If Doughty is Available, should we try and get him?
by ProfessorOak on Aug 29, 2011 9:51 PM MDT
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So as we all know, Drew Doughty is still holding out, he didn't have the best year last year, but was still solid, especially for a 21 year old defenseman. If the Kings can't come to an agreement with him, should the Avs consider testing the waters for what LA would want.
LA did just trade away the best prospect in all of Hockey, so maybe they are looking for some more prospects. They still have a solid prospect pool, but should the Avs consider it? He is a LD as well as EJ, so there may be some conflict there, and well, he'd prob want 7 mill a year. We definitely have the cap space for it, even after all of next off seasons signings, but we would have to give up A LOT, I can't even fathom how much. So basically, would you trade for him? and if so, what would you give up?
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Moot.
Point.
The Kings are no way in hell going to give up Drew Doughty. My brother is a Kings fan so I watch almost as many Kings games as I watch Avs games and I think Doughty is a generational talent. Dmen as good as he is as young as he is are a rare thing indeed.
The Kings aren’t in Rebuilding Mode, they are in Deep Into The Playoffs Mode this season. If you doubt that, think about how close the SJS/LAK series was, and imagine how it might have been different if Kopi hadn’t been hurt. Doughty is a big piece of that playoff puzzle.
If you want to make the price right, talk about Stastny, a pick, and a prospect. None of which the Kings need…
What Bent said.
I also watch a lot of Kings games, and yeah, no well in hell Kings are giving him up.
August sucks.
by Cheryl Bradley on Aug 30, 2011 10:15 AM MDT up reply actions
You forgot Yip. Deal killer.
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Aug 30, 2011 5:04 PM MDT up reply actions
Yip and 3rd to PIT for Crosby.
Silly.
2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Hugging the cap floor and waiting on their revenue share, because hey, billionaires need welfare too!
Overpayment...
For an injury prone forward that didn’t produce in the playoffs last year.
Slightly Tasteful Fudge Underpants
False!
Yip isn’t hurt that frequently.
2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Hugging the cap floor and waiting on their revenue share, because hey, billionaires need welfare too!
But that 3rd round pick will obviously be a lottery pick and the next coming Datsyuk. Logically speaking it is the only possibility.
Slightly Tasteful Fudge Underpants
It just comes down to when will Doughty or the Kings give in. Doughty “wants to be a King for life” yet wouldnt accept a 9 year, 6.5 mill contract, I don’t think he should be paid more than Kopitar.
by ProfessorOak on Aug 30, 2011 10:38 AM MDT up reply actions
Yes he should. Kopitar’s probably the 25th-30th best forward in the league. Maybe top 20. Doughty is top-5-top 10 defenseman, and will be even better.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Aug 30, 2011 11:54 AM MDT up reply actions
We really don’t know that, he had a good rookie year, great second year and a sub par third, asking to be paid like a top 10 or top 5 d-man after the year he had last year is ridiculous.
by ProfessorOak on Aug 30, 2011 2:51 PM MDT up reply actions
also, keep in mind that
there are, on average, 180 defensemen that you need to beat out to be the best, as a forward there are 360 others that you need to beat out to be the best (6×30 and 12×30), so being top 30 forward is approximately equivalent to being a top 15 defenseman, etc.
by ProfessorOak on Aug 30, 2011 3:06 PM MDT up reply actions
Top defensemen get paid more than a 25 forward.
Here’s the top salaries for Defenseman. Ignoring Lidstrom selling his soul, at a discount, to the devil, and the absurd Redden deal… do you believe for one second that Doughty isn’t better than Seabrook, Bieksa, Wisniewski (lol), Boyle, Bouwmeester, and Phaneuf. Well all those guys make at least $6.5M.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Aug 30, 2011 3:35 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah, Boyle is about the onyl comparable, since he signed that deal when he was playing his best, which was Norris finalist good.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Aug 30, 2011 3:42 PM MDT up reply actions
Except for that whole scoring on your own goalie. in overtime. in the playoffs.
ZING!
by c0nquistad0rian on Sep 3, 2011 11:22 PM MDT up reply actions
Agreed.
A similar poll might read: “If we could invent a time machine and go back to draft Gretzky & Orr, should we do it?”
Tempting thought, but I’m a bit busy planning for the end of the world next December to put too much effort into it.
2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Hugging the cap floor and waiting on their revenue share, because hey, billionaires need welfare too!
Bad news dude, some observers of things Mayan pin the end of calendar happening on October 28th of this year.
Well Languished.
Semyon says: "Let's win the Cup!"
by niwotsblessing on Aug 30, 2011 12:47 PM MDT up reply actions
I wish they’d sort this out. It makes it difficult to plan a good panic.
"It's all about the $"
Lawn defender since... crap, I can't remember.
by Busted Twigg on Aug 30, 2011 1:20 PM MDT up reply actions
A home game against the Oilers? What’s so world-ending about that? Is Wilson going to Mack truck someone so hard it rips the space-time continuum?
4th biggest pessimist of MHH.
"There's always next season." -- Jimmy Howard on not winning the Calder Trophy.
Or does it just knock him back in time?
by Avalanchefan86 on Aug 30, 2011 1:31 PM MDT up reply actions
at least we get to see Landy score on the red wings before it is all over
by avalanchejef on Aug 30, 2011 9:47 PM MDT up reply actions
The avs don’t have anything that the Kings would want. Stastny? They have richards now and Johnson for Doughty doesn’t make much sense and the avs are set a goal now.
Chip, I'm gonna come at you like a spider monkey!
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Aug 30, 2011 9:05 AM MDT reply actions
Am I the only that thinks this guy’s overrated?
He’s good, don’t get me wrong, he’s talented…but generational talent? I don’t think from what I’ve seen, he has the work ethic to follow up with that skill level.
Paul Stastny did, what Paul Stastny does. Score big goals.
I think he’s winning multiple Norris’
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Aug 30, 2011 12:34 PM MDT up reply actions
Not if EJ wins them first.
Well Languished.
Semyon says: "Let's win the Cup!"
by niwotsblessing on Aug 30, 2011 12:47 PM MDT up reply actions
Unfortunately
Doughty > Johnson
August sucks.
by Cheryl Bradley on Aug 30, 2011 1:04 PM MDT up reply actions
I hope you get your avalanche goggles fixed before the season starts
by avalanchejef on Aug 30, 2011 9:49 PM MDT up reply actions
Keith – 6.5 years = Doughty.
I’ll wait and see
2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Hugging the cap floor and waiting on their revenue share, because hey, billionaires need welfare too!
by Hopfenkopf on Aug 30, 2011 4:42 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry to say, but you are. He’s HOFer material for sure.
August sucks.
by Cheryl Bradley on Aug 30, 2011 1:04 PM MDT up reply actions
He’s had one good season, how can people say HOF…maybe if it was eye popping like a Crosby or Ovechkin type season…
Paul Stastny did, what Paul Stastny does. Score big goals.
A 59 point season followed by 40 point season (a season with nagging injuries), almost PPG in the playoffs both those seasons and an Olympic gold. That is pretty substantial.
Even when he was healthy, he wasn’t seeing as much PP time as Jack Johnson. Also, he missed 6 games only.
In that 59pt season, Keith had 69pts. Much more impressive. Also won the gold along with the cup.
I want to see him lead a team because I start throwing around words like generational talent or HOFer. Sidney Crosby is a generational talent. Those freaks in Vancouver are and Stamkos are great talents. That’s what defines it for me.
(That one game where he got I believe 2 goals 2 assists was impressive…but looking it up he ONLY had 4 points in the 6 game series.) Jack Johnson was way more impressive with 6 points and consistently.
Paul Stastny did, what Paul Stastny does. Score big goals.
(That one game where he got I believe 2 goals 2 assists was impressive…but looking it up he ONLY had 4 points in the 6 game series.) Jack Johnson was way more impressive with 6 points and consistently.
Save for the fact that Jack Johnson sucks at defense. But yeah.
2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Hugging the cap floor and waiting on their revenue share, because hey, billionaires need welfare too!
Overall yes, but he was way more impressive than Doughty was…
(and can’t take the whole he got more attention argument either)
Paul Stastny did, what Paul Stastny does. Score big goals.
Overall yes, but he was way more impressive than Doughty was…
sorry, Jack Johnson has never once been more impressive than Doughty. If we’re talking overrated Kings defensemen, the list starts with Jack Johnson.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Aug 31, 2011 7:37 AM MDT up reply actions 6 recs
Funny thing is….a lot of Kings fans agree with you. They don’t like him, don’t want him.
August sucks.
by Cheryl Bradley on Aug 31, 2011 10:09 AM MDT up reply actions
That’s funny, because Jack Johnson showed up for the playoffs…where was Doughty?
Paul Stastny did, what Paul Stastny does. Score big goals.
That’s funny, because Jack Johnson showed up for the playoffs…where was Doughty?
You seem to have a funny recolection of the playoffs.
Jack Johnson got brutalized in the playoffs. The Heatly-Pavelski-Clowe line (his main opposition) went 9g-6a-15p against him meanwhile he had a grand total of 4 points (the exact same amount as Doughty)
Johnson was outplayed egregiously at even strength. I mean he got just absolutely manhandled . The Kings, as a team, got punished pretty badly, but Jack Johnson was just posterized by the Sharks.
Doughty had poor stats too, but they weren’t even in the same stratosphere as Johnson’s. The Thorton-Marleau-Setoguchi line did well (5-7-12) but they are also a much better line than the one JJ played against. Plus Doughty started in his own zone a lot more than Johnson (41%-46% OZone).
Jack Johnson got walloped in the playoffs, and usually gets walloped when playing against teams with two good lines: where he can’t be protected by Doughty. The playoffs were no different.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Sep 1, 2011 7:56 AM MDT up reply actions
Johnson had 5 points. Look it up.
That Pavelski line was better than the Thornton in all of last years playoffs if I recall too…must have been because our number 1 pairing was so uber to keep Thornton and Marleau off the scoresheet right? There’s a reason why Those two have choker labers on them and ONLY until round 3 (which ironically the rest of the team disappeared) did they finally show up.
Game 1: Jack Johnson was all over the ice, as was Doughty. But unlike Johnson, Doughty was on the ice for the wrong reasons, being caught pinching, missing hits. Hell he almost got burned on the PP as he caused a 2on1 the other way. Watch Doughty miss a hit, fall down and Coutoure walks in all alone. (but wait, we’re not counting that because we’re only counting points from the Thornton line right?) Pavelski scores in OT (which we’re counting against Johnson right? But he wasn’t even on the ice…but we’ll blame him anyways right?)
Game 2: I’ll admit, that was a game Doughty grabbed by the throat and never let go. Johnson was good for 2 points too.
Game 3: That 4 goal collapse the Kings surrendered? Doughty was on the ice for 4 even strength goals. the last 2 in a row including the GWG. Johnson on the ice for the last 2 King’s goals. Doughty was victimized on that GTG by Pavelski. His worst game of the playoffs.
Game 4: Johnson blew a coverage on the 3rd goal, can’t blame him for the tip in, but also put up an assist. His worst game of the playoffs.
Game 5: That game was all Quick. 51 saves, unreal.
Game 6: Doughty knocks down his own goalie, gets caught staring for a good 30 seconds, puck goes in. Jack Johnson was a FORCE on that PP, its a shock he only got 1 point on the double minor. Doughty get’s a plus 1 because the Kings win a faceoff and Mitchell dumps a puck in and Smyth puts it in.
I’m not painting Johnson to be a great player, he’s good, and not the oaf that you’re making it out to be, and I’ll have to wait before I crown Doughty the second coming of Jesus. The same Stratosphere eh? Both of them had 8 total goals against the series. But of course you pull the “Thornton line has only 5 goals and Pavelski line has 9 so therefore Johnson is the sucks” You should realize a lot of Pavelski’s points where against the likes of Scuderi.
Johnson is gaurded, for sure, but he made the most of his ice time, but my point still stands, he wasn’t as bad as Doughty (where more is expected).
Paul Stastny did, what Paul Stastny does. Score big goals.
Derek Zona summed it up pretty nicely right after the Series
Jack Johnson is, as Zona put it, a human turnstile who helps out on the powerplay. He’s awful at Even strength. Simply awful at defense. As a defender, that’s quite the problem. He was absolutely abused in that Sharks series.
There’s a reason why Those two have choker lablers on them and ONLY until round 3 (which ironically the rest of the team disappeared) did they finally show up.
And no I didn’t go back and look at every goal, I went and generalized: Thornton played mostly against Doughty, and Pavelski line played mostly against Johnson. Which is wrong anyways, Pavelski was on the 3rd line. The second line was Coture, Heatly, Clowe… and they abused Johnson so badly piñatas felt sorry for him
Because fans build shitty narratives? Thornton and Marleau have been performing in the playoffs for the last 2 seasons, despite playing against guys like Lidstrom and Dou
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Sep 1, 2011 12:18 PM MDT up reply actions
Darn, needed to scroll down.
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
by red army line on Sep 9, 2011 3:07 PM MDT up reply actions
Okay, so maybe Johnson played better during one playoff series (I don’t agree, but for sake of argument). He certainly does not make a habit of it. He’s infuriatingly inconsistent and simply does not have the raw talent Doughty does.
Some stats:
Total games/points for NHL career
Doughty – 125 pts/238 career games
Johnson – 100 pts/282 career games
Most productive year:
Doughty – 09-10 with 59 pts
Johnson – 10-11 with 42 pts (only 2 more than Doughty, who everyone agrees had a bad year)
Plus/Minus (take it for what it’s worth) 2010-11:
Doughty – +13
Johnson – -21
Shooting % 2010-2011:
Doughty – 7.9%
Johnson – 3.3%
Shooting % 2010-11 playoffs:
Doughty – 16.7%
Johnson – 6.3%
Shooting % 2009-2010 playoffs:
Doughty – 23.1%
Johnson – 0% (he didn’t get any goals; all 7 pts were from assists)
I’d take Doughty over Johnson every single time.
August sucks.
by Cheryl Bradley on Sep 1, 2011 7:17 PM MDT up reply actions
-21??
Hahahahaha good god
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Sep 1, 2011 9:31 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
The arguement was that I thought Johnson played better in the playoffs…
I never said Johnson is better. And I made it a point to keep repeating I wouldn’t pick him over Doughty either.
The point is before Doughty is consistently above good, he’s not a generational talent. and he sure as hell isn’t getting into the HOF without a Cup or something else more significant. (pretty sure the gold isn’t enough)
Paul Stastny did, what Paul Stastny does. Score big goals.
Norris finalist at 20 and 1D-worthy performances the other two years…that’s a better resume than most HOFers have by that age. There aren’t many lock HOFers, but Doughty is as good a bet as anyone under 27 not named Crosby or Ovechkin.
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
by red army line on Sep 9, 2011 3:09 PM MDT up reply actions
Doughty was very good. Johnson sucked.
I think the tone of this piece about JJ vs Doughty in the playoffs is excessive, but it presents the information clearly.
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
by red army line on Sep 9, 2011 3:07 PM MDT up reply actions
The Sedins are generational talents? Really?
It took them, what, 10 years to produce at an elite level?
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Aug 30, 2011 8:58 PM MDT up reply actions
He said Syd was a generational talent and then that the Sedins and Stamkos are great talents.
Check out my girlfriends business at www.AllyBStudio.com
As grandma always says, Fuck the Red Wings, indeed.
by David Danger on Aug 31, 2011 7:58 AM MDT up reply actions
Oh he did.
Reading is hard, apparently.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Aug 31, 2011 8:02 AM MDT up reply actions
Jack Johnson was way more impressive with 6 points and consistently.
Even Kings fans are laughing at this statement. Johnson is anything but consistent. He has Wolski syndrome something bad. Most Kings fans would be happy to have him off that team.
August sucks.
by Cheryl Bradley on Aug 31, 2011 10:07 AM MDT up reply actions
I never meant in his entire career, the point was to refer to whoever earlier brought up Doughty was almost a PPG player in the playoffs last year.
Paul Stastny did, what Paul Stastny does. Score big goals.
But he WAS almost a PPG player. True, Johnson was too, but look at his shooting percentage. It’s woefully worse than Doughty’s. Everyone says Doughty didn’t bother to show up to the playoffs and he still almost equaled Johnson who supposedly played so well. How can there even be a comparison between the two when Doughty’s worst is about equal to Johnson’s best?
Personally, I’ve spent many many nights at the Staples Center watching the Kings play, and I beat my head against they keyboard when everyone around here was pining for JJ at the trade deadline. The man is not very good. And he’s an attitude problem as well. So not interested in him.
August sucks.
by Cheryl Bradley on Sep 1, 2011 7:23 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Our Johnson is better than the LAs Johnson.
I think I just found my sig line. Now if I could just figure out how to do that.
I can’t wait to quit comparing the size of our Johnson’s and get down to the business of proving which is more effective.
Slightly Tasteful Fudge Underpants
It is all about proper positioning of said Johnson. If your Johnson is not in the proper position size does not matter.
On the other hand if you have size and proper positioning then all will love what your Johnson can do and fans will cheer at the sight of your Johnson.
Our Johnson is bigger and better than LA's Johnson so suck it.
by cush52 on Sep 1, 2011 2:32 PM MDT up reply actions 7 recs
I think he’s that good. I’d love to have him at the right price, but I highly doubt he’s leaving LA anytime soon.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
As soon as he gets his Sidenberg, Seabrook, Sutter, Danyenko, Foote… he will really get to display how incredibly talented he is. Unfortunately for him he has Jack Johnson for the next 7 years.
I'll keep this brief.
Which is why getting a player like Hejda is so huge for Erik Johnson’s development.
I'll keep this brief.
I think he is overrated too
just too young to call him the next big thing after his sub-par season (for him) last year.
by ProfessorOak on Aug 30, 2011 2:53 PM MDT up reply actions
I assume you’re saying similar things about Duchene then right?
Doughty is fricking fantastic. He’s going to be a great one. He’s already a great one.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Aug 30, 2011 3:42 PM MDT up reply actions
I think Duchene is good
he has the skills, he just needs to put it together, many players have had a good first two years and exploded after their third, many have also faltered. I think anyone calling Duchene a great player now, is over rating him, he’s a solid player, has bits of inconsistency (injury or not) but may increase to be a great player, possibly a franchise player.
I'm confused
You keep calling his last season sub-par and then saying “for him” and now he’s overrated? If a 40 point season, a pretty solid number, is considered well below Doughty standards, that would mean his normal year is in the 55+ point range or so, right? And he’s overrated? What??
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Aug 30, 2011 9:00 PM MDT up reply actions
good call sir
It’s sub par for what is expected of him, and what was expected of him was based off of his one fantastic year, which I feel isn’t fair. It will take a few years to see whether or not he is a generational talent or not
by ProfessorOak on Aug 30, 2011 11:27 PM MDT up reply actions
It’d be pretty dumb not to trade for a player of his caliber if the price was right. If you say we don’t need him look at his solid numbers in clutch situations. In 12 playoff games he hast 11 pts. Not too shabby for a D-man especially a fairly young one. You can always use that kind of guy. Also 40 pts last season is still solid compared to our D-core. Erik Johnson only had 29, our best defenceman is gone now and his career best was only 46 compared to Doughty’s career best 59 which was only 2 seasons ago. So Obviously for the right price, a trade that wouldn’t cripple us at a certain position is a no brainer.
“If the price was right” is the key. The price wouldn’t ever be right because the Avs cannot afford to give up the kind of player (Stastny or Duchene) it would require to get Doughty. That’s the point. There is no “right” price.
August sucks.
by Cheryl Bradley on Aug 31, 2011 10:11 AM MDT up reply actions
Frankly, the answer to this type of poll is always “if the price is right.”
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
by red army line on Sep 9, 2011 3:11 PM MDT up reply actions
Any team that has a chance to land him would be stupid not to.
Exhaustive list of teams with a chance to land Drew Doughty:
1. Kings
2. Kings
It's all about the O'
Forgot one:
Los Reyes de Los Angeles
2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Hugging the cap floor and waiting on their revenue share, because hey, billionaires need welfare too!
Definitely. He'd be an excellent addition to MHH.
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by Tempestuous Binary on Aug 30, 2011 10:29 PM MDT reply actions 6 recs
Related Question:
If Corey Perry becomes available should we go after him?
Chip, I'm gonna come at you like a spider monkey!
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Sep 6, 2011 9:50 AM MDT reply actions
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