The Jibbles-Dater Accords

[Hey kids, remember me? Yeah, I don't either.]
In San Jose this past weekend, a watershed event in the history of the Colorado Avalanche took place. It didn't take place on the ice and it didn't really have anything to do with anyone on the team. No, it was more important than that. A beat reporter who works for an actual newspaper sat down and had a drink with a part-time, independent blogger. One of them met one of us. Holy crap.
The esteemed Jibblescribbits, he with the eponymous Avalanche blog, met with Denver Post writer Adrian Dater while the latter was in California for the Avs' disappointing but completely expected loss to the Sharks on Sunday. Like myself, David, Jori and all the other Avalanche bloggers, Jibbles has been interacting with (see also: relying on) Dater's writing at the Post for some time now. Years even. Without Dater's hard work, most of us would have a lot less to work with, since he's the most reliable, most prolific source of "inside" information about the team.
You can read both their takes on the meeting here and here. Must-read stuff, especially for all the DD-C/Mile High Hockey love being poured out by Dater and the yokels in the comment thread to his post.
But the meeting wasn't significant because of who Dater and Jibbles are as people. Neither could be considered a celebrity (sorry guys). Their meeting was important because of what they represent. On one side, the Old Guard of print journalism, the trained, credentialed reporter, tasked by his newspaper to penetrate the team's circle of trust and report the in-depth, personal stories of the players, the coaches, and the management to the readers at home. On the other side, the precocious and independent "youth" of blogging, tasked by himself to give an expletive-soaked voice to the silent fan, the main source of income and lifeblood of any sports team and not bound by any formal tradition or stuffy set of norms.
Why is this important? Because one side is on a slow and steady downward spiral, hampered by an archaic business model and out-paced by technological innovation, while the other side is still enjoying a meteoric rise in reach and influence, unbound by the ways of the past or the strict rules of engagement once followed by respected journalists. When I read both their takes, I immediately thought of Cortes meeting with Montezuma upon his landing in Mexico, just before the Aztecs all got smallpox and died and the Spanish went on to conquer much of the Western Hemisphere. Guess who is Cortes and who is Montezuma in this little analogy.
It seems kind of silly to make such a big deal out of two dudes knocking back drinks at a bar in southern northern California, talking about hockey and newspapers. Who cares, right? I mean, really, why shouldn't Mr. Big Shot Reporter and Mr. Asshole Blogger be able to hang and chat like normal people with similar interests? This shouldn't even be worth writing about at all.
And yet, it is worth writing about. Not just by me, or David, or the wise-asses in the MHH comment threads, but by Jibbles and Dater themselves. Both took the time to write lengthy pieces on their meeting, discussing in detail what they talked about and their impressions of the other party. Why? Because both guys understand their roles in a quickly-changing "media landscape" (I hate that, sorry) and the major impact the fake world of blogs and the Internet have had on the real world of newspapers and sports reporting.
The decline of newspapers is real. Maybe it's all Craigslist's fault like Dater thinks, or maybe it's because the hard-copy print format is just too slow and the Internet model isn't yet refined enough to make real money. Or maybe it's because fans want to read their own asinine commentary instead of some snob with a lanyard, a laptop and a journalism degree parroting the team's official talking points. Or maybe newspapers just don't have enough boobs. That's my vote.
Whatever the reason, newspapers as we have always known them might very soon be a fond (or not-so-fond) memory. And blogs are here to stay, at least until some new, better boob-sharing platform comes along. I don't want to say that the casual meeting between Jibbles and Dater represented some kind of mystical passing of the torch or something, but it kind of feels that way. Kind of.
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37 comments
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Comments
/me falls out of chair
Hyphens cause writers more trouble than any other form of punctuation, except perhaps commas.
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Mar 25, 2009 7:24 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
ps this blog needs more words that I have to look up, like eponymous!
Hyphens cause writers more trouble than any other form of punctuation, except perhaps commas.
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Mar 25, 2009 7:27 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know about that, but it could certainly use more boobs. Just don’t forget the “NSFW” disclaimer.
Go Avs! Let's get some goals!
by Joe Dunman on Mar 25, 2009 7:44 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
we got one back today…how many more would we need?
Hyphens cause writers more trouble than any other form of punctuation, except perhaps commas.
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Mar 25, 2009 7:45 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
ZING!
Go Avs! Let's get some goals!
by Joe Dunman on Mar 25, 2009 7:47 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ten minutes after posting this, my brother sends me a text message:
“So you going to finish the Top 19 list now?”
What a dick.
Go Avs! Let's get some goals!
by Joe Dunman on Mar 25, 2009 7:47 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
even though his choice of teams is terrible, he’s truly one of us.
Hyphens cause writers more trouble than any other form of punctuation, except perhaps commas.
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Mar 25, 2009 7:49 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am both insulted and flattered.
Let's go Pens!
by JDunman on Mar 25, 2009 2:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That pretty much sums up my experience with MHH, too.
Go Avs! Let's get some goals!
by Joe Dunman on Mar 25, 2009 3:45 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
We all love you, Joe. Only mine is because I was born into it.
Let's go Pens!
by JDunman on Mar 25, 2009 7:07 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
So...
Answer the question
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
by PPP on Mar 25, 2009 8:08 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hi!
Welcome back! And really, you could just sneakily post the remaining 6 in the cell on the left and not say anything to anybody… :-)
by Mrs @ MHH on Mar 25, 2009 8:14 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
More significant
Actually guys, I negotiated permission to run the entire Denver Post sports section, but I had to give Dater some lovely beads in return.
(P.S. San Jose is in Northern California, near San Francisco)
by Jibblescribbits on Mar 25, 2009 8:36 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Dude, I totally knew that. I have absolutely no idea why I wrote “southern.” I guess since everything seems to revolve around southern California. Duh x 1000.
Go Avs! Let's get some goals!
by Joe Dunman on Mar 25, 2009 9:28 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
One more thing
Mr. Big Shot Reporter and Mr. Asshole Blogger
I was actually promoted to Major Asshole Blogger

by Jibblescribbits on Mar 25, 2009 8:39 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Mr. Major?
Go Avs! Let's get some goals!
by Joe Dunman on Mar 25, 2009 9:29 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep firing, assholes!
Get rid of the loser point
08-09 Avs- can we decline the penalty?
by TheRed on Mar 25, 2009 12:23 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
good to see you again, Joe. law school going well?
by thedoctor on Mar 25, 2009 9:40 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Busy as hell. You may never see me again.
Go Avs! Let's get some goals!
by Joe Dunman on Mar 25, 2009 12:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope not
If I do, it means I’m in trouble with the law.
2008-2009 Avalanche: It's like watching a car crash.
by Drakenlot on Mar 25, 2009 1:43 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
one of my best freinds is just finishing up. he says the 1st year is way worse than the others, if that’s any consolation.
by thedoctor on Mar 25, 2009 2:24 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve heard the same from classmates. I’m crossing my fingers.
Go Avs! Let's get some goals!
by Joe Dunman on Mar 25, 2009 3:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they let you talk to others, clearly they are not working you hard enough.
by Jibblescribbits on Mar 25, 2009 3:49 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely miis you around here, Joe. Great post.
An ounce of confidence can carry you a mile toward winning. Oh, and Red Wings suck.
by texacogirl on Mar 25, 2009 6:59 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gah
miss
An ounce of confidence can carry you a mile toward winning. Oh, and Red Wings suck.
by texacogirl on Mar 25, 2009 6:59 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting exchange
It’s been fun reading everyone’s take on this, here and at Jibblescribbits’ and AD’s blog. I got a journalism degree in 2004. In the very first class, communications 101, they said magazines and newspapers were dying from a lack of ad revenue and that we should seriously consider getting some web skills.
Obviously, the trend is still playing out, and the economy is speeding things up. The same questions from the beginning of the decade about how to sustain newspapers in the online age remain unanswered, and it’s too bad. I read blogs and newspapers (albeit for free, online), and I want them both to thrive.
One thing I’d love to see the Avalanche do is show some more respect for the blogging community. I do PR now for a company that gives bloggers the same level of access to the top execs that we grant to the Wall Street Journal. Transparency isn’t something the Avs are into, but when the level of reporting is on par with the big guys (or guy now, I guess), which it clearly is in Denver, there’s no reason not to give credentials to the bloggers doing it right. If the Huffington Post gets into White House press conferences now, why is it so scary letting MHH interview Granato?
by AHead on Mar 25, 2009 10:04 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
why is it so scary letting MHH interview Granato?
Cuz they might ask for the name of his pet goat?
Avs. Sticking it to the Red Wings
by hockeymom on Mar 25, 2009 10:16 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly.
honestly, I’ve never tried to contact anyone from the Avalanche organization. For all I know, they’re just waiting to welcome bloggers with open arms, like other NHL teams that actually “get it”. But I doubt it. And they’ve certainly never reached out to me and my email is readily available…
Hyphens cause writers more trouble than any other form of punctuation, except perhaps commas.
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Mar 25, 2009 11:10 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me neither
I don’t really want press credentials or whatever for the Avs. I think it would change my view as a fan of the team, and that’s the last thing I want. If i saw which guys were laughing outside the locker room after the Edmonton that would change the way I think about them, no matter how much I tried not to let it.
Transparency isn’t something the Avs are into, but when the level of reporting is on par with the big guys (or guy now, I guess)
I would disagree with this. I think the opinions we write is on par with anything the paper puts out (especially when guys like Kiszla and Paige write about the Avs), but as for actual reporting, none of us do any reporting. We get all our injury “scoops” from the Post and the News/InDenver, TSN, etc.
by Jibblescribbits on Mar 25, 2009 12:17 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think there’s some conspiracy to exclude bloggers, but it seems silly that there isn’t more of an attempt at a dialogue on the Avs’ part. In general, even — how many times have fans here and elsewhere been asking for some kind of explanation of where the team is heading? All we can do is assume they don’t have a plan, and read between the lines on who’s getting the boot in the offseason.
by AHead on Mar 25, 2009 11:53 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
no, I agree. It doesn’t sound like even the beat writers enjoy a great deal of access from the club.
Hyphens cause writers more trouble than any other form of punctuation, except perhaps commas.
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Mar 25, 2009 11:54 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Part of the conversation with AD that I left out was a little bit of the paranoia and shut-in attitude of the entire Avs organization. Dater called it “Nixonian”.
One thing he mentioned was that Mcnab and Haynes will be called into the office for anything even closely perceived as criticism of the team, and if they start to say something too critical on-air (and by too critical this means too critical for McNab and Hayes) they will get someone coming into their broadcast booth telling them to stop the criticism.
by Jibblescribbits on Mar 25, 2009 12:20 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
Nixonian is right, although maybe a little understated, if possible. I mean, we all knew they couldn’t be too critical, but to have the censor right outside the booth? That seems almost “1984” or farenheit 451" ish. Maybe he should have called it “Orwellian” instead.
Get rid of the loser point
08-09 Avs- can we decline the penalty?
by TheRed on Mar 25, 2009 12:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
that’s crazy. if I’m Haynes or McNabb I quit.
by thedoctor on Mar 25, 2009 12:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe,
But what else do you do in this economy? Which doesn’t explain why they haven’t quit before now, although maybe does explain why some others are no longer here….
And the continuing presence of r-tards like the Browman chick. Maybe they figure if you are completely ignorant about hockey you won’t be able to call it like it is, you’ll only be able to spew the company line.
Get rid of the loser point
08-09 Avs- can we decline the penalty?
by TheRed on Mar 25, 2009 12:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except there doesn’t appear to be a ‘company line’ other than “Move along. Nothing to see here…”
2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Dry Humping Mediocrity
by Mike @ MHH on Mar 25, 2009 5:58 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is all Droolie Julie can handle
Get rid of the loser point
08-09 Avs- can we decline the penalty?
by TheRed on Mar 25, 2009 11:44 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs





























