Sacking Sacco: Pros and Cons

The strangest part of Dutchy being sent to the 4th line was that is was ostensibly done b/c Matty wasn’t scoring/shooting. If you need to remind a hot-shot player how to play D, sending them down to the 4th for a game is reasonable. But b/c he’s not scoring? That’s just asinine.

Voted B. Management certainly ought to be scouting for a replacement at this point, even if they give Sacco the rest of November to see if the Avs can stay above .500 before pulling the trigger. Peter help my fragile soul if we play under .500 all the way through December with no changes.

Oh Andi. I had spent over an hour doing a very similar post, but had to save it to go into a stupid meeting. Now I find all my work is undone.

Given the high rotation of players we’ve had during that time, it starts to point more at a coaching system issue than a player one.

That is exactly the point with the team. How is this team (with around 40% new team) playing identically to the one last year. Even the stats are the same! GAA, G/A, G/F etc.

Add to that the fact that the D that started off the season so well has reverted to awful shitness would point at the coach. Either him or Lefebvre should go

I think this:

Sacco is doing more harm than good to the young players. In and out of the doghouse, failing to fight crappy ref calls, putting Duchene on the 4th line, FFS.

Someone wrote last year that the team is not playing to win, they are playing to stay in favour. I don’t know if that is true, but it does look like it.

Not showing up for the whole 60 minutes? How many times have we heard that? Still it goes on.

Rightly or wrongly, I think it is time for a change and whether or not Sacco deserves to be sacked is incidental, he has had 2+ years to have his shot and I do not think the team is any closer to the Stanley Cup than it was when Trailor Arnason was on the first line.

Who are we going to get to replace him if he goes?

This is the biggest part of the decision. If there isn’t an upgrade available, why get rid of him?

No way in hell I want to see Patrick behind the bench. Again, I love the guy, as a goalie. Quinn may be an upgrade, he may not. Putting him in this situation may turn out worse than if he gets another year or two in the A. Not much else out there.

If Sacco is fired, I want to see a bonafied superstar that can get the Avs a cup taking his place. Nothing less will do.

My thinking is basically this: Sacco has these two upcoming road games against Pitt and the Wild to fix things. When the Avs return on the 18th to play the Stars, if I see another start like the Flames or Islanders game, I’m done with the Sacco-coached Avalanche. We’re home until early December, and this season will spiral out of control if we play like we’ve been playing at home for half a month.

I’ve tried to be open to Jibbles’ theories about being unlucky or hitting bouts of crazy-good goaltending, but the last couple games just can’t convince me that’s the case. When we’ve played hard in the third, we’ve made amazing goaltending look very pedestrian, and I place the blame for that on a system or coaching motivation problem.

I am not completely on the fire him bandwagon yet, but I am dangerously close.

Having the same results (hot start, terrible second half in the first two years…looks the same early on this year), and problems 3 years in a row (or 5 since he had the same issues when he coached at Lake Erie), despite different rosters. A defense that is limiting overall shots, but still giving up way too many golden scoring chances. A horrid PK, and a team that still can’t find a way to start on time. If this was just this year, I would lay off a little more, but again, this is 3 years now…and without a super human Anderson in year one, the Avs probably don’t make the playoffs that year.

Plus the Sacco doghouse is just becoming stale, old, and outside of Stewart for a little bit, it hasn’t worked a lick.

So while I am not there yet…there are a lot of strikes starting to pile up against him.

I tire of hearing him say they didn’t start the game on time, isn’t that the point of the coaching staff, to get players to play to their ability at any given time?

Once or a few times saying this is ok, but this is like his standard statement after a loss now.

In the GDT, Mike posted this gem:

I’ve personally never seen a coach execute a single thing on the ice. You wanna hang schemes on coaches? Fine. You wanna hang performance on coaches? Bullshit. That’s on the players. Even a crap scheme has decent nights. They play fine on the road? What the hell is that about? Sacco is decent on the road? This team is inconsistent, shallow offensively, suspect defensively, inexperienced in net, and exposed on the PK.

Or Shit if you don’t feel like reading that.

Elsewhere, Arby’s hid their remaining stock of sandwiches out of fear for their wellbeing.

I respect Mike 100% as he has played exactly 100% more hockey than me. (Ice hockey, anyway).

But, this season’s team is looking a lot like last seasons’ and the season before, despite the infusion of some big mofos on D and the chopping of deadwood like Tucker, Arnason etc.

PK terrible, D terrible, goaltending terrible, no depth at wing. How can a team change half its personnel, yet perform exactly the same as the last two years?If everything is different, what is the same? Sacco & co. Kono left and Deadmarsh wasn’t behind the bench last season, so it is Sacco and Lefebvre.

Even if you think Sacco is the best coach in the world, something has to change. You can’t fire 23 players (although they’ve tried to trade them) but you can fire the coach. So do it now, whilst there is still a chance of a playoff berth.

The penalty kill is an atrocious #28 at 75.0%.

Except the PK isn’t his responsibility. It’s Lefebvre’s.

-The constant line shuffling is another area of concern.

Yet everyone keeps saying, “No, THESE should be the lines! Why keep the third line together when it could be so much better THIS way.” He also hasn’t shuffled them nearly as much as everyone wants to believe.

The perpetual “We didn’t start on time” or “we didn’t play our game for a full 60 minutes” are starting to get old.

1. Welcome to the NHL. Every coach says it.
2. What’s said to the public =/= what’s said in the locker room.

at .500 and just 2 pts from the playoff race

You can stop there. This is not a coach you fire.

When I was doing my internship, I was promised a job on a Friday. The CEO told me to go home and think about (because it would require a relocation of my family). Naturally my family and I were excited for the opportunity for employment so when I showed back up on Monday, I found out my CEO got fired that day. WTF. So I went to the new CEO and talked with him. He apologized and would not uphold the offer. Rather or not if it was justified I learned a lot and see where the board was coming from.

He was terminated because the hospital had two bad months. Really bad months. Loss of revenue and most of its savings. No matter what we did there would be another unforeseen circumstance that would cost the hospital money. It could be change in reimbursements or bad contract from the previous CEO. Either way the money was not there. The unfortunate news is that the termination was made at mid month, and when the final number was released we had a profit for that month. He had turned things around but the board did not give him time.

Now, I relate this because I see a lot of similarities. There are unforeseen situations. We got an entire new Blue line and goal tending group. Players are not producing like anticipated. We are not serving the community as well as we could (home losses). Our production is not working (starting off slow or only playing 20 minute hockey). In ability to find solutions (constant line shuffling, high goal allowance for 2 years and horrible PK), even when the board brings in talent for you to use (Johnson, ROB, SOB, Hejda, Hunwick, Varley and Giggy). The fact is he is doing average, and for the amount of money spent he is returning a decent amount. However, it would be justified for a firing. If I was GM, I would set the staff down and tell them this is unacceptable and give them a deadline. I would tell them that someone will lose their job if it does not get fixed. I would then encourage the staff to tell the team.

If I was to fire anyone right now, it would be Sylvain Lefebvre. Our defense was horrible last year, and I gave you a whole defense. More defense-minded team, and you are 1 goal worse this year. To me that is warranted for termination not promotion like rumors have it right now.

If I was to fire anyone right now, it would be Sylvain Lefebvre. Our defense was horrible last year, and I gave you a whole defense. More defense-minded team, and you are 1 goal worse this year. To me that is warranted for termination not promotion like rumors have it right now.

Agreed. What concerns me is that the D started the season very well, but now, they won’t stand people up at the blue line and miss assignments etc and look very similar to last year, which is borne out by the stats.

And, the Avs suddenly have a new captain

 The Avs don’t have enough winger depth, make a trade right now, and fire the GM for not bringing in a winger in the offseason

Young talented teams are notorious for being inconsistent. This means swings in wins and losses as the team gows and develops
This team is inconsistent, it must be the coaches fault.

Seasons are long grinds with plenty of ups & downs. It’s important to have patience and not freak out over every rough patch. For example, last season’s Capitals lost 8 straight and were fine in the end.

The Avs are in a rough patch, fire the coach, and all the problems are solved!

Players make mistakes, and so do coaches. The key is to try and work with players to overcome those natural tendencies

Fire the coach, the players are making mistakes and it hasn’t been fixed in 10 games.

The Avs are still rebuilding

I can’t see how this is true, bearing in mind our 1st and 2nd round picks were traded.

To avoid being glossed over, I’ll summarize my feelings on Sacco’s performance in general.

I like him. He seems to have excellent leadership qualities and the respect of the players. He was a hard-working player and brings that attitude to the coach position.

However, Sacco really lacks in X’s and O’s. He’s learning on the job, but seems to be behind the curve. If we want to keep this franchise moving forward, we need to get up to speed with the rest of the NHL. It’s not a requirement to employ a coach who had extensive NHL experience. Take a look at the best coaches in the game today: Guy Boucher, Barry Trotz, and (sorry) Mike Babcock. Combined they have 0 NHL games played.

I really wanted for this to be a good team. At the beginning of the year I had myself convinced that the defensive changes were on track, that the penalty kill couldn’t get worse, and that we finally healthy enough up front to contend. The early Eastern Conference road trip was exciting and made me think that the Avs were heading in the right direction.

I can see now that this was all an illusion. This is a defective organization. The ownership has set a cap floor budget, and told the guy who used to run the gift shop to build a team out of young kids and spare parts. Give them minor league coaching and rely on youthful energy and desperation to get some wins. Quite possibly the worst thing to happen to this team was the playoff berth in 2009-2010. It told ownership that this was a viable financial model.

The wins on the road trip were against Eastern Conference teams that only see the Avs once a year, maybe twice, and who don’t have a complete scouting report. Even then, all wins but one were squeakers. The failure to win consistently at home has more to do with who we play than where. Western Conference teams understand that clogging the neutral zone and taking away the break kills the Avs attack. This team is fundamentally deficient in their ability to pass tape-to-tape. Without that, there’s nothing to do against a trap but gain the red line and dump the puck in. From there, move the puck to the points and then try to score off the big point shot or the scramble on the rebound. Ever wonder why our defenders have lots of points this year? It’s the “system.”

Should we expect other than minor league hockey from largely minor league talent and coaching? Evidently not. The failure starts at the very top.

But, Mirtle explained that getting 7 points every 6 games is “playoff pace”. He says 3-2-1 is the goal for a team. If the Avs continue to play like they are by putting up a lot of shots, they should be able to stay around that pace.

Thanksgiving is my starting point. After that I will assess Sacco and his worth, even though I am creeping towards the fire Sacco group. I think this team is playing better than their record, whereas two seasons ago they were playing worse than their record. It should even out and I think being on a 3-2-1 pace is extremely doable for this team.

Any takers?

Something has to be done. Be it a trade for a winger, the permanent placement of Duchene on the wing (logical choice given a: his production at wing + b: depth at center). The D is big and when they hit, they win. They don’t hit enough and give the middle of the zone to much, I see them playing hard within the confines of whatever the D strategy is, laying out to block shots etc., but whatever the strategy is it isnt working.

As for offensive scheme, the dump and chase has not been consistent while the lack of being able to change the scheme in the middle of a game has.

Sacco won’t be fired. He just won’t be resigned.

And if Sacco goes, so to should Sherman

I have no idea. But that’s not a valid argument; reason being none of us work in hockey professionally. That is, nobody here knows any ECHL coaches, WHL, OHL, etc, etc. I’m sure there’s somebody in the Avalanche organization who knows some outstanding coach somewhere that nobody has ever heard of.

The popular argument among fans is the old “well who would you get that’s better? Hitchcock is gone!”. So according to fans, there are approximately 33 NHL coaches in the entire world, 30 of whom are currently employed.

I’ve been on the fence about Sacco since Day 1, and still am. He may/may not be the right guy, but his skill in strategy is like GW Bush’s skill in grammar. I agree that he’s been good at helping the young players develop a more versatile skill-set, but at some point, that has to be effectively plugged into a system in which the players know what their role is. I don’t think Sacco’s the guy to do that particular aspect of the job.

After seeing the same defensive gaffes and snafu’s this season after improving the defense leads me to believe that firing Lefebvre would do more to improve the on-ice product. However, the question remains on the firing of either Lefebvre or Saco….who do we replace them with??

Like a lot of people, I have no answer at this point.

The very issues creeping up this season were predicted by a few fans around here because they were issues from the beginning with Sacco.

Sacco does some thing very well, but the guy isn’t ready for the NHL. The only way this teams wins is by sucking opponents into run and gun games. There are real reasons why the Avs fair better against Eastern Conference teams, they don’t have time to invest into cracking the Avalanche Code.

Tough poll results. Although he does have the most talented roster since the mid-to-late 70’s Canadiens, and they have underperformed of late, I still admire Sacco and believe that he has Scotty Bowman potential. Remember that other coach we dismissed, Quenneville? What did he do a few years ago?

Don’t rush to judgement. Perhaps the youth of the team will dictate a little more time before they are winning 80% or more of their games. But it will happen. Believe me.

After the first half I was thinking “Stupid Sacco.” Then I read the other half and I thought “Keep Sacco!” Now I’m arguing with myself and I blame you.

Then I read the comments and wondered when we all became serious hockey experts.

Well, I’m on the fence. I know it’s a shocker after all the Sacco Haterade I’ve spewed. But meeting the guy at the Meet The Team event sort of put things into perspective. Interesting thing about our conversation was that Sacco confirmed that, and I quote, sometimes he has the “Peanuts Teacher effect” on the team. He said so himself—they tune him out.

The pros and cons presented here are almost bipolar of each other. It’s weird that that would be the case. Usually it’s outright bad in all cases. But not so with this one. My major beef with how he does things regarding his system is what I would call “slave to the system.” He will absolutely not budge one bit from his “system” to make in game adjustments. How many times have we seen the same dump and chase on a powerplay only to watch the opposition quickly ice it out of the offensive zone? And then what do they do on the next try? The same damn thing.

I wonder if maybe switching up his assistant coaches would be the better idea. Maybe bring in another assistant without removing 2 & 16. If that won’t work, would anyone think that Craig MacTavish could spark this team towards playoff contention? What about Pat Quinn? Any more talk about former Adams winner Ted Nolan coming in from Latvia? I really think that if they were going to pull the trigger, they should have done it before the Blues acquired Hitchcock.

Right now, I’m in a holding pattern in regards to the coaching situation. I’d like to see them just start playing up to their level of potential and talent. Maybe this captaincy thing will string some wins together?