The Lurker's Guide to the Avs' Coaches and Management
On any team, the support staff is often just as important as the players to the success of the organization. The Avs are no exception. This group of people is often overlooked, but their experiences and decisions play a vital role in the shaping of this club.
The makeup of the Avs' management and coaching staff is very family-centric, for better or worse. This applies in two ways: first, the literal meaning (there are two father/son pairings very, very high up in the organization) and the other, a more symbolic one (the majority of our staff members were either promoted through the Avs' ranks or donned a burgundy and blue sweater at some point). The term "Building from Within", used by General Manager Greg Sherman to describe the process of drafting and developing the future Avs stars instead of trading for them later on, can also be used to describe the Avs way of thinking when it comes to off-ice personnel. In some ways, this is a good thing - it makes the organization a worker-friendly one because promotions are handed out fairly regularly, but it also may limit the Avs in terms of new ideas and ways of approaching problems. It's possible this mentality helped contribute to the traditional secrecy of the organization, but the secretive personalities in charge of the Avalanche may have something to do with that was well.
Another important thing to note is that the management (and really, the team as a whole) can be divided into 2 eras: Pre-2009 and Post-2009. After the "season that did not exist" ('08-'09) and the retirement of Sakic, the team ended up in the cellar of the Western Conference. Since then, almost everyone in a major position (besides the President) has been replaced. There was even a slight transition of owners in the summer of 2010. When this team talks about rebuilding, they don't just mean with the players. The front office staff and the coaches are new too. Top to bottom, this is an organization essentially entering its third season, despite the fact it's been in Colorado for 16. However, the management has shown that it has learned from its past success and mistakes - the first 13 years of the Colorado Avalanche are not ignored, even though they are clearly a thing of the past.
This organization also tends to play things very close to the vest. Over the past year, the management has made an effort to open up and keep the fans more informed, but the old saying is "if you hear about an Avs trade, then it isn't going to happen". Trades, when they do come, are often huge and catch people off-guard because the Avs never let on when they're up to something. It's that way with everything (determining the Captaincy, moving players down the AHL or calling them up, free agent signings) - everything is very hush-hush. It's a very different dynamic than many teams have, and it does take some getting used to. It's also a fairly common source of frustration for the fans.
However, the first step in understanding this very secretive organization is to understand the people in charge. After the jump, there's a breakdown of all the major behind-the-scenes players of the Avalanche. Just strap yourself in - it's a long one.
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The Owners: Kroenke Sports Enterprises and Stan and Josh Kroenke
Enos Stanley "Stan" Kroenke started out in real estate after graduating from the University of Missouri in 1973. That same year, while on vacation in Aspen, he met and later married the heiress to a still-small Midwest retail chain called "Wal-mart". After he got his degree, he started to work with a successful retail developer in Missouri on the construction of Walmarts and the surrounding lots. He split and went into business on his own in 1985, and found himself on the Walmart board of directors from 1995 to 2000.
Kroenke has always had a passion for sports. He played basketball in high school, and even to this day is a self-described fitness nut. In 1994, he convinced the Los Angeles Rams to move to St. Louis and bought a minority stake in the organization. However, he remained fairly unknown until 2000, when the Denver Nuggets, Colorado Avalanche, and the newly constructed Pepsi Center were in dire need of a new owner. Ascent Entertainment, the tv company that had originally purchased the then Quebec Nordiques in 1995 and moved them to Colorado, had been basically pushed out of business by Comcast. Due to the money crunch, their shareholders pressured them to put the teams and their recently completed arena on the market. The teams and arena bounced around from owner to owner for a while before Stan Kroenke finally wrote a $420 million check.
Since then, he's purchased the Colorado Mammoth lacrosse team (2002), the now defunct Colorado Crush arena football team (2004), the Colorado Rapids soccer team (2004), Arsenal, an English Premier League soccer team (10% ownership acquired in 2007, built up gradually to majority ownership in 2011), and built Dick's Sporting Goods Park (2004-07). In 2004, he founded Altitude Sports and Entertainment, the TV channel that broadcasts all his Colorado teams' games, and TicketHorse, the company that distributes the teams' tickets. In 2010, he purchased the majority stake in the St. Louis Rams, but since the NFL prohibits owners from owning sports teams in other NFL markets (the Colorado teams are obviously in the Broncos market), he is required to sell his majority stakes in the clubs by 2014.
What is a billionaire to do? Why, sell them to his son of course.
Josh Kroenke was grew up in Columbia, MO and was primarily a basketball player, although he dabbled in just about every sport but football. He decided to follow in his father's footsteps and attend the University of Missouri (Mizzou), but on a basketball scholarship. His playing time fluctuated greatly and he caught a lot of crap for being the Walmart heir there on scholarship. So, after college, he left the Midwest and worked for Lehman Brothers in New York before deciding to get into the family business in 2007. He spent time in both the Avs and Nuggets front offices before becoming the President of the Denver Nuggets and the owner of both teams. He is now also the official Governor of the Colorado Avalanche.
Both Kroenkes are known for their work ethic and very "down to earth" personalities. They aren't very well known - in fact, Stan's nickname is "Silent Stan" because he rarely gives interviews, and Josh has been asked to show his ID badge in the back hallways of the Pepsi Center during Nuggets games. Stan doesn't meddle much in the day-to-day operations of his teams, and Josh has been accused of concentrating more on the Nuggets than the Avs. However, with the NBA in lockout right now, the Avalanche is the only team on Josh's plate.
Despite the owners being called cheap SOBs economical by many of the Avs fans, 65% of the Avs' players, as well as the head coach, are up for contract renewals this year. The Kroenkes are businessmen - they know when and where to invest money. If they don't pony up to keep the young core together, then yes, they should be ripped apart. But the team is in the middle of a rebuild right now. Keeping the carrying cost low while figuring out what assets they actually have is a pretty wise business strategy. Even though Josh Kroenke may be more interested in the Nuggets than the Avs, he probably still wants his hockey club to be profitable and not divert funds from the basketball team. The Kroenkes have promised that the Avs will stick around in Denver until 2025. One would think that they'd like to make some money off them in the time in between, but we'll know more about their intentions after next summer.
All in the Family: Pierre and Eric Lacroix
Pierre Lacroix, a Quebecois from Montreal, got his start as a highly successful sports agent. He then joined the Nordiques as their General Manager in 1994 and followed the team to Denver a year later. He was the guy responsible for crafting the teams that won the Cups in '96 and '01. To say he was never afraid of a big trade would be an understatement. After all, he was the one that pushed the Roy, Bourque, and Blake trades through. He continued to serve as the Avs GM until 2006, when he passed the title off to Francois Giguere and took over the role of President and Alternate Governor.
His son, Eric, played for the Avs from '96-'97 to '98-'99. He was never a hall of famer, but he played 8 seasons and over 450 games in the NHL as a left wing. After he left the NHL, he worked in the Avs' hockey operations department, then moved to Arizona and was the co-owner and assistant coach of the CHL Arizona Sundogs (who were the CHL champions in 2008 under his tenure). After that, he became a pro scout for the Phoenix Coyotes. In 2009, he decided to come back to the Avs and currently serves as the Director of Hockey Operations.
Greg Sherman, General Manager and Executive Vice President
Even though he was born in Scranton, PA, Greg Sherman is a Denver boy who graduated from Cheery Creek High School. He earned his bachelor's degree from the University of San Diego in '92 and joined the Avs organization in '96. He worked his way up through the ranks and served as an Assistant General Manager for 7 years, mostly negotiating contacts and working with salary cap management. After Roy turned down the vacant GM position in 2009 after Francois Giguere was fired, Sherman, a highly unlikely candidate (Dater had him at about a 10% chance of getting the job), was hired. Even to this day, he's still seen as more of an accountant than a true hockey guy, and he's arguably the most unknown GM in the media-saturated NHL. However, this may not make him a bad one.
At the time of his hiring, the Avs had $43 million (a major amount of the allowable payroll) going to only 13 players, 7 of whom were over 30 years old and not producing many points at all (Darcy Tucker). They had just finished at the bottom of the Western Conference. Sakic was done, and the future of the Avs was in question. One thing for sure was that it was time to clean house. Pierre Lacroix took care of most of it - firing Giguere, head coach Granato, and a number of other management people, then hiring Sherman, Sacco, and others (like his son) to fill the vacant positions all within a very short period of time. Overpaid players were also dropped, and new ones - young ones - were brought in via the draft.
Sherman was seen as a figure head for Lacroix - holding the title while Lacroix pulled the strings. However, in the next few years, one could argue that it became more of a partnership. Sherman is better with salaries, Lacroix better with player analysis. Put the two together in the rebuilding situation the Avs are in right now, and it's perhaps the best solution possible. Lacroix is the hockey guy - he excelled in the pre-salary cap era because when he saw a player with talent, he went out and got them no matter what. That mentality is what caused the extreme overpaying that the Avs experienced in 2009. Sherman, on the other hand, tempers that and makes sure payroll stays low while the Avs are building their core. He's much more of a businessman, figuring out risk-to-gain scenarios. He's perhaps the least flashy GM in the league, and people tend to judge him for that. However, they forget that Lacroix is still around, quietly overseeing everything. The last few major trades (Johnson, Varlamov) have shown this - they're gutsy and very Lacroix-esque in scale, but they're also budget-friendly career reclamation projects with moderate- to high-risk but enormous gains if they pan out.
Sherman by himself would probably not make a great GM. But Sherman + Lacroix + now Sakic could be a very potent combo. Like the players on their team, there is more talent and skill in the Avs front office than they are given credit for. Sherman is still new to the job - this will only be his third season - but he's made some pretty smart moves so far. If one of the major trades goes south, he may be scapegoated by the rest of the organization, but his track-record to this point is at least decent and could get even better as the young players he's brought in continue to mature and improve.
Long story short: Don't write Sherman off as a failure yet. There's a very balanced management running the Avs right now as more of a business than a purely hockey club. When it's time to spend, they'll spend, but they'll do it in a way that maximizes performance instead of just spending for spending's sake (here's looking at you, Toronto and Florida).
Sakic's Back in Town
Part of the front office equation just joined this summer. Super Joe Sakic, long time captain and anchor of the entire pre-2009 Avalanche franchise, came back to the organization and is now the Executive Advisor and an Alternate Governor. Even though his exact duties are a little ambiguous, one thing is for sure - he'll be offering Sherman opinions on the game from a player's point of view. He knows just as much as Lacroix on which players are needed to create a successful team, but he has a unique locker-room perspective instead of a solely talent-based one. Expect to see traces of that in the moves that the Avs make from now on.
Also, it appears as if Sakic is being groomed to take over the post of GM. However, when Super Joe talks about learning the "business side of hockey", there is no greater mentor in the organization than Greg Sherman. In the post-lockout NHL, teams have to be run like a business due to the salary cap, but the knowledge of how to effectively do that can be taught in a relatively short amount of time. The knowledge Sakic brings to the table, as well as the brand name - everybody knows who Joe Sakic is - is something that can't be duplicated. A change will probably come eventually, but don't expect it before next summer. If the trades from last year pan out, Sherman will probably stay on a while longer, at least until the rebuild is over. Sakic will almost certainly be the Avs GM at some point, but just like the young players coming into the league, it's best if he is mentored a while before taking over the position.
In Pracey We Trust
Rick Pracey, the Avs' head scout, started his hockey career in the OHL as a goalie for the Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds. He only played one season and 10 games with them, but during that time, he was a teammate of a prominent young defenseman named Adam Foote. After that, Pracey bounced around from league to league (including some college time) for the next few years, playing only one game at the AHL level. He never played in the NHL. However, after retiring in '98, he came back as a scout for the OHL in 2000. He joined the Avs soon after and was a scout of the organization by the 2001 draft. He worked his way up through the ranks and became the Avs' chief scout prior to the 2009 draft, replacing Ted Hampson.
Up to that point, the Avs hadn't put much stress on the draft - they were a team designed to "win now", not 10 years from now. When the bottom fell out from under them in '08-'09 and they didn't have any prospects to replace their aging players, drafting instantly became a top priority. Pracey is one of the primary reasons the Avs' rebuild has gone so smoothly. Not only does he get the top picks right (let's be honest - even a blind ostrich could have picked Duchene at #3), but he finds talent deeper in the draft as well. He goes against the grain and relies completely on his scout's reports, often snagging players that have fallen out of favor due to injury (such as 2010's brilliant first round pick of Joey Hishon).
Not many hockey fans care too much who their chief scout is. Fewer still can name them. But around here especially, Rich Pracey is held in very high regard. He has shown enough competence in three short years that when an Avs fans have doubts about a draft pick, they'll shrug it off with an "In Pracey We Trust". He is extremely well respected by the fanbase and is talked about quite often around MHH and the Avalanche community.
Coaches and the Phenomenon of "Building from Within"
Joe Sacco, the head coach, does not enjoy the instant acceptance of his moves that Pracey does. "The Other Joe" was drafted #71 overall by the Maple Leafs in the '87 draft. He played right wing for Boston University and a whole set of NHL teams (none of them the Avs) before retiring in 2003. Two years after he stopped playing, he accepted a head coaching job with the Avs' newly-created AHL affiliate, the Lake Erie Monsters, and coached them to two decent seasons considering the lack of talent on the roster. He was promoted to the Avs head coaching position in the summer of 2009 and led the team to an unlikely playoff appearance (Anderson playing like a beast helped). He was named a finalist for the Jack Adams Award (best NHL coach), but lost to Dave Tippett of the Phoenix Coyotes. Things were looking up for Skipper Joe.
Then 2010-11 happened.
The first half of the season went really well. The team was running a fast break system that took advantage of the speed of both the Avs' forwards and blueliners. Even though their GAA was terrible, it didn't matter because they were leading the league in Goals For and winning their games. But in late December, the LA Kings showed the hockey world how to neutralize the Avs' offense. Instead of switching to a different gameplan, Sacco and the players kept running the same one and got owned for the rest of the season. The ineffective plays, combined with the ungodly amount of injuries the team sustained, were enough to cause that second-half tail spin. Sacco went from the golden boy of the organization to public enemy #1 in the eyes of the fanbase (well, maybe public enemy #2 after Brian Elliott). If Sacco doesn't improve his record this year, he'll be looking for a new job very soon.
Now, it should be said that Head Coaches often receive both more praise and more blame than they actually deserve. I personally think Sacco is a pretty decent coach who is simply inexperienced. He had to deal with a lot of stuff in his sophomore season that he just wasn't prepared for. He's a player's coach - most of them really seem to love him - but there was only so much he could do to motivate them last year. Give him a few years and he'll be just fine. Besides, stability in the coaching position is sometimes more valuable than experience. Still, when a team needs a scapegoat, the coach is often the first one to go.
But not all the coaching blame can be placed on Sacco. Over the past two years, he had two assistant coaches: Steve Konowalchuk and Sylvain Lefebvre, both former Avs. Defenseman Sylvain Lefebvre made the jump with the franchise from Quebec to Colorado and won the Cup with the team in '96. He was later traded to the Rangers and retired in '04. A year later, he was Sacco's assistant coach in Lake Erie and made the jump to coaching his former team in '09 and has been there since.
Konowalchuk played LW for the Avs in '03-'04 and '05-'06. He graduated to the assistant coaching position in 2009 after working in the Avs' player development department, but left this summer to coach the Seattle Thunderbirds of the WHL. His replacement, Adam Deadmarsh, also is a former Av - this time a RW. He too made the jump from Quebec to Colorado and won the Cup in '96, but was traded mid-season in '00-'01. After he retired, he became the Avs' video coach and was promoted to the position of Assistant Coach this summer.
Kirk McLean joined up with the Avs in 2010 and is starting his second season as their part-time goaltending coach. He played goalie for a number of NHL teams over a 16 year span, but spent most of his time with the Canucks where his still is the most winningest goaltender in their history. When he isn't helping our netminders, he's running a restaurant in Vancouver called "McLean's" and also owns a Junior team in the BCHL. The fact that the Avs' don't have a full-time goalie coach is a very hot-button topic right now, especially with the steep priced paid to get the young and still-in-need-of-guidance Semyon Varlamov. It's a problem. With any luck, the Avs will fix that problem soon. If Sacco is fired, given the Avs history, there is a chance that Patrick Roy could be offered the head coaching job. If that does in fact happen, a goalie coach would become much less important. However, until that point, it's still a major concern that the entire fanbase is hoping gets addressed as soon as possible.
To sum it up, the Avs not only have one of the inexperienced teams in the NHL, they have one of the most inexperienced coaching staffs as well. Pierre Lacroix and Milan Hejduk are the only true veterans ANYWHERE in the organization, and that's not going to help the coaches all that much. Everybody's learning as they go and mistakes will be made. But this is a big year. For Sacco especially, it's do or die. If he can come up with a winning season and prove he has what it takes to be an NHL coach, he'll be sticking around for a while. If he doesn't, it's bye-bye Sacco and hello David Quinn (LEM's current coach), Roy, or some other former Av/person in the system.
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Great article.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
by c6hor8 on Oct 6, 2011 8:11 AM MDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Thanks. I had to do a lot of research for it to fill in the gaps in my knowledge. Most of it was pretty easy to find, but it took me 45 minutes to figure out when Pracey started as our chief scout. All that research, plus almost 4000 words, made this take awhile.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who <3s the Avs.
The work paid off
It's all about the O'
by SteveHouse on Oct 6, 2011 8:44 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Your work is much appreciated. It is a great article. Thanks Andi.
by MalachiConstant on Oct 6, 2011 8:51 AM MDT up reply actions
Going for irony?
Not many hockey fans care too much who their chief scout is. Fewer still can name them. But around here especially, Rich Pracey…
Otherwise, awesome depth piece. I’ve really enjoyed this series.
In Sherman we trust
Sylvain Lefebvre wasn’t traded to the New York Rangers. They signed him as a free agent in the summer of 1999, along with Theo Fleury and Valeri Kamensky.
Craig Billington
This was a fantastic article. Thanks for the write up! One person I think that needs to be mentioned in all of this is Craig Billington. Back when the front office was replaced, I remember that Sherm was touted as the business guy, and Craig was touted as the hockey guy. From the early days of this current front office, I got the sense that it was more Craig than Pierre making the hockey decisions. I think that Pierre is more an adviser to these two than actively involved in making the decisions. (This is sort of backed up by all of the public comments made, but this is the Avs, so… yeah)
His official title on the Avs website is Vice President of Player Development. If that’s all he’s doing, he sure deserves some credit for that, too. I haven’t been disappointed by the players that are being developed.
by Hoss Boniventure on Oct 6, 2011 9:59 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
When it’s time to spend, they’ll spend,
What exactly are you basing this on?
Chip, I'm gonna come at you like a spider monkey!
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Oct 6, 2011 10:12 AM MDT reply actions
Logical business model. Enos has run the as such and the guy knows to turn a profit. It makes economic sense to spend and the right time. He’s a billionaire because he knows how to turn huge profits, not mediocre ones.
Cue White Knight Theme Song
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
by c6hor8 on Oct 6, 2011 10:47 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
You’re my hero ….
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Oct 6, 2011 10:55 AM MDT up reply actions
So hope? Logic? Nothing tangible.
Chip, I'm gonna come at you like a spider monkey!
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Oct 6, 2011 11:32 AM MDT up reply actions
In the same way investing in a stock or rebuilding a company has an intangible plan the yes. Nothing tangible. Except the private business model that almost every sports team has. The Avs’ happens to have been designed by a billionaire businessman.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
by c6hor8 on Oct 6, 2011 12:31 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I’ll believe they will spend some money when they actually do. Until then I’ll be skeptical. But they’re leaning more towards being the Monforts then Pat Bowlen.
Chip, I'm gonna come at you like a spider monkey!
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Oct 6, 2011 2:30 PM MDT up reply actions
Cue White Knight Theme Song
I keep hearing the heroic music from “MP and the Holy Grail.”
In Sherman we trust
by Busted Twigg on Oct 6, 2011 11:39 AM MDT up reply actions
Ask andidee what time it is, she’ll tell you how to build a watch.
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Oct 6, 2011 12:00 PM MDT up reply actions
Nope.
I’ll start by asking you what time zone you’re in and whether or not it has daylight savings time going on. Then I’ll probably find that time based off the atomic clock readings via the internet, input that data into a spreadsheet, and tell you what time it is not only where you are, but around the world. I might also be able to tell you what time of day it is – morning, evening, or night – based on local sunrise/sunset data.
Telling you how to build a watch doesn’t involve nearly enough spreadsheets.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who <3s the Avs.
Brad Smith
Any Avalanche fan that wants to know about the inner workings of the Avalanche should know about Brad Smith. He’s been a huge player in that smoke-filled back room.
He is the first guy Sherman mentioned in is introductory press conference when he listed “hockey guys” in the back room.
Brad Smith is the Avalanche legend that most Avalanche fans know nothing about. I suspect he likes it that way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Smith_(ice_hockey)
http://avalanche.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=32610
At the start of the 1995–96 season, Smith became a scout for the Colorado Avalanche. There, he enjoyed perhaps his finest moment, deconstructing Scotty Bowman’s left-wing lock during the 1996 playoffs and neutralizing it as Colorado beat the favoured Red Wings and went on to win the Stanley Cup. “Smith noticed the Red Wings’ left wingers, who stayed back to help the defense, were small,” The Sporting News reported. “So the Avalanche made sure to softly dump the puck into the right corner, where the Avs’ forwards pounced. This wore down Detroit’s left wingers.” Colorado won the series, and by the time the Avalanche swept the Florida Panthers in the finals, Detroit general manager Ken Holland was publicly crediting Smith with that key assist in Colorado’s successful run. The Avalanche won another cup in 2001, and Smith’s name is now engraved on the Stanley Cup. He currently serves as the Avalanche Director of Player Personnel.
I'll keep this brief.
by Dario on Oct 6, 2011 12:01 PM MDT reply actions 3 recs
Very interesting stuff, Dario. I wonder if he’s behind to move to bigger, punishing D-men?
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Oct 6, 2011 12:12 PM MDT up reply actions
Seriously. Thanks for pointing that out.
Laughter and tears are both responses to frustration and exhaustion. I myself prefer to laugh, since there is less cleaning up to do afterward. - Kv
by MalachiConstant on Oct 6, 2011 12:20 PM MDT up reply actions
Damn Dario. I am grading you at an A+. I do wonder if his hands are in the bigger is better defense mantra. I trust him as much as Pracey.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
by c6hor8 on Oct 6, 2011 12:37 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
No Kidding.
I’d not even heard of the guy, let alone knew what he’s done/what he does. Thank you so much for pointing that out!
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who <3s the Avs.
No problem. It’s really hard to say how much say he had in the change. Did he have much say when Giguere made decisions? Did he scout Tucker or was that Billington, Giguere and Michel Gouet? All I do know is that Pierre has kept him through all the ups and downs so there’s got to be a healthy trust.
During training camp Smitty didn’t sit up in the balconey with a lot of the brass. He sat in the chairs below with some other guys and talked to players as they walked back and forth to the changing areas. I also saw Brad carrying a large tray of drinks out of Starbucks to an SUV full of guys before training camp started. He seems real blue collar.
I'll keep this brief.
tray of drinks out of Starbucks to an SUV
seems real blue collar.
My steel-mill and railroad-working ancestors just rolled over in their graves.
4th biggest pessimist of MHH.
"There's always next season." -- Jimmy Howard on not winning the Calder Trophy.
Too many chefs?
This, along with the earlier shoutout to Craig Billington, brings up something that worries me a bit.
Craig Billington
Brad Smith
Eric Lacroix
Pierre Lacroix
Greg Sherman
Joe Sakic
Josh Kroenke
Mr. Stan Kroenke
Who the hell’s in charge, here? What happens when these guys disagree with each other? Do they all work together to resolve the problem (highly unlikely based on real-life experience in the business world), or do they get all political and cliqueish and backstabby on each other (much more likely based on RL experience).
Anyone remember the Nuggets front office situation a few years ago? They had two guys nominated for exec of the year, and it ended up being a dysfunctional mess. I’m a bit worried that this is the case here.
by DiD on Oct 6, 2011 1:51 PM MDT up reply actions
If these guys are all chefs I’m finding a different place to eat.
by CAR on Oct 6, 2011 2:06 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
You forgot Enos.
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Oct 6, 2011 2:14 PM MDT up reply actions
But in seriousness, no wonder we can’t afford player payroll or upgrades to facilities!
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Oct 6, 2011 2:15 PM MDT up reply actions
Clearly the guy in charge is long time Avalanche director and current vice president Jean Matineau.
I'll keep this brief.
And we couldn’t have fired a single one of these guys to keep Lauren? Sheesh.
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Oct 6, 2011 3:02 PM MDT up reply actions
Thank you for the time and research, great article
Haven’t posted for nine months because I am still way pissed over last year and Mike usually posts my feelings with his similar half empty perspectives. (by the way I loved his new leaf fan post, I will try my best to be positive as well this year and be a hopeful fan!)
But not right now. Am I the only one who has lost all faith in Kroenke’s desire to build a winner instead of a balance sheet asset? I know next year will be the litmus test, but count me as not buying it. How much money is enough for this guy? Owning a franchise is not a business but a public trust. I am tired of hearing about their monetary budget constraints. They are worth Billions. They don’t have monetary budget constraints. Talk to an Arsenal fan and see how they feel about his “business” decisions in selling off assets (players) and screwing up the franchise. This guy doesn’t dream about lifting the Cup, he dreams about balance sheets.
There. Done. Now I will be hopeful.
Thank you! I’m a rather optimistic individual, but not when it comes to Kroenke and his motivation. I think you’re right on the money.
With regard to the family environment, I happen to be close friends with a couple of “off-ice” personnel whom in private have told me it’s anything but. I mean, he didn’t get to be a billionaire by being generous with his workers.
Great research
The Ted Hampson thing makes sense now. For two drafts (07 and 08), the Avs were violating one of my personal rules, which is to never let anyone who’s older than 70 handle anything important, unless it’s handing out cash to the grandkids. I don’t want a doctor, lawyer, plumber, accountant, teacher, nurse, coach, and certainly not a GM who’s over 70. Ted Hampson, who’s apparently now the chief scout of the Vancouver Canucks, turns 75(!) this December.
Be healthy, have a long life, and keep scouting for the Canucks, Ted!
And may crazy Al Davis “live” to 125.
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Oct 6, 2011 2:16 PM MDT up reply actions
reality check
I’m not totally sure how good or bad the avs front office is but here’s a few things to remember.
1. I defy anyone to make a case that any other team in the league has a GM who knows nothing about hockey. What’s the point? Why not then let Billington be Gm and Sherman can stay as a bean counter.
2. I’m not sold on Pracey at all. Drafting Duchene and Landeskog a monkey could do. I know I will get yelled at but the jury is way out on Hishon. Why? Let’s see, they are set at center for the forseeable future so why draft him? I know “he can play wing” but think about that. A 170lb wing who is a pass first guy? Also, he’s looking injury prone and at that size you better be a god b/c the cards are stacked against you at that size. The AHL is loaded with guys who can stick handle in a shoe box but can’t make the jump. Plus, as noted many times we are small up front already. Look at the dominant guys in our conference. Getzlaf, Perry, Iginla, Stewart, Ryan, Thornton, list goes on. A fast league now but size still matters, esp. in playoffs. Hope I’m wrong about him.
3. Trades- people can justify it however they want but we got zilch for Hannan (I hate him so that’s the one that bothers me the least) even though this was Sherman’s best trade by a mile. Regardless of what he got from Florida why not get a pick if you were not going to re-sign him? Anderson we got zilch. Bournival for ROB I would reverse if I could. Stewart jury is still out. Hunwick? nuff said. Varly for a 1st and 2nd- it’s pretty much a given he would have gone for a 2nd alone.
4. FA signings- Let’s face it- Kobasew is a mediocre player at BEST. Not sure why you just don’t play one of our younger guys? Hejda I like but he’s a 4th D-man on a decent team. SOB- Guy has been on what 4-5 teams and so he’s a fringe 6th D-man. Lindstrom- you will see by mid year. There’s a reason he couldn’t make the NHL with 2 other teams.
The fact is that the Avs have drafted horribly the last 5-7 years and that’s why they don’t have any depth outside of the young D and siemens from the last 3 years. They have drafted I think 6 goalies in the last 5 years or so. Maybe Pickard could develop from that group in my opinion. Here’s a few names (not Pracey’s fault but nonetheless)-
Stoa, Gaunce, Wolski, Burki, Nigel Williams?, Carman. The only picks on the roster outside of last 2 years and good are Hejduk, Stas, Jones. Even Gali as a 2nd is sketchy. Stewart was by far the best pick at 19.
I don’t understand a single word that you just said.
The Colorado Avalanche: 2012 Cup Champions Until They Ain't!
by burgundyRainbow on Oct 6, 2011 2:33 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah. Especially since the first word “reality” doesn’t seem to exist in your plane of existence….
Rawr Rawr Rawr, no one understands you, she-bear
Oh no!
We traded Hannan for an embolism. Sherman hates the Avs.
Bring on The KOG!
by niwotsblessing on Oct 6, 2011 3:21 PM MDT up reply actions
I keep laughing at the visual from this. Good one. :)
Small defencemen? What small defencemen?
by ljp78 on Oct 6, 2011 3:44 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Count me as one person who has worked very hard to not think like you do. I am on the Avs play-off band-wagon because I got sick of my own pessimism. But I absolutely see your point. BTW, fantastic article. I mean, truly. And i love the optimism of it.
Small defencemen? What small defencemen?
by ljp78 on Oct 6, 2011 3:23 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
1. GM is an upper management position. You don’t have to know anything about your product specifically. You don’t have to know how to make a widget. You have to know how to manage and hire people who know stuff about widgets. Pierre Lacroix has never skated in his life. He couldn’t tell you the difference between Joey Hishon and Valcav Nederost. But he does need to meausre success and hold his employees accountable to his own standards of what’s satisfactory. This applies to all high level management from the President of the USA, to the CEO of Hewlett Packard.
2. Pracey hasn’t missed and he’s only been in charge since Duchene’s draft. O’Reilly was a home run. Elliott was a home run. Barrie was a home run. As for Hishon, his concussion isn’t Pracey’s fault. 170 lb pass first winger? You mean Tangauy or Daniel Sedin? 170lbs like….Ryan Nugent-Hopkins? Last, on Hishon… you don’t project your NHL club need when you draft outside of the first three picks or so, and often times not even then. You don’t take in to account that Thornton is in your conference. If those guys take three years to get on to the big club, a lot of things can and have changed.
3. We got Fleishman for Hannan. Both UFAs after the season, I wouldn’t call that ziltch. Anderson for Elliott looks bad, unless you didn’t want to pay Anderson that kind of money over four years and he was a problem “in the room”. Bournival for ROB kind of goes against your Hishon arguement earlier yes? Why do we need another center on a team full of them? Hunwick deal sucked, no way around that one. But, at the same time Cohen isn’t really lighting things up either. But I agree, bad deal. Where do you get this information that Varley would have gone for a 2nd round pick? The Caps used a first to draft him, spent years developing him and they were going to give him up for a second? The Liles trade didn’t want a part of this rant?
4. Everyone knows Kobasew is my favorite player so I’ll not try to let my personal non-objective view on the man get in the way of saying he sucks. I’m gonna let that one go. If Hejda is the 4th best D on a good team then what the hell is Sidenberg? Keith needs his Seabrook. Webber needs his Suter. EJ needs his Hejda. SOB, um is a 6th defenseman with PK time as well. Teams need those? Lindstrom looks good to me, what reason did he not make it with two other teams? One of which we convinced to take Wolski.
No, it’s no Pracey’s fault, but nonetheless what? To repeat a theme from earlier, all upper management can do is hold employees accountable for performance. Your head scout blows it, you get a new one. No doubt that drafting hurt the Avs goalie depth and that cost them some premium this offseason with the Varley aquisition. That’s a cost associated with poor goalie drafting. Again, Pracey wasn’t in charge of drafting and Michele Goulet was in charge of player development.
Stoa (not Pracey), Gaunce (what’s wrong with Gaunce? Not Pracey anyway), Burki (uh, the 2006 draft?), Carmen (uh, the 81st pick in 2006). The only picks on the roster in the last two years would be “Not-Pracey”. Not-Pracey had some bad picks.
Your list of draft critisms about the current Avalanche scouting should start with Duchene and go from there. The 2009 draft was unbelievably good. Insanely good. The only guy to wash out so far is Maxwell at the 151st pick. Hell, teams miss on picks as a matter of pure FACT on 80+% of guys above the number 150. The rest of it is still too early to tell, even though I follow these prospects closer than most.
and…scene.
I'll keep this brief.
counter-point
1. A bean counter has been necessary since the days of bloated overpayment for superstars left the organization in salary cap ruin. Sherm et. al. have righted the ship in this regard. I don’t think anyone would disagree that for the past few years, $$$ has weighed heavier on the scales than skill.
2. I think it’s a bit early to go bonkers over mid to late round picks either way. However, when analyzed, Pracey’s drafts show a distinct strategy of adding depth to every facet of the organization. He has drafted high ceiling talent up-front in ‘09, ’10, and ’11, offense on the blue line in ’09, defense on the blue line in ’11, and goalie depth in ’10. I for one am pleased with the depth he has had the foresight to put into the system.
3. The Hannan move was absolutely called for at the time. The Avs had just gone through a spate of injuries up front and were incredibly thin up front. Flash provided a top 6 guy to bring us to a total of about 4 guys who could actually play in the top 6 legitimately. Hannan was on his way out after the season anyhow. Bournival was a 3rd round pick that Sherm turned into a bruising 3-4 D man in ROB. No complaints from me on this one. Andy practically forced his way out of town. Stewart/Shatty/pick for EJ/McC/Seimens is, as you say, still out.
4. Kobasew is coming out of the Adjective’s, nuff said. Let’s see what he brings. Hejda as a 4th I just plain disagree with. I agree that Lindstrom was a reach, but am willing to see what he brings. There was this fellow named Tim that muddled around sub-par leagues for years. I think I saw him playing somewhere in New England last spring. Seems somebody sent him home with a cup for his troubles. Just saying…let him perform.
I won’t say that the Avs are in prime position to contend yet, but the framework is in place. My bold prediction is that in less than a year we could see a Saint behind the bench and a Super Hero with expanded duties in the front office (read GM). I really think that the conversation with Roy a few years back probably went something like:
Avs: “Patrick, wanna come coach the team?”
Patrick: “Ehhh, clean dis mess up and call me back.”
Slightly Tasteful Fudge Underpants
you’ll laugh per my comments above but I think Sacco is a good coach. He was top 3 for coach of year 2 years ago but nobody was going to win with his line-up last half of last year. Got to have some horses.
by the cool breeze on Oct 6, 2011 4:35 PM MDT up reply actions
what?
I said above the older draft failures were not Pracey’s fault, I was just making a point that they have not drafted well. I do think they will be a better team this year for sure but let’s be a little objective. For example, the Varly trade was a shock to most pundits so I don’t think I’m alone there. Giving a potential top 5 pick and a 2nd for a guy who was likely not going to play there is a lot. I realize the Avs had a need but that was a lot to give up. Varly at 1st rd- what pick 23, that’s light years from a top 5 pick and if you don’t believe look at last 5 years top five vs where Varly went and you see the difference.
I’m not saying Pracey is bad I’m just not going to say he’s one of top 5 guys in league because he drafted Duchene and Landy. Saying Barrie and Elliot are stars is a little premature in my opinion. That said, I like those picks so far. Hishon we can argue about but I stand behind my points about him. Sedin is 6’1" by the way, Tanguay 6’, RNH 6’- he’s the #1 pick and not comparable anyway. Hishon is a slight 5’ 10" BTW and isn’t physical in the least. There’s a serious risk taking guys that size which is partly why he slipped. Marc Savard (a lights out talent) is done likely, Pierre Marc Bouchard out for a year with concussion, those guys get injured more easily (dare I compare Cumiskey).
Hejda is Seabrook and Suter, that’s it. I like him but let’s get serious. Kobasew I think we agree on, why get a has been on a rebuilding team.
People keep saying we are going to catch all these top teams and I hope we do but SJ has Big Joe (not little meek Joey), Marleau, Pavelski; Vancouver Kesler, Twins, etc.; LA Kopitar, Richards , Doughty, etc. . All those guys will be around for at least next 5 years so I don’t see them fading.
2006 is when EJ and Toews got drafted so I wouldn’t say the ripe old age of 23 is too old. So yest those were bad drafts.
What am I talking about? I’m on board now. The Avs will win the cup! :) Go Avs! Vancouver will finish 29th, they suck balls!
Giving a potential top 5 pick and a 2nd for a guy who was likely not going to play there is a lot. I realize the Avs had a need but that was a lot to give up. Varly at 1st rd- what pick 23, that’s light years from a top 5 pick and if you don’t believe look at last 5 years top five vs where Varly went and you see the difference.
blinkblink
Oh
Now I understand.
Can’t believe so many guys
Bit on that one bro.
It's all about the O'
Hishon… isn’t physical in the least.
I’ll admit, I’ve not seen him play much (2 games I think), but from what I’ve seen, Hish plays more physically than Olver. Except he’s got about twice the hockey skill as Olvertine does. Sure, he’s small, but he’s still got some room to fill out, and if he’s scoring, his size isn’t too much of a concern. Duchene is 5’-11". Is he too small to be playing in the NHL? And even though Martin St. Louis plays in the East, he’s 5’-8". Yes, small players are at a disadvatage and are often injured. But I still think Hishon can still become an effective winger in the NHL.
The reason he slipped was not his size – it was the fact he was injured. Early reports had him going pretty high, but when he busted his foot and MCL midseason, he got passed by the players excelling late in the year.
All those guys will be around for at least next 5 years so I don’t see them fading.
The key to the Avs’ success is not other teams fading, it’s our team peaking at the right time.
And I’m not even going to go into the top 5 thing….
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who <3s the Avs.
When it’s time to spend, they’ll spend, but they’ll do it in a way that maximizes performance instead of just spending for spending’s sake (here’s looking at you, Toronto and Florida).
Florida spent to get to the floor (which btw they are just now above). Thats spending for the sake of not getting punished because the cap increased to stupidly high levels.
I’m putting here for reflection later on in the season…. #14 Tomas [Fleischmann] is getting a 40G season.
by RPC on Sep 17, 2011 5:20 PM MDT
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