Avalanche Free Agency Game Plan: Forwards
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jun 30, 2010 8:00 AM MDT
in Avalanche Notebook
457 comments
The end.
Okay, that was obvious, but it's really not all that far from the truth. Kovy is, in so many ways, the perfect fit for the Avalanche. The Avs have money to spend (between $10 million and $15 million perhaps), they have a dearth of quality left wingers and they could use an upgrade offensively. Oh, and Kovalchuk would probably sell a few tickets as well - something the team could certainly use. We've been talking about adding Kovy since well before last season's trading deadline. We've talked about how high his contract demands will be, which teams can afford him, how the KHL will play into this, whether he's a good team player or a bad team player. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. It's gone on so long that I'm sure the K, O, V and Y keys have completely worn off of Bob in Boulder's keyboard. Will the Avalanche pull the trigger on Thursday? There's no way to know. One thing I do know, though: he's the best option by a wide margin.
With Paul Stastny, Matt Duchene and Ryan O'Reilly, the Avalanche are probably set up the middle for the next 27 years or so. They may still need a 4th line pivot man, but no one is reading this to find out our chances of landing Richard Park or Ryan Johnson. Center is not a need.
On the right wing, the Avalanche have Milan Hejduk, Chris Stewart, David Jones and Brandon Yip in terms of front-line talent. That's a solid group...but the age of Hejduk and relative inexperience of the latter three might leave room for a depth signing here, just in case. I believe GM Greg Sherman when he says he's committed to sticking with the youth movement, so I don't think the Avs will pursue any big-name right wingers.
The left wing, though, is another story. The Avalanche currently have T.J. Galiardi, Peter Mueller and Ryan Stoa. All three have potential and all three had some success especially late in the season last year. This is the position that is screaming for an influx of talent (and, honestly, it was this way even before the Avalanche traded away Ryan Smyth last summer). As good as I think these three can be - and I'm high on all of them - I think they would absolutely benefit from the addition of someone to take the pressure off. If you bring in a first-line winger, you can leave Mueller on the second line (where he flourished), allow Galiardi to move to the third line (where he's probably better suited and where he could combine with Radar O'Reilly to be a potent combo) and it would allow Ryan Stoa a little more time to find his NHL groove.
With all that in mind, let's take a look at some of the top-tier LW available on Thursday and see if we can find a couple of good bargain options for the right wing as well.
Ilya Kovalchuk. LW. Age 27. 2009 Cap Hit: $6.4 million. Okay, here we go. Last year, Chris Stewart led the Avalanche with 28 goals. In Kovalchuk's worst NHL season - his first - he scored 29. In 65 games. His 2nd lowest goal output was 38 in his sophomore year. Since then, he's scored 40 goals 4 times and 50 goals twice. The Avalanche haven't had a 40- or 50-goal scorer since the '02-'03 season, when Hejduk potted 50. His salary next year will be a lot closer to $10 million than mine will, but all that money would bring the Avs a massive upgrade in talent. There's not many NHL players worth that kind of cake. Kovalchuk is. The Avs can afford him now and they can afford to pay him a few years from now. To me, he is a the perfect addition tor a young, talented team on the rise - a proven, reliable superstar who produces like few others. Remember back in 2007 when Ryan Smyth and Scott Hannan were highly touted as excellent targets for the Avs even before Francois Giguere signed them? Kovalchuk is an even better match. He's such a logical addition that I actually will be surprised if he doesn't end up in the unipron next year (note to Kovy: #17 is available). Setting myself up for disappointment, I know.
Ray Whitney. LW. Age 38. $3.5 million. No offense to Whitney, who scored 58 points last year, but he does represent a rather significant drop off in talent between Kovalchuk and everyone else. Whitney is a veteran who should be good to provide 20 goals as well as some significant leadership. At 5'10" 180, I don't think he's a perfect fit for the smallish Avs.
Alexander Frolov. LW. Age 28. $4 million. Frolov is possibly the 2nd best option for the Avalanche...and that's a bit of a scary thought. He's immensely talented (71 points in 2006), but also extremely inconsistent (51 points last year). He's a bit of a gamble - especially at a contract north of $5 million a year - but Frolov has the potential to thrive. No, he's not my first choice...but he's
Matt Lombardi. RW. Age 28. $1.8 million. Lombardi is getting a lot of ink this summer as one of the guys due a big raise following his 58 point season in Phoenix. I've always been a Lombardi fan - that speed is breathtaking - but I'd like to see a few more consistent seasons on the books before getting into a bidding war for his services.
Lee Stempniak. RW. Age 27. $2.5 million. Seriously, is there anyone on the Coyotes who isn't a free agent this summer? I like Stempniak, who scored 27 goals last year. As with Lombardi, I'm just not sure I like him enough to go batshit crazy to land him.
Alexei Ponikarovsky. LW. Age 30. $2.1 million. Considering I had no idea that Ponikarovsky was as big (6'4") or as old (30) as he is, I'm probably not in a position to talk about him (that West Coast bias rearing its ugly head). I'm not really sure a guy who averages 40 points a year is going to help us too much anyway, though.
Raffi Torres. LW. Age 28. $ 2.25 million. The "other" #17. If you follow this blog, you may recall I thought Torres might be a good deadline acquisition for the Avalanche. As a free agent, he's certainly not the top-tier winger the Avalanche need, but his hustle and grit would make him a solid choice in the "value add" category; he could be an effective player on the lower lines, but wouldn't be totally out of place moving up for a spell in case of an injury.
Thanks, but no thanks:
- Maxim Afinoganov. Svatos 2.0
- Paul Kariya. A shadow at this point. More importantly, he would be a constant reminder of the most disappointing season in Avalanche history.
- Olli Jokinen. The 'stache is cool. Everything else about the moody guy is overrated.
- Jonathan Cheechoo. Don't even think about it...unless Joe Thornton is coming with him.
- Alex Tanguay. I still have many great memories. Please don't come back and tarnish them.
We're not too deep into this and we're already getting to a point where there probably wouldn't be a huge return for the Avalanche. After Kovy and, arguably, Frolov, there doesn't seem to be too much out there worthy of a significant investment. There's not many other names I'd put ahead of the top 8 or 9 players on the depth chart. Greg Sherman struck pay dirt last year with the bargain signing of Craig Anderson (yeah, I know, I'm the first guy ever to point that out), so perhaps he can work his magic again. For the most part, though, I think the Avs' approach to this position on Canada Day is going to be "go big or go home".
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ok, a better question is why wouldn’t you try to sign Kovy?
Sherman can’t say with a straight face that it’s about building a youth movement because Kovy is young. It can’t be about building through the draft because you’re just saying you want to be the Columbus Blue Jackets at that point.
When Pierre Lacroix rarely speaks these days he always says the same thing, “our goal as always is to win the Stanley Cup”. Let me suggest something to you Mr. Lacroix; when we were competing for cups this is exactly the kind of deal you would get done. If it’s about the money then it’s about ownership’s issues with budget, not the salary cap.
why wouldn’t you try to sign Kovy?
Great question. I would really like to see Sherman & Lacroix explain that one as there isn’t a viable explanation. My hope is that they have a deal in place for Kovy and that’s the reason they’re still negotiating with the RFAs, having to lock down their contracts to keep room for Duchene and Radar and the others who will be due raises in a couple of years. Otherwise, the delay on those contracts plus not signing Kovalchuk do not make any sense outside of the “cheap bastards” reasoning.
"Being called an off-the-board pick, I love it. I can’t wait to prove everyone wrong and show that’s where I belong to be drafted." - Joey Hishon
The Colorado Avalanche: every second, every shift, every play
that’s 100% of the reason, budget. They had half the building full last year for a pretty fun team to watch so that’s part of it. The funny thing about it is what David said above, Kovalchuk will fill the building for lots of reasons, mainly because he has start power and will make the Avs an instant top 5 team in west. They just don’t want to spend money, that’s it. They won’t even sign a couple top notch d-men which is a desperate need, at least in my opinion. In the NHL you play to win, period. The avs have the formula as they are set wiht young guys who are their core for a few years and they need to try to win now. We will see but i’m not hopeful.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 9:58 AM MDT up reply actions
They just don’t want to spend money, that’s it. They won’t even sign a couple top notch d-men which is a desperate need, at least in my opinion.
Let’s wait and see what the Avs actually do before declaring they won’t spend money. Last season we all bitched (me most vocally) about how cheap they were being, and they actually ended up fairly close to the salary cap. I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt before piling on, but it is a concern.
The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 10:18 AM MDT up reply actions
trust me, I want them to sign some guys but I’m not optimistic. Hope I’m wrong. Imagine if they would have say moved Hannan and/or Liles last year at trade deadline. They maybe could have picked up 1M or so of Hannan’s salary to make that happen, maybe more but they would have even more cap room and could basically sign a d-man for 2M range and apply the difference to Kovi.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 10:21 AM MDT up reply actions
I guess I don’t see the doom and gloom on the Avs being cheap… at least not yet. I can’t think of one season where they have been cheap or not spent the money they needed to spend to make the team better. They’ve spent money unwisely, but they have traded exactly one guy away for non-salary cap budgetary concerns in 15 years, Smyth. And that was partially predicated on getting younger anyways.
The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 10:24 AM MDT up reply actions
different time and place (mostly no cap), different economy (they sold out every game for how many years?) and different club structure (they had great teams and knew they could compete). We will see but I wouldn’t hold your breath.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 10:28 AM MDT up reply actions
but I wouldn’t hold your breath.
cause that would be way awkward. you at least have to buy him dinner first
maybe an internet pipe froze and burst
mwuahaha
by Uziel on Jun 30, 2010 10:29 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well lets not forget for many the Avalanche were supposed to be a laughing stock last year. Now with a successful year behind them i think people are finally aware of the potential.
by KingHellfire on Jun 30, 2010 4:45 PM MDT up reply actions
I dunno about all that
I walked into a Gamestop wearing a Duchene jersey after we’d made the playoffs and a few people asked me “Duchene? Who is he?”. Yeah, that rocked. Of course, it WAS Gamestop…
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
by SlamDunkTheFunk on Jun 30, 2010 4:46 PM MDT up reply actions
Which top notch d-men are you referring to who we wouldn’t throw money at? I imagine the Avs are a bit gun shy to pull another Hannan/Liles or commit too much salary and time to players who will be replaced by Holos/Kirk/Cohen/Gaunce/Chewy.
I fully agree it would be nice to land that awesome defenseman, but the market isn’t exactly loaded with can’t-miss free agents. Things may change when $4.5 million from Liles is off the books.
"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny
but the market isn’t exactly loaded with can’t-miss free agents.
Has there ever been a year where one UFA was so clearly head and shoulders above the rest of the crowd than this one?
Quitter's People United Member #33
"I am a business major in college after all." - One MHR commenter's rationale for knowing more about the Denver Broncos than I do. LOL.
by Bob in Boulder on Jun 30, 2010 10:40 AM MDT up reply actions
Liles
I’d just go ahead and pencil in that Liles money for Duchene’s extension/contract. They conveniently are up the same time.
The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 10:43 AM MDT up reply actions
sorry Beachie (I know I have been warned, but you also said you have a whip?)
Quitter's People United Member #33
"I am a business major in college after all." - One MHR commenter's rationale for knowing more about the Denver Broncos than I do. LOL.
by Bob in Boulder on Jun 30, 2010 10:46 AM MDT up reply actions
you’re joking, correct? No particular order or importance to Avs but here’s a few:
Gonchar
Hamhuis
Volchenkov (my pick)
Lydman
Kubina
Mitchell
Michalek
All those guys are established good players and would be an upgrade.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 10:46 AM MDT up reply actions
overrated. the market for defensemen this year isn’t very good, and the top players (particularly volchenkov) will be overpaid.
besides, if the avs wanted to sign someone to block shots (volchenkov’s main clame to fame) they could just re-sign Clark.
by Inebriated Simian Miscreants on Jun 30, 2010 11:12 AM MDT up reply actions
huge difference, Volchenkov is the real deal but I agree he will get overpaid. You’re wrong about the D-man market, look at last year.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 11:14 AM MDT up reply actions
I think the D market is pretty good this season.
The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 11:17 AM MDT up reply actions
me too. better than up front
Assistant *to* the Managing Editor, Mile High Hockey
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jun 30, 2010 11:25 AM MDT up reply actions
So Volchenkov is just Clark
is what you’re saying. Sweet. Logical, too.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
by SlamDunkTheFunk on Jun 30, 2010 4:40 PM MDT up reply actions
Big difference
1) People are happy when Volchenkov plays
2) See #1
3) See #2
A snake in the class - Silver Seven - Cycle Like the Sedins
by Ryan Classic on Jun 30, 2010 7:48 PM MDT up reply actions
agreed, that’s why I said what I did above but somebody will like him
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 11:12 AM MDT up reply actions
Martin
Paul Martin would be a good pickup too, if the Avs were going to go that route.
The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 11:13 AM MDT up reply actions
I love martin (mn going hard after him where he’s from) but he’s not a bruiser. The Avs need bruisers, period. They need somebody who is going to fuck-up somebody in the corner or clear the crease. Plus, he will get 5M plus. Michalek good too. I personally want Willie Mitchell if he’s healthy. He’s the guy they should get, won’t cost more than maybe 2.5M I think.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 11:17 AM MDT up reply actions
Agree
I think Mitchell will be a good bargain by someone. He’s very underrated. Wouldn’t mind seeing the Avs pick him up.
The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 11:18 AM MDT up reply actions
I think he was a steal last year. don’t think he will be this year
Assistant *to* the Managing Editor, Mile High Hockey
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jun 30, 2010 2:51 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah, I think the secret’s out on this guy. I wouldn’t be surprised if he garnered more attention than most of the other guys simply because more teams believe they can afford him.
"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny
But still
I don’t know what his cost is going to be tomorrow, but didn’t he have “Pronger-like” potential before he snapped his leg?
I’m just thinking that he will sign for much less than an Volchenkov and have a world of potential and size.
Pronger-like potential?
Bahahahahahahaha!
Okay, but seriously: Foster played forward for half of last season, and not just on the power play. He isn’t stellar defensively, but he can put up some points. There’s no way he should even be mentioned in the same breath as Pronger. That said, not a bad pickup. Just don’t expect top-pairing performance.
A snake in the class - Silver Seven - Cycle Like the Sedins
by Ryan Classic on Jun 30, 2010 7:52 PM MDT up reply actions
andy sutton, he brings what the avs don’t have.
retsasiddetagitimnuna. I’m petty sure that’s contagious, stay away.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 30, 2010 9:22 PM MDT up reply actions
ok, a better question is why wouldn’t you try to sign Kovy?
2009-2010 Colorado Avalanche - Much more gooderer than last year!
avs top coaches:
1. Hartley
2. Sacco
3. That Douchebag
4. Q
5. Granato
I could maybe switch 2 and 3 with a compelling arguement, but since he was smirking on that vancouver bench—he’s now dead to me.
retsasiddetagitimnuna. I’m petty sure that’s contagious, stay away.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 30, 2010 5:16 PM MDT up reply actions
Excellent list.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
by SlamDunkTheFunk on Jun 30, 2010 5:20 PM MDT up reply actions
i’m kinda surprised we haven’t done this before.
retsasiddetagitimnuna. I’m petty sure that’s contagious, stay away.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 30, 2010 9:22 PM MDT up reply actions
Because there's been only two good coaches?
I too refuse to remember him as coaching the Avs.
Dear Colorado Avalanche: Thank you for the excitement, see you in October.
Because after he left the Avs he lost his mind/soul?
MHH: The Burgundy Army is on the March!
I'm The Canary - but I'm not cute nor cuddly, and I don't sing.
by Americanario on Jun 30, 2010 10:17 PM MDT up reply actions
man, I would guess he was always a jerk, that famous sceen with him and bowman, I would guess he handled himself with something less than class.
retsasiddetagitimnuna. I’m petty sure that’s contagious, stay away.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 30, 2010 10:19 PM MDT up reply actions
On Frolov
NO.
"Being called an off-the-board pick, I love it. I can’t wait to prove everyone wrong and show that’s where I belong to be drafted." - Joey Hishon
The Colorado Avalanche: every second, every shift, every play
Awwwwwwwwwww, come on!
Wolski 2.0 doesn’t dazzle you?
2009-2010 Colorado Avalanche - Much more gooderer than last year!
wokski got into a fight once I seem to remember. I don’t know that frolov knows where his fists are.
retsasiddetagitimnuna. I’m petty sure that’s contagious, stay away.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 30, 2010 4:39 PM MDT up reply actions
Paying one player $10M in the middle of rebuilding with youth is a risky venture. As our young players develop and emerge there salaries will increase and in no time the Avs will have a salary cap issue. Just look at what happened to the Blackhawks. The Avs need defense and Kovy does not represent an improvement in that area. An article in TSN yesterday about UFA forwards indicated that Kovy has difficulty adapting defensively. The Avs also need quality across all four lines to be successful. One player taking up 1/5 of the salary cap will ensure the Avs have the league minimum type players on the 3rd/4th line. The only plus associated with Kovy is goal scoring. His cap hit and defense aren’t worth 40 goals a year. The urgent need for the Avs is an improved D-Corps. We have prospects in the system and it’s only a matter of time.
We have prospects in the system and it’s only a matter of time
see, from everything i’ve seen our top prospects are all defensemen, so signing a top LW makes complete sense to me, unless you know of a super LW we have tucked away in LE or somewhere else?
maybe an internet pipe froze and burst
mwuahaha
We already shipped him away
It isn’t Hensick’s fault he didn’t get a chance to be our LW of the future.
Never trust the lunch lady.
by Hardshell_Taco_del_Lowayne on Jun 30, 2010 9:45 AM MDT up reply actions
Cap is 59.4
Kovie would only be 1/6 the cap @ $10mm. ;)
Never trust the lunch lady.
by Hardshell_Taco_del_Lowayne on Jun 30, 2010 9:01 AM MDT up reply actions
I don’t think anyone is advocating taking him at $10M. The consensus around here has been $8.5M tops, with some topping out less than that.
"Being called an off-the-board pick, I love it. I can’t wait to prove everyone wrong and show that’s where I belong to be drafted." - Joey Hishon
The Colorado Avalanche: every second, every shift, every play
Players should not need time to develope in the major league that is what the minors do. By signing Kovy guess what you let some lower level picks develope in Clevland. Hell it worked for Jones and his only problem is being injured to much. I will never by an argument that states the Avs shouldn’t try to sign the best player just so we can fill the roster with players so they can develope into quality players.
by pikeyrubbish on Jun 30, 2010 9:42 AM MDT up reply actions
The blackhawks won the cup I believe and they just stockpiled a shit load of prospects in the draft. Additionally, they still have just a few decent players (Toews, Sharp, Kane, Keith, Hossa, Seabrook, Ladd, Versteeg, etc.) so I imagine they may win a few games this year. If Kovi can play for Lemaiire he can play for the Avs defensesively. It’s just a matter of trying. He’s a top 5 pure goal scorer in the league (name his centers in Atlanta?) and you put him with Stewart and Stastny and they will both light it up. He’s huge, 230lbs and that separtes him from lots of other guys. He’s a once in 10 years opportunity and he will sell a ton of tickets. I would bet he the Avs would sell 3-5 thousand additional tix if they sign him. All that said, I couldn’t agree more that D is the most pressing need.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 10:09 AM MDT up reply actions
Savard. The only one that comes to mind
by avalanchejef on Jun 30, 2010 11:54 AM MDT up reply actions
I’m concerned about the perceived locker room cancer aspect with him.
MHH- A drinking site with a hockey problem
Detroit Sucks
It’s just a perception. The only “cancer” that has been publicly touted is a possibility of ego issues once’s he’s a $10 million + player.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
Yeah
no reports of him being a cancer until he might be out the door.
The Boston media is infamous for this. Player is well-liked and beloved and then management thinks of getting rid of them and all of a sudden that player morphs into a bad teammate and is a cancer, etc.
It’s almost like they are just reprinting the Kessel stories from last season at this point.
The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 6:28 PM MDT up reply actions
Kovi’s gonna get a $10M season, but it’s not going to be a $10M cap hit. As long as Stan’s trust fund kid is okay with paying him the money, our concern should only be cap hit. I imagine it’ll be around $8.25M (Eric Staal’s cap hit, and 4th in the league)
The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 10:19 AM MDT up reply actions
The difference is that we are not signing a monster contract the year before all of the young talent contracts are up. Inflation will create room.
by avalanchejef on Jun 30, 2010 11:52 AM MDT up reply actions
The Avs don’t have an overpowering line to put out when you need an emergency goal. They get wins by out playing the other team for 60 with goals throughout the game. Kovie gives us down by one need a goal NOW push.
Kovie wants a long term deal. Structure a it where the cap comes in around $8mm or so. I am listening if the market is pushing to $9mm but not as closely. I won’t pay him the league max.
Never trust the lunch lady.
by Hardshell_Taco_del_Lowayne on Jun 30, 2010 9:00 AM MDT reply actions
I want to know who those damn 12 “no” votes are! Give me names people! Torches and pitchforks!
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
Screw the Wings.
12 and rising, my friend.
"Being called an off-the-board pick, I love it. I can’t wait to prove everyone wrong and show that’s where I belong to be drafted." - Joey Hishon
The Colorado Avalanche: every second, every shift, every play
Your the first lady.
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
Screw the Wings.
I voted yes, dear.
"Being called an off-the-board pick, I love it. I can’t wait to prove everyone wrong and show that’s where I belong to be drafted." - Joey Hishon
The Colorado Avalanche: every second, every shift, every play
Oh, (sorry Beachie). Hold this torch for me would you?
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
Screw the Wings.
K, but let me put down the whip first…
"Being called an off-the-board pick, I love it. I can’t wait to prove everyone wrong and show that’s where I belong to be drafted." - Joey Hishon
The Colorado Avalanche: every second, every shift, every play
Last time Beach had a torch on MHH was when I unknowingly called her a cougar and shit hit the fan…
PS I voted no. Lacroix and I had a long talk yesterday. It isn’t happenin.
"Four goals in sixteen shots... I'm really tired of the...............25% rule." -John Tortorella
by esylvester6 on Jun 30, 2010 10:42 AM MDT up reply actions
If Lacroix is telling you “It isn’t happenin” I’m going to go order my Kovie jersey right now.
MHH: The Burgundy Army is on the March!
I'm The Canary - but I'm not cute nor cuddly, and I don't sing.
by Americanario on Jun 30, 2010 11:36 AM MDT up reply actions
Silly Boy!
That wasn’t the last time Beachie had a whip!!!
"That F******* sandwich had it coming!" -Mike@MHH
Jesus...
Between Beach, hmom and gl I can’t escape the ridicule haha…
And good call Canary… he’s as good as signed
"Four goals in sixteen shots... I'm really tired of the...............25% rule." -John Tortorella
I voted no.
Only because, while it might be fun to have him around, I don’t think I want him here.
I want to develop through drafting. I don’t want to be like the Blackhawks. Bah.
Lets sign Stewart, Mueller, and Radar first.
Please submit your address and maybe some driving directions.
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
Screw the Wings.
Check your PM's.
I might send you something…
Not.
But honestly, do people expect him to be a savior or something? One player does not a Stanley Cup Champion make.
I don’t expect him to be a savior. Just a great hockey player. Someone fun to watch and cheer for. Also someone who can scare the CRAP outta the other team. He just so happens to be the best free agent in like.. a LONG time and I want him on our team. We have 2 big weakness. Defense and LW. He solves the LW problem.
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
Screw the Wings.
and leave some beer on the front porch, I tend to get thirsty during these things.
retsasiddetagitimnuna. I’m petty sure that’s contagious, stay away.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 30, 2010 12:12 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah it would suck to win the cup.
by Pinchy The Lobster on Jun 30, 2010 12:51 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions 4 recs
Rec
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
Screw the Wings.
by i2strange97 on Jun 30, 2010 12:53 PM MDT up reply actions
Or two or three. Yeah it would suck to be in the postion where the Avs have to worry about trading good player for top draft picks. And that makes me a sad little panda.
by pikeyrubbish on Jun 30, 2010 12:53 PM MDT up reply actions
odds are you’re trading a good player, but not a core player. The hawks haven’t touched their core players and they are in a worse situation then the avs would be (assuming the avs have faxed over their restricted free agents contracts correctly)
retsasiddetagitimnuna. I’m petty sure that’s contagious, stay away.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 30, 2010 4:36 PM MDT up reply actions
Why do you hate the Avalanche?
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by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 10:20 AM MDT up reply actions
You
but I was being a smartass and kidding…
…sort of.
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by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 10:44 AM MDT up reply actions
As opposed to your other posts?
"Four goals in sixteen shots... I'm really tired of the...............25% rule." -John Tortorella
by esylvester6 on Jun 30, 2010 10:45 AM MDT up reply actions
LMAO
Throwing the phrase “hater” at someone who does not share your opinion reflects back on you my friend :)
I know
that was the joking part.
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by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 10:53 AM MDT up reply actions
I honestly just don’t see the downside anymore. DDC has run the numbers and the cap is not a problem as long as Sherm stays in the rebuilding mode and doesn’t go all sign-happy with the UFAs. There’s room to bring in one more key defenseman after seeing how the guys in the system pan out in a year or two, or even as a trade-deadline, Cup run acquisition, if needed. This is the kind of player a team needs if they expect to win a Stanley Cup. I don’t think any of us can honestly say, outside of Duchene, we have another player of this caliber either on the roster or coming up in the system, and only having one isn’t going to get it done. So if it’s not Kovy, it has to be someone. Why not him?
"Being called an off-the-board pick, I love it. I can’t wait to prove everyone wrong and show that’s where I belong to be drafted." - Joey Hishon
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I voted yes, but only worry is the locker room feel. Will he be a good team player? I always feel iffy about those players who seem to be chasing money.
But I also just confused Cheechoo and Tootoo on another post, so what do I know? :-)
No Defense
Great, add Kovie and every game will be 7 – 6, because our D is lousy. Our defensive prospects are a good 2 years away from reinvigorating the blueline, and we may still need a big, shutdown defenseman to really be a Cup contender, Kovie or not.
As has been pointed out before, the Avs were 6th in scoring last year despite all the injuries, rookie call-ups etc. Our offense will improve overt time as our kids mature, throwing money after a one-dimensional player is not the answer in my view. ymmv.
I am going to come right out and say it now. The Avs are stuck with the Defense they have now. No other team is going to take them off our hands not until the trade deadline possibly.
I feel the best option is to ride out the contracts and let them go. We maybe able to trade Liles and Cuminsky but I hate the idea of going off on a maybe. Signing Kovy at least helps build a foundation on offence that our D prospects can develope down in Lake Erie.
What?
Sorry, I don’t understand this sentence? How is Kovy and the offensive foundation to D prosepcts with the LEM?
“Signing Kovy at least helps build a foundation on offence that our D prospects can develope down in Lake Erie.”
Everybody is saying that the Avs will not be a cup contender for a couple of years. LW offense is needed right now. Signing Kovy, guess what makes the offense better. Let the D prospects develope in LE for a year or two or three and if all of them don’t pan out quess what then you can start looking of a a defensemen in the free agency and still have a high powered offense.
by pikeyrubbish on Jun 30, 2010 10:29 AM MDT up reply actions
Got It!
OKay, understand now. Defense is what is needed now. The Avs were 6th in goals scored last year. Yes, don’t rush the D-prospects. I’d rather Sherman overhaul or D-Corps via UFA signings and/or trade vice blowing $10M a year on a goal scorer that isn’t priority.
The d-corps can’t be rebuilt this season. There’s too many players under contract. They might be able to add a guy, but the d-rebuild is coming from within. They need one Defensive defenseman, and to wait for their boatload of talent to develop..
In the meantime, that leaves the Free Agent money for the offense, and the avs have a gaping hole at 1st (or 2nd, depending on your feelings about Mueller) LW.
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by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 10:46 AM MDT up reply actions
The D-Corps could be rebuilt this offseason, if Sherman pulls the trigger on some trades (Hannan, Liles, Cumiskey?) to clear roster space for signing UFA D-men. That’s my point about the Avs’ D-Corps. Agree the D-rebuild is coming from the system which makes any trades unlikely to happen.
No one is mentioning Stoa filling the “gaping hole at LW” so maybe it’s not as vast as you think.
Stoa wasn’t all that impressive in his small stints with the Avs last season. And his stats in LE were decent. But does anyone think he’s going to be a 90-point guy? 75 point guy?
Kovi is. He’s Bona-Fide.
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by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 10:53 AM MDT up reply actions
But you can’t go under the assumption that the trade will happen. The most garunteed thing to happen is you throw out an offer and see where the chips fall.
by pikeyrubbish on Jun 30, 2010 10:54 AM MDT up reply actions
Agree
Trades are hard. If Hannan was easy to trade away, they would have traded him last off season. Same with Liles. I don’t think we can go under the assumption that Sherman could just trade those guys away
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by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 10:57 AM MDT up reply actions
But right now we are stuck with 5 Defensemen 6 if they sign Quincey which they better. Yes I will agree with 6th in goals scored, but with the defense so bad as it was last year and with the presumption that we can’t move any of our current Defensmen the best approach for the AVS would be to out score the shit out of every other team. Start making other teams score 5 goals agains the Avalanche every game and you would be surprised out how many more games they will win.
by pikeyrubbish on Jun 30, 2010 10:47 AM MDT up reply actions
The salary cap shouldn’t be the issue. The issue is whether Kovie fits with this team and can he make the team better. On these two issues, I say yes. He’s a great fit at a great time and we’re in a great position to sign him.
Kovie is the only free agent forward I can justify spending the money on and taking ice time away from what we already have. His addition creates three formidable, if not dominant, offensive lines. Best yet, it creates three YOUNG offensive lines that can gel for a year as we start filtering in the young corps or defensemen. Perhaps we don’t win a Cup in 2011 with Kovie, but from 2012 to 2018 we should be looking good, with only Hejduk needing to be replaced. I could live with six+ years of:
Kovie-Stastny-Stewie
Mueller-Duchene-Hejduk/Stoa/Hishon
Galiardi-O’Reilly-Jones
Plus Yip to fill in on almost every line.
Congrats, Avs. You’ve done it. You’ve built from within, with one exception. Mission accomplished. Take a bow.
But let’s say they don’t sign Kovie and we dump $5 million on Paul Martin instead, or worse yet, some other stop-gap defensive free agent. Now we have another albatross weighing down our cap along with Liles as our young defensive prospects look for ice time. It would be nice if the Kovie-equivalent defenseman was available, but that happens as rarely as guys like Kovie hitting the market.
In my opinion, we can make this move and be a player, or we can stand pat, play it safe and take our rightful place next to the Nashvilles of the league.
"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny
In my opinion, we can make this move and be a player, or we can stand pat, play it safe and take our rightful place next to the Nashvilles of the league.
That’s the key. If we played in the junior league, the East, then maybe we could get away with some laziness, or give in to Stan’s seemingly miserly instincts. But we don’t. And we can’t. The West has gotten better, and if the Kings get Kovy then that just puts us farther in the hole.
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by Dan Winkler on Jun 30, 2010 10:07 AM MDT up reply actions
I agree with you and one thing everybody is forgetting is that when you build thru the draft you STILL have to eventually pay your guy if he’s a star so what’s the difference? It’s about balancing the roster with the cap to put yourself in a position to WIN. How does SJ afford Heatley, Thornton, and Marleau, resign Pavelski and still have good d-men? We only have 1 guy (Stastny) above 6M so what is Sherman talking about? You’re getting a proven commodity here. He’s not lecavalier or richards.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 10:19 AM MDT up reply actions
Hejduk needs to be on rw instead of Stewart.
by Pinchy The Lobster on Jun 30, 2010 12:56 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Bingo!
3 Terrifying (for the opposition) scoring lines and a 4th that looks something like:
Highlander – Hendrix/Stoa – Yip
They’re gonna chip in quite a few themselves.
Get Kovie for a cap hit of no more than $8.5M per, spend another $2-3M/per on a 2-3 contract for Mitchell or Foster and sharpen your swords for CHI or SJS in the Western Conference Finals, because the team described above will completely pwn anybody from the East.
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You had me before the jump DDC! It’s a no-brainer (no offense to those voting no … oh, who am I kidding, offense intended!). Serious about competing for a cup over the next few years? Sign the best UFA available who also happens to fill a significant need. Not serious about competing for a cup? Let someone else in the West sign him. The thought of Kovie taking nice feeds from Stats and Dutchy and burying them in the back of the net should make anyone drool.
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by Bob in Boulder on Jun 30, 2010 10:13 AM MDT reply actions
Potential
The road to ruin is paved with great potential.
Yip, Mueller, Jones, Galiardi O’Reilly, Stoa, Hishon even Duchene all have tremendous potential. Some more than others obviously, but at this point that’s all they are, is potential. They may develop into dynamic offensive forces, but then again, they may not.
Kovi’s scored goals. He’s Bona Fide. If all the guys above even realize their potential, are they all 40-50 goal scorers? (Hint: no) So we bring Kovi in right now, and watch him put up 120+ goals over the next 3 years and then find out that All those guys above are dynamic offensive and they score 20+ goals per season and we face the problem of not being able to pay one or two of them… umm how is this a bad thing?
So when it all boils down to it the reason people don’t want Kovi is because it’s possible that they could enjoy his 40+ goal seasons, and potentially 20+ goal seasons by some kids. Then when those guys that fulfilled all that potential are due a big raise the Avs are still “stuck” with a 90-point player and valuable trade assets? Not to mention the Avs get to choose which ones to trade and get rid of (if necessary)?
If that’s the biggest “problem” the Avs are facing by signing Kovi, then I’m going to sign up for that in a heartbeat.
Oh and if some of those guys don’t work out (injuries, stalled development, giant coke habit, whatever) then we have mitigated that risk by having a proven goal scorer.
Maybe I’m not getting the downside here, but it seems to be that signing a proven top 15 scorer might give the Avs problems signing guys who may develop 3-4 years down the road, at which point they would have value as trade assets (look what Byfuglein returned) anyways.
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by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 10:42 AM MDT reply actions
stoa is not going to ever be anything but a role player. He played 4 years of college and he can’t crack the roster with a team of rookies. Come on, he’s a non factor and sure as hell not a reason to not sign Kovi
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 10:54 AM MDT up reply actions
Never, ever, ever in the history of the Avalanche have they overvalued their prospects. NEVER! Now here, let me poor you another glass of Kool-Aide.
"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny
exactly, he’s not going to do much. If you are a player you don’t even last 4 years of college usually (Stastny, Toews, etc.), maybe if you’re a d-man, maybe. Plus, he’s 6’4" and was as a freshman so he didn’t need to mature physically. He’s not physical which is problem 1 with him. He would be good trade bait right now maybe though. How bout him, a poick and Hannan for Coburn? I’m dreaming but it’s fun to dream.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 11:01 AM MDT up reply actions
Maybe if Philly signs Nabby and gets into cap trouble?
"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny
that’s exactly why Coburn (they are saying even Carter may have to go) will likely get moved, they need a goalie and they have cap issues. That would be a nice move and Hannan may help (no he won’t he sucks donkey balls) a veteran team and he’s only on cap for this year (pick up 1m of his salary).
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 11:09 AM MDT up reply actions
Here's the problem with that:
PHI has about $9.1M of cap space left at the moment with 18 guys signed, so about $1.8M left per player to fill the roster.
Coburn is RFA and thus isn’t counted in the numbers above. PHI is known to be shopping hard for a true #1 keeper, so put aside, at minimum, $4M for the keeper, leaving about $5.1M to sign 4 players.
Your proposed trade has PHI taking on $5.35M in salary, while clearing none. Short of burying huge salary in the AHL or other trades, the numbers don’t work.
That being said, I’d love to have Coburn in a unipron!
2009-2010 Colorado Avalanche - Much more gooderer than last year!
Doubt Philly would trade Coburn unless they sign a defenseman. I wish they would trade him (to the Avs).
by Inebriated Simian Miscreants on Jun 30, 2010 3:06 PM MDT up reply actions
for once, I agree with you. Stoa is overhyped massively, and a bottom 6er at best. Sure, he’s big, but his skills aren’t quite top 6 level and he’s sloooowwwwwww.
by thedoctor on Jun 30, 2010 10:59 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
I don’t think Stoa’s going to do much, but I didn’t want a “Is Stoa good or isn’t he” debate.
I Want to understand the downside of signing Kovalchuk. I get the defense thing, but the reason people pay for goals is because it’s harder to do. 3rd liners can play defense, 3rd liners can’t score 50 goals.
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by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 11:05 AM MDT up reply actions
It’s simple. If we don’t pay Kovie now, we’ll have plenty of money to sign Jesus Gretzky later on.
"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny
Problem,
I heard that Jesus Gretzky was having immigration problems.
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The Avs are signing Tim Tebow?
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by Angélique C. Murray on Jun 30, 2010 3:45 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
For those who don’t know, Jesus (Gretzky) Martinez is the lovechild of Wayne Gretzky and the Gretzky family’s maid from their Scottsdale days, Consuela. Janet is well aware of the young phenom, and it was her desire to get Wayne out of that situation that led to Wayne leaving the Coyotes.
While not actually named Gretzky, Jesus Martinez is in fact a Gretzky. From what I hear, the 10 year old was recently enrolled in a Phoenix-area hockey school, with all expenses paid by the Phoenix Coyotes.
I really didn’t know this. It is for real?
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by Bob in Boulder on Jun 30, 2010 6:20 PM MDT up reply actions
lol
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by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jul 1, 2010 5:43 AM MDT up reply actions
Then when those guys that fulfilled all that potential are due a big raise the Avs are still "stuck" with a 90-point player and valuable trade assets? Not to mention the Avs get to choose which ones to trade and get rid of (if necessary)?
Excellent point
by Inebriated Simian Miscreants on Jun 30, 2010 11:22 AM MDT up reply actions
Could not agree more! Not signing one of the top 5 scorers in the league RIGHT NOW, because some of the Avs’ younger player MIGHT develop into 30+ goals scorers in a couple of years, would be stupid!
We all have seen, what happened to Jones last season. Nobody knows if he’ll ever be the same after knee injury. Even Yip lost some of his drive after his injury!
So effin’ sign Kovy!!!
If one or two of the avs younger guys did devlop into a 30 goal guys then the team has options.
1. trade, toronto will likely still be bad and you trade for possibly the #2 pick or more realistically you trade that player(s) at the draft and set yourself up even better for the long run.
2. set up Kovy’s contract so that you can buy him out at a cap friendly number in 4 or 5 years.
3. after all the economic mess we’ve had, maybe we’re due and the cap will keep climbing.
retsasiddetagitimnuna. I’m petty sure that’s contagious, stay away.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 30, 2010 12:21 PM MDT up reply actions
Non Kovi related
If the Avs don’t, or can’t, sign Kovi. Another option no on this list to look at is Colby Armstrong. I realize that’s a huge downgrade over Kovi, but he’d still be an upgrade to the offense.
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by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 10:49 AM MDT reply actions
Armstrong is a coveted player and will get more than he deserves. He’s young, is a scrapper, cvan score and plays in all situations. He would be a great fit for Avs as they need grit. The othe guy I love os Torres, he scored 19 goals and it was a BAD year for him. How many Avs scored more than that? He’s super tough, was a first rd pick, has better offense than people know about 9if he plays with the right players) and will not be too expensive.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 10:52 AM MDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t be surprised if they go after one of those guys but I really don’t think Kovalchuk will happen. One thing to remember also is that LA likes him and that’s a pretty good place for a russian to live.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 10:57 AM MDT up reply actions
in an unrelated possibly Kovie related move
Per Bobby Mac’s Twitter
COL’s Tom Preissing is on unconditional waivers and if not claimed tomorrow at noon, will get bought out by the Avalanche
Is it October yet?!
Really
I’m a bit surprised by this, just because of the cap situation (or lack of one).
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by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 10:59 AM MDT up reply actions
Judging by the stands, they’re pointing a lot of people in the direction of saving their money.
"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny
But are they saving a bunch of money in order to prepare for a big contract?
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Or did Kroenke switch his car insurance to Geiko?
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by Americanario on Jun 30, 2010 10:01 PM MDT up reply actions
Don’t count out Toronto to pick him up.
"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny
Send them films of Bobby Orr and tell them it is Preissing.
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by Bob in Boulder on Jun 30, 2010 11:06 AM MDT up reply actions
Send them films ofBobby OrrKurt Sauer and tell them it isPreissingFinger.
Still the most hilarious UFA signing ever. I really honestly think they signed the wrong guy.
Agreed. Even when they were talking about it I remember going “That description sounds a lot more like Sauer”
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by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 11:11 AM MDT up reply actions
nope, that would be Darcy Tucker for 5M over 2 years after TORONTO bought him out! Ryan Wilson scored as many points as Tucker did! ha!
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 11:11 AM MDT up reply actions
Speaking of Tucker: Didn’t hear anything about him the last couple of weeks. You all still think we might be in danger of the Avs re-signing him?
Dater has said he expects Svatos, Tucker, Clark, and Salei are all out. That’s not exactly gospel, but it would indicate he hasn’t heard anything form the agents or the avs.
expects? Tucker is long gone (his house was on mrkt back in spring by the way) and they couldn’t WAIT for that porblem to go away. He was washed up already when Toronto BOUGHT him out. You can’t pay a guy 2.5M/yr to put up 22 pts.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 11:33 AM MDT up reply actions
A gigantic no from me. Yashin 2.0 will cost too much for too many years.
Whatever team signs him will be disappointed.
he’s already way better than Yashin ever was, and has done a lot more. That’s not a very good comparison.
Yashin had 6 40+ goal seasons his entire career (and was a headcase)
Kovi already has 6, and he’s not a headcase.
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by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 11:34 AM MDT up reply actions
I’ll bet you right now that, barring injury, he averages over 40 goals and 80 points over the course of the next 5 seasons. He has shown absolutely no signs of becoming another Yashin. Russian and talented will not always equal Yashin.
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by Bob in Boulder on Jun 30, 2010 11:42 AM MDT up reply actions
he’s done it for 6 seasons in a row on shitty teams. He will absolutely light it up in colorado. He’s a pure goal scoring wing, like Mike Bossy but he’s bigger.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 11:47 AM MDT up reply actions
God I loved Mike Bossy. He was favorite player of the era, even over Gretzky
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by niwotsblessing on Jun 30, 2010 2:35 PM MDT up reply actions
Here’s a question for all the non Kovi people. I believe Stastny is making 6.5M this year? He scores 20-25 goals a year (yes I know he’s a set up guy). The avs say sign Kovi for 8-8.5M a year. He will score at least 40 goals, more like 50 on Stastny and Stewart line and Avs become instantly top 5 in west. That leaves the Avs with still only 2 guys over 6M/yr. Stewart, Duchene, Mueller, Stastny all should be locked up for around next cooiple years at least so who is there left to pay all this cap space money to? Presuming their young d make it up they will be on smallish salaries as well. If Pittsburgh can pay Crosby, Staal, Malkin, etc. the Avs should be at leats able to pay these two and keep their core.
That’s what bugs me. Detroit can have three players over $7M per. San Jose can have three guys over $7M per. Vancouver can have the Sedins at $7M per plus their filthy rich goalie. WHY CAN’T WE HAVE NICE THINGS!?!
"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny
we tend to break things (look at those man games lost to injury).
retsasiddetagitimnuna. I’m petty sure that’s contagious, stay away.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 30, 2010 11:36 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
even if you couldn’t, you trade yip, jones or galaradi and if your scouting is as good as everyone says it is you have their replacement in the pipeline. There are three irreplaceible players on this team, Duchene, Stewart and Anderson. Everyone else could be replaced at some point by a younger player or even a low rent vet. There is no way you can draft or trade for a player like kovie, so if you have to sacrifice a couple of tallented younger forwards at a later date I don’t see how you can not do it.
retsasiddetagitimnuna. I’m petty sure that’s contagious, stay away.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 30, 2010 11:35 AM MDT up reply actions
That is a problem I would love to have in the future.
by pikeyrubbish on Jun 30, 2010 11:37 AM MDT up reply actions
FYI
Malkin is every bit as bad defensively as Kovi, and the Pens are doing just fine with him.
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by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 11:38 AM MDT up reply actions
I admit that Malkin doesn’t look like he skates very hard at times when he’s back checking. But to say that he’s bad defensively is something that I don’t agree with. From someone that’s lived in Pittsburgh for 8 years, I’ve seen a lot of Pens games. And Malkin definitely does his share in the defensive zone. He’s strong on the puck in all 3 zones, whether it’s on his stick or an opposing player’s. What Malkin is remarkably bad: faceoffs. He needs to be on a line with a winger that can take faceoffs or consider them lost. He’s also really bad about making too many moves on the blue line, leading to a stoppage in play when his wingers get whistled for being offside.
by c0nquistad0rian on Jun 30, 2010 11:48 AM MDT up reply actions
Umm
No time to look them up now, but the stats don’t agree with you. He’s used heavily in the offensive zone (hidden with zone starts) and his line still gives up a ton of shots against.
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by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 11:49 AM MDT up reply actions
He’s also basically been playing with third line wingers.
by c0nquistad0rian on Jun 30, 2010 11:51 AM MDT up reply actions
Malkin is good defensively when he wants to be. He steps it up when he team needs it.
Kovalchuk has no clue how to play defense even if he wanted to.
I broke up with “the stats” when Wolski received 4 3rd-place votes for the Selke, which I can only trace back to Mirtle’s “Selke love” post from last year.
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by Dan Winkler on Jun 30, 2010 12:01 PM MDT up reply actions
Blame me for my votes not any one else!
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by James Mirtle on Jun 30, 2010 10:58 PM MDT up reply actions
I’m amazed you found this
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Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 11:21 PM MDT up reply actions
FYI- none of the great offensive guys play any D to speak of, see OV. They are there to play O and the coaches work around that as best they can with the D they play when they are on the ice. Patrick Kane has never seen the whites of his goalies’ eyes.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 11:52 AM MDT up reply actions
wait wait wait, you’re telling me that zetterburg and datsyuk who are great offensive guys can’t play D? That’s just two examples off the top of my head. sakic didn’t play any d? forsberg didn’t backcheck like he wanted to hurt people?
i can keep going..
maybe an internet pipe froze and burst
mwuahaha
no forsberg was not a great defensive player, neither was sakic.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 2:39 PM MDT up reply actions
Toews
The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 2:18 PM MDT up reply actions
well said. First, it’s not exactly like Yip. Jones, or Galiardi have done anything in the NHL. Two were rookies so I wouldn’t exactly say they are established even. Kovi is the kind of guy who comes along ONCE as a UFA in 5-6 years. He’s a pure goal scorer and there are only 7-8 guys in league like that. Stastny is a pure set up guy so a great fit too.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 11:43 AM MDT up reply actions
Dater Twitter
Avs won’t make offer to Kovi.
The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 11:49 AM MDT reply actions
‘Cause it’s already been done?
MHH: The Burgundy Army is on the March!
I'm The Canary - but I'm not cute nor cuddly, and I don't sing.
by Americanario on Jun 30, 2010 11:49 AM MDT up reply actions
As I just commented on Dater’s blog: So, are they going to lower ticket prices while they “build from within?”
Quitter's People United Member #33
"I am a business major in college after all." - One MHR commenter's rationale for knowing more about the Denver Broncos than I do. LOL.
by Bob in Boulder on Jun 30, 2010 11:54 AM MDT up reply actions
Yep, in three years when all our core guys are up for new deals, Joey Hishon will storm the league at 5’8’, 160lbs of fury and win the Hart trophy
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 11:57 AM MDT up reply actions
I was joking (slightly) but he’s probably in the middle of those two. He’s little though. Sorry, I am biased, I hated that pick, esp. at 17. You name me 3 guys who are dominant players at that size. (5’9", 180). In the west I think of Iginla, Thronton, Heatley, Marleau, Penner, Getzlaf, etc. And please, please don’t tell me he’s Patrick Kane! Kane is a very special talent.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 12:18 PM MDT up reply actions
He’s probably a nicer guy than Patrick Kane.
Quitter's People United Member #33
"I am a business major in college after all." - One MHR commenter's rationale for knowing more about the Denver Broncos than I do. LOL.
by Bob in Boulder on Jun 30, 2010 12:19 PM MDT up reply actions
he has to be or else he will get beat up! he’s small
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 12:21 PM MDT up reply actions
bny the way if he’s 5’ 10 and 190 I’m 10’ 2’’ and 500lbs
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 12:26 PM MDT up reply actions
You make it look good.
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
Screw the Wings.
by i2strange97 on Jun 30, 2010 12:41 PM MDT up reply actions
You don’t think Kroenke got rich by offering low low discount prices do you???… oh wait…..
by jd21 on Jun 30, 2010 11:58 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I just posted too. I mean you can only build from within so much. Eventually you are builing from within like Columbus, Islanders, uh Flordia, maybe St. Louis, and all those teams suck. They will rebuild from with in forever.
by pikeyrubbish on Jun 30, 2010 11:58 AM MDT up reply actions
Don’t forget Edmonton.
Quitter's People United Member #33
"I am a business major in college after all." - One MHR commenter's rationale for knowing more about the Denver Broncos than I do. LOL.
by Bob in Boulder on Jun 30, 2010 11:59 AM MDT up reply actions
Yeah but they have spent some money so I couldn’t include them. Remember Pronger and they did try to get Heatly.
by pikeyrubbish on Jun 30, 2010 12:00 PM MDT up reply actions
Good point. They have proven they can fail in both modes.
Quitter's People United Member #33
"I am a business major in college after all." - One MHR commenter's rationale for knowing more about the Denver Broncos than I do. LOL.
by Bob in Boulder on Jun 30, 2010 12:34 PM MDT up reply actions
rumro has it Pronger (acquired in a trade) knocked up a girl and wifey said we are out of here, tha wasn’t a bad move by the oilers though. Signing Khabibulin was though! You give an OLD goalie a huge deal on a rebuilding team?
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 12:45 PM MDT up reply actions
Oh, and Ozolinsh, Keene, Roy, Ricci, and a bunch of others?
MHH- A drinking site with a hockey problem
Detroit Sucks
lets also give back Forsberg and require Lindros to play for the Nordiques.
by pikeyrubbish on Jun 30, 2010 2:40 PM MDT up reply actions
I couldn’t bring myself to even suggest we ever give forsberg back.
MHH- A drinking site with a hockey problem
Detroit Sucks
We did give him back however, sure it was because we couldn’t give him a fair offer due to the “new” salary cap, but he did eventually play in Philly.
MHH: The Burgundy Army is on the March!
I'm The Canary - but I'm not cute nor cuddly, and I don't sing.
by Americanario on Jun 30, 2010 2:43 PM MDT up reply actions
FYI:
Less than 1/2 the top 19 Avs of all time were from within.
The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 2:47 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm projecting
The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 2:48 PM MDT up reply actions
I still have issues with that list.
by Pinchy The Lobster on Jun 30, 2010 4:07 PM MDT up reply actions
Next angry mob stop
Dater’s house.
Quitter's People United Member #33
"I am a business major in college after all." - One MHR commenter's rationale for knowing more about the Denver Broncos than I do. LOL.
by Bob in Boulder on Jun 30, 2010 12:00 PM MDT up reply actions
I will bring the Pikes. Kroenke your head is mine.
by pikeyrubbish on Jun 30, 2010 12:01 PM MDT up reply actions
I’ll start burning down Walmarts and piss in the hot tub at his Pepsi Center condo.
Quitter's People United Member #33
"I am a business major in college after all." - One MHR commenter's rationale for knowing more about the Denver Broncos than I do. LOL.
by Bob in Boulder on Jun 30, 2010 12:10 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I will burn Edward Jones Dome to the ground and then gather the ashes, eat them up, crap them out, put it in a paper grocery bag, go to his front porch, set the bag on fire, ring the door bell and then when he answers punch him in the face.
by pikeyrubbish on Jun 30, 2010 12:38 PM MDT up reply actions
I like the way you operate.
Quitter's People United Member #33
"I am a business major in college after all." - One MHR commenter's rationale for knowing more about the Denver Broncos than I do. LOL.
by Bob in Boulder on Jun 30, 2010 12:43 PM MDT up reply actions
I like the way I operate too. Boy that is going to be a lot of money for gasoline.
by pikeyrubbish on Jun 30, 2010 12:45 PM MDT up reply actions
Mob frenzy mob frenzy weeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
Screw the Wings.
by i2strange97 on Jun 30, 2010 12:50 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm not usually this kind of fan...
But I’ll be a bit pissed if this is true
"We're going to have to learn the rules and how to play,"
Red Wings quote
Really?
2 things to remember:
1. This is coming from the MasterDater. His flair for investigative journalism has likely not been sufficient to incent him to leave his bed this week.
2. This is still PL we’re talking about. Breathe.
2009-2010 Colorado Avalanche - Much more gooderer than last year!
I don’t always think Dater is that great, but he seemed awfully positive. He’s usually correct when he has that tone.
MHH- A drinking site with a hockey problem
Detroit Sucks
I agree
Looks like a done deal. On the bright side, Sham Wow and mouthguard aren’t coming back and our RFAs will all be signed.
"Being called an off-the-board pick, I love it. I can’t wait to prove everyone wrong and show that’s where I belong to be drafted." - Joey Hishon
The Colorado Avalanche: every second, every shift, every play
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Hammel-Chicken wearing USA gear says "booo"
The 09/10 Colorado Rockies: Starring Johnny Herrera as THE ANSWER
THIS IS BUFFALO NATION GODZILLA HAS AWAKEN - abayarde
why are you laughing!? i am confused, hurt, and PISSED OFF
by toothandnailer777 on Jun 30, 2010 12:01 PM MDT up reply actions
David Jones sucks.
Quitter's People United Member #33
"I am a business major in college after all." - One MHR commenter's rationale for knowing more about the Denver Broncos than I do. LOL.
by Bob in Boulder on Jun 30, 2010 12:01 PM MDT up reply actions
OH I get it now
Winnik is next Kovalchuk!!!!!
by toothandnailer777 on Jun 30, 2010 12:05 PM MDT reply actions
That sound you hear is the shredding of season ticket applications
…
"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny
exactly, I’m surprised that coming off a surpirising season they don’t realize that he will pay for a good chunk of his salary with season ticket increases. It just rpoves they really don’t want to win, just be competitive and plug along.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 12:24 PM MDT up reply actions
Dear Avs Management
It takes money to make money. I hope this is a bluff.
Never trust the lunch lady.
by Hardshell_Taco_del_Lowayne on Jun 30, 2010 12:26 PM MDT reply actions
As much as I dont want Kovy I was hoping they take a run at him just so we know Kroenke is willing to open the wallet.
When Quenneville left one of the issues apparently was he didnt think the Avs youth were as good as management did.
it’s the same now, listen to this site. Everybody thinks the Avs young D are sooo good. I bet you 2 pan out at most and neither will be Ray Bourgue. When you have a proven commodity you go after it if you can. You only need 2-3 really good core guys to turn a team around. Look at what Toews, Kane and Keith did for the Hawks. Malkin and Crosby for Pens.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 12:34 PM MDT up reply actions
I just hope they’re willing to open the wallet when the right guy comes along.
This team needs a defensive upgrade in a bad way.
Quincey proved he could play “in a bad way” during the latter half of last season. Oh, wait, that doesn’t help ……
Quitter's People United Member #33
"I am a business major in college after all." - One MHR commenter's rationale for knowing more about the Denver Broncos than I do. LOL.
by Bob in Boulder on Jun 30, 2010 12:48 PM MDT up reply actions
I like quincey, you have to remember that he had to play with hannan, who SUCKS! if you play him with even foote he would be much better. He had to give up his offense to babysit dipshit Hanna.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 12:52 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah, because Hannan wasn’t one of our best defensemen ALL YEAR….. /sarcasm.
Forever grateful that Joe Sakic isn't a douche bag like Brett Favre.
by Rather Dashing on Jun 30, 2010 12:53 PM MDT up reply actions
agree to disagree, if you watch games he’s slow, always out of position, and doesn’t use his size (220lbs). He’s being paid 4.5M, that’s second on the team. He is def. not worth that by anybody’s standard. I will bet you 100K the avs will not resing him next year and if he was coveted by them they would sign him. He’s not a good player, you remember in 2008 how bad the press was on him?
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 12:56 PM MDT up reply actions
I kind of agree but he’s SUPPOSED to be that guy and he’s making a lot of money. They are too little back there Liles, Cumiskey are really small and Foote is a role player at this point 5-6 d-man. They need to trade one of the little guys if they can and it has to Cumiskey b/c nobody will take liles contract. Wilson was a throw in and a 6th d-man too. They have nobodyu as well to qb the power play as a d-man and no one has a big shot. Kurtis Foster would be nice.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 1:08 PM MDT up reply actions
My biggest complaint on Hannan is he is totally lost whenever the puck hits his stick.
Brannigan's Law is like Brannigan's love, hard and fast.
I had seats on the glass for the last couple of years, when Hannan gets the puck it’s complete panic on his face. Defensively he’s average.
retsasiddetagitimnuna. I’m petty sure that’s contagious, stay away.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 30, 2010 4:46 PM MDT up reply actions
by which i mean he’s very good positionally but doesn’t hardly ever use his body.
retsasiddetagitimnuna. I’m petty sure that’s contagious, stay away.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 30, 2010 4:47 PM MDT up reply actions
More interesting bits from AD’s latest blog:
The Avs definitely will let their older unrestricted free agents go. Darcy Tucker, Brett Clark, Marek Svatos, Ruslan Salei, Stephane Yelle and Chris Durno will not be brought back.
Still working on a deal for Hendricks, and he thinks they will sign all of their RFAs.
Quitter's People United Member #33
"I am a business major in college after all." - One MHR commenter's rationale for knowing more about the Denver Broncos than I do. LOL.
by Bob in Boulder on Jun 30, 2010 12:31 PM MDT reply actions
that’s good news, now they need a wing who can score so I don’t have to watch Galiardi on the top line.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 12:35 PM MDT up reply actions
You know I think you were right Kronke has become a Monfort now. Great 15 years of sucking ahead.
by pikeyrubbish on Jun 30, 2010 12:48 PM MDT up reply actions
that is funny! so true though. they will never get another shot at a wing like him when they have all that MONEY.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 1:04 PM MDT up reply actions
Not to mention...
Makes our team instantly better (and competitive with anyone in the west), fills seats, brings excitement, and so on.
It all depends on Kovalchuk’s contract when he actually signs somewhere. If the price is already over $9 mil/year under the cap then Sherman is right to be out of the bidding.
by Inebriated Simian Miscreants on Jun 30, 2010 1:26 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah but...
to come out to a reporter and say that you won’t even try is just weak.
by pikeyrubbish on Jun 30, 2010 1:30 PM MDT up reply actions
Stewart Stastny Jones
Mueller Duchene Hejduk
Galiardi O’reilly Yip
winnick hendricks mcleod
OR
Stewart Stastny Kovalchuk
Mueller Duchene Hejduk
Galiardi O’reilly Jones
winnick hendricks mcleod
Trade Yip or Jones (or throw in Stoa too) with either Liles or Hannan, sign Mitchell and Michalek. Now there’s a team
kovi just makes them instantly competitve. There top 2 lines would be right there with anybody and think how good their power play would be. I mean, f—-ing Tucker played on the 2nd unit last year! The league is all special teams now and that’s why Kovi would be so good. How many goals would he score on crosby or thornton’s line? I honestly don’t know who his centers have been for last couple years and he still produces.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 12:50 PM MDT up reply actions
This is bordering on the comments on hockeybuzz
Our D are not going anywhere. They might sign someone, they might not. We have a team even if we do nothing.
As for Yip and Jones. They will stay. Sacco loves North American college players. He wants them to stay. Yip is one of those players like Drury. Things just seem to work for him wherever he goes.
I have been too busy to comment, but please take a look at the plethora of players that are UFA’s next summer. I know that is a far-flung argument, but Kovy is it for this summer. Next summer will be like going to Costco. Not to mention next summer we need to pay Andy.
I agree with signing Kovy, i do. BUT I think ransacking these young kids just to make room is the wrong tactic.
Either fit him in without changing everything or don’t do it.
I do like Michalek though.
Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.
they can sign kovi and not lose ANYBODY. That said, if they did where are you going to play a yip, 4th line? he’s not a 4th line guy, thus my point is to use him as trade bait and get a d-man or 2
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 1:34 PM MDT up reply actions
At first yes. In this scenario he plays on the 4th line. Then again unless we used some magic, or rose-scented glove perfume like last year, there will be injuries. If we are healthy and can afford to trade him, we do it at the deadline to address issues.
We have so much young talent that should pan out. Its super cheap now, but it won’t be in the future. It will hit us like an…avalanche. See what i did there?
And no, BIB, i am still in favor of signing him. I mean, it’s Kovalchuk. SoS would have like 600 assists.
Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.
whoa, so you’re saying you play him on 4th line? That’s for grinders, not yip’s place. Plus, you overpay him to play there at 5 minutes a game. You still have too many spots to fill and they have other guys to take a spot for a few games. If they don’t upgrade their D, they are going nowhere this year.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 1:41 PM MDT up reply actions
Like we went nowhere last year? I have hear that before.
Sorry but the Avalanche brass have done well to create a good, young team. Adding Kovy in will take some work. Worthwhile work, but work none the less. In order to do that, you either throw away younger players or find some motley of line combinations.
Plus, Hejduk is not playing for 5 more years. He signed a one-year extension. His body is breaking, if we have to cram Yip on the 4th for a year until Hedjuk is done, that is fine by me. I want Duke to retire as an Av. Yip can bloody wait until Hedjuk is done. Also, Yip can hit. He could be a scoring grinder for a bit.
Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.
uh, last year was a nice improvement but you better pray they start 10-1 again and anderson stands on his head. Barely making the playoffs as the 8th seed is not exactly my goal this year. By any chance do you remember how they ended last year? It was ugly and they are not close to say a SJ or Vancouver, not close. Yip is a fringe player, he will not be or should not be a first or second line guy. I like him but he’s not going to be a star. If hejduk were to leave (he’s got a couple more years I think) that would free up lots of money so go sign someone? I’m not following you. Let’s say duke reitred and yip gets traded, how bout you gte Lombardi for the 3-4M duke was making. Lombardi is way better than yip.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 1:57 PM MDT up reply actions
Lombardi is better than Yip? I mean you can hold that opinion, I personally think Yip will be better and he doesn’t cost 3-4 mil.
As per Hejduk. I learned from Jibbles and the totalitarian editor here (DDC) to make sure i know length of contracts. Hejduk is an UFA next year. He got a 1 year extension this year. It seemed to us at the time that it was to play one more year and then retire.
Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.
yep, I do, he had 54 pts last year. Yip had a nice rookie year, I like him but he’s no star. You put anybody on a top line who has scroing touch they will put up points. I meant with Hejduk he will not retire, I know he’s on a one year deal which is wht I said they could resign somebody else with that money. The main question is this: You think the Avs can compete with the top teams in the west the way they are right now?
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 2:34 PM MDT up reply actions
Yes, I do
I have about 50 reasons. But before I delve into those, please do not make the assumption I am against Kovalchuk nor do I think he is a bad signing.
I do not think we can win the cup until Duchene and Radar develop a bit more and our D situation solidifies. We will need to add a scoring winger, agreed. Kovalchuk would be great. But there are others (cough Parise cough) that might be traded for.
I think we can compete. If we were healthy against San Jose, I think that series is a toss up. Do we win the cup? No. We need development. We resemble Chicago 2 years ago and Pittsburgh 3 years ago. They added scoring talent and we should as well. But it does not have to happen right away.
Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.
I don’t and I have 10 reasons why. Anderson was off the charts for the beg. of the year. They will not start that strong again (they were a 500 team after the start) and can you really expect Anderson to play that well again or that mnay minutes without wearing out. Despite the chatter here in my opinion yip and jones, etc. are average players. Look at the guys chicago and pittsburgh has? you win with those types of stars as the core. Who do the avs have besides duchene, stastny, and stewart who really are above the pack?
Regarding playoffs, they stole 1 game when anderson made a million saves and they were horribly outplayed the entire series. If you take away Boyle shooting into his net they win 1 game. The shots were like 50-20 every game, that’s complete DOMINATION of an opponent. The avs scored what, 1 goal in 3 games? Regardless of injuries that is a thrashing.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 2:47 PM MDT up reply actions
I know, and our corsi number sucked every game
I do not have the time to do a player by player comparison of Chicago and us. Kane and Toews: i say equal SoS and Duchene. Development timing is off, but I think based on skill set, it’s there. Are they Malkin and Crosby? No, but I do think if SoS was on an east coast team, he’s a 100 point producer.
We have an incredible 3rd line center who parallels Staal, or at least will in a year or two. Our D corp of course needs work and does not compare to Chicago. But with the prospects in the pipeline I think its there or at least might be there.
As for above the pack. Though Stewart and Mueller and Jones do not compete alone with Sharp. I do think that as a whole, the entire corp of scorer potential, of course key word there is potential, is greater than Chicago. They added Hossa. We will add someone.
Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.
I like o’reilly but in no way does he compare to staal, staal has WAY more offense, he went 2nd or 3rd on the draft. Regardless, Chciago has lots more than avs. Bolland for expample is a 3rd line guy there. He’s top 2 linmes on Avs for sure. Regardless, how do you get better? Draft a midget and then wait 3 years for him to contrubute? By then you have all your established guys coming up on new deals and you can’t keep them. You try to win now and they can give up NOTHING and gte Kovi. Even if Parise was availbale can you imagine the ransom you would have to pay? So then you rob the Avs of superstars like jones or yip or oreilly. Why not try to competer now, they have cap space? What’s the risk?
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 3:25 PM MDT up reply actions
mmhmm....
superstars like jones or yip
superstars like yip? i’ve already seen you multiple times say yip will never be a star… at least be consistent man.
but yes, we should try to get kovie UFA x1000 before we try parise in a trade, i fully agree.
maybe an internet pipe froze and burst
mwuahaha
I was kidding but that’s what we are “risking losing” for our future. Those guys are not what will get us the cup, trust me. Guys like Sharp anmd Hossa, Bolland can all light it up and aren’t even first line guys on Hawks. The avs are not even close to that talent and Kovi would be a step in the right direction
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 3:35 PM MDT up reply actions
Sorry, but according to Section 4, Clause 9, Subparagraph C of the “build from within” rule book, there will be no trading for Parise, or anyone else good, for that matter, because we don’t want to give up our prized prospects in order to win.
"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny
exactly, there is no such thing as build from within in a salary cap era! Guys come and go but if you avoid long term deals on duds your risk is low. Players come and go and you adjust. Chicago traded away some guys to fit the cap (nice problem to have) and got a ton of draft picks in return so they will stay ahead of the curve. If you have 50M to spend you simply get the best team 50M cn buy. The only risk is giving too long of a big deal to a dud.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 3:28 PM MDT up reply actions
Yip
If he starts on the 4th line, fine. It’s not like there won’t be injuries, he’ll get plenty of ice time.
The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 2:20 PM MDT up reply actions
they have other guys that’s all I’m saying. If you sign Kovi you can easily affored to trade jones or yip. They can always bring up winnick or mcceold to play on the thrid line and who cares who the new 4th line guy is. There are not going to be able to keep all these guys going forward
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 2:25 PM MDT up reply actions
I still don’t see Stewart being on the first line if Hejduk is healthy. Stewart had a fine run, but I am not convinced.
by Pinchy The Lobster on Jun 30, 2010 4:13 PM MDT up reply actions
I wonder if there is any hang over from the “Lets No Play Jones” from last year.
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
Screw the Wings.
don’t know but if you play anybody on the first line they will score b/c stastny will set them up. If cheecho can score 50 playing with thornton you have to wonder how good Kovi would be with a good center.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 1:01 PM MDT up reply actions
Shortsighted
By not filling the need for a left wing scoring threat, should we be close to a playoff spot come March and need to fill that role, we will now have to trade away picks/prospects/players to get what we just passed up on, and guaranteed to be not as talented.
The cost of signing Kovie was $8-9 million. The cost of not signing Kovie could be Cohen or Gaunce or Pickard or Chewy or 2012’s No. 1, plus the cost of whatever lesser wing they shove down our throat.
"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny
Whom is he bluffing though?
Everyone knows Lacroix is one of, if not the, best GM for signing people and making trades. Again, this is coming from Dater, Kovy could suddenly agree to an Avalanche offer that parallels Zetterberg’s. If its about getting as much money as he can, LA or someone will offer 10 million. I think he’s worth around 8. Duchene will be too. There, I said it.
Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.
Sorry Mile High Hockey, but I am precient, I know what Kovy will do.
Jimmy Howard will convince Kovy to play for Detroit for 35 cents a year for 15 years.
Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.
The Lacroix way
Signing Kovi to a long term deal is NOT the way Pierre Lacroix has done business.
Thinking back, he would bring in the ‘hot’ high-priced free agents for a look-see at the trading deadline. If they produced, and jelled with the team, he might sign them long term. Think Blake and Bourque. If they did not work out (Fleury), then they were not re-signed. Roy was an exception – but remember that Lacroix had been his agent. The Selanne and Kariya deals were one-year deals.
Under Giguere, the Avalanche did sign two long-term deals – Smyth and Hannan. Hum – neither one worked out. Smyth is gone, and Hannan will not be back after his contract expires, if not sooner.
I think Lacroix would look no further than these deals to back away from high priced, long term deals. The risk they took on Craig Anderson was very limited – and paid off handsomely, so far.
If the Avalanche had been interested in Kovi, I would have expected them to trade for him at the deadline for a ‘trial’ period. Only if that worked out both in production and team chemistry, would they have tried to sign him to a long-term deal.
Maybe the ‘Russian factor’ came into play here as well. There have been rumors around Russian players and the Russian underworld – could be business related, pressure on families of rich hockey players, etc. There were some strange off-ice rumors around Valeri Kamensky when he was in Colorado – and soon after he was gone.
I expect the ‘we are rebuilding’ answer is a way to deflect questions, and protect the ‘honor’ of Kovi (very important to Lacroix). Had the Avalanche been interested in Kovi, he would have been here at the deadline.
Therefore, what to expect in free agency? – if they Avalanche do anything, my prediction is to look at the Craig Anderson model, not the Ryan Smyth model.
Yeah but...
Look at what New Jersey gave up to get Kovy. They traded away their top rookie to get him. Plus with all of those short term trades the Avs were trading away 1st round after 1st round to get those players. They had no development for years and it started to show after the lockout. This is one of those exceptions with his stats to make an immedeate differnce.
by pikeyrubbish on Jun 30, 2010 1:58 PM MDT up reply actions
pikey is correct, why would you give up Oduya, Berfors, and pick if you can sign him for free? so you are incorrect on the trade situation. The only reason you even do what NJ did is b/c you think you can win the cup. I finally have a friend in you though b/c you agree Hannan was a disaster.
Lacroix is at his cabin as far as I know so I’m not sure he has anything to do with it anymore. He also put Giguere in and look at what he did? Wow Svatos for 2.5M, DARCY TUCKER for 5M! Smyth wasn’t that bad he would have got similar elsewhere. Taking on Salei at 3.5M! Signing Clark to 3+M, Hannan, trading a first to get foote back? So in all fairness Lacroix really shit the bed if he was really in charge as president.
You are correct though they will settle for a role player or two and get fucking stomped by SJ, Vancouver, Chciago, LA, Phoenix, etc. I predict bottom 5 in conference unless they do soemthing. These other teams are not just sititng there. Vancouver is loaded at D (ehrhoff, salo, bieska, etc. and they go get ballard and are trying to get Hamhuis too. Soemhow, SJ, first in conference was able to resign marleau and pavelski but the avs who are 20M under the cap can’t dop shit? interesting
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 2:09 PM MDT up reply actions
You are correct though they will settle for a role player or two and get fucking stomped by SJ, Vancouver, Chciago, LA, Phoenix, etc. I predict bottom 5 in conference unless they do soemthing. These other teams are not just sititng there. Vancouver is loaded at D (ehrhoff, salo, bieska, etc. and they go get ballard and are trying to get Hamhuis too. Soemhow, SJ, first in conference was able to resign marleau and pavelski but the avs who are 20M under the cap can’t dop shit? interesting
I agree with this particular (and profane) brand of criticism. Other teams are on the ball, making moves, actively getting better…and we’re just sitting. Folks, unless there’s a big trade or two or at least 3 signings, this has all the makings of a disappointing season*.
*I’m a fan(atic), so I’m allowed to freak the fuck out even before seeing what Sherman’s got up his sleeve. I’ll regain my sanity and be able to more calmly assess the team in a week or so, but right now I am pissed and pessimistic.
You'll see all your favorite soccer stars. Like Adiaga! Adiaga two! Badiaga! Aruglia! And Pizzoza!
Agree 100%, and per my fanpost, I really do think that Stan just may be getting flat out cheap on our asses. Also, by the way, I love this new thing you are doing with your comments.*
*Actually, it is annoying as hell. And I don’t really care who the fuck you got if from, it is still annoying. What is wrong with just writing something in parens? Or adding a new sentence?
Quitter's People United Member #33
"I am a business major in college after all." - One MHR commenter's rationale for knowing more about the Denver Broncos than I do. LOL.
by Bob in Boulder on Jun 30, 2010 5:27 PM MDT up reply actions
I guess Christmas came early this year
And Santa Kroenke left us a big lump of coal named Daniel Winnik under our tree. Thanks Santa Kroenke. But I was really hoping for that race track named Kovie.
Quitter's People United Member #33
"I am a business major in college after all." - One MHR commenter's rationale for knowing more about the Denver Broncos than I do. LOL.
My last ray of Kovie hope
Is that someone in the Avs’ organization is playing AD like Paul Newman’s character played Dickie Dunn in Slap Shot.
“Hey, AD, I’m really not supposed to leak this but man I’m really bummin’ here.”
“What is it PL?”
“Stan’s holding real tight on the budget, won’t even let us give Kovalchuk an offer. We’ll be lucky to sign anyone for more than 1 or 2 million and get up to the cap floor this season. Man, things are rough. But you won’t let this out, will you AD? I mean, at least don’t tell anyone you heard it from me.”
“No problem PL, I won’t reveal my source.”
AD blogs away. PL prepares to call Kovie’s agent right after midnight.
Quitter's People United Member #33
"I am a business major in college after all." - One MHR commenter's rationale for knowing more about the Denver Broncos than I do. LOL.
Pierre Lacroix hates the media, and I have the gut feeling he hates a lot of things after talking to some people who have met him.
retsasiddetagitimnuna. I’m petty sure that’s contagious, stay away.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 30, 2010 4:57 PM MDT up reply actions
Or this one...
“Hey, AD, it’s Pierre”
“How’s it going, Pierre”
“Pretty good. Just working on the start of free agency. Wanted you to be the first to know we’ve decided not to pursue Kovalchuk”
“Why’s that Pierre? You have the cap room, don’t you? And I think you might need a left wing, although I’d have to check Mile High Hockey to know for sure.”
“Honestly AD, we’re just going to build from within. We could spend the money, but we like the kids we have.”
“Thanks for the heads up, Pierre” (already typing on blog)
News 4 @ 10 PM…
Vic Lombardi: “Back from the break. Those plumbing problems at Dove Valley aren’t the only big news today. NHL free agency started just 30 minutes ago, and the Avs have already made a huge splash, signing Ilya Kovalchuk to a 6 year, $36 million dollar contract. That’s less than the sniper was expected to earn, but leave it to Pierre LaCroix….”
Pierre LaCroix, at home in velvet smoking jacket in front of TV: “AD, you stupid sumbitch, that ought to teach you to repeat what I tell you….”
This is an argument I don’t get:
Only because, while it might be fun to have him around, I don’t think I want him here.
I want to develop through drafting. I don’t want to be like the Blackhawks. Bah.
Lets sign Stewart, Mueller, and Radar first.
The Blackhawks drafted the core that will still be with them. Kane, Toews, Keith etc. And yes, while they are in cap trouble this year…next year they will still have
Kane, Toews, Bolland, Hossa, Sharp (they will resign him and ship out Versteeg), Keith, Seabrook and most likely Hjalmarsson, Niemi, Campbell (who was phenomenal in the playoffs but still has a major albatross contract) and more. THey will still be a tough tough team to beat…AND
They just won a flippin’ Stanley Cup! Why wouldn’t you “want to be the Blackhawks?”
Help help! I'm being repressed!
Oops, let me try that again
This is an argument I don’t get:
Only because, while it might be fun to have him around, I don’t think I want him here.
I want to develop through drafting. I don’t want to be like the Blackhawks. Bah.
Lets sign Stewart, Mueller, and Radar first.
The Blackhawks drafted the core that will still be with them. Kane, Toews, Keith etc. And yes, while they are in cap trouble this year…next year they will still have
Kane, Toews, Bolland, Hossa, Sharp (they will resign him and ship out Versteeg), Keith, Seabrook and most likely Hjalmarsson, Niemi, Campbell (who was phenomenal in the playoffs but still has a major albatross contract) and more. THey will still be a tough tough team to beat…AND
They just won a flippin’ Stanley Cup! Why wouldn’t you "want to be the Blackhawks?"
Help help! I'm being repressed!
We are following the Columbus Blue Jackets model of winning Cups.
Quitter's People United Member #33
"I am a business major in college after all." - One MHR commenter's rationale for knowing more about the Denver Broncos than I do. LOL.
by Bob in Boulder on Jun 30, 2010 3:17 PM MDT up reply actions
Florida Panthers
building from within, for a long time.
The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 3:17 PM MDT up reply actions
Atlanta Thrashers
Where they turn off every fan since they were created by letting their big names go.
by pikeyrubbish on Jun 30, 2010 3:28 PM MDT up reply actions
FYI
Hossa, Sharp, Campbell, Madden. 4 key cogs in Chicago’s team who were signed via free agency or through trades at least.
Building from within!
The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 3:20 PM MDT up reply actions
Madden was the kind of free agent I like though. Came in for a year, filled his role, and is now gone. Outside of the cap problems, I see nothing wrong with Blackhawk model. A good core of drafted talent, filled in veteran free agents and good trades (outside of Huet of course)
Help help! I'm being repressed!
Agree
I think Kovi would be one of those “Offensive talent”FA,s the core of the Avs team would still be Avs draftees
The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 3:40 PM MDT up reply actions
yeah but he was the last cog for a team already loaded and he was old (36?). The avs really don’t need a yr old 36 ye old or 32 forward. That’s why Kovi is so unique, he’s only 27. He’s in his prime and will be for next 5 years. Look what Gaborik did for NYR, how can anyone say not to sign FA’s? They would have been lost without him.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 3:44 PM MDT up reply actions
Oh, I’m not saying Madden was any kind of savior…but sometimes it’s those overlooked type of FA’s that make a difference. WHen the Hawks signed Hossa, that was the big story. But Madden instilled some leadership, and defensive responsibility in the forward group that allowed someone like an Antti Niemi to backstop a Stanley Cup winner
Help help! I'm being repressed!
totally agreed and I love Madden, great defensive player, kills penalties, etc. I’m just saying the Avs need more core talent players and Jones and Yip are not even close to Hossa and Sharp and Bolland and Versteeg, they all have way more talent.,
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 3:51 PM MDT up reply actions
At least make the comparison even
Jones, Yip, Mueller, and Stewart
Now that’s fairer. Are they equal? Not now. Could they be? That’s a debate. I think Hossa and Sharp have more scoring talent, but Mueller and Stewart could get there.
Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.
neither Hossa or Sharp were brought up through the ’Hawks system, FWIW
The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jun 30, 2010 3:55 PM MDT up reply actions
plus Stewart did score more goals in the regular season
by pikeyrubbish on Jun 30, 2010 4:10 PM MDT up reply actions
those guys are not first line players for hawks, Stewart is and he compares just fine. That’s what I was saying. If I say Kane, Toew, Sharp, Hossa vs that group above it’s embarrassing and makes me want to cry foul
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 3:58 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah, I saw how Madden led Kane in the limo when they had their shirts off. Kane, I can understand – he’s a fucking moron, plus he’s like 12. A little harder to understand from a 36-year-old veteran.
Just goes to show that you don’t need a bunch of boy scouts when you’ve got talent.
You'll see all your favorite soccer stars. Like Adiaga! Adiaga two! Badiaga! Aruglia! And Pizzoza!
correct, you always bring in guys when you are ready to compete. Heatley (what a great trade for SJ), Gonchar/Guerin when Pens won, Chara/Savard for Boston, Philly’s whole team is FA and trades practically (carter/richards nice picks though). Where would Philly be without Briere, Hartnell, Pronger, Timmonen? Samuelson did some nice work for Vancouver, eh? Even thronton wasn’t drafted by SJ so trades, FA’s are a must to compete.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 3:41 PM MDT up reply actions
there’s a good thought with a modification- go get sharp ijn a trade, he’s a good sniper and would staisfy me if they don’t sign kovi. That said please don’t trade Jones! He’s the next Cam Neely!
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 3:48 PM MDT up reply actions
don’t forget they’d have about 5 mill in cap space today if someone knew how to work a fax machine in their front office.
retsasiddetagitimnuna. I’m petty sure that’s contagious, stay away.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 30, 2010 4:58 PM MDT up reply actions
You’re exactly a million percent right and I’ve been saying it all along that the Blackhawks would be fine because they have talent and assets and no shortage of idiot GMs to bail them out. I didn’t think it would happen 2 days after the Cup final with the first trade they had to make, but that’s what I get for underestimating the level of stupidity among some GMs, especially out East.
The Blackhawks gambled and took risks and fucked up sometimes (Havlat, Campbell, Huet) and had to suffer but what they did the most was TAKE ACTION, not sit around on their asses and not sign anyone and just build from within.
You'll see all your favorite soccer stars. Like Adiaga! Adiaga two! Badiaga! Aruglia! And Pizzoza!
The Stan Plan
So, I can assume that the Nuggets won’t be signing Carmello to an extension? Or is it OK to sign crowd-pleasing franchise players as long as you drafted them.
I hate to break it to the Avs, but there’s no bonus goals added on to the score sheet simply because a player came up through your system.
"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny
Sign Kovie
And really, I think it’s gonna happen. This is classic Pierre Lacroix stuff. (OK, maybe I’m dreaming, but I’m jumping on this bandwagon, just as I jumped on the Tebow Broncos bandwagon about a week before the draft – and I called the shit out of that one on draft night, telling 2 of my brothers that the Broncos would trade back in at the end of the 1st round and draft him.)
It would not surprise me if the Avs actually don’t make an offer, but I just can’t get over this feeling that we’ll be getting the news at some point in the morning that Ilya Kovalchuk signed a long-term deal with the Avs, somewhat similar to the Hossa deal in Chicago.
"Andrew Raycroft - Much like Martin Brodeur (chip shot off glass) and Rick DiPietro (quick outlet pass from behind net), has developed his own trademark play for clearing the zone: 'faceoff at center ice'." - Down Goes Brown
hope you’re right! There’s one difference though, Kovi is a proven commodity. If you really think about it the Avs have depleted themselves over the last few years so normally they would have had a guy like Kovi on their team that they were paying that kind of money anyway. They only have 1 guy over 6M (Stas) and that will not change even when they sign stewart/Mueller. How can they not try to sign him. He’s 27 and they have an obvious need at left wing. Who could they possibly get via free agency next year?
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 4:19 PM MDT up reply actions
this is curious to me, the team is weak at LW and one of the top 5 LW’s is coming onto the market and he’s not old and beat up like smyth.
retsasiddetagitimnuna. I’m petty sure that’s contagious, stay away.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 30, 2010 4:28 PM MDT up reply actions
More like one of the top 2 LW’s in the world
by pikeyrubbish on Jun 30, 2010 4:30 PM MDT up reply actions
i didn’t want to get into an arguement about where he was ranked at.
retsasiddetagitimnuna. I’m petty sure that’s contagious, stay away.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 30, 2010 5:01 PM MDT up reply actions
Maybe I missed this theory in all the comments
But maybe the Avs have intel on NJ working a deal out with Kovy and they won’t be targeting him because he won’t be a free agent.
Brannigan's Law is like Brannigan's love, hard and fast.
unlikely b/c he wants to test market, Devils need to resign Parise and Martin too.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 4:23 PM MDT up reply actions
However, Lou Lamoriello is trying very hard to sign Kovie, even going so far as to deny trading his rights to Los Angeles in order to work out a deal. This is the most telling thing about Ilya Kovalchuk that shitcans all of the negative comments you read on the Avs official forum. If he wasn’t worth the money, one of the top GMs in the league wouldn’t be trying up to the 11th hour to get him signed.
"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny
they gave up a shitload to get him, that’s why
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 4:40 PM MDT up reply actions
I don’t see Lou compounding one mistake by making another. Lou would have at least traded away the rights to get something out of nothing unless he felt he could get a deal done. And Lou wouldn’t commit the kind of scratch it’s going to take unless he was sure it was a good move.
"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny
I agree but why is anybody going to give him anything when they can wait. I mean if the Devils sign him it’s a mute point, so they just wait.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 4:50 PM MDT up reply actions
Alla this noise just makes me want to roar.
Hulk Smashing is the way go, homies.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
by SlamDunkTheFunk on Jun 30, 2010 4:37 PM MDT reply actions
I figure tomorrow will be the last big chat day for the offseason. Once it’s confirmed that Kovie isn’t coming here, the only thing left to do is sit around and stroke the idea of the same team being better simply because they are five months older than the last time we saw them.
"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny
Oh yeah
FA day is one of MHH’s finest hours. With no dev camp this year (qq), we have to sit around and pine for Joe to finish the Top 19 List and twiddle our thumbs. Yaaaay.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
by SlamDunkTheFunk on Jun 30, 2010 4:45 PM MDT up reply actions
well
Since you haters are apparently going to win, you can have one big circle jerk about how great it is that Stan isn’t spending any money on payroll?
Quitter's People United Member #33
"I am a business major in college after all." - One MHR commenter's rationale for knowing more about the Denver Broncos than I do. LOL.
by Bob in Boulder on Jun 30, 2010 5:09 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't believe I've ever taken a stance, playa.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
by SlamDunkTheFunk on Jun 30, 2010 5:14 PM MDT up reply actions
we’re not going to talk about daniel winnik all summer?
retsasiddetagitimnuna. I’m petty sure that’s contagious, stay away.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 30, 2010 5:11 PM MDT up reply actions
we’re not going to talk about daniel winnik allsummerweekend?
The answer is still no.
"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny
Daniel who?
Quitter's People United Member #33
"I am a business major in college after all." - One MHR commenter's rationale for knowing more about the Denver Broncos than I do. LOL.
by Bob in Boulder on Jun 30, 2010 6:20 PM MDT up reply actions
hey, this is more run then he’s gotten since the great winnik family reunion of 04’
retsasiddetagitimnuna. I’m petty sure that’s contagious, stay away.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 30, 2010 9:36 PM MDT up reply actions
TRIVIA QUESTION?
Ok, we have lots of highly educated hockey people on this site, correct? Name me the top center(S) on Atlanta for the last 5 years?
Peverly, White, Belanger, Savard......Holik?
Maybe?
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
by SlamDunkTheFunk on Jun 30, 2010 4:43 PM MDT up reply actions
Savard was 6 years ago and the last decent center he played with. It’s mostly been white! Is that unreal or what? If he was on the caps instead of OV or playing with Thornton or that type guy how many goals would he score? The fact 40+ for last 6 years says a lot. Plus, peverly a waiver pick-up to boot.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 4:48 PM MDT up reply actions
yea that is about right. Not a bad list really, not great but not bad.
by avalanchejef on Jun 30, 2010 4:48 PM MDT up reply actions
Not a bad list??
I doubt any of those guys scored more than 50 points, tbh.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
by SlamDunkTheFunk on Jun 30, 2010 4:49 PM MDT up reply actions
antropov this year too, he had 67 points. Those guys are not any kind of centers though compared with most teams number 1 center. I would rather have Duchene at 19 than any of those guys.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 4:53 PM MDT up reply actions
Oh!
I forgot about this year. LOL. I knew Antropov. I failed.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
by SlamDunkTheFunk on Jun 30, 2010 4:54 PM MDT up reply actions
no, HE failed! I could get 70 points ankle skating around with Kovi
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 4:56 PM MDT up reply actions
Little?
retsasiddetagitimnuna. I’m petty sure that’s contagious, stay away.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 30, 2010 5:03 PM MDT up reply actions
who plays for atlanta, which is why I don’t know the answer.
retsasiddetagitimnuna. I’m petty sure that’s contagious, stay away.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 30, 2010 5:10 PM MDT up reply actions
who has the most goals in nhl the last 5 years?
anybody know?
Hmmm
Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Heatley, Iginla, Lecavalier? I’m not sure on the last two.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
by SlamDunkTheFunk on Jun 30, 2010 5:00 PM MDT up reply actions
I don’t know the answer, it’s hard to find it on a search, sounds about right though. Crosby might be in there or Marleau/Parise. Kind of says it all though regarding Kovi. Why wouldn’t they get him? Funny thing is 3 of those 5 not with the teams that drafted them.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 5:04 PM MDT up reply actions
Overpayment
it seems like whenever the avs sign a free agent it ends up that they are really worth about a million less cap hit then they really are. Just me or do you guys feel that too.
It could be a league wide thing but I haven’t analized (and I don’t intend to either).
retsasiddetagitimnuna. I’m petty sure that’s contagious, stay away.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 30, 2010 5:08 PM MDT reply actions
it’s typical b/c of their status and the interest level they secure. Thye are getting bid on and teams with a need tend to overpay. There are exceptions though, esp. on the lower end guys, Anderson a prime example. Michael Samuelson at 2.5m was a great sign for Canucks too.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 5:11 PM MDT up reply actions
A lot of the guys they have overpaid are their own too. Liles, Clark, and to a lesser degree Svatos. But sure, they probably overpaid for Smyth and Hannan. Come to think of it, Guigere sucked.
But none of those guys are Kovie. Or even close. How do you overpay for one of the best players in the league?
Quitter's People United Member #33
"I am a business major in college after all." - One MHR commenter's rationale for knowing more about the Denver Broncos than I do. LOL.
by Bob in Boulder on Jun 30, 2010 5:12 PM MDT up reply actions
what do you mean to a lesser degree with Svatos- 11 points, 13 for the year? The funny thing is all those guys were scratched at some point during the year. Name another team that has 12M worth of guys who all get scratched Salei in there too. That’s funny. If you count Tucker who should or could have been out of the league, it’s a quarter pf their payroll practically
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 5:17 PM MDT up reply actions
if he had a 8-8.5 cap hit i’m for it.
retsasiddetagitimnuna. I’m petty sure that’s contagious, stay away.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 30, 2010 5:18 PM MDT up reply actions
well, that would be Salei, Svatos and Tucker if it was last year so if you go with young guys it won’t hurt them much. How bout 4 years at 32.5M?
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 5:19 PM MDT up reply actions
I really think it’s going to take at least a 8-12 year contract, front loaded to get him, much like hossa’s but a million or two higher at the start and work your way down. He’s going to get paid.
retsasiddetagitimnuna. I’m petty sure that’s contagious, stay away.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 30, 2010 9:30 PM MDT up reply actions
I just realized that is a subjective number, because if i’m a NYR fan, it would seem like sather overpays by 3-5 million per player.
retsasiddetagitimnuna. I’m petty sure that’s contagious, stay away.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 30, 2010 5:18 PM MDT up reply actions
gaborik was a good signing though. EWhen he signed Gomez and Drury to those deals I laughed. He got lucky to unload kotalik too.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 5:21 PM MDT up reply actions
Drury made $8,050,000 last year-holy shit!
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 5:29 PM MDT up reply actions
But didn’t he win a little league world series? I’ve always thought that Drury was overrated. Nice player to have and all, but not a superstar by any stretch of the imagination.
Quitter's People United Member #33
"I am a business major in college after all." - One MHR commenter's rationale for knowing more about the Denver Broncos than I do. LOL.
by Bob in Boulder on Jun 30, 2010 5:31 PM MDT up reply actions
when you look at salaries it’s mind boggling and it makes you feel really good that you could sign Kovi for 8.5M. Wade Redden and Drury both make 8M+ last year. Lecavalier made 10M and Briere made 8M just to name a few. There are some really bad/average players making a ton of money. Gomez at 8M too. It’s just unreal.
Drury is literally a 2M player
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 5:38 PM MDT up reply actions
Let’s not insult Drury too much. He’s on Joe’s list after all.
Drury may not have the veneration of Super Joe or St. Patrick or Forseberg, but I grew up my entire life in his footsteps. He was a hallowed member of this organization…therefore he is worth every penny he gets, as long as we don’t pay it.
Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.
as long as we don’t pay it.
lol nice
Never trust the lunch lady.
by Hardshell_Taco_del_Lowayne on Jun 30, 2010 5:48 PM MDT up reply actions
the smarter thing to do would have been to pay him 3 mill a year and some easily achievible playoff bonuses to get him up to the 6 million a year—if he preforms. But there is always a guy who has bottomless pockets that screws it up for everyone.
retsasiddetagitimnuna. I’m petty sure that’s contagious, stay away.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 30, 2010 9:32 PM MDT up reply actions
I don’t think he ever won a little league world series. I’m sure we would have heard about it by now if he had
Assistant *to* the Managing Editor, Mile High Hockey
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jun 30, 2010 7:26 PM MDT up reply actions
Pick your poison
Overpay with cash for a UFA or overpay with picks/prospects/players in a trade. It’s a matter of strategy and assets to pick one or the other.
Growing from within is the ‘cheapest’ way to grow talent but the slowest and least predictable.
Never trust the lunch lady.
by Hardshell_Taco_del_Lowayne on Jun 30, 2010 5:47 PM MDT up reply actions
exactly, but what prospects (at least at forward) do the avs have? Here’s my count of forward prospects that could have an impact- ZERO in system. Their first two last year are on the team. Please name some? They don’t have any and they are super young so they have lots of guys on the cheap, they had like 6 rookies play regularly last year. They have exactly one veteran forward (Hejduk at 3M) in top 9. Who can they “build from within” with?
There only choice is to go after some guys unless they want to suck. That’s why they are uniquely positioned to get Kovi. The young d guys, I’ll buy that (even though none are bruisers), not forwards.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 5:56 PM MDT up reply actions
We are not unique. There are a lot of teams like us. We lucked out slightly because we had a huge crop of “prospects” who became bona fide players. Take LA. They have a comparable Stastny in Kopitar and a great prospect in Doughty. They have fewer forward prospects and can afford a 10 mill a year easier than us.
Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.
disagree, they have a very good team and they have Smyth to pay, have johnson, doughty, simmonds, quick, etc. all playing. They have smyth at 6M plus scuderi, borwn, etc.- more veterans at higher salaires than avs.
Quick snapshot-
2006 draft- Stewart on team-nobody else coming from that draft for sure un less you really believe Codi Burki (I mean Hishon the 2nd) or Carman are going to play
2007- Shattenkirk and Cohen first 2 picks- both D men. Galiardi on team already. No one after that except Cann – Goalie and “why you don’t tka e goalies high or at all”
2008- Genius Giguere traded our first pick for Foote, brilliant. 2nd pick- Gaunce a d-man. Here’s some pain- Delmas in 3rd, Tessier and Olver (Joey Hishon the 2nd/3rd) later
2009- you know first 2 and then 2 d-men- Barrie and Elliot and some more goalies
so there is literally nothing, nobody else is that low on forwards but it’s really not a problem if they sign FA or trade d prospects. From within they have nothing though
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 6:20 PM MDT up reply actions
Can be a little less vitriol?
It took me a long time to have faith in this building from within crap. I had to watch these rookies play above their age. There is a core of 5-6 rookies or sophomores who will develop into an amazing team. As Foote mentioned earlier and Lacroix confirmed, this team resembles the Nordiques before they moved.
As for LA:
Simmonds? I mean he’s good, granted but I would take a handful of our players over him in a minute. We aren’t even sure if they are keeping Quick or Simmonds or Johnson for that matter. They will have salary issues yes, but they do not have a whole crop of rookies that will need to be paid. Not as many as us though.
Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.
This morning on The Score, the head of Avs’ amateur scouting was on and said he envisions the latest draft class to take from 2 to 6 years to reach the NHL. We pretty much mined every worthwhile forward out of the system last year and stuck them on the Avs. There’s nothing left to mine. We have no cavalry from within for two years.
Truth be told, the building from within worked. The Avs built a playoff team out of nothing but homegrown talent and a longshot goalie. But now it’s time to act like an NHL franchise, sack it up and play with the big boys.
You know, the really frustrating part is that I’m likely going to have to get used to the fact that the Avs are now a small-market team, in both actions and mentality. I can’t wait until we start dumping salary at the deadline and have people in the Northeast suggest we move to Hartford.
"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny
Exactly. Stan is going Monfort on us. Sorry SDTF, Monfort until recently.
Quitter's People United Member #33
"I am a business major in college after all." - One MHR commenter's rationale for knowing more about the Denver Broncos than I do. LOL.
by Bob in Boulder on Jun 30, 2010 6:53 PM MDT up reply actions
thx Dixo, that helps me out explaining this situation. The avs have them all on the big club and there’s nothing left to farm. That’s the situation and they are 20M under the cap. How can’t you sign somebody? It only makes sense if they are tightwads and that’s the case I’m afraid. We will see tomorrow. Speaking of playing with the big boys I watched game 3 of Avs vs SJ this year, holy shit did they get smoked! Anderson stood on his head and they won thx to Boyle but what a case to sign some guys.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 10:55 PM MDT up reply actions
LA has more veterans at higher salaries, way more. Handzus at 4M, Scuderi 3+M, Williams 4M, Smyth 6M, etc. What I’m saying thouhg is that the Avs have a dearth of forwards in the minors/system. They would not deny that.
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 10:46 PM MDT up reply actions
Without Kovy we can sign Mike Modano!!! It’s still 1999 right?
Brannigan's Law is like Brannigan's love, hard and fast.
free agent busts
was reading a gallery of “free agent busts” on cnnsi….. found it interesting that of the 25 shown, 10 of those were either avalanche signees or players that had played for the Avs at one point…. Drury (signed with NYR), Kamensky (signed with NYR), Gratton, Fleury (signed with CHI), Blake (signed with LA), Kariya, Selanne, Smyth signed with Avs, Kasparitis (signed with NYR), Krupp (signed with Detroit)….. No real point to all that, just thought it was interesting.
http://www.nhlnumbers.com/freeagents.php?team=none&pos=none&summer=2011&status=none&type=none
if they are saving their money for the ‘11 class of UFA prepare to be underwhelmed, not a single guy under thirty I would want the avs to sign and ’12, Hemsky is the cream of the crop if I read it right (when he’s 29). I’d at least kick the tires or fly the hell to wherever kovachuk is and give him your best shot, cause there is nothing but filler material coming down the pipeline for the next two years.
retsasiddetagitimnuna. I’m petty sure that’s contagious, stay away.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jun 30, 2010 10:18 PM MDT reply actions
that’s the whole point with kovalchuk, it’s super rare to get a player of his caliber that young
by hockeyexpert on Jun 30, 2010 10:59 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah...
…interesting. One more reason why the Avs should not sign Kovy, like the Hawks signed Hossa. Now the Hawks are dealing their talent, the people who helped them win The Cup. That’s exactly what the Avs would have to do after they won their Cup. The Avs do well enough without a player like Kovy. They’re already going to be better than they were last year, and they were just about as good as the Hawks last year. The two teams went into 8 and 9 round shootouts or OT losses in the first four meetings, or something like that. The Hawks weren’t much better than the Avs last year. Maybe those people who think Anderson made up for the lack of D, but that’s basically irrelevant…because we STILL HAVE HIM!!!! :)))))
So
the Blackhawks won a cup, and have now traded away some of their non-essential players for prospects, and will still be a contending team.
That sounds awful
The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 1, 2010 7:13 AM MDT up reply actions
you can’t be serious “the people who helped them WIN THE CUP”? I believe that is the whole point. I’ll take my chances AFTER we win the cup. If you think the Avs were as good as the Hawks you weren’t paying attention. They have almost all there key guys still (keith, Seabrook, Niemi, Toews, Kane, Bolland, Sharp, Campbell, etc). Like Jibble said they had like 6 picks in the first 3 rounds this year and will replenish seemlessly.
I haven't seen anyone else talk about this, but...
Would Kovy even WANT to come and play here? We have been listing some intangibles as being as important to the man’s decision as money: ease of winning a cup, being competitive season in and season out, etc. However, when he was going to be traded at last years’ deadline, I remember seeing one more big one: His wife and their relationship to the community. Lets take a quick look at these:
Ease of winning a cup: Everyone’s consensus seems to be that, at best, our boys are 2-3 years away from having a legitimate chance at winning the Stanley Cup. Why would this entice him to Colorado? So that he can spend two years hanging out, playing the best hockey of his life, risking injury every time he steps on the ice, only to NOT win a cup? I think he had quite enough of that in Atlanta.
Playing for a competitive team: The Avs are barely a competitive team. We have no track record of it over the last couple of years. A couple years back we intentionally tanked to get a high draft pick. Now, we are in a rebuild mode; while Andy was our sole saviour this last year, always keeping us in a game, we had long stretches where our inexperienced rookies and listless veterans had trouble eeking out a victory. What will next year be like? Or the year after? The real defensive rebuild won’t happen until the ‘11-12 season, and our kids probably won’t be ready to win a cup that season. Will we regress this next year? Will Sacco intentionally sit Hannan and Liles to give Holos and Shattenkirk ice time? Would Kovy have ANY interest in being a part of that?
Relationship to Community: I definitely remember reading over the Thrashers’ SBN boards that one of the big beefs that Kovy [and wifey] had with Atlanta as a city was the lack of a Russian immigrant community. They felt very isolated in the south, and coupled with Atlanta’s lack of success, this really drove them to request a trade, as well as NOT sign the huge offer sheet tendered by the Thrashers. Would the community here be any better for them? Why sign in Denver only to repeat the same mistake they had in Atlanta?
Kovalchuk and his agent know the same things that we know. Based on his competitive nature, and assuming his family’s need to have a little piece of home that they can lean on, I just don’t see him signing here. We could probably offer a 10mil$/yr contract, and he STILL wouldn’t want to come here. At least, not now. 2 years out? Maybe he would love to play for us. But not now. He wants to play now. 27 isn’t old, but its old enough to worry about his best chances in the near future.
Sherm/Lacroix have a pretty keen sense of which way the wind is blowing: I would think that their ambivalence toward offering Kovy a contract has a good deal to do with the stuff I mentioned above. I imagine it also has to do with the purse strings, but I doubt that money is really the only issue. Like everyone says, Kovalchuk is the best free agent to come to market this year, or in the next two, or for the last two. We all know that. But so does everyone else. If we offer 8.5, one of the 8 other teams that can afford him is sure to offer 9. There are plenty of idiotic GMs out there, or even GMs that may be totally desperate to get more fans in the seats, but SOMEONE is sure to offer more than we will. If circa 2009 Alex Tanguay is worth 8, Kovy is going to be worth 9.5 to some team.
All I hope is that Sherm makes an offer: A respectable front-loaded contract, with a sales pitch about a team poised to become a dynasty, and see what happens. I want the option to be there. You can’t win the friggin lottery if you don’t buy a ticket. Maybe we will get lucky.
Thanks Joe...
No, sir. That won’t work. I’m sure that we’d all like to see a player like him with the Avs, but it just won’t work. We keep talking about cap space, but it really doesn’t exist. This cap space we have is only the space we’d have if we had a team already at their true salary cap. We have a few players whose salaries will double and triple, or quadruple. I’m sorry, but that means we just don’t have that cap space. It’s a phantom cap space, you know? So, unless people here are ready to give up some of our best players for Kovy, it just won’t work. It won’t work, there’s no way to know how well he’ll do here, and I think it would be stupid to give up on talented youngsters for that kind of risk.
Rumor is (The Hockey News) that while the Devils want to re-sign Kovy, he’ll probably end up going to the Kings.
You obviously don’t read DDC’s work. The Avs will not be cap screwed in any way, shape, or form by signing Kovie even over the next few years.
Quitter's People United Member #33
"I am a business major in college after all." - One MHR commenter's rationale for knowing more about the Denver Broncos than I do. LOL.
by Bob in Boulder on Jul 1, 2010 9:49 AM MDT up reply actions
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