Sharks at Avalanche, Game 21 Recap: Sharks Swim Out Of Denver With 4-1 Win
by Derek B on Nov 20, 2011 8:36 PM MST
in Avalanche Recaps
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[NOTE: Due to me being an idiot and forgetting to set my DVR before I left for my Men's League game, I as only able to watch from the second period on. If anyone would like to add their thoughts on the first period, please do so in the comments section below. ]
As the second period got underway you could just tell that the San Jose was going to want to build on their strong play to end the first period. That's exactly what they did.
The Sharks were the ones winning all the battles along the boards, they were hustling to loose pucks faster than the Avs, and it cost them on the second goal against.
The Sharks were dominating play so much during the first half of the 2nd period, that it took nearly 9 minutes of play before the Avs were able to manage their first shot on net. The Avs had a chance to build some momentum shortly after the goal, Patrick Marleau's second of the game, but failed to capitalize on the power play with Dan Boyle off for interference.
- 1 Matt Duchene, Avs only goal of the night
- 2 Jean Sebastien Giguere, Kept the Avs in the game again, but received no help offensively
- 3 Shane O'Brien played in his 400th game in the NHL, the only Avs defenseman with that many games logged in the NHL.
- 1 Porter-Stastny-Yip
- 2 Landeksog-Duchene-Hejduk
- 3 Winnik-O'Reilly-Jones
- 4 Galiardi-McClement-Kobasew
- 1 O'Byrne-Johnson
- 2 O'Brien-Quincey
- 3 Wilson-Hejda
- 1 Not really sure what was going on with the line combinations tonight. Definitely a head scratcher, Porter-Stastny-Yip??? Really Joe Sacco??
- 2 Key to this game to me was that the Sharks seemed to win all of the little battles to the pucks and along the boards in the second period.
- 3 Congratulations to Shane O'Brien for playing in his 400th career NHL game.
The Vancouver Canucks head into Denver on Wednesday night in an ever important Northwest Division game. It is extremely important to get these divisional points as early as possible.
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Hey Guys,
How about a little help here?
Signed,
Matt
I am the most humble blogger of all time
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Nov 20, 2011 8:55 PM MST reply actions
Just dropped by to say: Matt Duchene is ridiculous. I’m sure you guys are used to him by now, but good gods… amazing.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
Whenever I want to save something I don't click "Save"... I click "Semyon Varlamov it"
by Thor the Clunge Destroyer on Nov 20, 2011 9:15 PM MST reply actions
Games like this show the biggest difference between a spending team and a capfloor team
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Nov 20, 2011 9:27 PM MST reply actions
And favored officiating. We outshoot then roughly 2-1 and we only got 1 power play? Redonkulous!
by quietstorm560 on Nov 20, 2011 9:28 PM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
....really?
Because being outplayed and spending the entire third period hanging on for dear life is exactly what the ‘spending’ team did. But sure. It’s management’s fault.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Nov 20, 2011 9:34 PM MST up reply actions
Sharks won the third…1-0. We are getting outspent…whether it’s management or an owner that doesn’t allow management to make more deals, doesn’t matter, it spells out to having players that can’t quite compete to win in this league.
...holy freaking f*ck, snakes!
Did you actually watch the game?
Their one goal was an EN goal on the freaking power play. We outshot them 14-3 and took it to them all period. What exactly could “management” have done that the players themselves didn’t do everything they could to do? Make a trade at the 10 minute mark and magically get the new guys in the game so we could outshoot them 18-3 instead? Give me a fucking break.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Nov 20, 2011 9:41 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah
I mean, spending the bare minimum they can is probably not a recipe for longterm success, but when the other team starts a back up and still gets a .973, what are you gonna to do besides exhaust the English language’s capacity for profanity?
by Andrew_in_Seattle on Nov 20, 2011 9:43 PM MST up reply actions
Spend more money, obviously
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Nov 20, 2011 9:43 PM MST up reply actions
facedesk
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Nov 20, 2011 9:46 PM MST up reply actions
Because spending money has sure helped Columbus….
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
Footer: We'll miss seeing you clear the riff raff off your lawn.
by Americanario on Nov 20, 2011 9:47 PM MST up reply actions
and Montreal!
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Nov 20, 2011 9:48 PM MST up reply actions
and Calgary!
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Nov 20, 2011 9:48 PM MST up reply actions
and, at least at the moment, Vancouver!
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Nov 20, 2011 9:49 PM MST up reply actions
Who played in a non cap era
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Nov 20, 2011 9:49 PM MST up reply actions
We’re so low because we have a bundle of talented players we will need to sign next year, most of whom think they will be worth some money.
sure that doesn’t explain not spending a little but we need the cap space for later on. Once we sign our youngsters then we will know what cap space we have left to work with
That makes me feel better. Next year the club will be paying more for what’s on the ice right now.
4th biggest pessimist of MHH.
"There's always next season." -- Jimmy Howard on not winning the Calder Trophy.
by Dixomatic on Nov 21, 2011 11:43 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
If that’s all we get… enough. I’m outta here. I’ll go watch the Eagles. Who knows, they could end up in the AHL next year despite their “too small” arena.
My Eno$ itches
by Busted Twigg on Nov 21, 2011 12:10 PM MST up reply actions
and hey lol
Florida is still in the bottom 10 of the league in terms of money spent. So there goes that.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Nov 20, 2011 9:50 PM MST up reply actions
But you're absolutely right!
Fleishmann is totally worth $4.5 million per season.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Nov 20, 2011 9:50 PM MST up reply actions
...through 19 games.
You know right now there are over 30 players in the NHL averaging right around 1 ppg. The end of last year there were right around 12. But absolutely, dude. Continue to base everything off of 1/4 of a season.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Nov 20, 2011 9:54 PM MST up reply actions
...
This is a joke, right?
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Nov 20, 2011 9:56 PM MST up reply actions
I doubt the Avs could have kept Flash no matter what they were willing to pay. I’m not an expert, but the Altitude and travel were issues concerning his health.
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
Footer: We'll miss seeing you clear the riff raff off your lawn.
by Americanario on Nov 20, 2011 9:52 PM MST up reply actions
Hard losing a guy with one good NHL season
and who has never played a 82 games in a season before.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Nov 20, 2011 9:55 PM MST up reply actions
Occasionally.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Nov 20, 2011 9:57 PM MST up reply actions
Hard to believe you're still so upset
that we lost a guy whose career year was 51 points. I sure as hell hope management doesn’t pony up $4.5M per season for David Jones when those contract negotiations take place.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Nov 20, 2011 9:58 PM MST up reply actions
fair enough, and hard work goes a long way. But man oh man, hearing the names called out by the announcers tonight, the difference in star power and pure talent was mind boggling
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Nov 20, 2011 10:22 PM MST up reply actions
I would never disagree with that
nor did I at all. I just don’t think the sentiment applied on a night when I felt the Avs were consistently dictating.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Nov 20, 2011 10:27 PM MST up reply actions
We took it to the Sharks?
It was one and done all period…none of those shots were actually legit chances…they were probably laughing at how many low percentages shots we were taking.
Paul Stastny did, what Paul Stastny does. Score big goals.
When they got the 3-1 lead, the Sharks schooled the Avs on how to maintain a lead. The Sharks took no penalties, and played smart hockey with no mistakes. After they got their third goal, they were in command of this game.
...holy freaking f*ck, snakes!
The Sharks took no penalties,
Not true. The took penalties. They just weren’t called for them.
Again, refs missed tons both ways and as long as that’s consistent, I don’t have an issue. But calling Johnson on that interference and subsequently not calling a similar hit – with the puck much further away – on the dude that hit Porter less than two minutes later? That’s the kind of thing that pisses me off.
Duchene may be the face of this franchise, but O’Reilly is the heart. - Guitarpick8120
by Cheryl Bradley on Nov 21, 2011 8:05 AM MST up reply actions
Anyone at the Avs game tonight? If so did you see me win the Arby’s sandwich race for the 2nd Intermission? I was Team Beef’n’Cheddar (which I named and Connor ran with). Bigg ups to season ticket holder Omar (my teammate) who took a Jimmy Snuka Frogsplash as we won the race against Team Big Montana (the opposing team’s name I also coined).
From what I saw tonight, we took our foot off the pedal after that first goal. Everyone except Matty D. After the Marleau hatter he was pissed, I saw him pitchfork a few of the hats. The fact that we got one power play is concerning. Our undisciplined play was a tad lopsided.
I imagine that having Highlander in there instead of Kobaru would have been better. Cody would’ve fought after the Sharks tied it up.
How could play so unmotivated after these Fish played in Dallas the night before? And I always love seeing Shark fans brag it up in regular season games because I know that they’ll choke in the playoffs. They always choke—ALWAYS.
Anyway, one more loss on this home stand and Sacco must be relieved of duty. I’m sorry but I have to agree with what was said before—Sacco isn’t the disease, but he obviously isn’t the cure either.
by quietstorm560 on Nov 20, 2011 9:42 PM MST via iPhone app reply actions
I was there and saw that! Looked like the dude from the other team was wearing slippers, he had no chance. Win anything good?
by xskatebakerrx on Nov 20, 2011 10:00 PM MST up reply actions
We won a nameless Avs jersey and a flexfit hat. The jersey was too small and Omar took the Frogsplash so I gave it to him and I took the hat.
The other guy slipped a bit. I wanted to try to use the ice but didn’t want to lose my lead. After the race, I was struggling to breath but it was amazing being down on the ice.
by quietstorm560 on Nov 20, 2011 10:07 PM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
Congrats on the race!
Sounds like silly fun.
"Adventure? Excitement? Jedi craves not these things." - James Dean, Easy Rider
Dame Corsi and I are close to breaking up
She breaks my heart too often these days.
Fucking Pavelski and his +2
Man’s a machine
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Nov 20, 2011 10:04 PM MST up reply actions
This is why these stats confuse me.
Their goalie was -18?
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Nov 20, 2011 10:06 PM MST up reply actions
Ryan Wilson makes things happen, apparently.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Nov 20, 2011 10:07 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah
I get that. I just…why are the goalies included at all?
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Nov 20, 2011 10:12 PM MST up reply actions
I suppose that makes sense
It just seems like goalies are measured in completely different ways. I like your answer. makes sense.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Nov 20, 2011 10:18 PM MST up reply actions
I like that goalies are included, it makes it easy to look at the total teams stats.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 20, 2011 11:37 PM MST up reply actions
Read all comments in thread before commenting.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 20, 2011 11:37 PM MST up reply actions
I dont understand Corsi, if someone can give me the guide book for understanding it then I will be very grateful
by avalanchejef on Nov 20, 2011 10:11 PM MST up reply actions
Not worth understanding IMO
The fact that the Avs defy corsi repeatedly reinforces this more
by Freakoffaleash on Nov 20, 2011 10:14 PM MST up reply actions
I have no idea if you're being sarcastic or not
but I wholeheartedly endorse this attitude.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Nov 20, 2011 10:18 PM MST up reply actions
No, definitely not being sarcastic. I still think hockey metrics are a whole lot muddier than baseball metrics, but the baseball people who only rely on wins and batting average are dinosaurs.
Definitely
It’s going to take a long time but it’s still just another useful tool of evaluation and there’s nothing wrong with that. My frequent mocking of Edmonton/Calgary SBN sites comes as a result of a seeming reliance on such things and I don’t think hockey metrics are at the point where you can heavily lean on them like that.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Nov 20, 2011 10:26 PM MST up reply actions
While I agree on an analytical, and long term, level,
The people who rely only on advanced stats such as Corsi and Fenwick are going to see their enjoyment of the game succumb to a bitterness I have seen but rarely.
It’s all in how you use them, I think. (Insert TW joke here)
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
In the last 4 years or so I’ve gone from not relying on advanced stats at all, to really looking at them closely. My enjoyment of the game hasn’t succumbed at all.
I don’t really understand this setiment to be honest. Some people don’t like numbers and analysis, and that’s all well and good. But some people do, I honestly enjoy it. I find it fascinating.
People who rely on advanced stats in baseball don’t enjoy baseball any less than those who don’t. There’s no one right way to enjoy a sport.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 21, 2011 7:27 AM MST up reply actions
The only way to enjoy tennis for me
is by checking out attractive Russian females. I tend to think that’s the right way.
I love it
2 Wing fans disagreeing about a potential deal for Shea Weber in the comments section of a post about the Avalanche.
Winging It In Motown
by Amerinadian on Sep 12, 2011 9:51 AM PDT up reply 1 recs
Also the best way to enjoy Russians.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 21, 2011 8:47 AM MST up reply actions
Or, really, people.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 21, 2011 8:47 AM MST up reply actions
By watching tennis?
Or just by putting them in small skirts?
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
You would not want to see me in a small skirt.
My Eno$ itches
by Busted Twigg on Nov 21, 2011 9:49 AM MST up reply actions
Watching russian women in short skirts is the best way to enjoy people.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 21, 2011 10:04 AM MST up reply actions
My baseline for this remark is seeing how bitter the people at M&G get when they are doing well in advanced stats but still losing a lot of games.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
So when the avs regress to the mean and start winning you’ll renounce this right… ?
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 20, 2011 11:39 PM MST up reply actions
But what if they don’t ? (bear with me here). My problem with assuming “luck” is that is the determining factor and that skill plays no level, nor does any “intangible”, is that it begs the question- so what if I, Joe Scrub, go out on the ice? Do I get the same amount of points? Or do I just have “Bad Luck”? Or maybe, just maybe, there are guys out there who are pretty fucking good at hockey, and you really just can’t quantify their skill? Because ALL of the guys at the NHL level are pretty good at hockey, and if you want to qualify that with luck, OK, but I disagree.
Luck to me is where a guy who has NO business being out there scores/ makes a great play/ whatever. First person to mention Lindstrom or Kobasew can go die in a tire fire.
I’m sorry, I really can’t string together too much of an argument on this right now. The basics are there for a fan post, but not together yet. My biggest beef is with the term “luck” though. Because everything I’ve read from the advanced stats guys seems to read like “Sidney Crosby with some luck there” “Alex Ovechkin with some luck there” and I’m calling BS.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
Luck to me is where a guy who has NO business being out there scores/ makes a great play/ whatever.
I think this is a big place where advanced stats people and non-stats people really butt heads, and it’s really the definition of luck. That’s not how advanced stats people define luck, at all. I try and call it random chance as much as possible, because that’s what it is.
I think most advanced stats people do not think Sidney Crosby is lucky. He, like everyone else, has stretches and plays of good fortune and bad fortune, but over many games his skill will shine through.
Look at Patrick Marleau’s goal tip in goal last night. There’s a ton of skill involved in creating that goal. He won the puck in the corner back to his defenseman. Then he beat his man out of the corner. He went to the right place, and reached at the right time, and angled his stick at the right angle. Patrick Marleau is an extremly good hockey player, with a ton of skill, and he made an extremly good hockey play that most humans on this planet could not make. That skill put him in the position to tip that shot perfectly up over Giguere’s shoulder.
That said… Patrick Marleau isn’t so good that he can make that tip 10 times out of 10. or 5 times out of 10 even. I bet, under similar conditions, he only scores a goal on that play 1 time out of ten, despite all the skill he used to create the opportunity. There also had to be a good amount of fortune (for the sharks) to go into that goal too. Had the puck been angled ever so slightly differently when it hit his stick, it may have deflected into Giguere instead, or off the crossbar. Or it could have deflected wide. IT could have broken his stick. Next time the defender could read the play better and be in a position to defend the play. The shot from the point could be 3 cm higher. Giguere could be out of good position, but in the way of the puck. etc, etc, etc.
So in a sense, yeah Marleau got lucky in that he scored a goal that he wouldn’t score 9 times out of ten. At the same time, he used skill to create an opportunity that 99 players out of 100 do not have the skill to create. That’s why counting Corsi (which is essentially scoring chances) is so valuable to stats people but ± is worthless. Marleau can create chances (Corsi events) and let the chips fall where they may. ± is measuring how the chips fell.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 21, 2011 7:47 AM MST up reply actions
You’re right. This is where we butt heads.
Maybe it is purely semantics, but something just rubs me the wrong way in a lot of the advanced stats discussions.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
But, but, but. Here’s what I don’t understand. What if the Avs have already regressed to the mean and this is their actual level? Not the hot start for the last few years, but this. Right now. What if this is the median of their ability?
"Wisdom requires a flexible mind" - Dan Carlin
Well the stats between last season and this season are comepletely different. This isn’t the same team as last year, so comparison’s to the two seem incredibly flawed.
So for the way the team is playing this season: They still have quite a bit of regression (in the good way) to go. Here’s a small example:
Varlamov is better than an ECHL goalie, yet his stats are what I’d expect if one got called up. Varlamov has a lot of regressing to do, but in a good way.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 21, 2011 10:08 AM MST up reply actions
We hope he advances to the mean?
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
considering the mean is about .910 save%, and he’s sitting at .890… yes. zz
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 21, 2011 1:02 PM MST up reply actions
Sorry, trying to make a joke out of my semantics issue.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
It’s the shot differential while a player is on the ice. Not only goals and shots on goal, but also shots that miss the net. Blocked shots either are or are not counted, with the other one then being Fenwick, which some people think is a better metric than Corsi.
It’s basically a way to get an idea of time of possession, right? If you are more used to thinking of time of possession in a football game. Players with higher Corsi keep control of the puck more.
by vtcapsfan99 on Nov 21, 2011 12:51 AM MST up reply actions
Yes
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 21, 2011 8:47 AM MST up reply actions
I personally apologize for the loss. The fam is like 0 for 4 this season. Seems my gorgeous child is bad luck. We got on the jumbotron though!
Congrats on the Jumbotron, must have been cool
And thanks for resigning from attending any more games. Very mature of you.
The baby gets on every time we go! I strap a big burgundy and blue bow on her and she’s irresistible! But yeah, I am not going to another game for awhile!
by xskatebakerrx on Nov 20, 2011 10:08 PM MST up reply actions
GOOD.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Nov 20, 2011 10:09 PM MST up reply actions
Congrats on the Jumbotron. Dater says the Jumbotron is really bad, so did your little baby look like Princess Daisy a la’ Mario on the Famicom?
"Wisdom requires a flexible mind" - Dan Carlin
Commodore 64, or Atari quality
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
Compared to the Jumbotron in Dallas it isn’t even close. That one in American Airlines arena is like 20 feet of HD awesomeness.
by quietstorm560 on Nov 21, 2011 3:40 PM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
Just a few points
1) Losing sucks. Didn’t like it in 96, 01, last year and now.
2) I am not frustrated with this loss just frustrated with how we loss. I really thought this would have been a good test for our team and seeing us exit the zone and playing a solid game. We still played against the Sharks better then the last playoffs.
3) I am a bit disappointed in Hejduk’s play in the last couple of games. He needs to start stepping his game up and helping Duchene out.
4) Thank You Joe for finally putting SOS, Landy, Radar, Duchene, Jones and Duke in out top six. Can we give it a game and see how it works out.
5) We are a gifted team with speed. Can we please start using this speed to draw penalties. Let’s use this speed to play physical, because every time we have done this we have dominated play. DOMINATED.
6) Please kick the shit out of the nucks. I know we can beat this team.
7) For all of you complaining about not spending money, I can almost promise the Avs will spend at least $10 million more. I going on a limb here, I am calling the Avs will land a big time winger this summer. Not in trade.
I hope so
because that means either Semin or Parise. They’re the only big-time wingers available this next off-season. Some really intriguing second-tier guys like Huselius/Doan/Hemsky. Not really a big fan of Semin, though (sex joke INC). Dude has no heart.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Nov 20, 2011 10:12 PM MST up reply actions
After watching Alexander Semin several seasons, I wouldn’t say he has no heart. He does, he cares, he’s just really introverted and he’s very inconsistent and prone to stupid penalties. It’s to the point now that the refs call stupid made up penalties on him when he does nothing, just for being Alexander Semin (for example, Bogosian dumped Semin and threw him to the ice and Semin got the penalty). If you can stand all that, then he’s your guy. Not so sure the Avs are his kind of team though, Slava Malamud has said that he thinks Semin will only want to go to a contender in a nice city.
by vtcapsfan99 on Nov 21, 2011 12:20 AM MST up reply actions
For those of you that were at the game did anything get said on SOB’s Misconduct at end of game or did you guys see anything that caused it fucking altitude was just like haha SOB celebrating his 400th game in lockeroom little early then just briefly mentioned he got a misconduct
by Freakoffaleash on Nov 20, 2011 10:12 PM MST reply actions
The annoying thing is that McNab said right away that SOB was getting a 10-minute misconduct, but then Haynes (or the producer) didn’t follow up on it, and Pete didn’t barge in to further explain. He was at the benches, I’m pretty sure he knew what happened.
It’s a small thing, but god does that broadcast fucking suck.
Ever notice that when Sunnyside is down there it virtually GUARANTEES a loss? I’d like to see the figures on that, but I’m pretty sure him being on the bench destroys any chance of a win that night.
by quietstorm560 on Nov 21, 2011 12:53 AM MST up reply actions
No idea
I didn’t even see O’Brien being told to gtfo. They just announced it and that was all. I’m assuming, like DiD said above, that he said something to the official because it was right after a pretty ridiculous interference call.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Nov 20, 2011 10:19 PM MST up reply actions
Ten Thoughts:
1. This team should be treated like a 3rd year player. We don’t know what sort of identity we’re going to have – we have an idea, but it’s still forming, still developing, still coming together. We have moments of absolute brilliance and moments of absolute stupidity. We’re still learning what we have to do in various situations when we’re on the ice, and sometimes, we make the wrong call. But we’re young, we’re talented, and we’re only going to get better, especially when we get more quality wingers to play with.
2. The Avs aren’t going to out-talent a team like San Jose. They have all of the holes in their roster filled – there’s a reason they’re a Cup Contender this year. The only way we can beat those clubs is to outwork them. You don’t defend them – you use your speed to attack, peppering their goalie with shots and hoping they get tired and make a mistake. We went 8 minutes without a shot on goal to start the 2nd. That allowed them to get enough momentum that they were able to create the 2nd and 3rd goals. The Avs don’t have the pure talent to be one of the top teams in the league, but they can still compete with them if they can figure out a way to attack the opposing net for 60 minutes. Tonight, we didn’t play that way for a full game and it resulted in a loss.
3. Marleau hatty with an empty netter. So predictable. Same old story, same old song and dance.
4. It would be really nice if we could figure out how to get higher percentage shots instead of firing the puck from the outside all the time, but if we keep putting up 40+ shots a night, something will fall eventually. I hope.
5. Duchene’s goal – holy crap. The way he handled that puck on the setup to allow for the entire team to change was UNREAL. When he gets going… I’ve never seen anything like it. He’s not like Forsberg where nobody can touch the puck because of his strength – when Dutchy’s on his game, no one can touch it because of his pure skill and speed. But you have to give Wilson credit – the goal never would have happened if the Sharks didn’t think Wilson could score, or if Wilson didn’t make a sick pass back to Dutchy. Great, great play by both of them, and solid finish by Duchene.
6. STOP TAKING SO MANY PENALTIES, DANMIT!
7. First SJ goal – they passed through our defending box TWICE and got it right to the open far post. We need to work on defending our passing lanes more if our PK is going to get any better.
8. Who knew Mack Truck would be making a case for being a top 4 defenseman? He’s still making the big hits, but his offensive game has been remarkable this year so far. Not only is he getting great shots on net, he’s also making incredibly smart passes on both ends of the ice. He’s been a real bright spot so far this season.
9. I bet Varly’s back in net against the Nucks. Giggy came back down to earth tonight when he had to play a more difficult team. It’s time to give the Ninja Spider a second chance. I’ll be blaring Chelsea Dagger trying to help him win the goaltending duel. Maybe they’ll hear it in Denver.
10. This was probably not the 400th game SOB wanted, especially because he got a misconduct at the end of it. Still, here’s to hoping his 500th game (which will hopefully happen after he signs a nice 3-5 year contract with the Avs this summer) will end better. We still love you, SOB!
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs.
Varly: you're awesome. We love you. Please don't break.
there was one point when Dutchy had the puck in the corner and I think it was Boyle came in to lay a big hit on him and Dutchy hit him way harder and held the puck, it was very forsberg-esque
Size-wise, there’s not a huge difference between Dutchy and Foppa – Forsberg is 1 inch and 5 lbs bigger. But strength-wise, Dutchy still has a way to go. If Duchene can get stronger and harder to push around without sacrificing his speed, he could end up as dangerous as Forsberg offensively, maybe even more so because of his unnatural quickness. He still has a ways to go before he’s as good defensively though – Radar is closer to Foppa in that area.
If you could take Duchene’s offense, O’Reilly’s defense, and Landeskog’s affinity for hitting and put them into one player, you’d end up with someone pretty similar to Forsberg. Given time, I think the three of them may surpass the skill of the Great Swede in their specific areas, but the reason Foppa was so awesome is that he had it all. I’m still looking forward to watching the three of them develop though. Hopefully they pick up on aspects of each other’s game and turn out to be very well-rounded players. Maybe one day, we can honestly mention them on equal terms with Forsberg and Sakic and wonder when 9, 37, and 92 are headed to the rafters. A girl can hope at least.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs.
Varly: you're awesome. We love you. Please don't break.
Has anyone seen that video where Bob Probert tries to check Foppa and bounces right off? Funny as shit.
It happens about 50 seconds in. Bonus points for Footer who didn’t hesitate taking on the shaved yeti, Probert.
"Wisdom requires a flexible mind" - Dan Carlin
about 9) I thought for the first goal (I think it was, can’t quite recall now), Giggy got a little too far out of the net and then he was out of position. Ninja spider can make faster recovery at least. I kinda wondered about the goal that went in over Giggy’s shoulder. Shouldn’t he have blocked off that upper corner better but maybe I am wrong, I am not goalie expert. Overall I thought Giggy looked ok, but his stats took a hit with .824 save. Not sure about starting Varly for the next game. I guess it depends on if they think he’s made enough progress in practice and is mentally ready for it. If not, I’d keep riding Giggy.
by vtcapsfan99 on Nov 21, 2011 12:27 AM MST up reply actions
On point 1. That is what the Captain is for. Duke needs to instil an identity. I think instead of having an Identity for the team, I want an Identity for the 3 corp positions. The Goalies will have theirs just because Giggy is already developing it. Defense needs to be a tough nose, lawn protecting, crusty bastards. Offense needs to be fast, fast, aggressive, fast, fast, strong checking both back and forward and FAST. We don’t have to be snipers, puck danglers, trash pickup goalies. Then the team identity will come. I would like to even break it down to line identity.
by avalanchejef on Nov 21, 2011 8:51 AM MST up reply actions
Not sure how…but this team needs to learn how to draw penalties…
7-1 this game. 7-1 against Pittsburgh (and no I’m not counting that 3 second PP at the end of the Pens game). San Jose draws less penalties on average than us, yet they had 7 compared to our 1?
I don’t have an answer, nor am I saying they should dive, or embellish, but they need to do something about that disparity. Sometimes it’s a sign of piss poor officiating, other times it’s a sign of not working hard enough and battling and drawing those calls.
We have drawn 70 PPs, 21st in the league. Whereas our next opponent Vancouver has 95, good for 3rd in the league.
We have the speed to draw those penalties, but we just don’t work hard enough some nights (hell Columbus in at 5th and Winnipeg at 11th is living proof that even a crappy team can draw calls.)
Paul Stastny did, what Paul Stastny does. Score big goals.
I thought that in the Dallas game, this team really drew some penalties. Didn’t work last night
"Wisdom requires a flexible mind" - Dan Carlin
The best way to draw penalties is to keep turning your feet or to motor through an interference infraction. What this does is either carries you through the infraction or the infraction is enough to drop you that it hopefully gets called. Either way the team is better off because you got by the man or drew the penalty.
I went back and looked at some cherry-picked stats. I wanted to see how the Avs penalty differential looked against “deep” team (my definition is that they can roll 2+ consistent scoring lines). Here’s the breakdown I had:
-1 vs Detroit (L)
+1 vs Boston (W)
+1 vs Chicago (L)
Even vs Chicago (W)
Even vs Kings (W)
-1 (sorta) vs Detroit (L)
-5 vs Pens (L)
-6 vs Sharks (L)
By my completely made-up metric, they are 3-5 vs deep teams and there’s a decent correlation to the penalty differential. Maybe the reason we have some many penalties called against us when playing these opponents is because our depth can’t handle their depth?
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
WAY off topic...
Well, maybe not too off topic considering this team causes us to drink. I am looking for an online retailer that ships booze stateside. Specifically I’m looking for some good Scotch for my father. I’m willing to spend between 100 and 200 dollars. Also brand/age suggestions are welcome.
I love it
2 Wing fans disagreeing about a potential deal for Shea Weber in the comments section of a post about the Avalanche.
Winging It In Motown
by Amerinadian on Sep 12, 2011 9:51 AM PDT up reply 1 recs
This was rec'd to me here a while ago.
http://www.klwines.com/default.asp
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
Thanks Red!
I love it
2 Wing fans disagreeing about a potential deal for Shea Weber in the comments section of a post about the Avalanche.
Winging It In Motown
by Amerinadian on Sep 12, 2011 9:51 AM PDT up reply 1 recs
Found another site for Scotch
I love it
2 Wing fans disagreeing about a potential deal for Shea Weber in the comments section of a post about the Avalanche.
Winging It In Motown
by Amerinadian on Sep 12, 2011 9:51 AM PDT up reply 1 recs
You just hi-jacked my site. There are a few others that are pretty good. Does he have a favorite or one that he likes? I can easily reccomend from there.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
I've seen him drink Dalmore, but as far as favorites go, no idea.
I love it
2 Wing fans disagreeing about a potential deal for Shea Weber in the comments section of a post about the Avalanche.
Winging It In Motown
by Amerinadian on Sep 12, 2011 9:51 AM PDT up reply 1 recs
i liked the site, so I had to bookmark it. If you didn’t want me hijacking it, you shouldn’t have posted it. :-)
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
Is it really that hard to ref a f’ing game? Really?
Spoon!!!!!!!!
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Nov 20, 2011 11:27 PM MST reply actions
Dutchy's failed two on one in the second
was the game changer. If he shoots or he hits Duke early to draw the defender, it’s possibly a second game. Ahh 20 year olds. So flighty.
BTW Erik Johnson plays for this team right?
by whalers71 on Nov 20, 2011 11:33 PM MST via mobile reply actions
A second game?
I meant different.
Oh whisky
by whalers71 on Nov 20, 2011 11:35 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
You know what? Fuck this shit, The avs said thing would be different, they’re fucking liars. Same old, same old.
Spoon!!!!!!!!
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Nov 20, 2011 11:50 PM MST reply actions
I see some people saying the Avs dictated the third. I didn’t see that at all. What I saw was a San Jose team that said “we’re happy with a 2 goal lead. No need to get risky and give up the counterpunch goal almost this whole team is capable of when we can keep them less than dangerous in our own zone and chip the puck out to change if we want every 20-30 seconds.” And that’s basically what happened. There were a couple times the Avs looked ready to create a chance, but not many, and when it was there the Sharks broke it up without a lot of difficulty. Aside from Matt Duchene Jawdropper of the Week, San Jose took that game and played it exactly how they wanted to all night—much like the adjectives did to us, much like we did to Dallas on Friday.
At exactly what point do you start to realize that life without knowledge is death in disguise?
Stop Suckalanching!
Heart of Cygnus: Shameless self promotion in video form.
by Pinchy The Lobster on Nov 21, 2011 1:27 AM MST reply actions
Weird stat of the night
San Jose wins 83% of the games where they are out shot.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm?fetchKey=20122ALLSAAAll&sort=winPctOutshotByOpponent&viewName=summary
Weird I tell ya.
"Adventure? Excitement? Jedi craves not these things." - James Dean, Easy Rider
Actually, that's to be expected, when the losing team tends to shoot more.
Thought food: if Joe Sacco is fired, Sylvain Lefebvre will be the Avs' new head coach. Think about it.
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: there will be blood and there will be wins.
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
The Number Zero, for everything but mathematics. Blood and Thunder Record: 8-9-1 (Total Record: 9-13-1)
by Tempestuous Binary on Nov 21, 2011 8:22 AM MST up reply actions
It might be interesting to see their average score after the first and second periods. They probably jump out front pretty early.
My Eno$ itches
by Busted Twigg on Nov 21, 2011 9:15 AM MST up reply actions
Not a bit surprised.
But….
I think this team showed a lot more desire to win than I have seen so far this season. They were just outclassed by a better team.
I honestly think they played pretty good. There’s just a bit o work to be done. (And I really hope they keep it up or I’ma have to tell BR to quit hacking my account)
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
Well, there goes our one game winning streak.
I have never heard more “the team played better than the score” or “this team is better than it’s record” garbage, then this team so far this year.
If all of that is true, you would start to see improvements in the standings. I don’t care how much “better” the team is than it’s record. At the end of the year, nothing matters but W’s and L’s…and I want to see more W’s, not more “well, a bounce here or there and we had them.”
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
If all of that is true, you would start to see improvements in the standings
I bet you do. And I bet Devils fans had a lot more “unlucky breaks” last season
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 21, 2011 1:20 PM MST up reply actions
The biggest being that they were Devils fans. That is pretty fucking unlucky. It basically correlates strongly to living in New Jersey.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
I think Joe Sacco is a pretty cool guy, eh bets money against his team and doesn’t afraid of anything
2011 Colorado Avalanche - Dr. Jones can't suture this coaching wound.
The 2011 Buffalo Bills - Where we learn that signing a mediocre QB for 50+ Million dollars is just as good an idea as it sounds.
Burgundy Wave - SBnation's home for the Colorado Rapids
Crystal Palace FC - We'll take mid-table, thank you.
FUBAR
Pepsi Center Observations:
I purposely have not read anyone else’s comments here, or Dater or whatever. I wanted this to be my discernments…right or wrong.
This team might as well have 19 guys off the street if all you looked at was the way they communicated with each other on the ice. It was virtually silent out there. Non-verbally was just as bad. I don’t know what is going on in the “room”, but on the ice shows it isn’t good. Whatever was gained on the early road trip from a team standpoint is gone.
As individuals then, versus team, they are a freaked out bunch. A half step slow, a hesitation on the pass there, pinching indecision’s, is not just about talent. Its about either being way pissed off internally or playing out of some kind of robotic fear in the system. Probably both.
This team lacks leadership. I know, duh? But until I felt it in person (my first live game this year) I had no idea how bad it is. The guy’s on this team who could lead have been enuched by Sacco IMO. Playing Stats with Porter and Yip is beyond my ability to understand. But surely Sacco had something in mind. Message sending? Matchups? But the psychological effect of these kinds of moves over two years has taken a mighty toll. More than we as fans get I think. Any benefit from this BS is gone. It has reached a point of no return between Sacco and his team.
I have posted before about the dilution of talent with Sacco’s lines and especially as it relates to 5 on 5 scoring against good teams. Barring Duchenes brilliant individual play (good pass Wilson though) the Avs chances of scoring in this game 5 on 5 was slim and none. And I texted that 5 minutes into the game to my son. Seriously, I felt like the Sharks were playing a scrimmage. Unbelievable. And to a man the Avs knew it. They were disheartened early in this game as they lost battle after battle in the corners.
I’m no expert on x’s and o’s or Corsi or whatever. But don’t be fooled by the shot totals, it meant absolutely nothing in this game. Greiss did nothing special, he didn’t have to. This was no fluke. We played without heart, passion and giving it up for the other guy. It was really kind of sad.
So here is my take. Until Sacco, and his support staff, are gone we are toast. We may have flashes of hope but it is fools gold. We are not the most talented team around but we now in a cycle of underachieving that can’t be fixed with this coaching staff or line changes or goalie coaches or systems or even a left winger. It has now gone beyond talent to something very deep in each player. They don’t believe anymore. And Sacco will not be the man to turn that around. Period. He has lost this team.
This could get very ugly before AVs management has the guts to either realize it or act upon it. That is the real ugly news.
by Digit on Nov 21, 2011 7:00 AM MST reply actions 6 recs
I hope you are wrong, but I fear you could be right.
My Eno$ itches
by Busted Twigg on Nov 21, 2011 8:26 AM MST up reply actions
I think a lot of Avalanche faithful have felt this is the problem for a while. This homestand is a critical juncture for this season. I’ve been patient but if they don’t win out the rest of theses home games, you have to pull the plug—5 regulation wins in 55 games? Color how you’d like, that’s just downright horrible.
by quietstorm560 on Nov 21, 2011 8:32 AM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
Shows what you know. At current performance levels, year-over-year profit margins are exceeding projections. Furthermore, as expected, revenue generated from established streams as well as increased convenience value adds is making up for customer disenfranchisement. The product is working as intended.
4th biggest pessimist of MHH.
"There's always next season." -- Jimmy Howard on not winning the Calder Trophy.
by Dixomatic on Nov 21, 2011 8:38 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
All that money when we had the 2nd worst record on the ice, but had the 2nd highest ticket prices went where exactly? To put that Nuggets debacle on the floor? To purchase the aforementioned craptacular Jumbotron?
Yep Greg from Accounting is following the company line. KSE is a joke.
by quietstorm560 on Nov 21, 2011 3:49 PM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
You..
Need to take your ideas and your opinions and get the heck out of here! SACCO FOUR LIFEE!
Keep shuffling the lines, that will fix it.
by Tony Trujillo on Nov 21, 2011 11:24 AM MST up reply actions
Giveaways
I agree with many of the comments above, but to me the big difference was the mistakes we made as we left? our zone. I counted at least 10 times when we turned the puck over. At least 2 ended up in our net.
Brandon Yip
amazed this didn’t get more mention. That was a stupid, stupid penalty
I am the most humble blogger of all time
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Nov 21, 2011 8:13 AM MST reply actions
More or less ruined any comeback chance. But did you see the Sharks player try to tomahawk him on the ground?
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
Good officiating there (not), but Yip was a fool.
Varly!
by niwotsblessing on Nov 21, 2011 8:26 AM MST up reply actions
I will be surprised if he does not get at least a 1 game suspension. That was an intentional hit to the head with a stick.
by avalanchejef on Nov 21, 2011 9:21 AM MST up reply actions
Like Clusterbuck gave Silent Jay in Minne? He received nothing of note for it.
by quietstorm560 on Nov 21, 2011 3:51 PM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
As stupid as it was it does not compare to Kyle Quincey taking an uncessary tripping penalty in the 1st period where the Avs are controlling play with a 1-0 lead. Until this young team learns that the game is played different depending on the clock, period and score they will continue to have these fits of inconsistant play.
I'll keep this brief.
Honestly, watching the game I thought the call was bullshit (but then again when watching games I almost always think calls against the avs are bullshit) but over at the Denver Post website they have an article covering it where Quincey describes what happened and it’s exactly what I thought I saw and why I was complaining at the time.
“It was a bad call. I don’t know what else to say,” Quincey said after the Avs fell to 3-7 at home. “My stick is on the ice, on the puck, and I get a penalty for tripping. I just outmuscled the guy. He trips on his own stick. We had good momentum until that. It’s disappointing. It’s frustrating.”
“That one was a little bit questionable,” Avs coach Joe Sacco said of the call on Quincey.
Not really sure what was going on with the line combinations tonight. Definitely a head scratcher, Porter-Stastny-Yip? Really Joe Sacco
I love that when a fan doesn’t know something the immediate assumption is that the coach is a dumbass.
Thought food: if Joe Sacco is fired, Sylvain Lefebvre will be the Avs' new head coach. Think about it.
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: there will be blood and there will be wins.
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
The Number Zero, for everything but mathematics. Blood and Thunder Record: 8-9-1 (Total Record: 9-13-1)
by Tempestuous Binary on Nov 21, 2011 8:21 AM MST reply actions
To be fair, it seems fairly ridiculous to me too.
I have defended Sacco, sort of, but I am with doctor on his line combos. I don’t get why he feels the need to mix-and-match skill and grit, for lack of a better term. (Not that skilled players can’t be gritty). I don’t know why our top-6 isn’t some combination of these six players: Stastny-Duchene-Hejduk-O’Reilly-Landeskog-Jones. Not only that, why hasn’t our top esixe ever been a combo of these six. Having Stastny with Yip & Porter and then dooubleshifting like he did the last 2 games seems like it’s not maximizing potential.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 21, 2011 8:46 AM MST up reply actions
The team just doesn’t have enough wing depth to split our three best players over three lines. It makes no sense to limit the ice time of Duchene, Stastny and O’Reilly to the same as Porter, Yip, Galiardi and Winnik.
4th biggest pessimist of MHH.
"There's always next season." -- Jimmy Howard on not winning the Calder Trophy.
that line did fairly well against Dallas, so I don’t have a huge problem with going back to it.
and I like the effort to try to find 3 fairly adequate lines instead of having 2 good likes and 2 lines of suck. didn’t work last night, but did on Friday
I am the most humble blogger of all time
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Nov 21, 2011 8:57 AM MST up reply actions
I am expecting a trade between Thanksgiving and January 1st.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
Let’s see where we are on February 27 (trade deadline).
My Eno$ itches
by Busted Twigg on Nov 21, 2011 8:59 AM MST up reply actions
It will be Wilson…because I just bought his jersey but won’t get it for 4-6 weeks.
Duchene may be the face of this franchise, but O’Reilly is the heart. - Guitarpick8120
by Cheryl Bradley on Nov 21, 2011 9:02 AM MST up reply actions
Given his level of play, he definitely has trade value.
My Eno$ itches
by Busted Twigg on Nov 21, 2011 9:07 AM MST up reply actions
If he plays in 6 more games, you’re ok.
I think the cutoff on ym old jersey wearing post is 155 games with the franchise. Wilson’s at 149. at 155 the player becomes an avs alum for life, IMO, meaning wearing his sweater will never be out of style (unless some ill will happens)
(with a Ray Bourque exception in there)
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 21, 2011 9:13 AM MST up reply actions
Quincey has been arguably our best defenseman this season. Does that mean we send him to Toronto for a second before the draft?
My Eno$ itches
by Busted Twigg on Nov 21, 2011 9:18 AM MST up reply actions
Quincey was a great D man in the first 10 games. He’s not been good since then in my opinion.
I'll keep this brief.
His positioning has been lackluster after a really good start.
Didn’t he do something similar in his first year with the Avs?
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
He's done it his whole career: good start and then falls off.
Thought food: if Joe Sacco is fired, Sylvain Lefebvre will be the Avs' new head coach. Think about it.
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: there will be blood and there will be wins.
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
The Number Zero, for everything but mathematics. Blood and Thunder Record: 8-9-1 (Total Record: 9-13-1)
by Tempestuous Binary on Nov 21, 2011 10:08 AM MST up reply actions
I love us fans sometimes.
(This is in no way aimed at Dario, but at the narrative and conversation on this site in general. This just seems the best place to throw this in)
Last week: The Avs are allowing way too many high quality shots, our defense sucks
This week Let’s trade away one of our defenders whose playing the best for some offense.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 21, 2011 10:10 AM MST up reply actions
I think that we as fans had some pretty high expectations for this year. The current reality is setting in and we are unhappy.
If nothing else, this team is inconsistent. They played arguably their best game of the year against Dallas, then got tactically manhandled by San Jose last night. I think what Dater said, that this is an adolescent team, is right. They don’t yet know who or what they want to be when they grow up, and they certainly don’t know who they are now.
My Eno$ itches
by Busted Twigg on Nov 21, 2011 10:21 AM MST up reply actions
They played arguably their best game of the year against Dallas, then got tactically manhandled by San Jose last night.
I disagree with this. Sharks fans do too (I have a lot of sharks fans in my twitter feed. The conversation was, generally, yeesh, glad we won but I wish we didn’t get outplayed so badly, especially in the 1st and third. I just wish this team would put in a full 60 minute effort, and not this 20-minute effort thing. Those sentiments sound vaguely familiar)
That said…
. I think what Dater said, that this is an adolescent team, is right. They don’t yet know who or what they want to be when they grow up, and they certainly don’t know who they are now.
Isn’t this what everyone expected this season? We knew we had a young team, and we knew they would be inconsistent because of it. That they would go through a bad slump and some high highs. Even if I think that’s a bit cliche’, the fact is that’s what should have been expected based on the roster right?
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 21, 2011 10:35 AM MST up reply actions
I’ll stick to my statement that San Jose tactically manhandled the Avs last night. Griess had no difficult saves. The shots that were getting through were from the walls, often below the dots, and the few from the point had little to no traffic in front. It was probably a pretty easy 30+ shot night.
Yeah, the Avs got a lot of shots, but they were the shots that the Sharks were willing to let go. When the game was in doubt, San Jose was getting the better chances and the game was more even positionally. When they got ahead, they used their size to push everything to the outside and waited for the final horn. Great road game.
My Eno$ itches
by Busted Twigg on Nov 21, 2011 10:45 AM MST up reply actions
Yeah, the Avs got a lot of shots, but they were the shots that the Sharks were willing to let go.
This is exactly what people said about Phoenix, then I went back and looked and the avs got a ton of good chances against them. I’ll look tonight, but I’m going to guess it just felt like this because they didn’t go in.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 21, 2011 11:41 AM MST up reply actions
I’m sure Griess has a bruise on his sternum from all the pucks that hit the Sharks logo. I’d like to see what the scoring chance stats say (unfortunately stats page on NHL.com doesn’t include scoring chances). I’d guess they were about even despite a 2-1 shot advantage for the Avs.
My Eno$ itches
by Busted Twigg on Nov 21, 2011 12:18 PM MST up reply actions
You know, I also thought that many of our shots were too high, especially one in the 3rd when Stastny was to Greiss’s left from a bad angle and shot high when it seemed like a low shot might have produced a rebound for one of the Avs who was in front of the next.
But then I remembered that Stastny actually scored off a rebound from a high shot by Landeskog in the Dallas win, so who knows?
I did notice us with many high shots – I wonder if that’s the book on Greiss.
AJ and I were talking about that shot of Stastny’s last night. It seems he does that shot a lot, and we surmised it must be because the the kind of rebound it might create. Have no idea if that’s true, but whatever the reason, SoS does it so frequently it has to be intentional.
Duchene may be the face of this franchise, but O’Reilly is the heart. - Guitarpick8120
by Cheryl Bradley on Nov 21, 2011 1:01 PM MST up reply actions
I’ll make sure I include this game when I count scoring chances tonight. It’s pretty simple, the NHL.com highlights in the game summary has a ton of the shots from the game. You can count the scoring chances just by watching the goals and shots highlights.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 21, 2011 1:06 PM MST up reply actions
Isn’t this what everyone expected this season? We knew we had a young team, and we knew they would be inconsistent because of it. That they would go through a bad slump and some high highs. Even if I think that’s a bit cliche’, the fact is that’s what should have been expected based on the roster right?
Oh, hell no.
If so, then Sherman should be fired this minute for trading what likely is a top five pick despite expecting this to happen.
After last season, the going concern was defense and goaltending. People said the offense was fine, but the other two areas needed to be addressed. The Avs revamped the D and brought in two new goaltenders. Expectations to at least not suck rose accordingly. Despite these changes, the Avs are among the worst in the league in goals against, the offense is sputtering, and Sherman is now looking like he mortgaged the future.
4th biggest pessimist of MHH.
"There's always next season." -- Jimmy Howard on not winning the Calder Trophy.
I guess that’s what I was expecting. My predictions was a #9 spot in the west. Right now they are in 12th and 3 pts out of the 9 spot.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 21, 2011 11:42 AM MST up reply actions
Again, right there with you.
I predicted 9-11th. Maybe that’s why I’m not so upset about what’s happening right now.
Duchene may be the face of this franchise, but O’Reilly is the heart. - Guitarpick8120
by Cheryl Bradley on Nov 21, 2011 1:02 PM MST up reply actions
I was thinking 10th, with a higher point total than last year and the over in points for whatever the over/under was on that betting website at the beginning of the season.
Last night was a bucket of horseshit. We’re a team that lives on the razor’s edge, and we can’t afford to make any mistakes. Even the small ones.
Duke loses a battle on the boards, Duchene charges the shot instead of staying with Marleau, and it’s 2-1.
Jones cheats a little and tries to leave the zone a little early, the puck bounces off his skate, stays in the zone, finds the league’s best passer behind the net, and it’s 3-1.
I was talking to AJ about that last night. Other teams are capitalizing on the Avs’ mistakes at an alarming rate. The Avs are not doing the same to the other team, at least not at the same frequency. This needs to change.
Duchene may be the face of this franchise, but O’Reilly is the heart. - Guitarpick8120
by Cheryl Bradley on Nov 21, 2011 3:18 PM MST up reply actions
Which defender is playing the best, Quincey?
To me, your bottom two defensemen don’t really mean much unless they are performers on special teams. Roll your top four, protect your bottom two and hope one of them can chip in on the PK or PP if they are the loose cannon type.
I'll keep this brief.
I thought the top 4 were Johnson-Hejda and Quincey-O’Brien.
My Eno$ itches
by Busted Twigg on Nov 21, 2011 11:21 AM MST up reply actions
Our top 4 are really more like a top 6. We don’t have any real studs, but we don’t have any real duds either. As of late, each of our pairings have been equally good/horrible and have been getting about the same amount of TOI (15-17 minutes depending on special teams).
However, if you had to pick a “top 4”, those would be the ones I’d go with, even though it pains me to leave out Wilson.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs.
Varly: you're awesome. We love you. Please don't break.
Wilson is keeping my attention as well. He’s always been a good hitter, but his overall play has picked up in the defensive end, and that pass to Duchene for the goal in the 1st last night was just sick. He managed to get the whole Sharks team to forget about Duchene on that play before letting the pass go. It’s really the only mistake San Jose made last night.
My Eno$ itches
by Busted Twigg on Nov 21, 2011 11:33 AM MST up reply actions
Wilson, (although I think Quincey is still playing well)
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 21, 2011 11:34 AM MST up reply actions
I guess if the goal is to try and balance out ice time over the year, then that’s not the worst strategy. I’d like to see the top players get a little more ice time right now. For whatever reason, the Avs are struggling to score points, I’d put more responsibility on the good players and try to ride them out of this slump. I think the Avs will come out of it, but riding Stastny, Duchene and Hejduk a little more right now might help them come out of it quicker.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 21, 2011 8:59 AM MST up reply actions
I’d like to see two very good top lines and then have the bottom six go full-on Phoenix. If those bottom guys can just hold serve defensively, that should give the top two lines a better chance to make their points be the difference makers.
4th biggest pessimist of MHH.
"There's always next season." -- Jimmy Howard on not winning the Calder Trophy.
They were the same line combos that produced at 3-0 win over Dallas two nights before.
There’s not a helluva lot to work with at the forward spot, folks. And there’s no clear-cut solution. There is a real lack of talent, especially among the top 6. I think that every possible combo has its pros and cons.
Yep, and the only way to fix it is either through A) vastly overpaying or giving up something we still need for a good wing, B) taking a risk and trading for or signing an under-preforming forward, which has a roughly 50/50 chance of panning out (see: Fleischmann, Mueller, Winnik, Lindstrom, and Kobasew), or C) figuring out a way to get a prospect/pick and being patient while they develop.
This team doesn’t seem to like quick fixes. My bet is that we’ll see B) or C) if things haven’t turned around by Christmas, but other than that, we just have to be patient and make do with what we have.
Although I would like to see consistent lines for a change. Even if it is these crazy ones, can we please give them more than a game or two before completely tossing them under the bus?
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs.
Varly: you're awesome. We love you. Please don't break.
There was a telling statistic that Altitude posted during the game. The average age of the Sharks is 2 years older than the Avs. That doesn’t seem like much until you realize that spread across 23 players, that’s 46 years of experience. 46 years is roughly 4 NHL careers.
The Sharks didn’t out hustle the Avs. They out smarted them. Marleau’s goals didn’t come from sick skill, they came from being in the right place. That’s what experience buys. The third period was entirely controlled by San Jose. The Avs had the puck, but they were allowed to have it in an area around 4 feet from the boards outward. If it came out of that space, San Jose launched it into neutral ice. The calls were unbalanced largely because the Avs were flailing around and the Sharks played a more controlled game. Again, that’s experience.
I’m feeling better after last night, strangely enough. The Avs will be at least where the Sharks are in 2 years assuming KSE starts investing. The two teams are similarly constructed.
My Eno$ itches
That’s a big assumption at this point
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
KSE is about maximizing return. Letting an asset like the Pepsi Center go un-filled has to be killing the KSE bean counters. Even though Eno$ is fixated on his futbol/football properties, they have to see the Avs as financially under-performing. They will never again be the free spending Avs of the PL era, but these are businessmen. They have to realize that a relatively small investment can turn on a revenue stream like the Pepsi Center. Like I’ve said before, KSE has my attention until 1 year from the coming trade deadline. If all that happens between now and then is retaining their better RFAs, I’m gone.
My Eno$ itches
by Busted Twigg on Nov 21, 2011 8:56 AM MST up reply actions
Yeah, but in the past who have they been spending their big money on? Buyout on Preissing, keeping Mueller on IR, but still keeping his salary on the books to be at the floor. Kobasew, Darcy Tucker…so just because you start spending the money doesn’t mean they are going to spend it right
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
There’s a difference this season. More is on the line and the model itself is at risk. It is much more likely they will spend this year than last year.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
I think Sherman will be opportunistic at the deadline. We’re not going to be seeing rentals. If we’re not in playoff position, he might offload a few players for draft picks and if a strong player is being shopped, we might see a pickup or two. I do think this coming offseason and the following trade deadline have to be different. If not, they lose the rest of their rationally loyal fan base. That’s hard on revenue and the bean counters will scream.
My Eno$ itches
by Busted Twigg on Nov 21, 2011 10:32 AM MST up reply actions
It’s not been time to spend yet, but that time is coming up soon. Our core is pretty much set and by the deadline/next off season, it’s time to start bringing in the final pieces. Whether it’s by trading for players or draft picks, I expect a few new wingers by this time next year. If we don’t have them, we’re going to be in serious trouble. If they aren’t here, I’m sure I can borrow a pitchfork for the OCCUPY ENOS! riot from someone.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs.
Varly: you're awesome. We love you. Please don't break.
You can borrow one of mine. Just stop in at the Fort on your way down I-25.
My Eno$ itches
by Busted Twigg on Nov 21, 2011 11:26 AM MST up reply actions
Oh, okay. I’ll be sure to remember that. I’m hoping it doesn’t come to that, but hey – if you’re going to riot, you might as well do it the right way. Now, we just need to find some Canadians to set some police cars on fire and we should be good.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs.
Varly: you're awesome. We love you. Please don't break.
Bag skate, per Dater
If you’re an Avs player right now, are you thinking:
1) We deserve this after the way we played.
2) This will help us do better against Vancouver
3) This will be as effective as the last 20 of these we’ve had.
4th biggest pessimist of MHH.
"There's always next season." -- Jimmy Howard on not winning the Calder Trophy.
The accompanying photo says so much
If not for copyright, I’d use this photo a lot
4th biggest pessimist of MHH.
"There's always next season." -- Jimmy Howard on not winning the Calder Trophy.
$$$$$ has nothing to do with it.
You guys who think this team is bad because it hugs the cap floor aren’t seeing the big picture. The potential salary of this team is near the ceiling—and if they keep the good players they have, they will be close to the ceiling within 3 years.
This team doesn’t have success because it is young, and hasn’t learned how to force other teams to play into their game, instead the Avs just play the style their opponents like to play. That will change with time.
Landeskog - O'Reilly - Jones. When.
This is even worse than burgundy because I think you’re serious.
I have to see what ridiculous overpayments you are suggesting for this group of players to come anywhere close to $64M.
4th biggest pessimist of MHH.
"There's always next season." -- Jimmy Howard on not winning the Calder Trophy.
Assuming players develop as projected
You could be spending $30m on Duchene, Landeskog, Johnson, O’Reilly, and Varlamov alone.
Landeskog - O'Reilly - Jones. When.
You’re already spending $3.2, $3.5, $2.6, $900K, and $2.8M on those guys, meaning you expect to spend an extra $19M on those players alone? That’s almost $4M apiece raises, putting Duchene at $7.2, Landeskog at $7.5, Johnson at $6.6, O’Reilly at $4.9 and Varlamov at $6.8M. Subract that extra million from any player there, and you have your prices.
You’re flat wrong.
4th biggest pessimist of MHH.
"There's always next season." -- Jimmy Howard on not winning the Calder Trophy.
You’re telling me that I’m flat wrong about speculation? Since it hasn’t happened yet, for all you know they could pay those guys 9mil per year each.
And all of those figures could be accurate, although I think Landeskog will be a mil or two less. But it’s not unreasonable if they play up to expectations to pay those players those amounts.
Landeskog - O'Reilly - Jones. When.
But it’s not unreasonable if they play up to expectations to pay those players those amounts.
If those are your expectations, I feel bad for you because you are going to be constantly disappointed.
Speculation is fine, but you’re speculating these guys are all going to be the best players in the game based on these cap hits. Maybe Duchene should hit a point per game before we pay him more than Pavel Datsyuk?
Much like real estate, you look at the comparables.
Why sign Johnson for that when you can sign Weber for that?
Valamov hasn’t earned the money he makes now, much less a doubling of his salary. Not only that, but we have plenty of goalies in the system.
O’Reilly may get to $4M to reach J. Staal level, but really?
It comes down to how much are the Avs going to pay for all this awesomeness we haven’t seen but are supposed to expect. Considering how the Avs give guys like Jones a one-year deal for $2.5 after his best season, I don’t think it’s a lot.
4th biggest pessimist of MHH.
"There's always next season." -- Jimmy Howard on not winning the Calder Trophy.
Paying for Saccofied damaged goods too. Not a single player save for numbers 37 & 9 deserve raises of that quality/quantity. Remove the coach seems to be the only option now—which coach is an entirely debatable topic.
by quietstorm560 on Nov 21, 2011 4:10 PM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
Both of these responses are not without their truths.
But consider this: Is it a coincidence that players come to Colorado and suffer? More importantly, what exactly is wrong with the entire team? You can’t pin it on one or two guys—every single player seems to be off, or at the very least, unlucky.
That’s why I used the word expectations. We expect all of these players to play better than they have been.
Landeskog - O'Reilly - Jones. When.
Shane O’Brien seems to have really flourished here though. They have to lock him up long term. He’ll be able to help with EJ’s development.
by quietstorm560 on Nov 21, 2011 5:47 PM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
So let me see if I can summarize the thoughts:
There is one camp that thinks this team is vastly under-performing due to coaching/management decisions and how they’ve handled the talent and potential talent (FA’s, salary floor).
There is one camp that thinks this team is performing about right given how the team is built (depth, experience, etc.) and where the expenses have been allocated (due to the likely long-term view of the roster).
Neither camp agrees with the other.
So we’re basically the Super Committee of MHH?
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
Super Committees always fail unless they meet here:
But something tells me Batman has no interest in cutting defense contract spending and Superman won’t budge on Social Security, what with his elderly mom and modest journalism salary.
4th biggest pessimist of MHH.
"There's always next season." -- Jimmy Howard on not winning the Calder Trophy.
Does proven NHL talent get calls just like the fricken NBA? Don’t know, but I saw more than one infraction committed by San Jose last night. Many more. And how does one team outshoot another by more than a 2:1 ratio and yet end up with only one power play to six the other way. Doesn’t conventional wisdom dictate that a team working hard to get shots should at least draw some penalties?
Other than that, the game was frustrating. What I took out of it? Talent, not Corsi, scores goals. And the Avs don’t have much talent, especially up front. Even without Lindstrom.
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
How often does a team outshoot its opponent at a 2 to 1 ratio while it’s also taken 7 penalties? I don’t care what the “shot quality” was; they were getting a shit load of pucks on net.
Duchene may be the face of this franchise, but O’Reilly is the heart. - Guitarpick8120
by Cheryl Bradley on Nov 21, 2011 3:21 PM MST up reply actions
Me too. I think they are playing their asses off for the most part. But talent is as talent does. And the Avs don’t have it. The Sharks have roughly double the talent at forward over what we have now. It’s downright shameful.
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Nov 21, 2011 4:17 PM MST up reply actions
I think Sacco made a good point in the postgame. Not enough of our skaters are getting dirty in front of the net. He was asked if we have the size to play that way, and he answered that we certainly have the speed to beat defenders to a spot, and that it’s not really about size so much as will. Two guys I hated with a passion, Pat Verbeek and Dino Ciccarelli, were both pretty small guys. They both were very difficult to play against. Sometimes, you’ve got to be willing to take Patrick Roy’s goalie stick lodged halfway up your ass to make a play.
It’s kind of pathetic that Landeskog seems to be one of the few forwards who’s willing to make life a bit uncomfortable for opposing goalies and defensemen.
by DiD on Nov 21, 2011 4:27 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Good point. Jones should be in front of the net much more than he is. And when he does it, he is effective. Hell, Deader wasn’t all that big (like he is now), but he was always driving to the damn net. So maybe they’re only working hard to a point? To get pucks to the next, albeit mostly harmless ones. But not doing enough dirty work to make life hard for opposing goaltenders.
Then Landy does it and gets a damn goaltender interference call. And gets cross checked while lying on the ce by a Shark for good measure.
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Nov 21, 2011 4:43 PM MST up reply actions
Oh, and another thing, EJ needs to start blowing up the opposition, preferrably legally, before the ends of games.
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Nov 21, 2011 1:56 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
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