Law of Averages
So, we're six seasons removed from the NHL Lockout. In that time the Avs have swung from perennial playoff contender to consistent bottom-feeder. Is the next swing of the pendulum taking Colorado up? Have we had it bad enough for long enough that we're due? I wanted to look at the team's approach to team building since the lockout and see if they're performing at a level that would indicate positive growth, mediocrity, or backwards-thinking. I looked at free agency signings, impact trades and high-probability draft picks (1st and 2nd round) to see if the Avalanche faithful are due for some good news based solely on the law of averages. This isn't a scientific pursuit by any stretch, just my thoughts encapsulating the various moves by those in charge when it comes to team building.
'05-06: Coming out of that lost '04-05 season, the Avs had ZERO first round picks and four 2nd round picks (Ryan Stoa, Paul Stastny, Tom Fritsche, and Chris Durand). They appear to be batting about .250 for that draft class. We can give a little nod to Stoa if you really want to and call it .375 if semantics are important to you. That summer saw the departure of Peter Forsberg and Adam Foote due to salary cap reasons and Paul Kariya and Teemu Selanne due to performance reasons. The two cornerstones + friends were replaced with Andrew Brunette, Pierre Turgeon, Patrice Brisebois and Curtis Leschyshyn. Ohh, and Brad May for obvious reasons. Let's call that 2-for-5. An early season trade sent Phillipe Sauve to Calgary for a bag of pucks. We'll call that win-win and not count against my arbitrary tally. Fans did see management swing for the fences with another goaltender trade (trying to replicated the Roy trade with a Jose Theodore for David Aebischer deal). Despite little regular season play from Theodore, they still finished the '05-06 season with 95 points and were second in the division. They were eventually swept by the Disney Ducks in the 2nd round. No other trades except 18 games out of Jim Dowd for a pick. I'm gonna call it 0-2 in the trade department.
'06-07: Draft Day 2006 saw Chris Stewart, Nigel Williams, and Cody Burki at the top of the Avs' board. We'll declare that a .333 average. Free agency saw some budget conscious signings like THE infamous Tyler Arnason, Ken Klee, and Ben Guite. No real (positive) impact players in that group. A trade of Alex Tanguay to Calgary for Jordan Leopold was also a feature of Draft Day. Free agency saw Rob Blake and Dan Hinote depart for greener pastures. Another 95 point season was had, but parity (and a dagger from Forsberg and the Predators) kept them out of the postseason. Even trade deadline deals that essentially swapped Brad May for Scott Parker didn't help. I'd be willing to go 1-for-3 on the signings (half for the brief flash of Good Arnason and Guite), but the Tangs trade was a flop and Parker didn't contribute much. Also, they were now beginning to see the reality of being 1-out-of-2 on the trade-for-a-franchise-goalie front after a terrible season from Jose.
'07-08: The 2007 version of the Entry Draft welcomed Kevin Shattenkirk, Colby Cohen, Trevor Cann, and T.J. Galiardi to the Colorado fold. It's just a tad too early to call this one completely, but I'm pretty confident that a .500 average AT BEST will be the end result. That summer saw the Avs open the checkbook for Scott Hannan and Ryan Smyth as Brisebois and McLean left for other teams. Regardless of personal opinions, I think both guys worked out to a degree. Hannan was Hannan, though over-paid, and Smyth did everything possible while being mis-used and he flirted with 60 points in his healthy seasons. The issue with both of those guys is how they left the team. Smyth was traded in 2009 to the Kings for a pedigreed prospect in Kyle Quincey who has been inconsistent in his time with the club and Tom Preissing who was obtained for what amounted to salary floor reasons. Hannan departed this past season for Tomas Fleischmann who was lights-out until injured after 22 games. Not his fault, but the return on a large cash commitment like he had seen in Denver felt paltry. I'd say .667 on those signings as they worked to a degree in the short term, but fizzled at their terminations. Two or three other significant moves by management in that season saw the return of Peter Forsberg (via LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATE free agency) and Adam Foote via trade at the deadline. Another deadline acquisition was Ruslan Salei. These pickups helped the Avs reach the second round of the playoffs where the injury-depleted team was swept by the eventual champs, Detroit. It's hard to rate that deadline period because while the moves paid immediate dividends, they may have helped lead to the long-term issues that cropped up the next season. Let's be fair and say all three moves were nominal winners at 2.5-out-of-3.
'08-09: The 2008 draft saw Cameron Gaunce and Peter Delmas don the burgundy and blue, both in the second round as the first round pick was Columbus' in the Foote deal. (Let's just call it like it is, that was overpayment then and it looks like almost radical overpayment now). As for the draft itself, it's too early to call, but I doubt we see a better than .500 return given Colorado's history of developing goaltenders. Free agency that season was AWESOME you guys. Daniel Tjarnqvist, Darcy Tucker and Andrew Raycroft stepped into the voids left by the departing Andrew Brunette, Kurt Sauer, and Jeff Finger. The 2008 season never happened for some reason. Somehow during that time they dealt Leopold back to Calgary for Ryan Wilson, Lawrence Nicholat and a 2nd round pick. But if that season had existed, it was 1-for-1 on trades (that's a good return for Leopold at that point in his career, especially when you see the 2nd round picks in 2009) and 0-3 on the FA signings, IMO.
'09-10: 2009 Draft Day began with the 3rd overall pick of Avalanche superfan Matt Duchene followed by the second round picks of Ryan O'Reilly and Stefan Elliott. It's still early, but I think we can put this draft down in the win column, 2.5-3. 2009 free agency saw the departure of fan favorites Guite, Ian Laparriere, Cody McCormick, Raycroft and Tyler Arnason (favorites for very different reasons). In return, frugal pickups like Philippe Dupuis, David Koci, and Craig Anderson were the order of the day. Another tough FA class to judge, but I think I'm leaning toward wins for two-out-of-three of those guys. The other signings that day were depth/AHL at best and won't factor into my thoughts (Hi Mr. Haydar!). Super Captain Joe Sakic hung them up at the beginning of the season however the campaign wasn't the failure many feared. Remember, this was the season that started with the aforementioned Smyth trade to the Kings. After trading 50-point winger Wojtek Wolski to the Coyotes for under-performing Peter Mueller and Kevin Porter, the Avs didn't miss a beat. I'd rate that trade as a win (even with Mueller's Jello-brain) given Wolski's continued floating in various NHL locales and Mueller's insta-chemistry with Duchene. The Smyth trade looks like it'll likely go down in the loss column unfortunately. The 95-point campaign saw the Avalanche surprise many pundits by squeeking into the playoffs after a torrid start to the season. They gave the Sharks a scare by forcing the first round to six games but ultimately fell to the Left Coast Choke Artists.
'10-11: 2010 Draft Day rewarded Avalanche faithful with Joey Hishon falling into the Avalanche's lap at the 17th pick and goalie Calvin Pickard helping round out a solid non-lottery selection. Too early to tell on this iteration of the draft but both picks look solid. Free agency was quiet with Salei, Brett Clark, and Brian Willsie departing and the Avs mostly taking care of their own with the re-signing of Stewert, Yip, and Mueller. They did trade for Daniel Winnik from Phoenix and I'd rate that win for what it is. The 2010-12 season ended up being a tale of two seasons: lots of promise early and holy shit disappointment late. A small move early in the season saw Ryan O'Byrne join the franchise and an even smaller move saw Matt Hunwick join the roster as a harbinger of the Hannan trade discussed above. On the fans' seismometer, the big move during the season was the Chris Stewert/Kevin Shattenkirk trade to St. Louis for Eric Johnson and Jay McLement + a first round pick. That shocking blockbuster is closely followed by the deal that sent Anderson to Ottawa for Brian Elliott and a lottery pick and Hannan to Washington for Fleischmann. O'byrne has the feel of a win while Hunwick is .... I'm not really sure. I wanna say loss, but a little more time may tell a different story. We'll go with loss for now. I'm still in the waiting period on the Stewert trade, but the Anderson deal was a hands-down loss. The net effect of the whole season was another eye-gouging fan experience and a lottery pick. Let's call the Hannan and O'Byrne trades as wins, I'll punt on the Hunwick and Johnson deals, and we'll easily slide Anderson's jettison to Loserville (Population: the sum of Edmonton, Long Island, and Colorado).
'11-12: So far in the burgeoning season to come the Avs have drafted stud winger Gabriel Landeskog and not-as-handsome defenseman Duncan Siemens, both in the first round. Still too early on those as well. Not content to whimper through another free agency, the Avalanche went back to the well for a franchise goalie with the deal that sent a couple of picks to Washington for Semyon Varlamov. This followed the to-all-appearances astute pickup of defenseman Jan Hejda. They rounded things out with Chuck Kobasew, Shane O'Brien, and Patrick Rissmiller and Joakim Lindstrom for the forward corps. I don't like the slight overpayment for Varlamov and I'm not sure how Kobasew fits into the roster's depth chart, but I can't really hand down a verdict on those happenings yet.
In summary:
- High-Probability Draft Picks: right at .500 for the five drafts I honestly considered (8-out-of-16).
- Impact Trades: Again, just smidge over .500 on impact trades (7-out-of-13).
- Free Agent Signings: Shockingly, another result hovering just under .500 (7.5-out-of-17).
All in all, across the 46 acquisitions I considered, the Avalanche are chugging along at a pace just under 0.500. No wonder this exercise reeks of mediocrity. You can argue semantics and I'd maybe add a half-success/failure here or there, but it'd likely be a net zero proposition and wouldn't budge the overall much. If we we're looking for a "we've got nowhere to go but up!" optimism, it isn't really apparent from this evaluation. We'd need to see much more horrible performance across these three areas if we wanted to count on lightning striking out of sheer luck. Unfortunately, the middle of the road approach doesn't appear to be bearing much fruit and since management hasn't changed all that much since the lockout, their consistency in straddling good and bad may ultimately be damning.
Truth be told, the end result of the current CBA era for the Avalanche may well hinge on Johnson, Hishon, Landeskog, and Varlamov. Those four guys (more than Duchene and Stastny) very well may define the next 5-8 years of the Avalanche and their on-ice success. Management has pushed a lot of chips to the center of the table in the last couple years via the suckitude and last season's trades and if these players fizzle, Denver could very well turn into Panthers West. And everybody knows the West Coast versions of good thing blow copious chunks (Avengers, NCIS, Disneyland, Joey from Friends, etc.) except for rappers. Nobody wants to cheer for a team where along with dry-humping the salary floor, said team has taken up the always unsatisfying practice of blue-balling fans due to promises of "rebuilds" and "long-term strategies."
P.S. Sorry for the rambling, long-winded, incomprehensible post. Also, I correctly spelled a shit-ton of names. SBN's auto-tagger correctly linked FIFTY-NINE of them on the first try. For some reason it hates, HATES apostrophes. Racists. Also, subject-verb agreement is over-rated.
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West Coast versions of good thing blow copious chunks (Avengers, NCIS, Disneyland, Joey from Friends, etc.
Hate to break it to you but Disneyland isn’t a “west coast version” of anything. It’s the original. And it does not blow chunks.
The Colorado Avalanche: much more hugerer and depthier than last year
You picked a bad example!!
The Colorado Avalanche: much more hugerer and depthier than last year
by Cheryl Bradley on Jul 28, 2011 9:51 AM MDT up reply actions
Who made her a staff writer?
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
I think this is a very good post. Thanks!
What if:
Valamov can stay healthy and maintain a .924 SV% for 55-60 games?
EJ can continue his progression and start looking like a true franchise cornerstone?
Duchene continues his steady rise and flirts with 90 points?
Stastny can rebound from a terrible year?
Elliot can come in and (as Dater thinks he can) flirt with Calder contention, possibly chipping in a good 30+ points?
Varly and the bigger, tougher defense lower the team GAA by about .5 to .66 goals per game?
Landeskog performs like a stud and chips in maybe 40-ish points?
Galiardi comes back to playoffs of ‘10 form? Quincey comes back to ’10 form?
Mueller is healthy as a horse and goes back to his > ppg pace?
Ryan O’Reilly finally has his breakthrough season?
David Jones stays healthy and continues his success from last season?
Hejduk doesn’t hit the wall quite yet and continues to be his awesome self?
What’s the ceiling for this team? I know all of these things aren’t going to happen, but what if most of them do? The Avs could surprise a lot of people next season.
No soup for you!
If Avalanche goaltending and defense can improve the GAA down to a range of 2.5 to 2.75 then the Avs will compete for a playoff spot. I think it’s that simple.
In the ‘09 season Andy and Budaj had a save % around .917 with a 2.64 GAA. They don’t need Tim Thomas with a GAA of 2.00 although that would be fantastic. They need basic, good solid goaltending and defense. This isn’t a Florida team that couldn’t peform behind great goaltending. They need that back end to perform well.
I'll keep this brief.
2.5 would be great, it’s a full goal per game better than last year. I suppose it’s possible, with a whole season of EJ, a healthy Quincey, and the additions of Hejda and O’Brien. And of course Varlamov. Sherman has bet quite a bit of the future of the franchise and even his own job (IMO) on Varly. Hope those delicate groins are up to the task!
No soup for you!
I think you hit the nail on the head!
I was inspired to do the math. I know the team SV% won’t likely be .920, but check this out.
Last year’s team gave up 2608 shots. Team SV% was .890 for 287 goals against.
Not even taking into account the idea that a better D will be able to cut down on the # of shots against, 2608 shots vs. a team .920 SV% would be 208 goals against and a team GAA of 2.54. I could live with that!
No soup for you!
this year’s team will give up less shots, i think. the D is much improved. I’d say a sv pct of .910 would be enough combined with reduced shot totals.
There isn’t as much variation in shots against as one might think. 23 teams gave up between 28 and 32 shots per game against last year. The Avs were around 32 (and interestingly the Bruins were at 33!).
But yeah if we could get to 30 shots against (just 2 fewer per game) we’d only need a SV% of .916 to get to 2.5 GAA.
Dario was right on. Goaltending is everything.
No soup for you!
If everyone of those happens, they go to at least round 2 in the playoffs
Mission 48.3 Accomplished!
I stole these fwd lines from Doc in another thread.
Landeskog – Stastny – Jones
Mueller – Duchene – Hejduk
Gali – O’Reilly – Kobasew
Winnik – McClement – ?
Johnson-Hejda
Quincy-RoB
Gaunce-O’Byrne
Varlamov
Giguere
With this lineup healthy and playing nearly at its best, the Avs are a playoff team, though barely. I wouldn’t expect them to compete with the whoever they play in the first round. If they make it through to the third round of the playoffs, I will be shocked and overjoyed. If Hejdie was about 7 years younger and Landy about 4 years older, it might be a different story.
I need a drink, please.
by MalachiConstant on Jul 28, 2011 12:33 PM MDT up reply actions
I assume you meant on D both RoB and SoB?
I don’t think SoB will play that often. I think at least one PMD will be in the mix — be it Hunwick, Cumiskey, or Eli-Bar
I'm such a huge fan of the Avs I can name who our goalie was FOUR seasons ago! Crazy, right?!
by Guitarpick8120 on Jul 28, 2011 12:52 PM MDT up reply actions
Typhan Barriott.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
Yeah, I couldn’t remember off the top of my head…
A better combo than the lethargic/injured “Kytt Cumwick”
I'm such a huge fan of the Avs I can name who our goalie was FOUR seasons ago! Crazy, right?!
by Guitarpick8120 on Jul 28, 2011 12:56 PM MDT up reply actions
O’Brien or Elliot over Gaunce
This year’s lineup at its best is better than 2009/10’s at its best. 2009/10 made it to 6 games against a good Sharks team. They may not make it to the 3rd round, but I think that if everyone’s at their best, they win a round
Mission 48.3 Accomplished!
nevermind, i’m guessing you meant SoB. But still, Elliot should be in there. Wilson or Gaunce a s a 7th d-man
Mission 48.3 Accomplished!
Yeah, I meant SoB. No matter how you shake out the bottom two pairings on D though, the scenario doesn’t change much.
I need a drink, please.
by MalachiConstant on Jul 28, 2011 1:02 PM MDT up reply actions
I think Elliott will make the team as a 6th-7th D man but won’t get a ton of even 3rd-pairing minutes. He will get a lot of PP time, though. That’s pretty much how they handled Shattenkirk.
No soup for you!
Now that I think about it a little more, Shattenkirk didn’t in fact make the team out of camp. Maybe they’ll do the same with Barrie and Elliott…keep them in the AHL until someone inevitably gets hurt.
No soup for you!
I’m posting a look at TOI stats tomorrow, and Johnson is the only defenseman that’s even somewhat competent on the PP. If you’re looking at number of minutes of PP time between goals scored, Hejda is actually our #2 defenseman. And Hunwick, Cumiskey, and Quincey’s totals are REALLY crappy.
Elliott (or Barrie, but probably the larger Elliott) may have the chance to make it in camp just because of the PP. Having 2 defenseman that can run the point and actually, you know, score occasionally, is kinda nice on your PP units.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who <3s the Avs.
Obviously, I agree as I speculated above that Elliott might make the team pretty much as a PP specialist. But just adding to the discussion, I believe Mueller can run the point on the PP as well. Ofc I’d rather have several guys who can do it. You do need 2 PP units, after all.
No soup for you!
Yeah, I can see Mueller being like ‘96 Sakic and playing the point on the PP. Between him and Johnson, I guess we might be alright (with 2 stay at home d-men at the other point), but if we’re really going for broke, I’d love to see Mueller and Johnson both on our top PP unit, then Elliott and…. Quincey? on our second.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who <3s the Avs.
Great post Mike. One disagreement, I don’t think Hishon fell to us. I think he may be a tremendous draft choice, but at the time everything seemed to say that he was not going to be picked until later in the first and maybe even the second.
I think he totally fell to us. He fell down the ranking because of an injury. He was a top 10 prospect going into his draft year. The fact that other teams listened to stupid ranking services and didn’t watch the tape of his healthy games is the reason he wasn’t picked to go very high. Other teams’ stupidity was our benefit.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
I agree. I truly think Hishon will turn out to be the steal of that draft.
The Colorado Avalanche: much more hugerer and depthier than last year
by Cheryl Bradley on Jul 28, 2011 10:49 AM MDT up reply actions
He fell not from other teams’ idiocy but through a freak injury. Good for us, bad for picks 4-15.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
I just hope he doesn’t wind up in the Meuller, Kariya, Savard club of scrambled eggs for brains.
No soup for you!
I worry about that a lot. Even if we don’t consider the concussion, he seems really injury prone. Hopefully he can learn to keep his head up though, because the concussions will definitely end his career quickly. If it wasn’t for the injuries, I would be super high on him though. I really think he’s got the talent to play with the big boys.
That concussion wasn’t a matter of keeping his head up. That was head-hunting by the defenseman, plain and simple. If someone really wants to hurt you, they’ll find a way.
Great post. I agree with Dixomatic. I could have gone this morning without remembering half of that. But all in all, I like. Thanks
by Avalanchefan86 on Jul 28, 2011 10:13 AM MDT reply actions
The underlying theme to all of this during that time is…. goaltending.
That house hasn’t been in order since Roy.
The front office also hasn’t been the same since LaCroix stepped down as full time GM. Guigere was promoted in ’06, fired after ’08. The Granato / Quineville / Sacco wheel of fortune has been inconsistant as well.
I'll keep this brief.
I just did a fan shot of an Avs Guild article on Varly. I just keep getting more and more excited about that guy.
The Colorado Avalanche: much more hugerer and depthier than last year
by Cheryl Bradley on Jul 28, 2011 10:50 AM MDT up reply actions
I saw an article the other day (I think it was that clown from ESPN) which the repeated the ridiculous notion that Varlamov had played his way to the 3rd string bench-warmer at Washington.
If his health issues are really behind him (and how could the Avs trade a 1st and a 2nd if they aren’t) then he and the Avs are really going to make some of these national “experts” eat their words.
No soup for you!
I wonder if part of the reason they totally cleaned house between the pipes was to send the message to the young team that last season’s collapse wasn’t due to them, or to Sacco, or anyone else. It was just a goaltending failure. Period.
In a way the management is saying: “You guys are awesome, but the goalies let you down. Now here are a couple of way better goalies, now get out there and kick some ass!”
No soup for you!
Interesting perspective.
Well Languished.
Semyon says: "Let's win the Cup!"
by niwotsblessing on Jul 29, 2011 7:18 AM MDT up reply actions
The 2010-22 season ended up being a tale of two seasons
Holy fuck. I knew it felt long at the end, but never realized it spanned 12 years…
It's all about the O'
no kidding….you beat me to that. I just saw that
by Avalanchefan86 on Jul 28, 2011 11:47 AM MDT up reply actions
You are linked on Puckdaddy today Mike.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
WWW.PUCKDADDY.COM
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
LIAR!
I know you’re being snarky and all, but for those who don’t have it:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy
The Colorado Avalanche: much more hugerer and depthier than last year
by Cheryl Bradley on Jul 28, 2011 12:24 PM MDT up reply actions
There’s a lot of questions heading into next season…but this season holds more promise than the last 3 years…that’s for sure, I don’t think anyone will argue that.
I think the ultimate failure/success of this team will boil down to where that pick for Varlamov ends up…
Paul Stastny did, what Paul Stastny does. Score big goals.
Being a really young team, the Avs have the potential to be great, but also to be terrible. I’ll take that any day over the Avs teams of the prior 6 or so years. Teams that were solidly slightly above average.
I need a drink, please.
by MalachiConstant on Jul 28, 2011 12:23 PM MDT up reply actions
Like the article. I’m interested in how this compares to other teams, especially some of the perennial contenders.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
or more to the point for me, how it compared to the glory day avs.
Actually, maybe I don’t want to know that.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
A judgment on winning versus losing trades is so subjective. In two years, St. Louis and the Avs might both have won the trade.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
yes but who won the Avs/Washington trade? ;)
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
Vokoun’s (ex)agent definitely lost.
I need a drink, please.
by MalachiConstant on Jul 28, 2011 12:46 PM MDT up reply actions
Wonder if he knows Hannan’s (soon-to-be ex)agent?
by Dan Winkler on Jul 28, 2011 3:23 PM MDT up reply actions
No shit
Hannan’s Agent is fucking him. Which is surprising considering his last contract.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 28, 2011 3:25 PM MDT up reply actions
Did I miss something? How is it known that it is his agent?
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
I don’t think anyone really knows this at all. I was just trying to be funny. But if some team had really, really wanted Scott Hannan, they would have signed him by now. And it seems to me that Hannan was perfectly likely to be re-signed by Washington, but at a paycut. So it just makes me wonder what kind of signals he and his agent were sending out to teams about how much he’d cost.
It’s the agent’s job to make sure his client gets work and money. So far, Hannan has neither, and there’s a strong possibility that he’ll get a short-term contract (which isn’t ideal for a 32 year old) and that it will be at a significant reduction in his previous salary.
by Dan Winkler on Jul 28, 2011 8:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Oh, ok. I agree with all of that, I just didn’t know if maybe something about contract money/term demands had come out.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
Not content to whimper through another free agency, the Avalanche went back to the well for a franchise goalie with the deal that sent a couple of first round picks to Washington for Semyon Varlamov.
Did Varly’s price go up since last time I checked? One first and one second round pick.
One thing to keep in mind is that McPhee recently said 4 other teams besides the Avs were interested in Varly, so that could have driven the price up.
Mike is so particular about these things, he never ever ever every makes a mistake.
maybe.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
Fixed
If I didn’t have you guys to edit my stuff, what would I do?
Go on living, I guess.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
Maybe not.
(hope springs eternal, right?)
2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Hugging the cap floor and waiting on their revenue share, because hey, billionaires need welfare too!
The more I think about the Elliot/Anderson trade, the more I think the Avs were just looking to get Anderson out of Denver and quick. It was like a stop-loss move. Elliot was just a body to finish out the year, and maybe help the tank. Who knows why they needed to get Anderson out so quickly, maybe the Stewart rumors are true, or maybe he was a real cancer in the locker room.
THIS JUST IN
Avalanche have signed both Landeskog and Seimens to 3 year entry level contracts.
http://avalanche.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=585432&navid=DL|COL|home
No....
Disneyland most definitely DOES blow chunks. Disney World is as big as a freaking city! Besides, DL is in California and everyone knows Southern California is the worst- that’s why half of Denver are CA transplants.
Also, this is one of the more entertaining posts I’ve read on MHH Mike. Not exactly uplifting, but it got me excited again for Varley and Landeskog.
DL is in California and everyone knows Southern California is the worst- that’s why half of Denver are CA transplants.
Wait I’m all for So. Cal hate, but you’re going to pick Orlando over So Cal. Central Florida!?! over So. Cal? You’ve got to be joking right?
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 28, 2011 3:02 PM MDT up reply actions
I love a lot about Florida, but I usually wouldn’t include Orlando in that list. That being said, given a choice of living in SoCal or Central Florida (not necessarily Orlando) I would not hesitate for even a second to say FL.
I need a drink, please.
by MalachiConstant on Jul 28, 2011 3:09 PM MDT up reply actions
So Cal : OJ Simpson :: Cent. Fla:Casey Anthony
Point: So. Cal
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jul 28, 2011 3:24 PM MDT up reply actions
Careful…I was born and raised in So Cal. Banhammer-worthy words are being spoken!
The Colorado Avalanche: much more hugerer and depthier than last year
by Cheryl Bradley on Jul 28, 2011 7:20 PM MDT up reply actions
Curtis Leschyshyn?
I didn’t understand that reference, but when I Googled his name trying to see if he was part of that post-lockout team, just to make sure that I didn’t have significant memory loss, I did come across this from the SI.com archives.
This story probably works much better in the thread about the personnel moves that affected us the most, but I’m plopping it in here out of laziness. Talks about many things, including why Chris Simon was traded (because he sympathized with Kris Draper, maybe), how the Eric Lacroix situation transpired, and why Peter Stastny was relieved to leave Quebec.
Was the Leschyshyn reference just a mistake, Mike? What did I miss there?
by Dan Winkler on Jul 28, 2011 3:10 PM MDT reply actions
Didn’t he sign, but not play or something? link
I need a drink, please.
by MalachiConstant on Jul 28, 2011 3:14 PM MDT up reply actions
Correct. Signed after the lockout, retired before playing a game.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
Nice!
I have no recollection of that. Great research, thanks.
by Dan Winkler on Jul 28, 2011 3:22 PM MDT up reply actions
I remembered it, I was a little bummed because I wanted to at least see him play…..
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
Footer: We'll miss seeing you clear the riff raff off your lawn.
by Americanario on Jul 28, 2011 5:25 PM MDT up reply actions
If the average of trades/free agency/drafting is about .500, doesn’t this perhaps suggest using the “Law of Averages” that the Avs record for next year is also going to be around .500?
Let’s not get crazy here. No way do they have a 0.500 average next year. I expect it’ll be sub-.400.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
The Law of Averages is crazy.
I am definitely in agreement though – I don’t expect the Avs will be above .500 next year.
Why
Why does no one talk about the Vincent Damphouse signing right before the lock out. WHY U NO TALK BOUT THIS MIKE?
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
I know what you were doing in the draft by showing the top two rounds of picks, but I think you have to mention Barrie in the 09-10 draft. That year is looking like a great year for the Avs draft, maybe the best since coming to Denver. It is two early to tell, but if it pans out like we all think it will that is an amazing draft. Since that year the Avs have been drafting very well.
I understand where you’re coming from and I agree about the 09-10 draft. However, for long-term planning/team-building banking on later round picks is fool-hardy at best. Great picks like Barrie as late as he was taken are just gravy. Every team needs some of those to pan out sooner or later to be successful, but it’s not as deliberate an approach to team-building IMO.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
What I take from this:
Our management has made some good moves, some bad moves, and some really, REALLY stupid moves over the past few years. But when we were at least competing Cups, it didn’t matter because we still had a super-talented core. Even post lock-out when Foppa and Footer left for a time, we still had Sakic, Hejduk, and others. We weren’t as concerned with planning for the future via trade and draft because we weren’t rebuilding. We were already built. But when our teams foundation started to age and crumble, we made the mistake of looking to the past and re-signing our old talent instead of trying to draft in the new. So when Sakic left, our farm sucked and we didn’t have anyone besides Stastny to be a new core player for the future. I love Stastny, but he just isn’t talented enough to carry an entire franchise by himself.
It seems like it’s taken our management a few years to figure out how to build a good team without simply out-buying everyone else. In the cap era, we can’t spend like Lacroix used to, so the organization had to completely relearn how to conduct the business side of hockey. They started relearning in ‘05-’06, but the real shift didn’t come until ‘08-’09 when they realized that the old core was gone and they had no way to quickly bring in a new one. They also realized that gone were the days that they would be okay if their drafts and trades didn’t work out.
So they went back to basics and started heavily concentrating on the draft (which has already brought us Dutch, Radar, Landy, Elliott, Barrie, Hish, Pickard, and Seimens) and trades or signings for “diamond in the rough” type players like Winnik, Mueller, O’Byrne, and even Johnson. Even though some of those moves didn’t work out (or it’s too soon to tell), they show that the Avs were looking to invest in players’ futures instead of just getting them for the present. Because of this, a new long-term team identity is starting to take shape – we’re fast, progressively getting bigger and meaner, and have a ton of potential talent stored away on our young roster. Also, since we’ve been frugal (to almost the point of paranoia), we can easily afford to sign all of them and maybe a few more when the time is right. Our organizational depth is quietly being taken care of too – we’re cleaning out most of the players that don’t have any chance of ever making the NHL and replacing them with young, promising picks. And our trades have been getting progressively riskier – obviously the management is confident enough in our core that they are willing to make the bigger moves after a few seasons of laying low. Honestly, I wouldn’t be suprised if Sherman made a couple crazy deals for wingers in the next couple years.
We aren’t going to win all our trades and not all of our top draft picks are going to be home runs. But I honestly believe that the Avs have been doing better since ‘09 than they were in ’04-’08. We seem to have our priorities when it comes to player acquisition straight (as in, we actually have priorities), and even though we’ve only averaged .500 since the lockout, that stat has been brought up greatly by the past few years and will only continue to go up as more pieces start falling into place.
I could be wrong. There’s a possibility that the Varly move was made a season too soon, or that the Johnson deal will come back to bite us in the ass. But I honestly still have faith that this team has FINALLY realized that mediocre acquisitions made for the present aren’t going to work and is now headed on the right path. I still believe in Sherman (and now Sakic), perhaps stupidly, but strongly nevertheless. What they are doing makes sense. Until they prove me wrong, I will grudgingly back them and remain confident that this team is on the rebound.
P.S. I too apologize for the length, but such a long post requires such a long reply. It also took me 2 hours to edit this down, so it could have been much longer than it is.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who <3s the Avs.
by andidee15 on Jul 28, 2011 10:15 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
Bravo!
Well Languished.
Semyon says: "Let's win the Cup!"
by niwotsblessing on Jul 28, 2011 11:07 PM MDT up reply actions
I think the idea of winning a trade is very overrated by the fans and media. A lot of assets acquired by nhl teams will walk without any team compensation at all. Because of this, it doesn’t matter if a team over pays a little with assets to get the right assets in return. I think that’s what the avs have been doing lately, and it may work out really well. Of course, you can’t get too extreme with that.
by mcarson01 on Jul 29, 2011 1:02 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I’m not as concerned about beating the trade partner in the trade as I am about whether the trade worked for the Avs in on-ice performance, return-on-investment, etc. There were some STUPID, STUPID, trades made in the first few years after the lockout and there’s no other way to look at them honestly.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
Yeah, I understand where you’re coming from. And I agree that some of the post-lockout trades didn’t seem very smart. Please don’t take my comments as a rip on your article. I don’t have a problem with people rating trades, but it just seems a little overrated, as far as how the team may do in the future. Example, if the Avs won the cup in the next couple years, the trade win/loss ratio of the past wouldn’t matter at all. That’s doesn’t make your article any less entertaining though.
So you’re saying Iginla and Nash will be wearing uniprons soon? I like the way you think young lady!
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
No. They’re too much the “now”. I think the Iginla and Nash of 5-10 years from now could be wearing a unipron soon though. (If everything works out well, I think we just might have inked “Iginla” yesterday {crosses fingers})
I don’t see Sherman trading for anyone over the age of 27 if he can help it. He also won’t take on any really big, nasty contracts (or any Red Wings). And there are some LW that we just aren’t going to be able to get (I highly HIGHLY doubt we’d be willing to sacrifice what is needed to get Hall or Ovechkin). I actually was going to put together a post (and I still might), but I did some narrowing down of the top 100 LW in the league and found 16 that I think Sherman might consider if he decided to make the move tomorrow.
Alex Semin (WSH)
Thomas Vanek (BUF)
Zach Parise (NJD – depending on how crazy his next contract is)
Jamie Benn (DAL)
Tyler Ennis (BUF)
Milan Michalek (OTT)
James Neal (PIT)
Matt Moulson (NYI)
Andrei Kostitsyn (MTL)
Milan Lucic (BOS)
Nikolai Kulenim (TOR)
Michael Frolik (CHI)
Clarke MacArthur (TOR)
Sergei Kostitsyn (NSH)
Evander Kane (WPG)
James van Riemsdyk (PHI)
I’ll admit, I’m not familiar with everyone on the list, so they’re style of play / personality might not work for the team. But based on 10-11 stats, these are the wingers that scored 40+ pts (well, except for Zach, but my dream is to see him in a uni, so I HAD to include him), seem to have upside, and fit the above criteria.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who <3s the Avs.
JVR, drooool
LANDESKOG!!!!!
How Swede it is
by Cole D Hamilton on Jul 29, 2011 1:51 PM MDT up reply actions
Agreed. If we can somehow land that kid, I’ll be a happy camper.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who <3s the Avs.
Me too. But I could see a veteran guy like either of those two being added as a “final piece” if the terms etc worked out. Not saying it would be those two guys per se, but Iginla could be a bourque type pickup, and Nash is only 27. No idea of the contract status of those two, but at any rate I could see it happening. For a dynasty team though, I agree, younger would be better. I’d still take Nash if available. Or of course Parise.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
Mmmmmm Parise.
He signed a 1-year deal today. $6 mil. So he’d be almost cap neutral if we traded him for Stastny. Now, I’m not trying to get rid of Stastny (I want them to play together), but Parise in a unipron…… :)
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who <3s the Avs.
odds of the devil’s locking him up to a multiyear over this season?
I need a drink, please.
by MalachiConstant on Jul 29, 2011 10:41 PM MDT up reply actions
Well, they can’t do anything official until after Jan 1 I think I read, but after that? Yeah, Parise isn’t hitting the open market, especially if he’s the new Captain. That means we have to trade for him NOW! SHERMAN, MAKE IT HAPPEN! BRING ME PARISE!!!!!!!!!
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who <3s the Avs.
The best part about this, is she just in the last year or two (??) started watching hockey. That’s a lot o’learnin. You got it about spot on Andi.
Though I thought we were a pretty mediocre team just about right after the lockout. We brought in some spare parts to plug holes, but that didn’t mean the ship should’ve been sailing if you catch my drift.
I need a drink, please.
by MalachiConstant on Jul 29, 2011 6:14 AM MDT up reply actions
Thank you :). Yeah, at the beginning of the season, I knew basically nothing about hockey, but I’m a fast learner – especially when I’m interested in the subject matter.
And you would know better than I how the team was directly post-lockout. I’m still filling in gaps in my knowledge, and that’s one of them. But I think that even though our core wasn’t as strong as it had been (or needed to be), the talent of guys like Sakic and Hejduk and such carried it along. Management probably put too much faith in their ability to carry the team long-term. That’s why ‘08-09 happened – we got old, lost our core, and didn’t have anyone behind them to take over. Wasn’t Stastny also out due to injury for quite a bit of time that season? Broken arm, right? I mean, he was our only good draft pick from back then, and even he was a straight-up gift from the hockey gods. He’s currently third in his class in scoring (Behind Crosby and Kopitar), but we picked him up at #44! That’s AFTER Stoa! So basically our only good draft pick was due to dumb luck and sentimentality instead of research and skill. No wonder we crumbled in ’09.
Even now that we are beginning to make the big trades again, I think (or at least I hope) that the organization has learned their lesson and they will continue to give the genius known as Pracey all the support he deserves. In the cap era, you can’t afford to ignore the draft. We’ve been doing really well in the past few years – I just hope we keep it up, even when we are missing our first round pick.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who <3s the Avs.
Starting with the 05-06 roster, things didn’t look to bad. We still had a decent core, though it’s not very young anymore. Theo looked promising in net. Turgeon was a decent depth signing. Wolski and Svatos looked to have pretty bright futures (and showed it in their rookie years). Won’t saying anything for Breezeby. But nothing really gelled. It was almost definitely never the makings of a Stanley Cup team (hindsight helps here).
Things don’t work out great over the next season or so, but still management is trying to plug holes with UFA signings like Smyth and Hannan, while just letting our core sit and age.
Finally the holes got too big and the ship sank.
I need a drink, please.
by MalachiConstant on Jul 29, 2011 8:48 AM MDT up reply actions
Why does everyone keep forgetting we signed Joakim Lindstrom?
Well Languished.
Semyon says: "Let's win the Cup!"
I don’t know. I’m really excited about him.
This summer, we’ve signed Bordeleau, Lindstrom, Hejda, Kobasew, Varly, Giguere, Brophey, Rissmiller, Desjardins, and O’Brien. I think that’s everyone.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who <3s the Avs.
Here's how I see those:
Bottom six MAYBE, ???, marquee defenseman signing, depth forward (and I mentioned how I’m not sure where he fits), Goalie #1, Goalie #2, AHL depth, AHL depth, Goalie Depth, bottom pair defenseman.
Just for consistency, I’ll add Lindstrom to the post. I didn’t forget about him, just really wasn’t sure where he fit. I honestly think we’ll see Rissmiller in a unipron at some point due to injuries this season but Lindstrom is probably more likely to consistently be in Denver over Cleveland.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
He still feels like an unknown to me, both due to his NHL resume and the fact that the recent trend of taking fliers on good AHL or European depth guys seems to never amount to jack shit. Haydar, Ledin, and that other dude who has faded from memory already never really got used for anything. I’ll continue to reserve judgment on Lindstrom.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
This does feel a little different to me for some reason. I think it’s his age compiled with what he’s done in SEL. His NHL numbers weren’t bad either, considering that he was basically a young prospect at the time. You expect those players to grow and I think he did, but it was in the SEL. With that in mind, I feel confident that his NHL numbers will be much better than before.
I’ve been looking very closely at his NHL stats, and I’ve gotta say, he did really well with the limited ice time he was given. He averaged 12:07 minutes a game (which is low 3rd-4th line minutes), and still managed to put up .35 PPG. Porter, who averages almost 1:30 more per game, has a .30 PPG rate, and Yip (+2 minutes on average over Lindstrom) averages only .40. Plus, it certainly looks like Lindsrom has been getting even better over the past few seasons in the SEL. I mean, you don’t lead a professional league in scoring without some skill, even if it is in Europe.
I think there is a slim chance (but a chance nonetheless) that he could even possibly break into our top 6. He could just as easily end up in our bottom six or the top six in Erie. I dunno, but I’m pretty excited to see.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who <3s the Avs.
Nice post Mike, though I have to disagree on the Smyth trade, considering how LA unceremoniously shipped him out this year literally just to get a smaller contract to buy out, getting a young Top 4 D, who’s shown some real flashes of Top 2 is really solid return.
LANDESKOG!!!!!
How Swede it is
by Cole D Hamilton on Jul 29, 2011 1:54 PM MDT reply actions
The Smyth trade looks like it’ll likely go down in the loss column unfortunately.
I don’t really get this one. We never paid anything for Smyth, so we basically gave L.A. nothing for Quincey. That’s a pretty good win in my book.
Taking back a complete unknown and a buyout in a trade for one of the few productive players on the team is almost always going to be considered a loss, IMO. That doesn’t factor in the money spent or the fact that management gave him away as an almost tacit acknowledgement that his signing was a mistake given the way the team was supposedly going to be built.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
Interesting that you say Quincy was an unknown. Maybe by the fans he was, but scouts definitely know who he was. Perhaps you mean that it was unknown if he would work out or not, and I guess that question is still not 100% answered. Smyth was a mistake in the general sense that we probably should have started focusing on a rebuild, instead of signing vets. Although, from a long-term perspective, it may work out really nice for us, if Quincy works out, because we didn’t spend any assets to acquire Smyth, which means we didn’t spend any assets to acquire Quincy.
Another look at the Varly trade.
The very best goalies that get drafted in the first round are never ready to play in the NHL for a few years. If the were, I suspect they would almost always go first overall. We just got a goalie with as much potential as any goalie in any of the last few drafts, that’s ready to play now. And, he has experience in the NHL, and playoffs. To me, I can see how that’s worth a first and an second, especially if it’s not a lottery pick. Even if it is though, I can see it being worth at least the number one pick overall.
I dunno. I mean, I want Varly to succeed, but I think the second round pick was the payment for that experience and his potential. The first round pick was repaying the Caps for the original pick they used to draft Varly in the first place. If that first pick is in the 15 or under range (Varly was drafted #23), I’d say we overpaid at least in the short term. Long term, if he turns everything around and is the second coming of St. Patrick, then he would have been worth a 1st overall. But that’s unreasonable, so I’m just hoping for a non-lottery pick to Washington.
I still like the trade so far. I just hope Varly and the rest of the boys play well enough to make it a good trade instead of a crappy one. Let’s give the Caps pick #30 and let them suck on that! ;) lol
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who <3s the Avs.
See I think the 2nd alone would have been extreme underpayment. Maybe I’m misunderstanding your point though.
Goalies are worth the most about 5-7 years after they were drafted. With this in mind, the Caps fairly drafted Varly at #23, knowing that they would need to wait a long time for him to mature. As the goalie ages, he becomes worth more than his original drafted value. So what I’m saying is that Varly, now that he’s matured, is worth far more than his original #23 overall draft pick position. So, I would say that the first overall from us was probably fair for him alone, and the 2nd was a throw-in to tip the scales (assuming we have a similar finish as this year). However, if the Avs play well this year, the 2nd makes up for that no-so-high first, which makes the deal fair on both sides. And I really don’t think the Caps believe they’ll be getting a super high lottery pick. Only the pundits are really that stupid, which is why they aren’t currently running hockey teams. But, if the Avs do falter this year, IMO, I still think it’s wise to overpay (if you have to) for the most important position in hockey.
If he stays healthy, there is no doubt in my mind the Avs will benefit greatly from this trade. The only thing that scares me is his injury history.
No soup for you!
I understand that, but honestly name me an effective player in the NHL that’s had 3 seasons of experience that hasn’t had some kind of injury. Would you dismiss Crosby because he thinks he’s Batman? Tell Shea Weber to take a hike because he’s had a couple of knee injuries? Ship Forsberg out in his prime due to his injuries (oh wait….)
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!

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