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Concussions, what the heck is going on?



When Peter Muller got a concussion at the beginning of the season, I'll be honest, I didn't think too much about it.  Here was a young guy who had gotten a serious concussion the previous season, plays a few games and it gets re-injured.  The more I'm learning about concussions the more I am finding out that once you've had one, it's more likely that you'll suffer another one.  Then Adam Foote got one.  Okay, that sucked, I like Foote, I have since the Nords days.  Then, fan favorite, Ian Laperierre admitted to having head issues, from taking a puck to the face... a second time. What I found truly disturbing about his case is that this happened last season.  He missed about a month, then played in the playoffs.  Then, this year, he informs the team that he's having issues.  Then, this week, Kyle Cumiskey was also diagnosed with a concussion.  This leads me to pouring over research, papers, and information for hours to find out more about concussions in sport and what is happening.  I thought some of you may be interested so I'm going to share some of my findings.  Now, although I'm not known to be as verbose as Dario, I can be sometimes as well, so if you want  a short read, this is probably not the article for you.  There will be many links peppered in this as well, if you'd like to read more about it.

Star-divide

The first article I read was on CTV- Edmonton site. It discussed a recently released study that followed Junior players, and what it found was scary.

The hockey study followed 67 junior hockey players, aged 16 to 21, over the entire 2009-10 season and tracked the number and severity of their concussions, as well as how quickly they returned to play.

In the more than 50 games the doctors participating in the study observed, 21 players suffered concussions, five of them repeat concussions.

That was 3.3 times higher than in previous studies of concussions in hockey and led Dr. Paul Echlin to suggest that concussions are "occurring at epidemic proportions."

"Those are conservative numbers because of those not coming forward or those undiagnosed," he added.

And this is the really scary stat:

According to the Centers for Disease Control, sports-related concussions occur in the United States three million times per year, and among people ages 15 to 24 are now second only to motor vehicle accidents as a leading cause of traumatic brain injury.

There was a Mayo Clinic recently that discussed concussions as well:

One of the things analyzed was the "when" that a player got hit that lead to a concussion.


Comper and Hutchinson studied video of the 260 reported concussions sustained in the N.H.L. between October 2006 and January 2010 (that’s an average of about 75 per season, a figure confirmed by Dr. Ruben J. Echemendia, the N.H.L.’s chief neuropsychologist). Comper described some of their findings: About 44 percent of the players who sustained reported concussions were hit after having just released the puck (defined as having passed it within 0.3 seconds before the hit). Some 31 percent of concussed players did not have the puck at all when they were hit. Just 25 percent of concussed N.H.L.’ers had the puck when they were hit. The upshot: almost 75 percent of N.H.L. players who sustained a concussion were not expecting the hit because they did not have the puck.

And they also looked at the "what" that the player was being hit by:

Comper said that of the concussions he and Hutchinson analyzed, the initial contact in 60 percent of them came from the shoulder; 16 percent from the elbow; 13 percent from the gloves; and 10 percent from other parts of the body. For the great majority of each of those, the blows were targeted to the head.

 

Another Canadian website released some information recently about concussions in hockey, CBC , in particular they talked about a young 19 year old who got concussed while playing in net. This brought up a scary point, if you are letting the players chose when they'll be back, they won't necessarily make the right choices.  Especially young guys.

"Coaches, trainers asked me if I'm OK…well of course I'm OK — I want to play, right?" he said. "That's one issue trainers [and] coaches need to know so they can say, 'You're not going to play.' Yeah it's been tough…no one really sees the dark side of it."

But it's not just the young guys, when faced with the decision of playing or staying in suits that will make the wrong choice.  The well loved, Ian Laperriere made that same choice

 

He didn’t feel good over the summer or at training camp, and skating a few strides Saturday at Staples Center, his first venture onto the ice in six weeks, left him uncomfortable.

"The lights and everything irritated me quite a bit and when you’re out there, that’s all it is. Light and movement. That’s why I can’t deal with it," he said. "Regular stuff, I’m fine with my kids at home.

"One of my biggest fears is not if, it’s when I’m going to get hit again. The way I play it’s a matter of time. Punches or hits or anything. I’ve got to be smart about that.

"Last year was different. I got caught in the moment. I lied to be part of the Stanley Cup run. I was lucky enough not to get hit again."

 

I was glad to read that he wasn't affected when he was at home with his kids, but disturbed that he was playing that injured.  He really was lucky that he didn't get hit, a clean but hard hit, during that time. 

What I keep reading over and over again is the lack of education on concussions.  From the doctors, coaches, althetes, fans and parents.  One of the more somber reads I had was Kevin Kaminski's story.  It was a  terrifying read, and one that I think players need to be made aware of.  I think they need to get the players, coaches and GM's in a room and listen to his wife speak about their experiences for one hour, then guys like Lappy, probably wouldn't be quite so quick to play while injured.  For those of you who don't know, Kevin Kaminski is a former NHL'er who, even with his lacking size, played the role of Enforcer.It was hardly his first concussion and so they didn't think anything of it, but it got worse.

The symptoms were long-lasting: insomnia, irritability, vertigo, sensitivity to light. He couldn't exercise because of headaches as soon as he got his heart rate up. His memory shot, he couldn't find his car after shopping for groceries. He'd forget his PIN number at the bank machine – it was his jersey number.

 But then things became *real* bad.  And I don't mean, oh he won't play hockey again bad, I mean... he's going to do serious damage bad... Megan, his wife, discussed it.

Megan Kaminski had stopped asking her husband to help with the kids. He'd always been a great partner and incredibly devoted to his little girls, but now he couldn't stand to be around them.

"He'd be mad, he would swear," she said. "It was like living with a complete stranger. He was totally a different person. I couldn't talk to him or rationalize with him. The girls didn't understand anything that was going on with him. It was, `Where's Daddy?'"

But one night she had a deadline to meet for some writing and asked Kevin to get the girls out of the bath and into their pyjamas. She soon found Lexi crying at her office door.

"She said, `Daddy's really mad and he's scaring me.' I was bending down in front of her and the bedroom door opened from our master bedroom and he came flying down the hallway and he picked her up by one hand and he cocked his fist back."

Somehow Megan got her daughter out of harm's way and push the feared enforcer into the walk-in closet in their bedroom.

Now, they did sit down some guys and have Megan tell this story... but not nearly enough of them.  The reaction they got was not a pretty sight:

Kevin was approached by many of the players he once battled against.

"They were pulling Kevin aside and saying, `Can I give you a call some time? Sometimes when I fight, I black out in the middle of it,'" said Megan Kaminski. "One guy said that over the past couple of years, he's had this straight black line that goes across the middle of his eyes. Unbelievable stuff.

"These guys all know that they're replaceable and I know that scares the hell out of them. They want to do whatever it takes. They'll lie. They just don't care. They just want to get back out there and not lose their spot. I understand. This is all these guys know.

"But until you've lived with it and you see it's just an absolute nightmare, you just can't understand how bad it can be to just ignore those symptoms."

For one day anyway, the players in that room got the message.

"That room of big strong men broke down," said Megan Kaminski.

"It was like, 'Holy s--t, that could happen to me.'"

 

 

There are quite a number of quotes that paint Collin Campbell in an unfortunate light in that article, when it comes to hits to the head and concussions.  I've decided not to write them out, because the article is three years old, and I hope by now his mind has changed and he's realized the error of his ways, but feel free to read it.

Here is a list of 30 players who had their careers cut short due to concussions. Some of the more notable ones are:

  • Eric Lindros
  • Steve Moore
  • Keith Primeau
  • Adam Deadmarsh
  • Kevin Kaminski

Speaking of Eric Lindros , yeah I'm still bitter,   they interviewed him, and what one of the things he said.. well, to be honest they reminded me of what we said about Ryan Wilson after he came back from a concussion:

"It’s not necessarily the voices in your head saying slow down or be careful or maybe play a different style. It’s the hand-eye coordination. It’s the things that you never had to think about before that now you have to practice. Never had to think about before.

So maybe Wilson wasn't playing timid because he wanted to, maybe it's just that he actually *couldn't*.

 

Here's another player statement, Nick Kypreos, this time on the Hockey Canada website


You give your lumps, you take your lumps.' Nick Kypreos didn't count on the career-ending concussion he suffered in a fight during an exhibition game against the New York Rangers. 'I lost my helmet and hit my head on the ice. It's like a dream you can't remember. Within one hour everything started to come back into focus. I was being asked how I was feeling and if I could go back on the ice to finish the game.'

Players should not be asked that question. 'They're too emotional to answer. You just want everyone to forget it ever happened...to keep playing hockey. Since I was seven-years-old, I've been told to 'shake it off', 'dust off the cobwebs', 'suck it up' and you'll be fine.' Unfortunately he found out that that is not always true. 'The days of sniffing smelling salts are over', he said. 'You can see a knee or a shoulder injury but you can't see a head injury, so there is always the question of 'how hurt is he?'.

 

Marc Savard has also been battling depression along with his concussion:

At that time he admitted he was also suffering from depression, and when asked Tuesday morning how he's been dealing with that, Savard said he's being helped professionally and wants to keep it personal.

"Obviously, that's the toughest thing to talk about, so I'll keep that to myself," he said. "I'm obviously still having some issues with that, but being around the guys, and getting the doctor's help that I'm getting, things are going up. I still have my down days, that's for sure, but I'm getting by."

You know that 19 year old goalie I mentioned?  well, he came up again, this time more in depth  and they brought up a good point:

"On Hockey Night in Canada, they did a thing on Taylor Hall getting rammed into the boards, finishing the game and scoring that goal in Brandon and then they bring the GM of the Oilers on and he says ‘That’s when we knew he was a great hockey player,’" said Madigan.

"No. You’re encouraging that stigma (you’re not tough enough if you don’t play hurt). That’s why I finished my game. Who knows what might have happened if I didn’t."]

This all brings me to the  Cascade M11. The helmet that claims to reduce concussions.

Kevin Westgarth:

"I tried it and I loved it.  From everything I hear, they’re great for concussions, and its nice because they tighten around your head, so it’s a good, solid fit, real comfortable.  I’ve been in three fights so far and it hasn’t come off yet. Sometimes I like to get the hair out there, but I guess I’ll take the punches off my helmet as opposed to off my head.  You don’t really notice it, minute to minute, but you do feel that it tightens the whole head, as opposed to front to back. So definitely it feels real snug and it feels good. You don’t really notice it, and that’s the idea."

One last link Jeromy Roenick ,who says he suffered around 13 concussions in his career.

 

He remembered one hit that wiped out his memory of the incident completely, causing a serious concussion. He played the next night and had a hat trick.

"We get on the ice, we're on the ice and we know what we're getting into," he said. "We know our life can change from one game to the next."

Both Boston Bruins center Marc Savard and Philadelphia Flyers forward Ian Laperriere returned for the playoffs in the spring following concussions last season. Neither has played since.

The warrior mentality that drives an athlete to be the best at his sport can also get in the way of staying healthy.

The truth is, some players need to be protected from themselves.

 

"No matter what the rules are -- if you respect the game and you respect the players you play against, you play hard but you play fair," Calgary Flames forward Olli Jokinen told Sporting  News. "It doesn't really matter what kind of rules they make or what kind of changes they make, if there's no respect among the players, you're still going to see headshots."

Now, this brings me to my last thoughts and points, for now anyway, is that unfortunately this is going to have to start with the players.  Yes, I read that people are blaming a lack of respect among the guys as a reason for the bad hits. But I think that the guys are now a) a lot bigger and b) a lot faster than they used to be.  Not only that, but people are more aware of not only concussions but the effects and how to handle it now. 

The players need to do a few things for themselves.  They need to use their mouth guards as protection, not chew toys (you aren't a labrador, Hunny) , the thing that seems to set the M11 helmet apart from all the other helmets out there is the fit. It's tight and fitted all around the players head. Well, if that makes a significant difference, then the players should, at the very least, ensure that their helmets are on properly and secure.  I mean, they run ads every year aimed at children for their bike helmets, using scaring tactics... what's scarier than being so hurt you almost strike your own child?

There is good: there isn't the stigmata around concussions that used to exist.  The fact that the Avs make their players sit so long after having experienced a concussion, while frustrating for the fans (and the players), it's really in the best interest of the guys.  Hockey is a business after all, they can't have their best product discarded in the clearance bin. The coaching staff, team doctors, and players are starting to take it more seriously, that's the reason more guys are sitting in the press box, eating popcorn. 

Since people seem to want to compare hockey to ten years ago, they want to say there is now a lack of respect... but maybe, just maybe, it's the opposite. Maybe now the teams actually respect the players more, forcing them to sit while injured. Taking part in the Mayo clinic, while the NHL didn't pay for it, they gave them access to all game footage... these may seem like small steps but at least they are steps.

MileHighHockey.com is a fan community, allowing members to post their own thoughts and opinions on the Colorado Avalanche and hockey in general. These views and thoughts may not be shared by the editors of MileHighHockey.com.

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well done. a very nice read

It's all about the A-nderson

by Cole D Hamilton on Nov 3, 2010 11:13 PM MDT reply actions  

Scary as hell

but exceedingly well done. Thanks Sandie.

Rec’d.

2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: pretty good at hockey since they can't get into the bars yet.

by Hopfenkopf on Nov 3, 2010 11:31 PM MDT reply actions  

I thought some of it was scary too.

Winnik is a fucking Win!

by Sandie Gauthier on Nov 4, 2010 8:02 AM MDT up reply actions  

Thanks Sandie!

Very well done.
Scary stuff.

"That's what We DO"-Paul Stastny
"That F******* sandwich had it coming!" -Mike@MHH
Thanks for the Avatar Jibs, I borrowed it from your website ;)

by gl avfan on Nov 4, 2010 2:21 AM MDT reply actions  

Thanks Sandie, great read and very informative. Something I didn’t see mentioned above is that concussions can also occur from a whiplash type of injury, even without a direct blow to the head. Blake’s hit on Mueller last year is an example of that type of injury. Mentioning Blake of course brings up the issue of officiating, and the lack of calls in many situations. The fact that Peter Forsberg lost his spleen after a playoff game is evidence enough that officiating is key to protecting players and reducing injuries.

As for players respecting one another, I don’t get the sense that they don’t, but they have an big incentive for doing what it takes to get into and stay in the NHL. I doubt many folks around here pull down league minimum in our work lives, there’s a lot of money at stake for these guys, enough to get set up for the rest of one’s life after even a modest career. So as Sandie noted above, these guys will do what they can for the financial payoff, and for the chance to win the Cup.

Jonas Holøs- Putting the Ø in defense since 2010!

by niwotsblessing on Nov 4, 2010 7:23 AM MDT reply actions  

Well, you said you were going to, and you did.

GREAT job!!

I thought it was pretty Osgood to take a Bertuzzi behind the Draper, but it ended up blowing the Abdelkader of my Kronwall.

by chiavsfan on Nov 4, 2010 7:29 AM MDT reply actions  

Thanks everyone.

Winnik is a fucking Win!

by Sandie Gauthier on Nov 4, 2010 8:00 AM MDT reply actions  

Thanks Sandie.

I’ve written this here before, but my son had to quit hockey last year at about this time because of his 3rd major concussion over a 4 and a half year span. His first happened when he was 12 and got decked by a much larger and stronger player. He was rendered unconscious on the ice for a couple of minutes and was nauseous for about 2 days after. Once the nausea went away and the mild dizziness, the doctors cleared him to play again. His next game was 2 weeks later (way too soon we know now with hindsight). We had ordered a new helmet with better protection, but it had not arrived. He played and got hit in the head again. He sat out only a shift, but the dizziness came back that night and he missed the next practice. Doctors said he was fine to play if he felt OK. He’s a tough kid that lives and breathes hockey. He wasn’t going to say anything that kept him off the ice (hindsight again).

We had one clear season and then another big concussion at the end of Bantams. He took a deliberate elbow to the side of the head at the glass. He dropped like a sack of wet cement. He didn’t play again that year because of a slow recovery, but was fine for camps during the summer.

He finished his first season of Midget Minor without issue, but early in his second season came the clincher. He played through the first period of a game, and then never played another shift. We saw him laying down behind the bench during the second period, and he was too wobbly to get to the locker room on his own. My wife and I were both at the game, and neither of us saw the hit. He doesn’t remember it, nor do any of his teammates. It may have been a little bump in the wrong spot. The obvious post-concussion symptoms lasted more than 2 weeks this time. It’s now a year later and he’s still complaining of pain deep in his head. He’s scheduled for an MRI in the next couple of weeks. He’s always been a moody kid, but his personality has taken a darker turn in the last year. He’s 17, so some of it can be attributed to his age, but the concussion is probably contributing.

My recommendations for parents:
1. Buy the best helmet that you can find. Not “afford”. FIND. If you cannot afford the best helmet, you can’t afford hockey. There are no braces for an injured brain. There are no crutches, no wheelchair.
2. If your child complains of a headache after practice or a game, take it very seriously.
3. Your family doctor probably is not up to date on concussion research. Seek specialist help in the event of a concussion.

Detroit is peopled entirely by slovenly ill-informed troglodytes, excepting of course the few Avalanche fans who are victims of unfortunate circumstance.

by Busted Twigg on Nov 4, 2010 10:24 AM MDT reply actions  

Frak. Scary stuff Twiggy. Thanks for sharing and best wishes to you & your family in dealing with the impacts of the on ice impacts!

2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: pretty good at hockey since they can't get into the bars yet.

by Hopfenkopf on Nov 4, 2010 10:58 AM MDT up reply actions  

This is a personal hot-button item. I’m seeing my son’s friends headed to Junior, NCAA, and even Major Junior. My son wasn’t that good, but the age of NHL players is getting really close. Mueller is 5 years older than my son. He’s really still a kid with a ton of future beyond hockey. Duchene and O’Reilly are 2 years older. When you have a kid that age, these players become a little more real as people.

Detroit is peopled entirely by slovenly ill-informed troglodytes, excepting of course the few Avalanche fans who are victims of unfortunate circumstance.

by Busted Twigg on Nov 4, 2010 11:53 AM MDT up reply actions  

I can imagine. I admit, I knew very little about concussions, but the more I read the more scared I became for these kids.

Winnik is a fucking Win!

by Sandie Gauthier on Nov 4, 2010 12:01 PM MDT up reply actions  

Great job Sandie. Interesting stuff. I’m pretty concerned about Mueller, to be sure. I hope the new helmet can save his career. Another question is, if this new helmet is that much better at protecting against concussions, shouldn’t everyone be wearing it?

Your 2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Reaching Up to the Cap Floor

by Bob in Boulder on Nov 4, 2010 10:38 AM MDT reply actions   1 recs

Another question is, if this new helmet is that much better at protecting against concussions, shouldn’t everyone be wearing it?

This is exactly what I’ve been asking myself for some time. Is the NHLPA is such disarray that it can’t even see to the immediate protection of its membership’s noggins? WTF????

2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: pretty good at hockey since they can't get into the bars yet.

by Hopfenkopf on Nov 4, 2010 10:59 AM MDT up reply actions  

I've actually asked this of Dater

And I asked him if the rest of the Avs were going to be fitted for the new buckets, he said he’d be investigating it.

Winnik is a fucking Win!

by Sandie Gauthier on Nov 4, 2010 11:22 AM MDT up reply actions  

I’m sure there are endorsement contracts to deal with. The helmets are from Cascade, and they don’t have the penetration of Nike or even Mission among the players.

Detroit is peopled entirely by slovenly ill-informed troglodytes, excepting of course the few Avalanche fans who are victims of unfortunate circumstance.

by Busted Twigg on Nov 4, 2010 11:56 AM MDT up reply actions  

As they are just starting to get recognition for their effectiveness, it doesn’t surprise me that they aren’t more widely used. However, as more players start to use them and report positive experiences (like the one above), I suspect you will see them more often. I truly hope, given how many concussions the Avs are having this year, that they seriously consider it. What a great endorsement possibility for Cascade, having an entire franchise wear your gear.

Bitch, give me your lunch money.

by Cheryl Bradley on Nov 4, 2010 3:59 PM MDT up reply actions  

agreed, they should also have to wear helmets correctly. The league wouldn’t let player play with their pads outside of the sweater, so tighten up that chin strap. Maybe a $500 or $1000 fine (donated to the players assistance fund) for each game the players are caught with incorrectly worn equipment from here on out per game.

From Aebischer to Yip, excluding Young.

by An Unmitigated Disaster on Nov 4, 2010 4:05 PM MDT up reply actions  

I am interested in your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: pretty good at hockey since they can't get into the bars yet.

by Hopfenkopf on Nov 4, 2010 4:12 PM MDT up reply actions  

I don’t think many of the players would….

From Aebischer to Yip, excluding Young.

by An Unmitigated Disaster on Nov 4, 2010 6:24 PM MDT up reply actions  

What about mouthguards? Some players don’t use them, some like Patrick Kane don’t use them properly.

My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL.

by red army line on Nov 12, 2010 11:53 AM MST up reply actions  

I’d say alot of its endorsement delas thats stopping them.; If Cascade isn’t an NHL approved manufacturer that’s paid it’s fees then they probably aren’t allowed to be advertised i an official NHL event. I’m pretty sure thats how it works with goalie gear anyway, I recall reading something about that but I could also be completly wrong

The Savage has spoken. Let it be done

December, 1995 - In a strong statement that still resonates to this day, the Montreal Canadiens make it clear to Patrick Roy that the franchise will simply not tolerate championship-calibre goaltending.
DGB

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by, and that has made all the difference"
R. Frost

by Savage33 on Nov 5, 2010 2:34 AM MDT up reply actions  

For another gut wrenching first hand account,
Read my friend Emily’s comment on my FB link to this story.
Long story short, she suffered a traumatic brain injury in her Spohmpre year of college. She’s now 32 and still has major effects. Things like she often can’t remember how to tie her shoes or which pedal does what in her car.
She leads a happy life as the mother of 2 little boys but still faces incredible challenges every day.

"That's what We DO"-Paul Stastny
"That F******* sandwich had it coming!" -Mike@MHH
Thanks for the Avatar Jibs, I borrowed it from your website ;)

by gl avfan on Nov 4, 2010 12:22 PM MDT reply actions  

Oh wow...

How hard that must have been for her~

Winnik is a fucking Win!

by Sandie Gauthier on Nov 4, 2010 12:44 PM MDT up reply actions  

Good read (if you can call this stuff “good”).

Comper said that of the concussions he and Hutchinson analyzed, the initial contact in 60 percent of them came from the shoulder;

I’ve got a friend who’s always complaining about how huge and rock-hard shoulder pads are. I mean, we’ve seen a suspension this year for a “blind side hit” that was really just a guy trying to get to the puck on the boards, but his shoulder pads clipped his opponent in the face. How legit is that as an issue here?

Also a big, resounding +1 to the League adopting the anti-concussion buckets. It blows my mind that it’s still optional.

It's all about the Ø

by SteveHouse on Nov 4, 2010 1:57 PM MDT reply actions  

I'd agree with that

When I played, which only ended about 4 years ago, I wore the same pair of shoulder pads throughout midget and high school. I found them in my first year of midget hockey. They were a pair of used Bauer shoulder pads. I hated most of Bauer’s equipment, but they were soft, and they weren’t very big. Just enough to keep any hit from the puck, another player, or a stick from hurting.

I tried on some other pairs, but never even went so far as trying one on the ice. They were all too big, they had hard shells on them, and they were restrictive. I was always bigger than most everyone else (I was 6’2", 185 in middle school, and I’m ~6’3", 240 today two weeks shy of my 22nd birthday), though I didn’t fully realize it. Still, I was aware that most weren’t my size, but that goes away when guys have huge equipment. I always remember looking at guys and thinking, "They’re so ******* big, even if they were smaller than me.

By far the worst, though, were the elbow pads. I finally acquiesced and got a new pair when my old ones just wore out, but for the last 2 years, I wore junior size elbow pads. I still didn’t like that the point on the elbow was hard and stuck out. An elbow pad can do more damage than anything short of a skate blade or a deliberate swing with a stick. I hated them, and I still do. The only equipment that I liked to have a hard shell on was my cup and my shin pads. The others were uncomfortable, and I thought dangerous.

"All NHL officials dread running into commissioner Gary Bettman since they inevitably end up having to spend an hour explaining why they don't call traveling more often." - DGB

by wtnelson on Nov 4, 2010 4:08 PM MDT up reply actions  

I’ve always given my mates crap for wearing shoulder pads that are essentially paper(Sherwood 5530’s I think, definetly Sherwood) but I’ve never really thought how much of a difference they’d actually make. They seem to offer no protection at all but I guess hitting someone wouldn’t KO the other guy.

The Savage has spoken. Let it be done

December, 1995 - In a strong statement that still resonates to this day, the Montreal Canadiens make it clear to Patrick Roy that the franchise will simply not tolerate championship-calibre goaltending.
DGB

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by, and that has made all the difference"
R. Frost

by Savage33 on Nov 5, 2010 2:37 AM MDT up reply actions  

so, why don’t we pad the outside of shoulder/all pads too? like, the NHL and various leagues make that a mandatory requirement? seriously, how much would THAT help?

bonus if the padding is that stuff for bicycle seats. mmm gel….

"I’m predicting 50pts in the NHL for Hensick next season. Anyone want to put $20 on it?" - DetAvs, Jun 18, 2010 3:45 AM EDT

by thedoctor on Nov 4, 2010 5:40 PM MDT up reply actions  

In fairness

Hockey shoulder pads are much softer than football ones.

Quitter's People United: Member #19

by airforcefoo on Nov 4, 2010 6:22 PM MDT up reply actions  

nerf.

From Aebischer to Yip, excluding Young.

by An Unmitigated Disaster on Nov 4, 2010 6:25 PM MDT up reply actions  

I mentioned this in another thread, but I recently had my 4th or so concussion (none within the last 15 years or so) so it’s very interesting, I did it Tuesday night, I’ll let you all know when I feel completely normal. Still feeling queezy sometimes but I do feel ‘sharper’ than i did even yesterday.

From Aebischer to Yip, excluding Young.

by An Unmitigated Disaster on Nov 4, 2010 4:09 PM MDT reply actions  

Looks like we’re not the only ones who think you did an awesome job on this article, Sandie. You’ve been linked on From The Rink (although their link isn’t working for some reason, unfortunately.)

Bitch, give me your lunch money.

by Cheryl Bradley on Nov 4, 2010 4:29 PM MDT reply actions  

Whoa...!

(oh, and it doesn’t work because they are missing the “n” at the end of the URL)

Winnik is a fucking Win!

by Sandie Gauthier on Nov 4, 2010 4:35 PM MDT up reply actions  

I added a comment with the correct link.

Bitch, give me your lunch money.

by Cheryl Bradley on Nov 4, 2010 4:36 PM MDT up reply actions  

Awe...

thanks for saying I did a good job. :)

Winnik is a fucking Win!

by Sandie Gauthier on Nov 4, 2010 4:38 PM MDT up reply actions  

Fighting has to stop

I know this is unpopular amongst Canadiens, and hardly the only solution, but it’s clear to me that it’s not worth the danger. Real hockey fans aren’t watching for the fights, and as much as we love to talk about the “code” and players doing what it takes to fire up their teammates, it’s truly entirely incidental to the game. The danger of guys punching each other in the head with bare knuckles on solid ice with what we know about head injuries really shouldn’t be tolerated in civilized society.

Quitter's People United: Member #19

by airforcefoo on Nov 4, 2010 6:32 PM MDT reply actions  

The study they did said 6% of concussions came from fights. That’s a pretty big percentage considering times of fights vs game time.

I like that there is fighting in the NHL, but I like it not for the fights, but because i think without hockey fights being allowed there would be bench clearing brawls instead.

Winnik is a fucking Win!

by Sandie Gauthier on Nov 4, 2010 9:39 PM MDT up reply actions  

Then they should wear something like MMA gloves underneath that won’t hurt as much as bare knuckles

The Savage has spoken. Let it be done

December, 1995 - In a strong statement that still resonates to this day, the Montreal Canadiens make it clear to Patrick Roy that the franchise will simply not tolerate championship-calibre goaltending.
DGB

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by, and that has made all the difference"
R. Frost

by Savage33 on Nov 5, 2010 2:39 AM MDT up reply actions  

Yes, this I agree with fully.

Winnik is a fucking Win!

by Sandie Gauthier on Nov 5, 2010 8:36 AM MDT up reply actions  

me too. i’d rather make fighting safer then eliminate it and get the sticks up like in college hockey (I think the full face shield is part of that too, but no fighting is definitely a factor).

From Aebischer to Yip, excluding Young.

by An Unmitigated Disaster on Nov 5, 2010 8:44 AM MDT up reply actions  

That’s where my thinking is. The enforcer rule is no good, they should eliminate that, and I think some of the more viscous hits will be gone.

Winnik is a fucking Win!

by Sandie Gauthier on Nov 5, 2010 8:47 AM MDT up reply actions  

Question then. Do all players have to wear the additional gloves? or just those prone to fight?

Would a Joe Sakic wear the gloves? Marek Svatos? Or just guys like Koci, Liffiton, Stewart)

The Avs defense is "air tight"....so air tight it's gasping for air and turning purple.

by Americanario on Nov 5, 2010 11:59 AM MDT up reply actions  

maybe you redesign the existing gloves so you don’t drop them you keep them on.

From Aebischer to Yip, excluding Young.

by An Unmitigated Disaster on Nov 5, 2010 1:52 PM MDT up reply actions  

Good question

I’d make all the useless enforcers(I’m looking at you Koci, don’t keep eating that popcorn while I’m talking to you) wear them and if the designs good and doesn’t interfere with their stick handling everyone would wear them, if not then at the start only the guys with say 5 fighting majors a year wear them. Hopefully it’d cut down on stupid fights like Crosby’s. I’m not ahuge fan of watching him play every week, thanks VS, but I don’t want to see him miss a few weeks because he broke his hand in a stupid fight. Same with Hejduk, Stastny and Duchene

The Savage has spoken. Let it be done

December, 1995 - In a strong statement that still resonates to this day, the Montreal Canadiens make it clear to Patrick Roy that the franchise will simply not tolerate championship-calibre goaltending.
DGB

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by, and that has made all the difference"
R. Frost

by Savage33 on Nov 5, 2010 6:05 PM MDT up reply actions  

the more i think about if you going to make people who fight wear gloves what happens when someone like crosby drops the glove, he has a slight advantage with his knuckles on skin. I think you might be better off redesigning the glove. besides most glove protect the wrists worth a crap anyway.

Each of my replies is a work of art, each more brilliant than the last.

by An Unmitigated Disaster on Nov 8, 2010 6:52 PM MST up reply actions  

I thought about this earlier aswell. If you added a minor penalty for not wearing the gloves it’d make the “star” players think twice if they don’t have the gloves on and the coaches would probably tell them to stop fighting or wear the gloves. Redesigning the gloves would probably be easier

The Savage has spoken. Let it be done

December, 1995 - In a strong statement that still resonates to this day, the Montreal Canadiens make it clear to Patrick Roy that the franchise will simply not tolerate championship-calibre goaltending.
DGB

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by, and that has made all the difference"
R. Frost

by Savage33 on Nov 9, 2010 3:18 AM MST up reply actions  

Real hockey fans aren’t watching for the fights

I disagree with this statement vehemently. I think a lot of real hockey fans love the fights.

(As an aside, I hate the term real fans. It implies that following a team one way is better than another. The only non-real NHL fans are Red Wings fans)

Your mama so ugly they call her "The Avs Powerplay"
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time

by Jibblescribbits on Nov 5, 2010 10:09 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

And to your aside: It is used way too frequently at MHR against those not drinking the koolaid.

Your 2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Reaching Up to the Cap Floor

by Bob in Boulder on Nov 5, 2010 12:12 PM MDT up reply actions  

Real fans don’t question MHR, or Josh McDaniels

Your mama so ugly they call her "The Avs Powerplay"
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time

by Jibblescribbits on Nov 5, 2010 2:34 PM MDT up reply actions  

The Avs defense is "air tight"....so air tight it's gasping for air and turning purple.

by Americanario on Nov 5, 2010 3:40 PM MDT up reply actions  

They won’t have to much longer if the donkeys’ woes keep up. McD won’t be around to criticize.

Hockey- goddamn it's cool.

by TheRed on Nov 5, 2010 4:07 PM MDT up reply actions  

He’ll be around at least through the end of the year. At this point, Bowlen is paying McD and Shannahan. He won’t pay yet another coach for the same year.

2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: pretty good at hockey since they can't get into the bars yet.

by Hopfenkopf on Nov 5, 2010 5:28 PM MDT up reply actions  

Real fans are at the games, I’ve never seen anyone go for a beer or look away in disgust during a fight—in fact the whole house stands up and cheers.

From Aebischer to Yip, excluding Young.

by An Unmitigated Disaster on Nov 5, 2010 1:53 PM MDT up reply actions  

I think it’s awful that so many guys get concussions from fighting, but I don’t think it’s something that should be done away with. Obviously guys get really worked up emotionally during games and I think it can be a lot safer to just let two guys drop the gloves than it is to let them build up their anger and start making dangerous runs at each other. I think the lack of respect issue is pretty big. There are absolutely guys out there who intend to injure other players and often walk away without consequences.

by xskatebakerrx on Nov 7, 2010 4:57 AM MDT up reply actions  

if the game was called better there would be a little less anger fueling those fights.

Each of my replies is a work of art, each more brilliant than the last.

by An Unmitigated Disaster on Nov 8, 2010 6:53 PM MST up reply actions  

Wow.

Absolutely great read. Wish I’d clicked this earlier.

by Stazz21 on Nov 4, 2010 8:43 PM MDT reply actions  

Thank you.

Winnik is a fucking Win!

by Sandie Gauthier on Nov 4, 2010 9:40 PM MDT up reply actions  

Excellent article

I am curious as to which of two games (hockey or football) is more concussion prone…

I love watching both the games.. but lately i am finding myself questioning football especially with so many injuries and concussion that the players are subjected too…

I would not encourage my son to play both of this games…

by Kumar_98 on Nov 6, 2010 11:11 PM MDT reply actions  

Awesome article, I definitely learned a lot. Brain injuries are serious bussiness and I think players should be doing everything they can to prevent them. I’m a strong believer in personal responsibility and so while I don’t necessarily believe that the league should be able to make so many personal mandates for players, I do believe that they need to make sure guys are fully educated as to the severity of brain injuries and that the “suck up your injury” mentality needs to be eradicated.

by xskatebakerrx on Nov 7, 2010 5:03 AM MDT reply actions  

Yeah, that’s why I think all the guy should have to listen to Kaminski.

Winnik is a fucking Win!

by Sandie Gauthier on Nov 7, 2010 8:00 AM MST up reply actions  

Don’t want to sound like a commercial, but I researched the heck out of the M11 after my little guy (9) bumped heads at school (playing football) and shifted us into concussion worry mode. Turns out his symptoms were shock from his broken nose and a reaction to blood in his stomach, but our productive panic led us to do a lot of research and make a great decision.

[T]he thing that seems to set the M11 helmet apart from all the other helmets out there is the fit. It’s tight and fitted all around the players head.

It is also a whole new cushioning system utilizing different materials that cushion better on the initial impact, but spring back faster than the traditional foam, making it progressively better on the successive impacts that can occur in hockey over the course of a second or two (i.e. player, boards, ice). The foam compresses on the initial hit, leaving little capacity to absorb the second and third impact to the head.

Supposedly too, it’s one-piece outer shell (which other high end helmets have) disperses force over a greater area.

The helmet runs about $140, ($200 is the top end in my son’s size) which is less than some players’ parents—even at the squirt level— shell out for a stick.
When we bought the helmet, (which we could not do locally) the guy at the hockey shop said they were selling a ton of them to kids my son’s age.
Now, part of his post game report always includes a count of how many other players wore his helmet.

So it looks like grassroots concussion concern is making a difference, but s l o w l y. If that is a significant, it will still take a decade for this to permeate the NHL.

"I just had a chicken finger and it was terrific." Gary Bettman

by Rapierwhitt on Nov 8, 2010 2:53 AM MST reply actions  

I applaud you for being this proactive for your son. He’s lucky to have parents that care so much about him .

"That's what We DO"-Paul Stastny
"That F******* sandwich had it coming!" -Mike@MHH
Thanks for the Avatar Jibs, I borrowed it from your website ;)

by gl avfan on Nov 8, 2010 8:00 AM MST up reply actions  

I’m pretty late to the party, but this was an excellent article. My thoughts are out there for Busted, Rapier, and Unmitigated for concussion issues connected to them and theirs. I am glad this is being addressed, if slowly, and that its becoming better recognized.

Thanks Joe...

by mfured20 on Nov 8, 2010 10:16 PM MST reply actions  

This is one of the best articles I have ever read

And no, I am not joking. This is up there, for me, with Copper & Gold’s story about Brian Burke’s son coming out. Well researched and thought-provoking. Well done Sandie.

I had no idea of the horrible issues surrounding concussions. Kaminski’s story was truly horrendous, as Lappy’s admissions of playing concussed were. We know that Lappy is a dedicated family guy and one of the truly decent examples of the human species, but he needs to look after himself and his family first and for once, hockey needs to be unimportant to him.

The league needs to adopt these helmets now. Even if it means sticking Nike logos onto the Cascades helmet (kicking back money to Cascade).

If you had a Bugatti Veyron, or Ferrari Enzo on the drive, you wouldn’t put budget oil in it, or bounce them off curbs, or wash them with rocks. So with players costing up to 10 times the price of those cars (looking at you, Kovy) why would you give them cheap-ass helmets that do nothing to protect that investment?

Also, why are shoulder pads rigid? The league should make them softer, or deformable in the case of an impact, so that energy is dispersed, not redirected towards someone’s brain.

One thing is for sure, no hockey player will voluntarily say “sorry coach, don’t feel too good,” before a game, so players need to be protected from themselves.

My opinion is worth about what you paid for it: Nothing.

by Nemesis44UK on Nov 10, 2010 3:11 AM MST reply actions  

Thank you

These are questions I’ve been asking myself since I looked up all this information.

Winnik is a fucking Win!

by Sandie Gauthier on Nov 10, 2010 7:51 AM MST up reply actions  

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