Are the Avs being too conservative with money?
by Avs_Man on Jul 21, 2010 9:11 PM MDT
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It is almost the end of July and what activity has there been. Resigning Quincy and Yip, making one minor trade and that's it. Odviously the 2009-10 Avs were a lot better than the 2008-09 edition, but will the 2010-11 team be even better? On paper (right now at least) the team is no better than last year (actually it is worse because Stewart is yet to be resigned). I'm not saying I'm angry they passed on Kovalchuk, but come on, you need to make some moves. Last year it was clear the defence needed to be better. The team has already passed on Volchenkov and Hamuis, who would have been good additions, but are expensive. What I'm saying is I want them to add players who are going to help the team (mainly defensively) and don't cost that much. Andy "You're an Expert?" Sutton is still an FA. He can block shots (so he would replace Brett Clark) , he's 6"5 and he can hit. Seeing as it is late July he probably wouldn't be an expensive addition and he looks like he would fit well on the team. In addition there still are several two-way forwards avalible that this team really could use. In this league, if you want to contend, you have to sign FAs. You don't need to spend too much money on them. You just need to add players who will help your team.
My second point is the Avs are below the cap floor by a considerable amount. Rather than over paying players you resign (Quincy at $3 million a year was suspect) use the money to add FAs on short contracts. Stewart and Mueller still need to be resigned. If they get the right amount of money and aren't overpaid than there will still be money left over to improve the roster.
I was also hoping to for contract extensions for Anderson and Hannan. It would be a good idea to get done this off season.
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I was reading somewhere, I believe ESPN, and a thought occurred to me. The Devils only have 1 offensive minded defenseman (per this source). That d-man is Greene and they are supposedly looking for another offensive guy to help push the puck up to their forwards. They are in cost cutting mode if Kovie does get signed so I doubt Liles is on the move. I highly doubt Parise is available but maybe management was setting up our team for situations like this. Not only do offensive d-men earn a lot in the free agent market, but teams are always looking for these type of players and may pay a premium. Maybe our team is centered around 2012, not only in regards to our Restricted Free Agents and free agency but creating significant trades with our amazing young defensive prospects. Just a long thought.
by Bringbackboone on Jul 21, 2010 10:06 PM MDT reply actions
I was talking to the good folks over on In You We Trust about this exact thing. We discussed who they would offer for, say, Cummers.
Me no like da Wings.
agreed
I’ve said Liles to NJ makes a lot of sense for some time.
Rolston + 1st for Liles or something. Rolston catches a lot of grief for being overpaid, but he’s still a darn good player imo. He’d fit great next to Stastny or O’Reilly.
with their salary cap problems it might have to be cumiskey.
Are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jul 22, 2010 9:51 AM MDT up reply actions
if I’m them I would want more cap space out of it.
Are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jul 22, 2010 2:22 PM MDT up reply actions
if you’re determined to get rid of JML, otherwise roadrunner for rolston and a fantastic pick.
Are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jul 22, 2010 2:39 PM MDT up reply actions
or package of picks.
Are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jul 22, 2010 2:39 PM MDT up reply actions
Lou’s not stupid, I think what they’d have to throw in with liles to make it work (either the pick or a prospect) would be too much.
Are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jul 22, 2010 2:47 PM MDT up reply actions
Liles is a perfect fit for the Devils. I think you could get Rolston (net negative) Salvador (positive value, but a wash with Rolston in value) + Liles actual value in trade, a mid 2nd or a good but not great prospect (like Urbom).
Without the salary I wouldn’t mind having Rolston on the team. It’d be like Tucker v 2.0 + hard shot.
and Rolston can skate very well. And play D/PK. And he’s 6’2" (not 5’10" like Tucker).
Rolston would look pretty nice next to O’Reilly, or even Stastny.
Yes, but you're forgetting the most important factor:
does Rolston have good hair?
Colorado Avalanche Offseason Strategy - Please wake us in October
did he play well the first time he was here? I forget. To date his most significant moment was being traded for Bourque.
Are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jul 22, 2010 3:08 PM MDT up reply actions
His first stint with the Avs wasn’t a good one. I’m guessing Lacroix wouldn’t be that eager to bring him back.
Colorado Avalanche Prospects: For daily news on the future of the Colorado Avalanche!
by Angélique C. Murray on Jul 22, 2010 4:32 PM MDT up reply actions
Liles and Kovy on the point together. yeah…too bad we couldn’t get something like that.
Assistant *to* the Managing Editor, Mile High Hockey
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jul 22, 2010 2:54 PM MDT up reply actions
For some reason, I think the Avs management are done.
They’ll give Stewart and Mueller each a two year deal and barely reach the cap floor.
They’ll leave ticket prices exactly where they are and won’t be able to figure out why more people aren’t coming to games.
I’m waiting for the off-season fireworks to happen in two years. Maybe…
I know my name is spelled "Luxury Yacht" but it's actually pronounced Throatwarbler Mangrove.
Member of the PFJ and the Spanish Inquisition.
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!!
Either this plan works or it doesn’t. I think we are a better team right now, assuming CGDS and Mueller are signed, than last year. We might have sophomore slumps, Andy might not play as well, Sacco might not coach as well. Those are all possibilities. Our defense is better not only by subtraction of Clark, but these 6 defensemen now have a year under their belts of being with one another. Now they know their partners, they know each other and I think there will be better chemistry.
We also must not forget, we are not an 8th place team if those injuries didn’t happen. We probably still don’t win the division but we are possibly 6th.
So, if this year goes badly, or we are mediocre, then the Avs brass will likely have to pony up for some talent next year. This year I think they are partially seeing just how far these rookies, or sophomore’s can go. I’m excited.
Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.
I don't understand
..why rebuilding means “not spending anything.”
I understand why the Avs need to rebuild and surely, they have done that to a large extent. They have cut away the dead wood, (Salei, Tucker, Svatos, Clark) leaving a nice gleaming core. (If you exclude meatbag Koci).
The core of the D is the same as last year. The core of the forwards is the same as last year. The goaltending is exactly the same as last year.
Why on earth does the management think we will perform better? Injuries will take their toll as they always do and there will be streaks from players, hot and cold.
How a team manages to compete over an 82 game season is by having a depth of roster. The Avs just don’t have that. They are weak on the wing and suspect in defence. I agree with Avs_Man, I would like to see Andy Sutton in the roster, as a big scary d-man to go with our small, puck moving d-men.
I would also like to see LW filled with someone, even Rafi Torres. Neither of those signings will break the bank and the Avs aren’t giving anyone a contract for more than two years, so there is little risk.
My opinion is worth about what you paid for it: Nothing.
With that I agree
I am not sure why signing a Torres would be a big deal. I can understand not going after Kovy. That would be a completely different game plan. I cannot imagine Sacco is professing that they have enough depth. The one special thing about last year is that when we lost players to injuries, other players stepped up rather admirably. Everyone could tell he was concerned about depth.
As per D, I doubt Sutton will be signed. After next year, we lose Foote, likely to retirement, and Hannan likely to free agency. That fits perfectly with Captain Kirk, Elliot, Cohen, Holos, or whomever the Avs promote.
Although, I would take Sutton in a heartbeat. And I am an expert.
Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.
it wouldn’t shock me either
Assistant *to* the Managing Editor, Mile High Hockey
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jul 22, 2010 9:37 AM MDT up reply actions
Agreed. But, I’m really curious how he’s going to play going in to the last couple years of his contract.
If the Avs defensive prospects all develop well, there’s going to be a huge backlog of defensive talent to sign/deal.
We should be really patient with young defensemen, they take forever to devlop very few start out good. If they can mix one in a year sucessfully that should be considered a sucess.
Are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jul 22, 2010 9:53 AM MDT up reply actions
Hannan’s gonna take a gigantic fucking pay cut, that’s for sure. He had his prime earning years (also known as the “Sucking at the Avs’ Teat” years). His pay cut won’t be Bret Clark-ian in its scope, but it’ll be significant. He’ll be lucky as hell to see the low $3 million range ever again.
You'll see all your favorite soccer stars. Like Adiaga! Adiaga two! Badiaga! Aruglia! And Pizzoza!
by Dan Winkler on Jul 22, 2010 3:11 PM MDT up reply actions
I bet he gets paid $3.5M/season in the next contract.
If the Avs fall out of the playoff race, I could see him being dealt for picks. If they don’t I think they’ll re-sign him.
Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 22, 2010 3:18 PM MDT up reply actions
I bet he gets paid $3.5M/season in the next contract.
Despite the fact that many NHL GMs are morons and highly unpredictable, I will take that bet.
You'll see all your favorite soccer stars. Like Adiaga! Adiaga two! Badiaga! Aruglia! And Pizzoza!
by Dan Winkler on Jul 22, 2010 4:15 PM MDT up reply actions
2.5 seems to be what guys like him (age/type of player) are getting. FYI did any of you guys know that Mark Eaton is not only in the league but being paid 2.5 a year for the next two? and he’s a year or two older than hannan.
Are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jul 22, 2010 3:20 PM MDT up reply actions
I think so
they need a defensive defenseman. He’s polarizing, but he’s a good player (solid 2nd pairing guy on a good team). And who can resist hobbits?
Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 22, 2010 9:57 AM MDT up reply actions
The dislike for him really came from him under-performing for what he was paid. I hope we do resign him. I think he’s a damn good defenseman. Foote should likely be gone though. It seems apparent that with Liles, Cumiskey, and Kirk all on one team, one of them will be traded for a forward.
Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.
I really don’t think he’s underperformed. He’s played against top opposition effectively. Anyone that knew Hannan before the trade knew he was tough, but not a big hitter. Same for his point production.
He’s a little overpaid, but that’s par for the course in UFA. I think he’s actually been one of the better UFA signings the Avs have done.
Oh i defended him since day 1. I was referring to the discontent with him that existed here.
Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.
I think Hannan’s pretty good to OK. I must admit that when the Avs signed him, the thing that kept running through my mind was the way that he absolutely blanketed Foppa in several pre-lockout playoffs series.
Though he didn’t stop Foppa (you cannot hope to), he did at least contain him. I’ve not seen anything but very brief flashes of that player since he came to COL.
Colorado Avalanche Offseason Strategy - Please wake us in October
I’m not sure he’s overpaid anymore.
Are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jul 22, 2010 2:23 PM MDT up reply actions
He makes more than Anton Volchenkov
He’s still WAY fucking overpaid.
You'll see all your favorite soccer stars. Like Adiaga! Adiaga two! Badiaga! Aruglia! And Pizzoza!
by Dan Winkler on Jul 22, 2010 3:18 PM MDT up reply actions
Over the course of 3 seasons he’s been pretty bad. Last season saved him from the “fucking brutal” category, and that was mostly due to a pretty good 2/3 of a season.
We could have easily swapped out Karlis Skrastins and not skipped a beat, at least his first 2 seasons here. He has been a big disappointment, and only some of the other bigger disappointments (Clark, Salei, Liles, Tucker) have somewhat obscured how absolutely disappointing he’s been.
He has a great agent, and it’s not his fault that the Avs’ talent evaluators, whoever they were, paid way too much for a slow, poor-passing, physically weak and in-no-way-threatening defenseman. I’m sure he squealed in delight when his agent read him the rate and term of his contract.
You'll see all your favorite soccer stars. Like Adiaga! Adiaga two! Badiaga! Aruglia! And Pizzoza!
by Dan Winkler on Jul 22, 2010 3:18 PM MDT up reply actions
short answer
hell yes
Assistant *to* the Managing Editor, Mile High Hockey
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jul 22, 2010 8:50 AM MDT reply actions
The idea is to play the young players to see who can actually play. Rather then bringing in a veteran player, they are going with kids. Could the team regress? Very possible, but they want to see which of the youngsters can perform.
I think you’ll see the defense get younger over the next 1-2 years. So rather then bring in guys like Sutton or signing a Hamhuis to a four-year contract, they are going to give those opportunities to their defensive prospects as positions become available.
The team doesn’t have to be at the cap floor today. There is still more then two months before the season will begin.
I agree that they should lower ticket prices if they are going with a lower payroll. I don’t mind the new direction after they have been burned by free agency in the past. Yet, they should give something back to the fans.
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by Angélique C. Murray on Jul 22, 2010 9:02 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
I can see what they are doing Jori, it’s pretty obvious. However, going in to last year’s camp the brass was convinced that Stoa was going to be a big factor and that never did happen. They’ve had those same thoughts about Hensick, Wolski and the Resurrection of Svatos. So, while I’ve got no issue with testing the waters on these young defensemen I will be utterly convinced that the team is playing on the cheap, rather than in “rebuild” if (not if, but when) some of the young guys don’t pan out the way they hope while they do nothing at the trade deadline.
I can see why people think they are being cheap, but I do think the fact that the current CBA ends in two-years is also giving them pause. They remember how badly they were burned last time.
They came out of that CBA having to let fan favorites go and not having the adequate young talent to step in. I think they are going in better prepared, though it means not spending a boatload of money the next two years. I think they are okay with that.
Colorado Avalanche Prospects: For daily news on the future of the Colorado Avalanche!
by Angélique C. Murray on Jul 22, 2010 10:06 AM MDT up reply actions
Really, I didn’t really get the feeling they were expecting Stoa to step right in last year. It seemed that there was too much competition up front anyway. I think this will be a year for him to step up though. Even if he doesn’t though, I don’t think it’s a loss yet, he’ll just need more time in the minors. Either way, I think there’s a spot for him to lose.
I talked to several people in the media and with the Avs at rookie camp and believe me, they were extremely high on Stoa. He was regarded as being more ready than any of the other guys coming up, more so than even Duchene. After they hit the ice for a few practices, a lot of that opinion changed.
It’s the footspeed. If he improves that he’s a 2nd liner and prospective first liner. Hard to fix though.
Oh, I have great hope for Stoa believe me. I’m just saying the Avalanche brass were almost counting on him to make the team. As it happened, O’Reilly saved their bacon.
I’m not too concerned about Stoa. He had a pretty decent rookie year with LEM. He just needs to continue to work hard and get good enough for the NHL. I think you would agree that not making it to the NHL in his first pro season is not a reason for concern. O’Reilly just surprised everyone and stole Stoa’s spot. No big deal though because Stoa got some much needed experience in the minors.
I think you would agree that not making it to the NHL in his first pro season is not a reason for concern.
My reason for concern is that he looks slow as fuck. That’s a problem, and it concerns me.
You'll see all your favorite soccer stars. Like Adiaga! Adiaga two! Badiaga! Aruglia! And Pizzoza!
by Dan Winkler on Jul 22, 2010 3:27 PM MDT up reply actions
I’m hopeful but the AHL is filled with high draft picks who only had ot work on their skating.
Are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jul 22, 2010 2:40 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree, and Stoa isn’t exactly oozing talent either. hence why I’m not a huge Stoa fan. He’s got potential, but I fear it won’t be realized.
I think later this year when we’re all talking trades he will be the first prospect name thrown out there.
Are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jul 22, 2010 2:48 PM MDT up reply actions
Stoa has fantastic hands. Supple, gentle, yet manly……
Seriously, for a power forward his eye/hand coordination is above average. He made plays during rookie/training camp that were pretty nifty. I have hope he’s a Holmstrom Andreychuk kind of player. He may not be able to do a lot of damage on the rush but he could dig pucks out of corners and be good in front of the net.
deader had soft, supple hands too?
Are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jul 22, 2010 3:21 PM MDT up reply actions
What kind of lotion is he using? :-)
Colorado Avalanche Prospects: For daily news on the future of the Colorado Avalanche!
by Angélique C. Murray on Jul 22, 2010 4:35 PM MDT up reply actions
Great comparison
Of course he won’t score 600 goals like Andreychuk did, but that was one lumbering mfer who managed to score a bunch. Stoa’s got the “lumbering” part down.
How about hoping he becomes an Andrew Brunette type player? If he was meaner I could see him as a long term project like David Clarkson has been for the Devils. Maybe Yip can become the Clarkson type – a home-grown hard-ass who is given time to improve?
You'll see all your favorite soccer stars. Like Adiaga! Adiaga two! Badiaga! Aruglia! And Pizzoza!
by Dan Winkler on Jul 22, 2010 3:30 PM MDT up reply actions
I like that Yip only knows one direction. Straight to the net.
Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.
how weird that you’ve become the voice of rainbows & unicorns here
Assistant *to* the Managing Editor, Mile High Hockey
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jul 22, 2010 9:36 AM MDT up reply actions
It’s more of an acceptance and being okay with it, but also admitting that this change comes with its own problems. It’s a risky path, but I they are also keeping in mind the pending end of the current CBA. They don’t want to be burned like they were in the past.
This could blow up in their face, but they also needed to try something different. I don’t think this means they’ll stop spending forever, but until they have a better idea of what the new CBA will be, I think they will “play it safe” for the time being.
Colorado Avalanche Prospects: For daily news on the future of the Colorado Avalanche!
by Angélique C. Murray on Jul 22, 2010 10:02 AM MDT up reply actions
so here’s my question. do you think the Avs will be better next year as they stand right now?
Assistant *to* the Managing Editor, Mile High Hockey
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jul 22, 2010 10:07 AM MDT up reply actions
As of right now, they are on par with what they had next season. They are banking on these young players developing and continuing to progress. On the the other hand, some of the youngsters could regress.
The Avs are looking at this as a way to find out who can play and who they can build this team around. Unfortunately, that takes time.
I fully acknowledge that this team could take some steps back and miss the playoffs next year. We can all make statements as to who we feel will be good or not, but until they have the opportunity to play, we wont know.
Colorado Avalanche Prospects: For daily news on the future of the Colorado Avalanche!
by Angélique C. Murray on Jul 22, 2010 10:18 AM MDT up reply actions
It’s more of an acceptance and being okay with it, but also admitting that this change comes with its own problems
I’m glad one of our most optimistic posters talks about the team as if she had finally accepted having cancer
Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 22, 2010 10:16 AM MDT up reply actions
Not sure whether to laugh or shake my head.
Colorado Avalanche Prospects: For daily news on the future of the Colorado Avalanche!
by Angélique C. Murray on Jul 22, 2010 10:22 AM MDT up reply actions
I’m doing both
Assistant *to* the Managing Editor, Mile High Hockey
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jul 22, 2010 10:52 AM MDT up reply actions
I always do that when it comes to Jibbles
Dear Colorado Avalanche: Thank you for the excitement, see you in October.
I understand not bringing in any defense. It’s obvious they want to throw some rookie d-men into the fire when the veterans are hurt or fail to perform.
But the forward situation is almost criminal. Sure, we have great “potential” in the lineup, but there is jack squat for depth. Stoa? Macias? Dupuis? This is the best we can do for injury callups? A solid two-way veteran FA makes so much sense here. John Madden for $2.5M would be a great influence on some of these kids. Scott Nichol is a faceoff wiz. Raffi Torres is serviceable. Even Bill Guerin is a winner and great locker room guy who would be a great example for these kids.
It’s obvious we don’t want to spend money on long-term deals for FAs, but at least sign some depth guys so the Avs can justify that NHL membership.
"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny
as the summer wears on maybe one of those forwards for cheaper (I keep using that word describing the avs strategy, odd). I’ll be worried in sept if the avs haven’t signed anyone
Are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jul 22, 2010 9:58 AM MDT up reply actions
totally agree that you can make an argument not to sign any defensemen. But yeah, the forward thing is craaaaaazy
Assistant *to* the Managing Editor, Mile High Hockey
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jul 22, 2010 10:06 AM MDT up reply actions
It’s possible they may do that. Right now their focus should be on signing Mueller and Stewart, but they may be forced to sign or trade for someone to get up to the cap floor.
Colorado Avalanche Prospects: For daily news on the future of the Colorado Avalanche!
by Angélique C. Murray on Jul 22, 2010 10:24 AM MDT up reply actions
Devil's advocate
OK, here’s your potential list of next year’s Brandon Yip or “dark horses” that could jump up and contribute as a forward and I’m not including Macias and Dupuis because those cars have been test-driven pretty well and they aren’t going to do top six time…
Kevin Porter
Ryan Stoa
Mark Olver
Zach Cohen
David Van Der Gulik
It’s too bad Brad Malone didn’t come out, he would have been interesting.
And one of those guys can turn out to be a hidden gem like Hejduk. We’ll never know until we throw them out there for a long period of time. There are so many players in the NHL that didn’t impress much in the lower ranks but turned out to be really good in the NHL. We need to figure out if we have one.
I'd say it's probably Van Der Gulik
His name has by far the most “hidden gem” flare to it.
But he has the unfortunate anagrams of “Kinda Vulgar Dived” and “Dreading Vulva Kid”
"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny
by Dixomatic on Jul 22, 2010 4:23 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
This would only make sense
If the team showed no weakness or potential weaknesses last season. I think, in sometimes getting outshot a bajillion to one, they showed plenty of potential weaknesses, including ones that won’t be addressed by any of the younger guys coming up. They don’t have any physical, defensive defensemen in their system. They don’t have any top flight goal scoring left wingers. By failing to address these weaknesses, they are only risking stunting the growth of the young guns.
Your 2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Reaching Up to the Cap Floor
by Bob in Boulder on Jul 22, 2010 10:05 AM MDT up reply actions
That’s where I disagree, a guy like Cameron Gaunce can bring a physical game and is very solid defensively.
I agree somewhat that they lack scoring wingers, but outside of Kovalchuk, the free agent class was pretty weak. I think they would rather give a guy like Stoa another opportunity.
I’m trying to look outside the box. They can always use some depth in their defensive system to address other issues via trade should no one emerge.
Colorado Avalanche Prospects: For daily news on the future of the Colorado Avalanche!
by Angélique C. Murray on Jul 22, 2010 10:13 AM MDT up reply actions
I don’t see how anyone could think we have gotten better so far during this offseason.
Addition by subtraction isn’t going to help with depth and much of the upcoming talent is unproven. We’ve had great luck with prospects the past few years, but how could anyone think that trend will continue? Maybe we have the best scouts in the world, but they still can’t be right all of the time.
Also, I could care less about ticket prices, I want a playoff team!
this team minus tucker, clark and salei has to be better. I wouldn’t be surprised if the team goes out and signs a veteran forward and defenseman on the cheap later this summer. Better for the player to be paid less and be in the NHL then the AHL.
Are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jul 22, 2010 9:55 AM MDT up reply actions
We are a playoff team.
I think we are a better team for one distinct reason. All these rookies now have a year of experience, and more importantly a round of playoff experience, under their belts. Especially Duchene and O’Reilly will likely be more consistent. The anticipation, the fear, the excitement, the uncontrolled excitement of professional hockey is now passed them.
Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.
The newness may be gone from Duchene, but this organization has piled the pressure on this kid.
“Dear Matt Duchene
Thank you for giving your best effort last season as a rookie. Now that you are accustomed to the rigors of the NHL, we fully expect you to be not only the face, heart and soul of this franchise, but also develop into one of the best players in the league. Because we have these expectations, we have decided to not add any similarly talented players to our lineup and instead surround you with young role players who fit in perfectly with our organization thanks solely to the fact that they are already in our system.
We look forward to you carrying this franchise for the next 20 years.
— Greg Sherman"
"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny
Are we?
There are a ton of good teams in the West.
If we say that none of the “cream” of the West will suffer terrible collapses (San Jose, Detroit, Vancouver, Chicago) we have four spots left and have to fight it out with L.A., Aneheim, Nashville, Phoenix, St. Louis, and Dallas. I also believe that Edmonton has a shot to greatly improve this year. That’s seven teams for four spots excluding surprises.
If you can say that we are automatically one of the top four of these seven then you have a ton of faith that I don’t share.
I think Dallas is more or less dead. Edmonton may be improved but I am not convinced their rookies will perform. I agree though, those other teams are indeed good and we will fight for a spot. When we had 95 points and lost the last spot to Calgary. I considered us a “playoff” team without making the playoffs.
By calling the Avalanche, or any team, a playoff team during the summer, I am saying that team has the talent to make the playoffs. Clearly injuries, plagues, Acts of God, can occur and ruin those chances. On a given year in the West, I see 9-10 playoff teams. Of those 9-10 teams, the bottom 6 don’t NEED to have someone save them. They need to play near their skill potential.
Take Columbus two years ago. Prior to the season, they were not a playoff team. Mason made them one.
Last year, prior to the season, we were not a playoff team. Our rookies, Andy, and Sacco made us one. We had an entire team “over-achieve” and make a playoff team. Now that team is intact and need to play to, or near to, their potential and we will be in the mix.
Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.
They may or may not be a playoff team but the Avs are planning to rebuild. That can take years.
If they miss the playoffs the next year so be it. I’d rather they miss now than suffer a couple years down the line due to overpaying some mediocre UFA’s just to immediately improve.
The pain will be getting middle round draft picks for year after year because the UFAs make us good enough to miss out on the lottery, but not good enough to contend.
It seems like the post-lockout NHL will be ruled by yo-yo teams that fall low and then rise high. UFAs and deadline pickups are used to close the deal when the core team is ready to contend. I really think the era of the dynasty is over unless this next round of CBA negotiations creates a soft-cap luxury tax model. Then we’ll end up with at least one high dollar team in the Finals every year. Small market teams and those with cheapskate ownership will be farming talent for the big boys.
Running-dog lackey counter-revolutionary malcontent, Not an expert.
by Busted Twigg on Jul 22, 2010 12:21 PM MDT up reply actions
My point is you don’t need UFAs to carry your team, but your team will never win if you don’t sign any. They don’t have to be big names or highly paid, they just need to be a player that is going to make your team better. I’m not saying they have to be on the team for very long or be part of your core. I’m saying you need them to support your core.
I understand those points and agree.
I think however, we can both share the sentiment that the act of “over-achieving” cannot be maintained. If we don’t get our team some help we will waste their talent.
Maybe we already have that help in our farm system. Maybe not.
Did the team “over-achieve”? In the view of all the “experts” they did, but do we really know what they are capable of? Did they “over-achieve” or did they play exactly how they are capable of playing? We may find out this season…
Still I think the Avs still need to sign a LW or two just to add some depth in case they have a repeat of the injury bug we’ve seen the past few seasons.
MHH: The Burgundy Army is on the March!
I'm The Canary - but I'm not cute nor cuddly, and I don't sing.
by Americanario on Jul 22, 2010 12:23 PM MDT up reply actions
I think the post holiday slide helps answer that question a bit.
I’m as hopeful as anyone that we can create magic from within. I obviously don’t have my own hockey team to run so I can’t necessarily second guess PL or Sherman.
I’m just saying that there is no reason to believe that we should be better because we clipped (some of) the mediocrity from our roster without replacing it.
I think chicago will take a huge step back, fyi. Also there will be no olympic break which killed them last year.
Are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jul 22, 2010 2:29 PM MDT up reply actions
Fixed
ditto. the team has been freaking gutted of depth a majority of the assets that make a good team into a Stanley Cup winning team.
Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.
Eh
Byfuglien and Versteeg are Severely overrated. Give me Ladd/Seabrook/Sharp/Kane/Keith/Toews or give me death.
I agree with this. Bot Byfuglein and Versteeg are pretty easily replaceable.
Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 22, 2010 3:11 PM MDT up reply actions
unless your’re in cap hell and have no money to pay anyone to play for you because your old GM doesn’t know how to use a fax machine, thought Campbell was the bestest defenseman ever and somehow thought Huet was awesome. about 99% of even casual fans thought Campbell and Huet were horrible contracts.
Are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jul 22, 2010 3:25 PM MDT up reply actions
Given Bowman’s recent comments that “”http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=534673" target="new">Sharp isn’t going anywhere", it wouldn’t surprise me in the least to see both of those contracts buried in the AHL next year.
Colorado Avalanche Offseason Strategy - Please wake us in October
they got underrated Marty Reasoner (a Madden replacement) back, and a couple draft picks. Not sure about their rookies or whatnot, but I think the Hawks will eb fine.
The Hawks were, without a doubt, the #1 team in the NHL this season. They lost quite a bit, but they’ll still be a top-4 team in the West, and a contender.
Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 22, 2010 4:02 PM MDT up reply actions
The Hawks have maintained what I think are all their key players. Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Bolland, Hjamlararararsalmon, Keith, Seabrook.
Most of the guys they lost are secondary players who can be replaced in a season or two. I doubt Chicago repeats but within 3 years they’ll be back again.
The Hawks have maintained what I think are all their key players. Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Bolland, Hjamlararararsalmon, Keith, Seabrook.
Most of the guys they lost are secondary players who can be replaced in a season or two. I doubt Chicago repeats but within 3 years they’ll be back again.
Today’s blog brought to you by the #3.
MHH: The Burgundy Army is on the March!
I'm The Canary - but I'm not cute nor cuddly, and I don't sing.
by Americanario on Jul 22, 2010 7:27 PM MDT up reply actions
That Hawks
may have kept those key players, but they can’t afford their goalie now.
Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.
The Hawks will be better than the Avs next year. And the year after that. And the year after that. My crystal ball only works 3 years ahead, max, so I’m not sure what happens in 4 years.
You'll see all your favorite soccer stars. Like Adiaga! Adiaga two! Badiaga! Aruglia! And Pizzoza!
by Dan Winkler on Jul 22, 2010 5:06 PM MDT up reply actions
Glad
I know alot of people are quick to label Kroenke cheap, but this team has been right against the cap almost every season. Hell, last summer (before the Smyth trade), the consensus was that Colorado is a garbage team unable to do anything due to being pressed against the cap ceiling. One year later it’s the exact opposite, on both accounts.
This wasn’t a summer for Colorado to spend money. The talent available is frankly garbage. Guys like Andy Sutton have no place on a young, fast roster, especially when one of the defenses biggest problems is moving the puck out of the zone. Hamhuis, Martin, Volchenkov…none of them were worth their salary nor term. Six years for Hamhuis? Did Vancouver watch him play last year? Obviously not.
So should we...
Just let the opposition forwards continue to brutalize our goaltender and build tents in the crease just because our young fast team lacks the size to be able to prevent it?
There’s no one to pick up for a reasonable price. I think management would rather send mid round picks to over the cap teams for proven, appropriately paid defensemen instead of lock themselves in again for $4 M/4 year contracts.
I guess I’m saying I’ll start worrying when teams start beating up the Avs during the season and we don’t do anything about it. But it’s the offseason, so I’m good. Bored but good.
But how do you coach, Cumiskey for example, to clear the crease of say, Thornton, Heatley, Clowe, Smyth, those kind of guys?
Does the issue lie more with the fact that Roadrunner gives up 3-6 inches and 30-60 lbs. on some of those guys or with the fact that he just hasn’t been well coached heretofore?
Colorado Avalanche Offseason Strategy - Please wake us in October
Heretofore
There’s ways, but with veteran guys like that, even big guys short of Pronger have trouble clearing them because they can predict with their leverage so well. Plus, I wouldn’t have Cumiskey play against any of those guys. He’s a good 2nd line match up where the forwards are a little smaller and he can provide more offensive support. What I did see, during the year, wasn’t necessarily small guys trying to clear the front, but it was guys being in front that really didn’t try to do anything at all.
I don’t think you’ll ever stop guys from getting into the crease. It’s like stopping guys from shooting. Even if you have some monster defensemen knock down a forward or two, you might take a penalty for it. I prefer speed and skill over size and toughness. Though, it’s great to have a couple guys that are a mix of both (Stewart). If it’s size you want though, we have a couple youngsters coming that fit the bill.
My mancrush on McIlrath notwithstanding,
I’m not just looking for an ogre to crash about in the crease / low slot, but that is something that this team sorely lacks.
I am, however, curious to know to which of the youngsters coming up you are referring? The only one that I can think of is Cohen, who is pretty decently sized (6’2 200lb), but he’s by no means big in today’s league.
Colorado Avalanche Offseason Strategy - Please wake us in October
I will never call him ‘Joey’, I never said ‘Joey Sakic’
Are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jul 22, 2010 3:25 PM MDT up reply actions
Cohen is only 2" shorter than 6’4" which is pretty big. I think the difference is marginal. Gaunce, Chouinard and Elliot are all 6’1". Sure, they all need to fill in their frames but I don’t see why they can’t. I don’t think you need to be Chara’s size to knock some guys around. I’ve seen Fluery do it and he was 5’6".
Or should we....
Spend a few dollars on a plus size defenseman (a few of which are left) that has some of the tools we lack?
No, we should...
Be patient. If the right player is available through trade, then do it. If not, leave it be.
Colorado has six defensemen who saw significant time with the Avalanche last season, and four good prospects (Cohen, Shattenkirk, Holos, Gaunce) signed to ELC’s. It isn’t time to sign gap stops, especially when those gap stops are over the hill injury prone players.
Dude,
If we are that bad this year my heart may explode.
You can’t dangle a season like last year, with all of that potential, in front of the fans and then go back to ultra-suck. I don’t give a rats ass about rebuilding. We can be competitive and there’s no reason we shouldn’t take advantage of all the means we possess to do so!
by booclatos on Jul 22, 2010 2:39 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
It’d be like dating my ex all over again.
by hedge_duck on Jul 22, 2010 2:48 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
You’ve been on the site for awhile, July 24th at the latest ;)
Are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jul 22, 2010 2:50 PM MDT up reply actions
Alright, fuck it!
We should purposely suck for the appropriate amount of time so that we are “rebuilt”.
Then what?
I feel like the subject bold line
can really enhance my internet comic timing.
Well, after the youngsters show that they have what it takes and we are obviously missing a couple key player/positions, we shift gears and start trading and signing to fill the gaps.
Yeah but some teams just have horrible management. I know a lot of fans will disagree with me here but I think the Avs have some of the best managers in the league, and I’m very confident that they’ll get it done. It’s one of the major reasons why I’m a fan of the Avs. If management sucked, it would be much harder for me to follow the team.
Sarcasm aside...
I feel that we could be near the “youngsters show they have what it takes” point and be able to move on to phase two.
They won’t be a lottery team next year (barring the lack of wide spread injuries). Colorado’s forward depth is unreal, and Anderson is coming off of a top-5 season in net. The defense stinks, yes, but at least there’s some potential for improvement because it’s also a very young defense, and help is on the way in the form of prospects.
Say what now?
Our forward depth is unreal? Hmm…that’s a pretty big 180 degree difference than the consensus (which isn’t always right, but in this case certainly is). We’re the team that’s talking about putting Kevin Porter out there on our 4th line pretty much every night, right? Our forward depth absolutely sucks.
You'll see all your favorite soccer stars. Like Adiaga! Adiaga two! Badiaga! Aruglia! And Pizzoza!
by Dan Winkler on Jul 22, 2010 3:54 PM MDT up reply actions
Porter
I actually think he’ll be ok on the 4th line.
Where the Avs are are screwed is if they get any kind of injuries at forward.
Gali – Stats – Stewart
Mueller – Duchene – Hejduk
Yip – O’Reilly – Jones
McLeod – Winnick – Porter
Stoa?
Dupuis?
Hishon?
Man, that’s some slim pickings if one guy goes down. If 2 get hurt… crisis.
Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 22, 2010 4:10 PM MDT up reply actions
Just a question...
for a hockey mind that is keener than mine.
Would you really have Gali on the first line and Jones on the third?
errr
I’d rather not have either on the top line. It’s a valid point, but I’m not sure how Jones will do on the left side, and Gali played there for a good p[ortion last season.
It’s probably a coin flip though.
Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 22, 2010 4:27 PM MDT up reply actions
Hishon cant play once they sent him down though.
The nice thing is, I dont see any of those lines being terrible if they stay healthy. If they suffer injuries like two or three years ago the season is sunk. Nothing they can do will change that barring signing 3-4 UFA’s and sending Winnick, Yip, Porter, etc down to LEM.
Injuries will definitely happen. I’m not suggesting we waste money on a guy like Stempniak to increase our depth, but augmenting our rebuild with two-year contracts for stand-up players who can pass on some knowledge like Madden or Guerin can only be positive.
"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny
But then you gotta send guys down, which management doesnt want to do. If Winnick and Porter were in the minors it would help add some depth. They could bring in Yelle and another cheap veteran plugger. Or hell keep Paul happy by bringing in big bro Yan to play on the fourth line.
What about Mercier, Olver, Talbot, Z. Cohen and Carmen? Also, I wouldn’t be too surprised to see one of our D-men move to forward for a trial period (Cumiskey?).
Cumiskey actually played a little bit at forward under Q. It was limited, but he wasn’t exactly spectacular either.
MHH: The Burgundy Army is on the March!
I'm The Canary - but I'm not cute nor cuddly, and I don't sing.
by Americanario on Jul 22, 2010 6:52 PM MDT up reply actions
Yes, our forward depth is unreal. Who gives a fuck is Porter is on the fourth line? Find me some other teams that have a five players as good as Stastny, Duchene, Hejduk, Stewart, and Mueller as their top five forwards, not to mention other guys like Galiardi and O’Reilly.
At least scoring wise, nothing needs to be done there. I don’t know what the hell it is you’re looking at to make you think it “absolutely sucks”.
No one says it sucks, the problem is that one or two injuries and you’ll have guys like McLeod, Yip, or Porter playing on the 1st or 2nd lines. It’ll be like having this guy as our #1 center again…
MHH: The Burgundy Army is on the March!
I'm The Canary - but I'm not cute nor cuddly, and I don't sing.
by Americanario on Jul 22, 2010 6:53 PM MDT up reply actions
Why do you think Porter sucks so bad? He hasn’t had a real chance at the NHL level yet but he was awesome in the NCAA and pretty darn good in the AHL too. I think there’s some potential there, should he get the chance to prove himself.
I like Porter
I think he’ll be a good player. But, again, I don’t think he’s more than a 3rd line forward.
Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 22, 2010 10:43 PM MDT up reply actions
I won’t die happy until a former Wolverine has a great NHL career in Colorado.
by Pinchy The Lobster on Jul 22, 2010 11:35 PM MDT up reply actions
going to Michigan is a good start on not dying happy
Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 22, 2010 11:39 PM MDT up reply actions
I’m stumped. It must be the way you worded it. There is no real comeback for that.
by Pinchy The Lobster on Jul 22, 2010 11:51 PM MDT up reply actions
I’m stumped
Game, set, match, Jibbles. I’m laughing even harder because I have dated a Red Wings fan from Michigan.
MHH- A drinking site with a hockey problem
Detroit Sucks
He still is, you never get rid of that kind of rash.
MHH: The Burgundy Army is on the March!
I'm The Canary - but I'm not cute nor cuddly, and I don't sing.
by Americanario on Jul 23, 2010 11:01 AM MDT up reply actions
I am fairly optimistic person
I mean, I live my life drinking out of burgundy and blue colored scotch glasses, but its not unreal. In my opinion our top 6 forward core is in the top 10.
Further, I do think O’Reilly and Galiardi are the key. In the future they will likely anchor our 3rd line. That’s one hell of a third line if you put YIp on that line, or even Jones. This is assuming some more high powered winger gets brought in within the next few years to go up front.
Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.
I live my life drinking out of burgundy and blue colored scotch glasses
Apropos this point, I have only one finger left in my bottle of Macallan 12 year. I liked this one a lot and like single malt highland generally. Don’t want to drop more than $50 if possible. Recommendations? Thanks in advance.
Colorado Avalanche Offseason Strategy - Please wake us in October
Hmm
Highlands are always tough. If you want to stay away from Speyside (still find Glen Garioch 8 year, went off the market, still findable), try this. Aberfeldy 12.
http://www.klwines.com/detail.asp?sku=1028854
It’s pretty balanced, gets pretty good ratings and its not too expensive. I have seen it around. You can also get Glen Garioch on that site for 30 dollars. hint hint. I bought of case of it last month since its going away.
Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.
Glenmorangie 10. Can’t go wrong. Currently retailing in my neck o the woods for $45. worth every penny.
MHH- A drinking site with a hockey problem
Detroit Sucks
I found it at Keg Liquors in Denver for 35.99 the other day. I have also seen it 20% off the sticker price of 42 fairly often.
Thanks Joe...
Stastny, Duchene, Hejduk, Stewart, and Mueller
West:
San Jose: (Thornton, Heatly, Marleau, Setoguchi, Clowe)
Vancouver: (Sedin, Sedin, Kesler,Burrows, Samuelson)
Chicago: (Toews, Kane, Sharp, Hossa, Bolland)
Detroit: (Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Holmstrom, Filpulla)
Dallas: (Richards, Eriksson, Ribeiro, Neal, Morrow)
Anaheim: Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan, Lupul, Blake)
LA: (Kopitar, Smyth, Simmonds, Brown, Hanzel)
Nashville: (Erat, Legwand, Dumont, Sullivan, Lombardi)
Columbus (Nash, Huselius, Umberger, Brassard, Vermette)
East:
NJ Devils (Kovi, Elias, Parise, Zajak, Langenbrunner)
Boston: (Savard, Horton, Bergeron, Kreiji, Wheeler)
Philly: (Briere, Carter, Richards, Hartnell, Van Riemsdyk)
Pittsburgh: (Malkin, Crosby, Staal, Kunitz, Talbot)
Ottawa: (Spezza, Alfredsson, Kovalev, Michalek, Underwood)
Montreal: (Gomez, Cammeleri, Plekanic, Gionta, Kostitsyn)
Buffalo: (Vanek,Pominville, Connelly, Roy Hecht)
Washington (Ovechkin, Semin, Backstrom, Laich, Knuble)
Tampa: (Stamkos, Lecavalier, Gagne, St. Louis, Malone)
That’s 18 teams with better forwards. I think the closest we come to matching is Dallas, Nashville, and Columbus. Coincidentally 2 of those teams missed the playoffs and the other has Weber and Sutter patrolling the blue line.
Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 22, 2010 10:42 PM MDT up reply actions
This was kind of depressing to look up FYI
Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 22, 2010 11:10 PM MDT up reply actions
You say the Bruins have a better top five than the Avs, yet the Avs finished 6th in league scoring and the Bruins finished 29th. The Avs had four 20 goal scorers and the Bruins had one (that you didn’t mension). The Avs top scorer had 79 points and the Bruins had 52. Names lie, numbers don’t. The team with better numbers will always beat the team with bigger names.
The team with better numbers will always beat the team with bigger names.
That’s what the Capitals said… wait a minute… what the hell happened there? They had like both names and numbers.
by Pinchy The Lobster on Jul 22, 2010 11:47 PM MDT up reply actions
Boston was 7th in shots per game, Avs were 29th. I would bet on Boston’s offense rebounding this season (and BOS was 2nd in goals the season before)
Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 23, 2010 12:14 AM MDT up reply actions
They also were without Savard and Lucic for a lot of the season. Savard is made of that instant chemistry stuff that Stastny has. Any scoring winger on his flank will put up 70 points by just existing.
Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.
Didn't work for this guy
MHH: The Burgundy Army is on the March!
I'm The Canary - but I'm not cute nor cuddly, and I don't sing.
by Americanario on Jul 23, 2010 11:03 AM MDT up reply actions
I know this in incredibly subjective, but
From those teams, and we all watch a lot of hockey, there are the teams I think are better. And I mean better as a complete set to the top 6 in skill and ability.
West: San Jose, Vancouver, Chicago, Detroit.
Look at Anaheim. Getzlaf, Perry and Ryan are great. But Lupul and Blake compared to Muller and Stewart? Sorry, I choose Colorado. LA might be up there and I think we are the closest to them. Columbus? they have Nash. That’s it. Huselius can only score against us it seems.
East: NJ, Boston, Pittsburgh, Montreal, Washington, Tampa, Philly.
Ok fine the Avalanche are 12-13. Regardless, our top 6 is impressive.
I do agree that most of those teams have a star that is flashier than Stastny. Eventually Duchene will do that. Most of those teams have an aging star, as we do with Hejduk.
If all those teams remain healthy and ours do too our top 6 output will be comparable with Tampa/Montreal/LA.
Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.
Mueller
Mueller had 124 games of awfulness before 15 really good games, and then a concussion. I think we’re counting our eggs before they’ve hatched a little with him.
Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 23, 2010 9:38 AM MDT up reply actions
Same. I suspect thats one of the reasons that he hasn’t been signed yet… He’s so hard to place. If you pay him for his 20-odd points in 15 games, hes worth a ton. If you pay for his concussions, hes worth significantly less. If you pay for his down time in Phoenix [coupled with the concussions], he may even have a negative value. Once Stewie signs we can use his contract to gauge our good buddy Ferris, but I’m not holding my breath.
Thanks Joe...
just in the west
Disagree on Dallas, Columbus, Anaheim and Nashville. The Avs are at least equal to those top 5s, if not better. Especially Nashville.
I think we’re better than Dalla, Columbus, and Nasville up front. Anahiem can turn it on when they want. Perry, Getzlaf and Ryan when playing at the top of their game can beat just about any other line out there.
by MalachiConstant on Jul 23, 2010 9:36 AM MDT up reply actions
but the other 2 players (Lupul/Blake) suck. The Avs probably won’t have that killer top line like the Anaheims of the world, but they’re going to beat you with 2 solid top lines like Forsberg/Sakic back in the day.
Anaheim may have better players (right now, at least) and a better line, but I’ll take the “pick your poison” approach to offensive attacks every time.
Fair enough
which makes having an amazing 3rd line all the better.
by MalachiConstant on Jul 23, 2010 11:18 AM MDT up reply actions
but I’ll take the "pick your poison" approach to offensive attacks every time.
esp if you have a forsberg and a sakic, and not just “two solid lines” Those two went well beyond “solid”. Right now we don’t have a Sakic and Forsberg, but I’m hopeful Statsny and Duchene come close.
MHH- A drinking site with a hockey problem
Detroit Sucks
Blake has had a couple decent seasons. I don’t think it’s safe to say he sucks too bad.
Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 23, 2010 12:42 PM MDT up reply actions
Coincidentally
Anaheim, Dallas and Columbus all missed the playoffs lasts eason.
Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 23, 2010 9:37 AM MDT up reply actions
The quality of power forwards in the West seems to dictate that having a big defenseman is close to a necessity.
Though I could certainly be wrong.
Now this i agree with entirely. We do need one. However, the choices this year, Volchenkov, The Expert, aren’t exactly Pronger or Chara or even someone like Douglas Murray. We’ll have to get one at some point since we appear to be lacking a prospect. That is an addition you can make after the team has developed a bit ala Blake coming in 2001.
We can make do with Quincey and Wilson (who could become that guy) right now. If we are a playoff team come March and that big defenseman gap is apparent, I bet we trade for one.
Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.
I love the thought of us being a playoff team come March and having all of that cap room. I just hope we can get into that position.
Sometimes I need to look back and remember how good we could have been last year if it weren’t for some injuries. If healthy we are pretty talented top to bottom, we are just thin.
Does anyone disagree that we are two or three injuries away from getting one of the top three picks again next year?
the same could be said for a lot of the teams the avs are competing against, they are definate in the 4 to 9 or 10 mix playoff seating wise. Just cause they haven’t done anything mid july I won’t panic until at least mid-august.
Are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jul 22, 2010 2:33 PM MDT up reply actions
Perhaps you have seen more of him than I have, but I thought he looked rather dominant in the series against us. i was drunk for most of it so who knows.
Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.
if it came down to trading for Murray or paying A. Sutton for 2 years I’d do the latter.
Are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jul 22, 2010 2:43 PM MDT up reply actions
I’m with Hedge Duck. well, maybe not worst in the league, but he had some real issues. He was a (negative) factor in many of the Avs goals in the playoffs.
Assistant *to* the Managing Editor, Mile High Hockey
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jul 22, 2010 2:48 PM MDT up reply actions
That’s what I saw. He can clear the front/back of the net, but I saw that, as the series went on, he got caught a lot along the boards by more cerebral players like Galiardi and Yip
so you’re saying tucker never took advantage of him?
Are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jul 22, 2010 2:51 PM MDT up reply actions
Heh
His veteran presence completely took advantage of Douglas Murray.
Sure
He’d work with Cumiskey for a while. Cumiskey’s got the speed to play basically a radial defenseman. While Murray’s at the net, Cumiskey could basically cover the boards.
Agree
SJ fans like him because he delivers big hits, but when he’s in any kind of space he’s just a disaster.
Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 22, 2010 3:15 PM MDT up reply actions
my ears are burning….
Are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jul 22, 2010 3:26 PM MDT up reply actions
However, the choices this year, Volchenkov, The Expert, aren’t exactly Pronger or Chara or even someone like Douglas Murray
But there are only 4-5 of those kinds of players in the league. You can’t wait for the perfect guy all the time, because you’ll never find them. That doesn’t mean you should give up entirely on 2nd rate options.
And I think you’re underrating Volchenkov slightly.
Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 22, 2010 3:14 PM MDT up reply actions
That's fair
I agree there are only a handful like Pronger. I don’t think Volchenkov or Hamuis is the worth the 4.5 million. Not from what I have seen, which is cursory in regard to Volchenkov, there are better players. At the trade deadline, and this is a claim I have no time to back up, there will be players available that are more worth the money.
My dream is that Nashville starts really sucking and lets us trade for Suter.
Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.
Volchenkov yes… Hamhuis no.
Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 22, 2010 3:20 PM MDT up reply actions
And
Volchenkov has never played out West. Who knows if he could.
Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.
The forwards in the east are every bit as good as those in the west. The west is better because we have defense. I’m pretty sure Volchenkov proved he could play anywhere.
Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 22, 2010 4:11 PM MDT up reply actions
I went to a lot of Bruins games. I am forced to watch a lot of East Coast hockey. The forwards may be as good, but those first and second lines do not hit as much. They do not have the same sort of shift after shift of physical play.
With that said, there are players and teams who are physical, but I think as a whole Western D-men have to deal with a lot of physically.
Volchenkov may be able to play out here, but I look at Pronger as an example. He was really good on St. Louis, pretty good on Edmonton, really good on Anaheim. He goes to the Eastern Conference and he is maybe the 2nd or most dominant defenseman.
Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.
If we are a playoff team come March and that big defenseman gap is apparent, I bet we trade for one.
See, I used to share this sort of faith, but then we sat around last year at the trade deadline and couldn’t manage to move numerous players, the likes of which in past years have, at the very least, yielded a late round pick/prospect.
Colorado Avalanche Offseason Strategy - Please wake us in October
What a second
We traded for Mueller and Porter at the deadline last year don’t you remember!!!
Let the new season begin already!!!
I do remember, but I also remember failing to move any and all of the following, none of whom contributed in any way (positively, that is) in the playoff race or playoffs:
Tucker
Clark
Salei
Svatos
Betcha big money that virtually any Eastern Conference playoff contender would have given us a 3rd for Clark, shot blocker extraordinaire that he is. Tucker’s veteran leadership (right down to the seat of his pants, from which he conducts said leadership), etc., etc.
Colorado Avalanche Offseason Strategy - Please wake us in October
Marvelous
I always marvel at someone who thinks the GM “failed to make a trade” at the trade deadline. If you have a link to where Sherman had an offer on the table for any of those players and didn’t take it, then maybe “failed to make a trade” applies. Otherwise it takes two GMs to tango in a trade and subjective opinions will run the gamit. All are UFAs and so far only Clark has signed a contract. That tells you something about there lack of marketability and thus why quite possibly no GMs wanted them. Tucker’s veteran leadership? ROFLMAO!
Tucker’s veteran leadership? ROFLMAO!
Turn up your meter.
That being said, at the deadline, there are always options for sellers, provided that they’re willing to sell at market. Hell, guys get traded for conditional picks all the time. One would think that if nothing else, the accountant in Sherman would have looked for the cap / salary relief that dumping a guy who hadn’t contributed for a late round pick (conditional, even) would have been more attractive than healthy scratching most of them for the balance of the season.
Dwight made a good trade w/ PHX, but let’s be honest, that trade was as much or more motivated by salary/RFA/arbitration considerations as it was by shrewdness on Dwight’s part. The teams traded players that had, in the estimations of their respective teams, failed to live up to their potential. It seems (knock on wood) to be working out for both sides. Happy circumstance.
Colorado Avalanche Offseason Strategy - Please wake us in October
Considering that only Clark has signed a NHL contract this summer would indicate that these players had little value at the trade deadline.
Colorado Avalanche Prospects: For daily news on the future of the Colorado Avalanche!
by Angélique C. Murray on Jul 22, 2010 4:46 PM MDT up reply actions
Damn….should really read other posts before contributing :-)
Colorado Avalanche Prospects: For daily news on the future of the Colorado Avalanche!
by Angélique C. Murray on Jul 22, 2010 4:47 PM MDT up reply actions
Sorry Hopf but failing to move Clark, Salei, Svatos, is not a discredit to GS but a discredit to them just sucking up a storm. Also, I still think the entire Avs’ staff was unsure what to do with the team being in the playoff picture.
Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.
Agree
although I think Clark could have been moved. He would have been valuable to a couple Eastern conference teams.
That said, I bet Sherms tried to move some of those guys, but the market wasn’t there.
Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 22, 2010 3:17 PM MDT up reply actions
only one of those guys has a job now, it’s not like people were clamering for them.
Are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jul 22, 2010 2:34 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I know we're all pissed the avs haven't signed anyone.
Barring injuries the avs look pretty decent on the depth charts:
http://tsf.waymoresports.thestar.com/thestar/hockey/depthchart.cgi?Col
And yes, Injuries to the top 6 will hurt somwhat, but what team wouldn’t that apply to?
I’m not totally opposed to using Winnik, Porter, Stoa etc. to replace Tucker and Svatos, it’s actually an upgrade.
And as it stands now, I would think they want a rookie to be the 7th defensman. Not ideal, I’d sign a warm body to do that and let the young guy devlop at LE.
If the avs did nothing for the rest of the summer it’s not the end of the world.
Are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jul 22, 2010 3:35 PM MDT reply actions
The hope can certainly exist:
Mueller may come back to be a 30 goal scorer.
Stewart may continue to develop into one of the most feared forwards in the league.
Hejduk may stay healthy.
Duchene may vanquish his nemesis, the post.
All sophomores may show improvement.
Yip may maintain that shooting percentage.
Holos may slide right in as solid defenseman.
Sacco may figure out how to keep it rolling for three periods.
Liles may shine in a contract year, and Shattenkirk may play so well that we are able to move Liles at the deadline for future toys.
Wilson may regain his hammer-like style of play.
Stoa may turn that corner to becoming an NHL forward.
Anderson may actually be better than he was last season.
Galiardi’s offensive skill may improve to match his will.
McCleod may refine his game to a more 2008 level.
Some of these will happen. But if they all happen, then Sherman looks like a genius and we’ll have a much more compliant tone during next year’s offseason. Don’t mind me if I ponder the negatives for a couple more months, though.
"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny
If all those happen we are competing for the cup next season. Plus I would include if Jones can stay healthy for 70+ games.
by pikeyrubbish on Jul 22, 2010 7:54 PM MDT up reply actions
A couple thoughts:
How many teams don’t have just as many “may happen” questions as the Avs do? I think it’s par for the course in a capped league; to win in any given year you need a hell of a lot of things to go right.
On that note, I think some of us are forgetting the type of player Gali was touted to be coming into the league. Here’s a quote from his college coach (taken from HF, whose talent analysis of T.J. also is worth a read):
“T.J. broke into the college ranks and developed very quickly. T.J. has got an offensive flare. The offensive side of the game appears to come very naturally to him as far as the understanding and hockey intellect side of it. When his body (development) catches up, T.J. is going to be even more dominant and really something special.”
Just because he spent his rookie year playing a checking, high-energy game doesn’t mean that offensive skill has disappeared. I think that he thought his best chance to make and stay with the big club was to learn how to use his extra size (the 20 pounds of muscle he put on last summer, which isn’t a quick adjustment to make) and concentrate on the defensive end of the game rather than worry about offense. Now that he’s (relatively well) established as an NHL player, I think that he’ll work to find a balance between his play last year and the offensive end of things. He is still only 22, after all; he has plenty of time to develop.
Also, Liles isn’t in a contract year next year. He has two years left on his deal.
by ExiledAmongYou on Jul 22, 2010 8:03 PM MDT up reply actions
I like dreamin’
Cause dreamin’ can make you mine
I like dreamin’
Closing my eyes and feeling fine
When the lights go down
I’m holding you so tight
Got you in my arms
And it’s paradise ’til the morning light
by Pinchy The Lobster on Jul 22, 2010 11:54 PM MDT up reply actions
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