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The Avalanche Rebuild: How Long Will It Take?

David and I are following the same theme today.

The word "rebuilding" was tossed around among fans and beat reporters during the 2008-09 season, but with Woody Paige's recent and insightful (ghost written?) article about Pierre Lacroix along with Joe Sakic's statements during his retirement press conference, it appears as though the Colorado Avalanche have now fully embraced the idea.  The rebuild is on.

So now that we're all working from the same script, how long exactly does a serious rebuilding effort really take?  Two seasons?  Four?  More than that?

To get a good sense of how long a serious rebuild takes to turn a lousy NHL team into a good one during the salary cap era, I probed two recent examples of great teams that weren't great at all just a few seasons ago.  What happened to those teams in the first place?  What did they do to make things better?  How much of it was luck and how much was astute front office planning?

The Pittsburgh Penguins 2001-2009

The first and most obvious team to analyze is the Pittsburgh Penguins.  After sucking something awful for nearly a decade, they've appeared in the Stanley Cup finals two seasons in a row and took home the Cup in 2009. 

What happened:

Without any notable, big-name defensemen or a dedicated number one goalie, the 2000-01 Penguins went 42-28-9-3 and finished third in the Atlantic Division.  Though their final standing wasn't that impressive, the Penguins, led by the older-but-still-glorious duo of Mario Lemieux and Jaromir Jagr, made it all the way to the conference finals.  Unfortunately, the New Jersey Devils were busy making a serious defense of the Cup they won the season before and the Penguins fell four games to one.  The next season, standouts like Jagr and Martin Straka were gone, and Johan Hedberg stopped standing on his head between the pipes like he had in the previous year's playoffs.  Oh, and Lemieux managed only 24 games due to recurring injuries.  Coach Ivan Hlinka lost the first four games of the season (including game one against the Cup champion Avalanche) and was fired.  Rick Kehoe replaced him and did a poor job.  The Penguins missed the playoffs for the first time in 12 years, finishing with a 28-41-8-5 record.

What they did:

Despite hanging on for another 70+ games over the next two years, Lemieux couldn't carry the team on his long-suffering back.  As it became clear the team wasn't going to succeed as it was built, the Penguins started dumping payroll: Straka, Alex Kovalev, Jan Hrdina and others were all gone.  The Penguins, gutted of talent and payroll, began focusing on drafting true talent.  In 2002, the Penguins picked up Ryan Whitney and Maxime Talbot.  In 2003, goalie Marc-Andre Fleury (1st overall).  In 2004, Evgeni Malkin (2nd overall) and Tyler Kennedy.  In 2005, Sidney Crosby (1st overall) and Kris "Le Game" Letang.  In 2006, Jordan Staal (2nd overall).  Two top picks and two second picks, and every single one of them turned out to be a solid if not spectacular player.  Also, the Penguins turned to guys like Ryan Malone, Rob Scuderi and Brooks Orpik, drafted before the collapse of the team in 2002 but not ready to play in the NHL until later.

As soon as the Lockout ended and the cap was in place, the Penguins began targeting budget-priced veterans who could provide leadership, grit and a few points on the board.  Sergei Gonchar, John LeClair, Ziggy Pallffy, Jarkko Ruutu and Mark Recchi initially, then Gary Roberts, Petr Sykora and Marian Hossa.  Finally in 2008-09, the Pens found the perfect match of old and new: Crosby, Malkin and the other in-house draftees with Sykora, Ruslan Fedotenko, Pascal Dupuis, Miroslav Satan and Bill Guerin.  That unlikely roster of vets proved to be just the right combination for Pittsburgh.

Clearly, the Pens got lucky in some ways.  Players past their prime produced above expectations (Satan, Guerin).  Younger players with limited skills made big splashes (Fedotenko, Chris Kunitz).  And players already achieving greatness didn't falter or disappoint (Crosby, Malkin).  Two deep playoff runs and one Cup later, it's clear the Penguins successfully rebuilt a terrible team in eight seasons.

The Chicago Blackhawks 2002-2009

What happened:

In 2001-02, a renewed Blackhawks team (which had missed the playoffs the four seasons prior) finished the season with a 41-27-13-1 record under new coach Brian Sutter.  Led by a solid-if-unspectacular offense featuring names like Eric Daze, Alex Zhamnov, Tony Amonte, Steve Sullivan and Michael Nylander, the 'Hawks overachieved all season.  By the playoffs, it was clear such a ho-hum collection of players and a mediocre starting goalie (poor Jocelyn Thibault) wasn't enough to get the job done.  Chicago lost in the first round to the Blues, four games to one.

The next season featured the same names (plus a superstar rookie named Tyler Arnason), but those names couldn't get any kind of winning rhythm together and the 'Hawks finished below the cutoff line with a record of 30-33-13-6.  They would miss the playoffs the next four years.  The seasons on either end of the Lockout were the worst, with Chicago managing just 46 victories total.

What they did:

Like the Penguins, the Blackhawks turned to high draft picks to fill out the ranks.  In 2003 they picked up solid D-man Brent Seabrook and power forward Dustin Byfuglien.  In 2004, they picked Cam Barker third overall and got reliable center Dave Bolland.  2005 was a dud draft for Chicago, but in 2006 they drafted Jonathan Toews third overall and Patrick Kane first overall in 2007.  With a very impressive group of young standouts, the Blackhawks then turned to veterans.  Martin Havlat (and his injury woes) was acquired at Ottawa's eventual expense.  Patrick Sharp came over from the Flyers and Andrew Ladd was traded from the HurricanesBrian Campbell was signed as a free agent.  The 'Hawks also relied on other young players either drafted by other teams or by Chicago before the decline: Matt Walker and Kris Versteeg, specifically.  And Chicago also picked up defensive forward Sammy Pahlsson at the trade deadline of 2008-09. 

The Blackhawks owed their vastly-improved 46-24-12 record not only to the strong combination of young and veteran players, but also to new president Rocky Wirtz and coach Joel Quenneville.  The death of Wirtz's father Bill and the firing of impeccably-dressed coach Denis Savard proved to be just the right moves for the 'Hawks to emerge in the Western Conference.  And despite Quenneville's insistence on platooning his goalies, Cristobal Huet and Nikolai Khabibulin proved up to the challenge. 

While the Blackhawks were ultimately disappointed in the Western Conference finals by division rival Detroit, the deep playoff run and the excellent regular season record indicate that the once-glorious Original Six franchise is back in competition and ready to win again. 

...

Will the Avalanche have similar success?  They've begun the process well, drafting Matt Duchene and signing Paul Stastny to a long contract.  But other young players have underperformed so far or are just not that good, and some important veterans like Milan Hejduk and Adam Foote won't be around much longer.  The Avalanche will have to rely on both strong drafting and cap-efficient veteran signings.  It's not an easy process, and there's a fair amount of luck involved.

It's not a stretch to assume the Colorado rebuild could take just as long as those of Chicago or Pittsburgh.  Let's hope not, but don't be surprised.

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Comments

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Look to Chicago

Not Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh built their team mainly through first round picks while Chicago used all the rounds to help their rebuild.

The Avs should be back competitve in two years, led by Stastny, Duchene and their new defensive corps featuring Shattenkirk, Cohen, Gaunce and 2009 draftee Stefan Elliot. The Avs are really deep up the middle, two budding young right wingers in Jones and Stewart. Their only weakness is the Left Wing which, if they are as bad as everyone says they will be picking somewhere near the top five, that should be remedied.

It could be a tough year this year but the ones afterward should trend upward.

by Avalangelist on Jul 13, 2009 12:25 PM MDT reply actions  

I think the rebuild will last as long as it takes for the Avs to find a legitimate number one netminder.

Colorado Avalanche Prospects (www.avsprospects.blogspot.com)

by Angélique C. Murray on Jul 13, 2009 12:45 PM MDT reply actions  

Not sold on Anderson?

Our 2009-2010 Avs: The towel has been thrown into the rink.

by Bob in Boulder on Jul 13, 2009 12:53 PM MDT up reply actions  

I’m pretty glad you left Phoenix and LA off of this list, since they pretty much have sucked despite all the rebuilding. Oh and Atlanta, and Toronto, and Columbus’s 12-year plan, oh and Florida’s rebuild to mediocrity.

And St. Louis finally made the playoffs for the first time since Quenneville left!

/pessimism!

The 2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Slumpbusters

by Jibblescribbits on Jul 13, 2009 12:49 PM MDT reply actions  

It’s not a rebuild if it’s not successful, the way I look at it.

Go Avs! Let's get some goals!

by Joe Dunman on Jul 13, 2009 12:58 PM MDT up reply actions  

Well

I think everyone assumes it will be, and then points to cases like the two you mentioned.

There’s no guarantee it will be. I hope everyone remembers that.

The 2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Slumpbusters

by Jibblescribbits on Jul 13, 2009 1:05 PM MDT up reply actions  

There’s definitely a risk that the team will be stuck in suckitude like Phoenix, Toronto or the Islanders. But if Columbus can finally make the playoffs after years and years of being terrible, the mighty Colorado Avalanche should be able to pull things together. I hope.

Go Avs! Let's get some goals!

by Joe Dunman on Jul 13, 2009 1:14 PM MDT up reply actions  

Pretty much my exact thoughts. You know that it is possible to rebuild like Anaheim, Carolina, New Jersey or even Calgary. That (and value) were the reasons the Smyth trade pissed me off so bad.

by Dario on Jul 13, 2009 3:03 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

After the Anderson signing

and before the Smyth trade, I was holding out a little bit of hope that the rebuilding process would be a little less painful. The Smyth deal certainly signalled a full-out rebuilding mode. I think this season will be painful, and the Avs will have a legitimate shot at the top pick in the draft next year (maybe they could be stupid like the Broncos and trade it for a 2nd rounder this season?). Next year? Less pain as we see more from the kids, a few bad contracts come off of the books, but still quite a bit of pain (no playoffs, that is almost certain).

I think by year 3, given some of the kids coming up, especially on D, and the obvious committment to the rebuild, I think we finally see hope. Maybe even a lower playoff spot. A wild card in all of this is how much financially Stan will eventually commit to the rebuild. It will be tough …. attendance this coming year could be brutal, especially given the mostly insane ticket prices the Avs still charge.

Our 2009-2010 Avs: The towel has been thrown into the rink.

by Bob in Boulder on Jul 13, 2009 12:52 PM MDT reply actions  

Yeah, it’s definitely not going to be pretty. But if the ‘Hawks are any indication of how low a team can get before reclaiming some old glory, the attendance woes won’t be the death of the franchise. Two years ago you could hear crickets in the upper levels of the United Center. Now you can’t find an open seat all season.

Go Avs! Let's get some goals!

by Joe Dunman on Jul 13, 2009 1:00 PM MDT up reply actions  

I don't agree our rebuild will be like the Pens or the Hawks

Those teams had barren systems before starting their rebuilds. We, on the other hand, have a pretty solid if unspectacular one at forward and a really good one on D (our goaltending sucks). We’ve been replenishing the mid-level prospects in our system for years while we’ve toiled in mediocrity, and that’s starting to pay off now at forward and will start to on D next year. It was FG’s greatest legacy — he pretty much refused to let our pipeline get compromised as he tried to maintain competitiveness.

We don’t have to wait 5 years for our Whitney, Letang and Scuds, or our Barker and Seabrook. They’re already coming in Shattenkirk, Gaunce, Williams, Cumiskey, Quincey and all the rest. We’ve already got a lot of solid forward talent working it’s way in. Plus we had a nice piece of luck in finding Stastny earlier, another accelerant.

I expect us to suck hard this year, pull another top flight prospect, and be on the road to recovery the next, with the playoffs a reality the year after that.

by thedoctor on Jul 13, 2009 1:06 PM MDT reply actions  

and...

the question of whther we become a contender again will depend on a random hit of a star in the goalies we currently have, or PL’s ability to find one via trade.

by thedoctor on Jul 13, 2009 1:08 PM MDT up reply actions  

I didn’t necessarily say the Avs’ rebuild WOULD be like the ’Hawks or Pens. I just wanted to cite a couple of bold, recent examples of successful rebuilds by teams that were as bad (or worse) than the Avs were last season.

For all I know, Colorado could turn this around in two or three years.

Go Avs! Let's get some goals!

by Joe Dunman on Jul 13, 2009 1:16 PM MDT up reply actions  

ah, ok, I missed that.

I’d like to think that the Philly rebuild is closer — mediocrity, aging, one terrible year and then a speedy recovery.

by thedoctor on Jul 13, 2009 1:29 PM MDT up reply actions  

and hopefully we find a goalie :D

by thedoctor on Jul 13, 2009 1:29 PM MDT up reply actions  

I think Philadelphia was a pretty rare case. Most rebuilds seem to take a while. Anaheim took a while, as did Boston and Buffalo. While planning this post I considered doing several teams other than Pitt and Chicago, and most of them seemed to follow a similar pattern of four to five years down before a major resurgence.

Go Avs! Let's get some goals!

by Joe Dunman on Jul 13, 2009 2:32 PM MDT up reply actions  

I still can’t see Cumiskey making this team. Aside from skating his fundamentals are lacking in every other category.

by Avalangelist on Jul 13, 2009 1:08 PM MDT reply actions  

I don’t see it either, especially with the NHL-level depth we have. He’ll probably get a call up or 2, I hope, but I would be thrilled to see him get tons of playing time in LE.

that said, I’ve always felt Cumiskey’s defense is quite good for a guy his size. He’s obviously got the speed and puckhandling too. The things he needs to work on are shooting, passing, and decision making.

by thedoctor on Jul 13, 2009 1:10 PM MDT up reply actions  

Jibbled.

Go Avs! Let's get some goals!

by Joe Dunman on Jul 13, 2009 1:17 PM MDT up reply actions  

The avs can’t dress 10 defencemen?

by Dario on Jul 13, 2009 3:07 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

What a shock. I see Hannan, Liles and Salei gone by years end. Bring on the draft picks.

by wolski-08 on Jul 13, 2009 3:08 PM MDT up reply actions  

Welcome to the pen

I feel like I’m welcoming a cellmate back after his parole hearing went South. “So they wouldn’t let you out on good behavior after just one year, huh?”

We’re still learning the different ways this cycle can work in the salary cap world (and who knows what the CBA will look like next time? Or if the economy turns and the cap shoots up in 2-3 years?), but there has to be a route for teams other than the Pittsburgh Miraculous Draft Luck Route. And I think that example probably is in part reflected by Chicago: Build with prospects but use cash to goose the rebuild when the opportunity arises.

Obviously Chicago’s Brian Campbell signing was a bit overexuberant, but what tells me Colorado will be back sooner than later is that Kroenke has the cash to spend when the time is right to accelerate things. The Islanders don’t or won’t have that until their building is settled, so we wait in joyful hope for the coming of a bunch of young saviors.

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on Jul 13, 2009 1:32 PM MDT reply actions  

Campbell wasn’t cheap, for sure, but 52 points from a D-man is a nice return on any investment. He did what he was hired to do, that’s for sure.

Go Avs! Let's get some goals!

by Joe Dunman on Jul 13, 2009 2:26 PM MDT up reply actions  

Agreed, although for that money I’d want points and a good defender.

But it’s more the length that stunned me. It’s one thing to pay the premium for a guy in his prime; but to pretend he’ll produce like that (or to pay him as if he will) well past his prime is typical short-term GM thinking.

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on Jul 14, 2009 9:55 AM MDT up reply actions  

Pittsburgh is the more applicable case to the Islanders. The Pens weren’t so much rebuilding as shedding salary like crazy to survive until they could fund a new arena. Except they were lucky enough to stumble upon some serious talent with those high draft picks. Come to think of it, that sounds an awful lot like the Quebec/Colorado case.

by Inebriated Simian Miscreants on Jul 13, 2009 2:42 PM MDT up reply actions  

Quebec was definitely in the right place at the right time. And honestly, the Lindros and Roy situations were both so ridiculously unpredictable and luck-based that even Colorado’s own past rebuild isn’t a very good model for its current one.

Go Avs! Let's get some goals!

by Joe Dunman on Jul 13, 2009 2:56 PM MDT up reply actions  

It’s funny, I mean every franchise needs a good bit of luck on top of sound strategy to make it over the top.

Hell, we may look back at the Islanders as unlucky (again) because they won the lottery this time in a year when any of the top 3 (top 5? top 7?) picks would be great, and then they’ll pick 2nd or 3rd or something the year that the next “generational” star comes around.

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on Jul 14, 2009 9:57 AM MDT up reply actions  

Just thought I would point out that Evgeni Malkin was not first overall, he was second behind Alex Ovechkin.

by the_rudiment on Jul 13, 2009 1:33 PM MDT reply actions  

Too bad the Avs didn't completely tank that year

because then they would have their LW.

Colorado Avalanche: Please excuse the mess while we are under construction.

by hockeymom on Jul 13, 2009 1:39 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yep. Good eye. Thanks.

Go Avs! Let's get some goals!

by Joe Dunman on Jul 13, 2009 2:22 PM MDT up reply actions  

the scary thing about Chicago

they haven’t won anything yet and we’re already talking about how they’ll find a way to re-sign Kane and Toews.

Hyphens cause writers more trouble than any other form of punctuation, except perhaps commas.

by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jul 13, 2009 2:07 PM MDT reply actions  

their rebuild was too spread out.

by thedoctor on Jul 13, 2009 2:17 PM MDT up reply actions  

and crippled by Tallon’s druken sailor spending last offseason and this.

Even PL came to realize (before the cap) that throwing money at a problem doesn’t make it go away.

2009-2010 Colorado Avalanche - "Hey Brother, can you spare a Left Winger?"

by Hopfenkopf on Jul 13, 2009 2:26 PM MDT up reply actions  

Unless we’re talking about sex assault civil suits.

Go Avs! Let's get some goals!

by Joe Dunman on Jul 13, 2009 2:57 PM MDT up reply actions  

or charges against pedophile pop stars

by jd21 on Jul 13, 2009 3:17 PM MDT up reply actions  

It’s going to happen. If the Pens can hold on to both Crosby and Malkin, Chicago will find a way to hold on to Kane and Toews. Or their GM will be fired.

Go Avs! Let's get some goals!

by Joe Dunman on Jul 13, 2009 2:23 PM MDT up reply actions  

Even with Hossa on board for 12 years, that is.

Go Avs! Let's get some goals!

by Joe Dunman on Jul 13, 2009 2:24 PM MDT up reply actions  

Oops, spoke too soon. Their GM was fired. Huh.

Go Avs! Let's get some goals!

by Joe Dunman on Jul 14, 2009 5:10 AM MDT up reply actions  

Yeah, like I said….screwed. Just imagine the Hawks as the 04 Avs, the have no room.

by Dario on Jul 14, 2009 7:17 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

But you know who does? That’s right, your 2010 Colorado Avalanche!!! It may one of, if not THE, best RFA opportunities in franchise history!

2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Dry Humping Mediocrity

by Mike @ MHH on Jul 14, 2009 12:35 PM MDT up reply actions  

Every time Darcy Tucker skates in an Avs sweater, just think about the extra cap space the Avs will have in 2010 because they didn’t buy him out, and think about the players the Avs might be able to sign. It doesn’t make the pain go away, but it helps a bit.

by Inebriated Simian Miscreants on Jul 14, 2009 2:50 PM MDT up reply actions  

The pain would almost entirely abate,

if the team had the stones to put him on waivers and he were picked up.

2009-2010 Colorado Avalanche - "Hey Brother, can you spare a Left Winger?"

by Hopfenkopf on Jul 14, 2009 3:21 PM MDT up reply actions  

My girlfriend’s answer after reading the headline to this post: “Not as long as the Pirates.”

by c0nquistad0rian on Jul 13, 2009 4:20 PM MDT reply actions   1 recs

In what world did Miroslav Satan produce above expectations. He stunk all year.

Another thing that is a lot different than our situation and the Penguins, is that the Penguins awfulness was not brought on by a desire to re-build, but by the need to shed salaries because the team was going bankrupt. This is why they came relatively close to moving. I don’t think the Avs are suffering from this. And their re-build pretty much ended after the lock-out. Craig Patrick signed every over the hill free-agent under the sun that off-season, not something an actual re-building team would do. They were awful that year though, so I guess they could still be considered rebuilding. But by 2006 they were off and running.

And while Kroenke may have his flaws as an owner, he’s nowhere near Dollar Bill Wirtz’s level of cheapness.

by chileiceman on Jul 13, 2009 7:10 PM MDT reply actions  

NHL network did a two-day tribute to Sakic this past weekend, showing a bunch of shows about the ‘96 and ’01 Cup runs. And although the current roster and its potential gives me a warmer, fuzzier feeling than I had at the end of last season, I can’t help but feel we’ve got a long, long way to go to get back to that kind of talent and dominance. As much as I don’t want to admit it, it is going to be an extended, painful road to recovery, folks, and our team will Darcy-Tucker-it for at least a few years, probably more like 6-7. I so hope I’m wrong, but I’m just sayin…

Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try. - Yoda

by BeachNSnowGirl on Jul 13, 2009 10:28 PM MDT reply actions  

Darcy-Tucker it… don’t say that.. it hurts so much more. I hope some stupid team wants him by March. I would trade him for a bag of pucks at this point. If we could get a player back that would be even more benefitical.

I miss Dan Hinote…

by wolski-08 on Jul 13, 2009 11:08 PM MDT up reply actions  

3-5 years

the reason it took Chicago and Pitt so long is due to some less than stellar drafting for a few years in the beginning. Then around year 5 they start to aquire new superstars to start playing in the NHL. If they had come across their dynamic duos earlier in their rebuilds they may not have gone so long before returning to the elite. With the strong depth of D prospects and a few forwards who could surprise… all that is needed is for Stastny and Duchene to be our dynamic duo for us to get back to the best of the league. And then a top 10 goalie would give us another cup rather than just a really good team (like Philly). So thankfully we have already done some drafting the prior 4-5 years and may be entering a new age of excellence as early as 2010-11 (especially with another top draft pick). As for the Columbus, Atlanta, Toronto, NY Islanders, etc… they just can’t seem to find that second premiere NHL forward let alone turn their later draft picks into something of use. Columbus looks to finally be headed in the right direction. Then we have Detroit who just did extremely good at drafting their new duo in Z and Dats in the later rounds to avoid the rebuild a few years back.

by zandar on Jul 14, 2009 7:25 PM MDT reply actions  

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