It's All About the Extension
We're only two games into the season, so it's still way too early to formulate an opinion on what we're going to see on the ice this year. But one thing we do know: it's going to be a really interesting year off the ice. Of the 25 players currently on the roster, a grand total of 7 are signed beyond the end of this season (and just one of them - Paul Stastny - was with the team at this point last season). 9 players are eligible to be UFAs this summer, including Milan Hejduk, David Jones and Daniel Winnik. And 9 more are slated for RFA. And that's where the biggest names come in.
With apologies to Ryan O'Reilly, Peter Mueller and Kyle Quincey, the two names that matter here are, absolutely, Matt Duchene and Erik Johnson. Both cornerstone players have contracts expiring on July 1st, and it is a safe bet that their agents and the Avalanche brain trust will be getting together in a Holiday Inn conference room sometime this fall...if they haven't already.
On paper, neither negotiation should be difficult. In much the same way as Paul Stastny's contract was comparable to that of Anze Kopitar's, both Duchene and Johnson have had their contract bar set by recent deals. For Duchene, there's probably no NHL player more comparable in terms of service, talent and performance than his 2009 draft counterpart John Tavares. The two forwards were taken 1st and 3rd overall and both have 163 games of service through yesterday. Duchene has 51 goals and 123 points; Tavares has 51 and 121. You can't get much closer than that. Tavares recently signed a 6-year, $33 million deal - a $5.5 million cap hit. That would be the likely end target for a Duchene deal even if he and Tavares didn't share the same agent (Pat Brisson).
Johnson - another Brisson client - also has a barometer. To me, the young defenseman who matches up most with Johnson is Tyler Myers. Myers is a big defenseman taken 12th overall in 2008. To date, he has 85 points in 164 games. Johnson, of course, is also a big defenseman, taken 1st overall in his draft year (2006). To date, he has 101 points in 227 games. It's not a perfect match - Johnson is 3 years from unrestricted free agency, while Myers was 5 years away. But, I think it's close enough (certainly closer than, say, Drew Doughty). Myers recently signed a 7 year, $38.5 million deal - also a $5.5 million cap hit. Johnson will probably be looking for a shorter deal, though; he won't give away more than a couple of UFA years at that salary level. And there's no way the revenue-poor Avalanche will give Johnson (or Duchene) a $10 million "lockout protection bonus" like the Sabres did with Myers. My guess: 5 years, $27 million.
The Avalanche have been telling us for a couple of years that they were being cautious on the free agency market to make sure they had room to lock up their star players down the road. Well, here's the first opportunity to spend all those savings. The Avs need to lock up their young guns for the next few years, and should start with Duchene and Johnson. Let's hope these negotiations go well; we don't really have room for Brian Elliott any more.
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Star player pay for role player performance. I wish the same salary rules applied in the real world. I’d be a billionaire by now.
Mile High Hockey: A lot more fun to watch than the Avalanche.
by Joe Dunman on Oct 12, 2011 9:09 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Hell, I’m an entire “department.” But get paid as an individual. Sucky
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Varlamov? Here's hoping...
Also worth noting: the Avs are willing to vastly overpay talented young players with little on-ice consistency and STILL can’t get above the salary floor.
Mile High Hockey: A lot more fun to watch than the Avalanche.
I bet Johnson takes a 1 year extension, thinking he can put up two good years in a row (this and next) then signs an extension for big $$ taking him out of UFA for a couple of year. Duchene should get what Tavares got.
Chip, I'm gonna come at you like a spider monkey!
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Oct 12, 2011 9:18 AM MDT reply actions
Give EJ his money, then dock his pay for every turnove
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Varlamov? Here's hoping...
*turnover
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Varlamov? Here's hoping...
which is what you do in the entertaning booths when you want to hit the other side
I am the most humble blogger of all time
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Oct 12, 2011 9:20 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
this is how I pay waiters
not really. But when I used to go see my college buddies waiting tables my roomate and I used to put a stack of quarters on the table and say “This is your tip. Every time you do something I don’t like i’m taking one back” Good laughs.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Oct 12, 2011 10:41 AM MDT up reply actions
Ha I’ve done that with friends too. Always fun to fuck with your friends.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
yeah, i have done that with a stack of ones at a strip club. HAHA.
OH , yeah…restaurant I meant
by Avalanchefan86 on Oct 12, 2011 1:55 PM MDT up reply actions
It’s hard to argue against the Tavares money for Matty, but EJ could be signed for less with a shorter term. Myer’s contract was influenced by his outstanding year a couple seasons back and EJ hasn’t really had one of those.
Laughter and tears are both responses to frustration and exhaustion. I myself prefer to laugh, since there is less cleaning up to do afterward. - Kv
by MalachiConstant on Oct 12, 2011 9:41 AM MDT reply actions
It’s also concerning that EJ was probably our worst defenseman against the wheel in the opener. Looked very shaky with the puck at times and didn’t stand out defensively either. He looked better against Boston.
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Oct 12, 2011 9:47 AM MDT up reply actions
I would argue against Tavares money for Tavares, and by extension, for Duchene as well. But the precedent has been set, so the Avs are pretty much stuck.
Mile High Hockey: A lot more fun to watch than the Avalanche.
The term would likely have to be quite a bit shorter if the respective teams wanted to pay less money for either player. Stastny’s deal doesn’t help as an example either.
Laughter and tears are both responses to frustration and exhaustion. I myself prefer to laugh, since there is less cleaning up to do afterward. - Kv
by MalachiConstant on Oct 12, 2011 10:07 AM MDT up reply actions
Definitely. In principle, I don’t care if teams want to overpay underperforming “stars” if that’s their prerogative. But when they’ve got tons of room under the salary cap, I think they should also overpay actual stars.
Mile High Hockey: A lot more fun to watch than the Avalanche.
Remember if the Avs sign Duchene under the new CBA, Tavares’ contract may matter much much less.
LANDESKOG!!!!!
How Swede it is
by Cole D Hamilton on Oct 12, 2011 11:07 AM MDT up reply actions
Do anyone think anybody will get a really long term deal. Something like 8 or 10 years.
Our Johnson is bigger and better than LA's Johnson so suck it.
How in the world is either side going to negotiate Mueller’s contract?
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Oct 12, 2011 10:58 AM MDT reply actions
I was wondering the same thing. He’s going to have to be 100% all year for anything reasonable. It’s bound to just be a one yearer.
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: a mean, junkyard dog looking for revenge
by Cheryl Bradley on Oct 12, 2011 11:12 AM MDT up reply actions
Is anyone else getting a “Message from webpage” box on their screen containing “250” in it on SB Nation today? I am getting it quite frequently. Only on SB Nation, as far as I can tell.
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Oct 12, 2011 11:27 AM MDT reply actions
Yes
Laughter and tears are both responses to frustration and exhaustion. I myself prefer to laugh, since there is less cleaning up to do afterward. - Kv
by MalachiConstant on Oct 12, 2011 11:28 AM MDT up reply actions
Could it be Video Lock Error warming up for tonight’s game?
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Oct 12, 2011 11:30 AM MDT up reply actions
After this year
We will have 20.5 mil into the 7 guys we have signed beyond next year. That leaves us with roughly 44 mil to spend on resigning players and free agents. So lets say we lock Duchene up for what Taveras makes, that takes the cap space down to 38.5 min. Then we’ll say EJ gets the 5 year 30 mil deal which is what a 6 mil cap hit? That takes us fown to 32.5 mil remaining. Then we’ll get O’reilly at say 3 years 3 mil per so that takes us down to 29.5 mil. Say we resign Mueller to what he was making before at 2 mil a year. Now were at 27.5 mil. Then we resign Quincey Wilson and O’brien for a combined 6 mil which brings us down to 21 mil roughly in cap space. Then lets say we resign Yip Galiardi, Porter and Lindstrom for a combined 5 or 6 mil bringing us to 15 mil and then sign Duke to another 1 year 3 mil deal bringin us to 12 mil in cap space to spend on free agents to help bolster our young core. That gives us a nice amount to throw at say a Zach Parise, or a Dustin Penner or even a RFA is one of them isn’t resigned. Should be interesting.
MOZGOD Enthusiast Member 71
Original Thugget Loyalists Member 71
TyRay Felson for MVP!
Enos does not know of this “cap space” of which you speak. What will it take to keep us over the floor?
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Oct 12, 2011 11:41 AM MDT up reply actions
on the "non-roster" front,
I’m glad all the relevant players are signed for at least a few years: Siemens, Hishon, Elliott, Pickard, Barrie till 2014. For those the pending free agents, I’d like to get Bordeleau signed for depth, and especially Desjardins as well.
Go Avaranche!
by Sean Harsha on Oct 12, 2011 11:41 AM MDT up reply actions
/start White Knight entrance theme
I have been saying this. After they re-sign those players, I think they will assess their holes and start signing. The signing will be smart depending on the CBA, but they NEED to spend on the core and will augment the core with some talent.
It makes so much business sense and this next summer falls perfectly in the investment model I ran if you treat the team like a business venture.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
This model must assume that there’s no lockout over the CBA next year. I can imagine a number of bad scenarios that could play out if the Avs are struggling to get everyone signed under the threat or reality of a lockout.
In Sherman we trust
by Busted Twigg on Oct 12, 2011 1:38 PM MDT up reply actions
Maybe half of their roster will sign up to play in China. As has happened with the Nugs.
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Oct 12, 2011 1:43 PM MDT up reply actions
China, Siberia, what’s the difference?
In Sherman we trust
by Busted Twigg on Oct 12, 2011 1:46 PM MDT up reply actions
I think both the owners and the players know that another lock out would be death to the league. It’s just really gaining momentum again. I would bet a lot of money against one happening.
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: a mean, junkyard dog looking for revenge
by Cheryl Bradley on Oct 12, 2011 1:58 PM MDT up reply actions
I just hope we resign some of the guys before the end of the season. I don’t want to be bidding against (or losing out to) other teams for someone like Mueller because he is 8th on the call list to offer a contract and 2 other teams have already called. Especially since you know there is always some team (like a Florida) that will give a stupid offer and drive the price up.
Our Johnson is bigger and better than LA's Johnson so suck it.
negative nancy alert: I have a growing suspicion that by the time we get to June, we won’t be lamenting losing Mueller.
I am the most humble blogger of all time
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Oct 12, 2011 2:56 PM MDT up reply actions
Is he back yet?
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Oct 12, 2011 3:03 PM MDT up reply actions
no
I am the most humble blogger of all time
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Oct 12, 2011 3:13 PM MDT up reply actions
I think we’ll know by January which Mueller cam back. If he’s showing real improvement in the second half, they’ll sign him based on the improvement. Otherwise…
In Sherman we trust
by Busted Twigg on Oct 12, 2011 3:13 PM MDT up reply actions
otherwise, it’s all about Lindstrom?
Chip, I'm gonna come at you like a spider monkey!
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Oct 12, 2011 4:59 PM MDT up reply actions
And his imaginary awesomeness that is only rivaled by that of Holos. Norwegian for “minor league healthy scratch,” by the way.
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Oct 13, 2011 9:25 AM MDT up reply actions
I’m not even going to start thinking about this until next April or May.
Watching the folks over at Jewels from the Crown twist in the wind over Doughty for the past month or so was excruciating.
No soup for you!
I appreciate that this is an in-depth conversation between some very intelligent and knowledgeable hockey minds about a subject that is very much at the front of our minds as we progress towards this important offseason.
It’s All About the Extension
Tee hee – TWSS
Enjoy the power and beauty of your youth. Oh, never mind. You will not understand the power and beauty of your youth until they've faded. - Kurt Vonegut
ExtenZ for everyone! On the House!
In Sherman we trust
by Busted Twigg on Oct 12, 2011 3:14 PM MDT up reply actions
This “250” thing is annoying. Tell your people to get on it DDC.
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
Not seeing it on a Win7 system with Firefox.
In Sherman we trust
by Busted Twigg on Oct 12, 2011 3:15 PM MDT up reply actions
Win7 with IE8 for me. And I’m seeing it a plenty.
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Oct 12, 2011 3:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Chrome is the wave of the future.
Chip, I'm gonna come at you like a spider monkey!
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Oct 12, 2011 5:00 PM MDT up reply actions
I tried it. Still prefer Firefox
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Oct 12, 2011 5:46 PM MDT up reply actions
I tried it. Still prreferred Firefox. Tried it again just as a light weight, quick use browser. Now it’s all I use at home.
Laughter and tears are both responses to frustration and exhaustion. I myself prefer to laugh, since there is less cleaning up to do afterward. - Kv
by MalachiConstant on Oct 13, 2011 7:28 AM MDT up reply actions
I’m leaning towards going back to FF too. I find it much easier than Chrome.
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: a mean, junkyard dog looking for revenge
by Cheryl Bradley on Oct 13, 2011 3:36 PM MDT up reply actions

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