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Around SBN: Upon Further Review: Bo Knows Longreads

Searching For Salary

The drama is over. Peter Mueller and Chris Stewart are signed and the Avalanche project to be over the salary cap floor...albeit just barely and only because of the savvy Tom Preissing buyout to artificially inflate the cap hit. The Avalanche currently have about $18 million in cap space (enough to sign Ilya Kovalchuk. Twice.) but don't expect any major transactions to occur to change that.

In the real world, that is. Here in our blogging fantasy land we decided to take a break from our busy day frolicking with unicorns and supermodels to envision a deal to make the team better today instead of waiting for the fruits of the Tree of Rebuilding to ripen into juicy, succulent man fruit. And yes, I too find that imagery disturbing.

The other day I was contacted by Tom Stivali from In Lou We Trust. His Devils are currently at the opposite end of the salary spectrum and need to pare some salary before the start of the season. Since the Avalanche have enough cap space to drive a truck through (or at least a Kyle Wellwood), he pegged the Avs as a good potential partner for the Devils. So, we both donned our stylish GM fedoras and engaged in a week of cutthroat fake trade negotiations, which is coming up after the break

Star-divide

Tom:

David, thank you so much for taking the time to participate in this exercise.

I know you are not going to take salary from the Devils for nothing, so no asset that the Devils currently have (except their 2011 second pick which was already traded) is off the table for this discussion. That being said, there are a few areas which I think the Devils can help the Avalanche both at the NHL level and in their development system. After taking a look at the Avalanche prospects, it seems the development system has a lack of high-end
talent at both left wing and the goaltender position. At the NHL level, it looks as if the Avalanche could use some additional goal scoring power out of the left wing position and a defensive focused defenseman to help eat up some of the time that Brett Clark (who departed via free agency) played (Clark had 19:08 TOI per game and
1:56 of that TOI on the penalty kill unit). Am I correct in these observations?

David:


The Colorado Avalanche do indeed have a great deal of cap room - heck, they are currently operating below the cap floor - so they would indeed seem like a good trading partner for the Devils. There is a lot of speculation Avalanche GM Greg Sherman is being ordered to stay at the minimum, but I, as acting fake GM, have received no such edict from the mucky mucks and will have no qualms about adding some salary...if it helps our team.

While it's true that we did lose Brett Clark and Ruslan Salei to free agency, both spent many nights in the press box last season and we don't expect their departure to have a huge impact. More importantly, we have a plethora of young defensemen like Kevin Shattenkirk, Jonas Holos and Cameron Gaunce (just to name a few) who will be pushing for playing time this year. So, while a defensive-minded veteran would be a nice addition, we'd probably be more inclined to stick with the youth movement here.

You are spot on about left wing, though. The Avs' top left wingers on the depth chart are T.J. Galiardi, Peter Mueller and Ryan Stoa - two rookies last year and a player with one 20-goal season under his belt. While we think that all three have the potential to be solid NHL players, a little more firepower would be really useful here. It would
be an added bonus if that player had some leadership traits (the Avs' oldest center is 24) and PP skills would be desirable as well as the Avs were fairly mediocre in that department last year.

One other area the Avalanche could use a boost in: toughness. Cody McLeod is the only player who had more than 100 PIMs last year and he is not exactly a heavyweight. David Koci is on the roster, but doesn't figure to play much. In recent years, the Avalanche have lost guys like Ian Laperriere, Matt Hendricks and Cody McCormick - guys who could play and weren't afraid to drop the gloves.

Looking forward to hearing your offer.

Tom:

Seeing that you don't need any defensemen, which makes sense considering your system depth, the Devils have two options at wing that might be appealing to the Avalanche. The first would be former Avalanche player Brian Rolston (note that as fake GM I will operate under the idea that I can negotiate terms of a possible trade involving Rolston with the understanding that he would have to waive his NTC) who can help your team in all the areas you are looking for below. Scoring from the wing, power play skills at the point and at the age of 37 he would be a strong veteran presence on the team. The second option would be Dainius Zubrus. While not a scoring wing like Rolston, he can score with the right players and he is willing to do the dirty work along the boards and down low. He was especially effective on a line with Travis Zajac and Zach Parise, clearing out some space for them down low. I could see him working on the wing with Matt Duschene. He also, while not a fighter, is tough and will protect his teammates on the ice.

Now I know while for both players their cap hit is a concern (Rolston at $5MM and Zubrus at $3.4MM), each player still provides a good level of productivity. That said, I can make the following two offers to you:

1. Brian Rolston (of course this is contingent on his waiving his NTC), a third round pick in 2011 and left wing prospect Alexander Vasyunov for the rights to Peter Mueller and a fifth round pick in 2011.

2. Dainius Zubrus and Alexander Vasyunov for the rights to Peter Mueller.

Vasyunov is blocked in NJ, but still has top six potential in the NHL. His natural position is LW, which the Avalanche lack in their development system. Either Rolston or Zubrus helps you in different ways on the power play and on even strength. Since Rolston does have a high cap hit for his production, I am comfortable swapping picks to even out the deal. The Devils could use Mueller as a bottom six forward if he was willing to sign for $1-$1.5MM per year.

No interest in Bryce Salvador? He does help provide the toughness you are looking for.......

David:

We're actually pretty high on Mueller. He scored 20 points in 15 games with us this spring and we believe he has top 6 talent. Indeed, he scored as many points as Rolston did last year (and more than Zubrus) and, at 21, could still have his best days in front of him. He's not untouchable, but the asking price for him would be considerably higher.

Rolston is a guy that we've liked for a while and that point shot could certainly bolster our powerplay. But that salary is an anchor. We'd probably be thinking more in line with depth forward Kevin Porter for Rolston.

Zubrus is an intriguing player, but again that salary is a bit tough on the wallet. Being on the hook for 3 more years at $3.4 million for a guy who hasn't scored more than 40 points since 2007 is a bit hard to swallow, especially since the Avalanche are concerned with the upcoming CBA and only have one player signed past 2012. For Zubrus, we'd be willing to offer the rights to Russian prospect Denis Parshin. The Avs drafted Parshin in the 3rd round of the 2004 draft but have yet to be able to pry him away from CSKA Moscow of the KHL. I don't know: do the Devils have any high profile Russian players that might be a draw for Parshin to come stateside?

There's another player we might be interested in: Jamie Langenbrunner. While we have good depth at right wing, we think Langenbrunner's leadership and offensive ability would be a boon to our young team. His cap number ($2.8 million) is much more palatable than Rolston's or Zubrus' and, as an added bonus, he's a free agent after this season. For Langenbrunner, we'd be willing to offer Porter and Kyle Cumiskey a speedy defenseman. Both Avalanche players have favorable salaries - $660,000 for Porter and $600,000 for Cumiskey.

Tom:

Since Langenbrunner is still the team 'Captain', management has issued an edict to keep him for the remainder of the year. Parshin is intriguing and since he is in the KHL there wouldn't be a concern about an additional contract on the books (if he ever came over) for a few years. I think we are close to common ground so let me throw two amended offers your way:

1. Rolston (NTC disclaimers still apply) and a third round pick in 2011 for Parshin and a sixth round pick from the Avalanche in 2011.
2. Zubrus and a fourth round pick in 2011 for Parshin.

Bryce Salvador still available.......

David:

I think we can do that Rolston deal. Zubrus' 3rd year is just too much of a potential burden for us down the road. Rolston's cap number is terrible, but we think we can absorb that salary for 2 years, and he'll be off the books before guys like Matt Duchene and Chris Stewart are due for new deals.

Salvador is intriguing to us, but we would have to give up one of the 6 on the roster now to make room for him.

Tom:

Fair enough. If Rolston doesn't waive his NTC what could we do with Zubrus? If I said Zubrus and a second round pick in 2012 for Parshin, would that work for you?

David:

I think we'd probably need a 1st to make that work...

Tom:

Ok, the Rolston deal is priority #1. If he doesn't waive his NTC then Zubrus is yours. Now we just need to make it from my lips (fingertips?) to our hockey God's (Lou Lamoriello) ears.

David's Takeaway:

I actually think the 6'5" Zubrus might be a better fit for the Avalanche on the ice, but that 3rd contract year was just too scary for me. Plus, I think Rolston's versatility and leadership ability - not to mention that wicked slapshot - would be great for the team. Is his salary too high? Hell yes. But the Avalanche have plenty of cap room this year and next year and Rolston's $5 million comes off the books before Duchene and the rest of the gang start signing extensions.

Giving up Denis Parshin wasn't a difficult decision as it seems like his chances of coming to Colorado are slim as it is. Although Parshin seemed interested in making the jump last summer, the Avalanche appeared to have little interest in the diminutive forward.

One of the difficulties in doing this from my lazy chair is that I don't have a scouting department to guide me on the progress on younger players. Vasyunov seemed intriguing and I probably should have worked a little harder to obtain him, but I don't know much about him so it's tough to give up assets for an unknown return. Furthermore, in a perfect world I probably could have spun one of the bazillion defense prospects the Avalanche have, but I'm not really sure how they project out on the depth chart. Is Tyson Barrie going to be better than Stefan Elliott? How about Holos vs Cameron Gaunce? Joel Chouinard vs Colby Cohen? Without that scouting knowledge, I couldn't quite drill down deep enough to make this as realistic an exercise as I would like. But I still got to wear a cool fedora.

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Well done, sir!

When I read Tom’s first proposal, I was quite taken aback! I guess it’s easy to undervalue Peter Mueller if you’re not familiar with his performance with us.

But you countered quite aggressively, and it worked out brilliantly, as I think both deals that he offered were a steal for the Avs.

Honestly, I would’ve preferred the Zubrus and a 1st deal, as I think Zubrus would be a better fit and it’s always fun to think about what a first round pick might be when we’re sitting around bored during the summer. Zubrus’ overpaid 3rd year doesn’t scare me that much…but your actions are probably more in line with what Avs management would do, and they make plenty of sense.

I say you got a damn good deal. Essentially, you turned nothing (prospect that will probably never play on NHL ice and a late round pick) into something! Great job!

Fake welcome back to Brian Rolston!

by Stazz21 on Sep 11, 2010 9:26 AM MDT reply actions  

Concur on all counts. Bitchin’ hat DDC!

Colorado Avalanche Offseason Strategy - Please wake us in October

by Hopfenkopf on Sep 11, 2010 9:47 AM MDT up reply actions  

You didn't trade for Brodeur?

Doc Emrick does not approve

Is it hockey season yet?
BUFFALO NATION WILL see your BUFFALO BILLS KICK THE soul out of the TUNA FISH FLIPPER ACE VENTURA OILY FLAUNDER NO TAIL SHAMUU WHANA BEs - abayarde
Paul McCartney Can't Play Piano
Burgundy Wave: Nobody's favorite Rapids Blog! (Now on SBnation!)

by UZ on Sep 11, 2010 11:21 AM MDT reply actions  

No pucks? Those things don’t pay for themselves.

"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny

by Dixomatic on Sep 11, 2010 11:56 AM MDT reply actions  

and what about the bag? Those pucks don’t hold themselves.

Homer no function beer well without.

by An Unmitigated Disaster on Sep 11, 2010 9:46 PM MDT up reply actions  

Unless they are self holding pucks. In that case they may pay for themselves but only in the long term.

There are two ways of being happy: We must either diminish our wants or augment our means - either may do - the result is the same and it is for each man to decide for himself and to do that which happens to be easier.
- Benjamin Franklin

by tibbar on Sep 12, 2010 11:50 AM MDT up reply actions  

I think we have some things called “puck seeds,” which we will plant and grow our own pucks from within.

"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny

by Dixomatic on Sep 12, 2010 5:06 PM MDT up reply actions  

interesting. You seem to value Rolston over what I do. I like Rolston, but that contract is bonkers. You’d have to pay me a lot more to take him on, along the lines of Rolston + 1st for 7th, or Rolston + Urbom (a prospect I simply love) for Cumiskey. I would never do Porter for Rolston straight up — I consider Rolston to have large net negative value, nor would I do the Rolston+ 3rd for Parshin + 6th.

Zubrus and a 1st for Parshin is a deal I love. Zubrus fits well here, with his versatility and size.

by thedoctor on Sep 11, 2010 11:59 AM MDT reply actions  

No way the Avs take on that salary for essentially a 4th rounder

as the Devils will draft late in the 3rd round. The Avs will need at least a first to take on any kind of real salary for non-star players.

by zandar on Sep 11, 2010 2:49 PM MDT up reply actions  

I'd do Porter for Rolston straight up

I predict Porter will have a Hensick-like career. He’s just not particularly effective in any aspect of the game. Only problem with that is… where would Rolston fit? 4th line? I think not.

I may have been drinking today, but I still don’t get why we would ever want another forward. Are we gonna put Yip or Jones on the 4th line? Galiardi? Mueller? Hejduk? Stewart? Are we gonna Tonya Harding someone to create roster space? I just don’t understand the thought process.

by HeyPeterman on Sep 11, 2010 4:13 PM MDT up reply actions  

The thought process

Is we need depth. Badly.

More than one or two guys injured at one time, we are fucked.

Dear Colorado Avalanche: Thank you for the excitement, see you in October.

by Drakenlot on Sep 11, 2010 8:06 PM MDT up reply actions  

if the avs sign tucker (or any depth forward) they pretty much have what they had last year. As this summer has dragged on I’m not as concerned about it as I was in july.

Homer no function beer well without.

by An Unmitigated Disaster on Sep 11, 2010 9:48 PM MDT up reply actions  

Ok

If we are that worried about injury-prone players, why dont we throw one into the mix? Jones and Porter for Zubris and a decent prospect. Then no one would have to play out of position

by HeyPeterman on Sep 12, 2010 10:20 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

I don’t think too highly or Porter highly. It’s more the huge risk and net negative that Rolston is.

by thedoctor on Sep 11, 2010 10:03 PM MDT up reply actions  

wtf happened here. i don’t think too highly of porter. yikes.

by thedoctor on Sep 11, 2010 10:10 PM MDT up reply actions  

I lol'd.

Epic response.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.

by A.J. Haefele on Sep 12, 2010 5:01 AM MDT up reply actions  

As a Devils fan

Lou, the devils organization, and the devils community in general is VERY high on Urbom. Lou has called him our best prospect before, and he has the potential to be an outstanding player.

There is literally no chance you will get him in a deal. Tedenby +Rolston for cumiskey is better, as with Kovalchuk a devil for life and Parise most likely staying as well (He’s an RFA this season, so he’s definitely staying for at least a year. The devils can easily pay him an 8 million/year cap hit as well with the contracts coming off the books this year), Tedenby would be playing a 3rd line position, which, although it would be incredible depth, makes him expendable. Plus, I hear you guys have a need at LW?

by skly27 on Sep 11, 2010 7:17 PM MDT up reply actions  

I think if this summer has taught us anything never say never with the ‘new’ Devils. Urbom, like everyone else, has to be in play for the Devils to make cap compliance.

by Tom Stivali on Sep 11, 2010 8:55 PM MDT up reply actions  

True enough

But I’d have to think Lou has said something like “we can offer you anything but x”. And I’d like to think, out of prospects/players without NTCs, those ’x’s’ are Zajac, JJ, Urbom, and Parise.

by skly27 on Sep 12, 2010 1:44 PM MDT up reply actions  

The devils can easily pay him an 8 million/year cap hit as well with the contracts coming off the books this year),

Technically they could, but right now in 2011-2012 the Devils have 10 slots to fill with $11MM in cap space. You can give Parise 8, but that leaves the team with $3MM for 9 slots. (of course the numbers could be totally different if a zubrus/rolston/salvador be moved)

by Tom Stivali on Sep 11, 2010 9:09 PM MDT up reply actions  

well, then it’s no deal if I was GM. Tedenby is a homerun type prospect at his size, not a blue chip.

I’d want something very established coming back to take on Rolston and give a good young cheap PMD, a spot of your need in return. Urbom, basically. I know you like Urbom, but there’s no need for the Avs to take a deal (we’re a little thin at LW, but not much) that doesn’t favor them a least a little. the Devils are dealing from weakness, and the Avs from strength.

by thedoctor on Sep 11, 2010 10:07 PM MDT up reply actions  

Not knowing anything about Urbom or Tedenby makes it hard for me to gauge value, but taking 2 over paid vets for a cheap puck mover doesn’t seem to be in our best interest.

And They Shall Know No Fear.

by i2strange97 on Sep 11, 2010 10:26 PM MDT up reply actions  

who’s the other overpaid vet?

by thedoctor on Sep 12, 2010 12:25 AM MDT up reply actions  

Urbom is one year removed from an AHL rookie season; not something I’d call “established”. He has loads of promise however. If I was Lou, I would leave him and trade someone like Corrente, Eckford, Taormina, or someone just a bit lower than Urbom.

by skly27 on Sep 12, 2010 1:42 PM MDT up reply actions  

he’s pretty ready imo. if i was sherman, i’d hold out for urbom. :)

by thedoctor on Sep 12, 2010 7:42 PM MDT up reply actions  

They also had interest in one Kyle Cumiskey. If Cummer’s, Parshin and a 3rd / 4th rounder gets us the Devils 1st, Zubrus and a prospect… Now that I think about it, I’m not sure we have our 3rd…

And They Shall Know No Fear.

by i2strange97 on Sep 11, 2010 1:15 PM MDT reply actions  

If Rolston in involved in this somehow, then my head will explode

I’m both awed and disgusted by the hubris of sports fans. Devils fans I know actually think that other teams want their shit that they want to get rid of. I hope to Forsberg the Kovy signing costs them Zajac, but Lou’s so smart that he’ll probably pawn off Rolston on somebody – just hope it’s not us.

We have been and continue to be guilty of this with the Avs. If we don’t think JML is worth his contract, then why would we think any other team wants him? Why would anyone else want to pay Hannan his way-too-big contract when we’re decidely ambivalent about him?

Lou fascinates me. I was rooting so hard for the Devils to get Kovy just so I could see how he’s going to worm his way out of his cap problems. He’ll do it, I’ll be irritated as hell when some stupid GM takes on Rolston for the next 2 seasons, but I’ll also begrudgingly give him credit and even wish our godfather was as involved with the Avs as Lou is with New Jersey.

I purposely jumped ahead to the comments without reading the story because I want to see if the ILWT guy has the stones to even mention Rolston. If you do, sir, then I’ll say “no way in hell” and “wow, what huge balls you have.”

You'll see all your favorite soccer stars. Like Adiaga! Adiaga two! Badiaga! Aruglia! And Pizzoza!

by Dan Winkler on Sep 11, 2010 4:06 PM MDT reply actions  

Dave, you're fired

Tom, your balls are even bigger than I thought.

Zajac was never mentioned in any of this – that’s a really terrible job on the Avs’ side. Dave, did Tom promise lube, or was it Oz-like?

Dan’s Takeaway:
I wouldn’t f*ck Rolston with Bob’s dick.

You'll see all your favorite soccer stars. Like Adiaga! Adiaga two! Badiaga! Aruglia! And Pizzoza!

by Dan Winkler on Sep 11, 2010 4:15 PM MDT up reply actions  

I hope you never go anywhere.

And They Shall Know No Fear.

by i2strange97 on Sep 11, 2010 4:17 PM MDT up reply actions  

love it

The 8th month is the month for Wolskis

by David Driscoll-Carignan on Sep 11, 2010 6:43 PM MDT up reply actions  

Tell us how you really feel.

Dear Colorado Avalanche: Thank you for the excitement, see you in October.

by Drakenlot on Sep 11, 2010 8:09 PM MDT up reply actions  

Thanks…….I think.

by Tom Stivali on Sep 11, 2010 8:56 PM MDT up reply actions  

Someone told me on Twitter the other day that he thought Liles was our best defenseman, and just used poorly. Unfortunately it wasn’t @MikeGillis

The Avs are under the cap floor, and others laugh at them, but when the Tornado comes, they'll be the only safe ones.
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time

by Jibblescribbits on Sep 11, 2010 4:49 PM MDT up reply actions  

I didn't notice until just recently

A lot of NHLers go at 75% most of the time. #1. Its a long season. #2. Being injured hurts, and jeopardizes a long and lucrative career. #3. Lots of guys only have career years on entry-level deals or in contract years. It makes sense – why risk injury and make $2M, when you can coast a bit and make $20M – $30M. I wonder if Liles has fallen victim to this thought process. I know Hannan has.

by HeyPeterman on Sep 11, 2010 5:00 PM MDT up reply actions  

You do Understand that...

Lou will mortgage that team’s future as he will not be sticking around much longer after Brodeur retires. So throwing away a 1st round pick to dump Zubrus or Roloston is nothing to him. Neither is the cap problems that the team could be facing in a few years. He just needs to make a run at it for the next few years.

by zandar on Sep 11, 2010 8:22 PM MDT up reply actions  

I think the Kovy move was dictated more by ownership than Lou. He just has to make the best out of the situation now, which means all future first round picks have to be available to move, similar to how the Devils had to move a first round pick to San Jose to get Malakhov off the books in 2006.

by Tom Stivali on Sep 11, 2010 8:58 PM MDT up reply actions  

“If we don’t think JML is worth his contract, then why would we think any other team wants him? Why would anyone else want to pay Hannan his way-too-big contract when we’re decidely ambivalent about him?”

Two words: Jeff Finger. Can you believe that contract? The Avs could have traded him away and made bank on him, apparently. Who knew?

by Andy_ on Sep 12, 2010 4:45 PM MDT up reply actions  

but that was a clerical error. doesn’t count

The 8th month is the month for Wolskis

by David Driscoll-Carignan on Sep 12, 2010 5:15 PM MDT up reply actions  

i still firmly believe they meant to sign Sauer after that inital press conference. so funny.

by thedoctor on Sep 12, 2010 7:42 PM MDT up reply actions  

I wonder if Pierre (Sherman proxy) would have allowed NJ to control the terms of the negotiation. NJ has to move salary, no doubt about it. The Avs really have no need to do anything. I would have put Zajac or Parise in play. I know the Devils don’t want to let go of either, but again, the guys they are offering would be an improvement, but not a huge one, and they will make a significant divot in the bottom-line.

I like to think about these salaries in terms of the number of added tickets. Would Rolston or Zubris put an additional 100,000 butts in the seats at Pepsi? That’s roughly what it would take to pay Rolston at $50/seat. Would either guarantee a playoff appearance? Making it to the second round? As tight as the Avs have been this off-season, that’s what it would take to close a deal.

Running-dog lackey counter-revolutionary malcontent, Not an expert.

by Busted Twigg on Sep 11, 2010 6:33 PM MDT reply actions  

I forgot to say that I thought it was an entertaining read and a thoughtful piece. Thanks Dave.

Running-dog lackey counter-revolutionary malcontent, Not an expert.

by Busted Twigg on Sep 11, 2010 6:35 PM MDT up reply actions  

I liked his hat.

Colorado Avalanche Offseason Strategy - Please wake us in October

by Hopfenkopf on Sep 11, 2010 6:35 PM MDT up reply actions  

I definitely think in real life this would have been a much more involved negotiation, which would probably be as much fun as watching Arnason play hockey paint dry. This was kind of the Lifetime Original Movie version, perhaps a little dumbed down and ribbed for your pleasure

The 8th month is the month for Wolskis

by David Driscoll-Carignan on Sep 11, 2010 6:46 PM MDT up reply actions  

Now I feel like we did a dirty thing…..

by Tom Stivali on Sep 11, 2010 8:59 PM MDT up reply actions  

yeah, that’s kind of how we roll here

The 8th month is the month for Wolskis

by David Driscoll-Carignan on Sep 11, 2010 10:50 PM MDT up reply actions  

I fully understand that (and feel the urge to smoke a post-coital ciggy). I was just wondering how PL would handle this. He’s driven some pretty hard bargains in the past (Patrick Roy comes to mind), and he knows that Lou and the Devils are over a barrel. If either Rolston or Zubris fit what he is trying to do, he can just as easily wait until they go on waivers when Lou dumps their salary to the AHL and pick one up for nothing. There’s just no win for the Avs in making a trade unless they get another major asset.

I’ll focus on Rolston. He has a $5M+ salary for the next two years, but he’s worth about $2M. What can the Devils throw in that’s worth the additional $3M/year? $3M just happens to be what the Avs would take in from one additional round of playoffs.

Running-dog lackey counter-revolutionary malcontent, Not an expert.

by Busted Twigg on Sep 11, 2010 10:52 PM MDT up reply actions  

urbom, imo, especially if we sent Cumiskey the other way. maybe their first.

by thedoctor on Sep 12, 2010 12:27 AM MDT up reply actions  

Parise? Yes, please. Oh please oh please oh please.

I just like the fights.

by Cheryl Bradley on Sep 11, 2010 6:45 PM MDT up reply actions  

I see the Parise/Zajac comments and laugh. Lou is arguably the best GM in hockey; they’re not going anywhere. The players that have a chance of going are Rolston (if he waives his NTC and someone will take him), Salvador, or Zubrus. If no trading partner can be found, Lou will most likely burry Salvador and Zubrus’ contracts in the minors. Sure, no one wants to pay a combined 6 mill for two guys playing in the AHL, but there’s always the chance someone picks them up on waivers. And the devils best prospects (outside of Tedenby who is expendable because of Parise and Kovy at LW) and top players without NTCs (Parise, Zajac) are untouchable.

by skly27 on Sep 11, 2010 7:24 PM MDT reply actions  

I see the Parise/Zajac comments and laugh.

Apparently you didn’t see the part that said this make believe. The Avs have no intention of going out and signing any big contracts. We are all painfully aware of this. In case you didn’t know, they’re still below the cap floor. Now, is signing a Parise/Zajac level player something we would LOVE to have happen? Totally different story. We’d also love to not have Koci on the team. Guess what? He is. And to get Lappy back. Ain’t gonna happen. We know the score, but it’s still fun to say, “What if?”

I just like the fights.

by Cheryl Bradley on Sep 11, 2010 8:22 PM MDT up reply actions  

With the potential the Avs have...

They may only be a Parise and a JJ away from winning the cup once the young players have completely stepped in.

by zandar on Sep 11, 2010 8:29 PM MDT up reply actions  

The players that have a chance of going are Rolston (if he waives his NTC and someone will take him), Salvador, or Zubrus. If no trading partner can be found, Lou will most likely burry Salvador and Zubrus’ contracts in the minors.

I see that comment and laugh. Sure are a lot of “ifs” in there. Unless Lou’s gotten even closer with the Devil, I’m not really sure how you convince a 37-year-old vet to leave a team that’s got a pretty good chance to contend for the Stanley Cup. And, unless Lou’s gotten even closer with the Russian mafia*, then I don’t see how he’s going to dick Zubrus over while maintaining the good will of the other Russians on the team.

You Devils fans seem to definitely want to have your cake and eat it, too. I’ll say this – if anyone can pull it off, it’s Lou, but when you list Rolston as the first guy who you think is likely to be discarded, while almost all of ILWT doesn’t think it can happen, it definitely makes me laugh.

P.S. Lou’s the fucking genius who signed Rolston to that horrible contract in the first place, and whose teams have underperformed in the playoffs – terribly – the past few years.

*This may or may not be entirely true.

You'll see all your favorite soccer stars. Like Adiaga! Adiaga two! Badiaga! Aruglia! And Pizzoza!

by Dan Winkler on Sep 11, 2010 11:31 PM MDT up reply actions  

you’re exactly right. Rolston’s going nowhere realistically. Why would he? the Devils are his best chance at a championship.

I bet it’s Salvador that’s traded for picks, or they bury Zubrus in the AHL/Europe. I just don’t see who’s trading for Zubrus, unless it’s packaged with a first like above, and I doubt the NJD do that.

by thedoctor on Sep 12, 2010 12:43 AM MDT up reply actions  

You know what sucks?

This whole “Hey, we fucking suck at cap management, sign insanely bad deals but because the players are no longer worth anywhere near the money and we’re getting too close to the cap to be able to improve, we’ll just bury the guy in the minors” shit that goes on in the NHL. I’m looking at this mostly from the player’s perspective of “Hey, I’ve dedicated my entire life to playing a game I love and being in the top league in the world but because I have a fantastic agent that got me a great deal from a moronic GM and they’re just now realizing I’m not a perennial All-Star, I have to go to places like Rockford, Houston, and Milwaukee”.

Also, as a fan of a team dry-humping the life out of the cap floor, it pisses me off to watch teams throw money around, get themselves in all kinds of trouble and then magically escape the problem by burying guys. The NHL Salary Cap should not have a Konami Code, imo.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.

by A.J. Haefele on Sep 12, 2010 5:11 AM MDT up reply actions  

I sure as hell hope this would be addressed in the upcoming CBA I seriously doubt it being GM’s like have that cheat code and I just don’t see the NHLPA giving a crap enough about it. They don’t care as long as their contract is paid out.

I say for shit like that teams have to take a 35% of cap hit still and pay that into the escrow money. Teach them to quit making bad deals the players pay for. To make it fair for guys on the bubble you have to have a cap hit of 1.5mill or above for this to apply. Because face it anyone making over that all your trying to do is bury their salary. And if not and your paying sub par quality player 1.5k you deserve more than what I would call this the retard tax.

These are all general numbers I threw out could prolly use some tweaking.

by Freakoffaleash on Sep 12, 2010 8:21 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

I kind of like this idea. It’s like the buyout, and it should be since it has the same basic objective.

Running-dog lackey counter-revolutionary malcontent, Not an expert.

by Busted Twigg on Sep 12, 2010 9:01 AM MDT up reply actions  

In all reality

Everyone but the GM’s win in that scenario and they only lose by making stupid contracts to unproven players. The players get relief from their escrow in two ways one stupid high dollar contracts would be down lowering escrow AND the GM’s stupidity helps pay into that. Players that still get retarded contracts and are buried in the minors still get paid so they can’t complain. All of this would make CBA talks with NHLPA go smoother in my opinion as salary cap in my opinion would be less of an issue with less “bad” contracts floating around.

Ah well one can always dream when he rules the world it could happen.

by Freakoffaleash on Sep 12, 2010 2:18 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

as a fan of a team dry-humping the life out of the cap floor

I love that. Gotta work it into our ad campaign somehow. “It’s all about dry-humping the life out of the cap floor.” Catchy.

On a related note, I guess the Avs allow fans to post things on their facebook wall. So I posted a comment asking why they are being so cheap with player payroll. It was up for less than a minute. I guess they monitor it pretty closely.

Your 2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Reaching Up to the Cap Floor

by Bob in Boulder on Sep 13, 2010 10:44 AM MDT up reply actions  

Well, I guess we know what their marketing personnel (likely just one person) spends her day doing.

"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny

by Dixomatic on Sep 13, 2010 11:31 AM MDT up reply actions  

You troll, you.

MHH- A drinking site with a hockey problem

Hockeytown was a marketing invention to draw fans to a team that had less gate than the atlanta thrashers.

by TheRed on Sep 13, 2010 6:04 PM MDT up reply actions  

P.S. Lou’s the fucking genius who signed Rolston to that horrible contract in the first place, and whose teams have underperformed in the playoffs – terribly – the past few years.

Rolston was coming off consecutive 30+ goal seasons on a defensive team under Lemaire. Of course he’s gonna be overpaid. Basics of economics right there; when supply is short, price goes up.

And arguably, those past few teams have all had more than enough chance to get to the ECF or even SCF, yet the players were outplayed or gave up or the coaches were outcoached. Lou is not on the ice or the bench.

If you haven’t noticed, Lou isn’t exactly beyond dicking people over. Look on wiki or ask if you’re unsure of what I mean. I’m not saying Rolston is the most likely to go; I said he’s the priority to go if someone wants him.

I realize the Devils are trading from a position of weakness. I suppose my main point is that Lou would rather piss off Salvador or Zubrus than lose Parise/Zajac/Urbom/JJ.

by skly27 on Sep 12, 2010 1:39 PM MDT up reply actions  

And arguably, those past few teams have all had more than enough chance to get to the ECF or even SCF, yet the players were outplayed or gave up or the coaches were outcoached. Lou is not on the ice or the bench.

Lou is God in New Jersey. He made the personnel decisions, he hired (and fired) the coaches, and he’s even been known to replace them with himself from time-to-time, so he is on the bench. All the success and failures (which is all the Devils have had recently) fall squarely on Lou’s big, bald, Hall of Fame head.

What I like about Lou is that when he fucks up, he’s aggressive about correcting his mistakes. I just don’t think anyone in the Devils organization, including fans in this little fake GM exercise, is in any position to laugh about any offers that they’ll receive. You better bet smart teams will try to make them bleed by asking about their best players, not only the old guys they overpaid for or the underachieving, inconsistent Russian.

You'll see all your favorite soccer stars. Like Adiaga! Adiaga two! Badiaga! Aruglia! And Pizzoza!

by Dan Winkler on Sep 12, 2010 3:56 PM MDT up reply actions  

If we were going to take on another teams payroll

Wouldn’t we rather look at Philly, Boston, etc.? They traded Gagne for a bag of pucks and he was one of the top goal scorers at LW The past 5 years. There has to be a few Flyers that would help the Avs.

by zandar on Sep 11, 2010 8:32 PM MDT reply actions  

We got short end on both deals

While both deals would make us marginally better but worth the major money we pay for them. They wouldn’t take us farther than we are already going which if we are going to take anyone’s cap hit that is what I would mandate. Give us both for say holos or cohen and some other prospect I would go for it.

by Freakoffaleash on Sep 11, 2010 8:42 PM MDT via mobile reply actions  

I want to see Holo’s play before we give him away…

And They Shall Know No Fear.

by i2strange97 on Sep 11, 2010 9:59 PM MDT up reply actions  

Me too I which is why I threw in or cohen but with his potential I think we should be giving them something but no offense to David but you have to remember we are the ones doing them a favor we have hit our cap floor we don’t NEED anything from them they NEED us to clear cap space. If more GM’s thought this way I think this going over the cap stuff would be a lot less frequent because going over means they are generally crippling themselves by getting short end of stick in long run. They either have to bury NHL caliber players in AHL or take a deal where they are losing in talent or put in gambles. Unfortunately it seems this doesn’t happen often if at all.

by Freakoffaleash on Sep 12, 2010 8:05 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

5mil in cap space= a hell of a lot. just don’t see it there.

Homer no function beer well without.

by An Unmitigated Disaster on Sep 11, 2010 9:54 PM MDT reply actions  

random thought about something more realistic

would you claim Rolston on re-entry waivers (half cap hit, half salary, devils pay the rest)? I think I would.

by thedoctor on Sep 12, 2010 7:44 PM MDT reply actions  

Yeah, I would. I said earlier that he was worth about $2M. $2.5 is close enough. I’m not much of a Devils fan, so having them take cap hit and salary for my new player would fill me with evil joy. Not as sure about Zubris. That extra contract year would make me think twice.

Running-dog lackey counter-revolutionary malcontent, Not an expert.

by Busted Twigg on Sep 12, 2010 8:51 PM MDT up reply actions  

I hope someday my boss signs me for an extra $500,000 and says, “close enough.”

"Half the game is mental; the other half is being mental." -- Jim McKenny

by Dixomatic on Sep 13, 2010 11:32 AM MDT up reply actions  

Now accepting applications for all positions.

Running-dog lackey counter-revolutionary malcontent, Not an expert.

by Busted Twigg on Sep 13, 2010 2:07 PM MDT up reply actions  

I might take Rolston to use as an asset at the trade deadline for a team that’s contending for the playoffs (which we won’t be). It would be crappy for Rolston, though, to go from a top 3 team in the East to a bottom 3 team in the West. Why would we do it? What would we have to gain? We’ve already thrown in the towel for the season decided to build from within, so what’s the point?

I guess I don’t understand the concern about that extra year for Zubrus (I know it wasn’t your comment, Doc). His total contract is worth only 200K more than Rolston’s, but you get the player for an extra year.

You'll see all your favorite soccer stars. Like Adiaga! Adiaga two! Badiaga! Aruglia! And Pizzoza!

by Dan Winkler on Sep 12, 2010 10:19 PM MDT up reply actions  

In Lou We Trust has a good write-up on the Rolston situation and re-entry waivers.

I took a peek at the CBA last night, and I don’t think you are allowed to trade a player picked up on waivers in the year of the pick-up.

My issue with Zubris is adding a veteran contract that extends past the Avs contract dead zone of 2011-2012. They will have signed a bunch of RFAs after this season and maybe extended potential UFAs. Another pile of RFAs and UFAs land in 2012 and a $3.4M (or $1.7M shared) hit for a player on a career downslope would be wasted space. Whereas Rolston’s hit from re-entry waivers would be done in 2012. IMO, the shorter contract fits the Avs better.

Running-dog lackey counter-revolutionary malcontent, Not an expert.

by Busted Twigg on Sep 13, 2010 9:11 AM MDT up reply actions  

not to mention Rolston’s NTC persists through a waiver claim.

Zubrus is also nearly as overpaid as Rolston. Rolston at least has been putting up 20g…Zubrus is more around 10.

by thedoctor on Sep 13, 2010 9:22 AM MDT up reply actions  

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