I have too much time on my hands: 2 trade proposals
So, while we await the upcoming NHL draft, there's really nothing going on in the hockey world but free agent speculation, mock drafts, and trade proposals. Anyone who knows me from here, know I love lineup speculation and trade proposals.
Normally I try to keep the trade proposals to hfboards, but these ones are so out there, I thought I'd bring them to a place with much better discussion. :) Maybe I can prevent some boredom in others as well as myself!
Proposal #1:
To Pittsburgh: Marek Svatos
To Colorado: '09 2nd, '10 3rd (conditional on Svatos scoring 30 goals)
Comments: I'm a well known Svatos hater, and with Jones and Stewart coming into their own as 2nd/3rd line options, it's time to trade Svatos while we can get some value for him.
Pittsburgh fans seem to like the idea of trading for Svatos on hf, and the value is about what they've offered, just with a little twist in the form of the conditional pick. Overall, I think this would be a good move for both teams.
Proposal #2:
Ok, let's assume Tampa Bay succeeds in trading Lecavalier on draft day, and they select Duchene at #2 after the Islanders select Tavares #1. That leaves us with Hedman at #3, and I'm sure many people around there parts would be thrilled.
But where does that leave our lineup? I'll tell you: hoping for Wolski to improve enough to be a legit 2nd line center, old, and slow. And massively overpaid and overstocked on D. Until we do this:
To Philly: Wojtek Wolski, John-Michael Liles (7.0m total cap hit)
To Colorado: Danny Briere, Randy Jones, James van Riemsdyk (9.25m total cap hit + JvR's entry contract, currently unknown but probably about a 2.5-3m cap hit with bonuses)
Comments: Whoa doc! Taking on Briere's contract? Trading 2 of our best players? Adding salary when we're already tight? Well, yeah. Let me explain why I'd think about it.
For Colorado, it's true, Briere's 6.5m cap hit for the next 6(!) years is a tough pill to swallow. But Briere is a point per game player when healthy, and even last year playing out of shape on the 3rd and 4th lines he projected to a 30 goal pace over 82 games. He's also fast, and extremely talented. He's pretty close to what we need on the 2nd line behind Stastny. Briere in Colorado, despite the bad contract, makes some sense if we don't get Duchene.
Randy Jones is another bad contract and a Brett Clark clone, but it's up after this year. This cap relief versus Liles' contract going forward is what the team will need.
But the real gem that makes these 2 contracts palatable to Colorado is James van Riemsdyk. I'll let HF profile him:
He has high offensive potential; from his great size to his superb technical skating ability, he can be a complete package offensively. He makes his living in the slot, shielding off defenders and potting goal after goal.
HF rates him as the 13th best prospect in the league as of April, a few spots ahead of our own guy Shattenkirk. He's probably a few years out from hitting his stride, but so are most of our young guys.
This trade makes us a bit worse in the short term, but really lines things up down the road.
From Philly's perspective, I think this makes a lot of sense for them too, though I admit I'm far less familiar with their situation. Their lines look something like this today, as far as I can tell:
Hartnell - Carter - Lupul
Gagne - Richards - Giroux
With Briere centering Powe and someone else on the 3rd. Briere is a terrible 3rd liner...but with Wolski, they have a 3rd line center that is an answer to the Pittsburgh Staal 3rd line, and who can back up the easily-broken Gagne and Hartnell at LW in the top 6. Wolski may also really reach his potential there as well.
Liles is a huge upgrade over Carle/Jones on the point of the PP, and really adds some punch to their 2nd pairing.
Even better, it frees up about 2.25m in cap space this year and if they choose to move Liles or Carle, they can finally go after Bouwmeester, whom they covet. Losing JvR is a blow, but they can tolerate it for the cap flexiblilty and better players for their roles the trade gives them going forward.
And as for the Avalanche cap...we could do it. This coming year would be tight, but possible (if you don't care, skip to the grand total):
Smyth - Stastny - Hejduk = 16.75m
JvR - Briere - Stewart = 9.85m (assuming 2.5m for JvR)
McLeod - Hensick/Galiardi - Jones = 2.2m
Stoa/Mercier - Guite - McCormick = 1.8m
2 minimum wage scratches = 1m
= 31.6m
Hannan - Hedman = 7m (assuming 2.5m for Hedman)
Clark - Foote = 6.5m
Salei - Jones = 5.775
Vernace = .75
= 20.025m
Goalie X = ~2m
Budaj = .85m
Tucker Buyout = .75m
GRAND TOTAL = 55.225m (and remember this will go down as the entry level guys inevitably fail to meet bonuses, so there's room for callups as well)
Yes, it does work for next year, and the year after there will be massive relief on the horizon with Hejduk and the 4 crappy defensemen (Clark, Jones, Salei, and Foote) all up for new deals. There'll be plenty of room for Gaunce, Shattenkirk and other new defensemen, and plenty of cap room going forward as our young guys come up for contracts.
So what do you guys think? Yes, I have too much time on my hands today at work -- I'm watching build servers run, but besides that? :)
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54 comments
Comments
i also just want to say
holy crap is the new post creation tools awesome. the auto-tagging and such are incredible!
by thedoctor on Jun 17, 2009 4:45 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
i have always liked Svatos
but he just hasn’t been cutting it here. Blame it on the system, the line chemistry, whatever. I think that he would do really well somewhere else, and he is a valuable commodity. Unless Sacco and Sherman are really high on him I think we should expect to see him moved this summer. Picks would be good, or bundled into a goalie trade.
as for the second trade… I don’t feel qualified to pick it apart. I just don’t know enough about the players. I’ll learn more and then ill give some qualified response.
Sippin' PBR on a Colorado game day...
by mfured20 on Jun 17, 2009 5:26 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Not sure about the 2nd proposal
I’ve always seen Danny Briere as another Paul Kariya. Awesome when healthy, which is never.
by InYoFace on Jun 17, 2009 7:28 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
ditto
There is no way I want Briere here.
by From the Point on Jun 17, 2009 8:55 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Kariya comparison is pretty fair
And Kariya was a very good player in his prime, but he was certainly a risk with how injuries went with him. We know that maybe better than any fanbase, I’d say…
Let’s get this straight though, even though Briere is a huge risk given the injury concern and his contract, it’s a) not as big as we think b) mitigated with a killer prospect in JvR, and c) Wolski as the 2nd line center is a risk too. Let me explain why I think that.
Briere’s contract is massive, but the big front loaded years are done and there’s 2 very small years at the tail end of the contract. If Briere isn’t working out 4 years in, his play is slipping, etc, his buyout is only .833 per year…for 4 years, but that’s really nothing if we’re experiencing cap trouble. So it’s really “only” 4 years of the 6.5m hit if he’s not working out, with another negligible 4 years of ~.8m hits. Another benefit to front loading contracts — watch Detroit start doing this in 5-10 years.
And I think Briere could work out quite well — even in years he’s injured, he’s still scoring over 50 points regularly, and the ones he’s healthy (2 out of the last 3 and 3 of the last 5) he’s scoring 65-95 points. Compare that to a healthy Wolski’s offense — we’re hoping and praying he breaks 50 points assuming he stays healthy! I know Wolski brings better defense and such, but this team needs scoring so badly keeping Wolski and hoping his offense gets up to par is a risk in and of itself. Don’t forget we’re adding that stud prospect in JvR too…
really, it comes down to this: if we get Hedman, I think we’ve gotta look at how to improve the offense too. This is a stab at that.
by thedoctor on Jun 18, 2009 9:57 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Detroit does it already
Check out Zetterberg and Franzen’s contracts.
And I’m not fond of Briere, but I guess he could work here.
I guess the trade is pretty good. The more I think on it, the more I’m liking it, mainly cause of Van Reim.
2008-2009 Avalanche: It's like watching a car crash.
by Drakenlot on Jun 18, 2009 10:17 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
i meant the buying out part in 5-10 years, cleaning up their super long contracts.
by thedoctor on Jun 18, 2009 10:34 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
I don’t think Zets and Franzen are going to be bought out. Ever.
2008-2009 Avalanche: It's like watching a car crash.
by Drakenlot on Jun 18, 2009 11:46 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd put a dollar on franzen getting bought out
he’s going to have a short career with his play-style and injury prone nature.
by thedoctor on Jun 18, 2009 1:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really like the Svatos trade. He seems so overrated to me. I don’t understand how a sniper can’t figure out how pass the puck. If you’re a sniper, you should be able to make a sweet tape-to-tape pass to help somebody else get it into the net.
by mcarson01 on Jun 17, 2009 10:47 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I’d rather see the Avs draft Kane or Schenn if Duchene is not around.
by Avalanche318 on Jun 18, 2009 8:29 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
I see one of them having more of an impact on the team as it’s currently constructed.
by Streams Of Whiskey on Jun 19, 2009 9:16 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I voted no because of the tightness of the cap. We saw what management will do with injuries when the HAVE room. I’d shudder to think what will happen in that Briere scenario when he gets hurt in game 17 and we’ve traded away the only good offensive defenseman and arguably our pre-draft-day 2nd line center.
2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Dry Humping Mediocrity
by Mike @ MHH on Jun 18, 2009 9:06 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
don’t forget in this scenario we’ve added Hedman, by all accounts an even better offensive defenseman than Liles.
And I’m not sure what you’re referring to by what we did with injuries? We called up Willsie? :)
by thedoctor on Jun 18, 2009 9:37 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. We’re trading some offensive production for the likelihood of some production from Hedman and a healthy Briere.
Liles and the Baron have been pretty consistent from a “repetitive injury” standpoint.
2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Dry Humping Mediocrity
by Mike @ MHH on Jun 18, 2009 1:06 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m saying I think on this team Briere, even with injuries, will outscore Wolski. I’m also pretty comfortable with banking on Hedman to replace Liles.
It’s all moot anyways, i’d give it 75% odds we come away with Duchene at this point. :)
by thedoctor on Jun 18, 2009 3:27 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn’t it be better to have both Liles and Hedman? Why not trade the Hobbit instead?
An ounce of confidence can carry you a mile toward winning. Oh, and Red Wings suck.
by texacogirl on Jun 20, 2009 4:41 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
if they wanted him and Hannan would waive his NTC
then i would do this instead. i think they’d prefer Liles though, and getting Hannan to waive his NTC for Philly would be tough.
by thedoctor on Jun 20, 2009 5:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I mean, they would actually expect him to play defense…. I’m sure he wouldn’t be interested in that at all :)
An ounce of confidence can carry you a mile toward winning. Oh, and Red Wings suck.
by texacogirl on Jun 20, 2009 10:16 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm curious, people voting for "if it was tweaked"
what are these tweaks?
by thedoctor on Jun 18, 2009 9:38 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think you can get equitable value for Svatos right now. Let me say that I’m not great Svatos fan only because he’s been so one dimensional in his career. His play making ability has improved and so has his defense. I’ve always appreciated his work ethic and “fire” for lack of a better term. The big thing to keep in mind is that last year was Svatos’ first year off the knee surgery. He wore a no contact jersey for all of training camp and didn’t participate in preseason from what I remember. He admitted on several occasions that he was still dealing with pain in the knee. Svatos, like Hejduk the second year after his knee scope should bounce back with a much better year. With that in mind, if you are going to deal him I think you have to wait until closer to the trade deadline so you have better value. By the trade deadline or at least with a quarter season under his belt, there’s hopefully some production to point to get a better deal for him. Hell, he might find a niche in the new coaching staff to actually be a player to keep.
by Dario on Jun 18, 2009 10:14 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
good point, he might bring in more value at the deadline if he has a good start.
I don’t think that’s happening though. I think you’d get more now.
by thedoctor on Jun 18, 2009 10:37 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Svats
I really think he should be packaged for someone who can help out right away. I’m really weary of turning a guy like Svats into picks.
I look at it this way: If they Avs drafted a late-second rounder and he turned into Svats would it be considered a success? I think the answer is “not the best pick, but certainly not a failure”. In that regards I can’t get behind this Svats trade.
The second trade is interesting, and I think I could get behind it. I think we may have to throw in a 3rd rounder though.
by Jibblescribbits on Jun 18, 2009 11:22 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
rememeber they’re gaining cap room. I imagine they’d look at it like Wolski, Liles, and Bouwmeester at some level.
I think it’s pretty fair as is…but I could be talked into a mid round pick too if there was a compelling argument the other way.
by thedoctor on Jun 18, 2009 2:14 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
The first trade I’m not a huge fan of, but the second trade I think would be excellent. Everyone is worried about the injuries and Briere and such, but what about James van Riemsdyk? I mean, the kid is a player. We’d essentially be adding two top-notch prospects, plus a second line center (assuming Sakic doesn’t come back) to replace Wolski. Injuries are always a concern, especially with our training staff, but the second deal makes a ton of sense to me.
If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding! HOW can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?!
by SlamDunkTheFunk on Jun 18, 2009 12:53 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
glad someone agrees with me
but ultimately I think both fanbases will hate it — us because we lose 2 well-liked home-grown good players and we’re adding that crazy contract of Briere’s, Philly because they’re losing their organization’s mega prospect for the last 2 years.
by thedoctor on Jun 18, 2009 1:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh
You can’t judge a trade based on the fanbase’s happiness (See: Cutler, Jay). I think the deal makes a lot of sense, and even if we do have to throw in a third rounder like Jibbles has mentioned, I’d still do the deal in a heartbeat. It makes an awful lot of sense to me, actually.
If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding! HOW can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?!
by SlamDunkTheFunk on Jun 18, 2009 3:00 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
I think i’d agree and pull the trigger on this trade. I don’t think Philly would do the deal unless we threw in at least a draft pick or two.
by Jibblescribbits on Jun 18, 2009 2:04 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Free Agency
Or we could just go after the Sedin twins (riiiiight). TSN’s reporting that they each want contracts similar to Zetterbergs 12-year $73 million. Throw in trying to re-sign Luongo, and I think the Canucks are screwed.
by jd21 on Jun 18, 2009 12:58 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah, if they do those contracts it would be pretty lol.
by thedoctor on Jun 18, 2009 1:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Th Sedin twins might as well combine to form One salary since they don’t seem to want to play on different teams. Maybe then they’d have a chance at not killing a teams cap.
The Savage has spoken. Let it be done
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by, and that has made all the difference"
R. Frost
by Savage33 on Jun 19, 2009 1:44 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wonder Twin Powers Activate!!!!
2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Dry Humping Mediocrity
by Mike @ MHH on Jun 19, 2009 7:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Philly
Richards is really the 3rd line center in Philly. Carter and Giroux/Briere will center the two “scoring” lines in Philly next year, while Richards will continue to handling the responsibility of playing against the opponents top scoring line and will continue to be a primary penalty killer. He just scores a lot more than most 3rd liners.
Because of Philly’s strength at center and especially because of Richards, I don’t see Wolski as a great fit for Philly as you’ve outlined. I do think that Philly would be pretty interested in Liles and with the emergence of Giroux they have a lot of motivation to trade Briere.
by Inebriated Simian Miscreants on Jun 18, 2009 1:06 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I think they use Richards much like we use Stastny here, and no is calling Stastny a 3rd line center. I’ll go post a fanshot linking to this over at the Flyer sbnation site in a bit, but I think they’d agree Richards is certainly a top 2 center over there.
and even so they do have two very oft-injured LWs as well in Hartnell and Gagne. Wolski adds size, defense and depth that Briere can’t touch at center AND on LW. I think he’s a great fit, especially if he ever found his top gear consistently.
by thedoctor on Jun 18, 2009 1:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with your comparison to Stastny. The difference is that Stastny is the Avs best offensive option at center in addition to being the Avs best defensive option at center. The Avs have nothing like Carter, Briere, or Giroux right now (assuming Sakic retires). Given the relative strengths of Carter, Briere, Giroux, and Richards, Philly has the luxury of using the Richards line as a defensive line, and they have enough forward depth to build 3 lines that can score like most teams’ top 2 lines.
The Flyers could really use a 4th line center who requires little ice time and salary and who excels at faceoffs.
by Inebriated Simian Miscreants on Jun 18, 2009 2:18 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I hate myself for clicking that line.
Damnit.
If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding! HOW can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?!
by SlamDunkTheFunk on Jun 18, 2009 3:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Big Bucks!!
The guy formerly known as "Where is Bob Hartley?". Because it's never going to happen. And no one knows where he is.
by Pinchy The Lobster on Jun 18, 2009 7:48 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
So I came over from thedoctor's post...
And first, just say hello. Interesting ideas, and speaking for myself, I’m always willing to listen to trades for Briere. And anyone willing to take Jones is automatically a friend (a sap?) in my book. So, a few things:
1) I honestly know very little, almost nothing about your beloved Avs. For this I apologize, but with the East/West divide, your disappointing season, and your absence from the playoffs, I haven’t had a chance to see you guys. I don’t even think I saw the Flyers/Avs game. If I’m not mistaken, you beat us handily in Philly in October? If I’m right, I blame <a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=6&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.huffingtonpost.com%2F2008%2F10%2F11%2Fhockey-mom-palin-greeted_n_133911.html&ei=2M46SsT5FYTCM5uQgK8F&usg=AFQjCNHQMjmPd1NP4sGKHBSYRbllfFrK7w&sig2=dPZ5XCoUGnpj-bD97kK_Iw" target="new">Sarah Palin.
2) I don’t know anything about Wojtek Wolski, and I don’t know anything about John-Michael Liles other than he came into the league as a promising defenseman. This is an extension of 1, but it needed to be said because:
3) Even wanting to get rid of Briere’s contract – not necessarily Briere – and Jones, I would need to be seriously convinced to make this trade. I could do research, but even the research I’d be able to do in a short amount of time wouldn’t give me an intelligent opinion. But:
4) Where we are right now should be explained. Richards played with Gagne and Knuble this year, occasionally with Giroux. The Hartnell-Carter-Lupul line will only be broken up with a trade, which is unlikely but not impossible. Our third line will be centered by Briere with Giroux on the right, possibly Powe on the left. But Knuble is a free agent on a team with no cash. Which leads to:
5) If Knuble isn’t resigned, Giroux moves up to Richards’ line, and the talk of him being a third line center is ridiculous. Richards was and is considered our first line center. With Gagne on the left and Knuble on the right, they definitely scored their share. Yes, Richards is a good defensive forward, but he’s still a huge part of our offense. If Giroux is up with Richards, our third and fourth line will need to be added to. Carcillo and Asham aren’t capable of playing with Briere and JVR isn’t ready yet, so the team will need wingers and not another center. Yes, Powe and Briere can play wing, but if your proposal went through, we’d still have two centers on the third line and need a wing.
6) Lastly, our defense needs an upgrade, but I’m one who thinks a small upgrade will suffice. I am advocating for our third pairing (Andrew Alberts and Jones) to be completely changed. If we keep Kimmo Timonen, Ryan Parent, Braydon Coburn, and Matt Carle and add Luca Sbisa full time this year, a guy like Mike Komisarek or Francois Beauchemin would do just fine. Yes, JBow would be nice, but we can’t afford another Danny Briere or Brian Campbell contract. I’m all for a lesser hyped d-man.
So, there are my thoughts. I don’t speak for the Flyers or the city, nor BSH, but just thought I’d give you some Philly fans’ perspective.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 18, 2009 5:47 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
thanks for taking the time to come over
i don’t get to watch the Flyers much either, but I did get to see them in the playoffs this year.
If Duchene doesn’t play or come here, Wolski is our 2nd line center at the moment. He’s big, but plays a more finesse game. He played on Sakic’s left wing until last year when Sakic and Stastny were hurt, then he moved to his position in junior, center. He’s a skilled defender, drew some Selke talk from Mirtle. He’s a shootout wizard, 10/12 last year. He’s not really broken out offensively, but he certainly could. Even if not, he’s good for 40-50 points a year. He’s only 22, though he’s played 3-4 years already. He’s considered part of the hope for the future around these parts, though no one is exactly sure what part he will end up playing, 1st 2nd or 3d line. I’d like to see him become our version of Jordan Staal if we got Duchene and we didn’t trade him — play on both special teams, solid defensive game at even strength with some scoring too.
Liles is a prototypical PP QB/offensive defenseman. Great skater, excellent passer, accurate if not hard shot, smart. He’s also added a solid defensive game with some hitting and physicality despite is lack of size. He’s probably our best defenseman, all things considered. Signed to a favorable contract too.
In short, they’re 2 very good players that would fit what I think the flyer’s needs are well: versatility, 2 way play, and most all with cap relief as you go forward.
by thedoctor on Jun 18, 2009 7:27 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Liles would be completely awesome if he could one time a pass, but everytime he gets a pass he has to control it, then fire it, and it’s not like he has a cannon, so he loses that element of surprise with his shot.
I'm Mr. Positive
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 18, 2009 8:29 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
- I could see pit doing that, I’d rather the avs went with 40 pt. thing rather than 30 goals since svatos has a history of injury, but i’d do it if pressed.
- like except randy jones, I’d try to take Carcillo, or maybe Nitamanki (the goaltender-however you spell his name) only if we lost out on every other goalie the avs are looking at. Only because the avs have such great upcoming depth at D
I'm Mr. Positive
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 18, 2009 8:17 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think a team can trade a UFA after the 1st
Meaning Niity can’t be traded.
I know I could, and probably am, wrong on this though.
2008-2009 Avalanche: It's like watching a car crash.
by Drakenlot on Jun 18, 2009 8:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty sure you’re right. Once the first hits, he’s “free”, hence, “free agent”
Get rid of the loser point
08-09 Avs- can we decline the penalty?
by TheRed on Jun 19, 2009 1:34 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
meh, he’s decidedly average, i’d rather have carcillo.
I'm Mr. Positive
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 19, 2009 7:59 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Flyer fan here, and I just don’t see it happening, or like the trade. We would be giving away a star (when he’s healthy), a future star, and a bum on D for a player you guys hope turns into a star, and a D-man no one hre seems to like.
I could see Wolski and Liles for Briere straight if it freed up cap room, but it doesn’t look like it will, so I’m not seeing any of this.
by BroadStreetBully on Jun 21, 2009 1:38 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
fair enough. If you really have that opinion of Briere, then this deal makes no sense for you. But I think you’re caught up in the on-ice value of players alone — there’s contract value to be considered too and with that Briere has essentially negative value. We’d never do Liles and Wolski for Briere. On player value, if we assume Briere to be be healthy, this deal might be closER, but it’s not even close when you think of the contracts.
we love Liles around here though, most every Avs fan does. He’s an excellent player, and signed to a good deal. not sure where you’re getting that.
by thedoctor on Jun 21, 2009 4:05 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love Philly fans. They think their players are the greatest and could never get equal return for them. Wolski could become a star. So could JVR. What has JVR done in the pros so far? Granted his upside is higher than Wolski’s but I don’t think Wolski has been put in the right situation yet. In Philly, he could be put in a great situation. Other trade rumors have been the Avs giving away the 3rd overall for Briere and the 21st overall. I like your proposal because I like Liles and Wolski but Philly fans won’t like them. I like bringing on JVR since we are rebuilding and we won’t rush him (hopefully). Plus, it gives both teams some cap flexibility. Could you imagine a line of JVR, Duchene, and Stewart/Galiardi? We may need to give up a 3rd round pick for it though. Also, another rumor has Hartnell going to the Kings for the #5 pick. I thought this was an awful trade but Flyers fans thought it was more than fair. Anybody else’s thoughts? (I share this to describe what Flyers fans would call “equal” value)
by Bringbackboone on Jun 21, 2009 6:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right. See, the Flyers Front Desk knew about Briere’s injury prone status. They still signed him long term, and threw in a no-trade to boot. You don’t sign a player like that to tie up cap-room and hope to sign someone better on down the line. You sign him for the talent. You basically seem to admit that the trade isn’t an equal trade of talent, but a free-up of cap room. Besides J-bo (Who the flyers aren’t going to get after the 1st) who is really going on the market that can equate to Briere’s skill? No one I can think of.
And no Boone, I don’t think our players are the greatest. Personally, I’m not a fan at all of Briere. I think he’s too small. He doesn’t dangle. He doesn’t have all that great of a shot. He’s a playmaker who can’t make plays happen. The flyers played most of their season without him, and did great. I’d rather they dump him for signing rights to J-bo, and a pick, but that’s never happening.
It might seem that I’m being a bit contradictory here, but I’m not.
I’d love to see Briere leave, but not to tie up cap room with players less skilled.
by BroadStreetBully on Jun 21, 2009 8:12 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think they more likely didn’t know Carter and Richards (and Giroux?) would all be this good this fast. You don’t pay 3 centers that kind of money*. I’d be fascinated if the Flyers were able to move Briere for a pick. I can’t think of a team that would and could do it and still be in their right mind, to be honest.
I think Wolski and Liles make sense for Philly from a roles and team construction standpoint, and if you didn’t like them you could flip them for picks easily, but I’ve made all these points above. Thanks for the viewpoint.
- Unless you’re in Pittsburgh’s spot. And you’re not. And even then Staal’s contract is excessive.
by thedoctor on Jun 21, 2009 11:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

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