Breaking Down the Hunwick Trade: More Questions Than Answers
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Nov 29, 2010 7:38 PM MST
in Avalanche News & Notes
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PrintThe Colorado Avalanche today traded D Colby Cohen to the Boston Bruins for D Matt Hunwick. The news has elicited a large number of comments here at MHH - some positive, some negative and some falling into the wait-and-see category. I've had a couple of hours to mull this one over and, frankly, I still don't quite get it.
In a nutshell, the Avalanche traded a promising young defenseman for a more established young defenseman. The book on Matt Hunwick seems to place him as a smallish d-man with some puck moving ability but a little shaky in his own zone. Sort of a poor-man's John-Michael Liles, if you will. And, last I checked, we had the rich-man's John-Michael Liles. We also have a similar player in Lake Erie: Jonas Holos, who seems at risk to become the latest in a recent stretch of European players who didn't get a fair shot with the Avalanche.
To get Hunwick, the Avalanche moved Colby Cohen, a bigger player with a booming righthanded shot (or so we've been told). Cohen was the Avs 2nd round pick in the 2007 draft. While that relatively high draft status in no way guarantees that Cohen will be a star in this league, he's just 21 years old with just 20 professional under his belt. Could the Avalanche brass already deemed Cohen expendable after such a short audition? To my eyes, Cohen's potential is a pretty steep cost for what appears to be a solid-but-unspectacular middle pairing defenseman, especially when your trading partner is desperate to clear cap space. It seems to me that Avalanche are either really high on Hunwick or were really low on Cohen (or both). To Hunwick's credit, he did play for the Avs' 2nd favorite college team: Michigan (where he played with Kevin Porter, T.J. Hensick and Billy Sauer), so it's likely the Avalanche are familiar with his skillset. (Oh, and stick tap to Captain Arby's for calling this 2 years ago)
Either way, it still seems like a strange time to make a move. The Avalanche now have 9 NHL defensemen on their roster and only 1 - Kevin Shattenkirk - can be sent to Lake Erie without clearing waivers. Kyle Cumiskey remains out for the foreseeable future with a concussion, but Adam Foote is expected back soon. When that happens, who plays and who sits? I can't even begin to sort that one out.
It's been postulated that the Avalanche are maneuvering to move a defenseman between now and the deadline for a forward. This makes some sense...but why not just make that move now? Injuries and Kyle Brodziak's thick skull have depleted the Avs' depth at forward. Perhaps this move will become clearer in the coming weeks (we scratched our head at the Ryan O'Byrne trade as well). For now, though, this trade just seems...odd.
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If this means Wilson and Cumiskey are gone, then I am all for it.
If this means Shatty gets demoted back to LEM with Holos then I want Sherman’s resignation letter.
$10 says they get Duched before they get Shat on.
I really don’t believe there is any chance we’ll see Shattenkirk in a LEM uniform again. which just adds to the odd timing of this, IMO
I am the most humble blogger of all time
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Nov 29, 2010 7:48 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
He is the only D-man the Avs have that won’t have to clear waivers… There is no way they will play 9 deep on D. So it’s either back to LEM or trade bait. I don’t see demand for Wilson or Cumiskey on the market, and all the other Avs D are too expensive
$10 says they get Duched before they get Shat on.
only they have to know that too, there just has to be something more. (E4)
Each of my replies is a work of art, each more brilliant than the last.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Nov 29, 2010 8:07 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah. Maybe they will risk it by putting Cummers or Wilson on waivers. If nobody claims them, good. If somebody does claim them, then they’re off of our hands.
MHH: Mr. Howard, Doctor Jones will see you now.
Wouldn’t they have to go through re-entry waivers if we needed them again for whatever reason? I could see them going then, as they would most likely have improved to be needed,
Hockey- goddamn it's cool.
no re-entry waivers for Wilson. Cumiskey would be eligible, I believe.
I am the most humble blogger of all time
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Nov 29, 2010 9:05 PM MST up reply actions
Thanks. Never have been quite sure how that works, and wasn’t bothered enough by that to go look it up. Wilson might be a good waiver guy then. (I’m assuming it’s going to be hard to trade guys who basically aren’t that good right now for anything of substance) (then again, there’s always Glen Sather, Garth Snow, etc)
Hockey- goddamn it's cool.
Frankly, the way Wilson is playing and given the fact that Cumiskey has a concussion, I doubt they would have any trouble clearing waivers.
MHH: Mr. Howard, Doctor Jones will see you now.
yes but...
time and time again they’ve chosen wilson over holøs. while i agree it doesnt seem that they feel the same way
It's all about the A-nderson
by Cole D Hamilton on Nov 29, 2010 9:19 PM MST up reply actions
Wilson was pretty good last year, for stretches…I think they’re hoping…hoping…hoping he becomes a player and not the liability he’s been of late, so he can be on ice and use his physicality.
believe me i hope so too. i loved his game last year. But the benefit of the doubt Wilson gets mean’s their not gonna risk him on waivers so someone else is moving:
-Liles (NO)
-Hannan (the only consistent calm presence)
-Foote (cpt. so not moving)
-Quincey (has a higher ceiling than wilson IMO)
-Shattenkirk (They’d be crazy to move him but he could end up in LE b/c of this)
-O’Byrne (Just traded for/not moving)
-Hunwick " "
-Holøs (seems undervalued by management and could be on his way out)
-Cumiskey (concussion makes him untradeable)
So, the only guys who even could move are Shattenkirk back to Cleveland, Holøs outa town, Quincey though its unlikely since we just resigned him and Liles who would bring the most in return. So who do you move?
It's all about the A-nderson
by Cole D Hamilton on Nov 29, 2010 9:39 PM MST up reply actions
Holos isn't undervalued
he’s just getting quality minutes to develop. His endurance and overall play will benefit from the experience. Next year he will have plenty of chances to fill Hannan’s spot.
2010-11 Colorado Avalanche: The Asskickers of the Amazing
i dont understand the endurance issue. ill give sacco benefit of the doubt on it. but lest we forget holøs led all players in the olympics in ice time and ate big minutes when he was up with the big club. His play wasnt negatively impacting the team so sending him down and trading prospects for middling defensmen to fill his spot now is not exactly a vote of confidence
It's all about the A-nderson
by Cole D Hamilton on Nov 29, 2010 10:03 PM MST up reply actions
Perhaps the minutes in the Olys were easier because it didn’t last over months. As much as I hate it, it makes sense that Holos is in Erie. I just hope he doesn’t get upset about it and yearn to go back to Europe.
Bitch, give me your lunch money.
by Cheryl Bradley on Nov 30, 2010 10:06 AM MST up reply actions
Not saying they will, but Hunwick and O’Byrne could be traded. just because they just got here doesn’t really mean much in the NHL. It’s happened plenty of times in the past.
Hockey- goddamn it's cool.
They Sports Illustrated headline on my phone was “Hunwick Traded to Bruins in Blue Line Swap”. I had a wild moment believing that some crazy three part plus part trade had happened and Hunwick had somehow gone back to where he started. Then I realized that it was Sports Illustrated, and laughed, and went to TSN.
Thanks Joe...
I can’t see them trying to send Shattenkirk down now…
Winnik is a fucking Win!
by Sandie Gauthier on Nov 29, 2010 8:11 PM MST up reply actions
I think
The “reserving judegment for now” option is the only real choice here. Cohen has potential but that’s all he is for now. Potential.
Younger and cheaper - Colorado Avalanche
Older and drunker - Me
Exactly. Avs brass have picked up Porter, Winnick, O’Byrne and now Hunwick, when we really had no idea who these guys were. They’re pretty good at assessing players, so we just gotta wait and see how Hunwick plays. His nickname isn’t Hunny, is it?
This are pretty much my thoughts too. I think that Hunwick will fit in with our team really well. I definitely think of him as a Liles-esque player, but one that slightly bigger and actually plays bigger. Watching his play from 08-09, I think he would work out really well for us. I am excited to see him, and altho I will miss Cohen, we are sending him home. And I imagine that a lot of Bostonites [Bostonians?] would be pumped to see a ‘hero’ BU player in a Bruins uniform.
Now, none of that changes our Defensive Bottleneck. As DDC listed above, the Avs have 9 NHL ready Dmen. True that one of those is still on the IR, and Footer may still be a little injured, but something here has got to budge. Its almost as if we brought up a player from Lake Erie that we can’t send back down. If something isn’t cooking to relieve this pressure, things are going to be terrible as we rip our hair out trying to figure out who will sit to make room.
Cohen wasn’t exactly lighting things up in the AHL [14GP, 1G, 0A, 0 +/-]. I know thats not the end-all be-all [see Shattenkirk, Kevin], but I wonder what really was going on. Don’t forget, too, that Monsters HC is David Quinn, recently of the NCAA National Championship in which Cohen had the winning goal. He’s pretty familiar with the guy, and Sacco trusts him with the BU connections and all. I don’t know if their opinions are taken into account by The Schrute and Co, but I think that they would at least as them what they think the kids’ potentials are.
I will continue to trust the organization, and PRAY that there is something else on the horizon to get us some winger depth and relieve the defensive bottleneck.
Thanks Joe...
i agree this trade was not made willy-nilly.
Each of my replies is a work of art, each more brilliant than the last.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Nov 29, 2010 8:39 PM MST up reply actions
Something that’s really likely to budge is Foote getting hurt again. Having too many D-men isn’t always such a bad problem to have.
I can guarantee that I will screw up his name after a few drinks…
Winnik is a fucking Win!
by Sandie Gauthier on Nov 29, 2010 9:22 PM MST reply actions
I have had a few drinks tonight. Are you talking about Hensick?
Younger and cheaper - Colorado Avalanche
Older and drunker - Me
why are we talking about TJ Galaradi?
/putsdowndrink
Each of my replies is a work of art, each more brilliant than the last.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Nov 29, 2010 9:34 PM MST up reply actions
The fact is Svatos gone and he’s not coming back.
The Savage has spoken. Let it be done
December, 1995 - In a strong statement that still resonates to this day, the Montreal Canadiens make it clear to Patrick Roy that the franchise will simply not tolerate championship-calibre goaltending.
DGB
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by, and that has made all the difference"
R. Frost
Isn’t Scott Young retired?
Each of my replies is a work of art, each more brilliant than the last.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Nov 29, 2010 9:59 PM MST up reply actions
How did Nederost even come up in this conversation?
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
Arnason?
Is that you?
Living in the D, but It's All About The A.
by Avalanche318 on Nov 30, 2010 8:41 AM MST up reply actions
This whole thing was just brilliant!
Sincerely,
Andrew Raycroft
Bitch, give me your lunch money.
by Cheryl Bradley on Nov 30, 2010 10:07 AM MST up reply actions
has anyone besides young worn 48 for the avs? He is already the 2nd best (#48) player the avs have ever had.
Each of my replies is a work of art, each more brilliant than the last.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Nov 29, 2010 9:36 PM MST reply actions
cumiskey for a year
It's all about the A-nderson
by Cole D Hamilton on Nov 29, 2010 9:40 PM MST up reply actions
and Scott Young
I am the most humble blogger of all time
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Nov 29, 2010 9:42 PM MST up reply actions
Not to mention that other Scott Young
The Savage has spoken. Let it be done
December, 1995 - In a strong statement that still resonates to this day, the Montreal Canadiens make it clear to Patrick Roy that the franchise will simply not tolerate championship-calibre goaltending.
DGB
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by, and that has made all the difference"
R. Frost
what ever happened to scotty young?
Each of my replies is a work of art, each more brilliant than the last.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Nov 29, 2010 10:00 PM MST up reply actions
Scott Parker?
Living in the D, but It's All About The A.
by Avalanche318 on Nov 30, 2010 8:42 AM MST up reply actions
Is my meter busted or did I miss something? At any rate, anyone know of a good site to see players broken down by number over a franchises history? I don’t think google likes the keywords I’m using.
Hockey- goddamn it's cool.
Avalanche db had the Avs jersey number history
The Savage has spoken. Let it be done
December, 1995 - In a strong statement that still resonates to this day, the Montreal Canadiens make it clear to Patrick Roy that the franchise will simply not tolerate championship-calibre goaltending.
DGB
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by, and that has made all the difference"
R. Frost
Sweet, thanks. Can’t believe I forgot about that. Know anything for league wide numbers?
Hockey- goddamn it's cool.
hockeydatabase?
Winnik is a fucking Win!
by Sandie Gauthier on Nov 29, 2010 10:42 PM MST up reply actions
Interesting that the Avs had no comments about trading Cohen
They were quick to comment on Bournival.
2010-11 Colorado Avalanche: The Asskickers of the Amazing
Also to note, for a slightly offensive minded defensmen Shattenkirk tied Hunwicks points for the season with his Minnesota performance alone. I hope their looking to his defensive strengths more than his playmaking because the latter doesnt feel needed unless liles is on his way out
It's all about the A-nderson
by Cole D Hamilton on Nov 29, 2010 10:11 PM MST reply actions
Hunwick has more points than current Avs stalwarts like Wilson, Cumiskey or Quincey.
Jonas Holøs- Putting the Ø in defense since 2010!
by niwotsblessing on Nov 29, 2010 10:17 PM MST up reply actions
Since he’s an Av now, calculation of his luck coefficient is simple. Take his Corsi and divide by zero.
2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: pretty good at hockey since they can't get into the bars yet.
I’m not sure this makes sense, but it may tell us when Sherman and Co believe that the Avs will be competing for the Cup.
Look at the ages of the last 4 defenseman that have been traded for:
Hunwick (25), O’Byrne (26), Quincey (25) and Wilson (23). Now the trades for Quincey and Wilson were essentially salary dumps (for Smyth) and playoff rentals (Leopold). However, both the Hunwick and O’Byrne trades have been for younger prospects. This suggests a shift in what Sherman is looking for and perhaps an acknowledgement that if he doesn’t accelerate the progress of the D-corps that the peak level of this part of the Avs will not match that of the forwards, which have come along a lot quicker than I think anyone could have anticipated.
Having said this, there are clearly too many defenseman on this roster and it would appear to be D-day for a defenseman soon.
I think there will be a multi-player trade to come and Hunwick is just part of it. Hunwick, Wilson + prospect for (insert forward name here). C Cohen may have been who Boston asked for.
We all know that the D is chock full at the moment, so this must be preparation for a trade further down the road.
I think the Avs should paraphrase the plaque on the statue of liberty – bring us your unloved and unwanted and we will turn them into bad-asses – cheaply!
It seems that Joe Sacco has a way of getting the best out of a player, but if they don’t respond, buh-bye. Mueller was a write-off and Winnik wasn’t wanted, O’Byrn has been solidly solid.
My opinion is worth about what you paid for it: Nothing.
On the subject of Wilson,
Does anyone else think he may still be feeling the effects of his concussion? Last year, he was a Mack truck, smashing any fool that got in his way.
Until he got concussed. Then he came back.
And got concussed again. Maybe now, he cannot play “instinctively,” as he could endanger himself and has to change his game accordingly. This might be causing hesitation or second-guessing whereas before, there was none.
My opinion is worth about what you paid for it: Nothing.
I was pretty sure that it was impossible for a fanbase to overreact MORE than we did after the Hishon pick in the draft.
Good on you for proving me wrong!
The Doctor Jones fanclub: Active for more games than Jones himself.
"Just Do Something" - Nike’s new logo for Bills apparel.
Paul McCartney Can't Play Piano
Burgundy Wave - SBnation's home for the MLS Cup 2010 Champion (!) Colorado Rapids
Glory, Glory, Colorado. The 'Pids go Marching on!
were you not around for the epic Nigel Williams / Brian Fahey discussions?
I am the most humble blogger of all time
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Nov 30, 2010 5:39 AM MST up reply actions
Actually, I wasn’t. If it was worse than this though, I think I’m regretting not being there :o
The Doctor Jones fanclub: Active for more games than Jones himself.
"Just Do Something" - Nike’s new logo for Bills apparel.
Paul McCartney Can't Play Piano
Burgundy Wave - SBnation's home for the MLS Cup 2010 Champion (!) Colorado Rapids
Glory, Glory, Colorado. The 'Pids go Marching on!
by UZ on Nov 30, 2010 5:58 AM MST up reply actions
in hindsight, those were pretty funny indeed. Avs apparently were totally right about Mr. Nigel.
"I’m predicting 50pts in the NHL for Hensick next season. Anyone want to put $20 on it?" - DetAvs, Jun 18, 2010 3:45 AM EDT
Again, just imagine what will happen on this blog if the Avs were to ever make a really big trade again? We’re approaching 24 hours of Hunwick, for crise sakes.
Your 2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: What's Luck Got to do with it?
by Bob in Boulder on Nov 30, 2010 10:06 AM MST up reply actions
Done and Done.
Each of my replies is a work of art, each more brilliant than the last.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Nov 30, 2010 12:33 PM MST up reply actions
Wow. Now imagine what would happen if the Avs made an even bigger trade? Like the Kyles and a young stud forward for a super stud d-man and an even studder forward?
Your 2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: What's Luck Got to do with it?
by Bob in Boulder on Nov 30, 2010 4:04 PM MST up reply actions
I don’t think we have the bandwidth.
Each of my replies is a work of art, each more brilliant than the last.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Nov 30, 2010 4:46 PM MST up reply actions
Why do we keep trading away prospects for defensemen when we’ve got enough of those who could (and maybe should) be traded anyway?
"Who?" -Joe Sacco’s post-game answer to how Todd Bertuzzi looks as a player these days.
So if another team needs to get rid of some salary, shouldn’t we be able to get one of their players for a prospect who’s “worse” than Cohen? A salary dump trade shouldn’t be even.
"Who?" -Joe Sacco’s post-game answer to how Todd Bertuzzi looks as a player these days.
We traded and got an NHL ready defenseman for a prospect. And a prospect is ONLY THAT, a prospect. He could be great, or he could be worthless. You trade an utterly unknown substance into something you know can be good.
Its like the Bournival trade. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, even if you hit them with the same stone and put screen doors on their submarines and leave.
Thanks Joe...
WTF???????
Two very questionable(at best!!) trades. Does this Sherman clown have any hockey experience/background?? Trade the future for current mediocracy?? Can’t see either move benefitting either now or in the future for sure!!
Just thinking out load:
The Avs management are of the opinion that the rebuild is progressing nicely in the forward corps, but aside from Shattenkirk they aren’t impressed with the blueline. They also don’t see this team going deep in the playoffs. They plan on having two open blueline roster spots next season (Hannan and Foote gone) and need to figure out what they have now. Therefore, Liles and Shatty are the only safe bets to still be wearing the Yeti foot next season. Everybody else is expendable. Hunwick is a guy they’ve had their eye on for years and think he is a better bet than Quincey, Cumiskey, Wilson, and O’Byrne as a lock for 2-6 defensemen. Expect another trade to bring in someone with the potential to be a top pairing anchor. Maybe not till the the dealine or off-season. They will also address scoring wing depth in the offseason as they will have plenty of cap space and won’t likely be in an over-priced bidding war like everybody was with Kovie this offseason. To me, it sets up for a nice opportunity to nab a Semin or similar this offseason/deadline.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
Counterpoint
Sherman is sitting in his office crying saying “I don’t know what I’m doing and Pierre Lacroix scares me.”
Each of my replies is a work of art, each more brilliant than the last.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Nov 30, 2010 9:44 AM MST up reply actions
Like a few other posters have said here, he isn’t very good in the defensive zone. At times he makes some costly turnovers in the neutral zone while trying to force the puck to the other side.
He isn’t awful, it’s just frustrating to see a D-man make bonehead plays in his own zone. To his defense though (no pun) he has gotten much better over the years and has some good playoff experience. He can also play forward if need be. I wouldn’t hate this deal if I were an Av’s fan but I wouldn’t be thrilled either.
I’m glad the B’s got rid of Hunwick. I sorta feel bad for you guys picking him up. I wish the Av’s the best of luck with them, though. At least you’re not in our conference.
Why didn’t you like him?
Your 2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: What's Luck Got to do with it?
by Bob in Boulder on Nov 30, 2010 10:07 AM MST up reply actions
Like a few other posters have said here, he isn’t very good in the defensive zone. At times he makes some costly turnovers in the neutral zone while trying to force the puck to the other side.
He isn’t awful, it’s just frustrating to see a D-man make bonehead plays in his own zone. To his defense though (no pun) he has gotten much better over the years and has some good playoff experience. He can also play forward if need be. I wouldn’t hate this deal if I were an Av’s fan but I wouldn’t be thrilled either.
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