Avalanche at Red Wings Recap: Wings Rout Avs Behind Franzen Hat Trick 5-2
by Derek B on Nov 8, 2011 9:12 PM MST
in Avalanche Recaps
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PrintColorado and Detroit. Tell that to any number of Avalanche or Red Wings fans and the mere mention of the other team's names evokes memories of the mid-90s and the heyday of this once heated rivalry. While the more heated days of the rivalry are probably behind us, there is no doubt fans of each team probably wouldn't be sending the other any Holiday Cards.
As the game got going both teams created great scoring opportunities. Two of the bigger chances were when Paul Stastny sent a shot wide from a tough angle and as a puck trickled into the slot, Daniel Winnik wasn't able to get much on a shot, but still forced Jimmy Howard to make a save.
As the period wore on both teams settled into more careful style of play, not wanting to give up that first goal against.
Detroit however would strike first on this night. As Henrik Zetterberg chipped the puck into the zone, Ryan Wilson took the body against Johan Franzen. He had him beat to the puck, then committed the worst possible turnover possible, as he sent a weak backhand into the middle of the slot that Nicklas Lidstrom was just able to walk into. Further complicating matters for Varly was the fact that Ryan O'Byrne made a feeble attempt to block the shot, and probably did more harm than good as Varly threw his hands up as he didn't even see the shot. 1-0 Wings on Lidstrom's 6th goal of the season.
Both teams would trade power plays in the closing minutes of the first period but neither team could cash in on their opportunities and the first period would end with the Wings leading 1-0.
As the second period got going, the Wings had some momentum going, then Paul Stastny took a cross checking penalty just over a minute and a half into the period. The Red Wings have been known for their ability to move the puck around the zone, especially on the power play. They definitely showed that ability when Valtteri Filppula sent a shot that was tipped in by Johan Franzen on a tic-tac-toe play to put the Red Wings up 2-0 at 2:36 of the second period.
After that goal, it seemed like the Avs were back on their heels. They really weren't generating very many offensive chances. Then Jay McClement took a pretty needless boarding penalty. Not only did it put one of the better Avalanche penalty killers in the box, but it put the dangerous Red Wings power play back on the ice. Just under 20 seconds into the power play, Niklas Kronwall sent a slap pass thru the high slot and right onto the tape of Johan Franzen who tipped it passed a helpless Semyon Varlamov. It would be the last goal he would give up as he would be lifted in favor of J.S. Giguere.
The Avalanche would get a power play shortly after giving up their second power play goal against of the game. It also appeared the Avalanche had a little more jump in their step after Varlamov was lifted.
The Avs power play game into the game scoring 26.7% of the time it was on the job. Gabriel Landeskog is playing just as everyone hoped he would so far this season. Ironically though he had yet to score on the power play. That's just what he did. Doing what every hockey coach always tells his players to do, crash the net, he was able to poke a shot past Jimmy Howard and into the net. It was Landeskog's 5th goal of the season.
The goal seemed to energize the team for a little while, but Detroit seemed to slip into a Minnesota style trap and was content in stifling any type of offensive rush the Avs tried to generate.
In one of the more creative plays I've seen in a while, Pavel Datsyuk tried flipping the puck over the back of net, potentially off of Giguere and into the net. Ryan O'Reilly was thankfully there to bat the puck down and foil the opportunity.
Just under 3 minutes into the 3rd period Ryan O'Reilly made one of his few mistakes in the game and took a hooking penalty to put the ever dangerous power play back on the ice. Fortunately the Avs were able to kill of the power play and keep the Avs in the game.
After a fairly uneventful third period for both teams, the Red Wings were able to cash in off of a bad rebound was given up by Jean-Sebastien Giguere off of a Pavel Datsyuk shot. It was Dan Cleary's second goal of the season to put the Wings up 4-1 with just over 5 minutes to play in the game.
As Matt Duchene made a very strong move to try and get around Pavel Datsyuk, he drew a holding call against the perennial Lady Byng winner to take just his second penalty of the season. The Avs would go back on the power play and would not need much time to cash in as Milan Hejduk sent it under Jimmy Howard 5th goal of the season to bring the Avs back within striking distance, 4-2.
Johan Franzen would seal the deal for the Red Wings as he scored an empty net goal with just over seconds remaining to complete his hat trick.
- 1 Gabriel Landeskog (First NHL career power play goal)
- 2 Milan Hejduk (5th goal of the season)
- 3 Ryan Wilson (Great hip check on Henrik Zetterberg)
- 1 Hejduk-Statsny-Kobasew
- 2 Jones-Duchene-Lindstrom
- 3 Landeskog-O'Reilly-Winnik
- 4 McLeod-McClement-
- 1 Wilson-Johnson
- 2 O'Byrne-O'Brien
- 3 Hejda-Quincey
- 4 Hunnwick
- 1 I was EXTREMELY disappointed to see Joe Sacco scratch both TJ Galiardi and Kevin Porter in favor of defenseman Matt Hunnwick.
- 2 Avs went 2 for 3 on the power play to continue to lead the NHL in power play efficiency.
- 3 Avs penalty kill couldn't seem to find an answer for the Red Wings power play and gave up 2 goals.
The Islanders are coming to town on Thrusday night. The big story in this game will be the battle of John Tavares and Matt Duchene.
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I fucking hate Johan Franzen
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 8, 2011 9:15 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
Yeah. talk about an Avs killer. Possibly the only red wing I would like on the Avs, just so he quits scoring on the team so fucking much.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
Every team has a killer, bringing them on doesn’t always work though. I will always remember the Cubs were killed by Jeff Blauser when he was a member of the Braves. He said it was because he loved Wrigley Field so much, that he just seemed to hit there. Cubs brought him on, and he sucked balls the entire year. One year experiment…failed
I agree though,. Franzen has the Avs number
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
Well, even if he didn’t score FOR us, he wouldn’t be scoring AGAINST us.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
This is true…but we need people to score FOR us too. At least this current crop does
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
Unless he started scoring.on.his.own.net.
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
Footer: We'll miss seeing you clear the riff raff off your lawn.
Can we start calling hime James Howard? It makes me feel better.
by whalers71 on Nov 8, 2011 9:25 PM MST via mobile reply actions
I've actually started liking JR
Out of the NHL though.
It's all about Winnik
by Sandie Gauthier on Nov 9, 2011 4:48 PM MST up reply actions
I know I’ve been beating the unlucky drum pretty hard lately, but I’d still feel a hell of a lot better if they would win some damn games. This losing crap is getting old, even if I think they’ve been playing ok. (Although tonight I thought they were beat by a team that’s better than them)
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
I missed the game.
But the shots look pretty even. Did James have a good game, or did the Avs take a bunch of weak shots, or what?
by Andrew_in_Seattle on Nov 8, 2011 10:43 PM MST up reply actions
Lord Howard was rarely tested.
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Nov 9, 2011 9:36 AM MST up reply actions
elephant in the room?
Stastny really hasn’t been very good this season. Or last year after they traded Stewie and FOS spouted off.
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
Are you joking? Stastny’s been the Avs best player, save maybe Varlamov.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 8, 2011 9:52 PM MST up reply actions
Do you really think Stats has been better than O’Reilly? Points and time on ice are pretty even, faceoffs are advantage O’Reilly, I haven’t checked defensive zone starts but you can argue Stats has had better linemates, so I’d expect Stats to have to do more, including start in his own zone.
I’m sure part of it is expectations. I don’t think even Stastny’s most ardent defenders can say he’s played up to his contract this year (and the past few years, for that matter). O’Reilly has exceeded most expectations.
And that was a really terrible penalty Stats took in the 2nd period. Just awful.
I’m not trying to pile on a guy who I haven’t loved for the past few years, but I don’t think it’s so clear cut that he’s even the best center on the team, much less the best player.
Yeah, I think he’s played better than O’Reilly. Sure O’Reilly’s Ozone is 42%, but Stats is 49%. O’Reilly is in no way being protected, but Stastny has, by far, played the best opposition all season.
It’s a small sample size for sure, but I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Duchene and Hejduk all of a sudden look rejuvenated playing on Stastny’s line and Jones looks completely lost whenever he’s not on Stastny’s wing.
I’m not saying O’Reilly hasn’t been good, he has, but Stastny has been the Avs best forward. He plays the toughest competition, and is more than holding his own. Stastny’s the one lining up against Toews, Datsyuk, Iginla, and any other elite forwards out there.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 8, 2011 10:15 PM MST up reply actions
Last couple games I have to give it to Duchene. Save for a couple spin-o-rama gaffes, he looks good out there.
Landeskog - O'Reilly - Jones. When.
You mean the last couple where he has been put on Stastny’s wing and looks like a completely different player?
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 8, 2011 10:23 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah, he looks great.
But I noticed Sacco changed it up in the third. I really feel like the guy is clueless.
Landeskog - O'Reilly - Jones. When.
> Sacco changes it up
> Avs score
> Sacco is clueless
OWL LINE!!! HOOO!!!! HOOOO!!!!
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: there will be blood and there will be wins.
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
The Number Zero, now in colour. Blood and Thunder Record: 6-6-0 (Total Record: 7-9-0)
by Tempestuous Binary on Nov 9, 2011 12:29 AM MST up reply actions
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=avs+score
OWL LINE!!! HOOO!!!! HOOOO!!!!
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: there will be blood and there will be wins.
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
The Number Zero, now in colour. Blood and Thunder Record: 6-6-0 (Total Record: 7-9-0)
by Tempestuous Binary on Nov 9, 2011 4:39 PM MST up reply actions
Well, I sure as fuck hope he’d be our best forward, based on his experience, the fact that he’s at or near the physical prime of his career, and his compensation. I was hoping for a lot more out of him than to be a guy who doesn’t kill penalties and who gets most of his points on the power play rather than at even strength. I was hoping for him to be a lot more like his NHL doppelganger, Anze Kopitar, than what he has been. Kopitar’s a beast. Stastny is slightly better this season than Mike Ribeiro.
He hasn’t been our best forward by a lot, and he should be. Maybe my expectations for him are too high.
I would like to see him be better, and net more points. I think he’s been better than last year, and has been a bit snakebit. But, like evryone else, my patience is starting to wear thin with the team. a losing streak will do that, even if they have looked okay for the most part.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 9, 2011 7:02 AM MST up reply actions
The problem is that we’re talking about who the best forward on our team has been, when the real issue is that our best forward is never as good as the opposing team’s best forward.
Except for Phoenix, but the Borg aren’t much for individualism.
4th biggest pessimist of MHH.
"There's always next season." -- Jimmy Howard on not winning the Calder Trophy.
This team may be snakebit a little bit, but last night they just plain got beat by a better team. It’s clear there is some ways to go before the Avs are a contender again.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
Agree 100%. I think last night (and the games against Chicago and LA) the Avs really struggled. They were outplayed in those games.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 9, 2011 2:55 PM MST up reply actions
Bums me out too. I had hoped that the Avs could compete at least in some of the games against “better” teams. There is still time of course, but I guess I was hoping for “revolutionarily better” and we got “evolutionarily better”.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
I think they are competing in them, they looked ok at times against Chi and Detroit in the opener. But I think it’s clear that they were not the better team in any of those games. (2-3) in those games too).
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 9, 2011 3:11 PM MST up reply actions
I should also mention they looked better than Boston too.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 9, 2011 3:12 PM MST up reply actions
Well, yeah, but Boston was in a funk then too. I thought Colorado was only able to play with Detroit and Chicago for brief periods in those games. They may not have been manhandled, but I don’t think they dominated for any more than a shift here and there. Better than last spring though I guess.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
Is there a replay of the penalty somewhere because I’d like to see it again. At the time and when they showed the immediate replay I didn’t even see Stats touch him with a stick. It looked like he only had one had on his stick and he actually hit the guy with his hand.
It was pretty blatant, but it really wasn’t anything malicious
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
Looked like a lovetap to me. he just got his arms extended out too far.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
Just imagine the former Avs curse with Statsny. It causes nightmares as I’m sure he’ll have multi-point games against us.
by quietstorm560 on Nov 9, 2011 4:41 PM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
SOS at 6.6M is a joke. I like him but he’s a 5M player max. If he had some muscle a totally different player. He’s just too easy to knock off the puck.
by the cool breeze on Nov 9, 2011 8:55 AM MST up reply actions
So because of the salary a previous GM gave him, we should critique him more and punish him for it? I think there is a denver post article you should post on.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
I’m the biggest SoS fanboy on the planet and he’s done everything to earn that money (the little things, so to speak) with the exception of putting pucks in the net.
His salary is always going to be a sticking point and I understand some people’s issue with it. However, his salary has ABSOLUTELY NO FUCKING BEARING on a team that is at the salary floor. Therefore, it’s a moot point.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
Jesus wept, I can’t believe people are still banging on that old drum. Stastny blah blah.
If it wasn’t for Stastny, we wouldn’t even be at the cap floor, so, it is a complete non-issue for me.
On another topic, sorry for the comment above Mike.
"Time to bust out the increasingly shameful porn and let fly the balls of war!"
-AJ Hellofawaffle 2011
RIP Dan Wheldon, Marco Simoncelli
Yes, to JJ from Kansas. I don’t normally react like that and will take any punishment coming.
"Time to bust out the increasingly shameful porn and let fly the balls of war!"
-AJ Hellofawaffle 2011
RIP Dan Wheldon, Marco Simoncelli
Did trollol from Kansass finally get banned? I see no comment.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
Well said. Are there guys paid less that are “better”? Sure, but it’s not really a practical issue for the Avs at the moment and there are plenty of examples of way-overpaid guys in Stastny’s range as well.
Laughter and tears are both responses to frustration and exhaustion. I myself prefer to laugh, since there is less cleaning up to do afterward. - Kv
by MalachiConstant on Nov 9, 2011 9:16 AM MST up reply actions
yes, when you make the big bucks you are supposed to produce. I’m not saying SOS should not have taken the money but at that level he’s not even close to most of the other guys making that dough. We should be easy on him?
by the cool breeze on Nov 9, 2011 9:38 AM MST up reply actions
No. By all means jump on his sack about the lack of production. But criticizing his play via invoking his salary is not a legitimate argument in my opinion.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
Dude, in any sport a top paid player needs to produce, why pay them then? I think it’s an easy argument that any teams highest paid guys should get the most heat when they don’t produce. If OV scores 10 goals this year you don’t think he shouls get heat vs say Hendricks?
by the cool breeze on Nov 9, 2011 9:56 AM MST up reply actions
I’m not saying he shouldn’t be criticized for his play. Criticize away. I certainly am. I’m saying that SoS’ salary, in relationship to this team and it’s salary structure, has absolutely no relevance to his level of play.
Be pissed he hasn’t been producing like a TOP LINE CENTER.
Don’t be pissed that he hasn’t been producing like a $6 million player.
Two different things.
And never call me dude again.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
At the time Stastny was awarded this contract he was playing at the same level as Kopitar. Kopitar had just signed a deal and the Avs gave Stastny a similar. He got market value, and honestly the two still aren’t far apart when it comes to numbers….so would you say Kopitar doesn’t deserve his contract either?
Kopitar = playing in 6th season, 408 games; 146 goals; 230 assist, 376pts, -14
Stastny = playing in 6th season, 363 games, 109 goals; 221 assists, 330pts, +8
Both players are close to a point per game: Kopitar = 0.92 Stastny = 0.91
Goals per game: Kopitar = 0.35 Stastny = 0.30
Assist per game: Kopitar = 0.56 Stastny = 0.61
Stastny isn’t as flashy as Kopitar but their numbers are so close. Kopitar maybe the better scorer, but Sastny’s a better set-up man.
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
Footer: We'll miss seeing you clear the riff raff off your lawn.
by Americanario on Nov 9, 2011 10:27 AM MST up reply actions
Nice point. What a player gets as a contract in one year has no bearing on whether he will be worth the same money long term. So goes the risks of long term deals.
by spokane-avs-fan on Nov 9, 2011 1:01 PM MST up reply actions
Best player?
Nope. Highest paid? Yes. Better than Stats so far this season, based on observation only, so ymmv:
O’Reilly, Landeskog, Quincey (and I used to hate Quincey), Wilson, Hejduk. All have been much better than Stats so far this season. I counted at least casual turnovers by Stastny last night alone. He isn’t an elite top center. I’m coming to terms with that.
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Nov 9, 2011 9:30 AM MST up reply actions
There should be a 3 in there before “casual.”
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Nov 9, 2011 9:31 AM MST up reply actions
+1
Thx, the voice of reason. He can’t hold Kopitar’s jock or even Kesler’s (exactly the type of talent and heart guy we lack).
by the cool breeze on Nov 9, 2011 9:41 AM MST up reply actions
Fuck Kesler. He’s a douche.
Also, what has Kopitar done in his young career? Not a single damn thing. And he’s been on a much more consistent team that SoS the last few years.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
if we has Kesler would you be happy, be honest? Kopitar argument I can’t win if you even think there’s a debate about it. Even Sherminator would do that trade in a second. He’s better on every single facet of hockey.
by the cool breeze on Nov 9, 2011 10:00 AM MST up reply actions
No (on Kesler). I wouldn’t. Honest. I’m pissed he’s an American Olympic player. Honest. It’s one of the few times in my life that I wouldn’t take the bad with the good. I think he’s an embarrassment.
My point on Kopitar is that he hasn’t made his linemates better, he makes the same cash that SoS does, and he hasn’t carried a team on his back. He’s a skilled hockey player and he’s been on a better team the last couple of years. Not sure I see the huge upside you’re implying (every single facet, really? That begs for some backing-up, BTW).
SOS Pts: 78, 71, 36, 79, 57= 321/348—-0.922 PPG
AK Pts: 61, 77, 66, 81, 73= 358/393—- 0.911 PPG
Aside from an injury shortened season and the debacle of last season, that’s pretty similar production for the same $ on a better (lately) team. So again, I’ll ask: How much of an upgrade would Kopitar really be?
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
explanation
BTW- what has Kessler done, I love him.
Kopitar:
You have already shown he has more points and A LOT more goals.
He’s much stronger physically and is mujch stronger on the puck
He’s a faster skater
Has nicer long hair
Williams and Brown scored 57 pts each and without him you can forget those stats with those guys.
by the cool breeze on Nov 9, 2011 10:21 AM MST up reply actions
Look at points per game
Stastny leads and it is close
His hair is worse though.
It's all about the O'
by SteveHouse on Nov 9, 2011 10:27 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
I also forgot to mention that SOS was on very good teams with bums like Sakic, Forsberg, Duke, etc. so he had great players to play with his first couple years. Look at LA’s roster for Kopitar’s first 2 years, ouch!
by the cool breeze on Nov 9, 2011 10:31 AM MST up reply actions
Statsny has never really played with Forsberg.
Stastny’s first season with the Avs was 06-07, Forsberg was with Philly and Nashville that season.
In 07-09 Foppa played 9 regular season games, last season 2. So Stastny has 11 games with Forsberg.
Sakic played three season with Stastny (well two and a quarter) or 141 games.
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
Footer: We'll miss seeing you clear the riff raff off your lawn.
by Americanario on Nov 9, 2011 10:35 AM MST up reply actions
BTW- what has Kessler done, I love him.
His play in the playoffs was despicable. Not how I want players that I’m a fan of to conduct themselves, especially when it’s my country.
Anze has 37 more points in 45 more games, so no, I didn’t show he has more points on a per game basis, just the opposite exactly. Unless you expect SoS to score in games he’s not it?
They play different styles: SoS is a playmaker and his assist totals bear that out. Anze is a shooter and his goal totals bear that out. So now you replace the set-up guy on SoS’s line and now you have three finishers (Anze, Duke, Duchene/Jones). Who generates the opportunities for those players?
My argument to Williams and Browns totals is that looking at their assists, it appears that without Brown (and Williams last year), Kopitar doesn’t have HIS stats.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
Kopitar can pass the puck when he needs to, watch him for a few games. The main difference is he’s 6’3", 220lbs so he’s a load for d-men to handle whereas SOS a little child can knock off the puck. We can disagree but I would make that trade in a second.
by the cool breeze on Nov 9, 2011 10:36 AM MST up reply actions
Not to burst the “Kopitar is the shiz” bubble, but there have been many many occasions when Kings fans lamented Kopi and his inability to create offense, saying many of the same things people are saying about Stastny. My best friends are Kings fans and I have heard it all. He had painfully dry periods in 2008-09 and 2009-10.
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: a mean, junkyard dog looking for revenge
by Cheryl Bradley on Nov 9, 2011 12:07 PM MST up reply actions
I like SOS, don’t misunderstand me, I’m just saying if you list the guys making his money he’s not near the top of the list.
by the cool breeze on Nov 9, 2011 1:53 PM MST up reply actions
And yet statistically he’s the same as Kopitar.
So again I’ll ask…Do you think Kopitar worth his contract?
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
Footer: We'll miss seeing you clear the riff raff off your lawn.
Stats are not the only consideration, you show me 1 ranking where SOS is ahead of Kopitar and then let’s talk.
by the cool breeze on Nov 9, 2011 3:52 PM MST up reply actions
He’s not the same as Kopitar by a long shot this year, or in the past few eyars. One of those players is trending up, the other is trending down. I don’t think too many GMs would agree to a Stats for Kopitar straight up swap.
by DiD on Nov 9, 2011 4:09 PM MST up reply actions
Really? Hejduk has been absolutely awful imo
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Nov 9, 2011 9:57 AM MST up reply actions
I think he’s one of the few guys creating quality scoring chances, and still plays decent D. I think he’s been as good as ever. On a team with talent, he’s still at least a 30 goal scorer and legitimate threat.
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Nov 9, 2011 10:02 AM MST up reply actions
Notice how all the players you mentioned aren’t playing against the other team’s top lines. Because they’d get beaten up pretty badly…
Save Hejduk who hasn’t been better than Stats
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 9, 2011 10:02 AM MST up reply actions
I don't think this is true at all Jib
Actually, I’ve seen our so-called “3rd line” out there against other teams’ top lines quite a bit so far this season. Dan will look it up and crank the numbers for us.
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Nov 9, 2011 10:04 AM MST up reply actions
I already looked it up for the first 7-8 games. (It’s on my blog) stastny’s line played the best competition far and away. I suspect it hasn’t changed much.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 9, 2011 11:27 AM MST up reply actions
I’d look it up right now, but I can’t get Timeonice.com at work
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 9, 2011 11:28 AM MST up reply actions
FYI
Looked it up. Looks like Sacco is using O’Reilly in the Bolland role, and Stastny getting the Bolland type guys (defensive specialists).
Example: Stastny faced Lidstrom more than any other player on Detroit, but O’Reilly faced Datsyuk more. So lately O’Reilly has been seeing tougher opponents.
But yeah, still think stastny’s been the Avs best skater.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 9, 2011 10:00 PM MST up reply actions
You forgot to put “skater” in quotes.
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Nov 10, 2011 9:41 AM MST up reply actions
Opening Faceoff
The thirst line have started most(all?) our games. I’d imagine that would put them up against other teams’ top lines.
Living in the D, but It's All About The A.
by Avalanche318 on Nov 9, 2011 10:06 AM MST up reply actions
The line that starts the game is rarely the top line. The Yelle Line used to start a lot of games
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 9, 2011 11:28 AM MST up reply actions
Tonight just sucked.
I realize the Avs might not probably won’t make the playoffs, but damn it guys—please don’t give Washington a top 10 pick!
I want to believe that this team can win and can be dangerous. But this season has been pretty bad. I love the powerplay, but the PK is awful. I love the come from behind wins, but where are the wins against divisional or even conference rivals? More importantly, where are the regulation wins?
Why are Jones and Galiardi in the doghouse? Why is Hunwick on this team?
Call up Elliot. Let’s at least see what he can do. I’d scratch Hejda for a game.
Landeskog - O'Reilly - Jones. When.
the line combos are not the problem (for the last time), the problem is a lack of talent, esp. on the top 6. They played pretty hard I thought but they don’t have enough finishers, that’s just a lack of talent. Mueller healthy would help so much but we all know the odds of that. I personally think they are much better with Duchene on the first line, put Jones on the 3rd line and just make sure the 2nd plays good defense and doesn’t give up goals. I think that’s their best chance.
by the cool breeze on Nov 9, 2011 9:00 AM MST up reply actions
How does burying Jones on the third line equate to their best chance? You complain about the lack of finishers and you’re going to put one of the best goal-scorers in reduced minutes so that Dan Winnik (bless his heart) can play some defense on the 2nd line?
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
Dan Winnik (bless his heart) can play some defense (then try to skate through 3 people and lose the puck) on the 2nd line?
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
Works for Duchene (the skate through 3 people and lose the puck) except for rare occasions like Dallas
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
Footer: We'll miss seeing you clear the riff raff off your lawn.
by Americanario on Nov 9, 2011 10:38 AM MST up reply actions
Exactly. David Jones who was scoring like his pants were on fire suddenly gets dumped onto the lower lines. Pathetic.
"Time to bust out the increasingly shameful porn and let fly the balls of war!"
-AJ Hellofawaffle 2011
RIP Dan Wheldon, Marco Simoncelli
Did I miss some horrific thing Jones did to get in Sacco’s doghouse?
2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Defying Corsi
Yeah, he didn’t score after being dropped to the 3rd line…which was an attempt to get Duchene going
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
what? he is better offensively than winnik and he has ZERO chance on the 2nd or 4th lines wioth the gusy he’s with. At least you have 2 lines that may be able to score. The 3rd line is really their 2nd line so I’m just putting Jones with the top six. How bout call ROR’s line the 2nd then.
by the cool breeze on Nov 9, 2011 9:23 AM MST up reply actions
OK, you confused me initially. I thought we were all pretty much calling Radar’s line the 2nd now since Duchene moved to wing. We’re talking the same thing.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
Yeah, I think of the Duchene-Stas line as 1st, Radar line 2nd. My problem with the 2nd line, is Jones is buried on the 3rd or 4th, while Winnik squanders one scoring chance after another every game.
I love Winnik, but he shouldn’t be on a scoring line.
Landeskog - O'Reilly - Jones. When.
The loyalty that Sacco is showing Winnik by not making that obvious change seems odd to me, if even for half a game or during a practice. He’s shown he’ll pull the trigger on line swaps at the drop of a hat, but Winnik hasn’t budged.
4th biggest pessimist of MHH.
"There's always next season." -- Jimmy Howard on not winning the Calder Trophy.
Winnik may not be scoring, but he’s helping to open up the ice for the other two and doing other little things right. He’s not given Sacco a real reason to move him yet.
I too would like to see Jonesy with them, or even Duchene with them. But Jones has looked pretty terrible the past few games (he’s looked fairly bad even when one takes into account the sub-par wingers he’s been with). One he gets out of the doghouse, I think Sacco will begin to consider making the shift.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs.
Varly: you're awesome. We love you. Please don't break.
Agree we need for someone other than Winnik on that line.
by spokane-avs-fan on Nov 9, 2011 1:10 PM MST up reply actions
Your two paragraphs contradict each other.
OWL LINE!!! HOOO!!!! HOOOO!!!!
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: there will be blood and there will be wins.
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
The Number Zero, now in colour. Blood and Thunder Record: 6-6-0 (Total Record: 7-9-0)
by Tempestuous Binary on Nov 9, 2011 4:40 PM MST up reply actions
Well, I meant that it’s going to be a battle for that spot. Right now, Winnik’s winning, but when Jones plays good enough to be de-doghoused, he might get that spot instead.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs.
Varly: you're awesome. We love you. Please don't break.
But Jones was playing fine before he was dropped to a line with no talent, and still expected to score. It’s just another stupid doghouse for Sacco, and his own fault for the drop in Jones’ scoring
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
Kobasew was on the first line? I am glad I haven’t been able to watch this bullshit. From what I have seen so far, it isn’t any different from last year. Good luck Sacco.
by Pinchy The Lobster on Nov 8, 2011 10:31 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
He didn’t start there, only played with them a bit after we’d gone down 3-1 and Sacco moved Duchene back to center. Kobasew had a total of 14 shifts in the game, Stats had 25, Duke had 21.
People seem to get really freaked out by line combos and don’t always take into account how special teams affect lines. Or game situations.
For the record, here’s who he skated with:
Duchene, McLeod
McClement, McLeod
O’Reilly, McLeod
Winnik (PK)
Jones (PK)
McClement, Lindstrom
Stats, Duke
Stats, Duke
Stats, Duke
Stats, Duke
Landy (PK)
Stats, Duke
Stats, Duke
O’Reilly, McLeod
To get technical about it...
I don’t envy Derek or anyone who writes the recap having to try to figure out the line combos in a game like this.
Here’s the info:
http://timeonice.com/H2H1112.html?GameNumber=20207&submit=Go
Here are our most common lines for the game, I think. And this is only for even strength:
Landeskog – O’Reilly – Winnik
Duchene – Stastny – Hejduk
Jones – Duchene – Lindstrom
Kobasew – Stastny – Hejduk
McLeod – McClement – Lindstrom
The 7 D thing screwed everything up all game. I’m not a fan of 7 D at all
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 9, 2011 7:02 AM MST up reply actions
The whole 7D thing last night has me really questioning Sacco’s sanity?
What was the point? Were they trying to showcase Hunwick for a trade? If so why not play as one of your 6D so you can still role 4 lines? Do they not trust him enough to actually play D?
The whole thing has me scratching my head…….
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
Footer: We'll miss seeing you clear the riff raff off your lawn.
Quenneville started with 7 D in Chicago this year. It’s just an ugly thing. You have to always double shift a forward, which leads to strange line combos.
Plus it really never “helps” the defense, because you still only have two defensemen at a time out there
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
Unless you are protecting a rookie and getting him ice time (like if Elliott or Barrie were called up) I don’t see 7D as being a good thing.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 9, 2011 8:05 AM MST up reply actions
The only time I’ve seen it come close to working is the few times JM Liles was put in as a 7th D, but played as a forward. They tried Cumiskey a few times in the same type of role and we all know that didn’t work.
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
Footer: We'll miss seeing you clear the riff raff off your lawn.
They tried that with Boychuck in his cup of coffee with the Avs. That didn’t work either
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
Remember the Montreal/Colorado scout tweet.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
A possible trade is the only reason to play Hunwick, but it still doesn’t explain why you would handicap your offense by playing a 7th D-man. Sit Hejda or another D-man if you want to play/showcase Hunwick.
Unless the trade partner is looking at him in a more offensive role, then actually play him as a forward and role 4 lines.
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
Footer: We'll miss seeing you clear the riff raff off your lawn.
by Americanario on Nov 9, 2011 10:44 AM MST up reply actions
this is going to be a vent and I am not going to argue the following
1) I am so tired of the losing. I would love to see some passion coming from this team. It felt like they kinda gave up at the end, and that pisses me off. I want Highlander to blow someone up. Instead of just folding, get pissed. I want to see that emotion. I want to see that you care. Not read about or see the locker room disappointment. I want emotion. If you cared about losing lets see you play a full 60 minutes of tough physical hockey. (tonight was the first time I saw the last year tank. However they dont come out and play tough for 60 min)
2) I am sick of the officiating. I dont care you call the Avs penalties but I am sick of seeing the other team do the same shit and get away with it. If I was an Av player I would launch a bomb at the next ref who dicks up a call.
3) I am sick of seeing Duchene playing with 10 different line combos a game. I am so annoyed with Sacco right now. I am not advocating his termination (which I would support), but he has lost this team or his mind. I am annoyed with the Dog house treatment. I want to see the best players play. That means Gali, that means Jones on the top 6. That means Duchene in the top 6. The whole damn team has an identity crises. Crap, Johnson and Hejda were together for 10 games and that was a nightmare. Gali is centering a line for one night and is gone the next. I feel he is costing the team games because there is no chance to develop “chemistry” and our best players are not set in position to succeed. By the Sacco, if I see one more EN goal when we are down by two goals and you cant get your goalie off the ice unitl 49 seconds left in the game I will lose a TV by throwing it across the room. Quit being a douche!!!!!!!!!!!!
by avalanchejef on Nov 8, 2011 10:34 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
I want to see the best players play. That means Gali, that means Jones on the top 6. That means Duchene in the top 6.
Halle-fucking-lujah and amen to that, brother.
"Time to bust out the increasingly shameful porn and let fly the balls of war!"
-AJ Hellofawaffle 2011
RIP Dan Wheldon, Marco Simoncelli
by Nemesis44UK on Nov 9, 2011 7:20 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
2) I am sick of the officiating. I dont care you call the Avs penalties but I am sick of seeing the other team do the same shit and get away with it. If I was an Av player I would launch a bomb at the next ref who dicks up a call.
I’m starting to want a coach with some fire. A couple of weeks ago the Bruins were getting lousy calls and Julien chewed out the refs to the point he got thrown out of the game. Sacco? He just sit there. At some point the calls are so asinine that you want you coach to say something on the ice, or in the media. Take the fine, but grow a sack and speak up.
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
Footer: We'll miss seeing you clear the riff raff off your lawn.
Sacco stares at the ground…it’s a movement
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
by chiavsfan on Nov 9, 2011 7:44 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with this. I thought the officiating for the past few games has been horrendous. I had to mute the commentary as I could only get the Wings announcers and after hearing how poor some of the penalties were against the Wings, I wanted to snap my laptop in half.
"Time to bust out the increasingly shameful porn and let fly the balls of war!"
-AJ Hellofawaffle 2011
RIP Dan Wheldon, Marco Simoncelli
Don’t worry, if you had the Avalanche feed on it was similar. McNabb seemed ready to drop to his knees and blow the entire Red Wing team.
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
McNabb is a closet redwings fan. He and Dater must get together and profess their love as they watch redwings games or something.
Maybe he got hit too many times by redwing players and all he can see now is red.
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
Footer: We'll miss seeing you clear the riff raff off your lawn.
And I don’t want him to rant or anything, but for goodness sakes, stop telling me the Avs have been “less than outstanding” or “just a bounce away” when they are playing bad. Say they are playing poorly…the audience isn’t stupid
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
Just call the game when the game is on and quite telling me stories or how great the other team is.
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
Footer: We'll miss seeing you clear the riff raff off your lawn.
Yeah, I don’t mind the sunnyside stuff, but quit fellating the other team, especially the wings, ffs.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
McNabb is a blight on this team for those of us who have to watch the games on tv. And yes i do turn off the volume or watch the other teams broadcast when possible without hurling.
by spokane-avs-fan on Nov 9, 2011 1:18 PM MST up reply actions
If the radio feed wasn’t delayed I’d seriously listen to Mose on the radio and mute the TV for certain games.
But honestly McNabb and Haynes aren’t the worst out there.
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
Footer: We'll miss seeing you clear the riff raff off your lawn.
No they are not, but they are getting close
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
Very true. And now there’s the weird in-game bickering that’s going on, like when Haynes said it was Landy’s first power play goal of the year, and McNab said that it’s the first power play goal of his career, and Haynes got a bit huffy and said it’s the first power play goal of his professional career. Just a couple of silly things like that when all I want them to do is shut the fuck up and stop telling stupid stories during a rare stretch of Avs’ possession.
by DiD on Nov 9, 2011 4:12 PM MST up reply actions
My favorite thing last night was when, upon coming back from commercial, they started talking about :O the game! but then
>puck drops
“So Crosby might come back on Friday.”
It's all about the O'
Pfft.
We all know Crosby won’t be back until Tuesday when the Avs play in Pittsburgh. That will give the Altidudes a full 4 hours to gush about him.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs.
Varly: you're awesome. We love you. Please don't break.
So I take it you weren’t listening when Mickey Redmond called the first period penalty against Quincey “just two players playing hockey” or when he called the cross-check by Stastny in the 2nd “ticky-tack”?
I’m not even going to ask if you heard what he had to say about the hooking penalty on O’Reilly at the start of the third.
by J.J. from Kansas on Nov 9, 2011 8:19 AM MST up reply actions
I do not listen to Mickey Redmond under almost any circumstances. He whines about refereeing way too much. (I usually only notice that he whines for Detroit, but maybe he whines both ways and I don’t realize it because I am horribly biased)
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 9, 2011 9:07 AM MST up reply actions
I want to see that emotion.
This a million times.
Where’s the fucking passion in the game? Lay someone the fuck out, fight, battle for the puck…do something to show me that you care… please don’t revert back to the apathy filled games of last year.
I am sick of the officiating.
Sacco. This one lies on him and the leaders of this team. I havn’t seen any of them challenge the officials…Coach Q said it best: “I’m not arguing the current call, I’m arguing for the next one”
Paul Stastny did, what Paul Stastny does. Score big goals.
Wilson had a pretty nice check, other than that, not so much.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
This rivalry is dead.
The fans may still hate each other, but after the Avalanche players refused to skate with any enthusiasm for the majority of a game against the RED WINGS, it’s over. They can talk in the locker room about how great the rivalry is, but it’s lip service. Yes, Detroit is a veteran team. Yes, they know all the tricks up the Avs sleeves. Yes, they have a lot of talented players that seem to play really well against the Avalanche. It doesn’t matter. The Avs have to come out and play their game every night, no matter who the competition is. That goes doubly true for "rivalry" games. They didn’t for the second time this season – they couldn’t even string together 60 minutes on Foppa’s night.
It’s over.
The Avs are a talented team. We’re young, yes, but young teams can be successful too. Look at the ’80 USA team – they beat a veteran team considered the best in the world despite being a bunch of unknown college guys. The current young Avs have so much talent they could probably skate circles around those Miracle on Ice players. But right now, the Avs are missing something that was the key to that team’s success: heart.
For whatever reason, the Avs just don’t have that hunger, that competitive drive to go out and scrape and fight and claw their way to a win. If they don’t get the first goal, they either panic or stagnate and the game is over. We have a solid group of forwards, a competent blueline and good goaltending – talent-wise, we should be a bubble team at least. But you don’t win on talent alone. Unless the Avs can find that inner fire, that inner drive, it’s all for naught. It’s a team of Wolskis – extremely talented, but worthless in the NHL because they just don’t have that uncontrollable desire to succeed no matter what.
I think that’s why Colorado loved Forsberg so much. Game in, game out, those brilliant blue eyes were alight with that fierce desire to win, to be the best. Better yet, he had the skill to match it. But even when he had bad games, you could tell that the fire was there – he never gave up, never quit trying. The same could be said about Roy. And Sakic. And almost all of the players that played for the Avs dynasty from 1996-2004. That fire was there, that will to dominate. That’s what fuelled this rivalry with the Wings; that’s what made it so fun to watch.
Right now, I think O’Reilly and Landeskog (and maybe Varly) are the only players to show that desire every night, but they can’t win games on their own. This team will only be successful once the entire 23 man roster starts playing like it gives a damn for 60 minutes every night. Maybe a captain, a new coach or more veterans would help this, but when you come right down to it, the desire to succeed is something found within. Almost every single player on the Avs needs to sit down, take a good hard look at himself in the mirror, and decide that he needs to start playing differently. He needs to start playing a simple game while remembering to have fun and relax, but he needs to play it with a "take no shit" attitude. He needs to figure out what it’s going to take for him to intensely compete for a full 60 minutes without tensing up, freaking out and making mistakes.
The Avs don’t have many veterans, so our young players have to step up and become the veterans well before their time. Hockey is a fun game when you’re winning, but you can’t win unless you expect to win, unless you want to win, and unless you are willing to do anything and everything it takes for a full 60 minutes to get there. Veteran players, like those that play in Detroit, understand this. It’s something that’s still escaping the young Avs – it’s probably the only thing standing between them and getting right back into the playoff picture.
The Avs are at what now, 5 games without a win? It’s time to come home and play with a chip on our shoulders. If we can take it to the Islanders and the Flames and figure out a way to play our brand of hockey consistently against them, we’ll be back on the right track. If not, well, we’ll all be crying in June at the entry draft. I know it’s much easier said that done, but this team needs to somehow remember how to win. The rivalry with Detroit may be dead, but if they can find that inner spark again as a team, success and possibly a new rivalry is just around the corner.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs.
Varly: you're awesome. We love you. Please don't break.
by andidee15 on Nov 8, 2011 10:35 PM MST reply actions 3 recs
I agree with everything you said. What made me play hockey in a football state was Forsberg’s passions. Roy’s hatred of letting ANY goal. I see that in these guys sometimes… it is almost like we need one of those asshole captains that drive it into everyone that NO ONE takes a shift off. No matter what play for what is on your jersey and who you represent.
by AvsfanTx on Nov 8, 2011 11:00 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
That’s the approach Sacco is trying with the doghouse and it’s not working. Maybe it would be different if it was coming from a player, but that player has to be able to practice what they preach, and unfortunately right now, that limits us to two guys that aren’t even old enough to drink. I LOVE both of those guys, but I’m not sure either have the extremely rare ability to lead a team at 18/20. I’m not saying they don’t have leadership, but even assuming they wait until next summer to pick a captain, O’Reilly would be 21 and Landy would be 19.5. If Landeskog was chosen, he’d probably be the youngest permanent NHL captain in history, beating out even Sydney Crosby (19 years, 297 days). If O’Reilly was chosen, he’d replace Steve Yzerman as #4 with only Vincent Lecavalier and Jonathan Toews younger than him.
In the future, I’d say that both of those guys would be excellent captains. But can you honestly say they are leading this team like Crosby, Lecavalier, Toews or Yzerman did when the were this young? Captains not only have to motivate the other players in the locker room – they also have to motivate them out on the ice. For forwards, that means creating points. Crosby, Lecavalier, and Yzerman all lead their team in scoring the year before they were named captain, and Towes finished third despite missing 16 games with an injury. O’Reilly currently has 62 points in his career, and Landy is currently sitting at 8th in the team standings.
But one might argue that our team is young and needs a young captain. It’s true – Lecavalier, Toews, and Yzerman’s clubs all were right around the same average age as the Avs when those guys were made captain, and Crosby’s was only a year older. But what goes unmentioned is the fact that Crosby had 8 players on his team with over 10 years experience, Yzerman and Lecavalier each had 5, and Towes had 4. Right now, the Avs have 2, with the next closest being Chuck Kobasew at 8. Those young captains had veterans in the locker room, people they could talk to and help them out. The Avalanche really don’t have that. And remember that young captains don’t always pan out – Lecavalier was stripped of his captaincy a year later when the Bolts decided he was still too young.
I’m not saying Landy or Radar would suffer the same fate, but being a Captain is a huge responsibility on any pro team. It’s not only about motivating the players or acting as a liason between them and the coach; it also means being able to step up, throw the team on their back and make the big plays happen when the team needs them the most. To be a captain so young, you almost have to be an elite player, a prodigy. I don’t think as of yet either of our candidates have that level of raw skill. Now, if you could take Radar’s attitude and add Duchene’s skill, then you’d have a captain. But Dutchy doesn’t have the same drive Radar does, the same heart. Both are good players, but neither are strong enough to lead this team as of yet.
I for one can’t get behind this idea of slapping the C on someone and hoping they step up. That’s backwards. A player has to step up and show he’s worthy of the honor before it should be given out. Right now, the Avs need a hero. They need someone to say “enough of this”, plant the team on his back and start winning games. The rest of the team will follow their lead, but someone needs to take that first step.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs.
Varly: you're awesome. We love you. Please don't break.
by andidee15 on Nov 9, 2011 6:26 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
This is your best post ever, I agree 100%. I am even sadder now
by avalanchejef on Nov 8, 2011 11:20 PM MST up reply actions
Hey andidee…interested in a coaching position?
Landeskog - O'Reilly - Jones. When.
by BraxtanFILM on Nov 8, 2011 11:22 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree. This team is lacking a fire that is created in the playoffs. I wish Sacco would name a Captain already. Somebody that sets the tone for the game each night. Stastny, O’Reilly, Quincy, Hejduk, and maybe Johnson or Duchene come to mind. We really had it good with Sakic and Foote in his brief return. We knew they would lead by example every time on the ice and they did. If Sacco doesn’t think anyone is worth of the “C”, than maybe they should bring in someone who is.
"If we cannot find a way, we will make one." -Hannibal
by AvalancheRescueDog on Nov 8, 2011 11:24 PM MST up reply actions
Effort and desire are huge, and I do think this team lacks it, but the reality is this team really isn’t all that talented. Paul Stastny is our highest paid player, and looked on as our best NHL player, but back in the first Avs Cup run, I’d rate him, oh, about …I dunno. Sakic and Forsberg were line 1 and 2. Kamensky much faster and better goal scorer than Stats. Lemieux…no contest, he brought scoring, guts and intimidation. You want a blood and guts player that could take on the Red Wings, and really piss ‘em off, it was Claude, who, by the way, chipped in 39 goals. Scott Young was an excellent complimentary wing. Deadmarsh, another no shit taken, decent scoring forward. Keaner, Ricci and Chris Simon were all banger, more blood and guts, who also got their 25 pts or so. Well, Simon was actually a pretty good offensive talent, for all the PM he got. Point is, I’m not sure Stats could even play on that team. The third line center was Stephane Yelle, another under rated, but important piece to the Cup winning puzzle. Now, I realize there was a huge desire to win, but the guys on this present day Avs team are minor leaguers in comparison to that team. We have to develop into a better hockey team, and it certainly is going to take time, probably a new coach, and more players. I love Radar, but his ability level is a solid third liner. Landy is a third liner, so far. The difference between this Avs team and, say the Wings, is that they have players whom they rate where their ability level is for the team to be a contender, and they develop those guys on whatever line the team believes them to be. By that, I mean, Draper and McCarty were always third liners. I’m sure their skill level, at times, probably asked for them to be up higher, on a scoring line, but for a great team, their roles are established. There’s no juggling lines, and the players accept their roles, and just get better at being a 3rd liner, or whatever they’ve been told where they fit on the team. Because of that, they can get consistent in their play, and improve what they need to do for their role, whether it be checking, defensive positioning, irritating the opponent, whatever. This also helps the FO pick and choose parts that fit, instead of choosing players who don’t have specific roles, and thus, never seem to find their mark on a team.
While i agree that the Avs look dull and lifeless, these guys really are trying hard and giving it their all, but there’s a sense of futility because they can’t do what their supposed role is, and that role is too murky for a young forward to figure out. That’s management and coaching at fault, more than the players. Dutchy wants to be Forsberg or Sakic, and he’s got the talent, but he has no idea how to play professional hockey on this level. That spin move yesterday was an amateur move. He makes poor decisions, and he’s not real close to being mentioned in the same vein as no. 19 and no. 21. But, I believe he’s working his butt off, and wants to win, he’s likely frustrated by not understanding how to adjust his game into winning hockey. Sacco’s doghouse doesn’t help a bit. If Sacco knew what he was doing, he’d sit Dutchy, for a game, and put him on the first line. Reducing him to the 3rd and 4th lines was just inept coaching. We’ve got a confused bunch of players, out there, and I think there needs to be some organizational idea cleaning, before a true house cleaning occurs, because if we trade, and shift players, it’s just like rearranging a dirty garage, into a different dirty garage.
...holy freaking f*ck, snakes!
Yeah, I’ll agree with you there. We have quite a bit of the raw talent needed to make a great team, but it’s still highly unhoned and therefore practically useless. We for sure have a lot less usable talent than Detroit. There are ways to overcome that and play better, but playing a gritty, outmatched-but-not-outfought style of game is not an easy task. Who knows – maybe it is time for Sacco to go. I just hate that a lot of people here keep thinking that the second Sacco leaves, so will the rest of our problems. The same players will still be here, the same attitudes. The coach is only there to help the players that want to be helped. Maybe there’s someone out there who can help these players better than Sacco and Co., but not much is going to change unless the players want it to. Some are trying and failing, like Matty D. But I don’t think that’s the case for everyone on this team right now.
The Avs are undoubtedly an underdog this year. Even though we have all these high, Hollywood-inspired misconceptions that underdogs can still make it to the top and win it all, truth is, 99% of underdogs fail miserably. This club is at a disadvantage talent-wise this year compared to many of the other NHL teams – overcoming that is not going to be easy. It can be done, but it’s going to take an incredible effort from every player every night. They need to figure out a way to win. It’s out there – we’ve seen it work this year. We just need this team to be a Winnik instead of a Wolski in order to make it happen. They need to play their tails off every night and make good things happen despite probably being way out of their league talent-wise rather than just hoping to win on skill alone.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs.
Varly: you're awesome. We love you. Please don't break.
The only way the problems go away with a new coach (and they wont all go away like you said) is if the Avs finally go outside of the organization…and/or clear the coaching slate. The recycled “Avs connection” has to stop. It hasn’t worked up to this point, why keep going to that well?
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
money
Sacco is on the cheap and a really good coach will cost them.
by the cool breeze on Nov 9, 2011 9:05 AM MST up reply actions
Another aspect of the model. Growing a coach organically is cost-effective, but if it works, that’s a great thing to have happen with a young team. It’s nice to have Sacco cheap, but if he becomes (and I am not sure he has yet) a detriment and a hinderance to the model, then a new one will be brought in and that money will be spent. It makes no logical sense to spend more money on players as the years progress but have a coach hold them back.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
I doubt that. I’m sure there are plenty of good coaches out there who aren’t coaching NHL hockey right now. You could offer them league minimum to be an NHL coach and they’d jump at the opportunity.
Wasn’t Bob Hartley repairing windshields before the Avs hired him?
Landeskog - O'Reilly - Jones. When.
That was Quebec that hired him, iirc.
e all know the Avs only hire from within.
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
Footer: We'll miss seeing you clear the riff raff off your lawn.
by Americanario on Nov 9, 2011 11:46 AM MST up reply actions
Andi, I can’t believe you have only just started to follow the Avs, as you speak with words of wisdom. However:
thinking that the second Sacco leaves, so will the rest of our problems. The same players will still be here, the same attitudes
I respectfully disagree with this bit, because if Sacco goes, so do the attitudes. It is a fresh slate and players will play for their careers, if not their pride.
"Time to bust out the increasingly shameful porn and let fly the balls of war!"
-AJ Hellofawaffle 2011
RIP Dan Wheldon, Marco Simoncelli
I may be new to hockey, but I’m far from new to sports. I’m a basketball coaches kid and I’ve been watching/playing it my entire life. Even though some may disagree with me on the similarities, at some point, team sports are team sports.
The reason I said that is from personal experience. In high school, I managed for the girls’ basketball team. Now, Woodland Park isn’t known for sports, so when I say that the Girls’ Varsity Basketball team was the worst in the school, it’s pretty dismal. As in, 5 regular season wins in 3 years dismal. If we only lost by 20, it was a good night. I was the stats keeper – I knew exactly how bad it was.
But the fact was that the girls weren’t as untalented as they seemed. They could have won more games. They never would have won the league by any stretch (we play against the 4A Colorado Springs schools), but they probably could have had a shot at 1 game in 3. But their problem was that they gave up. They knew they were going to lose the second they stepped on the court.
They also had 3 coaches in 3 years. Three different styles, three different ways of trying to change that deflated play. The third year, they had my dad, a coach that had been coaching girls basketball for 18 seasons that included some deep playoff runs with out-talented teams. I was at every practice, every game, every lockerroom chat, every coaches meeting. I know that he did everything he could to change their mindset, from pep-talks to more playing time for those doing well to benching and making them run and yelling until the vein above his right eye started twitching. He stayed after practice for a couple hours if any of the players wanted to work on anything, and he was always there to offer them suggestions on how to make their game better. He taught them plays and defenses that fit their personnel. He put in the time and the effort and had the technical knowledge of the game that was needed to make a successful team. Even after all of this, I think they had maybe one win that season.
Fact is, the Avs aren’t anywhere near the most talented team in the league. But if there’s one thing I learned from those 3 years of basketball, it’s that teams like that can still win some games when they truly believe they can win those games. They won’t win them all, but if the players adopt the attitiude of “yeah, we might be down by 20, but we’re going to make you work hard for every shot you get”, they at least have a shot of staying in the game. I only saw that attitude 6-7 times for a full game in WP, and they won about 5. It didn’t matter what the coach did – until the players bought into it, they didn’t go anywhere.
Coaches are a piece of the puzzle, yes. But they are a very small piece. They can’t MAKE a team win, they can only help one win. It’s up to the players to put in the effort to make it happen – without that, the most talented team with the best coach in the world won’t be very successful. The Avs have neither, so they just have to go out and work their asses off.
Winning coaches do not make winning teams. Winning Teams make winning coaches.
Sacco was a Jack Adams finalist his first year because Andy put the team on his back and the club had confidence. The next year, not much changed about Sacco, but the team lost confidence, lost that leader, and things went to hell quickly. Sure, if we get a new coach, the team will play better in the short term – there’s a compltely new feel to the locker room, who wouldn’t want to play well for that? (Besides Arason). But the honeymoon period will end and the bad habits will come back unless the players make up their mind that they need to change them. Perhaps this new coach will help them more than Sacco can; perhaps not. It’s completely up to the players.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs.
Varly: you're awesome. We love you. Please don't break.
I was part of the record setting losing streak for the football team, 5 years or something crazy like that. I remember when i played the coach would run the same play over and over again until “we got it right”.
To put it into perspective to those that never played against a Woodland Park team, as a senior I weighed 155lbs and played Defensive Tackle then Defensive End. We were stoked because we had cut the point margin of defeat in half from the previous year.
In unison: "Wonder twin powers Activate!" Varly: "Form of Goal"; Giggy: "Shape of Tending."
it’s got nothing to do with Sacco, you switch coaches last night and the result is the same. They don’t have enough talent to compete with the top teasm right now and Detroit is still a top team much to my disgust. They can’t kill a PP, that’s my only problem with Sacco. That isn’t based on talent only.
by the cool breeze on Nov 9, 2011 9:07 AM MST up reply actions
That’s a fair argument. And Sacco’s handling of the PK and dump and chase has me concerned right now as well. I just don’t think that swapping him out will help the Avs disappearing for stretches of time, even though I do agree that some of his on-ice strategies leave some to be desired.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs.
Varly: you're awesome. We love you. Please don't break.
Okay, so if it’s not coaching, then what is it? Trade more players?
Seems like we’ve tried that approach. Every player that supposedly had a problem with Sacco got dumped by the team. When does that end?
Landeskog - O'Reilly - Jones. When.
When there are no more players with a problem with Sacco? (a little sarcasm there).
I don’t know. But this team has no vets anywhere – not in coaching and not on the ice. Maybe it is time for Sacco to go and a fresh face to take his place since it will probably help for a while before the players drift back into bad habits. But a few veterans on this team SOMEWHERE (either coaching or players) might be a stabilizing presence and keep all the young guns in line emotionally.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs.
Varly: you're awesome. We love you. Please don't break.
I don’t know. But this team has no vets anywhere – not in coaching and not on the ice.
Hejduk isn’t a vet (12 seasons)? Giggy (13 season)? Kobasew (11 seasons)?
Now if you meant veteran leadership, that may be another story.
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
Footer: We'll miss seeing you clear the riff raff off your lawn.
I pretty much completely disagree with everything you just said. But you said it very eloquently.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 9, 2011 8:16 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
Care to say where you disagree, Jibbles?
"Time to bust out the increasingly shameful porn and let fly the balls of war!"
-AJ Hellofawaffle 2011
RIP Dan Wheldon, Marco Simoncelli
The Avs just don’t have that hunger, that competitive drive to go out and scrape and fight and claw their way to a win. If they don’t get the first goal, they either panic or stagnate and the game is over.
I’m with Jibs on this one, and specifically disagree with the premise as summarized above. There’s not a lot of evidence for this. I didn’t watch last night’s game, but the team hasn’t looked much different over the last few losses than they did during their string of wins and we weren’t complaining about drive then. There are a lot of reasons the Avs have lost games, but a better over-simplified explanation is that the Avs just aren’t as talented a team like Detroit and have a tough time adjusting to the style of play exemplified by Pheonix and Calgary (especially when they’re up a goal).
Laughter and tears are both responses to frustration and exhaustion. I myself prefer to laugh, since there is less cleaning up to do afterward. - Kv
by MalachiConstant on Nov 9, 2011 8:52 AM MST up reply actions
I didn’t watch last night’s game
Therefore, your opinion is rendered invalid.
Just kidding. I was quite happy with the team up until last night’s performance. I saw more than a shade of last year’s play and it made me sick.
I saw lazy passes, panicking, a lot of icing and an unwillingness to say “Fuck this, we are not taking this.”
Except Quincey, who wanted to hit everything.
Oh and the team needs to find a way to win against those teams mentioned, because it will be a short season, yet again.
"Time to bust out the increasingly shameful porn and let fly the balls of war!"
-AJ Hellofawaffle 2011
RIP Dan Wheldon, Marco Simoncelli
Therefore, your opinion is rendered invalid.
Totally fair to say really.
Laughter and tears are both responses to frustration and exhaustion. I myself prefer to laugh, since there is less cleaning up to do afterward. - Kv
by MalachiConstant on Nov 9, 2011 9:02 AM MST up reply actions
Only joking, MC.
As I said, last night’s game was the first one that really made me think "Oh shit, here we go again. "
"Time to bust out the increasingly shameful porn and let fly the balls of war!"
-AJ Hellofawaffle 2011
RIP Dan Wheldon, Marco Simoncelli
Don’t forget Wilson decking Zetterberg….that was the one time I found myself cheering
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
I’ll agree – there were good points of last night’s game. There have been good parts of all season with a ton of effort exerted. But the Avs have yet to figure out how to sustain a good effort over 60 minutes from 19-23 players. Our second periods seem to particularly suck.
The only way we can be successful is if we not only show up on time, but stay there for the full game. When we figure out how to do that, this team will be okay. Until then, every other club is going to keep taking advantage of our lulls.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs.
Varly: you're awesome. We love you. Please don't break.
Consistently sucking in the second period.
Is this because of
A. the coach not being able to make the right adjustments due the longer benches/longer changes.
B. the other team adjusts to what the Avs were doing in the first and the Avs don’t make the same adjustments?
C. Other thoughts?
In other sports (Football basketball) we often see roles reverse in the second half of a game, or one team takes control in the second half of a close game. Often this is because one coach/team makes better adjustments to their opponents game plan.
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
Footer: We'll miss seeing you clear the riff raff off your lawn.
by Americanario on Nov 9, 2011 11:09 AM MST up reply actions
That was sweet. Wilson is becoming my favourite D-man
"Time to bust out the increasingly shameful porn and let fly the balls of war!"
-AJ Hellofawaffle 2011
RIP Dan Wheldon, Marco Simoncelli
I have been really impressed by Wilson this year, or at least much more so than I thought I would be. He’s been playing well above my expectations for him.
Laughter and tears are both responses to frustration and exhaustion. I myself prefer to laugh, since there is less cleaning up to do afterward. - Kv
by MalachiConstant on Nov 9, 2011 9:09 AM MST up reply actions
Really? Because I thought his centering pass right to Lidstrom took a little of the shine off. He lays out big hits in the neutral zone just fine, only to get taken down along the boards and put the puck in the worst possible place.
4th biggest pessimist of MHH.
"There's always next season." -- Jimmy Howard on not winning the Calder Trophy.
Yu mean when he was pulled down by the Wings’ player and the pucked squirted out randomly?
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
Don't forget
Chuck Kobesew was in the corner getting some detroit crack whore’s number. WTF was he covering?
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
Who is Chuck Kobesew?
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
Chia is trolling today.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
legitimate question even when spelled correctly.
Laughter and tears are both responses to frustration and exhaustion. I myself prefer to laugh, since there is less cleaning up to do afterward. - Kv
by MalachiConstant on Nov 9, 2011 9:22 AM MST up reply actions
No, he’s just been practically invisible, and am choosing to ignore his existence
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
Thought so, just checking. Thought you might be mad about the whole “My kid is gonna be a goalie and chump me for the rest of my life” thing on The Book of Face.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
by Mike @ MHH on Nov 9, 2011 9:28 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Why would I be mad about that?
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
So that explains why the Avs seem to be on the PK ever 3rd or 4th line change
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
Footer: We'll miss seeing you clear the riff raff off your lawn.
by Americanario on Nov 9, 2011 11:12 AM MST up reply actions
Randomly?
There’s a reason no assist was awarded on that play. You could even see how disappointed he was with himself as he stayed knee down on the ice as the Wings celebrated.
4th biggest pessimist of MHH.
"There's always next season." -- Jimmy Howard on not winning the Calder Trophy.
I completely agree but that is the same sort of thing some people on here were jumping all over EJ for.
Except EJ wasn’t getting dragged down when he did it. EJ had a clear look and made a stupid play.
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
Footer: We'll miss seeing you clear the riff raff off your lawn.
by Americanario on Nov 9, 2011 11:13 AM MST up reply actions
Heh, I caught the joking :). But I put the qualifier about not watching the game in their for a reason. Hopefully last night was an anomaly, but I’m wondering how many “Oh shit, here we go again” games it will take for some drastic change and what that change may be.
Laughter and tears are both responses to frustration and exhaustion. I myself prefer to laugh, since there is less cleaning up to do afterward. - Kv
by MalachiConstant on Nov 9, 2011 9:08 AM MST up reply actions
I think blaming “desire” and “lack of effort” and “enthusiasm” is kind of weak. Sure it happens occasionally, but every time a a team in any sport struggles this same mantra of lazy complacent players gets trotted out. Maybe that’s not exactly what Andi said, but it’s along the same lines. The players have been playing hard. They have been making mistakes, yes, but thisteam is trying.
I mean the same stuff comes up every time aa team in any sport struggles… that if they somehow just tried a little harder they’d be fine. (Really this comes up in all parts of life, but we’re focusing on sports). But there’s a team on the other side that’s trying just as hard to keep the Avs from succeeding. In this particular game, that other team also happens to be better.
So I don’t think the answer for this team is to just try harder and get more competitive fire. This is a team that has tried hard. Success the last few games hasn’t been there, but it’s not due to lack of effort.
I can’t pick out one player on this team that doesn’t have the desire to win. It’s incredibly hard to get to this level while not trying. even those that make it, they soon burnout.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 9, 2011 9:13 AM MST up reply actions
No, definitely not saying they are lazy, but they looked a step away from Detroit almost all night. Whereas in other games, they have completely dominated, even if the other team scores against the run of play.
My points are this:
1) Sacco is not good enough to coach at NHL level. His bizarre doghouse sessions are my biggest gripe.
2) Kobasew is not a top 6 guy. Lindstrom has gone AWOL and I think that generally the Avs need a genuine top 6 winger.
3) I am convinced that if you exclude point 2, Sacco should still allow Jones and Galiardi playing time, because they are half decent.
"Time to bust out the increasingly shameful porn and let fly the balls of war!"
-AJ Hellofawaffle 2011
RIP Dan Wheldon, Marco Simoncelli
This post has me too damn irritated to respond politely.
by Pinchy The Lobster on Nov 9, 2011 9:28 AM MST up reply actions
Goddamnit. Why the fuck do you think they called it a miracle?
by Pinchy The Lobster on Nov 9, 2011 9:51 AM MST up reply actions
Because the Soviets didn’t play Tretiak. That was the Miracle.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
fierce desire to win
Varly has this. As much as I’ve seen, the guy fights for his crease, gets visibly upset when people score on him and makes those desperation saves and battles every game.
Paul Stastny did, what Paul Stastny does. Score big goals.
I’ve been meaning to post somewhere that I really like the fire Varly shows. He looks pissed out there all the time.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
Also, unrealated:
CBJ just got Mark Letestu for a 4th.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs.
Varly: you're awesome. We love you. Please don't break.
they have been working on that for a while
by avalanchejef on Nov 8, 2011 11:20 PM MST up reply actions
I feel like this team isn’t playing with passion. They have no energy, and are flat footed. I don’t know how many times they’re shots are getting blocked. When they were winning they were the first to the puck, used their speed, and played an uptempo style that was hard to compete against. Now they’re letting teams come to them, and they cannot do that. They’re PK is abysmal. The PP is the only thing that keeps them in games. The constant change of line combinations isn’t helping, but this team needs something to light a fire under their ass. They simply do not have it right now.
My Johnson is better than your Johnson.
wait… Wolski feels like we are floating and playing without passion? Shit
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Nov 9, 2011 8:48 AM MST up reply actions
To everyone bitching about the carousel of lines tonight
That’s what happens when you play seven defensemen. You can’t skate 2 forwards, so you have to roll somebody. And then to keep the bodies fresh you end up rolling everybody. It can work but I don’t think it was worth a night of Hunwick doing nothing useful for us in this game. I saw him make average plays, which is worth mentioning compared to some of the botches our D-corps has made sometimes, but he did nothing to make the most of his opportunity to play, to make himself stand out and say “You can’t deny me a lineup spot after this.” I get that he hasn’t played all season but maybe that’s evidence tonight wasn’t the night to roll with it. I’m really not sure what Sacco saw that made him decide to have Duchene center a line again tonight, maybe it was the same 7D issure.
Probably should have started Giggy tonight simply from a rotational basis, but I don’t think a different goalie changes the outcome one bit. Empty netter, fugly rebound, sure; but two perfect tips and a thing-of-beauty passing play that come from a team that just clicks together, nothing Varly or Jiggy could do there. The Avs got flat outplayed tonight as a team, and the most blatant Franzen tip and the tape to tape cross-ice passing power play goal were perfect examples of that.
This team has got to figure out how to either kill or stop taking penalties. When the PK was something like 6th in the league, they were also one of the 5 least-penalized teams. Now we take multiple penalties a night and respond by giving up multiple goals (flukey chest deflection goal in the one power play Calgary had notwithstanding).
And we need more scoring power. This has been beat to death so I’ll make this point quick: spend the money on a winger. We’ll probably have to wait for free agency for that and that makes me sad.
I thought Johnson and Wilson were solid, I thought Hejda was ok, I thought Quincey had one of his best games of the young season.
It's all about the O'
Time for change
This team is sliding further and further into the tank mentality. I say bring in a new coach before the few bright spots on this team start playing like the rest of the team.
Landeskog - O'Reilly - Jones. When.
Patrick Roy.
Colorado Avalanche Stanley Cups: 2
Vancouver Canucks Stanley Cups: 0
That's all that matters.
(Also, come talk to me when you've won nine straight division titles)
No.
OWL LINE!!! HOOO!!!! HOOOO!!!!
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: there will be blood and there will be wins.
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
The Number Zero, now in colour. Blood and Thunder Record: 6-6-0 (Total Record: 7-9-0)
by Tempestuous Binary on Nov 9, 2011 12:31 AM MST up reply actions
Absolutely not
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Nov 9, 2011 8:48 AM MST up reply actions
Unless he plans on playing goalie and reverting back to his Conn Smythe days…no thanks.
I want a coach with NHL experience…not another rookie NHL coach who we give a chance to.
Paul Stastny did, what Paul Stastny does. Score big goals.
I’m not saying I want Roy….
But Roy has more coaching experience than Sacco had when he came into the NHL. Roy has coached the Remparts since 2005.
And Roy has won at the level he’s at. The Remparts won the Memorial Cup during the 05-06 season.
Sacco was in LE 2 years and couldn’t win there.
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
Footer: We'll miss seeing you clear the riff raff off your lawn.
by Americanario on Nov 9, 2011 11:28 AM MST up reply actions
Sacco was in LE 2 years and couldn’t win there.
….because it was made up primairly of Avalanche prospects drafted in the Pre-Sherman age, aka a nearly talentless team. Roy’s actually had some talent to work with.
Something to think about….
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs.
Varly: you're awesome. We love you. Please don't break.
I don’t want Roy behind the bench because I like my heroes just the way they are. I don’t want to have long discussion threads about Roy like we do about Sacco. Other than seeing him wander out from the bench, I see no good of bringing in Roy. It would be like if Gretzky had coached Edmonton.
4th biggest pessimist of MHH.
"There's always next season." -- Jimmy Howard on not winning the Calder Trophy.
by Dixomatic on Nov 9, 2011 12:08 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
In talking with Angelique, who as we all know is the wise sage of the prospect pool, Sacco had difficulty motivating and working with the younger players in Erie as well. Apparently, everything we’re seeing now is the same as what the Monsters’ fans saw when Sacco coached there. I do not think the losing record was just because of the talent of the prospects. Also, it would be worth noting that the roster included some guys who were more than nearly talentless, guys like Hendricks, Hensick, Cumiskey, Dupuis, Durno, Bacashihua…
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: a mean, junkyard dog looking for revenge
by Cheryl Bradley on Nov 9, 2011 12:27 PM MST up reply actions
Call It How It's Seen...
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. The “Tank” has infiltrated this team, and as with any cancer, should have been removed before it had spread and taken full effect. Sacco should have RESIGNED from that embarassing collapse last year.
I also spoke about how this team needs to HATE TO LOSE more than it likes to win. There’s no one save for an 18 year trying to prove himself and Radar that have shown this mentality to me. That’s the difference between this team and Pittsburgh—Pens at least have solid core of players that absolutely HATE to lose.
Question: How do you give third star to the guy that gave Detroit all their momentum? That’s really what this game all hinged on. As soon as the Dead Things got their first goal, they showed that they were FIRMLY in control of the game. And for a team that plays puck possession hockey, that’s all they really needed. That turnover by Wilson was a backbreaker. The PK continues to showcase all these “young” players inexperience.
So, with that said, is the Islanders game the last chance for Sacco? Does Greg from Accounting use our deep D-Corp to pull a trade for a scoring winger with the like of Montreal or Tampa as they’ve both lost some of their crucial defensemen? Goodness, I wish they would’ve pulled the trigger and snagged Hitchcock while they could have—I’m sure he’d rather have inherited this talented team instead…
Hitchcock would destroy this team.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
Hitchcock’s already signed with the Blue Jackets, no?
"Time to bust out the increasingly shameful porn and let fly the balls of war!"
-AJ Hellofawaffle 2011
RIP Dan Wheldon, Marco Simoncelli
Blues…close
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
Are you for real? Disciplined styled hockey. Clear, decisive plays. Take your hate elsewhere because who else was available? Hitchcock lead 8 teams to at least 100 points or more. You think the Tank was a motivator? Winning is the ultimate motivator—you get this young of team a sustained and true amount of winners confidence and they rise up to their potential. I was for Sacco leaving last year, I gave him his 15 game “small sample size” chance to show me otherwise, and alas he did not.
KSE fired their Rapids coach a year removed from winning their first MLS championship. ONE year removed & Sacco retains his job leading this talented, but under utilized and underachieving team after the cluster collapse from last year? Give me a break…bring back Bob Hartley. Anyone’s gotta be better than this joke Sacco.
by quietstorm560 on Nov 9, 2011 8:00 AM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
Seriously, stop pining for Hartley. If he was such a good coach, he would have been hired somewhere in the NHL after his gig with Atlanta.
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
I mention him because he was given a quick exit after terrible with this team. And again I stress anyone would be better than Joke Sacco. Except for the Monsters coach—as apparently their fans are suffering through similar issues. More evidence of a flawed system.
by quietstorm560 on Nov 9, 2011 8:06 AM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
Management and expectations were vastly different when Hartley was fired. It was basically Cup or Bust back then…this is a rebuild, under a different management
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
Is it really a rebuild when you mortgage the future for an unknown goalie? Bear in mind, I like what I’ve seen from Varley—a lot. But the fact is a move like that indicates that they want to win now and NOT stockpile draft choices for the future. I don’t think the rebuilding excuse works anymore. Just like the unlucky excuse doesn’t. Great teams find ways to win games, not lose them. Coaching is but a piece of the puzzle but after last year’s effort it’s clear that the coaching here is inept at outrageous levels.
by quietstorm560 on Nov 10, 2011 12:32 AM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
Great teams find ways to win games, not lose them.
Of course, but the Avs aren’t a great team yet.
Is it really a rebuild when you mortgage the future for an unknown goalie?
Yes, is the short answer. The long answer has already been beat to death around here. But “unknown” is pretty disingenuous. The guy has posted all star numbers when healthy in his career. The risk/reward factor is well known, and well accounted for.
But the fact is a move like that indicates that they want to win now and NOT stockpile draft choices for the future
No, that means they are trying to plug organizational holes and not end up like Columbus and Florida. Nobody wins a cup entirely with draft choices, and there are plenty of busts to go around with 1st rounders even so. (another story)
Just like the unlucky excuse doesn’t
I don’t buy into Corsi at all, for the simple fact that it sucks on a lot of levels. (It can’t tell me who will win tonight. It can’t tell me who will win tomorrow. It can’t tell me who will win the cup. it is useful for a GM who is calculating numbers on ice/ dollars. But for a fan watching each game each night, it’s about as handy as plus/minus. The simple fact is that the Avs have out played numerous teams and lost. They have also been outplayed and won. Corsi would make me a very very bitter person on those levels).
I expect the end results to change, or I will jump in someones wagon. If a GM uses Corsi to make the determination to make a change, so be it- great. But the other fact is, like George Mcphee said in 24/7, “if they knew anything about the game, they’d be in it”. And most of the corsi blah blah I’ve seen is from people who can’t even skate, much less be in the NHL. While I give everyone the right to criticize, I also reserve the right to call BS.
Sorry, don’t know how that turned into a corsi rant. This team has problems. Firing the coach won’t turn them into contenders. Sorry guys, ain’t gonna happen. I think the problems lie in the fact that they are a bunch of underpaid, undertalented scrubs. I also believe the hope is that they will mature in a few years to be much better. Remember the ‘95 Nords? No? Well, this team isn’t so much different. Patience.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
I hate to argue with you too much, because I agree with most of your points, but I think you’re completely mischaracterizing Corsi, what people are drawing from it, and the people who use it. It’s a probability and it pretty much agrees with stuff you said here (It can’t tell me who will win tonight. It can’t tell me who will win tomorrow.)
By knowing that it’s summer you can tell me any individual day it’s most likely to be hot and sunny, but you can only tell me most likely. You don’t know if clouds will roll in, or wind, or anything to that effect. That doesn’t mean that knowing the season is useless in day-to-day planning.
But I more have a problem with statements like this: But the other fact is, like George Mcphee said in 24/7, "if they knew anything about the game, they’d be in it". And most of the corsi blah blah I’ve seen is from people who can’t even skate, much less be in the NHL.
That’s a pretty damn elitest attitude in my opinion. One of the best kicking coaches in NFL history was in a wheelchair for life. Many of the best coaches in any sport, play the sport on a low level, but never excel at playing. Bill Belichek played football at the high school level. Boudreau never made it out of the AHL, and I can’t even find what level Bob Hartley ever played, but it wasn’t any kind of pro league. “Playing the game” is helpful, but is in no way a prerequisite for gaining knowledge of the sport.
Besides, Corsi is a results evaluation tool. It cannot tell you why it happened, only what happened. IT doesn’t differentiate between line combos and Xs & Os, and all that good stuff that goes into coaching. And I don’t think anyone ever intended it to.
All Corsi is, and all it does, is measure possession, and it’s an approximation at that, (A very good approximation). But there’s also a pretty strong correlation between teams with good corsi and winning over the long haul. But what Corsi also says is that the biggest factor determining who will win between two relatively evenly matched teams (which every team in the NHL is) on any given night is random chance, which is exactly what you said above, just in different language.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 10, 2011 7:51 AM MST up reply actions
By knowing that it’s summer you can tell me any individual day it’s most likely to be hot and sunny, but you can only tell me most likely. You don’t know if clouds will roll in, or wind, or anything to that effect. That doesn’t mean that knowing the season is useless in day-to-day planning.
I’m going to misuse your analogy here to set up context for the following statement:
From a fans perspective, you don’t need Corsi to know the things Corsi tells you. They are, for the most part, either patently obvious already or just as uncertain as a rationale person’s observations from simply watching the game.
If you’re so inclined, what’s something interesting that Corsi was singularly valuable in revealing?
Laughter and tears are both responses to frustration and exhaustion. I myself prefer to laugh, since there is less cleaning up to do afterward. - Kv
by MalachiConstant on Nov 10, 2011 9:17 AM MST up reply actions
For me, One example is how valuable Winnik really was. Last year, just by watching him play, he seems so average, but he’s so good defensively and in such good position that he is a really good defensive player. I didn’t notice that at all, but then I looked at his numbers and it caused me to look a lot more at him. (Understanding it’s not just Corsi, but putting Corsi in context with OZone%, and Qualcomp, etc).
Another example is just how bad Jack Johnson is. He has these decent offensive numbers, and he can throw a big check, but his defense is just so horrendous that it counters any offensive ability he has at all. He has huge swings (high highs and low lows) that he averages out to a very average player.
As for team Corsi – It made me more optomistic for the Avs this season. Their Corsi towards the end of last season was atrocious, but that was an anomoly and everyone could see it. But for the beginning of the year it was really good. It made me appreciate that the team would likely be a lot better this season.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 10, 2011 10:37 AM MST up reply actions
Thanks Jibs.
I should’ve seen this coming before asking, but I don’t know the stats well enough to discuss your Winnik example; and besides, I wouldn’t want to tell you what you should/shouldn’t find interesting. For Jack Johnson, I just don’t watch LA play. Cop outs ftw.
Your team Corsi example raises an interesting questions though. How many games worth of data do you think is required to have a reliable team Corsi? As you noted with the Avs, the team Corsi was better when they were winning and worse when they were losing. Over a long enough period, the direct statistics (i.e. the win/loss column, GF/A, etc.) are just as more indicative of a team’s strength than more contrived stats.
I can certainly see how “advanced stats” would be much more useful evaluating individual players, but I’d maintain that it would be extremely difficult to parse out a player’s environment from the data (i.e. linemates, other influences, etc.)
Laughter and tears are both responses to frustration and exhaustion. I myself prefer to laugh, since there is less cleaning up to do afterward. - Kv
by MalachiConstant on Nov 10, 2011 11:15 AM MST up reply actions
I don’t think corsi, itself parse’s that out, but there are some other stats that do. (For example OZone% has beena revelation to me, and PDO is another great one that is a good measurement of luck, er beneficial/detrimental random chance) People like QualComp and qualTeam, but I’m not sure they are so good.
As for length of time, well there’s graphs out there for how well it takes luck to even out in Corsi. Its a much shorter time than GF/GA, which makes sense because there’s a ton more Corsi events (shots, blocked shots, etc) than goal events. The more data, the more randomness goes away.
Again though, there needs to be some context to Corsi. Most people like 5v5 score tied Corsi a lot better, it gives a much better indication because it takes out score effects. Takes out more data though as well. IT’s really hard to find as well.
I think we’re at a point this year where the data is stating to be reliable. Another 10 games will give us a good idea how good this team is, unless something anomolous happens like last seaosn, IMO
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 10, 2011 11:47 AM MST up reply actions
Its a much shorter time than GF/GA, which makes sense because there’s a ton more Corsi events (shots, blocked shots, etc) than goal events. The more data, the more randomness goes away.
Fair enough, but I’m not sure that it’s all that practical through an NHL season, let along multiple seasons. At then end of the day, ‘number of Wins’ is the only stat that matters. It would therefore make sense to conclude that in order for other statistics to be useful they would have to be able to predict win/loss performance over a longer period (i.e. more events in a shorter period able to predict fewer events over a longer period). It would be pretty easy to argue that NHL teams just aren’t static enough to allow the sort of predictive quality you need for a statistical method to be truly useful.
It’s likely safe to say, you don’t need advanced stats to know that SJ and Detroit will start tallying more wins than they have been so far; though advanced stats could be useful for a more marginal team like the Avs. Have they been over/under performing? Problem being, for a more marginal team like the Avs, I’m just not convinced of the predictive abilities of Corsi specifically, without comment on other advanced stats for lack of doing my homework. This is for a variety of reasons, including that if a team is perceived to be significantly under-performing then changes are made, making analysis less reliable. Additionally, it’s jut difficult to say whether your advanced stats analysis is really capturing the core influences in a teams play the more “marginal” that team is. Here I’m saying “marginal” in place of a fluid roster, sporadic performance over a significant period of time, etc.
Laughter and tears are both responses to frustration and exhaustion. I myself prefer to laugh, since there is less cleaning up to do afterward. - Kv
by MalachiConstant on Nov 10, 2011 12:14 PM MST up reply actions
Well from what I’ve seen, Corsi has worked pretty well so far. Last season: ok Colorado was an anomoly, but most Corsi followers had Dallas fading, even late in the season (they were in 1st in their division Jan 1). I’m not so sure everyone had that pegged.
Same deal with Atlanta (and Byfuglein for that matter). And ti had the Avs fade in the season in which all this came to a head. The Avs faded to 8 and were knocked out i the first round.
so it’s been pretty remarkable correct, especially from a team level, in my opinion.
Again, we’ll see how it goes but If the Avs keep playing relatively similar then I think their record will significantly improve (just as when they were 5-1 I expected them to have setbacks).
That’s kind of a catch-22 for advanced stats though right? If they don’t match what people see then people say they are obviously wrong, but if they do match then people say “Well I don’t need them to tell me that”. Look, some things are obvious: Vancouver, SJ and Detroit are all better teams than their record. You don’t need Corsi to tell you Sidney Crosby or the Sedins are really really good Watch 5 games and it’s obvious.
But there’s a whole lot of gray, and there’s a whole lot of small sample size that comes into play. Does anyone expect Edmonton & Minnesota to get Vezina+ calibre goaltending all season? (No), but what will happen when that save % regresses to the mean? I don’t know, I haven’t looked at their Corsi numbers this year, but Corsi can help answer that question much better than GF/GA and W-L right now.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 10, 2011 1:07 PM MST up reply actions
It’s definitely a catch-22, but I’d still consider it true.
Does anyone expect Edmonton & Minnesota to get Vezina+ calibre goaltending all season? (No), but what will happen when that save % regresses to the mean? I don’t know, I haven’t looked at their Corsi numbers this year, but Corsi can help answer that question much better than GF/GA and W-L right now.
This is fairly compelling, but I think what Corsi et al can say here is roughly how much you can expect Edmonton (for example) to drop off once/if goaltending drops back to the mean. Logically, we can say if goaltending gets worse, the team won’t do as well. The question then becomes, how much worse? This is where the stats fail in the precision required for them to be truly useful – to me anyway. It’s going to be a super rough estimate one way or another.
Someone into their hockey stats may ask the question of what would happen if/when EDM goaltending levels off and decide that their Corsi has been X, so it would be reasonable to conclude they could maintain a winning percentage somewhere in the range of Y. For a bubble team (where predictive stats would be usefully predictive and not just mostly descriptive), the preciseness of the prediction is pretty damn important.
I realize I’m not setting up my skepticism in a way that’s easy to counter in an absolute fashion, but I think the discussion is fun. So thanks.
Laughter and tears are both responses to frustration and exhaustion. I myself prefer to laugh, since there is less cleaning up to do afterward. - Kv
by MalachiConstant on Nov 10, 2011 1:56 PM MST up reply actions
This is fairly compelling, but I think what Corsi et al can say here is roughly how much you can expect Edmonton (for example) to drop off once/if goaltending drops back to the mean. Logically, we can say if goaltending gets worse, the team won’t do as well. The question then becomes, how much worse? This is where the stats fail in the precision required for them to be truly useful – to me anyway. It’s going to be a super rough estimate one way or another.
I think that’s what I was trying to get at. I haven’t looked at either teams Corsi in a while, and not their ES Corsi, so I can’t say for sure. But If I did I would certainly have some predictions.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 10, 2011 3:16 PM MST up reply actions
Above: What Jibble Says
What I hear: blah blah blah Corsi blah blah blah
(it’s like thta Far Side cartoon with the dog names Ginger)
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Nov 10, 2011 9:41 AM MST up reply actions
I think you may have misunderstood me a little bit, or I wasn't being clear
I understand that corsi is fine for some people as a tool; I was trying to say that I have no use for it.
As far as McPhee’s quote goes, notice he only says “in the game” not “plays the game”. You don’t have to play the game to know about it and be in it. You could be a coach, trainer, whatever, and you’re “in” the game. I’d agree that there are many people outside the game who have knowledgeable opinions, and the context of McPhee’s quote would suggest he’s just trying to blow off detractors, but I’d also argue that there are just as many people who give truth to the “opinions are like assholes” aphorism.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
I probably misunderstood where you were coming from a little bit.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 10, 2011 11:41 AM MST up reply actions
KSE fired their Rapids coach a year removed from winning their first MLS championship.
This isn’t necessarily a good thing. Everyone who followed the USAMNT swore up and down that Bob Bradley was the problem and that, despite his success, he was the problem. So he was fired and they picked up Jurgen Klinsmen (someone I like). The results have been less than impressive.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 9, 2011 8:07 AM MST up reply actions
Well that’s completely different. Kilnsmen was brought in to change up the entire US system which was desperately needed. We didn’t have the defensive talent or organization to play the counter attacking game and don’t have the skill to play ball control and out pass everybody. Since starting he’s been fielding a large variety of players to find out exactly what he’s got and what the best way to move forward. The focus now is on building up the system from the youth system up.
Also, once games start meaning a little more then just friendlies then we’ll be able to get a better sense of where we are at as a team now under his leadership.
Agree there, but the problem is a youth and development system, which was really outside Bradley, and Klinsmens, control.
But my point is that just because pro teams fire coaches all the time doesn’t make it the right move. I think Pro sports teams, in general, are way to trigger happy when it comes to firing coaches.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 9, 2011 9:16 AM MST up reply actions
I think the idea is that Klinsmen is going to delve into the youth system. He didn’t take the job earlier because they wouldn’t give him the power to do so, which lead to Bradley being in the position he was in. Klinsmen took the job once he got more power to control things at the youth level. I’m excited to see what comes out of the change but i’m not getting my hopes up to fast. I feel like it might be something along the lines of when you see a NFL head coach being in charge of all player personal etc. and having to much on the plate to do a great job at everything….. hopefully not though……
This was an ugly game, not right away. But once that 2nd goal was scored, this team was dead in the water. They found a few minutes of life at the end of the 2nd period (which Sunnyside McNabb called “a great comeback”), Once the 3rd period started though, the team was back on it’s heels…not because of any great chances by the Wings…but more because the Wings realized they were the dominant team. The Avs had no offensive pressure after that, the Wings hardly ever fail to clear the zone, AND they employed the trap which the Avs simply can NOT beat.
If this was a test game against the Western Conference’s best, the Avs failed pretty bad
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
Oh mediocrity. You’re like a worn pair of slippers. I wish the Avs would get a new fucking pair.
Constant lurker, occasional commenter
by tbonius monk on Nov 9, 2011 4:59 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
2 things
1) I love Stastny cross checking people, he clearly had some feistiness i him.
2) I hate blaming coaches. I hate it. But, this defense should not be running around like this. Being 7-7-1 is fine, i guess, but something has to give. I know this team was getting unlucky and all that the last few games and it should even out, but either add some power or adjust who is running this defense.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
Defense has been a problem for 4 years under Sacco/Lefebrveshestf…this goes back to their AHL days. The defense has almost all new and healthy personnel, is bigger and should have a different approach…but it’s the same “run around” system of the last two NHL years. And goaltending isn’t covering up the bad D riht now, making it worse
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
Yeah. I hate to think that way but it might be becoming an issue.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
If it was a one year thing, I might be able to excuse it…but it’s a trend, just like horrible penalty killing. At some point you have to take a look at that trend, and realize it may not be the players, but rather the system the players are in. And I might be willing to excuse it if it was the same group, especially on D…but it’s not this year, yet the problem persists.
And the Sacco doghouse BS has GOT to stop. Galiardi has his best couple of games of the year just a short time ago…then has one “meh” game, and is benched the next game.
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
System or no system, my disappointment in Hejda is growing with every game. It’s to the point where when I see No. 8, I expect bad things to happen.
4th biggest pessimist of MHH.
"There's always next season." -- Jimmy Howard on not winning the Calder Trophy.
I disagree. I think he’s playing fine. I think his mistakes are a result of the system.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
The “run around like a chicken with your head cut off” defensive style
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
HA!
I literally choked on my coffee then. Thanks for that.
"Time to bust out the increasingly shameful porn and let fly the balls of war!"
-AJ Hellofawaffle 2011
RIP Dan Wheldon, Marco Simoncelli
I think he’s been okay, not stellar, but ok. Again though, I am giving this team and coach until Thanksgiving.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
When’s Thanksgiving? The end of November? If so, that sounds fair and not too late to salvage a season.
"Time to bust out the increasingly shameful porn and let fly the balls of war!"
-AJ Hellofawaffle 2011
RIP Dan Wheldon, Marco Simoncelli
Jibs mentioned this above as well, but for me that’s always been the best time to judge.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
Oddly enough, last Thanksgiving would have been a good time to just say “Yep, the Avs are great!” And then not watch another game.
4th biggest pessimist of MHH.
"There's always next season." -- Jimmy Howard on not winning the Calder Trophy.
Absolutely. How come when the D first came here, they were pretty awesome. After a dozen games or so, they look just like last year’s D in many respects. How does that happen? What changed?
If anyone thinks I am being hyperbolic, I am. However, the Dead Things game exposed all the weaknesses and bad habits that stellar goaltending has covered up.
Like last year:
a) Ineffective dump n chase
b) Complete failure to clear the zone
c) PK is just horrible. If the Avs take a penalty, just give the other team a goal and spare us te hassle.
d) Confusion all around
"Time to bust out the increasingly shameful porn and let fly the balls of war!"
-AJ Hellofawaffle 2011
RIP Dan Wheldon, Marco Simoncelli
Look guys
I expected a .500 team AT BEST this season. I expected a 10-12th place finish. I expected bumps with new personnel (practically new due to all the injuries last couple of seasons). I expected learning curves for a still-young team. I expected depth to be an issue on the top 6. So far, that expectation has been met to a T.
I didn’t expect to see so few goals scored. I didn’t expect so few injuries. What happened to the “That’s what we do!!” team from last season? Is consistency an issue for this team when it doesn’t have the injury excuse to fall back on? Is it Gali and Jones not performing in the same roles that’s the difference? Is everybody waiting for Mueller to come back?
I just get the feeling that this team is treading water. Losing streaks happen. I don’t think the team has accepted it or isn’t angry about it, but I don’t know if they have the extra gear to push them through. At some point it stops being a series of bounces and it becomes a statistical trend that can be used to accurately predict outcomes. I’m worried that that point is rapidly approaching.
Caveat: I didn’t watch the game last night. But when I did get home and turn the game on (just in time to see Duke’s PP goal and the inevitable empty netter), my first question was “Who the fuck is 22?”
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
You didn’t miss much. The Avs looked alright in the early going. The Wings took over. The Avs got a tad bit of life late in the 2nd…then the Wings took over again in the 3rd
I’m starting to think that “culture of losing” is starting to seep in. Last year the players passed it off as growing pains, and injuries, and “we are trying but can’t get the results.” This year, when the team is down (outside of the Dallas game really), they seem to deflate. They still skate hard, and get some chances, but it looks futile
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
Like I said up-thread, we have to start playing with a “never say die” attitude if we have any chance of being successful. Maybe another coach would bring more of that, but truth is, it has to start with the players.
I wouldn’t be all that upset even if their system imploded and they skated around willynilly and lost 20-0 if it looked like they cared about the game and played hard for 60 minutes. Last night, even though I didn’t see the full game, I could see that they just sorta quit. And it’s not just that game – it’s becoming a trend. Losing breeds losing, but it’s only a mental state. The mind can be controlled – the decision to start winning can be made. It’s not an easy decision to follow through on, but it can be done. It needs to be done. Something needs to give.
BTW – I’m so happy we drafted Landy. He’s one of the few that actually looks like he cares most of the time. We need more of that attitude on the team – hopefully he and O’Reilly can keep it up and help it spread.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs.
Varly: you're awesome. We love you. Please don't break.
I couldn’t disagree more with the idea the team looks like they don’t care and they need a never say die attitude. If this was the case, they wouldn’t turn it on so big in the latter stages of the game. I wouldn’t see them cursing on the bench or wacking the ice in frustration. They wouldn’t publicly call themselves out for bad games.
Desire, drive, ethic, attitude are not the issue here.
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: a mean, junkyard dog looking for revenge
by Cheryl Bradley on Nov 9, 2011 8:01 AM MST up reply actions
They need something to turn it on early. It’s all well and good that they can turn it on after being down…but they are finding themselves down way too early and way too often
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
I agree, but I don’t think desire is the issue.
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: a mean, junkyard dog looking for revenge
by Cheryl Bradley on Nov 9, 2011 12:29 PM MST up reply actions
I never said it was. Looks like preparation is a big part of this…for the past 3 years
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
Oh I know you didn’t; just running off the thread in general. And I agree about preparation. Often times last year, they wouldn’t practice the things that really needed improvement (sup special teams?)
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: a mean, junkyard dog looking for revenge
by Cheryl Bradley on Nov 9, 2011 4:22 PM MST up reply actions
I haven’t seen them whacking the ice or the posts or something like that, which is why I think the way I do. They seem quite nonchalant about it.
If desire, drive ethic and attitude aren’t the issue, what is?
"Time to bust out the increasingly shameful porn and let fly the balls of war!"
-AJ Hellofawaffle 2011
RIP Dan Wheldon, Marco Simoncelli
Well, I have, both on TV and in person. Mostly in person.
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: a mean, junkyard dog looking for revenge
by Cheryl Bradley on Nov 9, 2011 12:30 PM MST up reply actions
Oh, they find it later in games. They even sometimes find it at the beginning. But they have yet to keep it up for 60 minutes, especially if they find themselves down by one goal. One goal does not mean you are out of the game, but this team continually keeps playing like it is. I don’t think they’ve come back to win a single game in regulation when they gave up the first goal.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs.
Varly: you're awesome. We love you. Please don't break.
“Play a full 60 minutes” is one of the biggest cliches in hockey for a reason: all teams fall into that trap. I’m not excusing it, but I don’t think that has been the case with most games. Most games, I’ve seen them busting their asses shift in and shift out. Perhaps because they’ve been unlucky at times and aren’t rewarded for it they’re getting frustrated. Perhaps that’s what you’re interpreting as a lack of desire.
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: a mean, junkyard dog looking for revenge
by Cheryl Bradley on Nov 9, 2011 12:34 PM MST up reply actions
You're absolutely correct.
OWL LINE!!! HOOO!!!! HOOOO!!!!
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: there will be blood and there will be wins.
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
The Number Zero, now in colour. Blood and Thunder Record: 6-6-0 (Total Record: 7-9-0)
by Tempestuous Binary on Nov 9, 2011 4:50 PM MST up reply actions
I thought exactly the same as you until I saw the game and it was pretty awful. Inability to clear the puck, Matty D trying to take on the defence all by himself, no offensive pressure whatsoever, PKs which sucked donkey balls blah blah blah.
I agree with Chiavsfan – the team seem to be okay with losing. They certainly aren’t playing otherwise.
"Time to bust out the increasingly shameful porn and let fly the balls of war!"
-AJ Hellofawaffle 2011
RIP Dan Wheldon, Marco Simoncelli
And I KNOW that isn’t true…but that’s what it looks like
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
Exactly – that’s what it looks like. Also, I know it’s not body language and stuff, but have you seen Varly after he has given up a goal or two, (in the Detoilet game) his eyes had this “WTF?” questioning look as his D was skating past.
"Time to bust out the increasingly shameful porn and let fly the balls of war!"
-AJ Hellofawaffle 2011
RIP Dan Wheldon, Marco Simoncelli
I thought the Avs looked worse than they have lately last night.
&
I’m sure this is clearly a coincidence, but I also thought they played a better team than the one’s they’ve been playing recently.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 9, 2011 8:09 AM MST up reply actions
But, but, but…..that doesn’t excuse the whole inability to clear the zone thing. Or the half-arsed dump-ins whilst coasting in.
They just looked like they weren’t chasing that puck.
"Time to bust out the increasingly shameful porn and let fly the balls of war!"
-AJ Hellofawaffle 2011
RIP Dan Wheldon, Marco Simoncelli
We realize that Detroit’s better than most teams at causing turnovers, and keeping teams from clearing the puck right?
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 9, 2011 9:16 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
Not pulling your tail, Jibbles, but do you have stats to prove that?
Cos, that would make me feel better if true.
"Time to bust out the increasingly shameful porn and let fly the balls of war!"
-AJ Hellofawaffle 2011
RIP Dan Wheldon, Marco Simoncelli
Well turnover stats are reliably unreliable, but I was just going to go on the whole “They’ve been a really really good team for about the last 20 years” thing.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 9, 2011 10:04 AM MST up reply actions
you are correct. This team finishes 2nd to last in the league and they add a couple avg d-men and an 18 year rookie and lose Mueller and everbody is shocked? WTF?
Detroit is just a better team, nothing more to read into it. They smoked the last team they played too. The Avs have 10 of next 12 at home and they can get back in it with a little home cooking. They just need to play a simple game and not panic. They will be okay I think but they don’t have the talent yet, that’s just a fact. Go get Whitney for a 4th and things get better overnight.
Kobasew is not an NHL player, Gali is a 4th line role player, McLeod should be cut and bring up Malone, Porter can’t even make the line-up, Lindy is a joke. Those are just the facts. Look at the top players on other teams, we are not there yet.
by the cool breeze on Nov 9, 2011 9:18 AM MST up reply actions
I appreciate your agreement, but your continued Whitney campaign is somewhat tiresome. Do you honestly think that a player as valuable as you portent Whitney to be can be had for a fourth-round draft pick? Especially given some of the prospects in Colorado’s system? You want Whitney? Fine. Interesting option. Why is he more attractive than just playing David Jones in a role he’s proven he can play?
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
here's why
Right now they don’t have a 2nd line and whitney is a LW, which they need. You get him and now the first line is back to sos, jones, duke, 2nd line is Dutchy, Whitney and likely Lindy. I think that line could score. Whitney has 14 pts and more goals and points than any Av. He’s 39 and makes 3M and Yokes are not winning the cup this year. Maybe a 3rd rd pick would do it, happy to give it. I don’t know who else they can get without mortgaging the future too much. He’s not the long term answer but would help lots this year. Good on PP 2nd unit too. Also, some leadership and he’s won 2 cups.
by the cool breeze on Nov 9, 2011 9:33 AM MST up reply actions
So you think a guy (a proven veteran leader, by your own description) playing at ~ PPG pace can be had for a 3rd or 4th round pick. Got it. We’ve now established what you think of PHX’s management. Add in the fact that he is the very definition of a rental and both parties would know that coming in, and you think that given COL and PHX’s relative organization depth that PHX would settle for a 3rd rounder for him? They know that COL has no first round pick this season, has a pretty deep pool of d-men and promising goalies and PHX will just take a third?
None of that makes any sense.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
yes, he’s THIRTY-NINE, you think anybody is going to give them a 2nd for him. Liles only fetched a 2nd and he’s still in his prime. Teams aren’t going to give a 2nd for a 39 year old guy. He will get moved at trade deadlione regardless, so remember this post.
by the cool breeze on Nov 9, 2011 10:03 AM MST up reply actions
I will. And I bet there’s a prospect coming the other way. My point is that PHX is dealing from the position of strength in these fictional negotiations. For them to be having talks would require them to be out-of-the-running and the Avs to be in the running. Why would they take a 3rd or 4th in that position?
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
only b/c he is so old that they can’t leverage more than that. I agree though that say moving Elliot or something like him for Whitney would be idiotic. I don’t think any team will give up a prospect with a high ceiling b/c of age. That said, I agree that if Phoenix doesn’t fade a bit they may hang on to him. They are alos in limbo as a franchise so maybe they dump a little salary to make it more appealing to a buyer.
by the cool breeze on Nov 9, 2011 10:25 AM MST up reply actions
Avalanche! You’ve got to be number one! I won’t tolerate any losers in this family! Your passing is for shit! Win! Win! Win!
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: a mean, junkyard dog looking for revenge
Karate Kid reference FTW!
"Time to bust out the increasingly shameful porn and let fly the balls of war!"
-AJ Hellofawaffle 2011
RIP Dan Wheldon, Marco Simoncelli
Nope. Breakfast Club.
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: a mean, junkyard dog looking for revenge
by Cheryl Bradley on Nov 9, 2011 12:39 PM MST up reply actions
Love that movie!
I should watch it again tonight.
It's all about Winnik
by Sandie Gauthier on Nov 9, 2011 4:53 PM MST up reply actions
No one has brought it up yet (at least that I’ve read), so I’ll offer what I think could be a major problem with the Avs right now: they don’t have a captain. I think these guys are too young to not have an officially designated captain.
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: a mean, junkyard dog looking for revenge
It is fast becoming a joke. And the rotating A seems to go between two people that don’t deserve it in Silent Jay and Cody Mac.
And for gods sake, lets not go the rotating C route. How’d that work for MN?
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
I don’t think it’s working with any of the three. Give it to Hejduk until he retires. Be done with it. Worry about finding the leader of the future after you’ve figured out the team of the present.
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: a mean, junkyard dog looking for revenge
by Cheryl Bradley on Nov 9, 2011 8:02 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I think this is part of the problem with this current team. Management seems to be thinking long term, and future, and the old “build from within” mentality. They don’t seemed concerned about the “now” just the “later”
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
Yup
I agree with what you are saying.
It's all about Winnik
by Sandie Gauthier on Nov 9, 2011 4:53 PM MST up reply actions
Ridiculous statement. What makes you say that those two don’t deserve it? That’s the absolute height of arrogance, you making a statement like that. You don’t know jack or shit about what into that decision.
by DiD on Nov 9, 2011 1:19 PM MST up reply actions
1.0 Dans.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
the “jack or shit” is an interesting twist
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Nov 9, 2011 2:28 PM MST up reply actions
Elliott Friedman
Had a bit about Ken Holland, whose probably one of the three best GMs in the league, that he doesn’t think you can truly know your team until American Thanksgiving. The Avs have 7 games before then. 4 against teams I expect to be bad/ok and fade (Dallas, Minnesota, NYI, CGY) & 3 against teams I expect to be very good and have good records by the end of the season (PIT, SJ, VAN).
If at that time the Avs are really struggling, then I might start jumping on the panic bandwagon, if they rebound from this and go 4-3-0 or 4-1-2 or something, I’ll see this as a bump in the road.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 9, 2011 8:15 AM MST reply actions 2 recs
That seems calm and reasonable so I’ll agree, along with the gut feeling I’ve had since the shootout winning streak that all the signs are there.
It's all about the O'
by SteveHouse on Nov 9, 2011 8:19 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
That seems calm and reasonable, so I’ll disagree and run around in a panic, waving my arms over my head.
THE SKY IS FALLING!!! THE SKY IS FALLING!!! THE SKY IS FALLING!!! THE SKY IS FALLING!!! THE SKY IS FALLING!!! THE SKY IS FALLING!!!
Thinking about this still makes me sick to my stomach.
It's all about the O'
by SteveHouse on Nov 9, 2011 8:17 AM MST via mobile reply actions
I might start jumping on the panic bandwagon
I am already driving it.
Call me snake-bit or whatever, but overall, I don’t have much any faith in Sacco and his systems. Last year was a horrific clusterfuck of the giantest proportions. Down largely to injuries, but even so. The year before, the Avs went into free-fall after the Olympic break and I’m sorry, but I don’t think this year is going to be massively different.
Oh, and yes, when you change over half the team, you can’t blame it on players.
"Time to bust out the increasingly shameful porn and let fly the balls of war!"
-AJ Hellofawaffle 2011
RIP Dan Wheldon, Marco Simoncelli
While I am not sure there is a better option right now, I do not think keeping Sacco is going to make a winner out of this team.
by spokane-avs-fan on Nov 9, 2011 2:29 PM MST up reply actions
Agreed. Thanksgiving may be too late to right what Sacco has wronged. I gave him 15 games to show me he had evolved past the Tank mentality—results show absolutely no progress.
by quietstorm560 on Nov 10, 2011 12:41 AM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
I want the Avs to win.
But if they lose every game, yet still beat the Wings a part of me is satisfied.
Losing to the Wings just sucks ass in every way. I’m sure they get great satisfaction out that fact, I know I would.
Water is wet.
I'll keep this brief.
by Dario on Nov 9, 2011 8:35 AM MST reply actions 2 recs
0-2 this year. No chance to win the season series. = Sad panda
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
When Stewart got his against the Blues on the empty netter, he said as much himself.
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: a mean, junkyard dog looking for revenge
by Cheryl Bradley on Nov 9, 2011 12:41 PM MST up reply actions
I still advocate that this team will not make the playoffs again until Sacco goes (even if Varly does a Andy from 2 years ago, the rest of the team wont net the goals this time). I think all of the problems of this team are glaringly coaching staff issues.
First is the drive to win. I don’t care if we don’t have the best offensive on paper. Its about the drive to win. You know, that thing that makes the 4rth line look like the 1st in the playoffs. A few players are born with abundance of it. Sakic, Foppa, Roy… the rest of the team found it. You know how you find it? Coach it. Let the other players pound it into you. Do you think Sacco lets players outburst like a pissed off Roy would? I don’t get the feeling he does.
Second is confidence. Now confidence can be tricky. Can be the player, can be the team, can be the coach. I see everyone struggling this season (except the 3rd line). Once you get confidence you should be able to keep it for more then a few games. Either Sacco doesn’t know anything about building confidence (doghouse anyone?) or he doesn’t encourage the team to do what teams do to help each other realize they are playing for the Colorado Fucking Avalanche and the best hockey players in history have their names hanging above their heads and they need to fucking play like it.
Talent? Give me a break Sacco lovers. Heart can make a less talented team better then a .500 team.
Fire Sacco bring in an outside coach. Trade for a captain. We need one and I think Sacco has ruined anyone on this roster for them to fill those shoes right now. We need someone who can step in and show them what a locker room should like. I know Sakic was soft spoken but he had firery personalities to get pissed for him. We had Roy to throw a trash can when too many shots were coming in. (No, I don’t want Roy to be coach).
Goddamnit Someone throw a trash can. Someone get pissed! I know I am.
Do you think Sacco lets players outburst like a pissed off Roy would? I don’t get the feeling he does.
Except players have said that this kind of thing has, in fact, happened over the past two years. And then are those “players only” meetings where the captain is supposed to “help the rest of the team find it.” So really, you should be pointing your finger at the Avs’ captain this ye— oh wait.
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: a mean, junkyard dog looking for revenge
by Cheryl Bradley on Nov 9, 2011 12:43 PM MST up reply actions
I need something to be positive about, so here it goes.
Record against Detroit
07: 0 – 4. Made Playoffs
08: 3 – 1. Sucked.
09: 2 – 2. Made Playoffs.
10: 2 – 2. Sucked
This was supposed to make me happy but now i am still sad.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
Yeah, if it was always 0-4 or 1-3 and made the playoffs…it would be easier to stomach
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
Take away the skills competition and the Avs have 4 wins in 15 games.
Taking into consideration the 5-33 finish to last season, how many other teams in this league would have pulled the plug on Sacco by now?
4th biggest pessimist of MHH.
"There's always next season." -- Jimmy Howard on not winning the Calder Trophy.
It’s unfair to use last year in my opinion. I give him until Thanksgiving and at that pointI will judge him.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
Let’s speculate that the Avs drop 3 out of 5 of their next games. Is it time for a new coach? How about if the team is staunchly below .500 at the break. Does Sacco go then?
Prior to the season there was some MHH guessing of what kind of record it would take for Sacco to stick around or leave. Just wondering if we’re still in the same mind set as before.
Laughter and tears are both responses to frustration and exhaustion. I myself prefer to laugh, since there is less cleaning up to do afterward. - Kv
by MalachiConstant on Nov 9, 2011 9:13 AM MST up reply actions
Yes. I think so. I think if this team is under .500 at Thanksgiving, Sherman and Enos pull the trigger. And I am one of those who wants Sacco to be given a full year, but if this team is below .500 their playoff hopes are threatened, the Varly trade is looking worse, and the business model is suffering.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
If the business model is threatened, do you think Sherman is safe?
4th biggest pessimist of MHH.
"There's always next season." -- Jimmy Howard on not winning the Calder Trophy.
That is the billion dollar question. I think he is. His moves are risky, clearly, but I would take the same risks. I think his moves have been smart over all, some sucked, but he has created and is continually creating a very good team. If Sacco hinders that or is hindering it, Sacco should go first in order to protect the model.
Then, if it seems Shermans’s moves do not pay off, the model is effectively ruined and Sherman must go.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
The moves within the bargain basement budget have been good. Overall though, Jay Mac (who was supposed to help our wretched PK), Kobasew, Lindstrom…it’s been ugly with forwards…the biggest need on the team
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
Agreed. But defense and goalie issues came first and the offense would hopefully grow organically with some addition after the fact.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
The D was addressed, but isn’t looking up to snuff, and while I like the goaltending tandem, with a D, they are looking average to adequate. Varly has had his moment of spectacular, but behind this D right now, he’s coming back to humanity
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
One of the differences I’ve noticed with the D is the lack of physicality lately. They don’t seem to be punishing the other team nearly as much. I’m wondering why this change happened. Is it them, relaxing back into some other style of play? Is it a coaching decision? If so, whose? Sacco’s or Lefebreveresert?
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: a mean, junkyard dog looking for revenge
by Cheryl Bradley on Nov 9, 2011 12:48 PM MST up reply actions
It was said at the beginning of the season we would be hard to play against in our zone.I agree it has not turned out to be so.
by spokane-avs-fan on Nov 9, 2011 2:22 PM MST up reply actions
Wasn’t this a problem with that duo in LE as well?
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
Sorry, i am new the blog. Not sure which duo??
by spokane-avs-fan on Nov 9, 2011 3:05 PM MST up reply actions
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Nov 9, 2011 3:23 PM MST up reply actions
Sacco and Lefebvre coaches together in Lake Erie for two very unsuccessful season before being promoted to the Avs. Same problems there that they are now having here
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
Sacco? you just named the real problem, a shit owner and a GM who knows less about hockey than plumbing issues. We are the only team in history with a GM who knows nothing about hockey. They could have signed Ryder or a real NHL player and go get Lindy and Kobasew, please!
by the cool breeze on Nov 9, 2011 9:21 AM MST up reply actions
You would take Ryder and his contract?
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
all day, why not? he has 6 goals, I believe that’s twice as many as SOS.
3.5M and he’s only signed thru next year. Even in our rebuilding mode there’s no pain in that. Fleisch at 4m for 2-3 years I would have done too. They have sooo much money to spend it wouldn’t hurt them at all.
by the cool breeze on Nov 9, 2011 9:36 AM MST up reply actions
Flash was not worth that money. I watch Ryder a lot in Boston and I would not take him for 600K. He’s a Wolski.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
he has more goals than ANYONE on the Avs, not sure you saw that point, thus he IS producing. Lindy makes 600K and he is a beer league player, even though he really is their best option on 2nd line with the right players.
by the cool breeze on Nov 9, 2011 9:47 AM MST up reply actions
He doesn’t have those 6 goals in a vacuum. He wouldn’t be responsible for creating them in Colorado either. You can’t just laterally translate players and expect for the production to be the same. He’s got a pretty decent team around him in Beantown.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
Yes
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Nov 9, 2011 9:37 AM MST up reply actions
They could have signed Leino too, and that isn’t really working out too well.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 9, 2011 9:25 AM MST up reply actions
I never said him, agree with you there, not the money but the term. It’s ealry though so he may do okay.
by the cool breeze on Nov 9, 2011 9:52 AM MST up reply actions
But it’s really easy in hindsight to see who they should have signed. I don’t think the wing market was very good this sumer, and the only one I thought was worth the money was Gagne. OThers disagreed because of injury history with him (and it was a risk).
But saying they should have signed someone then cherry-picking the guys who have done well, and not the guys who have floundered is kind of diningenious. I thought the guys who were out there were vastly overpaid for their risk. I hate that the Avs are wafer thin at LW, but I was ok with them not taking a risk on any of those incredibly risky bets, Ryder included.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 9, 2011 10:06 AM MST up reply actions
That’s not what I’m saying, pick any one of the NHL caliber guys and I agree with you. Lindy and Kobasew are not that. I agree Tomas got lots of money but the term is the issue. Ryder only got 2 years so there is ZERO effect on the Avs going forward. They are 20M under the cap and even signing guys for next year it wouldn’t affect them. For 4 years? Then I agree
by the cool breeze on Nov 9, 2011 10:12 AM MST up reply actions
Surprisingly we went shopping for forwards at Walmart. I wonder why …..
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Nov 9, 2011 10:15 AM MST up reply actions
a total shock for sure. Where is Svatos!
by the cool breeze on Nov 9, 2011 10:26 AM MST up reply actions
That’s fair enough. There were certainly better LWers out there than Lindstrom and Kobasew.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 9, 2011 11:25 AM MST up reply actions
Namely
Most.
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Nov 9, 2011 11:34 AM MST up reply actions
I haven’t seen enough of Lindstrom to make a definitive judgment yet, so I’ll reserve comment on that one. But Kobasew is, in fact, an NHL caliber player. He is not, however, a top-6 caliber forward. There’s a distinct difference.
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: a mean, junkyard dog looking for revenge
by Cheryl Bradley on Nov 9, 2011 12:51 PM MST up reply actions
I actually thought Lindstrom looked pretty good last night, he doesn’t panic when he’s got the puck, and he made some nice passes. Not sure where his best fit is, though. He doesn’t seem to have any defensive instincts at all, which would make me want to keep him away from Duchene. I think I saw he was practicing with Stastny and Hejduk today, which I think would make sense.
Kobasew is fine for a 3rd or 4th liner. I can’t imagine anyone expected more than that when he was signed.
I do think we would have been better off retaining Flash, overpayment or not.
by DiD on Nov 9, 2011 1:24 PM MST up reply actions
On Flash, I agree. But I don’t think he wanted to be here.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
He said he was looking for a team where big time travel wasn’t an issue…AKA eastern conference
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
Needs more jiggawatts for time travel. Especially big time travel.
It's all about the O'
by SteveHouse on Nov 9, 2011 3:05 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Speculation
I wonder if the Montreal scout event matters because I would not mind if the Avs traded for Kostistyn.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
talk about a wolski like flake. He’s the last thing we need, another soft forward and here’s a guy who definitely will disappear when the going gets rough. MALONE baby!
by the cool breeze on Nov 9, 2011 9:48 AM MST up reply actions
B-b-b-b-but he has 5 goals.
OWL LINE!!! HOOO!!!! HOOOO!!!!
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: there will be blood and there will be wins.
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
The Number Zero, now in colour. Blood and Thunder Record: 6-6-0 (Total Record: 7-9-0)
by Tempestuous Binary on Nov 9, 2011 5:02 PM MST up reply actions
why is everybody defending Sherman and mngt???
He comes into the year counting on Mueller (got forbid we get one other top 6 guy hurt) and signs Koba and Lindy. Call me crazy but he’s the one who needs to go, not Sacco who has nothing to work with. Sacco can switch the lines until he’s blue in the face and he still will barely get 2 decent lines. If he did nothing during a losing streak then what would we all be saying- switch up the lines, blah, blah, blah.
by the cool breeze on Nov 9, 2011 10:15 AM MST reply actions
I’m not defending him (and most aren’t really, you’re just reading it that way, IMO). The depth at wing was apparent to even the most novice of hockey fans. Banking on Mueller for anything was a mistake. It was also pretty low risk for a rebuilding team that likely wouldn’t be in the playoffs.
That being said, he doesn’t hold the purse-strings.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
The word you’re searching for is “ownership”.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
by Mike @ MHH on Nov 9, 2011 10:32 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
Right, so how do you change the owner? You don’t, but what I have tried to do is analyze their actions and make sense out of them. I think I have actually done it or at least gotten close.
The goal is a Stanley Cup Champion team. Everyone involved wants that. Their method for achieving that is straightforward I think and their plan is slightly more complicated and nuanced.
There will be misteps (Hunwick), accidents (injuries), and bad luck. Enos will run this team on his model and Sherman will either promulgate it successfully or be fired.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
If only we had a dedicated thread to this topic, the whole “who is to blame for this mess” thing, maybe even a poll …. And if only it weren’t buried in a fanshot …..
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Nov 9, 2011 10:34 AM MST up reply actions
Flagged.
Still not buying what you’re selling.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
Occupy MHH!
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Nov 9, 2011 10:38 AM MST up reply actions
There is an argument that Sherman is the problem and I think this year/next year will determine that. He took gambles on Johnson, Varly, and Landy. It is unfair to judge him on that until enough time has passed to test his gambles.
There is also the Enos argument that hinders Sherman. To Sherman’s credit he got Varly away from Washington and got Johnson from St. Louis by selling (possibly high) Stewart.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
Varly
I don’t see how getting Varly is to Sherman’s credit when the Caps didn’t want to pay Varly, Varly didn’t want to play for the Caps, and an offer sheet at $2.8 only would’ve cost a 2nd rounder, particularly given how valuable early first round picks have become and how terrible the Avs have been for two of the last three seasons.
I agree he deserves time on Johnson and Siemens, although McClement seems fairly useless.
I think Lindstrom and Kobasew are Kroenke’s fault more so than Sherman’s.
by Andrew_in_Seattle on Nov 9, 2011 1:36 PM MST up reply actions
$2.8 million, obviously.
And if Sherman was concerned about the Caps matching, or how about being tied up with Varly while everyone else signed, I think that if he offered the Caps a second and something else, they probably would’ve gone for it.
by Andrew_in_Seattle on Nov 9, 2011 1:41 PM MST up reply actions
Seems to me it was kind of a desperate move. I think it was too much to give for someone who was on the outs with his current team but Sherminator blinked and the Cap’s won a big one, regardless of where the Av’s finish in the standings.
by spokane-avs-fan on Nov 9, 2011 3:19 PM MST up reply actions
Jibs has talked about this. The price paid for Varly was on-par with other first-rounders with his level of experience/potential/etc. (paraphrased of course).
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
Not to mention that various folks in the Caps org said they would’ve matched the offer sheet.
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: a mean, junkyard dog looking for revenge
by Cheryl Bradley on Nov 9, 2011 4:26 PM MST up reply actions
Caps didn’t want to pay Varly
Yes they did.
OWL LINE!!! HOOO!!!! HOOOO!!!!
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: there will be blood and there will be wins.
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
The Number Zero, now in colour. Blood and Thunder Record: 6-6-0 (Total Record: 7-9-0)
by Tempestuous Binary on Nov 9, 2011 5:03 PM MST up reply actions
They may not have wanted to pay him, but they sure as shit weren’t going to lose him for a song, either.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
Yep, still makes me sick
It's all about the O'
by SteveHouse on Nov 9, 2011 10:37 AM MST via mobile reply actions
Not enough time to sift through all the hate!
Please Avs, make the hurting stop!
Landeskog - O'Reilly - Jones. When.
I don’t think it’s rocket science here. We only have enough talent up front right now for 2 even somewhat effective forward lines. That’s it. And when our best players aren’t our best players, as Stastny and Duchene have not been for big chunks of the season so far, then we’re really screwed. Enos made this bed. Now we’re sleeping in it because he could care less.
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
Yahoo says Mueller is still in non-contact sweater, Avalanche are reporting he’s participating in full practice. Does he come back soon?
Living in the D, but It's All About The A.
Just Chuck Testa
It's all about the O'
by SteveHouse on Nov 9, 2011 3:03 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Even if he comes back, I can’t imagine he’s going to be useful any time soon.
by Andrew_in_Seattle on Nov 9, 2011 1:37 PM MST up reply actions
Even if he does, I’m not convinced he’s the answer. When he came back to start the season, he was ineffective. He needs AHL time to get his game going before we toss him into a situation where he’s looked at as some kind of upgrade over what we have.
Don’t forget it’s been almost two years since he impressed us when he first got here, and that was for only a small sample size.
4th biggest pessimist of MHH.
"There's always next season." -- Jimmy Howard on not winning the Calder Trophy.
4th biggest pessimist of MHH.
"There's always next season." -- Jimmy Howard on not winning the Calder Trophy.
It’s happening now
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
by chiavsfan on Nov 9, 2011 2:27 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Fast forward past last season. In fact, never play last season again.
Landeskog - O'Reilly - Jones. When.
by BraxtanFILM on Nov 9, 2011 4:34 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Slow Joe has got to go!
It's All About The AA
by moltobenny on Nov 9, 2011 4:05 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Ban DOUG1986.
I want to randomly rabble, too!
OWL LINE!!! HOOO!!!! HOOOO!!!!
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: there will be blood and there will be wins.
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
The Number Zero, now in colour. Blood and Thunder Record: 6-6-0 (Total Record: 7-9-0)
by Tempestuous Binary on Nov 9, 2011 5:05 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
LOUD NOISES!!!
Aebischer. Nope. Salo? Ha! Sauve? Nah. Theodore. Meh. Kolesnik? Hey bud, nice shootout against the Devils, but no. Budaj? You kidding? Anderson, close, but no cigar. Elliott? GET THE TANK!!! Varlamov and Giguere? To the playoffs...AND BEYOND!!
I like lamp.
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Nov 9, 2011 5:14 PM MST up reply actions
Reminds me of some times when I have called the Avalanche the Lavalamps, cuz they look really pretty but don’t do a whole hell of a lot.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
Avalamps.
Thought food: if Joe Sacco is fired, Sylvain Lefebvre will be the Avs' new head coach. Think about it.
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: there will be blood and there will be wins.
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
The Number Zero, now in colour. Blood and Thunder Record: 6-6-0 (Total Record: 7-9-0)
by Tempestuous Binary on Nov 10, 2011 12:28 AM MST up reply actions
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