Joe Sacco should stay... really.

by GeorgeInLimbo on Dec 11, 2011 5:02 PM MST

The Avalanche have embarked on what has, so far, looked to be another disappointing season. The special teams are inconsistent and our forwards are frequently overpowered with exception to the Landeskog-O'Reilly-Hejduk/Winnik line. In the past, the team lacks experience and have banked on a fast-paced, passionate game. The team today seems to lack both experience and passion in their on-ice play which is an easy recipe for failure. Not much fun to watch on TV that is also produced like crap. (Altitude needs to step up their game)

But when it comes placing blame, there has been little controversy. The hipsters blame Stan Kroenke; the liberals blame Pierre Lacroix; I blame it on seldom discussed consequences of capitalism. But none of that matters. The majority of the dedicated Avalanche fans out there blame this man:

C'mon! Look at that smile.

Joe Sacco has been criticized for mishandling goal situations, line combinations, team captaincy, Matt Duchene's bad play, John-Micheal Liles bad play and the poor performances on special teams and really just in general. Regardless, I say we keep him here all season long. Don't replace him. Seriously.

It is true that the man has had a hell of a time working through injuries, pretty much always being short 1 or 2 (or 3) top six wingers. One could also look to the constant shift in the team dynamic since the beginning of last season. Sacco is also very new to the NHL. He was just kind of thrown into the water so we can all watch as he teaches himself to swim.

Have the players really tuned him out? I think this is kind of a strange thing for a fan to speculate on. Nobody is in the locker room, but you certainly don't see anybody singing his praises now like they had before. Maybe the players don't need to like him to play well for him. A little tough love can be a good thing, can it not? Sacco has always been one to try and give confidence to players when they demonstrate effort. Regardless of whether the players like him or not, the team's aristocracy is what must truly stay intact. The ability to govern his team to their fullest potential as a team. What does the team really have to lose, a playoff birth? I'm not sure replacing Joe Sacco would necessarily have that dramatic of an effect.

Another thing suggesting that a coaching change may not truly be the answer is the fact that were pretty trendy for a short while there. Turned the St. Louis Blues around, but not Anaheim, Washington or the Canes. The Senators also got a new coach at the beginning of the season and their not exactly turning heads. Being trendy should not hold precedence over being prudent. We need to look at the fact that just maybe, Sacco is acting as a scapegoat just a little.

This team doesn't need a new coach, just a little more forward depth and defined roles on the team. It is these things that will bring the team success, but we're still observing how some of the players on the team are developing. That is on the Front Office, but it seems as if they still have a plan. Maybe they are just waiting on one or two more pieces. Give Sacco what he needs, give Duchene what he needs and you will the fans what they need. A fast, successful team to watch win some hockey games.

If he can't deliver that by the end of the season, than his contract is up anyways.

---------------------------------------

-I must admit I did watch Dater's videos of the most recent bag skate courtesy of Sacco. I'm not a perfect human and that may have played a role in this post. Looks far worse than the last one.

-That is correct. I want Sacco to stay and I read Dater's blog. As a journalist, I don't really have an opinion of him. I can respect his cynical attitude and dry sarcasm on the All About the Avs blog. Here's the link to his blog and video: http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2011/12/11/avs-get-bagged-again/9106/

-I'm predicting a move is made by the Avalanche sooner rather than later. I'm even going to predict the team the Avs will be trading with. The Habs. If I get it right, I'm taking bragging rights.

-Here is a poll. I really don't like adding them. I think people just think they are a fun way to compare what you think to the rest of MHH. Just remember to not marginalize your opinion into the 3-6 options offered. Develop your own ideas. It's good for the brain and also for humanity as a whole.

Poll

Should Joe Sacco finish out the year?

Yes! The name sounds like a more Italian "Sakic". Good enough for me.

16 votes

No. His name sounds too much like "Sakic" to be forcing this kind of disappointment onto the fan base.

40 votes

I'm hungry.

42 votes

98 votes | Poll has closed

MileHighHockey.com is a fan community, allowing members to post their own thoughts and opinions on the Colorado Avalanche and hockey in general. These views and thoughts may not be shared by the editors of MileHighHockey.com.

Tweet Comment 55 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

There are many things wrong....

Injuries (I think some are playing through them and Mueller). Players not living up to expectations (Captain Erik…. pffff; I don’t think so after what I’ve seen) Talent just not being there (Kobasew/suck reminds me too much of the Slap Chop/Shamwow). Rumors of who is running the show behind the scenes don’t help either.

I’m torn.

I think good quality FA signings would help… but everyone said that Hejda was a great signing at the beginning of the season, and so far, all he’s done is be an atrocious -a lot. But being disgustingly cheap just doesn’t help either. Spending $$$ might not solve the problem, because I think Sacco isn’t a good coach to established NHLers.

That being said, of all the changes that >could< be made, firing Sacco is the easiest. Which is why I think it will be done.

That also being said, the easiest solution often times, isn’t the best solution. If we hire from within though…. I predict another 5 seasons of shittyness. We need to hire a winner (Carboneaux or Carlyle)

by Markopolo on Dec 11, 2011 7:49 PM MST reply actions

hahahahahaha good joke. Now get Sacco out of here!

"I cannot really hear what Jeremy says because I've got my two Stanley Cup rings plugging my ear."-Patrick Roy

by brabin on Dec 11, 2011 7:52 PM MST reply actions

I voted Yes.

That’s right, I was the first person of 12 to do so. Call me a fool, or a naysayer, or a devil’s advocate, or the guy who held out in jury deliberations against 11, but I will exercise my freedom of speech and right to protest the majority opinion so help me God.

by HansoBonanzo on Dec 11, 2011 8:10 PM MST reply actions

We have an asset right now ladies and gentleman. Youth! We are we are, the youth of the nation. We have so much potential, so much room to grow and gain experience. The most detrimental thing to a youth’s development is to give up on them, or to give up on yourself. Duchene and O’Reilly and many players on this team are only just beginning their NHL careers, as is Sacco.

He is a young coach, and was given a young team to work with. Experience is so vital. Bring in a veteran coach to take the head position, and a couple veteran players. Our young core could learn and improve from vets who’ve played outside the organization. Ultimately, Sacco can learn and improve as an assistant coach to someone from outside the organization who brings a system that our team can identify with.The team will retain its youth and early years they shared in its adversity, and benefit from the addition and diversification of experience.

by HansoBonanzo on Dec 11, 2011 8:35 PM MST up reply actions

And what about our “youth” learning and adopting the culture of losing that they seem to have since last year’s All-Star break? That’s the thing that I’m most concerned about—stunting the development of our young potential stars on a coach that cannot win back to back regulation games consistently and cannot adapt to in game adjustments. It is alarming because franchises bank so much on these young players to revitalize the team, and yet if all they “learn” is losing—regardless of talent, front office, ownership, etc—that’s what they are tagged with. You NEVER saw anything like this with Pittsburgh once they acquired M.A. Fluery, Malkin, Staal and Crosby—NEVER. And what happened there? Coaching change and for the better. Bylsma (a grinder when he played, much like Sacco) knows that he plays his BEST players with the most ice time. Not 3rd line wings (ahem, Winnik, ahem). It’s moves like this that show Sacco really doesn’t have the mindset of an NHL caliber coach—yet.

by quietstorm560 on Dec 12, 2011 1:29 AM MST up reply actions

Wrong

Crosby’s first year the team ended with 58 points, a whole 58. They had 22 wins. Even Crosby has learned about a losing culture. But our Avs have learned about a winning culture too, remember 2 years ago, making the playoffs, and even up to the all star break last year. that was a winning culture. I just don’t buy that argument ever. This team has won as much as they have lost (give or take a few games) over Sacco’s tenure here.

by ProfessorOak on Dec 12, 2011 8:38 AM MST up reply actions

Ha. Ha ha. Ha ha ha. Okay. Facts are facts. You’re right. Congratulations. And yet they still shipped out Eddie Olczyk and Michel Therrien. Does that give you any indication as to how their management felt about a continued culture of losing and underachieving?

If you’re content with the “effort” that you’re seeing on the ice with the culture of losing, then that’s on you. I’m not. A lot of other posters here are not. Hell, a lot of the entire fandom are not pleased with it. You liked what you saw on this last swing through the Canadian portion of our division? You’re content with that and the culture of losing—fine. But what we saw then and have seen for roughly 6 full months (including the second half of last season) of hockey is a team that is no longer buying into a defunct coaching system. He’s lost them. And that’s the scariest part of it all.

I granted him a pass from last year. I expected him to wisen up and learn as well from it just as he said his players had. The results I’ve seen for this season NOWHERE indicate that he’s growing as a coach, anymore than they indicate this team has grown. Who’s there to “bagskate” Succo? Who’s supposed to send him to Occupy: Bernie’s Dogghouse? Too much of the culture of losing, and it’s becomes habitual. I do not want that (accepting habitual losing) for this team—EVER!!!

by quietstorm560 on Dec 13, 2011 6:32 AM MST up reply actions

In Sacco's defense

He hasn’t exactly had a lineup like Pittsburgh’s to work with. Last year the wheels fell off and it became apparant that our team sorely needed to get bigger on defense and find a new goaltender. We did that, but now our top 6 forwards are bruising for some talent like the Pens have.
Sacco’s record as a head coach is just a slip below .500 in 2 1/4 seasons with a team that hasn’t had well-rounded talent or even the elite talent that Pittsburgh is graced with.

You get what you pay for, and we’re not paying for diddly shit. Its no wonder we’re less than mediocore.

by HansoBonanzo on Dec 12, 2011 11:49 AM MST up reply actions

Fair enough. I see the disparity in talent between the two teams. But where was all the discussion about limited talent when people continually bring up his Jack Adams nomination? I’m sorry, people can’t have it both ways.

So let me ask you a few honest questions, do you feel that we’ve got some potentially solid pieces on our squad? Do you think that a culture of losing habitually would benefit these pieces and their potential growth? And yet, when management has decided that it’s Playoffs or bust by acquiring our next draft pick a year early in a young goaltender, does a culture of losing still benefit this team as a whole?

by quietstorm560 on Dec 13, 2011 6:37 AM MST up reply actions

well we all know the answers to that

but you are assuming that losing is habitual. This team just doesn’t have as much talent as others do, therefore we lose more than we win. We have a lack of a goaltending coach which doesn’t help either. I think us losing isn’t a habit but a mere consequence of us sucking due to lack of talent, not because they are used to losing.

by ProfessorOak on Dec 13, 2011 9:45 AM MST up reply actions

Okay, I could see that, I could. Then let me ask you this, where was all this “lack of talent” talk when people were begging for Sacco to receive the Adams? What, if anything, has Sacco shown that he’s learned from the abysmal streak that we ended last season with? All the things that I’m seeing (3rd worst PK in 3 consecutive years, 7 regulation wins in 60 odd games, inability to adjust during games, 1-9 divisional record) indicate that we have a talentless coach to go along with our talent concussed roster, right? All the issues I listed are things that coaches are held accountable for—5 coaches have lost their jobs over similar instances of play this year so far. So?

by quietstorm560 on Dec 13, 2011 10:26 AM MST up reply actions

I may be wrong, but I thought the clamoring for Sacco to win Jack Adams was precisely because his team had such a lack of talent and still did so well, when everyone expected it to finish last.

by JML1 on Dec 13, 2011 11:31 AM MST up reply actions

Well I answered I’m hungry because I wanted to be as honest as possible

by LeonardoC6 on Dec 11, 2011 11:11 PM MST up reply actions

Honesty is the best policy.

"It's not my fault I never learned to accept responsibility."-Woody Paige

by GeorgeInLimbo on Dec 11, 2011 11:12 PM MST up reply actions

Hunger is a very powerful feeling.

by DiD on Dec 11, 2011 11:55 PM MST up reply actions

I see what you did there!

I was on the “Fire Sacco” bandwagon before it became the majority opinion. However, like sage people have said, the rot starts at the top and permeates the organisation. In a mouthful of broken and rotten teeth with infected gums, firing Sacco is like putting a filling in and ignoring the rest.

However, you can’t fire 23 players, so what are you going to do? I believe that with the young players on this team, they would respond well to a coaching change. They are not cynical enough (‘sup Washington) where a coaching change won’t make much difference.

"Wisdom requires a flexible mind" - Dan Carlin

by Nemesis44UK on Dec 12, 2011 2:33 AM MST up reply actions

Sacco had his Chance

the players may like him but what i see is his dump & chase style that may benefits Radar and Landy but at the same time ruins skilled players like Stastny and Dutchy. I also see his total incapability when it comes to adapt the gameplan during the game. (normaly a no brainer for a NHL Coach)

The 0-6 loss to Vancouver is the best example. The Nucks clearly figured out how to shut our offense down but Sacco artless sticked to his gameplan. (btw. exactly the same as agains the Devils) The confidece got lost so did the momentum, and the team ended up loosing like in many games before.

Personally i´d fire not only Sacco but the entire Coaching Staff, and hire a goddamn fulltime goaliecoach!

by Hazelnut on Dec 12, 2011 6:07 AM MST reply actions

Here's what Sacco said about the dump and chase

“…hit everything that moves. Dump it, get on the forecheck, be tough to play against…we’re not gonna score a whole lot of rush goals…against good teams in the playoffs, you don’t score those easy rush goals…you have to work for your goals, you have to be physical, you have to forecheck, score your goals off the cycle, [that] if you watch playoff hockey, that’s how the goals are scored.

"So you’ll see a lot more chipping and chasing, getting in races, strength along the boards, puck battles along the boards, support and that sort of stuff. And maybe not as much tic-tac-toe passing through the center of the ice."

Wait, sorry, that wasn’t Sacco, that was Dale Hunter, head coach of the Washington Capitals, as told by Brooks Laich as recapped by the always awesome Dan Steinberg.

What style was Colorado playing two seasons ago when Sacco was the coach and they made the playoffs and Stastny had an excellent year and Duchene had a terrific rookie season?

by DiD on Dec 12, 2011 1:04 PM MST up reply actions

Craig Anderson is the only reasdon the Avs made the playoffs. Aside from October the Avs played very mediocre for the rest of the year.

by BoxOfChocolates on Dec 12, 2011 6:17 PM MST up reply actions

It sounds like a good plan but we tried i out so far this season, and it´s clearly not working. All i want to say is that Sacco should adjust the playing style to the players out there. Paulie and Dutchy are gifted with the puck, so why chase it?

I´d go with a Duchene-Stastny-Hejduk line as a clear scoring line, not much grit needed here because of pure skill. Let them play a puck possession game with a clear offensive rush based oh speed and fast passes to outwork the opponent. Don´t play them as powerforwards because they aren´t.

Keep the gritty powerforward play for Landeskog-O´Reilly-Jones it´s working for them but don´t force a gameplan on players who clearly have problems with it. You will weaken the players confidence and sooner or later their work ethic.

PS: We have other problems for now then how to win in the playoffs.

by Hazelnut on Dec 13, 2011 1:53 AM MST up reply actions

If you want to play possession hockey in the offensive zone, you have to have the puck in the offensive zone. That means you have to get through the neutral zone with possession. The Avs have repeatedly demonstrated that the trap is extremely effective against them, and that they cannot cross the opponent’s blue line with the puck (and the red line, sometimes). The only option in that case is dump and chase.

Most Western Conference teams have taken the approach of holding the puck deep in their offensive zone so that if the Avs do gain possession, they have the full 200 feet to travel, and the opponent can get their defense and forwards back to protect their blue line. This kills the run and gun style that the Avs were successful with in ‘09-’10. Those days of high-percentage hockey are over. The Avs have to adjust, and so far they have gone to the dump and chase, or they dump it in on goal to get an O-zone face-off.

Duchene is a black hole with the puck. He doesn’t trust his team mates, and doesn’t pass well. He’s not a possession player. Landeskog is already better in this aspect.

OK Shermie, time to be the shepherd

by Busted Twigg on Dec 13, 2011 9:55 AM MST up reply actions

Something needs to be done about Duchene. Playing him with Stastny is okay, but I can’t help but feel as if it’s not the best situation for either of them. I really think that if we could find a wing that Duchene had chemistry with again (Think Flash 2.0) that our team would become instantly much, much better even if we still keep Duchene at the wing (line of Dutch/Stazz/New Guy). Dutchy needs to feel comfortable with his linemates, and clearly he doesn’t right now. And we can’t bank on Mueller either.

I still think we need to make a trade. Ship out one of our young, NHL ready defenseman (like Barrie) for a young, NHL ready winger. I don’t know who, but it needs to happen, and the sooner the better.

Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs.
Varly: you're awesome. We love you. Please don't break.

by andidee15 on Dec 13, 2011 12:36 PM MST up reply actions

this makes me wish Hishon were healthy so much, or even Olver. Duchene showed chemistry with Olver and Hishon seems to be a fast playmaker type that Duchene can play with. I’d like to wait til after this season, when everyone is signed, to trade people. Or maybe ship off someone management won’t resign.

by ProfessorOak on Dec 13, 2011 1:02 PM MST up reply actions

I’m thinking Hishon was drafted to play with Duchene, too. I keep finding myself slipping in and out of that dreaded “Maybe next season…” attitudes. I know it’s early in the season but these Avs are just as fun to watch as they were a couple years ago.

We need some top six wingers and defined role players but what we have is just a group of experiments and seeing who’s gonna step up to be another top sixer and who’s gonna find their game on the third/fourth line. Below is the only part of the top six we’re sure of. Landeskog being a possible third but likely second line guy.

Duchene Hishon
O’Reilly Landeskog

"It's not my fault I never learned to accept responsibility."-Woody Paige

by GeorgeInLimbo on Dec 13, 2011 1:21 PM MST up reply actions

Hishon has never played a single NHL game. How do you put him above Stastny who has a legit track record as a top 6 NHL center (yes, he does). Matter of fact, I have Hishon in the same dark room as Mueller until I see different. I’m also falling out of love with Duchene. He’s tantalized, but not really delivered. The guy is amazing on skates, a great puck handler, weak on defense, and has limited ice vision. His shot is weak, and not exceptionally accurate. I don’t think he’s well placed as a center. His best games this year have come on Stastny’s wing.

OK Shermie, time to be the shepherd

by Busted Twigg on Dec 13, 2011 1:30 PM MST up reply actions

I wouldn’t mind keeping Duchene on the Stastny line, but just as you’re not counting on Mueller coming back, I’m not really banking on Stastny staying with the club for more than two more seasons. The club is known to be shopping him (per Edmonton Journal). It is not a matter of if moreso than a matter of when.

If you like Duchene on the wing, Hishon is a natural center. You may not like that he hasn’t played a NHL game, but certain expectations come from being a first rounder, and he played great for his OHL team. Yeah, the hit was pretty bad, but I highly doubt he has ruined his change at making a significant impact in the NHL as a top-6 guy. There is a reason they chose this kid. They can put Duchene at center if it works better that way.

Duchene is 20 years old. He is 5-8 years from his peak. Maybe his vision develops. Kid needs to stop trying to be a NHL hot shot and start leading his team and winning games. But he’s young.

"It's not my fault I never learned to accept responsibility."-Woody Paige

by GeorgeInLimbo on Dec 13, 2011 2:42 PM MST up reply actions

Dutchy’s D isn’t horrible, it’s just not as good as our other two centers. Fun fact – Duchene is actually in the top 35 in the league in takeaways. That’s only a part of defense, but it’s something to build off. Luckily, like George said, he’s got plenty of time to learn how to play better defense and get better vision. And his vision really isn’t that bad if he has people he has chemistry with. It’s all about the Duchene Winger right now – you know, the one we don’t have or is so concussed he’s not playing right now (there are 3 of them). Once he matures a bit, his winger may not be as important, but Dutchy definitely needs help now.

Watching the game last night, I think he’s starting to develop some chemistry with Stastny. It’s not the instant chemistry he had with Flash or Ferris, but it’s something. Just one more reason we probably shouldn’t move Stazz right now.

Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs.
Varly: you're awesome. We love you. Please don't break.

by andidee15 on Dec 14, 2011 9:25 AM MST up reply actions

Unless it someone that can develop the kind of chemistry he had with flash on at night in, night out basis. IMO

"It's not my fault I never learned to accept responsibility."-Woody Paige

by GeorgeInLimbo on Dec 14, 2011 9:40 AM MST up reply actions

Agreed. That’s about the only person I’d move Stats for.

Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs.
Varly: you're awesome. We love you. Please don't break.

by andidee15 on Dec 14, 2011 10:40 AM MST up reply actions

I think Duchene and Alex Hemsky would be a solid Flash 2.0 scenario…

I don’t know how it gets done, but if everyone here can keep clamoring for Parise, one can dream right?

by quietstorm560 on Dec 14, 2011 1:15 AM MST up reply actions

Damn “x” is right above the “s”…shouldve been Ales…my bad…

by quietstorm560 on Dec 14, 2011 1:17 AM MST up reply actions

Would be worth a try, and it would fit with our trade affection. Another injury prone player with huge upside. High risk, but even higher reward.

He has a good shot, really nice hands and is fast as hell. With a nice pass from the own end he is able to cut through the opposing defence creating space or even score… IF he´s healthy.

Another contra is that he´s not very good in the own end, and his 4.1 million caphit. But i´m sure if he´s used the right way(whitch brings me back to the fire sacco point) he can be a very powerful tool.

by Hazelnut on Dec 14, 2011 7:49 AM MST up reply actions

Might be worth a shot. Since he’s UFA at the end of the season, he could be had (no doubt) for a much more reasonable price at the end of the year – unless he proves in the last 1/2 of this season that he’s worth that much – which would be fine by me.

2011-2012 Lokomotiv Yaroslavl: Vyechnaya Pamyat!
2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: Chances are rapidly diminishing that this will not suck.

by Hopfenkopf on Dec 14, 2011 9:21 AM MST up reply actions

In division though against a team that we’re already going to have fits against in the years to come? I’d love to see him come here via UFA, but a trade with the Oil…. aren’t there enough ex-Avs in our division already?

Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs.
Varly: you're awesome. We love you. Please don't break.

by andidee15 on Dec 14, 2011 9:32 AM MST up reply actions

Maybe the price is low

i would also love to sign him via Free Agency, but we need help now. He has 11 points in 19 games so far, i don´t think we have to give up a Stastny caliber player for him. The Oilers have him on the thrid line for now.

Maybe we don´t have to give up much for him. Give them Kobasew + Barrie for Hemsky. Work in a Condition like the sharks had in the Havlat trade. If he isn´t playing 30 games for the rest of the season due to injury we get an additional 2nd rounder.

by Hazelnut on Dec 15, 2011 2:21 AM MST up reply actions

I would be fine with that trade actually. Having Barrie on their blueline scares me a bit, but I think I’d make that deal. Question is, would they? Barrie is spiffy, but Kobasew is nothing to write home about. I think they’d want more, and we don’t exactly have the draft picks to supplement it.

Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs.
Varly: you're awesome. We love you. Please don't break.

by andidee15 on Dec 15, 2011 9:42 AM MST up reply actions

Barrie is an exciting prospect. Kobasew is a veteran with a reasonable contract. Hemsky could be a UFA after this year. EDM could possibly lose Hemsky with no return at all. Depending upon how contract talks are going, they might be very interested in that offer.

OK Shermie, time to be the shepherd

by Busted Twigg on Dec 15, 2011 9:51 AM MST up reply actions

Fair enough. Either way, I would really like to see us trade somebody for a winger in-season. If we could snatch up one that’s looking to be down and out for fairly cheap, that would be awesome, Hemsky or not.

Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs.
Varly: you're awesome. We love you. Please don't break.

by andidee15 on Dec 15, 2011 10:18 AM MST up reply actions

What about Eller or Kassian? Some big guys that have potential and age on their side. Both out east for teams trying to compete now. Could grow with the club. Brassard, Johanson. Guys like those. Doubt Edmonton would trade a guy like Hemsky within their division (conference).

"It's not my fault I never learned to accept responsibility."-Woody Paige

by GeorgeInLimbo on Dec 15, 2011 12:38 PM MST up reply actions

Answer is always “No” until you ask. They gotta do something to get Dutchy some decent wing help. Don’t want to do anything that could possibly show our face of the franchise that we’re not committed to actually winning games, eventual playoff series’ and such, right?

by quietstorm560 on Dec 15, 2011 11:55 PM MST up reply actions