Tainted Love?
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Mar 18, 2011 10:00 AM MDT
in Avalanche News & Notes
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Buried at the bottom of Wednesday's DP blurb about Adam Foote's pending retirement (not linking because of the ridiculous auto-playing video) was the mention that Joe Sakic would be joining Foote with the Colorado Thunderbirds Under-13 program next year, thought of as a short-time gig before he joins the Avalanche front office.I have to admit, I'm a little conflicted about this.
On one hand, who wouldn't want Super Joe in the Avalanche front office? He's the greatest player in franchise history, a proven winner and an all-around classy guy. Obviously, Joe knows hockey. It's not unheard of for a cornerstone franchise player to move into that team's front office after retirement. Joe Nieuwendyk is currently the GM for the Dallas Stars, a team he won a Conn Smythe trophy for. He replaced Brett Hull, who scored that goal that UZ probably still claims didn't happen. 3 of 5 the players who have had their jerseys retired by the Kings have served in LA's front office: Luc Robitaille, Dave Taylor and Rogie Vachon. Bobby Clarke had a Hall of Fame career in Philadelphia before spending 19 years as the Flyers' GM. Longtime Oiler Kevin Lowe has been in the Edmonton front office for years.
And how many Stanley Cups do those star players have as an executive for those franchises? None. Although there's been some success - Vachon was the GM who acquired Wayne Gretzky from Edmonton, while Clarke's teams went to 3 Cup Finals - the ultimate success has eluded them. Greatness on the ice doesn't always translate to greatness upstairs.
Let's not forget about Rejean Houle. He wasn't exactly a star in Montreal, but he was a former 1st overall pick who won 5 Stanley Cups with the Canadiens. As a GM, he is the guy who traded Patrick Roy to the Avs. But his credentials don't stop there:
Following this trade, he traded away marquee players like Mark Recchi, Vincent Damphousse and Pierre Turgeon for players of little value. He was also criticized for frequently trading with non-contending teams, being unable to sign big name free agents and signing marginal players to inflated contracts. Houle's drafting was considered even worse as he was criticized for taking players like Matt Higgins, Jason Ward, Eric Chouinard and Marcel Hossa, the younger brother of then rising star Marian with his first round selections as well as trading away a top ten pick in the 1999 NHL Entry Draft for an underacheving Trevor Linden
What happens if Joe Sakic is a lousy GM. When Eric Lacroix becomes the next GM of the Avalanche and crashes and burns, no one will have their on-ice memories of him tarnished. If Sakic were to replace him and stink up the joint, would it taint our memory of the great years he gave us on the ice? We here at MHH have no problem making fun of Avalanche front office staff when they make mistakes. But Sakic? Super Joe? Not quite sure I'm ready for that one.
[stick tap to a whole bunch of SBN hockey writers who gave me some great examples of star players who moved to the front office. Also, the person who suggested Garth Snow]
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If Sakic were to replace him and stink up the joint, would it taint our memory of the great years he gave us on the ice?
Not even slightly. Totally different worlds.
I make music. I don't think it's despicable, do you?
Gretzky failed as a coach. But he’s still the Great One.
Same rule applies to Sakic. Although I think I would rather see him coaching than being a desk jockey, I’ll support him either way because, well, he’s Super Joe. It’ll be nice to see him back in the organization in a bigger role than just the object of a locker room shrine.
Jumpin' on the Johnson bandwagon.
Good Goalie. THIS SUMMER. Make it Happen, Sherman!
I had the same thought about Gretzky. Player Gretzky and Coach Gretzky are completely different.
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
by Americanario on Mar 18, 2011 10:43 AM MDT up reply actions
You think the first action of GM Sakic would be to get rid of the creepy thing?
I make music. I don't think it's despicable, do you?
Televised shrine smashing, starring Joe Sakic with a sledgehammer. Post-smashing analysis by Peter McNab
Patrit19: Languishing for Landeskog since 2011
Sunny Side would no doubt think of it as a positive start to the new season.
Jumpin' on the Johnson bandwagon.
Good Goalie. THIS SUMMER. Make it Happen, Sherman!
Andi, please do me a favor.
Do a photochop with a picture of McNab, except replace his eyes with two sunnyside up eggs to reflect his happy go lucky outlook on life and hockey generally – ’k?
2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Hugging the cap floor and waiting on their revenue share, because hey, billionaires need welfare too!
Like that?
The image is a little fuzzy. Google only had 3 photos of good ol’ Sunny Side, all very small. For a broadcast personality, you would think there would be more pictures than that.
Jumpin' on the Johnson bandwagon.
Good Goalie. THIS SUMMER. Make it Happen, Sherman!
That is one of the best, if not THE BEST photochop I’ve ever seen!
2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Hugging the cap floor and waiting on their revenue share, because hey, billionaires need welfare too!
You were waiting to use that line, weren’t you. It’s just a little tooooo appropriate.
by MalachiConstant on Mar 18, 2011 3:29 PM MDT up reply actions
Glad you like it. I’m going to overuse it to death now. Like the tank.
Jumpin' on the Johnson bandwagon.
Good Goalie. THIS SUMMER. Make it Happen, Sherman!
hopefully the tanking will end next season. But Sunny Side will live forever!
Patrit19: Languishing for Landeskog since 2011
Yay!!!!
Ok, I know you guys are probably starting on them up above, but I just want to make sure. I want a list of the BEST McNabisms.
My favorite: Because 30 is different than 20.
Jumpin' on the Johnson bandwagon.
Good Goalie. THIS SUMMER. Make it Happen, Sherman!
BLANK is one of the best, if not THE BEST BLANK in the NHL/World/History of Human Existence…
2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Hugging the cap floor and waiting on their revenue share, because hey, billionaires need welfare too!
“That Kesler, WHAT A PLAYER! And those Sedins, MY GOD THEY’RE GOOD. And that Kyle Wellwood, he’s such a DIFFERENCE MAKER on the ice!
Also works if you insert names of anybody that comes to mind
Patrit19: Languishing for Landeskog since 2011
You know he’s talking about somebody who really fucking sucks if he uses the term “hard worker”.
Add this to the beginning of anything I say above and it will save me lots of time: "At the risk of sounding like an idiot...." Thanks.
But Radar doesn’t suck!
Although yeah, he might be the only exception to that rule.
Jumpin' on the Johnson bandwagon.
Good Goalie. THIS SUMMER. Make it Happen, Sherman!
Plus he talks about Radar’s other qualities. Usually you hear…
“That Darcy tucker brings a wonderful work ethic to this team.”
Which translates in my McNab-Normal dictionary as….
“Why the fuck did we sign this hack? Oh well, I want my paycheck so… That Darcy Tucker brings a wonderful work ethic to this team”
Add this to the beginning of anything I say above and it will save me lots of time: "At the risk of sounding like an idiot...." Thanks.
Great photoshop but, just like some people hate grammar mistakes, I hate rough edges. I hope you don’t have a problem with me making it a bit smoother:
HUNWICK. FINALLY.
Certainly not. How did you do that? I’m still learning photoshop
Jumpin' on the Johnson bandwagon.
Good Goalie. THIS SUMMER. Make it Happen, Sherman!
How's this?
I also noticed that the BG was off center on the one above. I think this one works better.
Jumpin' on the Johnson bandwagon.
Good Goalie. THIS SUMMER. Make it Happen, Sherman!
Hey Andi, if you check this again, I always soften the edges when I select things by using the feathering option on my selections. usually only 1-2 pixels will be enough, but sometimes I get up to 3-4. You can either adjust the ‘Feather’ option before you make the selection, or else, after you already have stuff selected, use the ‘refine edge’ options.
Thanks Joe... Thanks Peter....
I totally disagree about Gretzky. Yes, his on-ice greatness is still remembered and revered, but his failures in Phoenix are remembered right along with them. I think his legacy was, in fact, tarnished by the fact he was very publicly awful at coaching. “Wow, he was such a great player. Too bad he sucked at coaching.” I believe it’s rare that one thought would occur without the other.
I'm Cameron Awesome and I play defense!
Avalanche Breakaway: a blog of hockey goodness
by Cheryl Bradley on Mar 18, 2011 12:43 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Did he suck at coaching? Phoenix then was a no win situation.
Each of my replies is a work of art, each more brilliant than the last.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Mar 18, 2011 1:09 PM MDT up reply actions
It may have been a no-win, but I have a friend who worked for the Yotes while Gretzky was the coach. He’s painted a pretty bad picture of Gretz in that role.
I'm Cameron Awesome and I play defense!
Avalanche Breakaway: a blog of hockey goodness
by Cheryl Bradley on Mar 18, 2011 1:16 PM MDT up reply actions
Same situation that Tippett was in, except Gretzky actually had time in the offseason to prepare; Tippett was thrown into the fire when Gretzky quit the team in late September of 2009.
Gretzky sucked at coaching.
Finally, I wanna thank God, because God gave me this Dundie. And I feel God in this Chili's tonight.
by Dan Winkler on Mar 18, 2011 2:01 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree with you here, although the point is pretty well moot since Joe has said on several occasions that the thing he wants to avoid is all of the crazy travel that kept him away from his wife and kids so many years. He is by no means a coaching candidate – at least until the kids are grown and gone.
2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Hugging the cap floor and waiting on their revenue share, because hey, billionaires need welfare too!
It's pretty much what's going on with the Broncos (John Elway), except Xanders is set up as the fall-guy if/when things go wrong (perhaps Sherman is the patsy in this case).
In the hearts of the hardcore, Super Joe will always be Super Joe, but for the rest of the fans? (That is, casual and bandwagon fans.) Make no mistake: they will throw anyone and everyone under the bus.
They don’t have that same attachment the players we grew up loving – if the end result is negative, they’re fair game.
Heil Panzerfaust! Inb4 the Hishon bandwagon.
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
The Number Zero, eating a live octopus so you don't have to.
by Tempestuous Binary on Mar 18, 2011 10:21 AM MDT reply actions
Also, Denver seems have an abundance of fans that are high on emotion and low on patience.
Heil Panzerfaust! Inb4 the Hishon bandwagon.
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
The Number Zero, eating a live octopus so you don't have to.
by Tempestuous Binary on Mar 18, 2011 10:23 AM MDT up reply actions
Well, we aren’t exactly an old-school hockey state. Hockey isn’t a game most Coloradans were raised in (you’re talking to one). The large following of dihard fans will come after a few more years and a few more Stanley Cups.
Jumpin' on the Johnson bandwagon.
Good Goalie. THIS SUMMER. Make it Happen, Sherman!
I think he means in General. Broncos fans are like that. Rockies fans are usually long-suffering, tho.
Thanks Joe... Thanks Peter....
Elway
Takes a job in Broncos front office and the NFL goes to a lockout. Fail.
Jonas Holøs- Putting the Ø in defense since 2010!
by niwotsblessing on Mar 18, 2011 1:55 PM MDT up reply actions
If you have faith in Sakic as a player, that should carry over to him as a GM or in the front office.
I think he’d be a great presence and a great manager in whatever capacity.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
Sakic in the front office? yes
As the GM? in time…
Sakic’s presence will do more for the team than what most will expect. It is a rebuilding franchise that could use a big name in the front office. Just look at what Yzerman brought to Tampa? Who wouldn’t feel honored to have Sakic or Yzerman call them asking them to be a part of their team? That will help a lot with UFAs (NHL, AHL, College, etc)
Languishing for Landeskog
Call me crazy, but....
Even if Super Joe becomes a GM option, I think we should stick with Sherman, at least for a while. He’s actually done a pretty good job this year with what he has to work with, and I think he could be really great if / when KSE decides to let him use the checkbook.
Question: What does a franchise president do?
Jumpin' on the Johnson bandwagon.
Good Goalie. THIS SUMMER. Make it Happen, Sherman!
collect a paycheck, look over GM’s shoulder, crossword puzzles.
Each of my replies is a work of art, each more brilliant than the last.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Mar 18, 2011 11:12 AM MDT up reply actions
Hm. So couldn’t we use Super Joe as our President? Get the name and the presence and keep Sherman around. Win win, right?
Jumpin' on the Johnson bandwagon.
Good Goalie. THIS SUMMER. Make it Happen, Sherman!
You think Lacroix is going to quit or be fired? I think Enos gives him a budget # at the beginning of the year and that’s the last time they talk all year. I would be willing to wager that Lacroix intimates the heck out of the kronkes and they want no part of running the team.
Each of my replies is a work of art, each more brilliant than the last.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Mar 18, 2011 12:35 PM MDT up reply actions
I don’t think Mr. Stan Kroenke or Mr. Josh Kroenke are intimidated by anyone.
Mr. Stan Kroenke is winning his battle for control of Arsenal against a very scary Russian-type guy. He also took on the NFL’s rule against owning multiple sports franchises in different cities, and won without breaking a sweat.
Mr. Josh Kroenke won the Melodrama very handily, staring down experienced NBA personnel, a shady Russian billionaire, most of the NBA media, Carmelo Anthony, and Carmelo Anthony’s sychophants.
I agree they don’t want very much to do with running the team, but I don’t think it’s because they’re intimidated by Lacroix.
Finally, I wanna thank God, because God gave me this Dundie. And I feel God in this Chili's tonight.
by Dan Winkler on Mar 18, 2011 2:09 PM MDT up reply actions
sorry, not intimidated meaning scared, but intimidated meaning ignorant. I see how I worded that wrong.
Each of my replies is a work of art, each more brilliant than the last.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Mar 18, 2011 2:13 PM MDT up reply actions
I do think that there’s an excellent opportunity here though if SuperJoe is interested. He could take something like an apprenticeship with PL for two years or so and let PL retire thereafter (dude is getting kinda old). La Familie Kroenke gives Joe a budget and stays the hell out of the way. With Billington heading up scouting and Sherman making sure that the balance sheet foots, I’m cool with that – so long as they hire somebody Ted Nolan, who can coach for shit.
2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Hugging the cap floor and waiting on their revenue share, because hey, billionaires need welfare too!
Hmm, my little “cough” indicators went away. Oh well.
2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Hugging the cap floor and waiting on their revenue share, because hey, billionaires need welfare too!
somehow I managed to get the jist of what you said.
Each of my replies is a work of art, each more brilliant than the last.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Mar 18, 2011 3:07 PM MDT up reply actions
See, I took you literally with “intimates” and thought you meant PL pulls the old sweet nothings in Enos’ ear, reassuring the robber baron that all is well.
by MalachiConstant on Mar 18, 2011 2:41 PM MDT up reply actions
that would mean this team is more fucked up than we thought.
Each of my replies is a work of art, each more brilliant than the last.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Mar 18, 2011 3:08 PM MDT up reply actions
Yes, it would mean PL has lost his marbles. Either that or he is a super genius beyond our comprehension.
by MalachiConstant on Mar 18, 2011 3:17 PM MDT up reply actions
One truly is, the other just seems shady.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100521&sportCat=nba
Finally, I wanna thank God, because God gave me this Dundie. And I feel God in this Chili's tonight.
by Dan Winkler on Mar 18, 2011 4:07 PM MDT up reply actions
He also took on the NFL’s rule against owning multiple sports franchises in different cities, and won without breaking a sweat.
My impression was that it was more of a tie with him having to sell to Josh. But I certainly agree that they aren’t going to be intimidated
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
The one thing you could count on
Would be his desire to win. Unfortunately as Avs fans our hands are tied a bit and there’s no one in ownership or management we can look at and say “That man would do anything to bring us another Stanley Cup”. Not even Lacroix, who most of us would have said this about at earlier points in his career… but he now seems very comfortable and satisfied with past accomplishments and is more interested in using his position to take care of friends and family than building a competing hockey team.
That’s not to say Sakic would be an excellent GM. But when the organization would rather look at the manager of the arena gift shop before searching the rank and file of hockey minds out there when filling a vacant GM post, Sakic is not a poor alternative.
you have to like organizations that reward internally…
how often have you wanted that cool new position only to see someone outside the company fill it?
I’ve been part of organizations that are very picky who they bring in and love to develop and promote internally. One such example was an associate of mine who started as an usher and is now an executive for this multi multi million dollar company after a few years of hard work and learning
Languishing for Landeskog
I just worry that the GM that has the passion to “do anything to bring us a Stanley Cup” might be letting that burning fire obscure his rational judgement of the team, prospects, and worth of it all. Having fire isn’t enough, is all I am saying. A lot of teams questing for the Cup have blown themselves out and too early because they allowed themselves to be blinded to the facts.
Finding the ‘right’ candidate will take time. And perhaps a look around outside the orgaization?
Thanks Joe... Thanks Peter....
It means he turned me into a newt – BURN HIM!
2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Hugging the cap floor and waiting on their revenue share, because hey, billionaires need welfare too!
Well, I got better.
2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Hugging the cap floor and waiting on their revenue share, because hey, billionaires need welfare too!
I can grab a duck if you have a scale. Glad to hear you got better.
Each of my replies is a work of art, each more brilliant than the last.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Mar 18, 2011 3:09 PM MDT up reply actions
Imperial or metric?
Thanks.
2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Hugging the cap floor and waiting on their revenue share, because hey, billionaires need welfare too!
I don’t know.
Whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Each of my replies is a work of art, each more brilliant than the last.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Mar 18, 2011 3:55 PM MDT up reply actions
Can the Avs move Sakic’s shrine out of the locker room?
Imagine being a player right now, going through this crappy losing streak, and you have to look at that shrine every home game.
Move it out into the Arena were the fans can enjoy it…
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
great idea
I am the most humble blogger of all time
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Mar 18, 2011 11:32 AM MDT up reply actions
I loved the idea, and still do. I just don’t think locker room is the correct place for it.
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
by Americanario on Mar 18, 2011 12:27 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree DDC
Big moves in the front office — even if it’s not a scary option like Sakic for GM — are not a good idea. I think our front office and scouting are doing a pretty good job at least. The ownership/coaching should be looked at FAR more than the GM or anything in that area.
"I’m predicting 50pts in the NHL for Hensick next season. Anyone want to put $20 on it?" - DetAvs, Jun 18, 2010 3:45 AM EDT
IF Sakic comes in to help out, I just want to be sure that he’s not handed the keys to the kingdom immediately. Let him intern there for a good while, get a feel for the front office, and glean its general workings from the people that have been doing it for a long time.
Thanks Joe... Thanks Peter....
Sakic wouldn’t do that. From all that he’s said (which, granted, isn’t much cuz, you know, he’s still Joe Sakic) he’s made it clear he wants to learn the ropes first before making any big moves or taking a substantial role.
I'm Cameron Awesome and I play defense!
Avalanche Breakaway: a blog of hockey goodness
by Cheryl Bradley on Mar 18, 2011 12:47 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree, I would only change the coaching staff, if just to remove the stench of failure from this year, everything else seems to be working (a higher operating budget would be nice, but I’m not going to hold my breath).
Each of my replies is a work of art, each more brilliant than the last.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Mar 18, 2011 12:37 PM MDT up reply actions
The ownership/coaching should be looked at FAR more than the GM or anything in that area,
I’m on the fence with sacco. I think he should be allowed to stay next year, but on a very short leash. Ownership, on the other hand, is pathetic. And everyone below the ownership level is playing with the hand that has been dealt to them by said ownership. Until the cheapskate train quits a rollin’ around Avaland, there isn’t too much blame that can be placed anywhere other than squarely at cheap ass ownership.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
Maybe I'm just new. . .
Or ignorant, but why is Hejduk’s name on the Sakic jersey in the picture? Looks tacky.
Wait, they play hockey in Idaho?
It was for Sakic’s jersey retirement ceremony, all of the avs players wore these jerseys in the warmup/ pre game
Patrit19: Languishing for Landeskog since 2011
also, the equipment guy had a concussion
I am the most humble blogger of all time
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Mar 18, 2011 12:12 PM MDT up reply actions
Am I the only one who doesn’t think Sakic would make a good GM?
I'm Cameron Awesome and I play defense!
Avalanche Breakaway: a blog of hockey goodness
by Cheryl Bradley on Mar 18, 2011 12:48 PM MDT reply actions
right now? or in the future?
I honestly have no idea how he’d do. But I don’t think he should just be handed the keys. Like he himself has said, he needs to learn the ropes first.
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
by Americanario on Mar 18, 2011 12:49 PM MDT up reply actions
No, he will, unfortunately it will probably be for another team.
Each of my replies is a work of art, each more brilliant than the last.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Mar 18, 2011 1:09 PM MDT up reply actions
Yzerman style, honestly he may use that as a road map. Please don’t go to a crappy franchise Joe!
I make music. I don't think it's despicable, do you?
As important as Beachie’s questions, should I keep the Dr. Doom giving kids icecream cones or go back to my old picture, it’s keeping me up at night, these questions….
Each of my replies is a work of art, each more brilliant than the last.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Mar 18, 2011 2:19 PM MDT reply actions
What’s the old pic? It’s gotta be good to top Dr. Doom giving kids ice cream cones.
Finally, I wanna thank God, because God gave me this Dundie. And I feel God in this Chili's tonight.
by Dan Winkler on Mar 18, 2011 2:20 PM MDT reply actions
cough…old colorado rockies logo, then I had deadpool, then the fonze.
Each of my replies is a work of art, each more brilliant than the last.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Mar 18, 2011 3:09 PM MDT up reply actions
Unless you have a painting of deadpool and dr. doom handing out ice cream to children, then stick with dr. doom.
by MalachiConstant on Mar 18, 2011 3:19 PM MDT up reply actions
One name stands out with his “rookie GM season” still underway: Steve Yzerman. For Tampa he’s made some stellar moves. Still early, but if one number 19 can do it, Super Joe can too!
by quietstorm560 on Mar 18, 2011 10:27 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
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