season that explained his play over the last few, it’s that Hejduk is only great with Forsberg at his side.
12. Hinote – Meshed well with the Avs and is now an Avs killer.
13. Budaj – The Kid has heart and the passion to win. I just wish Q would have let him start all season.
14. Yelle – A mainstay on the team for several years and a solid player.
15. I’m out of players. It really is difficult to think of 19.

But, I’m a girl… What do you expect.

/wink

For me this is quite an interesting read. I myself don’t feel am able to conjure up a list yet, but I see most people choose Hejduk over Tanguay and Foote over Blake.

I think these 1 on 1 comparisons could actually grealty improve the discussion about top 19 players.

so i’m just going to list the players i ‘ve either seen or read that played well over the years.
Roy
Sakic
Forsberg
Foote
Blake
Tanguay
Hejduk
Lemieux
Deadmarsh
Budaj
Stastny
They’re in no particular order, except the top three.

1) Forsberg
2) Sakic
3) Roy
4) Foote
5) Hejduk
6) Blake
7) Tanguay
8) Drury
9) Deadmarsh
10) Lemieux
11) Borque
12) Ozolinsh
13) Yelle
14) Laperriere
15) Stastny (hopefully he’ll move up to the top of the list eventually)
16) Kamensky
17) Young
18) Brunette
19) Svatos/ Ricci (I cant decide who to put here. I think if Svatos can stay healthy he’ll push Ricci off next years list.)
I was 5 when they won the first cup, so I’m just going off memory of the names, for the players from that period. I might be missing some key guys from then.

OK, so this isn’t exactly what most people have done, but I thought about 19 players a 1 goalie, 6 defensemen, and 12 forwards. And I put serious weight into fondness for a few particular players, especially towards the bottom of the list. And also, there’s no way I can rate these guys 1-19, with the exception that Sakic is the clear #1, followed in my mind by Roy and Forsberg. After that…

GOALIE
1. Roy

DEFENSE
1. Foote
2. Blake
3. Bourque
4. Ozo
5. Jon Klemm
6. DeVries

FORWARD
1. Sakic
2. Forsberg
3. Kamensky
4. Lemieux
5. Drury
6. Deadmarsh
7. Stastny
8. Hejduk
9. Yelle
10. Tanguay
11. Podein
12. Jeff Odgers

OK, the Odgers pick you can certainly argue with, Ricci/Keane/Hinote/Lappy might have been more approriate (and sane). But Odgers always stuck up for his teammates, and I’ll never forget seeing him in a box at Game 7 in 2001 against the Devils. He hadn’t been on the team that season, he was a Thrasher in 00-01, but still cared enough to come back as a fan.

Never embraced Yelle, but you can’t argue with his years of service in Colorado. Klemm gets the nod because he was solid and versatile. Really liked Scott Young, but he only had 2 seasons in Colorado. Gusarov could certainly have been in my top 6 defensemen, but that means I would have had to consider Sylvain Lefebvre, too, and I just couldn’t bring myself to do that.

By the way, Joe, if you ever do a Worst 19, Brad May will be right up at there at the top of my list.

1. Roy – Cup in ’96 never happens without him, vocal leader, HOF-er, best all-time at his position.
2. Sakic – Face of the franchise, leader by example, climbing all-time lists in various categories, HOF-er.
3. Forsberg – Would be #1 if not for the two guys in front of him. Injuries at the tail end of his stay(s) hurt his career numbers a tad and missing him during Cup runs didn’t seem to derail anything, HOF-er, so yeah…
4. Hejduk – Rocket Richard winner, HUGE part of the ’01 cup team, still contributing at a high level.
5. Blake – Was an Av during the most dominant portion of his career, put the Avs over the top in ’01, strangely an effective PP contributor even though he couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn.
6. Ozolinsh – Prototypical offensive defensemen, integral part of ‘96 cup team (great playoffs that year), later traded for what amounted to a bag of pucks.
7. Drury – Calder winner, Cup winner, heir-apparent to the ‘C’ for a long time, clutch player, I cried when he and Yelle were traded.
8. Kamensky – Jeebus, look at his numbers in ‘96, why isn’t he talked about more? I think there wasn’t enough pucks to go around toward the tail end of his stay and his numbers took a hit.
9. Tanguay – Potent out of the gate, another unstoppable force on the dominant ’01 team.
10. Foote – The preeminent shut-down defensemen of those dominant 90’s teams, unquestionable leadership.
11. Bourque – Short stay, huge impact, you can’t overlook his drive to win the Cup in ’01 and his leadership.
12. Deadmarsh – One of my personal favorite players, complete player, consistent contributor, he was the jewel they sent the other way for Blake.
13. Stastny – Big impact in two years, new face of the franchise, he’s the nitro boost in the current offense, fun to watch.
14. Yelle – Mr. Consistency. Always know what you got with him, integral to both Cup teams.
15. Lemieux – The spark of the great rivalry with the Red Wings, HUGE season in ’96, solid contributor for his entire stay.
16. Klemm – Another important cog in both Cup teams.
17. Ricci – Short stay, but left his mark, especially on the ’96 team, plus he was traded for what turned out to be Tanguay.
18. Podein – Another personal favorite of the entire @ MHH family, important contributor to the ’01 team.
19. Krupp – GW OT Stanley Cup-clinching goal. Nuff said.

Hey, I only now just bothered to read the article, but here’s the quote that got me thinking:

“You’re splitting hairs if you pick one between Dom, Roy and Brodeur because they all had different styles,” said Yzerman, a team executive and Hasek’s former teammate. “It’s like comparing Mercedes, Ferrari to Porsche.”
– http://www.denverpost.com/avalanche/ci_9534634

I know the americans aren’t that big on cars (seeing as you can stand the sight of Dodge’s and Ford’s), but in Europe there’s a pretty clear difference between Mercs, Ferrari’s and Porsche’s!

First of all, you don’t drive a Merc unless you’re a 70 year old, white pimp with ho’s in da trunk.
Porsche’s are VW Beatles that outgrew their own skin.
Lastly, Ferrari’s are pedigree’s. These cars are made by the best car company in the world, and therefor dominate wherever they go. They do make everyone flip you the bird on the road, but jealousy makes people irrational!
When you drive a ferrari you are allowed to be arrogant!

But don’t take my word for it. I’m just sitting here in my mum’s basement wearing nothing but boxers and a T-shirt. Listen to Jeremy Clarkson from Top Gear (http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/).

No I want to be picky on the way Yzerman called out the respective names:
“Dom, Roy and Brodeur” &
“Mercedes, Ferrari to Porsche”

Dare I imply Dom=Merc, Roy=Ferrari and Brodeur=Porsche?
I know the first 2 are accurate, but can anyone help me on Brodeur’s background

After this pro-Italy speech I feel I should point out I’m not actually Italian, I am dutch.
AND WE JUST KICKED THEIR ASSES 3-0!!!! SUCK IT, ITALIAN BEATCHES!!!