Colorado Avalanche Blogger Roundtable Day 2: Moving Vans
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Sep 6, 2011 7:00 AM MDT
in Avalanche Blogger Roundtable
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With the Thrashers moving to Winnipeg, there is talk that the NHL will need to realign next season. As NHL commissioner for the day, you are charged with realigning the Western Conference so pick 14-16 teams to play in the West and break them into divisions as you see fit.
Kind of like the Kariya and Selanne signings, this question probably was better in idea than execution. I didn't consider how tough it might be to differentiate all the different answers (nor did I realize what a bear this one would be to edit). Still, these are some great answers (are you reading, Gary?) and this is a question that could have a very real impact on the team next year. And, of course, it will impact the sleep patterns of East Coast fans like Geoff and I.
Geoff Rosenthal, The Avs Factor: Let me preface this by saying that if the Avs are moved to the Pacific Division, I'm going to be pretty annoyed. I already stay up too late watching hockey. This East Coaster doesn't need games to start another hour later. With that in mind:
"The Never To Be Seen On TV Division" "The We Screwed With Detroit, Moved Columbus Division"
Colorado Minnesota
Edmonton Winnipeg
Calgary Nashville
Vancouver Chicago
San Jose Dallas
Los Angeles St. Louis
Anaheim Detroit
Phoenix
Not surprisingly, lots of people would rather move Columbus to the East instead of oft-mentioned Detroit.
Nic Zamora, Avaholics Anonymous: Columbus would be the team I would move out east. I would put the Canadian teams in the same division and the California teams in the same division. The Avs would move to the Pacific and Dallas to the Central. Northwest - Calgary, Edmonton, Minnesota, Vancouver, Winnipeg. Pacific - Anaheim, Colorado, LA, Phoenix, San Jose. Central - Chicago, Dallas, Detroit, Nashville, St. Louis.
Brett Shumway, Mile High Hockey:
Southwest: San Jose, Los Angeles, Anaheim, Phoenix, Colorado
Northwest: Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Minnesota
Central: St Louis, Dallas, Chicago, Nashville, Detroit
These divisions lessen the travel for every team involved within division, excluding the central who would have to go to Dallas rather than Columbus, but they had travel easy anyways. Bitches. It's a toss-up between Columbus and Detroit to get booted from the West. Geographically I'd toss out Columbus, but my heart is powered by my desire to see the Avs devour Red Wings, so I'd keep Detroit in the West in hopes that the rivalry is rekindled. Besides, the East already has 4 of the original six, let's let the West have 2.
Cheryl Bradley, Mile High Hockey & Avalanche Breakaway:
Here's what I would do:
| Western Conference | Eastern Conference |
| Pacific Division: | Northeast Division: |
| Edmonton | Montreal |
| Calgary | Ottowa |
| Vancouver | Toronto |
| San Jose | Buffalo |
| Los Angeles | Detroit |
| Anaheim | Boston |
| Phoenix | New York Rangers |
| New York Islanders | |
| Central Division: | Southeast Division: |
| Colorado | Columbus |
| Dallas | Philadelphia |
| Winnipeg | Pittsburgh |
| Minnesota | Washington |
| St Louis | New Jersey |
| Nashville | Carolina |
| Chicago | Florida |
| Tampa Bay |
The schedule would shake down like this. All teams in the league would play each other at least once. Within the Western conference, teams would play each other 4 times. In the East, it would be 3 times each. Finally, each team would play its division rivals 6 times. The season would reduce to 80 games. The post-season brackets would work as it does in the AHL: top 4 within each division would duke it out for top dog. The top teams in each division become the conference finalists.
This isn’t by any means an original idea. In fact, it’s been discussed on this blog as well as many others. It makes the most sense to me for a lot of reasons, the most important of which is the fostering of rivalries. Games between rivals are the most entertaining. Moreover, if you’re going to play that many games within one division, it doesn’t make sense to end the season with those divisions meaning essentially nothing other than the placement of the top 3 seeds. The way these divisions are set up, a few rivalries would be lost or diminished, but others would develop to take their places. As for Colorado’s division, it may not be ideal in terms of divisional foes. Some of the teams are quite boring (* cough * Wild * cough *), and the Avalanche get stuck with a ton of travel miles. However, based on time zones and overall league travel, it’s the best option within this plan. It would also keep the Avs out of the Pacific Division, which is full of teams that always seem to bring the beat down.
Meanwhile, a couple are in favor of sending Detroit to the East perhaps so they can be closer to Amway headquarters
Angélique Murray, Colorado Avalanche Prospects, MHH & Chicks Who Give a Puck:
With the Winnipeg Jets likely switching to the Western Conference, I would boot Detroit to the Eastern Conference; keeping each side with 15 teams. I understand there has been some chatter of having four divisions of seven or eight teams, but I prefer the current format. I'm not creative, so I'll keep the division names the same.
Central Division
Northwest Division
Colorado Avalanche
Winnipeg Jets
Pacific Division
Ryan Boulding, The Avalanche Guild:
Pacific Division
Vancouver
Calgary
San Jose
Anaheim
Los Angeles
North/West
Edmonton
Colorado
Phoenix
Dallas
Winnipeg
Central
Minnesota
St. Louis
Nashville
Chicago
Columbus
This would, given the present state of teams, make the newly named North/West division one of the weakest in the West. It does make sense though based on geography.
Or, you could send BOTH Columbus and Detroit to the East.
Adrian Dater, Denver Post:
MIDWEST (OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT AS A NAME) Winnipeg Minnesota St. Louis Chicago Nashville Edmonton Florida Calgary
PACIFIC Colorado Phoenix San Jose Los Angeles Anaheim Dallas Vancouver
Under this alignment, I have Winnipeg and Florida moving from the East to the West, and Columbus and Detroit going to the East. Florida in the West, you say? Hey, it's no weirder than having an eastern city like Columbus in the West. Florida has no rivalry at all with Tampa Bay, mostly because the true natives of Florida don't give a hoot about hockey. It's all the transplants - many from Canada - who care there. They'll show up more to see Canadian teams play there than places like Buffalo. I think it's practically a given now that the Avs will move to a "Pacific" division next year - especially if Phoenix moves to a new city, which I'd say is better than even money at this point.
Derek Bell, Mile High Hockey:
WESTERN CONFERENCE
Pacific Division
Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, San Jose, Los Angeles, Anaheim, Phoenix
Central Division
Winnipeg, Minnesota, Colorado, Chicago, St. Louis, Nashville, Dallas
EASTERN CONFERENCE
North Division
Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa, Buffalo, Boston, New York Rangers, New York Islanders, New Jersey
South Division
Detroit, Columbus, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Washington, Carolina, Tampa Bay, Florida
This alignment makes the most sense because it bases the division members based on the time zones they are in. I'm all for Detroit having to travel as much as possible and being tired and worn down at the end of the season from traveling all over the place, but it just makes sense for them and Columbus to play in the Eastern Conference since they play in the Eastern Time Zone.
Instead of Columbus, another option would be to send Nashville to the East:
Mike Chambers, Denver Post: Winnipeg goes to the Western Conference and Nashville goes east. The Red Wings may prefer to go to the Eastern Conference for travel purposes, but Detroit has too many established rivals in the west. Keep the Wings where they are. Not going to list the divisions here.
Mike Verminski, Put It On Ice: Not necessarily how I would like the divisions to be, but how I think they should be based on geography.
Northwest Division: Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, San Jose
West Division: Los Angeles, Anaheim, Phoenix, Colorado, Dallas
Central Division: Minnesota, Chicago, St. Louis, Columbus, Detroit
Jaye Horbay, Mile High Sticking: A story I got so sick of reading was conference re-alignment and now I have to bring it back, thanks guys ;) Okay here goes..
Northwest
Calgary
Edmonton
Colorado
Winnipeg
Central
Detroit (no way they're moving out)
Minnesota
Chicago
St Louis
Dallas
Columbus
Pacific (finally a true ‘Pacific' division)
Vancouver
San Jose
Los Angeles
Anaheim
Phoenix (ah crap, spoke to soon, they'll be in Quebec this time next season anyways)
(Nashville would be moved to the Southeast to replace Atlanta)
And then there's the potential monkey wrench in Phoenix
Andi D, Mile High Hockey: If I was NHL commissioner for a day, the first thing I would do is move Phoenix. Even though it sucks for the fans, it's time to end that mess and move on. I'm not sure where the team would go, but for the sake of this argument, let's say that Phoenix moves to Quebec and joins the Eastern Conference. From there, instead of realigning the divisions, I'd abolish them completely. In their place, I'd opt for a calendar where a team plays all the teams in the other conference 2 times (once at home, once on the road), and all the teams in their conference 4 times. It would mean 86 games a year with 30 out of conference and 56 in conference. Playoffs would simply be the 8 teams with the highest point totals in each of the conferences. And since rivalries are typically born in the playoffs more than by geography, I don't think getting rid of divisions would hurt the league at all. It would greatly simplify things, and it would mean the Avs would only have to see the Canucks, Wild, Flames and Oilers 4 times a year instead of 6. In my opinion, that's a good thing.
Matt Muzia, SBNation Denver:
Northwest: Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Minnesota
Pacific: San Jose, Anaheim, Los Angeles, Colorado, Dallas (Phoenix moves to Hamilton)
Central: Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis, Nashville, Columbus
I'm actually mostly happy with the current division alignments.
One thing that warms my heart is that so many proposals have just two divisions per conference instead of three
Stephen Crociata, Mile High Sticking & SBNation New York: I'm personally in favor of the two division realignment which puts the Jets, Wild, Blackhawks, Blue Jackets, Stars, and Predators in one division; while the Avalanche, Oilers, Kings, Coyotes, Canucks, Flames, Ducks, and Sharks are in another division.
Norbert from Austria, Eurolanche.com: As NHL commissioner, I would realign the NHL to four divisions instead of six divisions. In the West, there should be a central division consisting of 8 teams and a pacific division consisting of 7 teams. The central division should consist of the current central division teams plus teams Minnesota, Winnipeg and Dallas. The pacific division should get the current pacific division teams (minus Dallas) plus Colorado, Calgary, Edmonton and Vancouver.
This alignment may also reduce some of the travelling-issues in the NHL as travelling concentrates more on north-south-flights for all western Teams, which would provide more equality in travelling time in the West.
Or, if you really wanted to shake things up...
Austin Snow, Avs Chill Zone: I think a major shakeup of the conferences and alignments could be fun. I'm having a major problem figuring out how to do that though. Geographically, I want to put the Red Wings into the Eastern Conference to offset the Atlanta move to Phoenix, but I just don't see such a major shift in power happening. Losing the Red Wings would really cripple the Western Conference. Conversely, I feel like the Columbus Blue Jackets or Nashville Predators could move to the East with relative ease.
I did a piece on realignment a couple months back, and to me a good plan would be to shift the Jackets to the East, put Winnipeg into the NW division, and shift Colorado into the central. Maybe stir up the Wings rivalry a bit and keep the northern teams playing each other.
But my ultimate shakeup would be to introduce two totally new conferences, such as the AFC & NFC or NL & AL, with two or three geographically aligned divisions per conference. A totally changed NHL landscape could drive fans' interest, and you could maintain certain matchups within conferences and/or divisions. For instance, keep Pittsburgh and Washington in the same division. Teams would share travel burdens more evenly under this plan too. Off the top of my head, teams I would include in the Avs' conference would be: Vancouver, Edmonton, Los Angeles, Phoenix, St. Louis, Detroit, Columbus, Montreal, Boston, Buffalo, NY Rangers, Philadelphia, Tampa, and Carolina.
Finally, while those are all great proposals, AJ wins the thread with simplicity.
AJ Haefele, Mile High Hockey: Leave it as is just so Detroit fans still have something to whine about all the time :D
Although he did forget to include "Presented by Amway". Regardless of where the Avalanche end up, I really hope the league goes back to two divisions per conference, resurrecting divisional playoffs in the process. Not that I'll be holding my breath
No poll today. Tomorrow we leave the hypothetical behind and start with some hard-hitting analysis, kicking things off with a look at Avalanche GM Greg Sherman.
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My head is spinning, that’s a lot to digest. I am with the first poster though, and I know DDC as well, when I say the main reason I don’t want the Avs in the Pacific is the time. I can’t stay up that late anymore, even to watch hockey.
And fuck Detroit (Brought to you by Amway), though I am with AJ in saying that it’s fun to see them whine about something
Stabilize your rear deflectors, watch for enemy fighters.
Agreed. Even when I lived in Colorado, the Pacific games went too late. At least keep the Avs with the MST teams, but moving to the central would be nice.
Dont you guys have DVR. Just record the game and watch it the next night. That is easy for me to say because I typically stay up till midnight so it isn’t a problem for me to watch a 9:00 game.
Our Johnson is bigger and better than LA's Johnson so suck it.
Do you know how much backlog I have on my DVR? Plus, then we wouldn’t be able to hang out on here at all the next day, and that just ain’t happenin’.
by Mrs @ MHH on Sep 6, 2011 8:09 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Priorities!
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
Yeah, I work in news, sports comes with it. I don’t like watching games where I already know the outcome.
Stabilize your rear deflectors, watch for enemy fighters.
by chiavsfan on Sep 6, 2011 8:44 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
I cannot watch games on PVR, that feels cheap. I want to watch a the game is happening.
It's all about the A-
by Sandie Gauthier on Sep 6, 2011 9:44 AM MDT up reply actions
I prefer to watch games live too, but I would rather see a game on DVR then not see it because I was busy at the point in time it was on.
Our Johnson is bigger and better than LA's Johnson so suck it.
I can't roll that way
I only go back and watch games at later dates for scouting purposes. I always always ALWAYS check results because I can’t take it. I just don’t have it in me to avoid the results and then watch it after it’s already been completed.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
I watch all games on DVR (to skip the commercials and intermissions). but once I know the score, I can’t watch
I am the most humble blogger of all time
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Sep 6, 2011 9:57 AM MDT up reply actions
but once I know the score, I can’t watch
Same here. I had such a hard time when I went to Kings games all the time because they’ll announce the scores of all the other NHL games that night during the 2nd intermission. I’d have to do the earmuff/lalalala routine.
August sucks.
by Cheryl Bradley on Sep 6, 2011 10:01 AM MDT up reply actions
Ditto
When in San Jose, I got very good at being able to watch games on TiVo. I almost prefer to start watching a game about 45 minutes late so I can skip commercials. This allows me to then catch up to live with about 1/2 the third period.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Sep 6, 2011 10:33 AM MDT up reply actions
I do the same thing. But when there are CHL games here in KC they start at 7. When I get home at around 10pm, I usually buzz through the commercials and intermission stuff and can make it to bed before midnight. Convenient since the Avs game usually starts at 8 pm Central. I hate it when they play the Pacific teams. Makes it hard to get up before 6 to get to work in the morning.
by Go Avs and Mavs on Sep 6, 2011 4:03 PM MDT up reply actions
Not just you, but does knowing the outcome of games prevent you from watching classics?
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
yes. I really can’t watch classic games if I know the outcomes.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Sep 6, 2011 2:32 PM MDT up reply actions
I like to watch the really old ones (like in B&W), but I’m really torn on this one. Same day? Can’t watch if I know the score. Ten years later and know the score? Yeah, I can usually watch that. Don’t know why.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink
to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and
sticks when they've invented the lighter?
I don’t know if it’s a rights thing, but I wish Altitude would air classic Avs games. There are so many games from 95-03 that if shown now, I’d gladly watch because I wouldn’t remember how the game turned out.
4th biggest pessimist of MHH.
"There's always next season." -- Jimmy Howard on not winning the Calder Trophy.
Too Long Didn’t Read. I had to ask a couple of times on that one.
August sucks.
by Cheryl Bradley on Sep 6, 2011 8:25 AM MDT up reply actions
Yup, I learned that one because you asked a few times what it was.
It's all about the A-
by Sandie Gauthier on Sep 6, 2011 9:45 AM MDT up reply actions
I totally know what that means.
I'll keep this brief.
by Dario on Sep 6, 2011 10:44 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
I’d just like to take a second to thank everyone that is taking part in the Avalanche Rountable. The rountable discussions are a lot of fun, and I’m thankful you’re all participating. Thanks!
Check out my girlfriends business at www.AllyBStudio.com
As grandma always says, Fuck the Red Wings, indeed.
glad to hear it. these are a lot of fun.
I am the most humble blogger of all time
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Sep 6, 2011 7:51 AM MDT up reply actions
They really are.
It's all about the A-
by Sandie Gauthier on Sep 6, 2011 9:45 AM MDT up reply actions
I agree with Geoff’s statement about games starting an hour later. I’m in Eastern Standard time and for me games start late enough. I already walk through work like a zombie on days after half the games anyway, an hour later would kill me.
Check out my girlfriends business at www.AllyBStudio.com
As grandma always says, Fuck the Red Wings, indeed.
i’m with anyone who didnt out us in the pacific. I cant take those late starts man
LANDESKOG!!!!!
How Swede it is
I’m in the Pacific time zone, and it’s hard for me to get up at 4:30 the next morning to go to work. If I lived on the East coast I’d have to have a nap between work and the games.
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
Footer: We'll miss seeing you clear the riff raff off your lawn.
About having Florida in the west...
I get Dater’s sentiment and I’m sure he was just joking but… suggesting an organization that already has financial issues add on even more unnecessary travel costs is absurd
"You're eyes can deceive you, don't trust them" Obi-Wan
Also to say Florida doesn’t give a hoot because they are all transplanets, I hope Dater was refering to the team and not the whole state. The Panthers have sucked forEVER!! Also Miami is a horrible sports city anyways. The only sports franchise there that does well is the Heat and well thats a no brainer as to why. If he was refering to the state as a whole though; well Dater, you are a bigger moron then anyone could have imagined. Just take a look at the attendance numbers for the Lightning for any proof you need.
by Hobbes Hiltz on Sep 6, 2011 10:31 PM MDT up reply actions
I like the idea of going from 3 divisions down to two. I don’t have any good reason for why I like it, I just do.
Our Johnson is bigger and better than LA's Johnson so suck it.
I think they should go to western and eastern conferences and scrap the divisions. When was the last time you cared about divisional standings? It’s all about the playoffs.
Chip, I'm gonna come at you like a spider monkey!
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Sep 6, 2011 9:39 AM MDT up reply actions
How often do you see a 4 and even a 5 seed better than the 3 seed but because they are leading a shit division they get the better seed.
Our Johnson is bigger and better than LA's Johnson so suck it.
another argument in favor of scrapping the divisions.
Chip, I'm gonna come at you like a spider monkey!
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Sep 6, 2011 10:11 AM MDT up reply actions
I think one of the topics for the round table should be getting rid of the point for overtime losses. I think it is awful that you can be rewarded for almost/not quite winning.
Why don’t we just start handing out participation trophies at the end of the year. Hey you were able to play in 2 games in the NHL this season, good job here is a certificate for your mommy to hang on her wall. How about a bumper sticker as well, “Proud Parent of a NHL participant”.
Our Johnson is bigger and better than LA's Johnson so suck it.
Since I put a lot of time into this question....
here’s my mysteriously omitted explanation: (space schmace, DDC)
(for reference, my plan created two divisions per conference)
The schedule would shake down like this. All teams in the league would play each other at least once. Within the Western conference, teams would play each other 4 times. In the East, it would be 3 times each. Finally, each team would play its division rivals 6 times. The season would reduce to 80 games. The post-season brackets would work as it does in the AHL: top 4 within each division would duke it out for top dog. The top teams in each division become the conference finalists.
This isn’t by any means an original idea. In fact, it’s been discussed on this blog as well as many others. It makes the most sense to me for a lot of reasons, the most important of which is the fostering of rivalries. Games between rivals are the most entertaining. Moreover, if you’re going to play that many games within one division, it doesn’t make sense to end the season with those divisions meaning essentially nothing other than the placement of the top 3 seeds. The way these divisions are set up, a few rivalries would be lost or diminished, but others would develop to take their places. As for Colorado’s division, it may not be ideal in terms of divisional foes. Some of the teams are quite boring (* cough * Wild * cough *), and the Avalanche get stuck with a ton of travel miles. However, based on time zones and overall league travel, it’s the best option within this plan. It would also keep the Avs out of the Pacific Division, which is full of teams that always seem to bring the beat down.
August sucks.
my apologies if I omitted it and it definitely wasn’t intentional. re-adding above.
I am the most humble blogger of all time
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Sep 6, 2011 9:23 AM MDT up reply actions
No worries. I’m just giving ya a hard time…cuz I never ever do that to anyone ever.
August sucks.
by Cheryl Bradley on Sep 6, 2011 9:27 AM MDT up reply actions
ever
I am the most humble blogger of all time
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Sep 6, 2011 9:34 AM MDT up reply actions
I edited it so my list was not so ghastly long. No idea why it’s centering the team lists.
August sucks.
by Cheryl Bradley on Sep 6, 2011 9:36 AM MDT up reply actions
Nice job Cheryl. One modification I would suggest would be the reduction down to 80 games. I dont’ think it is a bad idea, but you know owners would never go for even losing one game of revenue (unless you are Florida or a couple of other teams where it is probably a loss of money to play one more Tuesday or Wednesday game).
I would add in a home and away with one team, basically pick your biggest rival outside of your division and do a home and away game with them. Obviously you would have to do some adjustments because some teams are probably big rivals with a few teams.
Our Johnson is bigger and better than LA's Johnson so suck it.
The only reason I went that route was because of math. I considered the added games but wondered how it would be decided who played whom. Easiest plan (esp for the round table experience) was just to reduce.
I hear ya, tho. Players would like it. Owners would not.
August sucks.
by Cheryl Bradley on Sep 6, 2011 10:03 AM MDT up reply actions
Here's a radical idea
Do away with conferences altogether and have 4 divisions.
NE -
Montreal, Buffalo, Boston, Ottawa, Toronto, NYI, NYR, NJD
SE-
Washington,Philly, Pittsburgh, North Carolina, Florida, Tampa, Columbus, Detroit
Midwest
- Chi, Min, St. Louis, Winnipeg, Dallas, Nashville, Colorado
Pacific
SJ, LA, Anh, PHX, Van, Edm, CGY.
Each team plays division rivals 6 times and plays everyone else in a Home & Away. Top 4 teams in each division play in 7 game series in a bracketed playoff, and then the final 4 is always one from each division, seeded by record.
(Here’s where it gets a touch tricky. As mentioned above teams in 8-team divisions would have to play 86 games, as is. So, to drop 4 games, they play 4 intra-division rivals only 5 times, and the other 3 six times. To select those teams take the previous season’s regular season standings and group them as a top and bottom half. They play the other three teams in their half the extra games. Example: NE finishes in this order: Boston, Montreal, Buffalo, NJD, NYR, Toronto, NYI, Ottawa. MTL, BOS, BUF and NJD play each other 6 times while they play TOR, OTT, NYR, & NYI only 5 times.)
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
My one suggestion Jibble would be rather than top 4 in each division, do something like top 2 in each division and then the other 8 are wild cards, simply best remaining records. That way you don’t have some crappy team getting in because they are 4th in a crappy division. Otherwise I think you are on to something brilliant.
Our Johnson is bigger and better than LA's Johnson so suck it.
I’d rather just do the four from the division and let the rivalries flourish. Besides with the schedule being so unbalanced there will be a lot of good teams with worse records.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Sep 6, 2011 10:34 AM MDT up reply actions
Apparently I’m not the only one who doesn’t care about realignment in the least. Thanks, AJ!
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
He only did that because he liked my answer and realized ya’ll might notice if he just copied and pasted. Oh, and cuz he’s a snarky fella.
August sucks.
by Cheryl Bradley on Sep 6, 2011 9:28 AM MDT up reply actions
I got yo back, yo.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
Well, as long as we’re giving the Amway Red Wings something to bitch about; let’s just put them in SE, Winnipeg in Central and move Florida to Hawaii
by chibigodzilla on Sep 6, 2011 8:25 PM MDT up reply actions
Florida issues?
Florida has a lot of financial issues, really? Is that why they gave Tomas Fleischmann $18 million for the next four years?
by Adater on Sep 6, 2011 9:28 AM MDT reply actions 4 recs
lololol but Jose Theodore and Ed Jovanovski were worth every penny!
LANDESKOG!!!!!
How Swede it is
by Cole D Hamilton on Sep 6, 2011 9:36 AM MDT up reply actions
and Brian Campbell
I am the most humble blogger of all time
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Sep 6, 2011 9:42 AM MDT up reply actions
he is a cup winner. I believe that calls for a 6 million dollar per year bonus
LANDESKOG!!!!!
How Swede it is
by Cole D Hamilton on Sep 6, 2011 9:46 AM MDT up reply actions
I lol'd hard
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
Florida is like that idiot that everyone knows whose house is falling apart but he has kick ass rims on his 92 Honda accord.
Chip, I'm gonna come at you like a spider monkey!
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Sep 6, 2011 9:46 AM MDT up reply actions
Oh, do you live in my neighborhood?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
by Muzia on Sep 6, 2011 9:48 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Very funny
but didn’t they pretty much have to overpay mediocre players to get to the cap floor?
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Sep 6, 2011 10:35 AM MDT up reply actions
Yes they did. In their defense, building internally hasn’t worked either. You know, besides acting like a farm club for other teams like Boston.
I'll keep this brief.
Exactly. What happens when your scouts/GM screws up. Can a GM really respond by promising more internal building?
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Sep 6, 2011 10:53 AM MDT up reply actions
I’d like to see it go down to two divisions in each conference. At the end of the season, everyone is looking at top eight anyway, and seldom are all three division winners worthy of the top three seeds.
Also, is travel expense really that big of a deal anymore? I don’t know about private travel like sports teams do, but for us chumps, the price difference between a flight to Detroit and a flight to New York and a flight to Miami vary completely on date and time and often the longer flight can be cheaper than the shorter flight. I see it as more of a PITA problem than anything.
Then there’s this:
AJ Haefele, Mile High Hockey: Leave it as is just so Detroit fans still have something to whine about all the time :D
I’m no math major or philosophy major, but this makes me think of the math problem, what is infinity minus 1?
4th biggest pessimist of MHH.
"There's always next season." -- Jimmy Howard on not winning the Calder Trophy.
I’m with Andi or Jibbles. Simplify the damn thing and make everyone play everyone else. The east coast vs. west coast travel thing is BS and by the time the Avs are up to their 5th or 6th game against Edmonton, Calgary, or Minn., I’m about ready to slit my freakin’ wrists. Six times in the division in the regular season doesn’t foster rivalries. It is boooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiing. And there’s no need for it. Now, six or seven times over the course of two weeks in the playoffs makes rivalries. Save it up for that and in the meantime, let every team see every other enough times to get a sense of them.
totally agree. I should be able to see the Avs in Boston every year
I am the most humble blogger of all time
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Sep 6, 2011 9:48 AM MDT up reply actions
Exactly. Getting rid of the divisions makes a lot of sense from the fan perspective. It means that fans of a team out of conference get to actually see their favorite team play more than what, once every other year?
Sure, it would mean a longer season. Yes, it would mean more travel. But it would be so much simpler and more fan-friendly that I really hope the NHL at least takes a look at it.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who <3s the Avs.
Is it October yet?
Why do we even have divisions?
Chip, I'm gonna come at you like a spider monkey!
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Sep 6, 2011 9:47 AM MDT reply actions
TO DIVIDE US
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
by Muzia on Sep 6, 2011 9:48 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
You're throwin rock today, sir
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
I really don’t like geographic divisions. The Western teams always get screwed on travel. I’d like to see 2 conferences that spanned the continent, without divisions. Top 8 in each go to the playoffs. I’d use Andi D’s conference vs. non-conference regular season format, but would drop 4 non-conference games to keep the current 82 game format. More regular season games would not be an improvement.
"It's all about the $"
Lawn defender since... crap, I can't remember.
Why even have conferences?
One wide-open league: each team plays every other team twice (home-n-home) and half the teams a third time for a total of 77 games. Top sixteen teams go to the playoffs. Easy, elegant, and simple.
by AceODale on Sep 6, 2011 11:16 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Sounds too much like soccer. Next you’ll be calling for relegation and promotion, right? RIGHT?
by Dan Winkler on Sep 6, 2011 3:31 PM MDT up reply actions
It’s impossible given the business model, but I’m all in favor of that.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Sep 6, 2011 3:33 PM MDT up reply actions
Jets Uniforms. Meh
LANDESKOG!!!!!
How Swede it is
by Cole D Hamilton on Sep 6, 2011 10:45 AM MDT reply actions
I think they’re okay.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
“okay”
exactly. just a big meh for me. Its CBJ/STL/PIT/BUFF 2.0. Dark Blue with stripes on the bottom and a circle logo. Do something different
LANDESKOG!!!!!
How Swede it is
by Cole D Hamilton on Sep 6, 2011 11:09 AM MDT up reply actions
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Sep 6, 2011 11:12 AM MDT up reply actions
i love those honestly
LANDESKOG!!!!!
How Swede it is
by Cole D Hamilton on Sep 6, 2011 11:15 AM MDT up reply actions
They look like chain gang convicts.
August sucks.
by Cheryl Bradley on Sep 6, 2011 11:40 AM MDT up reply actions
agreed
The darks aren’t too bad, but I’m thinking we don’t really have room to criticize
August sucks.
by Cheryl Bradley on Sep 6, 2011 10:48 AM MDT up reply actions
Nothing says “Triumphant return of Hockey in the frozen North” like mediocre 2nd-rate St. Louis jerseys with a dash of Team Canada!!
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
They just look like the took the symbol they came out with a few weeks ago…threw darts at a color, tossed the symbol on…the end
Stabilize your rear deflectors, watch for enemy fighters.
I appreciate the jersey in one regard: the colors as classic and traditional, not modern and edgy.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
Agree. Like the logos much better than the actual unis.
by Dan Winkler on Sep 6, 2011 3:32 PM MDT up reply actions
Can I ask why do we need three divisions per conference. I think Beachie is spot on in the alignment. Have two divisions, winners get top positions. If we need to have three divisions then Angelique has a very good point. I vote for Beachie though.
Odd numbers. You can’t divide 15 by two and get even delineation of teams. Unless we all agree that Columbus and Florida aren’t real teams then you have four 7-team divisions and two fictional opponents.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
Define fictional opponent. The Minnesota Wild supposedly play “hockey” and they have a bunch of “games” against the Avalanche. I can never recall actual hockey from those games so are they fictional?
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
by c6hor8 on Sep 6, 2011 12:27 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
That makes more sense. Wow, hockey is complicated.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
You must be the Florida Panthers GM! Pleased to meet you!
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Please to meet you too. Would you like to play for us? I can only offer you a 6-year, 23 million dollar contract though…
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
I have this lung condition, you see…will that impact your contract offer?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
If it’s very serious I can offer you a 4-year 18 million dollar contract so that suits your condition better.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
Here’s the thing, though. I could literally die on the ice at any time. I’ll take your money, but make sure to warn your fans they could see a dead man skating. Okay?
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
Are you Tyler Arnason? Because if so, I’d increase the contract to an even $20 million/4 years.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
Here's my radical plan for today...
NHL Season: 45 Games (mainly played on weekends in three game series, much like college hockey +1 more game per weekend.)
The Great North Division: Vancouver, Seattle (from Phoenix), Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg
The Wild West Division: San Jose, LA, Anaheim, Colorado, Minneaota
The Great Divide Division: Detroit, Columbus, Chicago, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh
The Southern Frontier Division: Tampa, Carolina, Nashville, St. Louis, Dallas
The Northern Rivals Division: Quebec (from Florida), Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Hamilton (Expansion)
The Patriots Division: Washigton, NJ, NYI, NYR, Boston, Boston
-31 Teams in my “New NHL” spread out over 6 Divisions.
- Each team will play each Divsional opponent twice (Home and Away). A three game series will be played on the weekends.
- Teams will schedule series against 3-5 additional opponents from any other division.
- There will be small tournaments, similar to college hockey, held around the midway point in the season. These games count toward the teams overall record.
-Playoffs: Top 2 teams from each division will play a best of 5 series to determine who wins the division. The 6 winners will play in a double elimination tournament in two brackets, seeded by overall season record. Top 2 teams play for the Stanley Cup in a best of 7 Series.
Colorado College Hockey, Colorado Avalanche, Colorado Rockies fan to the death.
"If you can't accept losing, You can't win." -Vince Lombardi
But then the offseason would be 6 months long and the month of August would be 4 months long. I just cannot approve.
For baseball on the other hand I am all for a 45 game season, but I would want games played Tuesday thru Thursday with start times at noon.
Our Johnson is bigger and better than LA's Johnson so suck it.
Where do these moron's come from?
http://www.mc79hockey.com/?p=3809
Evidently, the NHL is some how legally allowed to not only police a privately owned stadium but also add security to a public municipal street of the city of Vancouver? The guy thinks the NHL should be liable for a situation they could not legally prevent taking place in public.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
Puck daddy had a decent article about the City of Vancouver trying to blame the NHL for the riots. They even pointed out that all the riots in the last 5 years have been in Canandian cities. So maybe the solution would be to just take professional hockey away from Canada.
Our Johnson is bigger and better than LA's Johnson so suck it.
I think they’ve proven they can’t handle the pressure of playoff hockey in Canada. On the ice or outside the stadium.
The prosecution calls only one witness: Toronto Maple Leaf fans.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
My prediction
Winnipeg to the Central, Columbus to the SE.
This would represent the least amount of change, and would be time-zone driven, which means television-friendly, which means $ to the NHL. I think they care more about growing ratings and tv revenue than they do reducing travel expenditures.
No soup for you!
I actually like the ideas with 14 teams in the west, and 16 in the east. it matches population better, it evens out travel more, and it would lead to more balanced schedules. I like a 4 division setup like:
West
Pacific:
VAN SJ LA ANA CAL EDM PHX
Central:
COL MIN WIN CHI DAL NAS STL
East
North:
MTL OTT TOR DET CBJ BOS BUF PIT
Atlantic:
NYR NYI NJD CAR TBL FLA WAS PHI
sure, it’s a little more difficult to make the playoffs in the east, but they also get less travel.
So, just because a team is based in an East Coast city with a larger population that team and its players are therefore punished by competing with to more teams than their Western counterparts?
The amount of travel should in no way coordinate to playoff chances. I would bet there is not a single team who wouldn’t travel more to have a better chance at the playoffs.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
*two
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
there’s a lot of reasons it makes sense to do it this way:
as you say, the east gets less travel, the west gets better playoff odds. baseball already does it in the AL/NL, and it’s even worse with a 4 team division and a 6 team one. i think it’s actually pretty equitable.
as I said, the balance in schedules is way better, which will again lead to better TV ratings and gate revenue (no more wild 6 times a year, amirite).
time zones match up WAY better for coverage, leading to better ratings and more revenue.
when the NHL inevitably expands to Vegas, no huge realignment needed. they hit the pacific, done.
I know it’s a little off on the competitive balance, but I promise you that won’t be the driving motivation behind realignment. Money will be, and this makes sense in that regard. won’t stop the east coast teams from wailing about it, but them’s the breaks. the west has gotten screwed on competitive balance with travel for years. it’s only a +7% chance of making the playoffs for the west teams anyways, pretty small.
Balance in the schedule does not matter when it comes down the simple fact that there are 30 teams competing for one trophy. At the start of the season every single team has an equal chance. Some teams, by virtue of their location, have a harder travel schedule regardless of how you realign the divisions.
Revenues, ratings, and coverage should not in any way dictate the division make up. Sure, revenue can dictate who plays in the Winter Classic or which teams are on NBC, but it should not change the divisions.
I don’t think the +7% chance makes a difference. Even if it was lower, it should not matter.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
At the start of the season every single team has an equal chance.
no they don’t. there’s 100 things that matter more, as jibble pointed out. Vancouver has a much better chance of making the playoffs thanks to the division they’re in, and Anaheim less with their division, for example. you’d have to make everyone play the exact same schedule to achieve such partiy. even if you remove on ice play from the mix, west teams are already at a disadvantage with greater travel.
it’s not all equal even now. the league cares about money, not competitive balance (unless it interferes with their money making). this change is a drop in the bucket of competitive imbalance, and adds lots of good things for the league, teams, and us as fans.
I agree things matter more, but adjusting the division structure I think is asinine as it unfairly punishes and rewards teams purely on a geographical basis.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
If every team were equal and play only affected by randomness, in a 15/15 setup the chances of making the playoffs is 53.3%, in a 16 team conference it’s 50% (57% in a 14 team conference).
It’s really not that big of a swing, and in all reality there’s 100 things that make a bigger difference.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Sep 6, 2011 2:25 PM MDT up reply actions
I don’t think it matters if the numbers are even closer than that. I do not think it’s fair to punish teams for being geographically closer.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
They are already punished for being geographically further away (travel). And they are punished for which geographic market they are in. And in reality teams out west are punished for being out west, where less people see them, so therefore less people buy merchandise, and therefore less marketing budget.
And let’s not mention the geographic difference that happens because some teams are in Canada and some are in America.
Geography affects teams chances, it’s just how it is.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Sep 6, 2011 2:53 PM MDT up reply actions
Geography affects teams chances, it’s just how it is.
I am glad you can just declare things as true. Vancouver has an atrocious travel schedule and they made the Finals. San Jose had a bad one and they made the playoffs. The Islanders have an easy one and they didn’t.
I am not arguing these as pure counter evidence but I am not convinced travel does make a difference in such a way that team with more travel should be given some sort of playoff birth affirmative action.
And in reality teams out west are punished for being out west, where less people see them, so therefore less people buy merchandise, and therefore less marketing budget.
So because an owner owns a team in a more remote area where the population is lower and they can’t get as much revenue as Chicago or New York, they should get a better chance at the playoff. If revenue matters, adjust the revenue sharing, not the make up of the entire playoff structure.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
he’s not saying increased travel STOPS teams from making the finals or whatever, merely that it lowers their chances (and increases it for those with less travel).
it’s not about the subsidy for the teams that travel more, that’s merely a side conversation on equitability. the reduced equitability is a downside, no doubt. but the benefit in the balanced schedule, the time zone alignment for TV and gate revenue both is huge, and outweighs the cons of some slight competitive imbalance — some of which already exists anyways.
I am glad you can just declare things as true. Vancouver has an atrocious travel schedule and they made the Finals. San Jose had a bad one and they made the playoffs. The Islanders have an easy one and they didn’t.
Well obviously it’s not the only thing, but it is a disadvantage, however small. but that’s kind of the point. the overwhelming biggest factor in making the playoffs is player talent. Teams are already rewarded on a geographic basis, and you will never get rid of that. Ever. It’s based on population, local economy, distance, etc.
right now I’d argue that Columbus and Nashville being in the West unfairly punishes both of them based on Geography. Columbus in particular. they are a 3 hour drive from Pittsburgh. Yet they rarely get the benefits of playing the team they should be rivals with. Nashville would be able to build a better fan base if they were consistently playing teams from the south. fits in a lot better with Dallas, Tampa, Florida, etc… yet plays in the Central.
So yeah a 16/14 does, sort of punish, teams for being in one place over another, but that’s life in professional sports.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Sep 6, 2011 3:12 PM MDT up reply actions
So yeah a 16/14 does, sort of punish, teams for being in one place over another, but that’s life in professional sports.
So let’s make a change that has a downside and that downside can be chalked up to and protected by “life in professional sports” while keeping it the way it is is cannot use that defense.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
So the argument is going to go like this? I don’t agree with change for changes sake or change that is unneeded. At not point did I mentioned “never”. Please don’t start the Hawerchuck line of argument here where you extrapolate everything.
In this particular instance, I don’t think the change is needed nor have I seen proof that the West is hurt enough to prompt this change.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
You don’t think teams like Columbus and Nashville are individually hurt by being in the West conference yet located in the east. For that matter, Dallas in the Pacific division is hurting them probably more than any other team.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Sep 6, 2011 3:21 PM MDT up reply actions
Hurt how exactly?
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
Columbus, Nashville and Dallas (and Detroit, but their the exception that proves the rule) because they continually play in places and, more importantly, time zones that make it difficult to build their fan base. And one thing all three franchises desperately need to stay competitive is to build their fanbase.
Columbus plays 29 games every season in time zones that are later than theirs. Ask anyone on the east coast, it’s hard watching the Avs even when they start just 2 time zones later. For a relatively new team that is trying to build a fan base… that’s a severe hindrance.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Sep 6, 2011 3:27 PM MDT up reply actions
I know Jibs, I am on the East Coast.
I agree that Columbus and Nashville can be hurt in that regard which I why I am in favor of a 1 for 1 realignment. So really the injury comes to teams who play games at later times and their fan base cannot watch on TV? That is the argument here? That is actually a legitimate argument but I have another solution to throw out there: have all PST game start an hour earlier for EST and see if that props up viewership.
That might solve it without changing everything.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
have all PST game start an hour earlier for EST and see if that props up viewership.
As someone who lived in the PST recently, That’s just about impossible. It was very difficult to make it home from work then to a Sharks game by gametime anyways. It’s a lot to ask the home fans to accommodate the visiting teams (and even more unfair to the West coast teams)
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Sep 6, 2011 3:32 PM MDT up reply actions
And what about the fans in the Pacific time zone trying to get to games after work? Starting games at 6 or 6:30 would make it really tough to sell out the arena. It also lessens the time between morning skate and game time.
The boards are up. The glass is in place. The ice is waiting.
by Cheryl Bradley on Sep 6, 2011 3:33 PM MDT up reply actions
Thank you. That proves my point. No bloody way does that help, but there are other solutions here that don’t change the fabric of the divisions.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
but those other solutions, while not ripping the fabric of the divisions (whatever that means) have more downside to the fans.
And the fabric of the divisions was ripped when they dropped the names of the Smythe, Adams, etc… that horse is already out of the barn.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Sep 6, 2011 3:36 PM MDT up reply actions
Well I am glad we have turned to mockery. I agree the name changes were bad for the tradition of the league and just because it happened once, I don’t think it should happen again. Just because one horse is out of the barn, that does not mean we should let the others out.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
I’m not mocking it. I have no idea what you mean by “the fabric of the divisions”. What does that even mean? Divisions are just teams that play more games together because they are closer geographically.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Sep 6, 2011 3:42 PM MDT up reply actions
I had a much more vitriol response originally, but I really meant the organization of the divisions: specifically the symmetry among the conferences, the general attempt a geographic similarity, and the numerical parity.
The phrase “fabric of the…” is used often legally to mean the fundamental make-up of a regulation, law, constitutional idea, etc.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
I agree with them, it was not meant as a serious suggestion.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
I offered some upsides beside geography in my scenario above. It’s essentially the same as doc’s with the exception of which division you’ll find the Rangers, Islanders, Penguins and BJs.
I also recall numerous articles on the subject that advocated a 16-14 split. I will see if I can track them down.
The boards are up. The glass is in place. The ice is waiting.
by Cheryl Bradley on Sep 6, 2011 3:45 PM MDT up reply actions
I don’t dislike your idea nor doctors, I just don’t think changing the division numbers is a good idea.
I wonder if this is partially due to us being on different coasts and I wonder how many East Coast hockey fans, smart ones I mean, would be in favor of it. It just seems like a quick and dirty fix that will create issue where there might be a more nuanced fix.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
Well, I’m in CO, so I’m not at all concerned about time zones personally. I understand those concerns, however, having lived in CA.
That said, I don’t think it’s a quick fix at all. I think it’s something that would take some serious planning to make happen. It took me a good hour to look at how to split the teams, how to design the schedule, and what to do with the playoffs, and I was just answering a question for a blog.
The boards are up. The glass is in place. The ice is waiting.
by Cheryl Bradley on Sep 6, 2011 3:54 PM MDT up reply actions
no one seemed to interested in this, but i did look for that solution using my nerd powers: http://www.milehighhockey.com/2011/5/12/2168004/winnipeg-thrashers-division-re-alignment#67363014
TLDR: with the current makeup of divisions and time zones, there’s not a better way. you can get slightly better in terms of total distance traveled, but the inequitablility is still 99% of before, and the EST teams in the west get screwed still.
the only answer to fix the time zone and unequal distance issues is a new divisional system. that’s proof right there. :)
Understandable.
That was a shit ton of info to read.
The boards are up. The glass is in place. The ice is waiting.
by Cheryl Bradley on Sep 6, 2011 3:52 PM MDT up reply actions
Here are a couple that discuss it:
The boards are up. The glass is in place. The ice is waiting.
by Cheryl Bradley on Sep 6, 2011 3:51 PM MDT up reply actions
well, im glad, because that seems to be your stance in this discussion — total focus on the downside, complete denial of the upside.
there’s already some competitive imbalance. a little extra — pushing the other way, no less — isn’t a big deal. and then we get so many other benefits as fans!
The discussion has been about one particular topic that came from your idea. We have not been talking about other things, only realignment. Jibs love to extrapolate my arguments whenever we step outside the lines of hockey into politics, but this has been a very myopic discussion.
I just don’t see the benefits outweighing the costs.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
im not disagreeing as to the focus — but within this talk on realignment, you are focused on teh downside completely, and you are ignoring the benefits, saying only things like I NEED PROOF THERE’S IMBALANCE IN THE CURRENT SYSTEM or I DON’T SEE THE BENEFITS OUTWEIGHING THE CONS (note lack of support on impact of cons, or lack of benefits, merely statement of opinion).
I think the benefits for fans of teams like Columbus, Nashville and Dallas (who wouldn’t be in the east, but would benefit mightily), and yes Detroit far outweight the minor cost for other fans being in a 16 team conference.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Sep 6, 2011 3:35 PM MDT up reply actions
I don’t. I think it is attempting to solve an issue with broad strokes.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
I really don’t understand your position here. You’ve agreed that a 16/14 split provides soem (albeit small) downside to some teams. You’ve agreed that teams like Columbus and Nashville are at rather large disadvantages based upon their geography, which you’re against. Yet you think it’s a bigger downside to solve the big inequalities by making smaller (and more than likely statistically insignificant) inequalities?
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Sep 6, 2011 3:44 PM MDT up reply actions
As a disclaimer, I don’t have a solution for the issue aside from the standard “move one team East” idea.
I agree team are at a disadvantage, but it’s not large. I agree it “should” be fixed but the 16/14 split is not the way to do it.
The 16/14 split I think might have larger implications. Again, these are hypothetical but what does it do to the salary cap of the West vs. the East? Is one conference prompted to pay more to get players? I see arguments both ways.
My big issue is what you so tactfully call “insignificant”. I do not see it as insignificant in any way. I see it as a rather large change because the Western teams are given an advantage and the Eastern are given a disadvantage and I do not think that is fair just because 3 teams have time zone issues.
You can call it statistically insignificant all you want, but I see it as a significant difference because when it comes down the final spot there is an extra team competing in the East and one fewer team competing in the West.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
Two things:
1. How does it affect the cap? I don’t get that association at all.
2. There are more benefits and reasons behind this change than time zones. In fact, my main motivator was the division rivalry and how it’s pretty much non-existent right now. More rivalries make for better hockey. The four division scenario with the AHL style playoff brackets creates more rivalries. Thus this scenario makes for better hockey.
The boards are up. The glass is in place. The ice is waiting.
by Cheryl Bradley on Sep 6, 2011 4:01 PM MDT up reply actions
The effect on the cap was theoretical. It was a corollary point, but if the change makes it tougher/easier for a team to make the playoffs, that might change players’ desire to go to a team.
I agree 4 divisions is better and personally I like the 7/8 in each idea.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
and since teams with more travel or less fans have less chance of making the playoffs/paying more for players, doesn’t that cap/player issue already exist?
The problems seems to be that the advantage/disadvantage is somewhat easily quantifiable. 7% (and only 3-4% different than it currently is). Based on population? Hard to quantify. Based on travel? really hard to quantify. TV? hard to quantify Fans that pick up the team because they see it more? REALLY hard to quantify
But all significant
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Sep 6, 2011 4:03 PM MDT up reply actions
Jibs, you are missing my point entirely. Doctor gave the number about the probability of making the playoffs and how it changed by adding and subtracting a team. I said that was significant, you said otherwise.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
I understand (although I think that 7% is mitigated significantly by other factors). But that’s the thing it’s impossible to quantify those other factors. If it evened out to ~50/50 would you still be against it?
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Sep 6, 2011 4:40 PM MDT up reply actions
The evening out part scares because we are dealing solely with numbers here which enters the realm of Corsiatti arguments. If all the factor were quantifiable and it evened out to 50/50 my only issue would a scenario like this:
Carolina is on the bubbles in 2010. They are competing with New York for the final spot. They each have a game left. That happens a lot. Now fast forward to the realignment and they are competing now with three teams? Or if they were originally competing with three now it’s four? That might not be so bad for drama and intrigue but taken with Calgary competing with one team instead of two and all of a sudden Calgary has a more probably chance of getting in than Carolina.
That scenario scares me because it could unfairly burden Carolina while aiding Calgary. Of course, Jibs, there are other factors but I can see the realignment furthering a scenario like this.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
If it evened out to 50/50 and your scenario came up, CGY would be getting the benefit for the 14 team conference, but disadvantaged from other, less obvious factors. It’s still 50/50
and the problem is that we aren’t dealing with numbers. We’re dealing with gut feelings on how disadvantaged current teams already are, and how relieving that disadvantage may burden other teams.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Sep 6, 2011 5:23 PM MDT up reply actions
Clearly I want the league to make decisions that only have downsides, and not weigh the potential upsides that may come from it. Which is why I’m still furious they let goalies wear masks.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Sep 6, 2011 3:18 PM MDT up reply actions
I don’t think any team should be punished or rewarded based on geography and there are ways of adjusting the revenue issues jibs mentioned by other means. If the Western team are so unfairly burdened by travel then it makes sense that the East would continually win the Stanley Cup.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
well, since you brought it up...
since 1990: 15 EST champs. 6 all others. yet it’s a roughly a 50-50 split in EST to all other time zones. since 1980 it’s 11 to 20.
i don’t agree that that’s a valid metric for determining this, but if that’s you asked to see…
I agree it’s not valid either, but I have yet to see proof that the West is truly punished is such a way that prompts a change to entire divisional structure.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
but that’s not the reason for this change! you’re totally focusing on the small downside (that already exists to some degree today!) and ignoring all upside.
I don’t see the huge upside though. I see what you and Jibs are calling an upside as nothing more than a new coat of paint.
What happens to the divisions then? Do players want to play in the West more or less? Do the Eastern teams need to spend more now? I think it creates more issues than it fixes.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
If the Western team are so unfairly burdened by travel then it makes sense that the East would continually win the Stanley Cup.
NO. Only if that was the only advantage East teams have, then they would have slightly more cups (which they do, but for entirely different reasons). If you want to get down to small sample size proof like this though, Boston won in seven games against Vancouver, even though Vancouver had a better team by nearly every metric. It could be argued that Boston’s lighter travel schedule over the course of the year led to a slight advantage that paid dividends. (Of course I think something like good ol random chance played a far more significant role, but…)
In fact, the West has had a far superior conference the last 6 years yet cups are 3-3.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Sep 6, 2011 3:16 PM MDT up reply actions
Superior is subjective first off, and those things swing back and forth continually. I was not using Cups as a metric but I have yet to see any real proof that makes this change necessary.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
Superior is subjective first off,
The West has been dominant since the lockout over the East. It’s not that subjective here.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Sep 6, 2011 3:22 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree with you, but I don’t think it’s a universally accepted truth. There are people who argue that the East has more skill, except the Colorado, Detroit, Dallas days I suppose.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
measuring cups is about measuring who has the best team between the conferences, not about who had a higher push on their chances to win across the conference.
Oh I know that (and even best in a seven game series doesn’t necessarily win). But I was going the line of thought…
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Sep 6, 2011 3:22 PM MDT up reply actions
measuring cups is about measuring who has the best team between the conferences, not about who had a higher push on their chances to win across the conference.
I thought it was about checking to see who had the biggest dick?
by Andy_ on Sep 6, 2011 8:30 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nic and Brett have got the best selections
Currently, this is truly the way to go.
Southwest: San Jose, Los Angeles, Anaheim, Phoenix, Colorado
Northwest: Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Minnesota
Central: St Louis, Dallas, Chicago, Nashville, Detroit
Possibly, Nashville goes to the SE instead of Columbus.
But, I really want to put together a Detroit, Columbus, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, and Toronto division, as well as a, Washington, Philadelphia, New Jersey, and both New York teams division. But, I haven’t figured out how everyone else fits together. Maybe when Phoneix moves to Quebec and Hamilton gets a team it will come together.
"Hello, I'm Doctor Worm. Good morning how are you? I'm Doctor Worm. I am not a real doctor but I am a real worm, I am an actual worm". - They Might Be Giants
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This is why AJ is one of my favorite people :D
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by Ovechwin on Sep 6, 2011 6:10 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
so sorry
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by David Driscoll-Carignan on Sep 6, 2011 7:10 PM MDT up reply actions
hahahhaha <3
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
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Here is the answer, 3 conferences with 10 teams, if you want divisions you can have 2 in each of 5 teams. Then you have 4 playoff teams from each conference. Then you have a double elimination tournament with best of 3 series.
Our Johnson is bigger and better than LA's Johnson so suck it.
I kind of like this idea. Let’s kick it around.
"Hello, I'm Doctor Worm. Good morning how are you? I'm Doctor Worm. I am not a real doctor but I am a real worm, I am an actual worm". - They Might Be Giants
"Light the Lamp! Not the Rat!" - Rizzo the Rat
by Light the Lamp on Sep 6, 2011 7:07 PM MDT up reply actions
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