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Avalanche Free Agency Game Plan: Defensemen

Last week, we looked at the Avs’ potential free agency game plan for the goalies. It wasn’t all that complex, essentially boiling down to bringing in someone to man the fort down in Lake Erie. Today, we’re checking out the plan for the defense. And that area is, potentially, much more complicated.

Of the three positional groups, defense is the toughest area to predict. Although the Avs will likely lose Ruslan Salei and Brett Clark to free agency, they are still projected to have 6 defensemen capable of playing full-time in the NHL: Adam Foote, Scott Hannan, Kyle Quincey, John-Michael Liles, Kyle Cumiskey and Ryan Wilson. That’s the good news. The issue here though is that keeping all six would effectively represent a status quo and do we really want repeat performance from a squad that gave up a 25th-worst 32.1 shots per game and was one of 7 teams without a 40-point season from the blueline (2006-2007 was the last time an Avalanche defenseman hit 40)? We don’t. The Avalanche have money to spend (up to $15 million by our estimates), but can they bring in any new blood without moving one of the incumbents? At the same time, they need to be mindful of the prospects coming through the pipeline – Shattenkirk, Gaunce, Cohen, Holos, etc; those guys will need to have opportunities to play, but will also need a solid core in place so that they aren’t thrown to the wolves.

Star-divide

With that in mind, what Avalanche GM Greg Sherman does (or doesn’t do) with the defense in the next to weeks is going to be extremely interesting. Does he bring in a top-flight free agent, or maybe just stick with a depth move (think Ken Klee of a couple of years back)? Does he move one of the six incumbents in an effort to shake things up a bit or to create room? (As an added bit of complexity, three of the six have some sort of no trade clause in place). There’s no clear plan of attack here. Well, I’m sure Sherman has a plan in mind. We just don’t know what it is. Yet.

With that in mind, I’m going to look at some potential top-tier targets if the Avalanche go that route. Although it would be great to add some pop to the blueline, there’s just 5 potential free agents who scored more than Lile’s kind-oh-meh 31 points last year, and I think at least two of them  - Carlo Colaiacovo and Kurtis Foster – will be extended before we get to July 1st. The Avalanche probably won’t upgrade their offensive pop with this group. Put it this way – Jordan Leopold is the 8th highest scoring pending UFA and Brett Clark is the 12th. Enough said? With that in mind, we’ll focus on guys who can help on the defensive side of things. Here’s ten big name free agents who could help the Avs (in no particular order) and one "depth" player to add on as well. *Note - clicking on the links to of each player takes them to their SBN player page which includes a scouting report *

Zbynek Michalek, 27, Phoenix. With the re-signing of Adrian Aucoin (who would have been on this list), it looks more and more likely that Michalek will become a free agent on July 1st. Michalek is a 6’2" guy with a ton of blocked shots (he led the league with 271 two years ago). Michalek is known more for his defense than his offense (17 points last year). He led the Coyote defensemen in ice time per game – as well as even strength and penalty killing – and is 5th among all UFA defensemen in that category. He’s coming off a deal that paid him $1.25 million, but this is his first time on the UFA market. He’ll no doubt be looking for a long-term deal that pays in the $4 million range. That price is steep – but not a deal-breaker. Much more than that, though, and the Avs should look elsewhere.

Dan Hamhuis, 27, Philadelphia. Hamhuis was probably going to be priced out of the Avs’ budget even before Nashville traded him to Philadelphia on Saturday. He’s a solid defenseman who is probably going to be overpaid heavily this summer…and it looks like the Flyers will be the team to do that. One scouting report on Hamhuis lists his flaws as "Isn't a physical defenseman, which somewhat limits his effectiveness against big NHL forwards. Is also a limited contributor in the offensive zone." We already have a Scott Hannan, thanks. Hamhuis would be a nice add in the $3 to $3.5 million range. I think he’ll be pushing 5 bills. Not worth it.

Willie Mitchell, 33, Vancouver. Mitchell is a bit of a question mark, as he’s coming off a serious concussion that had him speculating he may not return to hockey. Now, he says he’s healthy and training. He’s a shutdown defensemen and a leader on and off the ice. I’ve been a big Mitchell fan for years. While he doesn’t put up much in the way of offensive numbers (career high is 23 points), the thought of having Mitchell and Foote as a 1-2 shutdown punch next year and working with the youngsters is extremely tantalizing. Mitchell has played most of his career in the NW division, and the Avalanche should be very familiar with what he has to offer. He’s coming off a 4 year deal at $3.5 million a season. I think he would be an excellent fit for the Avs at a similar price.

Andy Sutton, 35, Ottawa. Sutton is an intriguing option. First of all, he’s huge: 6’6", 245. The Avalanche could certainly use that size on the blueline. He doesn’t have quite the defensive acumen that Willie Mitchell would provide, but his size, leadership and veteran presence would be welcome. He’s a big hitter too – tops among all UFA defensemen with 197 hits. Like mostly everyone on this list, he won’t score much. He made $3 million last year, which might be a little high (especially considering that his age would make his contract count against the cap no matter what happens). While he wouldn’t be my first choice, I wouldn’t mind seeing him on a 2-year deal paying $2-$2.5 million per year.

Pavel Kubina, 33, Atlanta. The good: In his last 3 seasons, the 6’4" Kubina has scored 40, 40 and 38 points respectively for generally awful teams. The not-so-good: He was paid $5 million each year to do that. Kubina would look to be one of the few offensive upgrades available to the Avalanche, but he has some question marks defensively and, of course, that price tag is hefty. As we’ve documented, the Avalanche have plenty of money to toss around…but this is probably not the guy they want to be in a bidding war for, especially now that he’s at an age where decline is imminent.

Paul Martin, 29, New Jersey. A lot of people are touting Martin as a great target for the Avalanche this summer, but I personally don’t see it. Martin is a mobile defensemen who plays a smart positional game. While I wouldn’t pass up a guy like that, the Avalanche seem to have a plethora of smallish, mobile defensemen already. If they are going to shell out money – and Martin is likely due a raise from his most recent $3.8 million per season deal – I think they’d want someone who could compliment Kevin Shattenkirk in the future, not echo his talents.

Anton Volchenkov, 28, Ottawa. This guy is a shot-blocking beast and an excellent defender. He’d be awesome with the Avs. He is going to get paid, though – probably over $5 million per year. As the saying goes, these are not the droids we’re looking for.

Kurtis Foster, 28, Tampa Bay. Foster scored 42 points for Tampa, a steal at his $600,000 salary. I’ve always been a fan of Foster’s booming shot. It doesn’t hurt that he’s from tiny Carp, Ontario – a town I lived in for a couple of years. I don’t think he’s going to be on the market on July 1st, but I would absolutely love to see him in an Avalanche uniform if he does find his way to free agency.

Henrik Tallinder, 31, Buffalo. Henrik’s been a shutdown guy in Buffalo and was paired this year with a  certain Calder Trophy candidate in Tyler Myers. He’s coming off a deal that paid him $2.5 million per season in Buffalo, but the stingy Sabres may let him leave via free agency. The 6’3" Swede is a guy many think will fly under the radar this July, but I think he’s going to have plenty of suiters. He’ll probably come in around the $3.5 million range, and he’d be an excellent addition to the Avs.

Toni Lydman, 32, Buffalo. Lydman strikes me as kind of a poor-man’s Paul Martin – a steady, positionally sound defensemen. He probably will make $2 million less than Martin though, as he’s coming off a deal paying him $2.8 million. I still don’t feel this type of player is as good a fit for the Avs as some of the others on this list, that salary level is much more palatable.

John Scott, 27, Minnesota. I think it’s clear that I have a little crush on former Wild defensemen (see Foster and Mitchell above). John Scott isn’t a great player, but man I love this 6’8" beast. I’d love to see him stretching out an Avalanche unipron…for the league minimum, of course.

If I was GM, Mitchell, Sutton, Michalek, Tallinder, Foster and Lydman would be the five guys I’m most interested in on Canada Day. Volchenkov, Martin, Kubina and Hamhuis would be great additions…but probably not the best fits based on skill set and salary demands. And, of course, after we sign the big name we’ve got to add John Scott for depth.  We don’t know what will happen on July 1st, but these 11 are the guys I’ll be watching as we approach the big day.

 

Poll
Who is your first choice for the Avs to sign on July 1st
Paul Martin
44 votes
Dan Hamhuis
18 votes
Anton Volchenkov
79 votes
Zbynek Michalek
44 votes
Willie Mitchell
29 votes
Kurt Foster
29 votes
Andy Sutton
19 votes
Pavel Kubina
9 votes
Henrick Tallinder
22 votes
Toni Lydman
1 votes
No one / other
32 votes

326 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 124 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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So, Kovie folks, next year's lineup:

Forwards:
Kovi Kovi Kovi
Kovalchuk Kovalchuk Kovalchuk
Kovie Kovie Kovie

Defense:
Kovalchuk Kovie
Kovi Kovalchuk
Kovalchuk Kovalchuk

Goalies:
Kovalchuk
Kovalchuk

Colorado Avalanche: PROMOTING itchy playoff beards since '10

by FiveJeffFingerDiscount on Jun 21, 2010 7:36 AM MDT up reply actions  

Sold. And we should draft that Kovie kid. I heard he’s good.

The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."

Screw the Wings.

by i2strange97 on Jun 21, 2010 8:33 AM MDT up reply actions  

We need a seventh D in that lineup. I suggest Kovie.

MHH- A drinking site with a hockey problem

Detroit Sucks

by TheRed on Jun 21, 2010 2:39 PM MDT up reply actions  

i hear his twin brother, Kovy is way better

Is it October yet?!

by horbayj on Jun 21, 2010 2:44 PM MDT up reply actions  

I wouldn’t mind seeing Hamhuis (Litteral dutch translation “BaconHouse”) in a unipron, although he’ll most likely be too expensive. Just give him a 1-year deal so we can enjoy his play, if only for a year.

by Tommelot on Jun 21, 2010 7:06 AM MDT reply actions  

Sorry, he ain’t kosher.

"By the age of 18, the average American has witnessed 200,000 acts of violence on television, most of them occurring during Game 1 of the NHL playoff series." ~Steve Rushin

by Dixomatic on Jun 21, 2010 11:03 AM MDT up reply actions  

Oh man!

Next, you’re gonna tell me that cheeseburgers and Lobster Bearnaise aren’t kosher either!

2009-2010 Colorado Avalanche - Much more gooderer than last year!

by Hopfenkopf on Jun 21, 2010 2:29 PM MDT up reply actions  

nothing wrong with the Bearnaise.

by Tommelot on Jun 22, 2010 1:24 AM MDT up reply actions  

So long as it’s not on the lobster…

2009-2010 Colorado Avalanche - Much more gooderer than last year!

by Hopfenkopf on Jun 22, 2010 10:45 AM MDT up reply actions  

Great overview of the situation. If Mitchell is truly over his concussion I could see a one year deal with a second year option. Michalek also looks like a good option, he would likely want a longer deal, but with Foote and Hannan likely gone in a year or two, a veteran presence on the blueline with all the kids would be essential.

Another thought is that Foote should be sitting out every third or fourth game, with Holos being the 7th dman who can rotate in and spell the other guys. Shattenkirk, Cohen, Gaunce and Choinard need to play serious minutes in order to develop in the pro game and will get that in Lake Erie. Holos has essentially played AHL level hockey in Sweden, and has experienced the physicality of the NA game in the Olympics.

Of course, Sherm needs to seriously explore any good trade options with Liles and Cuminsky. Liles has value as a puck-moving blueliner, and the thought of Cuminsky being on the ice for Game 6 in any playoff round simply doesn’t work- he’s too small.

by niwotsblessing on Jun 21, 2010 7:23 AM MDT reply actions  

/you work for Altitude, don’t you?

Bwahahahaha, that alone earned you a Rec.

Sandie

"We called him Clark Kent because away from the rink, he was just a nerd. Then he'd go into the Colorado dressing room and put on his Avs jersey, and all of a sudden he was Super Joe"- Theo Fleury

by Sandie Gauthier on Jun 21, 2010 3:25 PM MDT up reply actions  

Hjalmerson (spelling?) might be sprung from Chicago. They claim they will do anything to keep him but their cap is so lol.

Paul Martin would be great.

Never trust the lunch lady.

by Hardshell_Taco_del_Lowayne on Jun 21, 2010 7:52 AM MDT reply actions  

Andy Sutton, cheap and would give the avs some size and grit.

Jesus Saves!!! And Duchene gets the rebound and scores.

by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 21, 2010 10:49 AM MDT reply actions  

Are you an expert?

The Vernon Wells Bandwagon, all are welcome!

by avs7733 on Jun 21, 2010 3:32 PM MDT up reply actions  

He isn’t, but he saw the video.

Sandie

"We called him Clark Kent because away from the rink, he was just a nerd. Then he'd go into the Colorado dressing room and put on his Avs jersey, and all of a sudden he was Super Joe"- Theo Fleury

by Sandie Gauthier on Jun 21, 2010 3:38 PM MDT up reply actions  

meh, too lazy to watch video, just caught the recap on youtube.

retsasiddetagitimnuna. I’m petty sure that’s contagious, stay away.

by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 22, 2010 10:47 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yay defense

No on John Scott, imo. Yeah he’s big but he’s a cute and cuddly puppy with that size. Outside of after the play scrums when he does the patented John Scott Throat Grab of Awesome and clears dudes out by himself, he’s a timid dude. That said, he’s a pretty decent skater for someone his size, having seen time at forward and D in his career (like a really big, much less effective Eric Messier!) and when he gets the puck he seems to have a bout of Scott Hannanitis, which I think we have plenty of. One of my best friends would be giddy to see him in an Avs uniform because she’s a fanboy and he’s a realllly nice guy to talk to at the bar but as a hockey player, no no no thank you.

Volchenkov is my real sweetheart from this group. I want that dude in Colorado bad. Assuming we don’t drop $7 million plus on Kovy (yeah yeah yeah, I’m a blasphemer), I’d pay that price for Volchenkov. If he’d go for 4 years @ $5 million, I’d do it. Hannan’s contract is coming off the books soon and I doubt he’s going to be seeing that kind of money again and if the team is successful in moving Liles at the draft, I think it’s a hit we can sustain for one season, especially with some of the excellent value deals we’re still getting with some of the younger players.

If no on Volchenkov, I’d be all about Foster. I don’t have much to say outside of him being a cool guy at the bar who happens to score some points on D and he shouldn’t break the bank. If we get a shot, take it, yo.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.

by A.J. Haefele on Jun 21, 2010 11:29 AM MDT reply actions  

Sounds like Ottawa is really wanting to keep Volchenkov. But his teammate Andy Sutton (8th in the league in hits!) can be had. Not sure how cool he is at the bar, though.

"By the age of 18, the average American has witnessed 200,000 acts of violence on television, most of them occurring during Game 1 of the NHL playoff series." ~Steve Rushin

by Dixomatic on Jun 21, 2010 2:42 PM MDT up reply actions  

I suppose my thought is to stay away from UFA D-men this summer. The Avs need to creat a situation allowing some D-prospects (Holos/Shattenkirk) to get some NHL ice time. Adding a UFA D-man to the roster, without moving a couple of D-men, will result in too many NHL-ready Dmen on the roster. Then Holos and/or Shattenkirk would surely start with the LEM and not see NHL time unless their were injuries. Unless Sherman and Sacco try to pull of a fairly significanty overhaul of the D-Corps. If we move one D-man in a trade, say Liles, then I believe the Avs have depth (Holos/Shattenkirk) to compensate without signing a UFA D-man. If for some reason Sherman trades away two D-men (not likely I know) then I think the Avs would need to sign a UFA D-men. Unless Holos and Shattenkirk show at camp they are ready for the transition to the NHL. Lots of ifs I know.

by LTC Pain on Jun 21, 2010 12:26 PM MDT reply actions  

I basically agree with LTC. The only way it makes sense to buy a big-ticket Dman is if we can move out some of the guys we have now. We already have 6 NHL ready Dmen, and I have little doubt that Holos and possibly Kirk can make it onto the team straight out of camp. Cummers, Liles, Hannan… I would be willing to let all of those guys go, assuming that we can fill their spots with a 1-2 big name and some of our kiddies.

I think it would be worthwhile to see what UFAs are available during the 2011 offseason, and see if there are any names that catch our eye. Foote will likely retire then, Hannan will be off the books, Liles will be a veteran, and we will know a thing or two about Wilson, Cumiskey, Quincey, Shatty, Cohen, Holos, and the other kids that will likely hang out in the minors next year. THAT is when we go shopping for Dmen to shore up out Cup-ready team!

Thanks Joe...

by mfured20 on Jun 21, 2010 1:46 PM MDT up reply actions  

I’m in favor of trading a “puck-mover” like Liles or Cumiskey and adding a defensive D, like Michalik in PHX, or an all-around , like Martin. I just think the Avs are a little soft in the back right now.

The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time

by Jibblescribbits on Jun 21, 2010 2:55 PM MDT up reply actions  

Why trade Liles our Cumiskey, our 2 only real puck movers? Let’s get a freebie from the draft and trade him.

by Tommelot on Jun 22, 2010 1:26 AM MDT up reply actions  

Our only 2?

I’m not much an expert on prospects, but our prospects are loaded with puck movers. Shattenkirk, Barrie, Elliot, even Cohen. All good puck movers, and I bet at least one is ready for the NHL next season (my bet is Shattenkirk, who is already a superior passer than Cumiskey, IMLO, that means in my limited opinion).

but I think the Avs are loaded in the “Puck moving”dept. Since they are valuable trade assets, we should get something in return.

The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time

by Jibblescribbits on Jun 22, 2010 2:03 AM MDT up reply actions  

Shattenkirk might be ready, but as of now, he’s still an unproven puck mover in the NHL. Don’t expect him to do better than Cumiskey on an NHL level. It takes getting used to the overall gamespeed.

by Tommelot on Jun 22, 2010 5:06 AM MDT up reply actions  

Drew Doughty called, and he said that he spoke with Michael Del Zotto and Tyler Myers, and they all disagree with you. Liles was also effective offensively his rookie year.

The problem isn’t getting offensive production out of rookie D. The problem is usually that rookie D aren’t great defensively. Getting used to the speed isn’t a problem for a young D’s offensive output, it simply challenges them on the defensive side of the game.

So if you’re talking about 86ing Liles, there’s no reason to think that one of Shattenkirk, Cohen, Elliot, Barrie, Chouinard or Gaunce couldn’t step in and fill his role offensively while providing similar defense. Because Liles has never been very effective in his own end in the first place.

by DetAvs on Jun 22, 2010 1:15 PM MDT up reply actions  

Completely agree

If Shattenkirk, or another, is ready I think their impact on next season is probably equal to Cumiskey, and probably only slightly worse than Liles. But the value of getting one of them (or a small rotation of a few of them) in the NHL and playing NHL minutes far outweighs any slight downgrade (if any) in their defense when compared to Liles or Cumiskey.

Anyone know which of those D prospects DetAvs lists above are eligible for the 9 games in the NHL and back to the OHL/WHL etc like Wolski had (and Duchene and O’Reilly were eligible for last season). If any of them are, I bet That happens with the eligible ones.

The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time

by Jibblescribbits on Jun 22, 2010 1:32 PM MDT up reply actions  

Elliott and Barrie are. Gaunce and Chouinard are as well, but they would be overagers in the CHL and that’s just not going to happen unless they totally flame out in camp. They will likely go to the AHL. The Avs wouldn’t want to tie their hands by sending Gaunce and Chouinard to the CHL after nine games when they could send them to the A, get them closer to the NHL, and have the ability to bring them back up at their whim. But if they are going to send one of them back to the CHL, it’s a lot more likely that it would be Chouinard.

That all said, Gaunce’s OHL team, the Mississauga St Mike’s Majors, are going to host the Memorial Cup next spring. Because they are the host team, they get an automatic berth into the Memorial Cup, and those teams usually beef up to try to win the Mem Cup at home. It wouldn’t surprise me, especially if Gaunce didn’t make the NHL squad, if the Avs played Gaunce in the AHL for half the season, then sent him back to the OHL to try to win the Mem Cup. The Blues did something similar this past season with Pietrangelo, keeping him in St Louis for most of the season before sending him back to Niagara/Barrie for Barrie’s Mem Cup run. Given that Gaunce was Mississauga’s captain this past season and clearly their best player, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they went with two overagers until the trade deadline to keep that option open for Gaunce to return (OHL teams can only have 3 players born in 1990 for this upcoming season).

by DetAvs on Jun 22, 2010 2:04 PM MDT up reply actions  

I could see Elliott and Barrie each getting 9 games with the Avs, then sent back to the CHL.

The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time

by Jibblescribbits on Jun 22, 2010 2:26 PM MDT up reply actions  

The problem is usually that rookie D aren’t great defensively.

How is this not what I said? I never said anything about offensive effectiveness.

by Tommelot on Jun 22, 2010 2:21 PM MDT up reply actions  

Sure you did. You ONLY talked about offensive ability (specifically “puck movement”) and didn’t say a single word about defense.

“Shattenkirk might be ready, but as of now, he’s still an unproven puck mover in the NHL. Don’t expect him to do better than Cumiskey on an NHL level. It takes getting used to the overall gamespeed.”

by DetAvs on Jun 22, 2010 6:55 PM MDT up reply actions  

Exactly, not a word about offensive ability, boi!

by Tommelot on Jun 22, 2010 11:43 PM MDT up reply actions  

Don’t let him such you into his game…

If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!

by Mike @ MHH on Jun 23, 2010 9:20 AM MDT up reply actions  

We already have 6 NHL ready Dmen

The problem is, and you stated it, they’re all 2nd and 3rd pairing guys or rookies. We either need someone to step up into that top pair role, eating lots of minutes against the opponents’ top lines, or we need to bring someone in and trade off some of the guys we have.

It's all fun and games until someone blows up Detroit...then it's a PARTY!!!

by Busted Twigg on Jun 21, 2010 2:59 PM MDT up reply actions  

Oh I agree, we definitely need to shore the situation up. I just mean that without ‘getting rid’ of some of the guys we have now, theres no point in signing more. The Wheel ‘O Defense last year was horrible, and without thinning the ranks a bit, we could face the same situation again. And there’s no way we can let the kiddies go out and play if we have Hannan or Liles or Footer on the bench, let alone how its going to look when we get that 1-2 pairing guy out there.

So the question becomes: How can we avoid a 3-4 defenseive man logjam? [have fun with that one!] We either trade some of the guys, or waive some. Who would possibly want to take on a Liles or Hannan-esque contract these days? And would they sign their NTC anyway? Would we really want to risk waiving them and getting no return for them at all? Keeping around Liles/Hannan/Cumiskey/Quincey til the trade deadline could prove to be very lucrative, especially since they are either young or near the ends of their contracts.

I have a lot of faith that Sherm & Co are out there sniffing around for leads, feeling out Chicago, looking for trading partners and counting all the beans. If they feel like they can sign a Mitchell or a Michalek or a Sutton, they will. But I feel like they won’t even consider it unless we can make some trades with the existing guys.

Thanks Joe...

by mfured20 on Jun 21, 2010 4:29 PM MDT up reply actions  

Liles

I traded him on NHL09 once, and he came back to score against my team later. Would you want that? Because that’s what will happen; Liles will hunt our nightmares if we trade him and he finally gets his game together.

by Tommelot on Jun 22, 2010 1:28 AM MDT up reply actions  

so

Anyone we trade will do that. That’s just the fate of an Avs fan my friend

The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time

by Jibblescribbits on Jun 22, 2010 2:03 AM MDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but Liles is more worrysome to me than a player like Svatos or Wolski, even though they’d probably have more of a chance to score against us (keeping all other variables constant).

I don’t know, even though he’s never truly shined here I still expect him to be this tremendous force once he finally decides to play like he means it.

by Tommelot on Jun 22, 2010 5:08 AM MDT up reply actions  

Won’t matter if we trade him to atlanta for draft picks.

by niwotsblessing on Jun 22, 2010 6:11 AM MDT up reply actions  

I still expect him to be this tremendous force once he finally decides to play like he means it.

See the end of last season and the playoffs. he looked like a different player out there, playing the best hockey of his career IMO. I’d love to see that continue.

Keep playing for as long as you can and for as much as you can, you big pile of Bertuzzi, cuz that paycheck ain't gonna be yours for long.

by Cheryl Bradley on Jun 22, 2010 1:27 PM MDT up reply actions  

Breaking down our current crop of NHL D-men

2nd pairing:
  Hannan, Quincey

2.5nd paring:
  Liles, Foote

3rd paring
  Cumiskey, Wilson

I’m not saying that’s how they should be paired, just their current performance level. The rookies will have to filter into that structure. Maybe one of them becomes a first pairing player, but I wouldn’t count on it this year. The Avs need to fix the D before they can be considered a serious contender.

I think the Avs are Kovi and Markov away from the Conference finals, and another year of maturation away from the Cup finals if they make those moves. Let’s bundle up Liles and Cumiskey and send them to Montreal at the trade deadline this year, bring in one of the young D-men through the playoffs to fill the hole and see what happens.

It's all fun and games until someone blows up Detroit...then it's a PARTY!!!

by Busted Twigg on Jun 21, 2010 4:34 PM MDT up reply actions  

We are basically in agreement. We don’t, as of now, have that shutdown pair [altho some of our guys could mature into that], and we NEED one. Also Kovie, or equivalent. But then there are no real equivalents to Kovie now or in the near future.

Really it just boils down to this: I think that signing a D Dman right now is premature without some trade magic. Buying a LWer, on the other hand, might not be premature.

Thanks Joe...

by mfured20 on Jun 21, 2010 4:54 PM MDT up reply actions  

I’d take Mitchell, assuming, as people earlier here have said, that he’s over his concussion. Missing him in the playoffs was HUGE for Vancouver this year, as Byfuglien was basically allowed to run show without Mitchell on his ass. (I can’t seem to find his cap hit for last year) but as DDC said, if it was similar to last year’s, that would be fair. When (not if) Foote hangs them up (please please next year) we’ll have a slightly younger more mobile ‘Foote 2.0’ with Mitchell

Is it October yet?!

by horbayj on Jun 21, 2010 1:16 PM MDT reply actions  

i should have added, Van sans Mitchell was similar to the Avs vs. the sharks, as Pavelski and co. were able to run roughshed through our D, so Mitchell brings the ‘toughness’ factor

Is it October yet?!

by horbayj on Jun 21, 2010 1:18 PM MDT up reply actions  

NO!

Our defense is fine as it is.

by Markopolo on Jun 21, 2010 1:44 PM MDT reply actions  

Is this a joke?

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.

by A.J. Haefele on Jun 21, 2010 1:54 PM MDT up reply actions  

You are very close to me attempting to summon the BAN HAMMER. It has worked once before.

The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."

Screw the Wings.

by i2strange97 on Jun 21, 2010 2:12 PM MDT up reply actions  

What spell do you use?

Thanks Joe...

by mfured20 on Jun 21, 2010 4:30 PM MDT up reply actions  

I’m always wary of combining defensemen and free agency. There seems to be more misses than hits. What I mean, there seems to be more players that are overpriced and strap their teams financially. Campbell is an excellent defenseman but for $2 million less per year and the B’hawks might have some wiggle room this summer. Redden for NYR; $6 million. Hannan, etc. These players are all very good players don’t get me wrong. But they turn a career year into a lifetime paycheck and the expectation becomes they are the #1 defender in the league. If there was a Pronger-like defenseman on the market, sure, throw $6-7 mil at them. But any guy looking for over $4 (and really 3.5), I’m looking the other way.

I would go for Tallinder or Sutton. I think Tallinder would be a good compliment for Hannan on seperate pairings. I think Sutton brings bad-assness to the line-up

by Bringbackboone on Jun 21, 2010 1:55 PM MDT reply actions  

IF we could have BMF, Mack Truck, Road Runner, Johnny “Fuck you doghouse” Liles, Foote-up-your-Ass, & pre-trade Hannan….instead of Quincey Who?, Concussion Boy, Baby Face Cumiskey, Ooooh Don’t Hurt Me Hot Pocket, Lead Footer, & the Hobbit….then our D corps could be a pretty nice force as is. But as that’s such a big IF that it borders on fantasy-land, I’d like a big guy who can hit and scare the Bertuzzi out of folks with his slap shot, please.

Keep playing for as long as you can and for as much as you can, you big pile of Bertuzzi, cuz that paycheck ain't gonna be yours for long.

by Cheryl Bradley on Jun 21, 2010 2:16 PM MDT reply actions  

With a hot bod/face if possible?

Sandie

"We called him Clark Kent because away from the rink, he was just a nerd. Then he'd go into the Colorado dressing room and put on his Avs jersey, and all of a sudden he was Super Joe"- Theo Fleury

by Sandie Gauthier on Jun 21, 2010 2:19 PM MDT up reply actions  

goes without saying…

Keep playing for as long as you can and for as much as you can, you big pile of Bertuzzi, cuz that paycheck ain't gonna be yours for long.

by Cheryl Bradley on Jun 21, 2010 2:22 PM MDT up reply actions  

Hmmm,

Off to go do some hunting…

Sandie

"We called him Clark Kent because away from the rink, he was just a nerd. Then he'd go into the Colorado dressing room and put on his Avs jersey, and all of a sudden he was Super Joe"- Theo Fleury

by Sandie Gauthier on Jun 21, 2010 2:26 PM MDT up reply actions  

No need.

Found him.

Say it with me now:

Mc – Il – WRATH!!!
Mc – Il – WRATH!!!
Mc – Il – WRATH!!!

2009-2010 Colorado Avalanche - Much more gooderer than last year!

by Hopfenkopf on Jun 21, 2010 3:18 PM MDT up reply actions  

AGREED!! i’m big on this kid, strong in front of the net, tough, loves to drop the mitts.

Is it October yet?!

by horbayj on Jun 21, 2010 3:23 PM MDT up reply actions  

I’m okay with this choice.

Sandie

"We called him Clark Kent because away from the rink, he was just a nerd. Then he'd go into the Colorado dressing room and put on his Avs jersey, and all of a sudden he was Super Joe"- Theo Fleury

by Sandie Gauthier on Jun 21, 2010 3:25 PM MDT up reply actions  

Oh, and… absolute howitzer from the point!

2009-2010 Colorado Avalanche - Much more gooderer than last year!

by Hopfenkopf on Jun 21, 2010 3:43 PM MDT up reply actions  

a howitzer..from..the..point? what is this ‘howitzer’ you speak of?

Is it October yet?!

by horbayj on Jun 21, 2010 3:44 PM MDT up reply actions  

What is this point you speak off?

MHH: The Burgundy Army is on the March!

I'm The Canary - but I'm not cute nor cuddly, and I don't sing.

by Americanario on Jun 21, 2010 3:54 PM MDT up reply actions  

see also, Mueller, Peter

2009-2010 Colorado Avalanche - Much more gooderer than last year!

by Hopfenkopf on Jun 21, 2010 4:24 PM MDT up reply actions  

Sorry, couldn’t find a more fitting image of Mueller. Or Captain Morgan, for that matter.

by DetAvs on Jun 22, 2010 11:26 PM MDT up reply actions  

amazing

Ferris == gone as nickname. Mueller is now Captain Mueller.

by thedoctor on Jun 23, 2010 12:19 PM MDT up reply actions  

The newest TSN rankings had him at 15. It will be interesting to see when he goes.

Thanks Joe...

by mfured20 on Jun 21, 2010 4:32 PM MDT up reply actions  

TSN having him in the top 15 should be taken as a strong sign that he’s going to go higher than most anyone expects. I’ve said all along that he’s not going to drop past Detroit, because I know for a fact that Detroit is after him.

by DetAvs on Jun 22, 2010 2:06 PM MDT up reply actions  

I made a comment in another thread that while I would love to see a big physical defensive presence added to the team, I wouldn’t want to see them sign a free agent unless one of the incumbent six defensemen is moved.

Aside from this list, FTF has an interesting article about the Flyers possibly moving RFA Braydon Coburn with the team already having traded for Hamuis’s negotiating rights.

Talk around town is that a defenseman will be moved, as Philadelphia has Chris Pronger ($4.9MM), Kimmo Timonen ($6.3MM) and Matt Carle ($3.47MM) under contract. They also have control over RFA Braydon Coburn, who made $1.3MM last year and will more than double that number on a new contract. One of these guys has to be moved, especially with Dan Hamhuis coming into the fold. It’s unlikely that Philadelphia would be able to pay a bottom pairing defenseman over $3.0MM annually and remain under the cap.That last pairing is unlikely to see many minutes, anyways, with the talent in the top four.

I don’t know that it’d be enough. But, I’d trade Ryan Wilson + a draft pick/prospect for Coburn in a heartbeat.

by c0nquistad0rian on Jun 21, 2010 2:48 PM MDT reply actions  

I’d have to look more into Coburn, but I don’t know about moving Wilson, he is one of the very few that is willing to really hit guys.

Sandie

"We called him Clark Kent because away from the rink, he was just a nerd. Then he'd go into the Colorado dressing room and put on his Avs jersey, and all of a sudden he was Super Joe"- Theo Fleury

by Sandie Gauthier on Jun 21, 2010 2:50 PM MDT up reply actions  

Coburn had 118 hits, 109 blocked shots in 81 games to Wilson’s 86 hits and 76 blocked shots in 61 games.

For further comparison, Colorado’s leading hitter from the blue line was Kyle Quincey with 115 hits (and 148 blocked shots) in 79 games.

Coburn played primarily last season on the second pairing with Kimmo Timmonen and on the second power play unit with Matt Carle.

He’s a 6’5" 220lbs 25 year old defenseman that is considered to have loads of potential on both the offensive and defensive sides of the puck and has already been playing a solid top four role for a couple of years now while playing in 81, 80, and 78 games over the past three years. He was drafted 8th overall by the Thrashers and stupidly traded for an aging, overpaid Alexei Zhitnik when the Thrashers were pushing for a playoff spot a couple of years ago.

Think a bigger Quincey, with more “potential”.

by c0nquistad0rian on Jun 21, 2010 3:12 PM MDT up reply actions  

i’d be very willing to look a Coburn, esp if they’re going to be paying top dollar to Hamhuis.

Is it October yet?!

by horbayj on Jun 21, 2010 3:15 PM MDT up reply actions  

Hmmm, well there you go :)

Sandie

"We called him Clark Kent because away from the rink, he was just a nerd. Then he'd go into the Colorado dressing room and put on his Avs jersey, and all of a sudden he was Super Joe"- Theo Fleury

by Sandie Gauthier on Jun 21, 2010 3:26 PM MDT up reply actions  

I definitely covet Coburn, but would like to see if PHI would take a pick(s) or one of our puckmovers (Barrie / Elliott) instead of taking Wilson.

2009-2010 Colorado Avalanche - Much more gooderer than last year!

by Hopfenkopf on Jun 21, 2010 3:42 PM MDT up reply actions  

Remember boys and girls that hits are one of the most subjective stats in the NHL with significant home/away bias.

If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!

by Mike @ MHH on Jun 21, 2010 4:17 PM MDT up reply actions  

I’d offer the rights to Tyson Barrie for Coburn. Flyers need to move salary, Barrie is a puck mover but a few years out.

by niwotsblessing on Jun 21, 2010 2:52 PM MDT up reply actions  

I don’t know I’d trade Wilson, but I love Coburn. I’d try to trade Cumiskey+ first.

by thedoctor on Jun 21, 2010 3:59 PM MDT up reply actions  

Cumiskey AND a first? That seems like a big payment. Is the kid that good? I assume he is since thats what you would give, but all I really know about him I read from c0nquistad0rian above.

Thanks Joe...

by mfured20 on Jun 21, 2010 4:40 PM MDT up reply actions  

oh sorry, poorly phrased. let me try again: I would try to trade Cumiskey+ before Wilson.

The + would be some prospect or pick. Definitely wouldn’t do Cumiskey + 1st for him…he’s good, but inconsistent.

by thedoctor on Jun 21, 2010 4:55 PM MDT up reply actions  

OK, I thought you were totally off your rocker too.

2009-2010 Colorado Avalanche - Much more gooderer than last year!

by Hopfenkopf on Jun 21, 2010 4:58 PM MDT up reply actions  

Whew, ok thanks for the clarification!

Thanks Joe...

by mfured20 on Jun 21, 2010 9:00 PM MDT up reply actions  

Coburn had an awful regular season and seemed to lose his confidence but played well (some nights he logged close to 30 minutes) in the playoffs. I think that regular season will affect his contract and Philly may keep him for closer to $2M.

With that said, I would certainly advocate a trade for Coburn if available instead of the UFA D options available. Philly could use a cheap 2nd/3rd line RW with some size, so offering Jones or Yip would be a fair trade that would help both teams. Coburn has the size the Avs lack on D, has good mobility and offensive skill, and still has potential to grow into a 1st pair D. Then we’d just have to trade Cumiskey or Quincey or Liles to make room for Shattenkirk or Holos.

by Inebriated Simian Miscreants on Jun 22, 2010 8:28 AM MDT up reply actions  

You’d be looking at something significant going with Wilson for Coburn. You’d probably be looking at one of Cohen, Gaunce or Elliott being the headliner in that trade. I’d be all over that, FTR.

by DetAvs on Jun 22, 2010 2:07 PM MDT up reply actions  

Are we drafting today? I’ve been waiting all week.

The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."

Screw the Wings.

by i2strange97 on Jun 21, 2010 2:52 PM MDT reply actions  

Yeah, I know… between that and FA day! Phew~ I’m so glad I have the 1st and 2 nd off !

Sandie

"We called him Clark Kent because away from the rink, he was just a nerd. Then he'd go into the Colorado dressing room and put on his Avs jersey, and all of a sudden he was Super Joe"- Theo Fleury

by Sandie Gauthier on Jun 21, 2010 3:01 PM MDT up reply actions  

Michalek would be a very good fit I think – he is young enough that if the Avs go longer than 2 years he will still fit into their plans. Granted Martin, Hamhuis and Volchenkov would also fit this bill – but Michalek is likely a lot cheaper than any of these guys.

I really hope we do a reverse-Sauer on them and get Michalek at a good price.

by HugoAgogo on Jun 21, 2010 4:15 PM MDT reply actions  

I approve of the reverse-Sauer, inverted-Finger idea.

If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!

by Mike @ MHH on Jun 21, 2010 4:18 PM MDT up reply actions  

size

The Avs need size and someone who can clear the front of the net (the anti-HANNA!). David, very good post. Mitchell is a start at what is needed and the Avs need somebody with a shot from the point for the power play (Mueller was better than anyopne else as a forward), Foster would be great and they can probably get him for 1.5M range which is a good deal. He was signed for that tiny money b/c he was coming off major injury, that won’t happen again. This guy was drafted 40th overall so he’s no bum. Michalek is a great skater but the Avs need punishers and he’s not that guy. Would be nice to move Hannan and get him though. They will likely make a trade too. Coburn a good choice for a trade but Colaiacovo would be a great pick-up too. So, maybe tight ass Kroenke will spend some money and get 2 of these 3. The Avs desperately need a power forward who can score too.

by hockeyexpert on Jun 21, 2010 5:52 PM MDT reply actions  

I bet he gets more than 1.5 though. thinking double. the only two D UFAs that scored more points than he did were Gonchar and Niedermayer.

Assistant *to* the Managing Editor, Mile High Hockey

by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jun 21, 2010 7:25 PM MDT up reply actions  

by the way

I like Volchenkov too but forget it, they won’t spend the 5-6M a year it will take to get him. They should go after Kovalchuk though, he’s a once in 10 years FA at only 25 years old and the Avs have TONS of money. Too bad Kroenke is Mr. Basketball, kind of funny since we all know what a sack of shit all those guys are and how they try once every 4 games.

by hockeyexpert on Jun 21, 2010 5:55 PM MDT reply actions  

uhoh, you guys need a defenceman or two as well?
i’m quite surprised to see that a few of you would like to take Willie Mitchell.

Nucks Misconduct contributor.
Also on Twitter.
Still waiting for the Canucks to win the Stanley Cup.....

by missy on Jun 21, 2010 6:03 PM MDT reply actions  

something we don’t know?

Assistant *to* the Managing Editor, Mile High Hockey

by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jun 21, 2010 7:23 PM MDT up reply actions  

not that i know of. just found it surprising that a division rival would take one of our players.
then again, we would all steal Iginla from calgary if we had the chance…..

Nucks Misconduct contributor.
Also on Twitter.
Still waiting for the Canucks to win the Stanley Cup.....

by missy on Jun 21, 2010 7:55 PM MDT up reply actions  

Well the Avs signed Brad May in 2005 for some reason, so anything’s possible.

by wickediz on Jun 21, 2010 7:59 PM MDT up reply actions  

you know where Mitchell spent most of his time before Vancouver signed him, right?

Assistant *to* the Managing Editor, Mile High Hockey

by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jun 21, 2010 8:51 PM MDT up reply actions  

Anything that weakens a rival and helps us, I'm ok with.

Seriously, We’ll take the Sedins, Kesler, Samuelsson and even Luongo off your hands too. I really don’t mind.

The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time

by Jibblescribbits on Jun 21, 2010 11:52 PM MDT up reply actions  

I’d let them keep Luongo. I really think he is one of the most over rated players around.

MHH- A drinking site with a hockey problem

Detroit Sucks

by TheRed on Jun 22, 2010 12:29 AM MDT up reply actions  

yeah

but he’d be awesome as Andy’s backup.

The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time

by Jibblescribbits on Jun 22, 2010 2:04 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

As much of a Budaj supporter as I am, I still had to rec this!

"That F******* sandwich had it coming!" -Mike@MHH

by gl avfan on Jun 22, 2010 4:46 PM MDT up reply actions  

teams always want to steal from division rivals, makes them stronger and opponents weaker.

by hockeyexpert on Jun 22, 2010 9:27 AM MDT up reply actions  

The D is okay. There are six guy returning so just bring up Shattenkirk and that should be fine. Maybe sign that John Scott guy just for jokes because he is so big. He would be a scratch for almost every game, but it would be fun seeing such a huge player on the Avs.

by Avs_Man on Jun 21, 2010 8:04 PM MDT reply actions  

think yuo’re stretching in a big way. Shattenkirk would be a ROOKIE, not too many can step in and help, if at all. He’s another liles and cumiskey anmd there is NO WAY you can have 3 midgets on D, period. They will be looking for size. You have to remember how big the west is, SJ has huge forwards, Calgary too.

by hockeyexpert on Jun 22, 2010 9:29 AM MDT up reply actions  

You’re talking shit, Gervais. The last season the Avs had SEVERAL rookies step in and do more than “help at all.”

If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!

by Mike @ MHH on Jun 22, 2010 9:57 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

Really?

Not on D, only at forward. There’s a big difference trust me. Easy to play at forward, not D.

by hockeyexpert on Jun 22, 2010 10:43 AM MDT up reply actions  

So you're saying you're an expert?

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.

by A.J. Haefele on Jun 22, 2010 2:41 PM MDT up reply actions  

Have you seen the video?

MHH: The Burgundy Army is on the March!

I'm The Canary - but I'm not cute nor cuddly, and I don't sing.

by Americanario on Jun 22, 2010 3:48 PM MDT up reply actions  

Shattenkirk is another Liles? Are you forgetting that Liles stepped right into the line up out of college and was effective enough to give the Avs the confidence to trade Morris.

by c0nquistad0rian on Jun 22, 2010 3:07 PM MDT up reply actions  

hey chief, Liles played with Rob Blake and there was a reason for that, point made. If you put Shattenkirk with Hanna or Cumiskey they will never clear the puck. Did you see what SJ did to the Avs in the playoffs??? The puck was stuck in their end for 3 minutes at a time. Don’t you think these other teams scout us and realize that? Shattenkirk can skake really well but who can hit somebody? Foote at 39 will still be the most physical! Wilson hits but he’s no Ray Bourque, there’s a reason Calgary thru him in. Example 2, Pronger with Carle. Pronger made Carle look really good, eh? Here’s a guy who gets traded twice but now he’s so good? Pronger made it that way. There has to be a balance on the pairings.

by hockeyexpert on Jun 22, 2010 3:54 PM MDT up reply actions  

Even withøut a free agent signing, I døn’t think we can take Cumiskey ør Wilson’s presence øn the øpening night røster før granted. I expect øne øf Holøs ør Shattenkirk tø replace Cummers øn the team at the seasøn’s øutset, møst likely the førmer cønsidering his experience playing against adults.

Wøuldn’t mind taking a flyer øn Mitchell at all thøugh, he wøuld be brilliant tø have if he’s healthy. Flipping øne øf øur milliøn dman prøspects and a pick før Coburn wøuld be a great alternative if we cøuld get him. Gus Young is prøbably gøing tø scøre 60 pøints next year anyways, sø nø big løss really.

by wickediz on Jun 21, 2010 8:06 PM MDT reply actions  

Either too much time on your hands...

or way in need of some mini golf.

Keep playing for as long as you can and for as much as you can, you big pile of Bertuzzi, cuz that paycheck ain't gonna be yours for long.

by Cheryl Bradley on Jun 21, 2010 8:19 PM MDT up reply actions  

Tho it does look cool

Keep playing for as long as you can and for as much as you can, you big pile of Bertuzzi, cuz that paycheck ain't gonna be yours for long.

by Cheryl Bradley on Jun 21, 2010 8:20 PM MDT up reply actions  

Thɇrɇ’s mørɇ whɇrɇ that ȼamɇ frøm!

by wickediz on Jun 21, 2010 8:53 PM MDT up reply actions  

I thiπk he mu$t ße iπ πeed øƒ $ømethiπg…

Sandie

"We called him Clark Kent because away from the rink, he was just a nerd. Then he'd go into the Colorado dressing room and put on his Avs jersey, and all of a sudden he was Super Joe"- Theo Fleury

by Sandie Gauthier on Jun 21, 2010 9:26 PM MDT up reply actions  

I wouldn’t mind either Sutton, Volenchenkov or Martin if the price was right. Trade Cummers and a prospect. The D has to change next season or the Avs will be leaking goals like a sieve again. Although, I am no expert.

McIlrath would seem to be a good fit, but he won’t be NHL-ready for another year or two?

My opinion is worth about what you paid for it: Nothing.

by Nemesis44UK on Jun 22, 2010 2:45 AM MDT reply actions  

I am.

If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!

by Mike @ MHH on Jun 22, 2010 8:06 AM MDT up reply actions  

Did you see the video?

Sandie

"We called him Clark Kent because away from the rink, he was just a nerd. Then he'd go into the Colorado dressing room and put on his Avs jersey, and all of a sudden he was Super Joe"- Theo Fleury

by Sandie Gauthier on Jun 22, 2010 8:29 AM MDT up reply actions  

Many. Mostly from Vivid Entertainment.

If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!

by Mike @ MHH on Jun 22, 2010 9:57 AM MDT up reply actions  

HAhahahaha, Mike some things just need to be kept between you and Mrs.

Sandie

"We called him Clark Kent because away from the rink, he was just a nerd. Then he'd go into the Colorado dressing room and put on his Avs jersey, and all of a sudden he was Super Joe"- Theo Fleury

by Sandie Gauthier on Jun 22, 2010 9:58 AM MDT up reply actions  

Or (more likely) between Mike and Mike.

by Mrs @ MHH on Jun 22, 2010 10:08 AM MDT up reply actions  

Awe

Mrs. you’re no fun! ;)

Sandie

"We called him Clark Kent because away from the rink, he was just a nerd. Then he'd go into the Colorado dressing room and put on his Avs jersey, and all of a sudden he was Super Joe"- Theo Fleury

by Sandie Gauthier on Jun 22, 2010 10:14 AM MDT up reply actions  

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