Don't Be Fooled; Our Stastny is Great
by avalanchejef on Nov 19, 2011 8:47 PM MST
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PrintWe all know in the national media the Avalanche players are viewed as sub par players. A perfect example was Liles. Last year he was just a mediocre PP specialist and this year he becomes one of the games best PP quarterback. Every once in a while I will torture my self and go to the HF boards. These people have no idea about the Avs. Of course there are a few that goes the other direction too, but that is not the concern. I am tired of the eastern bias toward players. I have a better understanding of those teams because Versus covers only the Penguins, NHL covers the Original 8. So I have a good understanding of what is going on out there. I hate hearing from people that Stastny is the main trade bait and that his worth is not as much as what I think it should be. After the Jump I will break down Goals per game (G/GP) and Points per game (P/GP) of other elite players who I have heard Stastny is not in the same class with. When we are talking about the elite, the important numbers are goals and points.
All numbers are from regular season
Stastny- 368GP, 111G, 334P- .302G/GP, .908P/GP
Carter- 469GP, 181G, 346P- .393G/GP, .738P/GP. Returned- A 3rd round pick and Voracek (but pretty much was a salary dump for Ilya Bryzgalov). Skinny-Although Stastny goal scoring number are down his point production is greatly better.
M. Richards- 473GP, 141G, 365P- .298G/GP, . 772P/GP. Returned- Wayne Simmons, Brayden Schenn (fockey Future #3 prospect) , and a 2012 2nd rd pick. Skinny- Stastny has more goals per game and points per game and should bring back more than Richards.
Kessel- 393GP, 141G, 270P- .359G/GP, .687P/GP. Returned- Two 1st round picks and a 2nd. Lottery. Skinny-Again Stastny is not the same in goals, but he is head and shoulders better in points. Should bring more back IMO.
Setoguchi- 286GP, 90G, 169P- .314G/GP, .591P/GP. Returned Brent Burns (IMO one of the best defenders in the game) and a second. Also, heading to the Wild are Charlie Coyle (25th overall prospect on Hockey Future) and a 1st. Skinny- WTF MILD, I hope Sherman didn't know about the availability before he traded Stewie and Shats. Anyways if this is the bench mark then Stastny would bring back a top level defender and a top prospect.
Parise- 437GP, 169G, 351P- ..387G/GP, .803P/GP. Skinny- Large difference in goals, but large difference in points advantage Statsny. FYI- Parise in Olympics with SOS- 6GP, 4G, 8P- .667 G/GP, 1.33P/GP, make it happen Sherman (More FYI that is higher then Sakic and Forsberg). This small sample size might be offensive to some members.
Nash- 610GP, 263G, 500P- .431G/GP, .820P/GP. Skinny- Ok, this can be a stretch, who knows what Nash's numbers would be if he actually had a decent team. However, I can't help to point out that Stastny is seeing more goals come in due to his efforts than Nash.
Semin- 409GP, 180G, 363P- .440G/GP, .888P/GP. Skinny- Probably the same for Nash, with a bit more emphasis.
Toews- 322GP, 125G, 286P- .388G/GP, .888P/GP. Skinny- Yes, I went there. I personally would take this trade if ever offer in a blink of an eye, but Stastny numbers are equal to Toews.
E. Staal- 580GP, 230G, 512P- .397G/GP, .883P/GP. Skinny- Stastny has put up more points per game then the best Staal.
I am not advocating that Stastny is greater then anyone of these players with the exception of Setoguchi, and not even that. All I am saying is, start giving some respect to Stastny and what he does, he actually puts up greater numbers then most of the other "super stars" in the NHL/Versus markets. Just because the most of the east go to bed early doesn't mean Stastny is not one of the games more elite players, and if you want him you are going to have to pay big for him. So, in other words, NO TRADES WITH THE LEAFS.
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Stastney?
I don’t think it’s fair to compare Stats to wingers, but other than that, nice analysis.
Also, to save everyone else the trouble…
Your doing it wrong. It issent all abut stats and numbers. Statsny doesnt have hart and talent like Anji Kopitor.
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by Tempestuous Binary on Nov 20, 2011 12:01 AM MST reply actions
Stastny is undervalued by fans and I think that is why there were rumors about trading him for a pick and all that crap. I believe Sherman had no plans, at all, of trading him unless someone like Weber is coming back.
I also believe that it was the cool thing to do last spring to under-value him by the rumor mongerers because secretly they know how good he is.
I would like to see which players, league wide, have a better P/GP in the same time span he’s been in the league.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
Fun Fact:
From the end of the lockout to the end of last year, Stastny was #29 overall in the league in PPG. He is also #14 overall vs. just Centers. In assists per game (which is where Stastny really shines), he is #23 overall and #11 vs. centers. And when you want to talk about just this franchise, he’s now 10th on the scoring list, 10th on the assist list and, only 26 goals away from being 10th on the goal list. He’s not the flashiest player, but he scores. Add in the fact he’s been playing with a less than outstanding team out west for the past few years, and those numbers become even more impressive.
I know the three center tango gets a bit tiresome especially when we can’t get them all quality wings, but I’m not sure trading Stastny is the answer. He’s much better than he appears when you’re just watching him play, and even though that might be construed as just a team-biased statement, there are actually hard numbers to back it up. I’m afraid almost any trade we make involving him is going to end up with us getting screwed since he is such a highly undervalued player. I think we’re going to have to find wingers another way, since I’d say the Son of Stastny isn’t going anywhere for a while.
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You can tell how he’s valued in the league. Typically his line gets the best defensive coverage by the Avs opponents (with the obvious exception of Friday’s game with Dallas). Just because the MSM and HF Boards don’t recognize his value doesn’t mean that GMs around the league don’t see it. They know.
My Eno$ itches
by Busted Twigg on Nov 20, 2011 10:14 AM MST up reply actions
Great read! I like seeing him all lined up with other NHL players. I love Paul Stastny. I wear his jersey to home games and his point production is certainly among the elite. His vision and understanding of the game are unparalleled.
But every time I try to imagine him retire an Avalanche player, I have trouble. Maybe the Stewart trade just scared me a little. But the fact is HF Boards is no more than a petty chat room and guys like TSN’s Bob McKenzie as well as the beat writer from the Edmonton Journal have reported talks around our beloved Stastny. This isn’t Eklund, either. If you think they haven’t at least tested the waters on a Stastny trade, than you are lying to yourself.
Go avs.
"It's not my fault I never learned to accept responsibility."-Woody Paige
Trades do go two ways. If the Avs are struggling, you can bet someone is ringing the phones at the Pepsi Center to see if they can get their hands on an elite center.
My Eno$ itches
by Busted Twigg on Nov 20, 2011 4:52 PM MST up reply actions
No Bozak Comparison???
For reallz?
Your logic is invalid until this comparison is made. Because we all know, that Stastny will be traded to Toronto for Kulminen (spl?), Bozak, and a 3rd
OK, I will indulge you
Bozak- 138 GP, 25G, 70P- . 181G/GP, .507P/GP
Kulminen- 254 GP, 63G, 132P- .248G/GP, .520P/GP
Grabovski- 263GP, 67 G, 160P- .255G/GP, .608P/GP
McArthur- 305GP, 71G, 158P- .233G/GP, .518P/GP
Kadri- 33GP, 3G, 13P- .091G/GP, .394P/GP
Kadri (AHL)- 55GP, 18G, 51P- .327G/GP, .927P/PG (so AHL numbers are equivalent to SOS)
Thus no trade with the leafs.
by avalanchejef on Nov 21, 2011 1:35 PM MST up reply actions
He's also on a pace for 51 points this year
He had 57 last year.
I think it’s natural to be concerned about his offensive output.
Agree
With All-Star calibre players like Brandon Yip and Kevin Porter on his wings I’d definitely be concerned about his production.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
I figured this would come up, but I expected it from someone a lot dumber than you.
He’s been with Yip and Porter for all of two games. In one of those games, the line combined for 9 shots, which is pretty good. Stats had most of those shots.
Did he primarily play with Yip and Porter last year? (No, no he didn’t.)
This year’s even-strength linemates, by frequency:
JONES KOBASEW 6.77%
HEJDUK DUCHENE 6.28%
JONES HEJDUK 4.96%
HEJDUK LINDSTROM 2.6%
GALIARDI HEJDUK 2.23%
YIP PORTER 1.13%
HEJDUK KOBASEW 0.61%
Last year’s even-strength linemates, by frequency:
Galiardi – Stewart, 3.52%
Jones – Stewart, 3.09%
Jones – Stoa, 2.41%
Jones – Porter, 1.82%
Hejduk – Duchene, 1.54%
Hejduk – Porter, 1.29%
Jones – Hejduk, 1.21%
Yip – Porter, 1.12%
Galiardi – Jones, 1.12%
Last year he was second among Avs’ forwards in PP TOI (3:03/game). This year he is second among Avs’ forwards in PP TOI (2:46/game).
Thank god for the power play, because of his 13 points this season, only 6 of them have come at even strength.
Last year, 37 of his 57 points came at even strength.
I think he’s going to bust out soon, but then again, I think the Avs as a team are going to bust out soon.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 21, 2011 3:08 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Burgundy?
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Nov 21, 2011 3:37 PM MST up reply actions
If he doesn’t bust out, things are gonna get ugly.
I’m banking on him being the guy who was 17th in the league in ES points two seasons ago, and not the guy who is tied in that category this year with Daniel Winnik.
It’s just one of those things where the Avs don’t have enough high skilled wingers. Either Stastny or Duchene is going to have to play on a line with guys who don’t have the talent to play in an nhl top 6 consistently.
by Do Not Feed the Octopus on Nov 23, 2011 1:13 PM MST reply actions
Stupid Comparisons
Ridiculous. You cant base everything on points. Mike Richards is a beast in every aspect of the game, defense, offense, hits, fights, faceoffs, everything. He is worth way more than Stastny. Nash and Carter…….. wow, they just have something that Stastny will never have, tremendous size to go along with that comparable point production. Take things like leadership into account also in the case of Carter, Richards, Toews, Staal, and Nash (all the Canadian boys, coincidence? I think not) and its just not fair to compare. When Burke traded for Kessel he was paying for potential and Setoguchi was in a package. There are no players to compare him to which is often the case with any star. IMO he is worth a prospect, roster player and a 2nd round pick. Because you pick out the leafs specifically I will use their organization as an example: Kadri, Clarke MacArthur, 2nd round pick
I measured points, because if you are going to pay a guy 6 million a year he better be a whole lot more then just character player. Of course players like Richards and Nash bring a lot in return because of other intangibles. When it comes down to it it is the goals that wins games, not fights, not shots, not take aways, not shifts, it is goals. This is a single comparison. If I was a GM I would not take a trade that offers a 2nd, an AHL player that has the same numbers as my NHL player and player that averages a point every other game. Your leafs are getting to good of a deal. Personally I wouldn’t want Kadri period, so if you want me to take a guy that carries that much baggage you are going to have to give me something even more.
Second point, I dont know what you meant by “Canadian boys”, but I have a very fond liking of many Canadian hockey players such as Sakic, Foote and Duchene. But to imply that American players lack any sort of leadership or talent is ridiculous, and proves you are an idiot. Statsny has been an assistant for the Avs for a while so he brings some leadership according to his teammates who many are Canadians.
by avalanchejef on Nov 25, 2011 12:45 AM MST up reply actions
-Points are a very important statistic when you’re dealing with top players. But circumstance sometimes needs to be taken into consideration.
-Stastny has citizenship in Canada, as well as the USA and is mostly Slovakian. Chris Drury is American, and was a good leader. Brett Hull was American. Ryan Miller and Tim Thomas. The Canadian list is much bigger… I doubt bambambigelow is anti-american.
"It's not my fault I never learned to accept responsibility."-Woody Paige
by GeorgeInLimbo on Nov 25, 2011 9:15 AM MST up reply actions
As I said in the post, I am not advocating the value of being equal, I was just saying Stastny numbers are very similar as many of the top players in the league. I just think Stastny just doesn’t get the notoriety as other players but that doesn’t mean he is not an elite player. To be honest I was surprised by the comment, and thought it was a “dick-holeish” comment, whatever the reason was.
by avalanchejef on Nov 25, 2011 10:26 AM MST up reply actions
I agree with leadership and other intangibles, however you cannot put a value on that, so it is impossible to give comparative values. So I didn’t even try. What I took was the one value I could compare.
by avalanchejef on Nov 25, 2011 10:30 AM MST up reply actions
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