An interesting article I stumbled upon.

Homophobia in the NHL.

Never really thought about this. With all the trash talking in the scrums, I'm sure it's true on the ice as well as in the locker room.

3 months ago avesfan14 12 comments 0 recs |

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It is interesting, and brings up a ton of questions…and controversy. Where is the line drawn that says, “This side is ok to say, but that side isn’t” and does that line become censorship?

I have to say I’m surprised that there hasn’t been a retired player to come out. It really makes me wonder why…

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by BeachNSnowGirl on Nov 3, 2009 11:20 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Interesting

I don’t think that homophobia is the issue. On my high school hockey team, we had an individual on the team my senior year that everyone had serious questions about. It didn’t affect anything, but it would have if he had told us he was gay.

Again, I don’t think that homophobia is the issue. I’ve said to people that I wouldn’t be comfortable lockering or showering next to a male that I knew was gay, and I have to imagine that I’m not the only one. The responses that I always get are either, A) “You must be vain if you think that every gay man is checking you out,” or B) “You’re a homophobe,” or some facsimile of those.

That’s just not it. This is different than the office. Sure, it’s a place of work, but it’s not Hewlett-Packard. The best analogy that I can think of is this: think of the awkward feeling that you would get if you were showering or lockering next to someone of the opposite sex (not your spouse). It would be the same, only opposite, if you know what I mean.

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by wtnelson on Nov 3, 2009 4:04 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

The best analogy that I can think of is this: think of the awkward feeling that you would get if you were showering or lockering next to someone of the opposite sex (not your spouse). It would be the same, only opposite, if you know what I mean.

I totally disagree. I have lesbians on my hockey team and I undress in front of them all the time. I don’t even remotely feel uncomfortable or like they’re checking me out, which is what would drive that uncomfortable feeling you speak of. Furthermore, I was an actor and dancer for most of my life, and I did costume changes in a room full of guys and didn’t think twice about it. I think what you’re speaking of comes down to a basic comfort level with nakedness and an acceptance of gays as people, not gay people. My gay friends are just friends so being naked in front of them is no different than being naked in front of any other friend. Of course there are some people I wouldn’t undress in front of, but that has to do with my relationship to them and not their sexual orientation.

2009-2010 Avs: a game away from being up on blocks

by BeachNSnowGirl on Nov 3, 2009 9:26 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Try putting it this way

I have two friends who are gay (and a couple) Well, I have more than that, but…. Now one, I wouldn’t have a problem undressing around, because I know he’s not into me. However, I know the other one is, because he’s told me before, and that would make me a little skittish. What happens when you just don’t know? This happened to me years ago with a co-worker as well, where he was all into me, and I just didn’t want the attention. That situation got borderline sexual harrassment (and had it been me doing that to a girl, remove borderline) Put us on a hockey team, and its going to be a problem. It was damn sure a problem at work.

For the record, I would be a little skittish undressing around a girl I wasn’t into if I knew she was into me. You can say that it is insecurity or lack of a comfort level, but I think it just comes down to “hey, quit checking me out”. Hot women who get whistled at and ogled and have derogatory things said about them- and get pissed off about it know what I mean.

Where are the openly gay NBA, NFL and MLB players?

Pinchy has a very good point. To say that this is solely an NHL issue is ridiculous. Guys being guys, and the way locker rooms are, this is not going to change anytime soon. And the shit talking that goes on out on the ice? I’ll say most anything to get under a guys skin, doesn’t have to mean I mean it, I’m just trying to win a game. If you can’t take an insult you should not be in ~~pro~~ any sports, because you will be insulted for one reason or another.

Of course there are some people I wouldn’t undress in front of, but that has to do with my relationship to them and not their sexual orientation.

For most guys, this includes most gay men. This is just the way it is, and even if it were suddenly a penalty/fine/etc. issue, those feelings would still be there. Now, most people can get past that with a good friendship, but why bring a potential catastrophe to a head in the locker room? Chemistry is hard enough to come by without throwing potentially volatile variables like this into the mix.

Get rid of the loser point

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by TheRed on Nov 4, 2009 1:09 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

FWIW

The situation of having a person into you for whom you don’t have reciprocal feelings would fall under the “depends on the relationship with them” scenario.

My point is that, if you know it’s all just friendship, there shouldn’t be an issue.

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by BeachNSnowGirl on Nov 4, 2009 12:57 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with that

In my last paragraph I tried to address that. My point, or some of it, was that on a pro sports team, not everyone is going to be “friends”, and there is no point in throwing unneeded controversy into a situation (workplace/ business environment) where the main point is to win.

Get rid of the loser point

09-10 Avs- Nowhere to go but up!

by TheRed on Nov 4, 2009 3:53 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I can understand that. Still, it’s just basic bullshit that a player has to be uncomfortable so that the rest of the team (or some members at least) feel comfortable. A player has to compromise himself so that the others don’t feel compromised. Create controversy within himself so that there isn’t controversy in the locker room. Like I said, basic BS. (And I do realize you’re not saying it’s not BS…)

I know that’s a societal thing, but it just pisses me off every time I am faced with the notion. And it’s not just with sexual preference. Mental illness is another issue that hits close to home and gets me riled up. Misconceptions on that issue are even worse than those with homosexuality, IMHO.

2009-2010 Avs: a game away from being up on blocks

by BeachNSnowGirl on Nov 5, 2009 11:31 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

yea, I’m with Beachie on this one…I played on a co-ed traveling basketball team for 5 years and I can’t recall anyone of either gender having a problem in the locker rooms.

moreover…one of my best friends is a gay man, and I know he’s not attracted to me…so why would I have a problem changing in front of him? all gay men aren’t attracted to you just like all straight women aren’t attracted to you (or me, or any of us). i would think mature adults would be able to handle it. think about nurses in a hospital or caregivers in nursing homes…are they all attracted to their patients if the patients are of the gender they’re attracted to?

come to think of it, how did this get to be about changing? i think the real issue in this article is the slurs and anti-gay speech being tossed around in the locker room and in the scrums. the general anti-gay attitude among the players in the league makes it an impossible environment for anyone to come out in, and that brings the maturity level out there down quite a few notches if you ask me.

~Billy

by avesfan14 on Nov 3, 2009 10:22 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

I tend to shy away from controversy, but… (yeah right) If you are gay and in the NHL, you need to have extremely thick skin for the time being.

I think in the same way that there are genetic gay men (and women), there are genetic macho pack leader types that will always clash with each other. You can’t be single sided with genetics (or choice).

Unless they make gay slurs a 2 minute penalty, the verbiage in the scrums isn’t going to change any time soon. And on that note, I don’t think it makes you a homophobe if you use those slurs in the heat of battle. I have said A LOT of stuff I never truly meant in heated arguments and sports… it just happens. And, unfortunately, gay slurs have become common cuss words and used without much thought about what or who it might offend.

Where are the openly gay NBA, NFL and MLB players?

Personal experience. I was a key witness in getting one of my 3 roommates kicked out of the military for being gay. Yeah it sucked, but it literally had caused our entire barracks (200 guys) to become a huge mess without going into details. I’m not defending it, but it happened. Point being… men in an environment like that don’t handle it the same way as women do, Beachie ;)

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by Pinchy The Lobster on Nov 3, 2009 11:19 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

To be honest, I have no issue with the gay slurs (or any others…like, "Your dick is so small she’d need a magnifying glass to find it) thrown around on the ice. That’s, like Pinchy said, heat of the battle stuff. I do take issue with the fact that an otherwise thick skinned person would not feel comfortable being who he is because he’s concerned about the taunting he’d get from his own teammates or the media that was done out of hate or disgust.

When I was on a co-ed hockey team (where I was the only woman), we’d throw around all sorts of insults but always in a manner so that the recipient knew we were joking. Mostly it centered around the play on the ice. (i.e., “Beachie, you sucked out there tonight! You couldn’t hit the back of the net if it was big enough to catch a whale.”) I also got a, “Knocking people off the puck with that big ass, aren’t ya” the othe night from an opposing player. Eh, it’s trash talk designed to throw you off your game. All was good. It did help, tho, to know I do not, in fact, have a big ass. lol.

I do agree, tho, that women in general handle it better than men in general. That probably also goes back to genetics…and how often guys actually think about sex. ; – )

2009-2010 Avs: a game away from being up on blocks

by BeachNSnowGirl on Nov 4, 2009 1:10 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

It’s going to take a very good player coming out of the closet at the prime of his career, or a gay player being drafted #1 and not flopping. And I don’t think anything is going to change until that happens.

Not because Players are inherently homophobic, but because it’s going to take something shocking to get people out of the habits and ruts that they are in. That’s not to say some players aren’t homophobic, but I don’t think a majority are.

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by Jibblescribbits on Nov 4, 2009 8:06 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

The attitude of the league will change with the attitude of society at large, I’m sure…I just hope we don’t lose our chance to see some fantastic player succeed because he’s getting put down in the locker room or the scrums and it becomes so much a part of his psyche that it affects his play.

I just thought it was an interesting article, and i think it’s something to think about.

~Billy

by avesfan14 on Nov 4, 2009 1:04 PM MST reply actions 0 recs