Ryan Smyth Shocker
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jul 3, 2009 9:44 PM MDT
in NHL News
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PrintI'm just coming back from a local baseball game and 4th of July fireworks (a night early because that's how my town rolls). I'm still stewing about the geriatric asshole with Florida plates who was in such an urgent rush to get home to his Matlock reruns that he refused to let me merge. You know the type - you get position, you throw up the friendly wave...and then he moves his bloated white SUV to an inch away from your car door. Fucking clown. A few miles later I run into the dumbass in a Jeep who has an urgent need to pull out in front of me so that he can drive 20 mph under the speed limit.
So, I'm already a little wound up as it is. Imagine my utter joy to find that the Avalanche have traded their best and most consistent player last year, someone who plays a position (LW) that is a gaping hole for the team, and they've traded him to the Kings for two meh defensemen (Tom Preissing and Kyle Quincey) and a 5th round pick.
That's. Just. Fucking. Swell.
Okay, Preissing has some offensive ability...although he's only topped 40 points in his career once. Quincey is also supposed to be okay offensively (Detroit must not have thought so, because they waived him last year). This means we now have, approximately, a shitload of so-so defensemen and surely someone from our D is going to be moved. Soon. But there is no way, no way at all, that we are in any way a better team after this move than in one, single area - our financial bottom line. This move cuts $2.95 million off of our salary cap and gets Smyth's remaining 3 years off of the books. Super.
Look, we knew there was a strong chance that Captain Canada would be traded. I guess I just expected we'd actually try and get something back in return. Silly me.
That's all the whining you'll get out of me tonight - I heard a rumor that Matlock is about to start.
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God Dammit!
Guss we have start campaigning for Hall in 2010.
What should the slogan be?
2008-2009 Avalanche: It's like watching a car crash.
The sky...
…isn’t falling.
I think 09-10 is a year all Avs fans would be better served just writing off right now, let Sherman (and The Ego!) move some of Giguere’s mistakes (Tucker, Hannan, Clark, looking at you three), and looking for silver linings. Call me a pie-eyed optimist, but I see this team on the right track in two or three years.
Above Average.
I get that they are trying to clean the slate and bring in their own players. I just think they are letting too many assets go for nothing or for not enough return.
Hyphens cause writers more trouble than any other form of punctuation, except perhaps commas.
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jul 3, 2009 9:52 PM MDT up reply actions
in other words, I’m not upset that Smyth has been traded, although I will sorely miss watching him play. I just think the return is underwhelming.
Hyphens cause writers more trouble than any other form of punctuation, except perhaps commas.
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jul 3, 2009 9:53 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm upset
I loved watching Smyth play, he was yet another of the few leaders on this team.
AND, we got nothing in return…
by From the Point on Jul 3, 2009 10:02 PM MDT up reply actions
I think his age and his cap hit dictated less of a return than we’d have expected. Quincey at least has some promise (I mean, it’s not like Detroit waived him in order to keep 92 year old Chris Chelios…ah, forget that example). Preissing and Quincey will probably fit in very well with what the team is trying to do, which is strip down to bare essentials, stink this year, take a crack at the Taylor Hall sweepstakes, and get active in the free agent market next season.
Above Average.
Frees up a lot of cash.
Hockey... The most favoritest sport of Jesus.
by Pinchy The Lobster on Jul 3, 2009 10:36 PM MDT up reply actions
cash they are probably going to keep…?
by From the Point on Jul 3, 2009 10:40 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah
But Smytty wasn’t the weakest link in FG’s career. (ahem* Tucker, Raycroft, Clark, etc.)
Smytty played very well on a shitacular team.
I honestly liked him.
Also what DDC said, we pretty much got nothing in return.
2008-2009 Avalanche: It's like watching a car crash.
Yes
Hockey... The most favoritest sport of Jesus.
by Pinchy The Lobster on Jul 3, 2009 10:34 PM MDT up reply actions
Not like LA is going to be that great either...
by From the Point on Jul 3, 2009 10:35 PM MDT up reply actions
well not now
but compared to the rest of the league, no.
by From the Point on Jul 3, 2009 10:39 PM MDT up reply actions
Well,
The way I see it is, Duh, who wouldn’t want off this rollercoaster of clusterfuck. . And that speaks volumes. When a guy who gives his all is willing to be traded to a team that has never really been all that good, don’t you have to sit back and self examine a little bit? I mean really, the guy would rather play for the fricking KINGS? The sky may not be falling, but we’re in trouble.
Get rid of the loser point
08-09 Avs- can we decline the penalty?
Unfortunately
the Kings were better than we were last season and have slowly been improving….
MHH: Like the Avs organization, we’ve now officially lost our minds.
I'm The Canary - but I'm not cute nor cuddly, and I don't sing.
I'm with TheRed on this...
The Kings have been getting better about as long as the Sharks have been losing in the second round. No reason to expect much more.
Smyth has probably been well aware that the Avs have wanted to trade him for months, eventually anywhere looks better than the place that doesn’t want you.
A guy like Smyth should have ended up at a better team, except for that salary, only the crappy teams have the room, so he probably just had to choose between crappy teams.
Besides, better than the Avs isn’t saying much…right?
by From the Point on Jul 4, 2009 8:19 AM MDT up reply actions
I'm suprised you would say that
Two decent young defensmen that aren’t being paid much is worth about the same as 1 hightly paid, high scoring winger in today’s NHL. Also, throw in a 5th rounder as a bonus. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not super happy to see Ryan go but I think the trade is fair. Also, I can wait to see who they’ll move on the blueline to make room.
Preissing is actually a bit overpaid.
Quincey represents every strength the Avs have in their prospect pool.
Smyth is a top tier proven scoring forward who on many nights if not most nights was the best Avalanche player. If the Avalanche presented any kind of threat from the point or on the power play he would be even better.
It’s a clear message that the Avs aren’t interested in competing next year, it’s a clear sign they want to cut costs. Never, ever have the Avalanche been frugal and flirted with the NHL escrow fund. It’s a horrible, and unbelievable trend in my mind. The horror of what this and the free agency signings represent is the philisophical seppuku of being the best they can be.
You’re right, Preissing does seem to be overpaid at 2.750M a year. However, if he brings in the same scoring that he brought to the Shark and the Senators, it may be justified.
I agree that it does seem more like next year they don’t plan on doing much in the way of winning. Hopefully they will go after Tanguay now that they have some extra dough.
Preissing
Was so horrible with the Kings last season that he was often a healthy scratch and actually was sent down to the minors for a while. He isn’t just overpaid. He’s Tucker overpaid. Jesus this is a horrible deal. Not only was it a pure salary dump, they managed to receive yet another bad D-man salary in return.
MHH: Shagging Dater one contributor at a time.
by Bob in Boulder on Jul 4, 2009 12:12 PM MDT up reply actions
That's a pretty bold statement
I think any defensemen that has the potential to put up 40 points in a season is far from shit. The Avs highest scoring defensemen put up 39 points last season, does that make Liles shit as well?
Brett Clark has that potential. And last year he was shit.
Hyphens cause writers more trouble than any other form of punctuation, except perhaps commas.
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jul 4, 2009 7:24 AM MDT up reply actions
I’m sure glad guys like you don’t run the team. If you don’t go after guys with potential who would you go after.
If we ran the team
we would have at least gotten a LW out of the deal and not ANOTHER 2 d-men with “potential”.
As of right now we don’t have a LW for either the 1st or 2nd lines. Ok if you move Wolski back to LW then we have one. And I would say moving Wolski is dependent on whether Sakic comes back or Duchene is ready, other wise who plays 2nd line center?
I like Stewie, but I don’t know if he’s 2nd line material yet….oh well he has potential.
MHH: Like the Avs organization, we’ve now officially lost our minds.
I'm The Canary - but I'm not cute nor cuddly, and I don't sing.
My point wasn’t that I love this trade but that Priessing is not a shit defender. As a matter of fact, any player who has made it to the NHL has proven they are at least 100 times better than any of us posting on this blog.
To your argument, don’t forget that there are likely two forward rookies coming up this year. However, I’m not against going after another forward and I think we could now get that by signing Tanguay or trading a vet defender. We have now have replacements for the vets. L.A. needed a winger so why would they want to give one up. Now that we have too many defenders, it’s time to look for a team with that need (Tampa) and we may get a new forward or two. Just don’t be too suprised if they are up-and-comers because that’s our need. We need somebody to build around Duchene and Statsny, not a vet that may not be around in 3 years.
The summer is still early and they aren’t going to get everything done this week.
As a matter of fact, any player who has made it to the NHL has proven they are at least 100 times better than any of us posting on this blog.
This is where I stopped reading.
Go Avs! Let's get some goals!
Well yeah
Of course they are better players than us, but they’re not competing with us for jobs, or for wins.
Measuring them against the average person isn’t the point. Creed are much better musicians than me, but they still suck.
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 4, 2009 10:40 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
OK, it’s not fair to compare us to NHL players but it’s also not fair to say that Preissing is a shit player and there is nothing decent about him. If you’re (not you) going to make a statement like this, at least back it up with something.
Joe, no offense to your hockey skills, I’m sure you’re a good player and maybe NHL players being 100 times better is a bit of an exaggeration.
We can’t compare ourselves to hockey players, but we can compare other hockey players and on paper, this deal is garbage. Until the Avs do something in response to this trade, it is absolute garbage and not even necessary.
by Avalanche318 on Jul 4, 2009 11:13 AM MDT up reply actions
Your love affair with Preissing is commendable given the amount of lube used on Budaj here over the last season, however, your boy is suffering from vertigo at last count and was soooooo much better than other NHL players that he was sent down to the AHL at one point last year. So in fact, LA thought that they had at least 23 other players who were better NHL players than him. The reality is the Quincy is likely the asset coming the other way in this trade, not Preissing.
2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Dry Humping Mediocrity
You should read my post a little more carefully. I didn’t say that he was a great player or that I loved him. However, I think it’s ignorance to say that he is a shit player and there is nothing decent about him. True, he hasn’t played well enough to be a full timer on a deep Kings roster. He has shown that he can put up a 40 point season for certain teams and I don’t see why we should say that there is no way he can do it again. Obviously the Avs, who are professional at this, thought that he had some potential. And if you’re a fan of the Avs, maybe you should recognize that they know a lot more about this than we do. Or we can just complain about everything that happens, bitch about all the new players and cry because the players that couldn’t get it done last year are leaving.
Obviously the Avs, who are supposed to be professional at this, thought that he had some potential. And if you’re a fan of the Avs, maybe you should recognize that they think that they know a lot more about this than we do but have yet to provide conclusive evidence to that effect. Or we can just complain about everything stupid that happens, bitch about all the new players with the exception of all the draft picks and 50% of their free agent signings and cry because the players that couldn’t get it done despite leading the team in scoring and being one of the few who actually tried night in and night out last year are leaving.
Fixed.
just sayin’
Actually I think in return for taking Smyths contract, The King’s made the Avs take Preissing’s. He has a year less on his contract and makes 1/3 of Smyth. From a salary dump point of view that’s the return. I’d imagine him being in the deal has everything to do with contract, and little to do with his playing ability.
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 4, 2009 2:03 PM MDT up reply actions
After all that, I least I finally got a well-thought-out intelligent response. Thanks for that.
You make a good point but I still think that there is a potential upside given that he has performed in the past, for teams other than L.A. I’m not going to judge him until I see him play for the Avs.
There’s some potential, but not a lot. The guy had vertigo. That’s not something that’s fixed all that easy.
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 4, 2009 2:19 PM MDT up reply actions
I don’t know much about vertigo but don’t they have to pass the physical before the trade is complete?
Health issues aside, Priessing stats were pretty good even in his last two years. Take a look:
07/08: 77 games 8g 24 pts – That’s good for second best defensemen on the Avs this year.
08/09: 22 games 3g 4 pts – That’s on pace for 12g 28 pts in the season. Only Liles would have more points on the blue line and they would be tied for goals.
So, I think we agree that there is some potential but I’m more on the optimistic side at this point.
I would love to see him come out and prove everybody wrong.
Vertigo
If i understand it fully it comes and goes. It’s one of the more mysterious ailments there is. He may be fine one day and a mess for the next 6 months the next, and it’s really unpredictable.
Also I’m under the impression he’s one-dimensional. I don’t think he’s very good in his own zone.
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 5, 2009 9:35 PM MDT up reply actions
I think that this is really the point: the Avs HAD to dump salary (according to Dater), and maybe this was the only trade they could come up with. Selling a 6.125mil$ contract in this market when the player has a no-trade clause has got to be a difficult thing. Maybe Ryan only wanted to go to certain teams, and would refuse any other offer; that put us over the barrel, and LA knew it.
I’m not happy about this trade because I think we got hosed, but its not Sherman’s doing, its Kronke’s interference in the team.
Sippin' PBR on a Colorado game day...
Easy, we’re just talking what-ifs/what-could-be’s here. I was making an attempt at humor (by saying he was your boy), which if you’ve read any of my posts in the past, is the norm.
My inelegant comment was more along the lines of while we’re all to stupid to recognize NHL talent, at some point last year, LA considered him less than NHL talent, which is the antithesis of the argument you’ve been making. That and I think Quincey and a pick was what the Avs were after. I bet they lost a round or two for the pick and had to take Preissing to make the deal work for LA.
2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Dry Humping Mediocrity
Or we can just complain about everything that happens, bitch about all the new players and cry because the players that couldn’t get it done last year are leaving.
I know this is a somewhat popular stance to take regarding MHH, that we only complain and never look at the bright side, but I think we’re almost 100% behind the Budaj re-signing, the Anderson signing, the release of Arny, and in general, the rebuild effort. Some of us are probably smart enough to realize that moving Tucker is a pipe dream and that no team is horrible-contract-free, so we have to live with Clark/Hannan.
But I will continue to bitch about European signings that never get a shot, younger players who play as good as or better than established players who never get a crack at the NHL, an AHL affiliate with ZERO goalies on the roster, and a going-on-6 year track record of unbalanced trades.
2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Dry Humping Mediocrity
Bummer
Smyth was my favorite player to watch last year, so this is a big let down. But I understand the move. I’m actually a big fan of Preissing — nowhere close to an even trade, but I’m happy to have him on the team. There was a ton of hype surrounding him coming from CC to play for the Sharks, and he lived up to it, at least briefly.
Still, it sucks to come to grips with supporting a team that’s officially in rebuilding mode.
Preissing’s had a terrible career since then. He lasted one year in Ottawa, and wasn’t retained after most people agreed that he (and Corvo) couldn’t keep up with the Ducks in the finals. By the time this trade happened, he was a healthy scratch in Los Angeles and was at risk of being buried in Manchester. Quincey sounds like he could be okay.
But seriously, the management here does know that you need forwards, right? You can’t just throw 5 T.J.’s out there and expect to get to a shootout.
by Ryan Classic on Jul 3, 2009 10:45 PM MDT up reply actions
We'll miss Smyth but I don't think we are getting two meh defensemen
Even though Quincy was not considered a rookie this year, he only had 13 games under his belt before 2008/09. With that, he outscored his teammate, Drew Doughty and all NHL rookie defensemen this year by 11 points. Preissling is a little more hard to judge. However, his 52 points in a season for a D-man int he NCAA is impressive. Also his last couple years before L.A. were pretty good with 43 and 38 points. I’m guessing that his ice time was limited in L.A. because of deep young talent.
So we must be ready to move 1-2 of our veteran D-men to make room. That sounds good to me.
This should motivate Sakic to return.
I don’t like the deal because it’s a clear indicator that the Avs are cutting costs. Every single deal has been made in relation to finances. You hire the Accountant as the GM. You get the least expensive parts you can find in free agency. You let Lappy go over $ because you won’t buy out Tucker. Prior to the salary cap the Avs spent to the self imposed cap of around 60 million. They would pay Sakic, Blake and Forsberg over 9 million each. That was up to ten to twelve years ago! Now? Now ownership is looking to apparently keep salaries to a bottom tiered market. That’s just fucking great. I’m as frustrated as I’ve ever been as an Avalanche fan if this is the salary structure they carry in to the year.
Sakic, sarcasm I presume...
Yeah, I don’t know why he would come back to this even messier, mess…
by From the Point on Jul 3, 2009 10:34 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't necessarily have a problem with it
So long as they’re willing to lower ticket costs. Even a little cut would be nice. That won’t happen, but it should.
Really, though, after the way that this season went, there’s no real reason to believe that the team will be good next year if they were constructed in the same way. Why would the owner want to pay max dollars for a bad product? It makes sense. Financial moves don’t bother me if the team isn’t in a position to succeed.
Now, if it was like the Rockies, where they make financial moves (or lack thereof) with a team coming off a World Series, then you have a problem. I still refuse to believe that with Kroenke, though. I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now based on his ownership up to this point.
"Horton is win."
--Horvil Tiki
Oh good god.
The Rockies are a bad example. So many people just don’t understand the Monforts HAVE spent money. Just because they aren’t spending $130 million to keep an already in his prime LEFT FIELDER doesn’t mean they don’t spend money. It means they’ve learned what the weight of a big money, long-term contract can do (see: Helton, Todd).
Find a better example.
If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding! HOW can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?!
by A.J. Haefele on Jul 3, 2009 11:36 PM MDT up reply actions
I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying
I realize that the Monforts and previous ownership groups/individuals have spent money. It doesn’t take much research to see that, what with the contracts for Walker, Hampton, Neagle, Helton, et. al. They aren’t nearly the worst owners, and they aren’t nearly the best. I also wasn’t upset with the Holliday trade. I loved the guy, but I didn’t see it as a penny-pinching move at all, particularly after offering him a sizeable extension a year ago.
I am talking specifically about the offseason between the 2007 World Series and the 2008 season, when the team did absolutely nothing to improve itself other than signing an over-the-hill RIGHT HANDED relief pitcher with a lot of miles on him that had already shown signs of having an empty gas tank.
When the team won’t spend that little extra dollar to improve a good team, then there’s a problem, and that’s what I was referring to. I do think that they learned the lesson that you can’t stand pat, and Kroenke knows that as well. He just knows it better.
"Horton is win."
--Horvil Tiki
They got where they were
by grooming their own players and sticking to their philosophy. It worked then (one could argue it’s working again right now), and I don’t at all blame them for not making many moves. Who would you have signed to replace Tulo’s regression, or Francis falling completely off the planet, or Torrealba coming back down to Earth? How would you have improved that team with that free agency pool while sticking to the philosophy that got them there in the first place lol?
I realize this isn’t the place for this particular discussion, I still just don’t see what you’re expecting.
If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding! HOW can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?!
I'm talking about that one last piece for a championship team
I realize that the Rox wouldn’t have been last year, but they didn’t even try. The Nuggets cut payroll, but they got better. Good teams should never just stand pat. That doesn’t mean a major move, but good teams should use free agency to address needs, and bad teams should build through the draft, in my view. Continue to use the draft, but don’t ever expect a rookie to be that one last piece.
Right now, the Avs are a bad team, so they should first commit to building through the draft. If that means shedding salary, then so be it.
"Horton is win."
--Horvil Tiki
I don’t necessarily have a problem with it. So long as they’re willing to lower ticket costs. Even a little cut would be nice. That won’t happen, but it should.
I think you’re defeating your own argument here.
Get rid of the loser point
08-09 Avs- can we decline the penalty?
I know
In a perfect world, that’s what would happen, but the world’s not perfect. I still don’t have much of a problem with dumping salary from a bad team. Perhaps I should have left that out.
Then again, just to play devil’s advocate, if we, the fans, desire to have the premier on-ice product in the NHL, shouldn’t we be willing to do whatever we can to help make that happen, including pay higher-than-average prices for tickets?
"Horton is win."
--Horvil Tiki
Tickets Prices
were announced months ago and are staying the same.
by From the Point on Jul 4, 2009 8:22 AM MDT up reply actions
Then again, just to play devil’s advocate, if we, the fans, desire to have the premier on-ice product in the NHL, shouldn’t we be willing to do whatever we can to help make that happen, including pay higher-than-average prices for tickets?
Until they can show that higher $$ equals a better team, no. And so far since the lockout they have shown me they are not capable of putting together a “competitive product”, despite the run they made 2 years ago. Kroenke has boatloads of cash. I’m not giving him more to watch crap, especially since I don’t have much and can just watch on TV.
Get rid of the loser point
08-09 Avs- can we decline the penalty?
Where
Did you find a copy of their new master plan? Only it needs a pic of their fan based beneath the pile.
MHH: Shagging Dater one contributor at a time.
by Bob in Boulder on Jul 4, 2009 12:16 PM MDT up reply actions
This move lends a great deal of credence to the Tanguay rumours.
When I saw the trade on TSN, they didn’t have the other end of the trade. Two things occurred to me – 1)PLEASE GET FROLOV and 2) If we don’t get Frolov, this is a salary dump move. God Bless Alice. He brought it every night and played very well when only a of handful of others did.
If, as mcarson01 intimates above, this move results in us cutting some of the dead wood in the Defense (Clark) maybe swap Hannan for a nice LW (Klingenberg [Hi Mike!]), I can get behind it. If it’s simply a salary dump for pieces that we already have in abundance, then this is crap.
What’s a forward?
Apparently both Preissing and Quincey have to pass a physical. Quincey just had major back surgery, and Preissing was out with vertigo.
I’m sure that last one’s going to do real well in Denver.
by Ryan Classic on Jul 3, 2009 10:54 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't know how he has vertigo
…a piano could stand on those legs
I just want Drury back... I recognize the Drury->Morris->Statsny chain, and I stick with the statement.
You know
If the Avs were saying “We want to get younger and build through the draft” I’d be able to swallow this.
But an owner just randomly cutting salary because of 1 bad year (after 14 very profitable ones) is really tough to take.
I thought about trying to convince my folks about splitting season tix… I’m not very sure I want to now. Why should I pay good money for a product when the Owner is just going to nickel and dime me?
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 3, 2009 10:57 PM MDT reply actions
Yeah, I thought the Avs would have been smart to lower tickets prices, even just a little after last season. And now this. Whew…
by From the Point on Jul 3, 2009 10:59 PM MDT up reply actions
and say hello to your super skilled linemates, Darcy Tucker and Tom Fritsche.
Hyphens cause writers more trouble than any other form of punctuation, except perhaps commas.
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jul 4, 2009 7:28 AM MDT up reply actions
Cable
Is much cheaper. Plus, you can turn it off and get drunk when it starts to disgust you. I’m betting that will happen a lot this year.
Get rid of the loser point
08-09 Avs- can we decline the penalty?
I wonder what the long term plan is? They must have some year in mind when they think they can compete for the cup again. Two years, three years out. Everthing they do right now should build up to that in some way.
Addition by subtraction
I love Smitty, but by freeing up his salary room, aren’t we now able to go after some free agent wingers (….assuming there are some left)? Wasn’t that the key point here – that for a team clearly in rebuilding mode, you see an opportunity to get rid of salary and you do it, even if it is a long-term move?
In protest of adulthood
That certainly puts a damper on things
I don’t like the idea of reverting to a bottom feeding team.
Now we’re going to be TankFor2010?
Hey look at that – Ti4T (Tank it for Ten/Twenty-ten) all over again!
In protest of adulthood
6-76-0
It’s going to be a long, long, long year. But at least we have Hejduk. Guaranteed six wins against Vancouver.
by Ryan Classic on Jul 3, 2009 11:39 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ah, but each goal
is worth a beer. Hejduk and Wolski won me a bet or two last year in this city.
Could’ve been at least 9-73, but Arnason signed with Hartford.
by Ryan Classic on Jul 3, 2009 11:54 PM MDT up reply actions
hah
I love living in Vancouver–in our worst year in decades, we still mop the ice with the Canucks and the bulletproof netminder (who looks suspiciously like a greasy Italian creeper)
I just want Drury back... I recognize the Drury->Morris->Statsny chain, and I stick with the statement.
WHAT THE F IS THIS!?!?!?
I’m not happy. I don’t think this was a sacrifice that needed to be made.
Worse yet, for Smyth to waive his NTC (when he had previously stated that he was happy in Denver) inspires no confidence that the FO is treating players well. So much for being able to attract top talent.
Ti4FoH indeed.
One down, three to go
by FiveJeffFingerDiscount on Jul 3, 2009 11:07 PM MDT reply actions
Treating players well?????
After what they did to Lappy? Are you kidding?
Get rid of the loser point
08-09 Avs- can we decline the penalty?
Holy shit
this is a terrible deal, at least on initial reaction. Maybe it’ll be better in 2 years or something, but right now, wow.
If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding! HOW can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?!
by A.J. Haefele on Jul 3, 2009 11:09 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
hold judgment
While I agree this looks like a pretty crappy haul for Smyth, I’d say we should reserve a bit of judgment. I assume this move means we will be trading 1 or maybe two of Salei/Hannan/Liles and hopefully getting some forwards in exchange, maybe signing some other forwards.
That statistical anaylsis of salaries I did...
Quincey was the best deal in the NHL last year. His stats had him at a predicted $3.7million last season when he only made $525k. Granted, he’s only got one more year left at that salary, and will certainly command more after next year if he keeps performing.
I think it’s time to accept that it looks like the Avs are going the way of the Penguins. We’re going to suffer through a few bad seasons and hopefully some good high 1st round draft picks rebuild the team.
Overall I’m VERY unhappy with this trade. I wish we’d cleared up this cap space when Havlat was still available.
by Naming my first dog Foppa on Jul 4, 2009 12:31 AM MDT reply actions
Maybe Quincey and Preissing will play forward...
According to Behind the Net Quincey and Preissing had the best corsi numbers (corsi being the difference between shots on net for and against) on the LA team (except for Trevor Lewis who only played 5 games) at + 9.9 and + 10.4 respectively.
The average corsi of the LA team (only including people that have played over 20 games) is + .14
Granted Preissing played against the 2nd weakest competition of anyone in the LA team (only in front of Avs favourite John Zeiler) – but Quincey played against quality of competition that in combination with his other stats casts him as a good 2nd pairing defenseman with the possibility of being a first pairing defender (he is only 23)
And who were the highest on the Avs?
Statsny, Smyth and Tjarnqvist at -.6, + .9 and + 1.1 respectively
The average corsi of the Avs (again only including people that played over 20 games) = – 6.5. This in not to say that Smyth is equal to Quincey (because clearly he is not).
Basically this is a really long way of stating that although this trade sucks so bad right now…hopefully in a couple of years things will be okay. Although I am probably still in denial about the whole thing…
well shit.
I’m not pleased with this. We didnt end up saving much money, and Smyth brought his A game every night. The kids may be good, or they may be crap, but I somehow doubt they will play with the heart Smytty had out there every night. Lead by example.
the hell with it.
Sippin' PBR on a Colorado game day...
Yowza…thanks for waking me up this way DDC. Best player the Avs had 2 years running, and he goes bye bye.
Want to shed some salary? You shoulda dumped Tucker during the buy out period, and gotten rid of Clarks sorry ass for a low draft pick or something.
Makes me not even want to buy Center Ice this year, and just follow the Blackhawks…but I’m a sucker so that probably won’t happen
yeah, well I made the unfortunate decision to check the news really quick last night, so I saw this bit of news last night.
I was rewarded with a long dream where I was watching the Avalanche make their July 1st moves, and they were either trading our players for guys I’ve never heard of (and giving away a 2nd round pick) or signing a player I’d never heard of it. It was depressing.
Hyphens cause writers more trouble than any other form of punctuation, except perhaps commas.
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jul 4, 2009 7:33 AM MDT up reply actions
I really want to think that this means that Sakic is coming back and they needed the cap space, but I have some serious doubts.
It really is ALL ABOUT LAPPY!
No, this actually makes me think that there’s NO WAY Sakic is coming back. Why would they trade a really good friend of his, and one of our best players, if he was?
by Rather Dashing on Jul 4, 2009 9:18 AM MDT up reply actions
"Hey Sherman, it's the 4th of July, let's go blow some stuff up!"
and let’s start with the Avs. I guess it isn’t that surprising since they have been trying to trade him since March. I love Smytty. He was one of only a handful of guys who played with passion last year. I will miss him.
I remember a long post here at MHH debating Smyth’s salary and the “price per nipple.” The whole agrument was that because we didn’t have a player who could shoot from the blueline, this handcuffed Smyth and thus his salary wasn’t being earned. Maybe that is what management looked at. I hope there is a greater plan going on here and that in the long run it will benefit the team.
So, is Salei next? Clark and Tucker are probably here to stay, because nobody wants those players or contracts.
I was wondering the other day whether Phoenix was going to be the worst team in the NHL. Now, I am not too sure. I was hoping next season would be less painful to watch than last. Now, I am not too sure.
Colorado Avalanche: Please excuse the mess while we are under construction.
yeah, one of the D has to be next (unless one of the new guys is out for a long time, which wouldn’t shock me). I’m thinking Hannan, even with the NTC.
and yeah, I do think Smyth waiving the NTC to go to LA is an extremely interesting aspect of the deal that I neglected to mention in my rage induced rant above. That does not sound like Smyth’s kind of town. He must really have wanted to leave. And if you recall some of his interviews late in the season, he certainly came across as a guy who was not happy to be here.
another interesting aspect would be the irony of the Avs finally trading for two guys who would be a terrific complement for Ryan Smyth…except that they get rid of Smyth in the deal.
Hyphens cause writers more trouble than any other form of punctuation, except perhaps commas.
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jul 4, 2009 7:39 AM MDT up reply actions
Trade Hannan
for a couple of 4th line forwards and a 6th round draft pick.
I agree with you about Smyth wanting to leave. I wish I could hear the conversations Hejduk must be having with his wife right now!! He said last year was like a nightmare that wouldn’t end. . .
Colorado Avalanche: Please excuse the mess while we are under construction.
I wish I could hear the conversations Hejduk must be having with his wife right now!! He said last year was like a nightmare that wouldn’t end. . .
You know how to curse in Czech? Cool!!! ;)
Earlier in the season Hejduk was rumored to be wanting to play another couple of years with the Avs…wonder if that will change. Or if the “Organization” would even offer him a contract?
MHH: Like the Avs organization, we’ve now officially lost our minds.
I'm The Canary - but I'm not cute nor cuddly, and I don't sing.
It's almost impossible
Trading Hannan, that is. His contract is so bad, so smelly, so odious, that even Glen Sather wouldn’t take it. His play over the past two seasons, but especially last year, has almost completely guaranteed he’ll have another minus season on a bad team. Seriously…who’s going to want Handbags at $4.5 million/year, which doesn’t even expire for 2 more years? The way he’s been playing, his next contract will have a nice 40-50% pay cut in it…and then he’ll be moveable.
by Dan Winkler on Jul 4, 2009 10:30 AM MDT up reply actions
That is why I think Salei or Liles are more likely to be traded, because they have some value to a team for what they are being paid.
Colorado Avalanche: Please excuse the mess while we are under construction.
Trading Liles would really go over well, too!
by From the Point on Jul 4, 2009 10:40 AM MDT up reply actions
Agreed
If their goal is to completely alienate the fanbase, trading him would do it.
Colorado Avalanche: Please excuse the mess while we are under construction.
If that happened Avs fans would not get to see Beachie stripping in the stand anymore…
On another note, why trade our best offensive d-man (4th in overall team scoring last season)? Not to mention he is the youngest of our top D-men at 28 (Clark 32, Hannan 30, Salei 34, Foote 37).
MHH: Like the Avs organization, we’ve now officially lost our minds.
I'm The Canary - but I'm not cute nor cuddly, and I don't sing.
by Americanario on Jul 4, 2009 12:04 PM MDT up reply actions
Cap List
as an FYI, I won’t have the cap info updated today, but I will be doing it tomorrow for sure (Sunday)
Hyphens cause writers more trouble than any other form of punctuation, except perhaps commas.
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jul 4, 2009 8:15 AM MDT reply actions
WTF is going on with this organization? OK you trade Smyth, fine, I’m not happy, but without a good point shot we were not using him properly anyway. But to trade him for two d-men, when we already have a roster full and then some is asinine. What is Scacco going to be able to do, shift 3 d-men and 2 forwards?
Someone needs to kick Kroenke in the nuts, because he’s letting his “management” do it to the fans.
MHH: Like the Avs organization, we’ve now officially lost our minds.
I'm The Canary - but I'm not cute nor cuddly, and I don't sing.
for once, we agree on something
Hyphens cause writers more trouble than any other form of punctuation, except perhaps commas.
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jul 4, 2009 9:00 AM MDT up reply actions
That’s nice to see every once in a while. Although, I guess the coversations would be pretty boring if we agreed all the time.
Or Excluding Zetterberg
MHH: Shagging Dater one contributor at a time.
by Bob in Boulder on Jul 4, 2009 12:14 PM MDT up reply actions
My first impression thoughts
This seemed to be an unbalanced trade from a “needs” standpoint. LA wins hands down in that department. They kept all of their coveted forward players/prospects, added a needed veteran presence to help steer some of their stable of young guns, get a guy complemented by their own D corps (unlike Smytty’s stay in Colorado), they sent arguably scraps back, and because they are nowhere near the cap, they don’t care about the $$ or term on Smyth’s contract.
Colorado lost a huge chunk of heart this offseason with the Lappy, Guite, and Smyth departures, the likelyhood of a Sakic retirement, and Forsberg looking more and more like the King’s horses and men can’t put him back together again.
So far, they appear to be 2 for 6-ish in my book this offseason. (Good marks on not fuckingup the Duchene pick, signing Anderson, not so high on the Lappy, Guite, McCormick, Smyth).
I’ve gotta believe in my heart of hearts that this is just step 1 of a two or three step process. The FO HAS to be looking at some forwards somewhere else and is planning on using our abundance of D as bait. The other worry is that the two former LA players are coming over because some of our young D prospects aren’t likely to live up to the hype after/if they move one of Salei/Hannan/Clark/Liles.
2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Dry Humping Mediocrity
Whatever they are planning
it better be good
by Avalanche318 on Jul 4, 2009 10:19 AM MDT up reply actions
That’s a good point about not having anybody to step in to replace our vet defenders. The only guys I can think of that may be ready would be Shattenkirk, Williams and Cuminsky. Shattenkirk is going back to BU, Williams is probably another year or two away and Cuminsky seems to be injured often. Because they brought in two NHL ready defenders, maybe they are looking to trade at least two vets.
I expect better conspiracy theories from you, Mike
I’ve gotta believe in my heart of hearts that this is just step 1 of a two or three step process.
That is, instead, just wishful thinking. ;-)
A 5th ROUNDER!!!!!
for one of the few players who drives the net every night, sacrifices his body for the team, and never makes excuses.
I guess the Shermanator is counting on another lottery finish.
Who wants to make a friendly wager we sign kovalev to some outlandish deal next.
Cool
When I looked at the depth chart this season, I was totally thinking we could use another couple of middle of the road defensemen, and that we were absolutely loaded at LW.
Great move! We now have at least 6 defenders good enough to play third line!
So I take a fucking break from this clusterfuck of an organization and they do this?
Didn’t know about it until I saw it in the Post this morning. WTF?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Ryan fucking Smyth for that? Worst trade I’ve seen, and there have been some doozies over the last several years. They trade him at the deadline he retrieves at least a 1st and a 3rd. And they get this??? Unreal. Conveniently, Kroenke shut things down at the Can for the holidays through Monday (a 4-day weekend). I can’t call to cancel my season tickets until Tuesday. And I think I’m going to. This is just fucked on so many levels. Heya Matty D …. rethinking that fist pump?
MHH: Shagging Dater one contributor at a time.
Off topic
but nicknames for Duchene? (playing off BiB’s Matty D)
Mad Matty ?
Mad Hatter ?
Probably not, but maybe they’ll give someone else inspiration….
MHH: Like the Avs organization, we’ve now officially lost our minds.
I'm The Canary - but I'm not cute nor cuddly, and I don't sing.
Skaduche
Like Kung-Fu Panda.
Hockey... The most favoritest sport of Jesus.
by Pinchy The Lobster on Jul 4, 2009 12:26 PM MDT up reply actions
Kings fans are pissed too
Quincey was a nice acquisition, and the Wings were pissed they screwed that up. You can have Pricey, though (LOLs.) The more I think of it, the Kings are stacked with developing talent, so it’s a decent trade for them, and you guys got some developing talent—if you can figure out how to get rid of Pricey for something else.
I do agree Quincey is a nicer pickup than most people realize. Not enough to make up for Smyth, but a decent player with potential.
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 4, 2009 2:04 PM MDT up reply actions
We need to get the salaries on the defensive line though
Paying way too much to some pretty mediocre players, who are jamming up the ranks so we can’t get a look at the kids.
by eltharion_doa on Jul 4, 2009 5:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Okay
If this is the first in a series of moves that would see Clark, Tucker, etc. traded then this may be a good move by the end of all the trades. However, I doubt the Avs are actually looking to do a partial fire sale and this trade on face value makes the Drury trade not look too shabby. (At least Morris was useful at times).
All I Have to Say is
WTF
An ounce of confidence can carry you a mile toward winning. Oh, and Red Wings suck.
I have to admit when I first heard about the Smyth trade I was furious. I couldn’t believe we’d let another heart and soul player go, but after cooling off I am actually coming to terms with this trade (still not thrilled about it). We are rebuilding right now and that sucks, but our team isn’t really in that bad of shape. We have duchene and stas as future (hopefully) stars and leaders of our team. We still have the duke. Wolski and Jones seem to be shaping up to be quality players. As frustrating as Svatos is he does put up points. I think Liles is shaping up to be a good leader and a good d-man. And Anderson seems to have a promising upside. As much as I loved the reunion tour of 07-08 i think that getting these new unproven players with potential is better than holding onto players who have been great in the past, but have passed their prime. Hopefully this will help us in the long run instead of the band-aids the avs management has done in the past.
All of these things are true.
My biggest issue is that if Joe isn’t coming back, I do want some veteran talent on the team to act as leadership. Its such a good motivator to have that on the ice and in the locker room. I was counting on Smyth to deliver that after they let Lappy go, but now..
I just assume that Joe is planning on coming back and he can provide that [he is the best, after all]. The kids are promising, but unproven, and still have a lot to learn. Having a competent coaching staff will certainly help, and setting in place a system that the kids can adhere to will help. But if we form like Voltron, somebody’s gotta be the head. Whom?
Sippin' PBR on a Colorado game day...
Nice Voltron reference. Wouldn’t Stastny be the new head? It seemed to be that he was the head of the late season charge two years back. He’s still fairly young so it would be nice to have somebody like Sakic around.
But which Voltron are we? The cool 5 lion Voltron or the less then cool 30 space ship Voltron?
MHH: Like the Avs organization, we’ve now officially lost our minds.
I'm The Canary - but I'm not cute nor cuddly, and I don't sing.
by Americanario on Jul 4, 2009 11:21 PM MDT up reply actions
See, don’t know that I can agree with your differentiation. I agree that there was a cool Voltron and a less than cool, but I believe that they’re reversed. The lions seemed far too much a grab at the Saturday morning cartoon androgynous 7 year old market to me. Especially the 10 year old girl pilot and the big fat guy.
But I digress…
But they were Lions, how can that not be cool?
The Savage has spoken. Let it be done
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by, and that has made all the difference"
R. Frost
True
but the Detroit prefix(atleast I think it’s a prefix, I may be the king of the world but I don’t have to have good spelling or grammar) negates any coolness the Lions have.
The Savage has spoken. Let it be done
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by, and that has made all the difference"
R. Frost
Been thinking....
The problem with having an accountant run the team is that they can’t quantify the intangibles. Some guys just have that spark that makes them good hockey players. And it doesn’t necessarily correlate with age, points, or money. When there are no numbers involved, no statistics, you cant work it out to just a percentage of risk and return. I feel like this Smyth trade, allowing Lappy to move on, and letting Guite go are all the results of this inability to sense the intangibles.
I had hoped that if Sherman really was strictly a numbers guy, he would have Billington to help him with some ‘hockey sense’. I feel like this hope is slipping away. I don’t profess to be a professional, but the way the Avs are going about this twists my soul. Getting younger, cheaper, and leaner, while at the same time becoming more productive is a nice dream, but I feel like there are missing pieces of the puzzle that won’t ‘just appear’ for us.
We have a good defensive corps coming up thru the system to replace the current crop when the inevitable purge comes next year. We have two stud centers to build around, with some decent kids already in the system that will develop some chemistry with each other. We have a new coaching staff that might give us a decent system to work. We have a new front office with a supposedly different vision for the team.
It looks good when its all laid out like that, but I remain unconvinced. It doesn’t quantify the intangibles.
I guess we will just have to wait and see how it all comes together.
Sippin' PBR on a Colorado game day...
Fixed
I guess we will just have to wait and see how it all blows apart.
MHH: Shagging Dater one contributor at a time.
by Bob in Boulder on Jul 4, 2009 8:38 PM MDT up reply actions
good god
i leave for 24 hours and the whole FO loses their minds. this means 3 things:
1. AD was correct about them being mandated to cut costs at any cost.
2. This team, without further movement, looks simply terrible on paper.
3. I’ll be honest, this looks like an owner getting ready to sell a team: he’s removing long term financial liabilities, making moves without even bothering to think about the fans. It’s either that or hilariously flawed thinking that the Nuggets move to dump Camby will work twice. Who’s their Birdman clone, Todd Bertuzzi? Or is Ryan Stoa going straight to the top line?
Seriously, this is pretty fucking awful to us fans. 2 fan favorites gone for nothing, silence/meaningless platitudes from ownership/management about anything, and nothing but penny pinching evident from their moves. I think the only language the powers that be speak is money at this point. Well, that’s just fucking fine, prepare for me to communicate back the same way. Why would I pay money to fund this incompetence further?
Agree to a point
I don’t think the owner is selling the team. The Avs are still a pretty valuable franchise, and he wants/needs another tenet for the Pepsi center. He also owns so many local teams that selling one makes no sense for him.
I think he’s trying to blow it up and start over. The Avs have been playing stop-gap since the lockout and it hasn’t done a whole lot, especially in the financial department. I think Kronke has finally said “enough of this, build the team from the bottom up. This isn’t working.”
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 4, 2009 10:36 PM MDT up reply actions
yeah, you’re probably right. i still could see it — imagine Balsille making his whole financial mess go away in one fell swoop, and he keeps to nuggets. Nothing would surprise me at this point.
seriously though, Liles must be on his way out. the money in our D is freaking crazy.
Maybe
At this point I see no reason for them not to trade Liles, except he is still fairly young. I think they are going to get rid of older players, so Liles could stay.
Besides Salei, Foote, and Clark are all UFAs next season, and I think it would be disastrous to go into a free agency period with all those guys, plus Liles’ spot being needed as well.
At this point though, I just don’t know.
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 5, 2009 8:56 AM MDT up reply actions
I agree that without Liles, going into next year with no Liles, Foote, Clark or Salei is a recipe for trouble.
That being said, I think you gotta count on Footer hanging it up after this year (he’ll be about 38 or 39 next summer right?). I’d think that he has more self respect than Chelios. Losing Clark is addition by subtraction. The quicker it can happen, the better. I think the jury is still out on Salei. Is he the tough guy with a nice shot from the point that we saw in 08 or the guy who looked like he didn’t know what was going on in 09?
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