Avalanche Free Agency Game Plan: Goalies
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jun 14, 2010 6:00 AM MDT
in Avalanche News & Notes
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The free agent feeding frenzy begins on July 1st. All this summer, we've been building up to see who the Avalanche might be pursuing. We'll be breaking this up into 3 sections (goalies, defense and forwards) and this one will be, by far, the simplest. The Avalanche already have Craig Anderson and Peter Budaj locked up for next year, so don't expect anything else to happen here...at least on an NHL level.
However, other than Anderson and Budaj, the only goalie the Avalanche have under contract for next year is Trevor Cann, who had a 3.58 GAA in 13 AHL games last year. 2009-2010 Monsters John Grahame and Tyler Weiman are unrestricted free agents, and there are rumors that Weiman may end up going to Sweden. And Billy Sauer? Honestly, I have no idea what his contract status is, but I'm not sure it's all that relevant. Peter Delmas will re-enter the draft after the Avalanche passed on signing him by the June 1st deadline. BU's Kieran Millan was drafted last summer, but it looks like he'll be with the Terriers again this fall.
So figure on the Avalanche to make a depth move in free agency. Taking a look at this list of UFAs from CapGeek.com, I think we'd be talking about someone in the Wade Dubielewicz, Curtis Sanford or Barry Brust mold - a guy who could be solid in the AHL and could be a capable back-up in case of an injury to Anderson or Budaj at the NHL-level.
| NAME | POS | AGE | TEAM | CAP HIT | GS | MIN | W-L-O | GAA | SPCT | SO |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Nabokov, Evgeni | G | 34 | SAN | $5,375,000 | 71 | 4,194 | 44-16-10 | 2.43 | 0.915 | 3 |
| Mason, Chris | G | 34 | STL | $3,000,000 | 61 | 3,512 | 30-22-8 | 2.53 | 0.905 | 2 |
| Turco, Marty | G | 34 | DAL | $5,700,000 | 52 | 3,087 | 22-20-11 | 2.72 | 0.904 | 4 |
| Niittymaki, Antero | G | 29 | TBL | $600,000 | 46 | 2,657 | 21-18-5 | 2.87 | 0.899 | 1 |
| Hedberg, Johan | G | 37 | ATL | $1,087,500 | 42 | 2,631 | 21-16-6 | 2.62 | 0.907 | 3 |
| Theodore, Jose | G | 33 | WAS | $4,500,000 | 43 | 2,585 | 30-7-7 | 2.81 | 0.902 | 1 |
| Leighton, Michael | G | 29 | PHI | $600,000 | 31 | 1,799 | 17-9-2 | 2.83 | 0.896 | 1 |
| Ellis, Dan | G | 29 | NAS | $1,750,000 | 28 | 1,714 | 15-13-1 | 2.70 | 0.900 | 1 |
| Emery, Ray | G | 27 | PHI | $1,500,000 | 29 | 1,683 | 16-11-1 | 2.64 | 0.896 | 3 |
| Biron, Martin | G | 32 | NYI | $1,400,000 | 26 | 1,634 | 9-14-4 | 3.27 | 0.884 | 1 |
| Toskala, Vesa | G | 33 | CGY | $4,000,000 | 26 | 1,604 | 9-12-3 | 3.48 | 0.863 | 1 |
| Legace, Manny | G | 37 | CAR | $500,000 | 24 | 1,472 | 10-7-5 | 2.81 | 0.898 | 1 |
| Auld, Alex | G | 29 | NYR | $1,000,000 | 20 | 1,298 | 9-7-3 | 2.96 | 0.883 | 0 |
| Raycroft, Andrew | G | 30 | VAN | $500,000 | 14 | 967 | 9-5-1 | 2.42 | 0.902 | 1 |
| Lalime, Patrick | G | 35 | BUF | $1,000,000 | 13 | 853 | 4-8-2 | 2.81 | 0.898 | 0 |
| Danis, Yann | G | 28 | NJD | $500,000 | 6 | 467 | 3-2-1 | 2.06 | 0.916 | 0 |
| MacDonald, Joey | G | 30 | ANA | $650,000 | 5 | 318 | 1-4-0 | 3.21 | 0.879 | 0 |
| Valiquette, Steve | G | 32 | NYR | $725,000 | 5 | 304 | 2-3-0 | 3.75 | 0.826 | 1 |
| Dubielewicz, Wade | G | 31 | MIN | $600,000 | 1 | 100 | 1-1-0 | 3.00 | 0.828 | 0 |
| Climie, Matt | G | 27 | DAL | $525,000 | 1 | 60 | 0-1-0 | 5.00 | 0.849 | 0 |
| Backlund, Johan | G | 28 | PHI | $800,000 | 1 | 40 | 0-1-0 | 3.00 | 0.909 | 0 |
| Zaba, Matt | G | 26 | NYR | $574,500 | 0 | 33 | 0-0-0 | 3.64 | 0.857 | 0 |
| Sanford, Curtis | G | 30 | MTL | $600,000 | 0 | 0 | 0-0-0 | 0.00 | 0.000 | 0 |
| Doyle, Frank | G | 29 | SAN | $500,000 | 0 | 0 | 0-0-0 | 0.00 | 0.000 | 0 |
| Brust, Barry | G | 26 | MIN | $550,000 | 0 | 0 | 0-0-0 | 0.00 | 0.000 | 0 |
| Caron, Sebastien | G | 29 | PHI | $500,000 | 0 | 0 | 0-0-0 | 0.00 | 0.000 | 0 |
| Munroe, Scott | G | 28 | NYI | $500,000 | 0 | 0 | 0-0-0 | 0.00 | 0.000 | 0 |
| Montoya, Al | G | 25 | PHO | $725,000 | 0 | 0 | 0-0-0 | 0.00 | 0.000 | 0 |
| Weiman, Tyler | G | 26 | COL | $500,000 | 0 | 0 | 0-0-0 | 0.00 | 0.000 | 0 |
| Wiikman, Miika | G | 25 | PHO | $542,500 | 0 | 0 | 0-0-0 | 0.00 | 0.000 | 0 |
| Grahame, John | G | 34 | COL | $500,000 | 0 | 0 | 0-0-0 | 0.00 | 0.000 | 0 |
| Beckford-Tseu, Chris | G | 25 | FLA | $575,000 | 0 | 0 | 0-0-0 | 0.00 | 0.000 | 0 |
| Tordjman, Josh | G | 25 | PHO | $522,500 | 0 | 0 | 0-0-0 | 0.00 | 0.000 | 0 |
| Sabourin, Dany | G | 29 | BOS | $600,000 | 0 | 0 | 0-0-0 | 0.00 | 0.000 | 0 |
| Chiodo, Andy | G | 27 | OTT | $500,000 | 0 | 0 | 0-0-0 | 0.00 | 0.000 | 0 |
| Krahn, Brent | G | 28 | DAL | $550,000 | 0 | 0 | 0-0-0 | 0.00 | 0.000 | 0 |
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Al Montoya wouldn’t look bad in our farm system.
BTW, the capgeek.com link right after the jump doesn’t work. My browser sees it as regular text, although it turns underlined when hoovering over it.
thanks – fixed the link
Assistant *to* the Managing Editor, Mile High Hockey
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jun 14, 2010 8:16 AM MDT up reply actions
Not that it matters much, but I’d go with Valiquette
The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jun 14, 2010 8:00 AM MDT reply actions
Makes sense. He has a sweet Spidey mask to go along with Budaj’s Hulk theme from last year.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
That mask is pretty sweet, He must have stolen the idea from me or something.
The Savage has spoken. Let it be done
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by, and that has made all the difference"
R. Frost
Right. Cuz you were the first person on the planet to put the web-slinger on your dome.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
Yes, I’m glad you realised that. I just wanted to give the other goalies a chance to get recognixed before I busted it out and everyone stopped paying attention to the other guys and rightfully focused there gaze on me, and my awesomeness
The Savage has spoken. Let it be done
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by, and that has made all the difference"
R. Frost
I would want mine to be reflective silver or neon pink to distract the shooter
Jesus Saves!!! And Duchene gets the rebound and scores.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 18, 2010 11:02 AM MDT up reply actions
What about Brandon Maxwell? There seemed to be a little bit of hype behind this pick last summer and I haven’t really heard much since.
He took over the reigns for Kitchener at the OHL trade deadline and nearly led the Rangers to an upset over the Memorial Cup Champion Windsor Spitfires. They had the Spits down 3-0 in the series and then the whole team choked the series away. I wasn’t impressed with Maxwell the few times I saw him, but I didn’t see him play in the playoffs (and most Ranger fans say he elevated his game immensely in the playoffs). Then again, spending most of the season as a backup, it’s hard to make yourself stand out.
Maxwell is too young to play in the AHL, so he’d have to play in the NHL or the OHL. He’s not NHL-ready, and Kitchener is one of the front-runners to win the OHL Championship next year, and Maxwell is their undisputed starter. He’s in a good situation in Kitchener, especially considering that Kitchener plays in the Western Conference, and so if Mississauga makes the OHL Finals, all Kitchener has to do is make the OHL Finals and they’ll be in the Mem Cup. And with Mississauga’s miniscule fan base (around 1000 fans per game) combined with the size of Kitchener’s fan base (they sell out the Aud every game) and the proximity (Kitchener is less than half an hour from Mississauga), Kitchener would essentially be the home team for the tournament.
Sauer is currently not under contract.
I have been a fan of Kent Patterson, but he has been stuck behind Alex Kangas in Minnesota.
Brandon Maxwell had a nice rookie season in Kitchener; needs to be a bit more consistent. I think he will have a shot of backing up Jack Campbell for the US for the WJC in December.
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by Angélique C. Murray on Jun 14, 2010 9:07 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
That stinks. I liked Sauer better than Cann.
by c0nquistad0rian on Jun 14, 2010 7:18 PM MDT up reply actions
Wasn’t Montoya supposed to be the second coming at one time? I wouldn’t mind seeing Dubie in the Av system.
Quitter's People United Member #33
"I am a business major in college after all." - One MHR commenter's rationale for knowing more about the Denver Broncos than I do. LOL.
by Bob in Boulder on Jun 14, 2010 10:19 AM MDT reply actions
If Weims leaves (and unfortuately, I think he will…), the LEM NEED a fringe NHL/solid AHL starter…Dubie, Valiquette or Sanford will do. I too was trying to learn/look up background on Valiquette because I was curious why he was run out of NY seemingly so fast this year. He seemed like a good guy and solid backup to King Henrik…
After watching Canner last year, I’m not sure I would throw him to the wolves quite yet. At the very least he should split time with a veteran here. From some ‘off the record’ conversations I’ve had with front office personnel, they are unhappy with the on ice results so far.
From what I’ve been told, they are planning on having meetings with COL staff about the talent being supplied (prior to the draft?). I gather they know what is going on with the maturing of prospects, etc…, and didn’t expect immediate results but it HAS been three years already. Selfishly, if the team doesn’t start winning so, the fan base they have built back up will leave them high and dry…
I don’t think the front office here will accept anything less than a playoff contender this season. I know we were promised a winner (though I don’t honestly know HOW you can do that? It IS Cleveland after all, LOL!)
NOTE: Since I am from and currently live in Cleveland, I am exempting in making jokes… Sadly, it’s something I’ve had to learn how to do!
LE
I really hope the Avs do a better job of building excitement and a team for Lake Erie this season. The Avs had a lot of injuries last season, so I know that depleted LE a lot, but the Avs seem to be content on letting LE sputter through the season. More as a training ground for their callups.
Obviously, that’s the job of a minor league team, but signing guys that can help that team win is not a bad thing. LE should have a plethora of talented young defensemen playing for them next season, and I’d like to see the Avs go get forwards and a solid AHL/NHL backup to backstop them.
The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jun 14, 2010 12:16 PM MDT up reply actions
It’s really been a staging area for injury call-ups the last TWO years. I know that that’s the reality of the system between the AHL and the NHL, but it seems much more like the Monsters are providing a service for the Avalanche without getting much in return (pro-ready prospects). Maybe fewer NCAA and US Nat. team guys in favor of some guys from juniors that will be ready for some AHL action after a year or less?
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
This issue is further complicated by the fact that 10-11 is the final year of the affiliation agreement between LEM and COL. If things don’t get put into a groove with which both parties are cool, we may well see a change in (or lack of) AHL affiliation.
2009-2010 Colorado Avalanche - Much more gooderer than last year!
Think that the Kroenke family
will want to put their AHL affiliate in that nice fairly new facility now owned by Stan in Broomfield?
Quitter's People United Member #33
"I am a business major in college after all." - One MHR commenter's rationale for knowing more about the Denver Broncos than I do. LOL.
by Bob in Boulder on Jun 14, 2010 3:48 PM MDT up reply actions
Speculation
there’s been speculation to that effect.
I wish they’d put some shit in South Denver though. I’d go to a ton of Rapids games, but driving through I-25 AND I-70 traffic at rush hour is fucking torture. I don’t want any part of driving over there, which is too bad because I love Rapids games and soccer.
The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jun 14, 2010 3:59 PM MDT up reply actions
because I love Rapids games and soccer
not that there is anything wrong with that.
Quitter's People United Member #33
"I am a business major in college after all." - One MHR commenter's rationale for knowing more about the Denver Broncos than I do. LOL.
by Bob in Boulder on Jun 14, 2010 4:00 PM MDT up reply actions
1st Bank Center
I believe they lease it from the City of Broomfield. Great place for concerts, too small for an AHL team I would think, but I’d go to games there in a heartbeat.
by niwotsblessing on Jun 14, 2010 4:53 PM MDT up reply actions
Though the capacity +/-(6,000 for hockey) does nothing to rival the LEM capacity (they are owned by the same group that owns the Cleveland Cavaliers and play in the same +/- 20,000 seat arena), the majority of AHL franchises play in arenas that accommodate between 5K and 10K fans.
2009-2010 Colorado Avalanche - Much more gooderer than last year!
my bad
Evidently still owned by the city of Broomfield, naming rights to 1st Bank, co-managed by Kroenke and AEG Live. I agree that it may be small for the AHL. It was a good size for the CHL but the Rocky Mountain Rage didn’t fill the building at all, unlike the Eagles up in Loveland.
Quitter's People United Member #33
"I am a business major in college after all." - One MHR commenter's rationale for knowing more about the Denver Broncos than I do. LOL.
by Bob in Boulder on Jun 14, 2010 5:07 PM MDT up reply actions
the market here in FC/loveland/greeley is perfect. The Eagles would love to jump from the CHL to the AHL. The BEC is just a little too small though, I think. 7200 capacity is listed, but that’s probably with the floor used for seating.
I think I saw something that said 5200 for hockey. Maybe too small for AHL. Sadly.
Quitter's People United Member #33
"I am a business major in college after all." - One MHR commenter's rationale for knowing more about the Denver Broncos than I do. LOL.
by Bob in Boulder on Jun 14, 2010 5:12 PM MDT up reply actions
Capacity is 5280 at the Bud Center for hockey. Given a CHL team has sold it out for years, it would need to be bigger for an AHL franchise. Too bad. I think they could fill a bigger building. If someone wanted to spend some (pretty big) money, one end of the ice has pretty limited seating. They might be able to expand in that direction and get a few hundred more seats in.
It's all fun and games until someone blows up Detroit...then it's a PARTY!!!
by Busted Twigg on Jun 15, 2010 8:41 AM MDT up reply actions
Are you sure? I thought they signed a five year agreement. Therefore, there would be two years left.
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by Angélique C. Murray on Jun 14, 2010 6:00 PM MDT up reply actions
I read in a couple of different places (including a Terry Frei article in the Post) that 10-11 was the last year. He (and therefore, I) could be wrong…
2009-2010 Colorado Avalanche - Much more gooderer than last year!
A brief recent history of hockey in Cleveland...
I don’t mean to turn this into a LEM rant. Sorry in advance…
I too was under the impression that it was a five year deal. Come to find out it was/is actually a four year deal. A fifth year is a mutual option. Personally, I would love if the agreement were extended. Things have improved (however slightly) every year and the talent in the pipeline now is ONLY getting better…
I agree with Jibbles in that the ‘D’ is pretty well set next year and Mike that getting some more tough, major junior seasoned/ready for the pro game prospects would help too.
The owners of both franchises (Avs/Nuggets/Rams/Rapids & Cavs/Quicken Loans/soon enough, casinos) are in good spots right now. They both have the makings of becoming dominating franchises (in their respective areas) in the very near future. As silly as it may sound, if LeBron signs somewhere other than Cleveland (I don’t think he will), this team too will be gone before long. It won’t matter who the affiliate is.
The Cavs are the bread & butter for Mr. Gilbert. Hockey, though he may be passionate about the sport, is secondary to filling his arena 41+ nights a year. If that goes away, AHL hockey will too.
There are rumblings now that CBJ moved their AHL affiliate to Springfield as a stop gap measure prior to coming here next year. CBJ has an option on a 2nd year too though so who knows what will happen. I know Columbus has their $$$ issues (primarily with their lease?) as well and long term, I would prefer to stick it out with COL. Far better ownership. I don’t know if marketing within the state would help either of those teams as much as they think it will.
Back to the beginning…
Of the affiliates available at the time the Monsters came into being locally, we all believed CBJ would be coming in. SJ (see below) ran things so poorly though that organizations questioned how much $$$ they would lose every year as they didn’t see a solid fan base being in the Cleveland area/North East Ohio region. These are comments I have heard first hand from numerous LEM front office staff. COL getting on board and taking a chance has truly been a blessing…
Re: The SJ days…
Prior to COL coming here, we had them as a parent club. As we would soon came to find out, SJ IS A COMPLETE TRAIN WRECK! I couldn’t have rooted harder against a team this past playoff season. F’ing Sharks!
SJ has had three cities as home towns for their AHL clubs since 2000 for a reason! But I’m sure it’s those respective cities fault (as well as their fans) that they keep that gypsy show on the road…
Seriously, I’m not bitter…
When SJ first moved here, the Gund brothers were partial owners. Six months after they relocated the Kentucky Thoroughblades here, the Gunds sold their stake in the franchise to SJSE. It immediately became a waiting game until they left. We as fans all knew it but the front office continued to deny it. The Barons (’01-06 incarnation) front office lied to my face repeatedly about those rumors saying insisting they were in for the long haul. Meanwhile, they were packing their suitcases behind closed doors.
If the COL/LEM connection was severed though, I don’t think any of us STH’s would be nearly as mad at them as we were/are at SJ. It would suck to root against guys we got to see come through here but, we would understand it was a business decision and nothing personal.
I’m sure COL would have a good run with an AHL team in their back yard, wherever it was. It might be tough with the travel east but some good divisional rivalries now could be made even better with Abbotsford (CGY) and Manitoba (VAN) good for at least 10+ tilts a year each, home & away.
Not having anyone from COL in our front office to lie to our face would only help matters in a separation…
This makes me look forward to the impeding AHL franchise in OKC with such happiness….
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
You seem to be in a sandwich punching mood today.
Quitter's People United Member #33
"I am a business major in college after all." - One MHR commenter's rationale for knowing more about the Denver Broncos than I do. LOL.
by Bob in Boulder on Jun 15, 2010 11:28 AM MDT up reply actions
You have that effect on me. Also, somebody stole my lawnmower.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
somebody stole my lawnmower.
No doubt an employee of the local Arby’s? Lol, how sweet would that be?
Quitter's People United Member #33
"I am a business major in college after all." - One MHR commenter's rationale for knowing more about the Denver Broncos than I do. LOL.
by Bob in Boulder on Jun 16, 2010 10:59 AM MDT up reply actions
Damn, I need to get my desktop running. I just had another photochop idea…combine an Arby’s sandwich with a lawn mover, then let Mike punch it.
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I'm The Canary - but I'm not cute nor cuddly, and I don't sing.
by Americanario on Jun 16, 2010 1:24 PM MDT up reply actions
Hmm
Maybe we should let Mike run over an un-sauced Arby’s sandwich with a lawnmower
The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jun 16, 2010 3:40 PM MDT up reply actions
LEM as an affiliate to the Blue Jackets makes a ton of sense, personally. I like LEM and hope the Avs can make a connection work there, but travel logistics from Cleveland itself makes the partnership difficult.
That said, I hope LEM gets an affiliation somewhere, if not with CO after this agreement ends.
The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jun 15, 2010 11:19 AM MDT up reply actions
Speaking of AHL affiliates and stuff, one thing’s confused me since I randomly thought about it last week. Has the Blackhawks ever attempted to get the Wolves as their affiliate, It sounds like it would be perfect for them, having everyone in the system in the same place, plus might lure free-agents who kenew they’d spend a bit of time in the AHL. Obviously Atlanta wouldn’t want to give them up but can the Blackhawks do anything to get the Wolves
The Savage has spoken. Let it be done
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by, and that has made all the difference"
R. Frost
Jack Campbell
Since the draft happens BEFORE free agency, the Avs may take a run at either Jack Campbell or maybe Calvin Pickard if they’re available. And for the first time, I think that may be a smart move. If they don’t snag Campbell, then they can sign some schmuck 5 days later when free agency begins.
Not sure that the draft would have any appreciable effect on the upcoming season’s goalie selection. Though Campbell and/or Pickard may warrant a first round pick (I remain unconvinced), anyone who is telling you that either of them is ready for the NHL had better share whatever it is that they are smoking. At this point, both Andy and Boods are UFA at the end of the ‘10-’11 season.
2009-2010 Colorado Avalanche - Much more gooderer than last year!
Ya for sure not NHL ready. Should have clarified. My bad and stuff.
Campbell for future needs, for once Andy becomes human again. But they’ll have to sign some free agent to fill immediate needs in Lake Erie, etc.
Word.
by Brett Shumway on Jun 14, 2010 10:14 PM MDT up reply actions
I saw him in the World Juniors and he was a stud, no lie.
That being the case, I am downright allergic to the proposition of drafting a goalie in the first round. While it may result in passing over the occasional Tuuka Rask, Roberto Luongo, Cam Ward or (uggh) Martin Brodeur, it also saves you (far more frequently, BTW) from the likes of Pascal Leclaire, Brent Krahn, Brian Finely, Jamie Storr and Jocelyn Thibault.
Goalies in the first round are straight up scary.
2009-2010 Colorado Avalanche - Much more gooderer than last year!
I agree. So does this guy. He basically sums it up in that article, but here’s part one of the series. Basically, unless you get a bonified top 5 goalie (not a reach for need) you are wasting a first round pick on a goalie the majority of the time. Better or equal are available on the FA market most years and the pick could be better used in the first.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
So, by inference, you believe Campbell will go in the top 5 picks?
2009-2010 Colorado Avalanche - Much more gooderer than last year!
He said “bonafide top 5 goalie”. He didn’t say that it was a goalie who is going to be picked amongst the first five picks in the draft, and I never implied that he would be.
I don’t think Campbell will go in the top 5, but I think there’s a very good chance that he’ll go in the top 10. I know Tampa’s scouts spent a lot of time watching him, but with the new regime, who knows? If I were Florida, I’d strongly consider him at #3. I’ve seen Jarmo Kekalainen at the Cube quite often and have heard that St Louis likes him at 14. Then there’s always trade possibilities.
I know the Avs have scouted him rather heavily, and if they decided to trade up to get him, that certainly wouldn’t be a bad idea. It would depend on the cost, but with a draft this deep, I think most teams realize that they could trade down a few spots and still get something special. Especially if their plan is to take a D. The draft is bursting at the seams with talented D.
Mock Draft Results for Campbell:
Hockey Writers, Eastern Conference Scouts, Brad Holland, and Western Conference Scouts have him 14th to the Blues, Kimelman has him 20th to the Avs, Roarke has him 22 to the Sabres, Raimondi has him 28th to the Hawks, Morreale has him 15th to the Ducks, mynhldraft.com has him 14th to the Blues as well, hockeyprospect.com, NHLFanhouse, Betting Hockey, and red light district hockey blog have him 13th to the ’Yotes, Allan Muir @ ESPN had him 27th back in March, and Draftsite.com has him as an absolute steal as 33rd to Florida (especially after getting a stud in Fowler or similar with the 3rd overall).
Bleacher Report states that Tampa taking him 6th is a huge gamble and NESN has him to the Thrashers @ 8th but only as a depth pick behind their current goalies (which makes NO sense).
That’s roughly two pages of google-search mock drafts and only 2 have Campbell rated above 13th and one couched their pick with a label of high risk. ESPN didn’t have him in the top 5, but I can’t see the whole mock without dropping some qwuam, so there’s that.
All of that is just FYI. But my point was that he isn’t considered a can’t miss Top 5 pick which is what the guys over at C& B have stated is the exception to the rule of not drafting goalies in the first round. About half of the drafts I saw on the ‘net (some of which may have been links back to somebody else’s work, so take it for what it’s worth) had him as the SECOND goalie taken after Pickard.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
…and you didn’t cite a single source that has had any sort of direct contact with an NHL front office, other than the alleged “eastern conference scouts” and “western conference scouts” who have absolutely ZERO reason to be even the slightest bit forthcoming with their actual opinions on anything and EVERY reason to fudge, exaggerate and outright lie to keep their true feelings hidden.
One of your “sources,” Allan Muir, was a staff writer for a hockey card priceguide. He used to post on Beckett.com asking for card collectors’ opinions on prospects for his yearly prospects issue. Hockey card collectors know less about hockey than Red Wing fans, and yet this NHL “expert” was asking them for their opinions on prospects for his articles. Not exactly a credible source by any stretch.
Hockeyprospect.com put out a draft guide this year that listed a couple guys that aren’t draft eligible, wasn’t consistent as to what “NHL size” entailed, and then there’s the whole fact that it’s a guy with no scouting experience based in Edmonton running a (shoddy) website, who hasn’t seen anyone outside the WHL play except in tournaments on TV and has no contact with actual scouts.
But yeah, most don’t consider him a “can’t miss top 5 prospect”. You have to consider who “most” are. “Most” haven’t seen him play. “Most” haven’t ever worked in talent evaluation. And that’s before the whole anti-American bias…I mean, you are talking about a sport whose media is dominated by Canadians “evaluating” a player who stole the WJC away from their home country in one of the most humiliating defeats in Hockey Canada history.
But hey, if he’s there when the Avs pick, that’s a huge win for us. And if Sherman passes him up, then we know Sherman is a moron.
First off, I stated that this was merely a collection of mock draft results from around the web and couched several of them in qualifiers that they didn’t make sense and may have been copies from other less-dubious mocks.
2nd, I wasn’t going out of my way to poke holes in the proposed selection of Campbell, just adding SOME information other than YOUR OPINION into the mix in relation to the guidelines discussed in the C&B piece.
Please show me a source other than your opinion where Campbell meets the qualifiers of the C&B article for drafting goalies in the first round (i.e. a top 5 caliber pick). Otherwise, this just degenerates into another “conversation” where you stipulate that you are right and others are wrong and ANY sources are somehow biased, tainted, or lying outright.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
There are no credible published sources on either side of the Campbell argument. None of the sources you cited has any credibility, and none of my sources publish anything (they’re either paid for their evaluations, or else they’re the ones who pay people to evaluate talent for them). As someone who has worked in talent evaluation off and on since Vincent Lecavalier was a 17 year old kid being compared to Mario Lemieux, you get to know some people. You can either listen to what I say, or you can think I’m full of it. Makes no difference to me which way you lean.
Nobody is saying Campbell will be a top 5 pick (at least publicly), and I’m certainly not predicting that. I’m saying that from what I’ve heard from people who make the decisions, Campbell is a lot more highly-regarded than the fan sites on the internet make him out to be. I wouldn’t be surprised if he goes top 10. And he’s obviously a top-5 talent. I don’t know of a single person who has seen him play live who wouldn’t agree with that.
I should clarify. I meant Top 5 pick. Not one of the top 5 goalies. Those could be spread out over 3 or 4 rounds some years.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
And to clarify, I meant that Campbell has the potential to be one of the top 5 goalies in the NHL, without any of the negative aspects to his game or psyche that the commonly-cited busts had. Plus, he’s a winner. You can’t discount that.
Never discounted “winning” or anything else. I was stating my opinion, based on the statistical evidence presented in the C&B article (which you didn’t apparently read) that drafting first round goalies outside of the first 5 picks is dubious at best and a bust most of the time. If someone else wants to reach for Campbell in the top 5, that’s more than fine with me as it will slot much safer picks closer to the Avs at 17. I agree, if he’s still available at 17, the Avs should strongly consider him but I wouldn’t be surprised if they went after a legit defenseman prospect or a sniper instead. There are well established needs for those positions as well and it’s all a matter of maximizing the 17th pick. Historically, the goalie route is not the way to do that.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
I saw him play all season, and the WJC was no aberration. When you factor in that he carries his team to Gold every tournament he plays, where his team is almost always the underdog, and he’s been playing for a team that is either smaller and less experienced than the competition (when he plays the USHL schedule) or ridiculously undersized and less experienced (when he plays college teams), his performance is even more impressive.
It’s not like there’s any comparison between what Leclaire, Krahn, Finley, Storr and Thibault accomplished and what Campbell accomplished. Campbell won’t be there when we pick, but if he’s there and the Avs pass him up, they’re fools.
I want Matt Zaba. I don’t know anything about him but it would be fun to say his name either as he sucks or the ‘zaba man’ or some other sort of nickname.
4-8-15-16-23-42
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 17, 2010 9:25 AM MDT reply actions
and wouldn’t that be bad ass?
Jesus Saves!!! And Duchene gets the rebound and scores.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 18, 2010 11:01 AM MDT up reply actions
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