My day 1 rookie camp report 9/9/9/9/9/9/9/9
Today's rookie camp brought to you by the number 9.... I'm very clever and original.
I went on a twitter-fest at camp which is fun and frustrating all at once. You can't watch as much when you type on the iphone. Maybe that applies to the blackberry too, I wouldn't know. Before I go over what I saw, I just want to say that camp at this point can't tell you what kind of player a guys is going to be in a real NHL game. You can't simulate the physical nature of the NHL playing shinny or doing drills. You can however, evaluate skating, puck handling, vision and shot making potential etc...
The next thing is that the culture of this camp was completely different than previous years. Sacco ran the rookie camp instead of Quinn. Generally the AHL coach runs the rookie camps. Sacco was all business, as was Deadmarsh. There was no joking around or even a cracked smile. It was a quiet bunch of rookies this year because that's the tone Sacco has set. Basically Sacco would yell out a drill and then they ran it. It would be followed by laps and Deadmarsh would bang his stick on the boards to drive them to go faster. No one on one breakouts to work on this or that. It was as serious as a heart attack out there. The next huge change was that the pros scrimmaged against the rookies after camp. I've never, ever seen the Avalanche do this. It was really great to see because you would hope it would relieve some tensions and help the rookies better showcase their skills when training camp and preseason start. Sadly, this is also the first volunteer pro scrimmage session that wasn't run by Sakic. Because there were so many players they took both rinks. Foote ran the West rink and it looked like Stastny might have been running the East rink. Though maybe Tucker was running it via looking annoyed.
Duchene isn't just a fast skater, because guys like Tessier and McNicoll are also fast. The thing with MD's skating is that he's got really quick feet. Some guys like Svatos get their feet moving fast but they aren't getting anywhere particularly quickly. Duchene is for lack of a better term, quick. He's quick on his first step and he's fast as hell at top speed. The nice part is he doesn't slow down when the puck gets on his stick. That's what makes him so special as a skater. Some guys can do one or two of those things but not all of them. During some of the scrimmages that happened after rookie practice you could see Duchene is also strong on his skates. You know how you can tell when a player is going to take on the whole team by himself come hell or high water? You've seen that body language in guys like Jones, Arnason or Svatos in the past. They hunch their shoulders, bury their head and start making moves towards the net. Well, Duchene gets this look all the time when he's got the puck on his stick. But, unlike a lot of guys that do this he's shifting gears in the scoring zone and looking to make a pass. As many times as you watch him do it, it kind of takes me off guard. I hate to make the comparison because it's not fair, but he gets that Forsberg look. It's kind of like he's when Foppa would look like he's going to bull rush the zone. Everyone gravitates towards him or watches him and then he just feeds to the open guy. It's the subtlties of Duchene's playmaking with his skating that's going to make him a special pro. He's got a hard shot and all that but he's a hard player to read.
Mercier was impressive today. He skates with determination and energy. It looks like he's competing on every drill and every shift on the scrimmages. He displayed some really impressive shot making. We'll see how well that translates during full contact.
Stoa is the real deal. I think he's going to make the team for certain. He's in the right spots and has a complete skill set for a big guy.
O'Rielly doesn't stand out in drills. He's not going to be in any skills competitions but he shines in the scrimmages. He's strong on the puck and takes it to the scoring areas. He's not dancing around the outside. Sometimes, like McLeod guys are just hockey players. O'Rielly might start in Lake Erie but you can imagin a monster 3rd / 4th line in the future with him, Mercier, and maybe a guy like Yip down the road.
Didn't catch much of Yip until the scrimmages. You can tell he wants to lay the wood to some guys but games of shinny just don't allow it. He had a couple of nice goals. Has a real heavy wrist shot.
I can't judge defensemen well during these things. The defensemen that could skate looked good. A kid like Gaunce, you can't really tell anything about yet because they aren't allowed to hit or pinch guys on the boards really. One name I do want to mention is the kid we picked up from Calgary last March named Ryan Wilson. He's got a really good stick and skated really well in shinny. He just stuck out.
I thought Sauer looked solid, perhaps the best of all the prospect goaltenders playing today.
Galiardi looked confident and even cracked some smiles when he lost an edge. That's saying something for such a serious camp. On one particular drill he was rushing up the ice and he took a bad pass behind him, did a spin-o-rama and made a good feed to the open man. Here's a little fact for the ladies (and Dater :)). Galiardi looks like he's kind of "thin" because he's not wearing an undershirt like every hockey player in the world. So his jersey sticks to him. I don't think he wears any of those abs protectors with his shoulder pads either. How do I know this? From last year's final game where the players have to give the jerseys off their backs to the fans. He was the only dude not wearing a shirt under his gear. He took some ribbing from his teammates that night. I'm guessing his nickname is stink. Anyway, I've noticed a lot of people comment that he needs to put on some weight. I think his unique method of air conditioning is contributing to that belief. Too much info?
That's all I can recall off the top of my head. If anyone has questions about a particular player I'll try to answer.
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awesome info, and i agree from my vantage at dev camp. how’d Cann look?
by thedoctor on Sep 9, 2009 7:50 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Great report Dario
And I also wonder what you thought about the other goaltenders like Cann and Delmas (who struggled according to other reports I have read). Sauer I think gets forgotten about after his poor showing in the frozen four but I think he could be a sleeper future goaltender for the Avs.
Not to mention, will we ever see Weiman? Was he involved in rookie camp? I have read nothing about him there.
Joe Sakic. Captain forever.
by InYoFace on Sep 9, 2009 8:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Justin from the goalie guild is probably going to make me look like a fool when he does his Sauer write up but I just liked what I saw.
Delmas… to me he looked maybe a little lighter or quicker than in the past. But he’s still not playing big in net. He kind of seems like a wilted flower out there sometimes. I hope Roy can instill a little attitude in him, more so than his technical refining.
Cann I didn’t watch much of but he’s got a good stick and handles the puck well. Weiman was out there for scrimmages on the East rink and he looked pretty good. Actually, he looked more in to it than Budaj. Anderson was apparently breaking in new pads and was just getting loose because he wasn’t working real hard yet. I think Anderson and Budaj are just pacing themselves. However, if I were Budaj I wouldn’t get too comfortable because I think his job should be open to competition from Weiman at this point.
by Dario on Sep 9, 2009 10:20 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate to make the comparison because it’s not fair, but he gets that Forsberg look.
Ok, so this may be one of those “yeah, sure you did” kind of impressions, but I have thought since the first time I saw a youtube collection of clips on Duchene that he was more like Foppa than Sakic. Everyone keeps equating him to Yzerman and Super Joe but I see Forsberg all over him: a great two-way player who sees the ice like he’s got eyes in the back of his head and is not afraid of more than a little contact. This is not to say Boy Wonder (and yes, I prefer that to Doogie as well) doesn’t evoke memories of Sakic from those Nordique days; I just think he’s got some fight in him that better resembles a young Peter the Great.
player who sees the ice like he’s got eyes in the back of his head
Had to quote myself to add this: given Stastny’s ability to know where the hell everyone else is even if they’re 40 ft behind him, just imagine the one-two “holy crap, what the hell just hit us” scenario we may have with Duchene backing him up. Makes me all damp just thinking about it.
2009-2010 Colorado Avalanche:
Abandon all hope ye who enter here!
by BeachNSnowGirl on Sep 9, 2009 10:53 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Our very own Crosby/Malkin
Except 0% douchebag.
by eltharion_doa on Sep 10, 2009 4:45 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree on the 1 – 2 punch, but we need some snipers to complement them. Hejduk is pretty much our only one (and don’t anyone say Svatos to me, he’s more cleanup than sniper). Sure would be nice if Wolski could find that scoring touch…
by thedoctor on Sep 10, 2009 10:12 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Galiardi has the potential to fill that role
by jd21 on Sep 10, 2009 10:17 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
First off…cheers for the write up Dario.
Secondly, did you catch much of Cedric Lalonde-McNicoll? Is he the typical smaller forward or does he bring some other elements to the table? For some reason he intrigues me – probably because he is an undrafted prospect and his stats for the last year were pretty good…
by HugoAgogo on Sep 9, 2009 11:18 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I saw McNIcoll make a couple of really good decisions on the 3 v 1 drills. Basically one defender would be back and 3 forwards would come in to the offensive zone. On most plays two of the forwards would draw the defensemen’s attention and then hit the 3rd open guy who would one time the shot on the far side of the play (far post). This got prettyh predictable for the goalies. McNicoll was the first forward I saw that took that far post past and faked the shot, came across the crease and slid the puck in for an easy goal. So in that respect he’s apparently got good goal scoring instincts and doesn’t get the yips at the goal crease. In scrimmages I saw him make a pretty good move in the slot. He’s one of the faster guys on the ice.
One thing about young guys out of the Q league is that they generally look a lot less dominate in the AHL because the Q tends to be the least physical of the junior leagues. His big test will come when they start to lay a little body to him and he can’t just dance through the slot for scoring chances. I think it’s one reason guys like Galiardi have done well in the NHL so far. Galiardi doesn’t let the physical part of the game distract what he’s trying to do.
by Dario on Sep 10, 2009 6:45 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Dario
Awesome preview, I am loving this and actually beginning to look forward to this coming season.
“Makes me all damp just thinking about it” @BeachNSnowGirl – Me too! (Although, that could just be incontinence!
It's hard to be a saint in this city
by Nemesis44UK on Sep 10, 2009 3:20 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Another item: Koci.
Koci can actually skate. It’s really, really strange to see a huge enforcer with some skating ability on the Avs. I’m so used to McAlister, Worrell and Parker as heavy weights. Koci might actually have the ability to check somebody. I have hope that he’s not going to be such a huge liability that the entire 4th line sees 3 minutes a night.
by Dario on Sep 10, 2009 6:48 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Really? I am kind of excited to see him now. I had already written him off as a waste. So many new things to figure out this season, I think my head is going to be continually exploding until November.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Aph on Sep 10, 2009 8:15 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who cares about you head, I wanna hear more about Beachie’s dampness-inducing Stastny affliction.
2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Dry Humping Mediocrity
by Mike @ MHH on Sep 10, 2009 8:42 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is your first comment in a week? I expected something with a little more panache…
by Mrs @ MHH on Sep 10, 2009 2:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta warm up. Don’t want to pull anything.
2009-2010 Colorado Avalanche: Nothing Inspirational Comes to Mind
by Mike @ MHH on Sep 11, 2009 7:55 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice work by Dario, and mfured (and Avsguild) for their write-ups. Really quality stuff.
The 2009-10 Colorado Avalanche: Aiming for the Charity Point
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Sep 10, 2009 8:47 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
From a Lake Erie perspective...
I know the brass caught some **** for hiring Sacco (et al) but given the level of talent here in Cleveland the first two years, he really worked some magic to be competitive on any level at all…
That being said, maybe some columnists and naysayers will hold their tongues until they see what Joe & Sly can do.
GO AVS!
by robbyjr04 on Sep 10, 2009 9:32 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
That being said, maybe some columnists and naysayers will hold their tongues until they see what Joe & Sly can do.
I think most of the reaction here has been “Well we’re not sure what he can do. His teams in LE haven’t been very good, but most of his good players were called up”
I think they caught shit because it was another in-house move when there were some high quality more proven coaches out there. I think everyone is giving Sacco a chance.
I’d love to hear more LE perspective in the future though.
The 2009-10 Colorado Avalanche: Aiming for the Charity Point
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Sep 10, 2009 9:47 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
my perspective was definitely “I’d feel a lot better if I was confident that Joe Sacco was the best candidate, but since no one else was considered…”
Hyphens cause writers more trouble than any other form of punctuation, except perhaps commas.
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Sep 10, 2009 10:33 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Goalies
Dario,
I think your goalie analysis is just fine and it’s not my intention to negate anything that you said or what other people have said about the goalies so far. But I’ll put on my Goalie Guild hat for now (I wear it constantly anyways…) and give you my thoughts.
Also sorry for the delay on the Sauer scouting chart – I am working on it as we speak and reflecting on everything I absorbed yesterday. I had to go through a TON of photos last night … and goalies everywhere were being ravenous beasts looking for shots of Andy’s new mask … which is very sick by the way LOL. I will have it completed and posted around lunchtime =).
TREVOR CANN has…well…a lot of work to do. There is a reason why I have done scouting charts for every Avs goalie prospect EXCEPT for Cann …. for I do not think he is worth the time right now.
The very first “drill” on the ice yesterday was simply warming up the goalies. There were shots to the glove side, then to the blocker side, which has to be the most routine saves to make, no matter how rusty a goalie is. Trevor did not catch more than two pucks out of 15-20 shots to his glove hand. He uses the “fingers up” glove positioning, which means his glove is facing palm-out, fingers up to the sky. This is a problem for a lot of young goalies because it’s not a natural way of holding the glove and to push a glove up towards the sky to catch a puck is just awkward. He couldn’t even catch very simple, solid shots to his glove hand. Delmas also holds his glove “fingers up” as well, but he was not having nearly as much trouble catching them because he’s simply a better natural and technically sound goalie.
That is literally JUST scratching the surface of what I see in Cann. I do not see him as a legitimate goalie prospect, he’s not on my Top-50 Prospects list (which can be found here:
The other thing I notice about Cann is that his size is outstanding and he does look very big in the net, but he has very slow recovery speed. Once he goes down into the butterfly…that’s pretty much it. Think of a goalie like Delmas or the best example I can think of is Jonas Hiller. They have incredible lateral movement and can shuffle on their knees side-to-side without exerting any energy and almost in a superfluous manner. Cann is a pretty hefty boy at 199 pounds (listed on the roster I got yesterday) and you can see he struggles moving that body laterally.
The skating drill, well I seriously found myself laughing at that. Cann and Sauer have got to become better skaters. They couldn’t even cross-over. Delmas is by far the best skater of the goalie prospects and Maxwell was decent as well. But Cann could hardly skate and I think the only reason he looked decent compared to the other goalies was that he was in front of the line, so the other goalies skated at Cann’s pace.
Now I will say that Cann did have brand new pads, and Dario is totally correct when he said that Anderson was breaking in new pads and looked “stiff” out there. I can say that there’s probably a good chance that Cann was a little stiff as well, as he was breaking in new Vaughn 7500’s (great Avs color scheme, btw).
Unfortunately, the new pads doesn’t take anything away from the problems I see within Cann’s technique and style.
I don’t want to come off like I’m totally burying Cann, but from a scouting perspective, Cann has a long way to go before I consider him a legitimate prospect. Brandon Maxwell is two years younger than Cann but is easily a more technically sound goalie with more potential.
So from the ground up, Cann needs to continue working hard to not only improve his foot work and foot speed, but also become quicker and more agile. He can get away with this in the OHL, especially on a stacked London Knights team, because size is more advantageous at that level. But if he does get promoted to the AHL behind Weiman (I think Sauer is already slated for that gig though) then he better become lighter on his feet and learn how to move laterally much faster than he does now.
He made some great solid saves in the scrimmage and I will also say that Cann has very good positioning and depth in the net. A lot of big goalies will play a step or two deeper in their crease because they can get away with it, but Cann plays high in his crease, with the back edges of his skates on the top of the crease. This makes him appear even bigger in the net than he already is, so Cann is considered a big “blocking” goalie that has sub-par lateral movement.
Okay I think that pretty much sums up my views on Cann. Take it for what it’s worth and realize that he’s still a good goalie and has plenty of time to develop into a solid prospect for this organization.
Billy Sauer definitely improved more than the other goalies out there over the last month. When I saw him play during Rookie Development Camp in August, I was slightly impressed with his development over the last year. When I saw him yesterday, I was very impressed with how he had improved in just 5-6 weeks time. He was quicker than I ever remember him seeing. He still has some structural issues with his positioning, but I’ll be tackling that in my scouting chart.
Peter Delmas was excellent yesterday…ESPECIALLY in the laid-back scrimmage. Obviously he was putting it all on the line to show his stuff, as compared to the vets that were more or less goofing around and settling in, but he was making legit saves on legit players. Paul Stastny did snipe the ever living fluff out of him on one shot and I believe that was the ONLY goal I saw him allow in the whole hour. He was switching every 10 minutes with Anderson though.
Delmas is an EXCELLENT skater, he plays a very, very tight butterfly style. That is why he appears so much smaller in the net compared to Cann. The tight butterfly style is pretty much dominted by goalies in the Quebec area, so Patrick Roy will actually like Delmas’ style and be able to improve it even moreso. He has a ton of overlap with his Reebok pads, so the kid RARELY gets beat five-hole. But when you have so much overlap with the pads, that opens up tiny holes in the corners and in the 6 and 7 holes, which are under the shoulders and over the pads.
I suggest checking out the Peter Delmas scouting c hart I did back in July – http://www.theavalancheguild.com/?p=79
You can see more info about my thoughts on him. He looked slightly improved yesterday, but I personally think that Delmas is a quality prospect with a good future. I was speaking with Aaron Musick, who covers the Avs for Hockeybuzz (and a new member of the Avs Roundtable) yesterday about Delmas and we both agree that this is a huge huge MAKE OR BREAK year for him. With Roy as his head coach, either he’ll thrive under that pressure and balloon into an even better goalie, or he’ll buckle and struggle with the mental aspects of the position and it will take away from his development.
I’m even more impressed with Brandon Maxwell because of his age and the road he’s taking to become a prized prospect. Here is his scouting chart from July – http://www.theavalancheguild.com/?p=118
What I love about Maxwell is his stature in the net at his age and his tremendous agility and movement for his size. He’s 6-foot and 195 pounds but moves like a 5-foot-10 170-pound goalie. He’s going to be very, very good and if I had to rank the prospects I’d say Delmas and Maxwell are side-by-side, with Sauer below them and then Cann at the bottom.
Maxwell’s route is an interesting one. He was born in Florida, raised in Canada, developed in the USJDP program and now heading BACK to Canada to play with the Kitchener Rangers. What I love about him going back to Canada instead of going the NCAA route is simply games played. NCAA goalies see 30-40 games per year, but CHL goalies see closer to 60. He’s going to get a ton of minutes, play against more quality skaters and develop at a quicker rate. All that being said, Maxwell could very well be the future goalie of this team ….
No need to discuss Weiman at all. Everyone knows I went crazy on the airwaves a million times last year with my frustrations for him not being called up at all. The situation with Weiman is so frustrating I can’t even talk about it. The tandem for this team should be Anderson and Weiman, and I’ll leave it at that.
Okay I just wrote a freakin’ book for you cats, sorry about the length and this was all raw stuff, so just take it for what it’s worth!!! PHEW.
by TheAvalancheGuild on Sep 10, 2009 10:40 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
You see what I have to put up with for the roundtable, right?
I kid, I kid…
2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Dry Humping Mediocrity
by Mike @ MHH on Sep 10, 2009 10:42 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
BAHAHA. Well I wanted to post more……………lol just kidding.
Over at DobberHockey I am known quite simply as “The King of Diatribes”
Yeehaw.
by TheAvalancheGuild on Sep 10, 2009 10:44 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoops … I knew I forgot something
Top-50 Prospects is here … and look who is #50 ;) MAXWELL!!
by TheAvalancheGuild on Sep 10, 2009 10:46 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sweet list
Khudobin at 44 was a little sad, but that guy is so much fun to watch when he’s rolling.
I thought you knew that algebra was all razzamatazz. A Globetrotter always saves the good algebra for the final minutes.
by SlamDunkTheFunk on Sep 10, 2009 12:20 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks. Yeah Khudobin would be higher if the Wild didn’t go out and get Wade “Doobie-doobie-do” Dubielewicz. What’s with all the former CC and DU goalies in the AHL?? Maybe Josh Harding will ACTUALLY get traded soon…..to the Islanders or Thrashers I’m sure bahahahaha.
by TheAvalancheGuild on Sep 10, 2009 12:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was pretty dominating in last year's playoff run
and even when he wasn’t playing that well, it was tough to hold it against him because the defense in front of him straight up collapsed against Manitoba. That, and Constantine had zero confidence in him and was quick to pull him. Has to be hard when you know that if you give up two goals, you’re done for the night.
I thought you knew that algebra was all razzamatazz. A Globetrotter always saves the good algebra for the final minutes.
by SlamDunkTheFunk on Sep 10, 2009 12:50 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn’t agree with you more. He was awesome. Just a heads up that the Top-50 Prospects list is from a fantasy perspective for keeper leagues … so that obviously has an impact on his overall rankings. If it was strictly from a talent perspective, he would probably be in the 30’s somewhere. LOL @ Kevin Constantine!!!
by TheAvalancheGuild on Sep 10, 2009 12:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Constantine wasn't entirely wrong, imo
You could usually tell when Anton wasn’t on his game. He would slide a lot and his body language completely changed. It just seemed like he deserved some leeway to try and fight through his struggles instead of getting the hook so quickly. Anton Khudobin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Matt Climie, imo.
I thought you knew that algebra was all razzamatazz. A Globetrotter always saves the good algebra for the final minutes.
by SlamDunkTheFunk on Sep 10, 2009 1:34 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Billy Sauer Scouting Chart
…is completed and now up at either www.theavalancheguild.com or www.thegoalieguild.com and you can click the image to download the PDF. Enjoy!
by TheAvalancheGuild on Sep 10, 2009 12:58 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sacco good start?
What I find encouraging from this, is that the tryout was “as serious as a heart attack.” I like it that Sacco seems to be departing from the Tony Granato coaching school of “Hi buds, we’re all here to have fun, lets be pals”
After last season, I don’t want the Avs to be on a jolly fun trip. I want them to be angry at last year’s result. I want passion, commitment cough tucker cough and a desire to compete.
Yes, the Avs are rebuilding, but that doesn’t give them licence not to try.
It's hard to be a saint in this city
by Nemesis44UK on Sep 11, 2009 2:37 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

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