Guess we know why Kroenke's been a cheapskate
Kroenke takes a controlling interest in Arsenal FC
about 1 year ago
Nemesis44UK
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come on now… Kroenke has yet to show he is a cheapskate. Did he trade Stewart for a bag of pucks? Hannan? You don’t trade for EJ if you are going to be a cheapskate. Kroenke is one of the richest sports owners in the world who already owned part of the team. He just wants to have controlling interest.
As I mentioned in another post, the Avs are better off being at the cap floor until the new CBA. IF the CBA drops by 20%, the ceiling just dropped to around 48 million. Sitting at 43 million would put the Avs only 5 million from the cap ceiling. There will be a drop in the new CBA… it is just unknown how much and the Avs are playing this very smart.
Languishing for Landeskog
come on now… Kroenke has yet to show he is a cheapskate.
Yes, yes he has.
Also, the Ian Laperriere & Andrew Brunette contract offers.
The Hannan-Fleishmann trade was a net salary gain for the Avs. (So was the Ryan Smyth trade.)
Also, the EJ-Stewart/Shatty trade was also a net salary plus for the Avs.
There will be a drop in the new CBA… it is just unknown how much and the Avs are playing this very smart.
I very much doubt this. I’d wager against it. The Cap is tied to revenues, and it has gone up every year since the lockout. There is absolutely no way the players, under the leadership of Donald Fehr, accept a salary cap drop… especially a 20% one. You’re mad, mad I tell ya, if you think that’s going to happen.
Avalanche Shutouts are a powerful Aphrodisiac
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Apr 11, 2011 9:14 AM MDT up reply actions
well we are probably looking at another lock out if the player’s amount of revenue doesn’t drop. There probably won’t be a 20% drop but if there was… the Avs would be one of a few teams in an ok situation. Realistically there is a 10% drop for the ceiling and the difference between the ceiling and floor will widen.
Languishing for Landeskog
well we are probably looking at another lock out if the player’s amount of revenue doesn’t drop
I don’t think the NHL or Players want that to happen, it would be suicide. There will not be a lockout, I’d almost bet money on it.
The owners are in a very precarious position: They got what they wanted last session, now if they come back and say “oh, it’s still bad” they have no case. None. And NHL owners aren’t in the position NFL owners are in where they get a years worth of TV contracts even if they lockout. And the NHL is still crippled form the last lockout, NHL owners will never let a lockout/strike happen on this contract. They have waaay to much to lose this time around.
There won’t be a lockout, and there won’t be a cap max drop. I would bet a lot of money on it.
Avalanche Shutouts are a powerful Aphrodisiac
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Apr 11, 2011 9:48 AM MDT up reply actions
I agree, it would be bad for both sides. But that just means one or both sides will cave early and they’ll come to an agreement. However, it doesn’t tell anything about what the agreement may be.
The players aren’t giving up that salary cap limit. Period. End of story. The owners don’t have the leverage to force the issue. They a very veryveryslim chance they could talk the players into 1-2%, but would have to give up something fairly substantial in return, and I have no idea what they could give up in return.
Bottom line: It’s not happening. Neither a lockout nor a drop in salary cap
Avalanche Shutouts are a powerful Aphrodisiac
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Apr 11, 2011 11:04 AM MDT up reply actions
The return would come in the form of lowered escrow money.
How about those grades? Well, there's an A in alcohol, a B in beer. C is for Miss Carter, who we love so dear. D is for drunk, and there ain't no E, so F's for Forever Clear.
Ok, then a 1-2% drop might happen, good point. I still don’t think it will.
Avalanche Shutouts are a powerful Aphrodisiac
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Apr 11, 2011 3:50 PM MDT up reply actions
as for the players…
-the Lappy situation (and to a lesser degree the Hendricks one) wasn’t great
-The Avs were going in another direction/style when they let Brunette go
-Same holds true with Hannan as he brought back a player the Avs really liked.
-The Smyth trade was the only clear cut cost cutting move as payroll was really high and Smyth was an aging overpaid winger. I loved Smyth but don’t you think LA would want to move him now too due to his large cap hit and declining play?
-Can’t really use the EJ/Stewart trade as the Avs being a cheapskate. They went for players they wanted. If they had “tossed” in a high salary with the trade then sure it could have been but that trade was a straight hockey trade.
Languishing for Landeskog
-Same holds true with Hannan as he brought back a player the Avs really liked.
That they may not even re-sign (and have given no indication they would re-sign).
-Can’t really use the EJ/Stewart trade as the Avs being a cheapskate. They went for players they wanted. If they had "tossed" in a high salary with the trade then sure it could have been but that trade was a straight hockey trade.
I agree with this, but you were the one who brought it up. The fact is: every move the Avs have made have had the benefit of cutting costs. Also, there have been quite a few people laid off over at Kroenke sports. Plus both reporters that follow the Avs (Dater and Frei) have reported that the Avs have been in cost cutting mode. Also, Forbes Magazine has said as much as well.
The biggest unrestricted free agent contract they have signed in 2 offseasons has been Craig Anderson: for $1.8M.
I think you’re being way to rah-rah here. the Avs are clearly in cost-cutting mode
Avalanche Shutouts are a powerful Aphrodisiac
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Apr 11, 2011 9:53 AM MDT up reply actions
they were cost cutting due to a very large payroll and going into a rebuild. There really hasn’t been too many UFA’s that would have worked out for the Avs without overpaying. If the Avs were cost cutting, would they have offered the rumored 7.5 million $$ contract to Anderson? The majority of their moves had been solid rebuilding and cost conscious moves that most GMs should be doing. The Avs tried the throw money around approach for a few years and the team was mediocre at best now they are going through a proper rebuild. I’m giving it a few more summers before I start raising the torchs at the arena.
as for Flash, of course they haven’t re-signed him. He’s still recovering and the Avs need to see what should be expected of him before any realistic offer can be made. How long did it take Mueller to get resigned? There is a good chance he is with another team next year but that could be more to do with him getting to UFA before anyone has a really good feel on his situation and teams throwing crazy money at him. If your career could be in jeopardy, you take the big $$ while you can because it may not be there later.
Languishing for Landeskog
I think that most of us knew they were dangerously thin in two areas last offseason: Wing and defensive defensemen. And there were plenty of defensive defensemen, and a few wings, out there that could have helped alleviate those concerns immensely via free agency. The fact that they sat on their hands during the offseason led to:
1. The late season collapse after injuries ravaged the team.
2. The desperation trades of Hannan, Andy, and then Stewie and Shattenkirk. The last trade was especially bothersome against their “building from within” mantra. Basically, they filled one glaring need, a shutdown D-man, by creating another gaping hole, a true scoring power forward. Had they addressed needs in the offseason, they wouldn’t have had to do this.
The other thing that I don’t think gets mentioned enough is that I don’t think teaching young studs how to lose, and lose big, is good for anyone. All of this “bad taste in our mouths” talk is fine, but bottom line, they are establishing a losing culture, ala NY Islanders, Atlanta, Columbus, etc. Even guys like Rick Nash can’t get a franchise out of this, what makes us think that Duchene can?
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Apr 11, 2011 10:17 AM MDT up reply actions
not having looked at all the transactions last summer but didn’t all or a majority of the top Ds end up going with top teams or at the very least Stanley Cup contenders? As for wingers… there were not too many quality wingers available but plenty of bottom 6 wingers. Chicago had to pay premium $$ to bring in top players during their rebuild and even they didn’t work out perfectly. It is easy to say they “should have” rather than looking at if they “could have”.
As for the trades… Stewart was my favorite Av and it sucked that they traded him but it brought back EJ (a #1 overall pick). Moving Shatty too sucked but the Avs traded from a position of strength. Both Hannan and Anderson were not going to be resigned. Would it be better to trade for something to see how that player may work out or to just wait it out and let them walk? Sure both trades technically didn’t work out (the Avs did end up with a higher pick) but look at Dallas who may lose Richards for nothing… or last year when the Avs held onto some upcoming UFAs. None of those trades were made out of desperation.
Then again that is just my opinion and both Jibble and you have a different look on the situation.
Languishing for Landeskog
not having looked at all the transactions last summer but didn’t all or a majority of the top Ds end up going with top teams or at the very least Stanley Cup contenders?
they went to teams who actually made them contract offers, that’s for certain. And it’s not like the Avs weren’t a desirable location after last season, they were a young up-and-coming team.
I’m with BiB on the desperation trade, but not the last one, the first one. Had Avs management taken care of business in the offseason, and signed a LW, the Avs wouldn’t have had to trade Hannan away, even if it was for Fleishmann.
Avalanche Shutouts are a powerful Aphrodisiac
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Apr 11, 2011 11:02 AM MDT up reply actions
But they might anyway, as he was a UFA. At least they got Flash. Anderson for Colander, it still astounds me that they couldn’t get anything better.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
Yeah, they may have traded Hannan anyways, but if Quincey goes down and they still had Hannan on the roster and still competing for a playoff birth? I bet they wouldn’t have (and if they would have I bet it would have been later, and for a player under contract next season)
Avalanche Shutouts are a powerful Aphrodisiac
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Apr 11, 2011 11:07 AM MDT up reply actions
Or maybe for another defenseman under contract instead of a stop gap. I agree. I think maybe if it were reworded to "Had Avs management taken care of business in the offseason, and signed a LW some depth, the Avs wouldn’t have had to trade Hannan away could have done what they saw fit with Hannan, including trading him for players, picks, or even keeping him around, without sending the team on the tank parade.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
Yup, we should have run out and thrown $17 mil at Kovie. /sarcasm
The only reason people are blaming management is because they did not accurately prognosticate 470+ man games lost to injury. If this, if that, maybe this, maybe that- whatever.
Who are we picking in the first round? Who will be the surprise goalie we obtain in the off-season? Why am I asking all these rhetorical questions?
Jonas Holøs- Putting the Ø in defense since 2010!
by niwotsblessing on Apr 11, 2011 2:01 PM MDT up reply actions
For the record, Kovie’s cap hit is less than Stastny’s. Which is very reasonable given his talent. But yeah, no way the Avs could have afforded him.
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Apr 11, 2011 2:21 PM MDT up reply actions
I would have at least like to have seen the Avs make a move on… someone
Avalanche Shutouts are a powerful Aphrodisiac
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Apr 11, 2011 3:25 PM MDT up reply actions
Did I say Kovie? No, I said depth. And any management team that doesn’t anticipate injuries is retarded. They thought they had enough depth ready in the system to adequately compete this season. They were wrong.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
how much depth can you add...
when you go into the season with TJ-Stastny-Stewart, Mueller-Duchene-Hejduk, Jones-Radar-Yip as your potential top 9? not too many quality players want to come into a situation to play bottom 6 minutes. Same goes on D where the Avs had Hannan, Liles, Foote, Cumiskey, Quincey, Wilson, with Holos/Shattenkirk/Cohen/Gaunce as call-ups. Sure the D looked less than great but they had a ton of options to look at. This team was young and developing and most quality NHLers don’t want to play bottom pairing/4th line minutes.
Languishing for Landeskog
The options were discussed here ad nauseum during the summer. Suffice it to say that the Avs thought they had NHL caliber depth, and were wrong. Injuries are certainly culpable, but not to the extent that everyone wants to make them.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
Sorry, but if you’re a hockey front office professional and you’re counting on guys like Foote & Cumiskey with their age/injury history/size getting you through the season (especially in the West) and your counterpoint to that is that you’re going to call up guys that are all playing their very first professional North American hockey, well, then you’re just lying, cheap, dumb or some combination of the above.
As much as doc & I may have loved Gali & Yip, all of us could see that those guys were only guest appearances on the top 6 (one could cogently argue the top 9). If you’re banking on them as well as Mueller and his recently skullfrakked self (fuck you, Rob Blake!), then well, see above.
2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Hugging the cap floor and waiting on their revenue share, because hey, billionaires need welfare too!
btw, i officially owe you that beer, eh. any thoughts on when/where for the exchange? hard to make you denverites come up to FC…
"I’m predicting 50pts in the NHL for Hensick next season. Anyone want to put $20 on it?" - DetAvs, Jun 18, 2010 3:45 AM EDT
I know that you’re good for it. Drop me an email if you want, but I’m completely up to my eyeballs until probably late May / early June.
I know that you’ve got a baby on the way.
Let’s take it as it comes. Even if it waits until next season, we’ll get it figured out.
2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Hugging the cap floor and waiting on their revenue share, because hey, billionaires need welfare too!
TJ was never a top line LW going forward, and Mueller & Jones were an injury risk, always. You add at least 1 potential top 6er to that and you make it work. As Dan says, the 4th line almost never sees time anyways, so there’s ice time there for everyone.
Avalanche Shutouts are a powerful Aphrodisiac
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Apr 11, 2011 8:46 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree, it’s the right strategy for now. After the new CBA, we may be one of the few teams spending.
Also, it’s not exactly a solid strategy to spend when you’re rebuilding. I highly doubt this is Kroenke’s game plan, it’s Avs’s management, Kroenke let’s the hockey minds run this team, and that’s what I like about him.
It’s also not a solid strategy to suck so bad no one comes to the games, thus depriving you of your sole sources of income to pay for any kind of rebuild. I think it’s a trade off of sucking enough to get quality picks to help your rebuild (“saving” money), without driving away your fanbase (“losing” money). Unless you are the Detroit Fucktards, who seem to not ever have to rebuild. (I blame Satan). I guess Greg from accounting was brought in to help crunch these trade off numbers.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
Actually, I think that’s a great strategy. Fans have extremely short memories and they’ll all be back once they start winning again. This year it worked perfectly, they played great in the beginning and sucked at the end. However, they sold more tickets in the later part of the year.
If you can pull it off it’s great. Not so sure certain other franchises have had any luck with that. (Phoenix, Atlanta, just to name the most recent). Quebec also comes to mind, and I don’t want to feel their pain if we build a cup winner only to see it win the cup in Kansas City (although it would probably cause much mirth in Quebec).
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
Yeah but these sort of teams were never able to switch gears and move forward with the next stages of the rebuild. I believe we will be successful in this area because that’s what PL did do with Quebec. He was handed a team that did most of the rebuild already and he shifted them into the next stages.
Bruce Springsteen once said:
“Blind faith in your leaders, or anything, will get you killed”
I would just love to know what your definition of a rebuild is. Are you sure that your real name is not Kroenke, Josh?
Farewell Peter.
A resounding...Yup!
I’ve been pissed at KSE all season for the lack of spending, reading the article only asserts that Enos has more money than the almighty. The debt from purchasing the remaining shares of the Arsenal is more than the value of the entire Avalanche organization. 17 milion is a drop in the bucket for this guy, he’s a businessman and as long as the Pepsi/Avalanche/Nuggets toy isn’t throwing him 100 million dollar losses, he’s not gonna go against his brain trust. Enos let’s PL and the boys run the team, for whatever reason, they didn’t buy anything. Maybe they are playing it conservatively until the CBA, trying to keep a core of players together regardless of the agreement outcome. The last CBA saw the downward spiral of a once great team, avoiding that could be top priority. I’m actually glad that KSE owns the Avs right now, no matter what ventures Josh and Enos are doing outside of hockey, barring some slimy legal loophole the Avs are safely (and financially) tucked away in Denver for at least 14 more years.
have you read the recent article from Kroenke’s son about where they are going with the Avs? Doesn’t sound like they are penny pinching to be penny pinching
Languishing for Landeskog
Linky?
2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Hugging the cap floor and waiting on their revenue share, because hey, billionaires need welfare too!
This one maybe?
http://www.denverpost.com/krieger/ci_17816544
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
Nothing to get too excited about really. Maybe even the opposite. “Yes, we know the Avs still exist. But nothing to see here. We’ll stay the course. Building from within. Blah blah blah.”
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Apr 11, 2011 5:54 PM MDT up reply actions
Well, at least he knows the Avs still exist. I was wondering that for a while.
I’m happy to see that he’s going to sit down with the management and talk about the holes on the roster. Just hearing (seeing?) him say that makes me think that there is hope for this summer, at least in the goalie category.
I hope he does more interviews throughout the summer. If he wants us to know that he still cares about the team, keep giving us quotes and backing them up with action! I for one am still willing to give him a chance as long has he shows this team a little TLC over the next 6 months.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who <3s the Avs.
See, they hid it. In the pile of steaming, rotten, half-digested tripe that is anything proceeding from one Krieger, Dave.
2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Hugging the cap floor and waiting on their revenue share, because hey, billionaires need welfare too!
I actually like Krieger. I think he is the best columnist the Post has. I wish he did more pieces on the Avs and hockey.
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Apr 12, 2011 11:23 AM MDT up reply actions
Yes Kroenke has been cheap, the evidence is everywhere. CBA or no, going a whole off season without signing any free agents is a joke, if you’re worried about the CBA then offer a 2-year deal. Plenty of those were signed last summer
Thanks Footer
by Cole D Hamilton on Apr 11, 2011 6:21 PM MDT reply actions
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