What does Holøs have to do?
by Cheryl Bradley on Nov 21, 2010 10:39 PM MST
in Avalanche News & Notes
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Like many of you, I’m not only disappointed with Jonas Holøs’ reassignment to Lake Erie, I’m confused. The Norwegian defenseman has appeared to be one of the stronger players on our blue line, especially when compared to the Kyles. But let’s face it folks: Quincey’s not going to the AHL any time soon, and Cumiskey’s still out, so it was either going to be Holøs or Wilson. With Wilson’s waiver status the way it is, I don’t think any of us can be surprised the ø had to go. So now the question is what he will do when he is called back up (and we all know he will be given the Avs’ propensity for injuries). I took a look at what call ups did last year and so far this season to either earn their spot or get shipped back to Cleveland, and a pretty clear pattern developed.
So this is what happened in the 2009-2010 season:
The keepers: these are the guys who ended the year with the Avs.
| Player | GP | G | A | +/- |
| Chris Stewart | 77 | 28 | 36 | +4 |
| Brandon Yip | 32 | 11 | 8 | +5 |
| Chris Durno | 41 | 4 | 4 | +3 |
| Ryan Stoa | 12 | 2 | 1 | -3 |
| Ryan Wilson | 61 | 3 | 18 | +13 |
The not quites: these are the guys who ended the year with the Monsters.
| Player | GP | G | A | +/- |
| Philipe Dupuis | 4 | 0 | 1 | +1 |
| Brian Willsie | 4 | 0 | 0 | -1 |
| Tom Pressing | 4 | 0 | 1 | -6 |
| TJ Hensick | 7 | 1 | 2 | 0 |
| Derek Peltier | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Wes O’Neill | 2 | 0 | 0 | +1 |
| Justin Mercier | 9 | 1 | 1 | +2 |
| Darren Haydar | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 |
| Kevin Porter | 15 | 2 | 1 | -4 |
In any given stint with the Avs, players received on average 4 games to prove themselves. If they showed some life - and if space in the roster permitted - they stuck around. How long was up to them and their continued level of play.
We all know how Stewie’s two-game visit to Ohio ended up: he became Chris Goddamn Stewart, that’s what. Yip, Durno and Wilson also showed enough to Sacco to stay a mile high. Stoa? Well, he enjoyed the revolving door, never really stringing enough good games together to make it to the roster on more than a warm-body basis.
Looking at what the Erie guys did, it’s no wonder they didn’t stick around. (And yes, Pressing was that bad.) The only aberration on that list is Mercier, but when breaking down his games, it’s not so surprising. The first stay lasted 6 games and yielded one goal, one assist and a +2 rating. A healthy forward corps sent him back, but he was one of the first to be called back. Unfortunately, his second trip to Denver didn’t go so well: 3 games, no goals, no assists, a +0, and only one shot on goal. Yeah, not tearing it up there, Justin.
So what did Stewart, Yip, Durno and Wilson do in those first 4 games that made Sacco keep them around?
| Player | GP | G | A | +/- |
| Chris Stewart | 4 | 1 | 4 | +3 |
| Brandon Yip | 4 | 1 | 0 | 0 |
| Chris Durno | 4 | 2 | 0 | +2 |
| Ryan Stoa | 4 | 1 | 0 | 0 |
| Ryan Wilson | 4 | 1 | 0 | +2 |
Clearly, Stewie and Durns kicked ass. They made a statement that couldn’t be ignored. Wilson was hitting people into benches, so his offensive output, as limited as it was, was icing on Sandie’s cupcakes. But what about Yip? Why did he get the benefit of the doubt when Stoa didn’t? I think this is one of those, “You know it when you see it” kind of things. Yip has that certain something - and worked hard every shift - which got him some extra games. Those extra games was all he needed. In his next 5 games, he went 3 goals, 3 assists and a +4. Stoa had chance after chance, but never seemed to up his game from that first showing.
The 2010-2011 season thus far gives us this data:
| Player | GP | G | A | +/- |
| David Van der Gulik | 5* | 1 | 1 | +3 |
| Kevin Shattenkirk | 9 | 2 | 3 | +2 |
| Kevin Porter | 14 | 5 | 1 | +7 |
| Mark Olver | 4 | 0 | 2 | +1 |
| David Liffiton | 4 | 1 | 0 | +3 |
| Colby Cohen | 3 | 0 | 0 | -1 |
| Jonas Holøs | 12 | 0 | 2 | +3 |
* Went out on IR after 5th game
Olver was victim to a stacked forward roster. (Who woulda thunk during the summer I’d be writing that sentence now?) I’m still not sure exactly why Liffiton was sent down. His numbers look great. However, comparing Shattenkirk’s play to that of Cohen and Holøs, it’s pretty clear that production is the key for Sacco. Points=playing time.
The moral of this story is that when Holøs gets back to Denver, he has 4 games to make his offensive stand. Put up points? He’ll get more games to show he’s not interested in going back to Ohio.
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Shocked. Probably just logistics, with the boatload of defenseman we currently are sporting. Trade Cumiskey. Trade Cumiskey. Trade Cumiskey. Liles has blossomed, Shattenkirk looks like he is money. Cumiskey is a liability in his own zone, and clearly doesn’t bring the offensive mojo to the table that JML and Shatty are showing. Ideal I’d like to see Liles, O’Byrne, Holos, Shattenkirk, Foote, and Hannan/Wilson/Quincey get the nod. I still think Quincey could be great. Hope he turns it around.
Sports don't build character, they reveal it
I wasn’t so into trading Cumiskey earlier this season, since I still thought his speed offered the team something different. With the advent of the Shat, however, yeah, Cumiskey is kinda redundant. Shopping him needs to come after he returned from injury, however. I don’t think sending Holos down is such a bad thing right now, since I believe he could learn a lot from playing lots of minutes in the AHL. That said, yeah, he’s likely going to come back probably some time soon.
I spent more effort eating a pudding than Tyler Arnason skated last year.
Yay Beachie! :)
was icing on Sandie’s cupcakes
Bwahahahaha!
And how Awesome are Shattenkirk’s and Poter’s numbers this year. Seriously. They make me smile every game!
Winnik is a fucking Win!
by Sandie Gauthier on Nov 21, 2010 11:04 PM MST reply actions
Shattenkirk’s 2 passes to Hejduk were significant. Does anyone think Hejduk hasn’t been open over there on the power play all year? I bet anything he has been, but no other point man on the team has either seen the pass or if they have been able to see it, they haven’t been able to make it.
That type of + vision and passing is what makes a player a first round draft pick. He has no where to go but up, and I think he could end up adding a whole new dimension to the power play, opening up more space for the forwards and in general making the offense even more dangerous.
No soup for you!
I don;t know, but that one pass was something special.
Winnik is a fucking Win!
by Sandie Gauthier on Nov 22, 2010 6:30 AM MST up reply actions
Holos loses a numbers game. The Avs are happy they found a guy who’s decent but need the physical presence of the bigger defenders. Although slower and sometimes clumsy, the physical portion of the game sets the tone of the game, and the Avs were losing this battle of the toughness edge against teams earlier in the season. When Holos, Cohen, Shattenkirk and Liles played together, there was little or no intimidation, and we’d get pushed around, unable to win the puck on the boards, which led to a lot of scrambling. Ryan Wilson may not be as skilled as Holos, but he’s got that thunder check, and the opponent has to be aware. The blue line needs to be a combination of hard nosed toughness and skill players. I think we’ve got a decent combination of defensemen, right now. At first I thought O’Byrne for Bournival was questionable, but O’Byrne looks good on a pairing with JML. With Liles and Shattenkirk showing strong skills in the offensive zone, there was nowhere for Holos to go but be a healthy scratch. If so, it’s better he gets ice time in the AHL. Shattenkirk is a Calder candidate, and, if a vote were held today, Liles could be up for the Norris. I can’t quite believe I typed that, but JML’s been real good defensively and obviously, offensively, as well. I wish we’d get rid of the Kyles. Quincey’s a heartbreaker. He’s got the skills, but I don’t think he’s got the mental edge to bring it every shift. The six D guys who have played the past two games are good. Dater’s been down on Foote/Wilson for obvious reasons, but they do a lot of good things, too. Sacco might have to match up the opponents lines better for those guys if they keep having huge minus numbers.
Quincey’s a heartbreaker. He’s got the skills, butI don’t think he’s got the mental edge to bring it every shifthe’s incredibly unlucky.
fixed.
Bitch, give me your lunch money.
by Cheryl Bradley on Nov 22, 2010 8:22 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
REC'D
Hahaha, laughed out loud in the middle of Math class, I can’t even pull it off as though I was paying attention. Math isn’t that fun.
Winnik is a fucking Win!
by Sandie Gauthier on Nov 22, 2010 8:27 AM MST up reply actions
There is a lot here to ingest in terms of what different players have done in their time here and LEM. The key piece of missing data involves what Sacco and the Avs brain-trust are looking for from individual players and the overall balance of player types they are looking to create.
I think for Holøs right now it’s a numbers game, and it is better for him to play in LEM than sit in the press box here. What we want to know is: who are we looking to trade and what do we want in return?
btw- Olver has been scoring in bunches in LEM, and Stoa has also been showing signs of life- both scoring and playing with passion.
Jonas Holøs- Putting the Ø in defense since 2010!
There's a gap here
I do not think Holos needs to put up points to stick around. He is a solid stay at home defenseman and Sacco knows that. Every team needs at least one. We had one in Foote, who then got hurt, and sort of Wilson who got hurt. Sherman went and got Snatch. I think Snatch is the key to this puzzles.
Holos is sound, but not a physical force. Say what you want about Snatch, but he was on the ice for the 4-3 overtime last game and did great. Liles seems to love him and he is physical. Holos is a Foote like replacement. He will be replacing Foote I imagine very soon. I think Foote will retire and that is Holos’ spot to take. He could lose it to Cohen or someone, but it is his spot. Sacco got “lucky” again that a rookie, Shattenkirk, came up and did amazing.
As for sending him down, it makes more sense to keep Quincey in the box than Holos. Holos is young and needs to keep playing. Quincey earned his contract and is now being punished by being on the bench. If Wilson’s play slips, Quincey will go in. If Quincey’s play slips, Holos will be called up.
No one would have guessed this would be the year of Shattenkirk as it appears to be. Maybe next year will be the year of Holos.
Jimmy Howard invented the All-Star Game, yet he's not on the ballot.
by c6hor8 on Nov 22, 2010 8:39 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
I agree that physicality would give Holos more of a chance; his numbers would be fine if he could bring the Mack Truck. But he’s not. So he either needs to up that or up the numbers. It was just interesting to me to see that all the guys that stayed in the line up were numbers guys. Even Durno, a fourth line grinder, got the nod over others. Goals.
I think Foote’s replacement is expected to be Cohen, honestly. He’s bigger and badder than Holos. Holos needs to make Quincey obsolete. Until then, absolutely he should be playing instead of eating nachos.
Bitch, give me your lunch money.
by Cheryl Bradley on Nov 22, 2010 8:53 AM MST up reply actions
I was thinking O’Byrne was to be Foote’s replacement. I saw Cohen as a guy we’d be using for when Quincey and Cumiskey go away. Cohen and Holøs aren’t too far off in size. According to the “In the system” on the Avs site Cohen is just 3 inches taller with 4 pounds on Holøs. You get to see a lot more than I do though. Maybe O’Byrne is to be Hannan’s replacement since the size is right? I could see that happening. That actually makes sense. When Hannan, Quincey, and Foote part ways with the team Cohen, Holøs, and O’Byrne are there. I don’t see Cumiskey sticking around at all with his current play and that’s fine by me because Shattenkirk is better in every single way so far.
It's all about the luck.
I guess I should have said, “I think Foote’s replacement WAS expected to be Cohen.” Now that ROB’s here, you’re absolutely right.
Bitch, give me your lunch money.
by Cheryl Bradley on Nov 22, 2010 9:36 AM MST up reply actions
I think Holos’ primary opportunity is in replacing Hannan. Though a bit smaller (2 inches & 30 lb.) than Hannan, Hannan hasn’t been a bonecruncher since the lockout (if ever). Holos plays smart, positional defense (which is what Hannan is supposed to do) and is infinitely more comfortable and capable with the puck than is Hannan.
Though Hannan’s hitting involves primarily his purse and will likely not result in injury, because if you try, that’s when you get hurt, I see this as Holos’ best shot at the roster.
I do believe, though, that Wilson should be given the kick in the ass to send him down to LEM while he is still safe from waivers. Holos ought have stayed.
2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: pretty good at hockey since they can't get into the bars yet.
I’m a bit of a homer for Wilson (just as I am/was for Clark). I really want him to stay with the club, but I do agree. I think he should get the kick in the ass and Holøs should have stayed. I really don’t want to see Wilson traded at all and I think a trip to Lake Erie would help provide a gentle reminder.
It's all about the luck.
Hopfenkopf is right. I always thought Gaunce would be the Foote replacement. I think Cohen will actually play on a powerplay sometime in his career, and already has, therefore cannot be compare accurately to Foote. I think what hurt Cohen was his reluctance to shot the howitzer. (Personally I am still bitter about that, heard so many great things, like a case of blue balls). I think Cohen is going to be the Rob Blake replacement. We haven’t had anyone since him that is big, nasty, and offensive gifted.
by avalanchejef on Nov 23, 2010 7:27 AM MST up reply actions
Rob Blakes Replacement???
When Cohen overcomes issues of skating and defense he may be a serviceable NHL D-men. He’s not anywhere close to being the 2nd coming of Rob Blake.
"'The powers that we gave the federal government are few and well-defined, and restricted mostly to external affairs. Those left with the people and the states are indefinite and numerous." - James Madison, Federalist Paper #45
We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.
Ronald Reagan
Nice! That does makes a lot of sense.
by Paulo Saraiva on Nov 23, 2010 12:29 PM MST up reply actions
What does Holos have to do?
1. Wait for injuries to happen
2. Not soil the bedsheet in the AHL
3. Not get injured
Everyone’s gotta earn their chances.
OT:
But my ad on MHH is now for a Tequila show ;)
Winnik is a fucking Win!
by Sandie Gauthier on Nov 22, 2010 9:38 AM MST reply actions
Meh. They are winning without him (and without the two Kyles) in the lineup, they are more physical, and Shattenkirk is emerging as a much more gifted player than Holos will ever be. Yes, Foote and Wilson have been shaky in their own end at times, but I still like the direction the team is heading. Holos is what he is. A relatively solid all-around defenseman with limited offensive skill and no physicality.
Your 2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Reaching Up to the Cap Floor
by Bob in Boulder on Nov 22, 2010 10:04 AM MST reply actions
Holos Will be Back
Holos to the LEM was more being caught up in a numbers game than any deficiency or shortcoming as a D-man he may have. He needs all the ice time he can get with the LEM to continue his development. When Hannan and Foote are gone next year, Holos will have a full time spot on the Avs roster. As much as I like Holos’ all-around, fundamental game, he still needs to learn how to be solid with the puck. Under pressure he has a tendency to make soft plays in his own end.
"'The powers that we gave the federal government are few and well-defined, and restricted mostly to external affairs. Those left with the people and the states are indefinite and numerous." - James Madison, Federalist Paper #45
We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.
Ronald Reagan
Give Sacco the benefit of the doubt
As well as this team is playing right now, and the way they fought through that bout of injuries, I trust the coach. If he thinks that Holøs needs to be in the AHL for a bit longer, I’m good with that. I like the kid, but it’s all about the A team.
Detroit is peopled entirely by slovenly ill-informed troglodytes, excepting of course the few Avalanche fans who are victims of unfortunate circumstance.
Numbers game, you can’t send down any of the other guys without the chance of losing them for nothing. I know everyone is down on wilson right now, but unlike Quincey, I think he has a good chance of getting his game back, he’s only had a 4 games or so back from his injury and while he’s been what I think at best you could call incredibly bad, let’s at least give him a week or two.
Each of my replies is a work of art, each more brilliant than the last.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Nov 22, 2010 1:07 PM MST reply actions
Here’s the issue though, Wilson could be sent down without being exposed to waivers. If that’s the case, let’s give him some time in LEM to shake out the cobwebs or whatever and keep Holos on the ice in COL.
2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: pretty good at hockey since they can't get into the bars yet.
With Quincey coming back I’m guessing that Wilson will ride the pine, at least he’d been playing, it would have been too long to keep holos as a scratch.
Each of my replies is a work of art, each more brilliant than the last.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Nov 22, 2010 9:04 PM MST up reply actions
I think Wilson has improved considerably since coming back. Still needs work to get to the level he was, but still I can see a somewhat fast improvement of his game
by Paulo Saraiva on Nov 23, 2010 12:40 PM MST up reply actions
Nothing about Holøs being out of the lineup and Cumiskey being in the lineup is good. Granted when Kyle gets back to health I wonder if he’ll be getting ice time or joining Thing 2 for some nachos.
It's all about the luck.
How long do you think Quincey will be a healthy scratch, though? And if/when he does come back, who does he replace?
Bitch, give me your lunch money.
by Cheryl Bradley on Nov 22, 2010 3:11 PM MST up reply actions
I think he gives somebody a night off, and then just happens to play a tremendous game. Whoever he replaces gets permanent nacho duty until the next injury while Thing 2 goes back to being mediocre at best. :(
It's all about the Ø
I think the first game we will see Thing 2 back on the ice will be a maintenance day for old man Foote. That’s who he is most likely to replace on the ice for a night or two. I am not thinking he will play a tremendous game however. I’m going to choose to be the optimist and say that I think he’ll play competently. The only way, and I mean only way, Quincey gets solid playing time without someone getting injured is if Shattenkirk slips. Other than that I foresee another move taking place. I think Cumiskey will be gone by or at the deadline if he is not moved to the AHL. According to capgeek he’s still on a two way contract and an RFA at the end of the year. So he would make decent trade bait for a team looking to add some speed (I think he still has some positives to his game but they’re not nearly enough to take Shattenkirk out of the lineup). Wilson is in the exact same boat as Thing 1 (last year of two way contract and RFA status). Quincey is an RFA at the end of next season and brings a 3.125 million cap hit along with him. Hannan is on the final year of his 4.5 million/yr contract and with his NMC he’s staying. Since we’re barely above the cap floor I don’t see Thing 2 being traded. In fact, I think management will re-sign him to a deal similar to what he has now.
It's all about the luck.
If we want to try and get deals for the Kyles, they need to have playing time. Shattenkirk and Wilson will almost certainly sit, if only to showcase their play. We might be in for some rough time watching the defense, but hopefully our offense is up to the task.
Thanks Joe...
He'll be back
Holøs will get his chance when injuries start racking up again, then you guys can have your ørgies again every time he touches the puck
Garrett those socks make you look homeless!
by Chris S Roberts on Nov 22, 2010 7:04 PM MST reply actions
It’s already been said, but…..
I imagine it’s more about if we have Quincey, Wilson, or Foote already sitting in the nachobox, it would be better if Holos (I refuse to learn how to make the slash-o, refuse!) were getting minutes in Cleveland, learning the N.A. game, working on conditioning, paying his “dues”, smelling the fresh air, and developing a great and motivational hatred for the minors.
"We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese!"
On a Mac it’s option + o I believe. PC it’s alt 0248. You must learn the way of the ø.
Fuck you Mr. Potatohead
My ears are plugged and I’m saying; “BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH….”
"We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese!"
yes on a mac is option + o (and you can capitalize it with a shift key)
by Paulo Saraiva on Nov 23, 2010 12:48 PM MST up reply actions
I refuse to go down that road
Of course I can over-analyze everything like everyone else on this interweb thingy…but I’m not going to.
I am going to be happy for Holos because he is now going to get a ton of ice time with LEM. He is going to tear it up like a Monster, just like CGDS did when he was sent down. He may not get the call up this year (the Avs already hit their injury quota for the year) but come next training camp, he will be a fixture on our blueline.
$10 says they get Duched before they get Shat on.
You know, there is a plus side to all this. Now I get to watch him when the Monsters come back to Oklahoma City.
Hm.
It's all about the Ø
What does Holøs have to do?
Well, here’s Eric The Red’s tip- Wait til nighttime. Hang out outside of Coach Sacco’s window with a camera. When the goat walks in, start taking pictures. The rest should be pretty easy to figure out.
Hockey- goddamn it's cool.
by TheRed on Nov 23, 2010 1:42 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
Pretty simple: The Avalanche are 7-1-0 without him in the lineup.
Mega Snake vs. Giant Octopus - Silver Seven - The Classic Blog Redux
They are also 5 – 1 since Ryan O’Byrne arrived.
Jonas Holøs- Putting the Ø in defense since 2010!
by niwotsblessing on Nov 23, 2010 7:58 AM MST up reply actions
Yep.
Kevin Porter: 8-6-0 in, 4-1-1 out
T.J. Galiardi: 7-6-1 in, 5-1-0 out
Kevin Shattenkirk: 6-3-0 in, 6-4-1 out
Kyle Cumiskey: 6-4-1 in, 6-3-0 out
Adam Foote: 8-3-0 in, 4-4-1 out
Greg Mauldin: 5-1-0 in, 7-6-1 out
Ryan Wilson: 10-4-1 in, 2-3-0 out
Jonas Holøs: 5-6-1 in, 7-1-0 out
Kyle Quincey: 7-5-1 in, 5-2-0 out
Mega Snake vs. Giant Octopus - Silver Seven - The Classic Blog Redux
by Ryan Classic on Nov 23, 2010 8:09 AM MST up reply actions
Saccø øn Holøs
Sacco said of Holos’ demotion to Lake Erie: “He needs to play. That’s the bottom line. He’s a young player and he needs to be playing in all different situations. But I tell you, he’s been a pleasant surprise for us from Day One. He’s done a good job. He came into training camp and established himself as a defenseman we can count on here someday.”
Jonas Holøs- Putting the Ø in defense since 2010!
Nice find.
Bitch, give me your lunch money.
by Cheryl Bradley on Nov 23, 2010 9:16 AM MST up reply actions
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