Mile High Hockey: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
New Blog: Along The Olentangy for Ohio State Fans!

Mueller or Wolski?

It's been a few months since the Avalanche traded Wojtek Wolski to the Coyotes for Peter Mueller and Kevin Porter and I have to admit I'm still fascinated by it. Setting aside Porter for the sake of discussion, Wolski (The Baron) and Mueller (Ferris) have striking similarities in their career. They are both former first-round picks. They both dig the number 8. They both had solid rookie seasons but then saw their production decline in subsequent seasons. They both possess noticeable talent, but have battled inconsistency and have occasionally found themselves in their respective coach's doghouse (and in both cases, we're talking more than one head coach). And, of course, both of them loved the change of scenery, tearing it up with their new teams after the trade that some have said was in the Coyotes' favor.

As of this writing, Wojtek Wolski has played in 320 NHL games to Mueller's 222 (Wolski debuted a season ahead of Mueller). For the sake of comparison, I took their current NHL totals and boiled them down into what they've averaged over 82 games:

Goals Assists Points PP Shots/G Shoot%
Wolski 20 34 54 4 2.2 11.4%
Mueller 18 29 47 6 2.1 10.4%

 

I have to admit, those numbers are a lot closer than I expected them to be. Wolski does have an advantage almost across the board, but the difference is only 7 points per season. I did say we'd leave Porter out of this, but it's worth pointing out that he's averaged 20 points per 82 games to date in his career, which would technically fill that 7-point gap...albeit not spectacularly.

The question is, how will both perform in the future. Based on historical evidence, neither player will be able to repeat their post-trade pace. Both were playing at a point-per-game pace in after the trade. In their career, though, they'd each managed a point-per-game month just one other time.

I'm no statistical whiz, which may be why I'm a fan of point-per-game as a simple barometer of how a player is performing offensively. Thanks to the tremendous archives at hockey-reference.com, I charted Mueller and Wolski's PPG progression from month to month since they began playing in the NHL and long with their cumulative PPG along the way.

For a guy with such a knock for inconsistency, Wolski has put up remarkably consistent numbers throughout his career. He's hovered between .62 and .72 PPG throughout his entire career (that ranges between a 51-point pace and a 59-point pace). For most of his career, his monthly pace has been pretty much on par with his career pace. It's only been in the last year or so that he's started to fluctuate wildly. Overall, though, that blue line has been pretty steady.

 

Wolskilarge_medium

Mueller has been less consistent with his scoring over his career, and overall his PPG rate has trended down - only reversing after his trade. His career PPG has ranged from .50 (41 points) to .68 (56 points). While we have yet to see this with the Avs, he had some bad months in Phoenix. While Wolski has 4 months of .4 PPG or lower (33 points), Mueller has eight...including one glaring goose egg right before Phoenix gave him his walking papers. And Mueller hasn't had any big months either, other than his epic post-trade month with the Avs.

Mueller_medium

Where am I going with all of this? In a nutshell, Wolski's post-trade surge (18 points in 18 games) isn't much of a statistical anomaly - he's had big months like that before, and the scoring burst didn't cause much of a fluctuation in his overall career numbers. Mueller's jump was much less consistent with his previous trend, meaning future success is by no means guaranteed. In fact, if you had run those numbers from up top at the day of the trade, you would have seen a much bigger scoring gap:

 

Goals Assists Points PP Shots/G Shoot%
Wolski 20 33 52 5 2.2 11.1%
Mueller 15 27 42 5 2.1 9.1%

 

There's that scoring gap I was expecting above. Avalanche fans have fallen in love with Mueller and there's certainly good reason for that. However, before the chickens get counted, Mueller is going to have to prove that that flash he showed before gentleman Rob ended his season wasn't a mini-fluke. Mueller is clearly a talented player. The question is, can he be a consistent 50-point per season player...like the guy he was traded for?

Poll
Who will score more points next year?
Wolski
186 votes
Mueller
319 votes
Porter
39 votes

544 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 140 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Thanks for the post DDC. In your research, did you notice if ice time was comparable between the two players? Or time on the power play? I would be no means advocate counting your chickens quite yet on Mueller, but I would expect his numbers to go up since he’ll likely be on the point for one of the top two lines and the power play (less a young defenseman steps in).

by MalachiConstant on Jul 26, 2010 8:24 AM MDT reply actions  

that stuff is at home, but yes Wolski has about a minute more of ice time per game over their careers

Assistant *to* the Managing Editor, Mile High Hockey

by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jul 26, 2010 8:34 AM MDT up reply actions  

The only real barometer I have is how i feel about each while i watch them. In the short time we watched Ferris I got a sense that he just needs a good center. I got the feeling he was wasted in Phoenix. At center, Wolski had Sakic and SoS in his tenure. Mueller had…..

I think in predicting point totals next year, Wolski will do his average and Mueller will do above his average with either Duchene or SoS. Phoenix also sucked for 2 of Mueller’ years to our one year of sucking.

I think Mueller has more talent but needs a center and needs to be pushed. I think Wolski has shown what he is capable of.

I also hated Wolski’s lack of effort. With a passion.

Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.

by c6hor8 on Jul 26, 2010 8:40 AM MDT reply actions  

I got the feeling he was wasted in Phoenix.

I never saw enough of him in Phoenix to speak on this. I can’t believe he didn’t have opportunities though

Assistant *to* the Managing Editor, Mile High Hockey

by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jul 26, 2010 8:50 AM MDT up reply actions  

We need someone from five for howling to attest to his centers.

Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.

by c6hor8 on Jul 26, 2010 9:11 AM MDT up reply actions  

Phoenix fans felt the same way about Mueller as the majority of Avs fans felt about Wolski when he left FWIW.

I will say that last season Mueller was played on the third and 4th line a lot more when he entered Tippet’s doghouse. He put up really good shooting numbers (SF/60 and SA/60) while there, but was pretty unlucky in the points department for as good as his shooting numbers were. However his Quality of Teammates was high, and his Quality of Competition was very low, so he should have good shots numbers. Add to that that his Offensive zone start was 64% last season, meaning he wasn’t trusted, at all, defensively by Tippet.

All that said, I have no clue on Mueller. His numbers are giant dichotomies. I am eager to see him play an entire season.

Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time

by Jibblescribbits on Jul 26, 2010 9:37 AM MDT up reply actions  

Mueller thinks you’re a giant dich.

If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!

by Mike @ MHH on Jul 26, 2010 9:38 AM MDT up reply actions  

A huge dick.

What's the difference between a duck?

by hedge_duck on Jul 26, 2010 9:42 AM MDT up reply actions  

You sir, are a delight.

If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!

by Mike @ MHH on Jul 26, 2010 9:45 AM MDT up reply actions  

since when did Jibbles become a stats nerd..or maybe I’ve been away from here for longer then I thought

Is it October yet?!

by horbayj on Jul 26, 2010 9:52 AM MDT up reply actions  

I’ve always been a stats nerd.

Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time

by Jibblescribbits on Jul 26, 2010 10:12 AM MDT up reply actions  

Me no like da Wings.

by i2strange97 on Jul 26, 2010 6:13 PM MDT up reply actions  

TimmyHate from FFH here

The strong feeling among Coyotes fans is the Muller didn’t show the motivation and desire we expected in Phoenix – in fact when he was traded there was some rejoycing.

As Featured in Sports Illustrated: http://tinyurl.com/TimmyHate
New Zealand's Number 1 Coyotes Fan - and I have the photos to prove it!
Supporting my Desert Dogs since 1996 from 6000 miles away
!AWOOOOOOOOO! (oh and GO FLAMES GO)

by TimmyHate on Jul 26, 2010 2:10 PM MDT up reply actions  

i’ve heard that, thanks. but who centered him? who was the other winger?

by thedoctor on Jul 26, 2010 2:17 PM MDT up reply actions  

Trying to remember

At work so don’t have a whole lot of resources I can get to, I do know he moved down the depth chart over the season when he just wasn’t putting up the numbers we expected.

I’ve put in a call for those of a more analytical brain than I to come give you guys some more details – I’ll also see what I can dig up.

As Featured in Sports Illustrated: http://tinyurl.com/TimmyHate
New Zealand's Number 1 Coyotes Fan - and I have the photos to prove it!
Supporting my Desert Dogs since 1996 from 6000 miles away
!AWOOOOOOOOO! (oh and GO FLAMES GO)

by TimmyHate on Jul 26, 2010 2:27 PM MDT up reply actions  

thanks Timmy. It sounds a lot like Wolski here, to be honest

Assistant *to* the Managing Editor, Mile High Hockey

by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jul 26, 2010 2:18 PM MDT up reply actions  

The strong feeling among Coyotes fans is the Muller didn’t show the motivation and desire we expected in Phoenix

Maybe it is because you didn’t spell his name correctly?

Your 2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Reaching Up to the Cap Floor

by Bob in Boulder on Jul 26, 2010 2:24 PM MDT up reply actions  

Zing.

Work post :P

As Featured in Sports Illustrated: http://tinyurl.com/TimmyHate
New Zealand's Number 1 Coyotes Fan - and I have the photos to prove it!
Supporting my Desert Dogs since 1996 from 6000 miles away
!AWOOOOOOOOO! (oh and GO FLAMES GO)

by TimmyHate on Jul 26, 2010 2:25 PM MDT up reply actions  

Having seen him play in Phoenix extensively, I can confirm that this is the case. He was definitely wasted in Phoenix. Gretzky was inept as a coach, and they completely wasted Mueller’s time. Tippett came in and obviously changed the team for the better, but Mueller was still in the dog house.

As long as Mueller is healthy, there’s no reason why he wouldn’t blow Wolski’s production out of the water. His ceiling is considerably higher, his work ethic is better, and his abilities are more conducive to a productive NHL career than are Wolski’s.

by DetAvs on Jul 26, 2010 9:41 AM MDT up reply actions  

do you remember who centered him? I’m trying to dig up the shift charts, but as Dario said, it sure as hell wasn’t Sakic and Stastny…

by thedoctor on Jul 26, 2010 9:45 AM MDT up reply actions  

That was my thougt. Wolski has played with Sakic, SoS, Smyth, and Hejduk.

Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.

by c6hor8 on Jul 26, 2010 9:50 AM MDT up reply actions  

and Arnason

Assistant *to* the Managing Editor, Mile High Hockey

by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jul 26, 2010 9:57 AM MDT up reply actions  

I SWORE I wouldn’t cry damnit!

by Dario on Jul 26, 2010 9:58 AM MDT up reply actions  

weirdest thing is that i bet he had the best PPG with Arny.

by thedoctor on Jul 26, 2010 10:01 AM MDT up reply actions  

Did I hear my name?

MHH: The Burgundy Army is on the March!

I'm The Canary - but I'm not cute nor cuddly, and I don't sing.

by Americanario on Jul 26, 2010 11:16 AM MDT up reply actions  

different hair and jersey, same soulless eyes.

Are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.

by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jul 26, 2010 6:41 PM MDT up reply actions  

*shudder*

"All the world's indeed a stage, and we are merely players."

"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.

Quitter's People United Member #18

by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 26, 2010 9:19 PM MDT up reply actions  

From what I can tell, the centers were Lang, Lombardi and Hanzal last year. I’m not sure who was before those guys that could have centered Mueller. But they never put their strength up the middle in Phoenix that’s for sure. Lombardi and Lang are gone, Wolski is moving to center. I don’t know who they will center behind Wolski and Hanzal.

But, by the looks of things Phoenix is going with the number 1 center of Wojtek Wolski.

by Dario on Jul 26, 2010 9:58 AM MDT up reply actions  

tbh, he could really flourish in that role. I’ve always liked Wolski as a center, but he never seemed to really take hold of the position in his chances here.

by thedoctor on Jul 26, 2010 10:02 AM MDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I like him as a center too. But even in the best of times he’s not a number one center. #1 centers in the NHL are pretty special players (or should be because they win Stanley Cups).

by Dario on Jul 26, 2010 10:04 AM MDT up reply actions  

Wolski’s skills are definitely more suited for center, but I don’t think he’s tenacious enough for the job. Duchene skates to the opposite end of the ice and back in the time it takes Wolksi to decide which foot he wants to move first.

by MalachiConstant on Jul 26, 2010 10:04 AM MDT up reply actions  

our current centers are vastly better than Wolski, no doubt.

by thedoctor on Jul 26, 2010 10:09 AM MDT up reply actions  

None of those three are Sakic (obviously) but none are slouches either…

Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time

by Jibblescribbits on Jul 26, 2010 10:11 AM MDT up reply actions  

I would consider them bottom half of the league in terms of top 6 centers. PHX sucks down the middle.

by thedoctor on Jul 26, 2010 10:16 AM MDT up reply actions  

I accept your premise. I reject your conclusion. Statistically speaking, a cummulative sum (carreer ppg) does not describe trends in stochastic signals.

by Tommelot on Jul 26, 2010 8:45 AM MDT reply actions  

I do admit I’m a hack when it comes to numbers.

Assistant *to* the Managing Editor, Mile High Hockey

by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jul 26, 2010 8:52 AM MDT up reply actions  

That’s why he has the monthly up there too. He did about as well as you can do with the numbers available without throwing together a more complicated regression.

by MalachiConstant on Jul 26, 2010 8:55 AM MDT up reply actions  

You guys are all idiots. We all know that cross numbers are all that matters. Where is M+G when you need them.

Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.

by c6hor8 on Jul 26, 2010 9:12 AM MDT up reply actions  

Corsi that is.

Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.

by c6hor8 on Jul 26, 2010 9:12 AM MDT up reply actions  

Wolski is loved by the Corsi-atti. He has outstanding corsi numbers. Then again, Mueller does too, but like I said above, his numbers are kind of suspect for some reasons (QoC, QoT, and Zone Starts).

Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time

by Jibblescribbits on Jul 26, 2010 9:38 AM MDT up reply actions  

FYI

I love the term corsinati.

Are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.

by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jul 26, 2010 6:43 PM MDT up reply actions  

[Porter] would technically fill that 7-point gap

Not when you take “replacement value” into account. Porter would take up a rosterspot from someone else, who then cannot produce his ppg. So Porter would only actually fill that 7-point gap if Porter were replacing a 13 pps player, ceteris paribus.

by Tommelot on Jul 26, 2010 8:49 AM MDT reply actions  

right. that’s kind of what I’m saying there, albeit without all those funky latin words

Assistant *to* the Managing Editor, Mile High Hockey

by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jul 26, 2010 8:51 AM MDT up reply actions  

All things being equal

Colorado Avalanche Offseason Strategy - Please wake us in October

by Hopfenkopf on Jul 26, 2010 11:13 AM MDT up reply actions  

I know this is an Avalanche blog and stuff

but really?
16%Wolski
76%Mueller

Assistant *to* the Managing Editor, Mile High Hockey

by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jul 26, 2010 8:59 AM MDT reply actions  

People were very unhappy with Wolski’s work ethic.

Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.

by c6hor8 on Jul 26, 2010 9:09 AM MDT up reply actions  

This

I voted for Porter out of spite

by MalachiConstant on Jul 26, 2010 9:15 AM MDT up reply actions  

Went with Wolski simply because I lack faith that Mueller will play enough games.

"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny

by Dixomatic on Jul 26, 2010 9:19 AM MDT up reply actions  

no worries there. Rob Blake retired

Assistant *to* the Managing Editor, Mile High Hockey

by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jul 26, 2010 9:27 AM MDT up reply actions  

I voted for the Baron as well. Past performance as well as gut feeling.

If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!

by Mike @ MHH on Jul 26, 2010 9:40 AM MDT up reply actions  

Me too…same reasons.

"Being called an off-the-board pick, I love it. I can’t wait to prove everyone wrong and show that’s where I belong to be drafted." - Joey Hishon

The Colorado Avalanche: every second, every shift, every play

by Beachie on Jul 27, 2010 3:32 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

I fear a less-gentlemanly player may step up and convince Mueller that he is Napoleon.

"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny

by Dixomatic on Jul 26, 2010 10:10 AM MDT up reply actions  

The result would be flipped on a Coyotes blog

We were unhappy with Mullers Work Ethic.

I think the trade worked out both ways…

As Featured in Sports Illustrated: http://tinyurl.com/TimmyHate
New Zealand's Number 1 Coyotes Fan - and I have the photos to prove it!
Supporting my Desert Dogs since 1996 from 6000 miles away
!AWOOOOOOOOO! (oh and GO FLAMES GO)

by TimmyHate on Jul 26, 2010 2:12 PM MDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the feedback!

Who centered for Phoenix prior to Lang and Lombardi?

by Dario on Jul 26, 2010 2:18 PM MDT up reply actions  

I voted for Mueller

consider me a believer in non-contract year Wolski.

by thedoctor on Jul 26, 2010 9:37 AM MDT up reply actions  

I voted Wolski

MHH- A drinking site with a hockey problem

Detroit Sucks

by TheRed on Jul 26, 2010 10:14 AM MDT up reply actions  

My reasoning is as follows:

Historically, they appear to be very close to equal if not equal. With the Baron shifting over to center on the PHX 1st line, I think he takes a lot more defensive battering than does Ferris, who remains on the wing on either the 1st or 2nd line.

Colorado Avalanche Offseason Strategy - Please wake us in October

by Hopfenkopf on Jul 26, 2010 11:14 AM MDT up reply actions  

How Wolski plays with Whitney and Doan will be very interesting. Those are some hard-working players, and I imagine The Baron will struggle to keep up with their work ethic.

"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny

by Dixomatic on Jul 26, 2010 11:18 AM MDT up reply actions  

Thats what I was thinking when I voted for Mueller. Mueller’s job will be to put up points, Wolski’s job will be to play well defensively and put up points. The center is considered a third defenseman, they are almost always the first one back. So Mueller will most likely have more time in the offensive zone than Wolski.

by Greendaygoal on Jul 27, 2010 7:51 PM MDT up reply actions  

Don't look at me, I voted for Porter

Dear Colorado Avalanche: Thank you for the excitement, see you in October.

by Drakenlot on Jul 26, 2010 3:14 PM MDT up reply actions  

you’re not even going to bring up the 8% porter? I like Mueller’s chances, he was on pace to score a 110 or so points (if he’d played on the avs all year and didn’t meet up with the gentleman) and I like his chances of hitting at least 1/2 that, which would be right around wolski’s average.

Are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.

by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jul 26, 2010 6:45 PM MDT up reply actions  

Wasn’t Mueller demoted to the 4th line for an extended period of time in Phoenix? That would really hurt him statistically. For all the time Wolski spent in the doghouse, I thought he pretty much stayed on the top 3 lines.

by Inebriated Simian Miscreants on Jul 26, 2010 9:37 AM MDT reply actions  

The only year that Wolski didn’t play on the wing of a very talented play maker would be ‘08-’09 when both Sakic and Stastny went down for a majority of the year with injuries. His 14 goals and 42 points kind of ecapsulated what he could do when he was called on to take up the slack and be the man.

The biggest difference between Mueller and Wolski is that Mueller never played on the wing of Joe Fricken Sakic.

by Dario on Jul 26, 2010 9:38 AM MDT reply actions  

The biggest difference between Mueller and Wolski is that Mueller never played on the wing of Joe Fricken Sakic.

and, unfortunately, never will.

Assistant *to* the Managing Editor, Mile High Hockey

by David Driscoll-Carignan on Jul 26, 2010 9:39 AM MDT up reply actions  

I swore I wasn’t going to cry!

by Dario on Jul 26, 2010 9:40 AM MDT up reply actions  

LOL.

"All the world's indeed a stage, and we are merely players."

"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.

Quitter's People United Member #18

by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 26, 2010 9:24 PM MDT up reply actions  

The biggest difference between Mueller and Wolski is that Mueller never played on the wing of Joe Fricken Sakic.

great point, but I would also submit that Mueller shoots, shoots first, and shoots well. Wolski had holdontothepuckitis, and only a decent shot.

by thedoctor on Jul 26, 2010 9:44 AM MDT up reply actions  

It should also be noted that Wolski is moving back to center now that Phoenix has acquired Ray Whitney. With Doan on one wing and Whitney on the other his assist numbers should be decent.

Wolski (especially under Tippet) will have to play more defense. He’s actually very good defensively and much better than Mueller in that area so I think the Center position will suit Wolski better. However, Wolski has never had a huge motor on him and if he’s going to babysit his own zone a lot and fight pucks back out of his zone and in to the offense he’s going to gas out a lot if history is any indicator of future results.

by Dario on Jul 26, 2010 9:50 AM MDT up reply actions  

THIS

Very good points all across the board. I think Ferris’ point production will increase due to he will be playing the wing with SoS or Dutchy and both players are great setup men plus i see Dutchy pulling a lot more attention this year after his performance last year so it would be nice to have a winger like Ferris there to attract some of that attention.

Let the new season begin already!!!

by BryceLeo on Jul 26, 2010 10:00 AM MDT up reply actions  

yeah, Wolski could put up some serious points this year on that line.

by thedoctor on Jul 26, 2010 10:03 AM MDT up reply actions  

Agreed, but...

even if Mueller doesn’t put up as many points as Wolski does overall, I still say the trade worked out better for us. Mueller can shoot the puck and play LW effectively, thus filling a need role much better than Wolski did.

by MalachiConstant on Jul 26, 2010 10:07 AM MDT up reply actions  

yep, i agree. mostly im just thrilled not to scream at wolski to act like he cared through my tv 10 times per game.

by thedoctor on Jul 26, 2010 10:08 AM MDT up reply actions  

and no tucker either, svats. shit..we’re going to need a whipping boy this season..

Is it October yet?!

by horbayj on Jul 26, 2010 10:10 AM MDT up reply actions  

I officially nominate Liles.

With his contract and the pressure of young defensemen behind him I think it’s inevitable. We might as well make it official. Too bad because he’s one of the nicest, most accessible Avs players I’ve had the pleasure to meet.

by Dario on Jul 26, 2010 10:12 AM MDT up reply actions  

Yep. I hope Liles lights it up this year so we can get something nice in return for him at the trade deadline. Our prospects guarantee he won’t be sticking around, so I’m hoping for a desperate team to give us a first rounder for him.

"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny

by Dixomatic on Jul 26, 2010 10:14 AM MDT up reply actions  

I’m hoping for a desperate team to give us a first rounder for him.

Hey Tambo..yah it’s Greg, hey, do I have a deal for you…

Is it October yet?!

by horbayj on Jul 26, 2010 10:15 AM MDT up reply actions  

Maybe we can get Toronto's 2012/2013 1st rounders.

Dear Colorado Avalanche: Thank you for the excitement, see you in October.

by Drakenlot on Jul 26, 2010 3:18 PM MDT up reply actions  

You can tell Liles really puts in the effort though. It’s easy to tell the team really likes him. I’d rather not have him as the go-to whipping boy.

I nominate um…. well… it’s kind of nice having a hard time finding an easy target for once.

by MalachiConstant on Jul 26, 2010 10:16 AM MDT up reply actions  

gut feel: Yip. everyone is going to be all surprised when he pulls a mcleod and stops scoring.

by thedoctor on Jul 26, 2010 10:18 AM MDT up reply actions  

as long as he still lights people up and busts his ass out there, I’ll take a drop in scoring production

Is it October yet?!

by horbayj on Jul 26, 2010 10:19 AM MDT up reply actions  

same. but i wonder how consistent his effort level will stay. he already struggled a bit with that last year, imagine how it will be in a reduced role and potentially not scoring…

by thedoctor on Jul 26, 2010 10:20 AM MDT up reply actions  

thats true, esp if (god forbid) everyone else hits a ‘sophmore slump’

Is it October yet?!

by horbayj on Jul 26, 2010 10:22 AM MDT up reply actions  

Yeah, this

To me, a good whipping boy is someone who just out of no where does something so completely asinine that it makes you pull a Lewis Black, “a… wha?!” and/or develop the sudden urge to break something, eventually culminating into a heavy drinking problem.

Using that criteria, best bets: Quincey, Stewart, Cumiskey and Hannan

by MalachiConstant on Jul 26, 2010 10:23 AM MDT up reply actions  

Well, there’s always Budaj, because, you know, HE’S DE SUXXORX1

"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny

by Dixomatic on Jul 26, 2010 10:23 AM MDT up reply actions  

as is that dutchy kid, WHO SHULD B SNT BCK TO JRRZZ

Is it October yet?!

by horbayj on Jul 26, 2010 10:24 AM MDT up reply actions  

Quincey (2nd half version) made me want to do that this year, I’ve accepted the fact Hannan isn’t what he used to be (ohh the SJ years..) sorta like Foote..

Is it October yet?!

by horbayj on Jul 26, 2010 10:27 AM MDT up reply actions  

Boy, is your beer gonna taste good! Ye of little faith!

Colorado Avalanche Offseason Strategy - Please wake us in October

by Hopfenkopf on Jul 26, 2010 11:18 AM MDT up reply actions  

heh, i feel solid about my Gally > Yip side of the bet…if you can’t tell. :)

by thedoctor on Jul 26, 2010 11:25 AM MDT up reply actions  

I’m gonna win:

Yip- 32-51-83
Gali – 36-46-82

Come on in! The delusion’s fine!

Colorado Avalanche Offseason Strategy - Please wake us in October

by Hopfenkopf on Jul 26, 2010 11:30 AM MDT up reply actions  

I’ve got a bet with Dan, that I can’t remember. I don’t think we’ve set terms, but a 6-pack sounds like a good one.

Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time

by Jibblescribbits on Jul 26, 2010 11:31 AM MDT up reply actions  

Dan hates beer

I know, because I’ve poured a few on him over the years.

Your 2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Reaching Up to the Cap Floor

by Bob in Boulder on Jul 26, 2010 11:35 AM MDT up reply actions  

Fine

I’ll buy him a few white wine spritzers or mimosas or something.

Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time

by Jibblescribbits on Jul 26, 2010 11:50 AM MDT up reply actions  

Cosmo night!!!

What's the difference between a duck?

by hedge_duck on Jul 26, 2010 11:52 AM MDT up reply actions  

Dan definitely likes his malternative beverages. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Your 2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Reaching Up to the Cap Floor

by Bob in Boulder on Jul 26, 2010 12:05 PM MDT up reply actions  

Jibbs Icing Dan!!!!!!!!

If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!

by Mike @ MHH on Jul 26, 2010 1:18 PM MDT up reply actions  

I don’t ice people. Icing is lame

Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time

by Jibblescribbits on Jul 26, 2010 1:27 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yes, but...

what if it’s no-touch icing?

Colorado Avalanche Offseason Strategy - Please wake us in October

by Hopfenkopf on Jul 26, 2010 1:33 PM MDT up reply actions  

Our bet

is whether or not Pablo Sandoval’s weight will exceed his OBP within the next calendar year. I say yes, Jibs says no.

No, wait…our bet is about Hannan’s next contract: Jibs says at least $3.5/year, Dan says Fuck the heck?

You'll see all your favorite soccer stars. Like Adiaga! Adiaga two! Badiaga! Aruglia! And Pizzoza!

by Dan Winkler on Jul 26, 2010 3:08 PM MDT up reply actions  

Right

Except I said around $3.5M/year (between $3.3-3.7).

but I"ll still bet a 6-pack of beer / fine assortment of fruity liquors on that ~3.5M number for Hannan (with an injury disclaimer)

Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time

by Jibblescribbits on Jul 26, 2010 3:29 PM MDT up reply actions  

Also

We really should have a stickied thread devoted to all the MHH member bets.

I know there’s the $20 on 50 points for Hensick this season between DetAvs and doc, Bib, Dan and a few more I think

The one above on Gally vs Yip on who will have more points.

Dan and I’s on Hannan’s contract.

and and I on Sandoval (whose been raking it since the AS Break)

Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time

by Jibblescribbits on Jul 26, 2010 3:37 PM MDT up reply actions  

and and I on Sandoval (whose been raking it since the AS Break)

His batting average is exactly the same right now at this minute as it was two days before the all-star game (.263). He’s hit .225 for the month of July. Plus, he’s dealing with personal problems (in the middle of a divorce), so I wouldn’t be confident that he’ll shake things off so quickly.

We don’t really have a bet on him, but his decline has sure been scary and sudden.

And I didn’t seen any $3.3-$3.7 caveat from you in your original Hannan comments, btw.

You'll see all your favorite soccer stars. Like Adiaga! Adiaga two! Badiaga! Aruglia! And Pizzoza!

by Dan Winkler on Jul 26, 2010 4:30 PM MDT up reply actions  

it’s only been 2 weeks, but his OBP is better.

And I don’t remember the post, but I believe I said ~$3.5M, which means 3.5 give or take. 0.2M is less than 10% so i figured that’s a good buffer, if you’d like to negotiate I don’t think details are finalized…

Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time

by Jibblescribbits on Jul 26, 2010 4:37 PM MDT up reply actions  

it’s only been 2 weeks, but his OBP is better.

True. It’s up from .322 to .325. Which I’m pretty sure doesn’t qualify as “raking it.”

You'll see all your favorite soccer stars. Like Adiaga! Adiaga two! Badiaga! Aruglia! And Pizzoza!

by Dan Winkler on Jul 26, 2010 4:47 PM MDT up reply actions  

raising it three percentage points in 2 weeks after 1/2 a season of crap is pretty decent.

Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time

by Jibblescribbits on Jul 26, 2010 5:07 PM MDT up reply actions  

Mcleod, a thirdliner with no grit (anymore), if he plays like he did last year he’s going to the doghouse really quick.

Are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.

by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jul 26, 2010 6:49 PM MDT up reply actions  

You know what? I am so accustomed to saying this i shall keep doing it this season anyway:

What the fuck is Clark doing on the power play?

Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.

by c6hor8 on Jul 26, 2010 10:29 AM MDT up reply actions  

there’s something i’d like to see, our pp conversion % with and without clark/tucker on the ice

(i think i know the answer to this one though)

Is it October yet?!

by horbayj on Jul 26, 2010 10:30 AM MDT up reply actions  

Blockin' shots

What's the difference between a duck?

by hedge_duck on Jul 26, 2010 10:31 AM MDT up reply actions  

Iz on urz powerplayz, blockin yr shotz?

Is it October yet?!

by horbayj on Jul 26, 2010 10:33 AM MDT up reply actions  

What's the difference between a duck?

by hedge_duck on Jul 26, 2010 10:37 AM MDT up reply actions  

is that the start of Cheechoo’s career nosediving into the present day?

Is it October yet?!

by horbayj on Jul 26, 2010 10:38 AM MDT up reply actions  

Yea

I think he forgot which way to shoot the puck too. It looks like he’s coming out of a slapshot.

What's the difference between a duck?

by hedge_duck on Jul 26, 2010 10:40 AM MDT up reply actions  

I can’t stop looking at that picture. It’s like watching a train wreck.

Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.

by c6hor8 on Jul 26, 2010 11:19 AM MDT up reply actions  

The level of talent is outstanding. Cheechoo, Clark and Budaj…

Haha. Budaj’s easily the best player in the picture.

What's the difference between a duck?

by hedge_duck on Jul 26, 2010 11:20 AM MDT up reply actions  

I dunno, I think Clark blocked more shot last season…then again maybe that’s because Clark got off the bench?

MHH: The Burgundy Army is on the March!

I'm The Canary - but I'm not cute nor cuddly, and I don't sing.

by Americanario on Jul 26, 2010 11:29 AM MDT up reply actions  

Aside from: “clear the f*cking puck” and “atta’ boy Andy!”, “you’ve got to get there Wolly” and “god f*cking d*mnit Wolly” were easily my most used phrases.

by MalachiConstant on Jul 26, 2010 10:11 AM MDT up reply actions  

"clear the f*cking puck"

this made me LOL hard…cause it’s true

Is it October yet?!

by horbayj on Jul 26, 2010 10:14 AM MDT up reply actions  

How’s about, “Will someone shoot the f*$&@ puck?”

by Andy_ on Jul 26, 2010 11:46 AM MDT up reply actions  

I don’t like the “SHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT,” it’s annoying. But I am a big fan of “clear the F*&#IN puck!”

Help help! I'm being repressed!

by chiavsfan on Jul 26, 2010 4:20 PM MDT up reply actions  

Man once you catch that it’s almost as bad a getting a case of the Hjarlmarsson.

Jimmy Howard invented the Stanley Cup.

by c6hor8 on Jul 26, 2010 9:51 AM MDT up reply actions  

Bless you

What's the difference between a duck?

by hedge_duck on Jul 26, 2010 10:23 AM MDT up reply actions  

Hey "doctor"
holdontothepuckitis

There’s a clinical definition for this – “to Wolski about”

Colorado Avalanche Offseason Strategy - Please wake us in October

by Hopfenkopf on Jul 26, 2010 11:16 AM MDT up reply actions  

To Wolski aboot, eh?

Never trust the lunch lady.

by Hardshell_Taco_del_Lowayne on Jul 26, 2010 2:42 PM MDT up reply actions  

Wasnt a fan of the deal back then. Mueller’s good play impressed so now I’m ok with it.

That being said Wolski will outscore Mueller easily. First line time at centre and he’ll stay healthy.

by NEB on Jul 26, 2010 10:32 AM MDT reply actions  

OK, the health thing maybe, though hopefully the concussion is gone permanently for Mueller. Other than that, I think Wolski will outscore Mueller by a little bit, but I’m still not convinced he’s going to remain at first line center for the entire season, while Mueller will play with premier play-making centers and get opportunities quarterbacking the powerplay.

I spent more effort eating a pudding than Tyler Arnason skated last year.

by Shoeshiner on Jul 26, 2010 12:03 PM MDT up reply actions  

7 votes for Porter

LOL.

Your 2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Reaching Up to the Cap Floor

by Bob in Boulder on Jul 26, 2010 10:36 AM MDT reply actions  

Pinchy’s Michigan fanboi has gotten the best of him.

Intelligent opinion does not follow the transitive property
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time

by Jibblescribbits on Jul 26, 2010 10:41 AM MDT up reply actions  

Amazing that the stank from the little ball of meh hasn’t tainted Pinchy’s fanboishness.

Your 2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Reaching Up to the Cap Floor

by Bob in Boulder on Jul 26, 2010 11:04 AM MDT up reply actions  

I feel dirty for just reading a sentence containing “stank,” “ball,” “taint,” “Pinch,” and “fanboi.”

"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny

by Dixomatic on Jul 26, 2010 11:17 AM MDT up reply actions  

fanboi

ewwww

What's the difference between a duck?

by hedge_duck on Jul 26, 2010 11:21 AM MDT up reply actions  

Apparently my fanboi has been sleeping around on me. I’m going to confront him.

Fushigi - It floats, it levitates, it will confuse the senses with it's mind-blowing movements.

by Pinchy The Lobster on Jul 26, 2010 7:13 PM MDT up reply actions  

Bottom line for me. . .

And this point has prolly all ready been made, but Mueller seems like he really wants to be here. Wolski seemed like he wanted to be here. . . sometimes. So, my vote went to Mueller. And it makes sense what TimmyHate said; the votes would be flipped on a Coyotes blog. Word.

by ljp78 on Jul 26, 2010 2:28 PM MDT reply actions  

Maybe I’m inferring a lot from the news clips, etc. but it seemed like Wolski not only couldn’t be bothered to show up on the ice all the time, but that his attitude towards games was a hindrance in the locker room as well. The Avs have a young squad that is bursting at the seams with kids who play hard and want to win badly (e.g. Duchene, Radar and Gali) and it’s pretty easy to imagine how a more nonchalant attitude from Wolski just wouldn’t mesh well.

by MalachiConstant on Jul 26, 2010 3:00 PM MDT up reply actions  

I was told by someone who knows someone that a part of it was Wolski’s lifestyle was “too wild and irresponsible.” FWIW…

"Being called an off-the-board pick, I love it. I can’t wait to prove everyone wrong and show that’s where I belong to be drafted." - Joey Hishon

The Colorado Avalanche: every second, every shift, every play

by Beachie on Jul 27, 2010 3:42 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

One thing those stats don’t show is Wolski’s loafing around like a blind man on defense and his “WHY SHOT WHEN I CAN PAS INTO CROWD” style of play.

The 09/10 Colorado Rockies: Starring Johnny Herrera as THE ANSWER
THIS IS BUFFALO NATION GODZILLA HAS AWAKEN - abayarde
SBNation Denver: Because the Rapids are people too!
Burgundy Wave: My Rapids Blog

by UZ on Jul 26, 2010 5:27 PM MDT reply actions  

Mueller Got Hosed

Mueller’s rookie season was based on skill alone. No one saw him coming. When D started to focus on him and he needed coaching to figure out how to adjust, Gretzky let him down. Mueller lost his mojo. Tippett isn’t exactly high on young players to start with, let alone one with confidence issues. His playing time was crap, he didn’t play power play, and he couldn’t work himself out of a funk at 11 minutes of bottoms six time.

I prefer Mueller over Wolski.

Wolski may have consistency over Mueller, but he probably also has more time with a coach who actually does something at practice to improve skills. Mueller just needs someone to believe in him enough to give him “important minutes” and to make it a full season with no concussion. That poor brain of his.

I’d undo this trade if I could, but maybe I just dislike Wolski because he cost my team Mueller.

by Yotesgurl on Jul 27, 2010 1:43 PM MDT reply actions  

Thanks for the input. Mueller will get time on the top two lines and the power play here no problem and Sacco is fantastic with young players. Should be the perfect spot for Mueller. Hopefully it works out.

by MalachiConstant on Jul 27, 2010 1:58 PM MDT up reply actions  

Wolski has consistency? :O

by thedoctor on Jul 27, 2010 2:45 PM MDT up reply actions  

Mueller's linemates

A lot of people were wondering who Mueller had as linemates coming through the Coyotes. His first season, even though he was a rookie, he primarily played at C or RW with Doan at LW, and Steven Reinprecht at C or Daniel Winnik at W when Mueller was a C. Yotesgurl is correct that Mueller kind of came out of nowhere, but that was like a microcosm for the entire team. We didn’t have a ton of high-talent players in that group, but we were very competitive on the ice. It was what made people believe that we could do some extraordinary things the following year. He and Doan had a lot of chemistry together though.

Two seasons ago, that all changed and I don’t know if there was anything specific that you could blame on Mueller, but his game digressed somewhat. I believe that we originally wanted him to play RW, so we kept him with Doan and put Jokinen at C. Don’t know if it was Jokinen, or apathy in Peter’s part, but he never got going. Then, as was the case with Gretzky, we rarely had the same line for more than 4 games in a row, and Wayne didn’t know how to match players up well at all. He just figured that everyone should be able to play with the others all the same. Peter’s shots and shooting % went way down. I don’t know if that’s what started his unhappiness in PHX, but it was almost like he gave up, which is surprising considering that the ‘Yotes were doing well prior to the All-Star break, then faded fast. The concussion definitely didn’t help Mueller, and I think he wasn’t aware of how physical the game was b/c he had either Doan and Reinprecht or Doan/Winnik the year before (all very physical players), and the next year he had to deal with Jokinen and a ton of rookies who were not very physical at all.

Last year, he just seemed lost. Upshall was ready to play. Lombardi was ready to play – we tried Peter on so many different lines and in many different scenarios, but it was like he just stopped caring and/or trying.

Personally, I think he had such a successful rookie year, that he simply forgot how to work hard. His first goal with the Avalanche was almost dumb luck by throwing it at the net from near the corner of the blue line, and I don’t think that speaks volumes about his play. He had more name-significant linemates in his 2nd year, and didn’t really do much to work hard last year. I think that this analysis is spot on – he’s going to be a very streaky player. When he’s doing well, he’s as valuable of a teammate as you will find. But when he has a string of bad days, it can last and last.

I may be wrong here, but I think that in the long run, Wolski will wind up being the better player, both next year and in seasons to come. Mueller doesn’t seem like he has “grown up” – after all, he was in the league right out of high school. I think it says quite a bit when Wolski played for Brampton for 2 more years before making the Avs team. I’d be more worried about Mueller becoming petulant because things aren’t going his way, b/c his play can and will affect any line that he is on, regardless of who you move him around with. I think Wolski is much the opposite, but there will be a definitive line that Wolski works better with…

by BUX7PHX on Jul 31, 2010 5:55 PM MDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

For original fans of the Quebec Nordiques, transplanted fans of the Colorado Rockies, day one fans of the Avalanche and bandwagon fans just looking for a place to root.
Start posting about the Avalanche »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

Connect_with_facebook

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Noe_small
SHOCKING NEWS: The Avs attempt marketing?
Small
Avalanche Low Balling Stewart and Mueller?
Ray-bourque-250_small
TV Schedule Discrepancy...
Small
Burgundy/White
Chs_patch_small
A few schedule observations
Manbearstewart_small
Could Jagr have been an Av?
Stump0001_small
Looking at the Avs performance in Close Games
Bladesofsteel_small
Versus schedule
2309379311_5dd939250e_o_small
The Avs are just flat out wrong
Denver_spurs_small
Time Value of the Average Superstar

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Promotion


Add to Technorati Favorites Sports Blogs - Blog Top Sites
Sports Blogs Blogroll.net
Top Blogs Sports blogs
Blog Directory
BlogRankers.com Sport Blogs - Blog Catalog Blog Directory

 


View Stats

Listed on the ArmchairGM Sports Blog Index


 

View blog authority

 

SBNation.com Recent Stories

PHILADELPHIA - MAY 16:  A fan of the Philadelphia Flyers holds up a sign reading "Next Goalie" behind goalie Carey Price #32 of the Montreal Canadiens in Game 1 of the Eastern Conference Finals during the 2010 NHL Stanley Cup Playoffs at Wachovia Center on May 16, 2010 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.  (Photo by Bruce Bennett/Getty Images)

Habs Finally Lock Up Carey Price, Sign Goalie To Two-Year Deal

National Hockey League commissioner Gary Bettman answers questions during a pre-game media availability before the Pittsburgh Penguins season opener against the New York Rangers in a NHL hockey game in Pittsburgh, Friday, Oct. 2, 2009. (AP Photo/Gene J. Puskar) +25 updates

Ultimatum? NHL Reportedly Threatens To Toss Out Kovalchuk, Luongo Deals Without NHLPA Concessions

Photo +1 updates

Report: Donald Fehr Hands NHLPA List Of Conditions On Becoming Union Leader

More from SBNation.com >


Managing Editors

Icon_small Joe Dunman

Hpim2877__800x600__small David Driscoll-Carignan

Staff Writers

Profilepic2_small Mike @ MHH

Boone_small Angélique C. Murray

Photo_10_small Derek B

Black_mage_small Dustin Burfiend

Young_guns_poster_copy_small Paul's Coffey