Sacco Poll
by GeorgeInLimbo on Jan 3, 2012 8:06 AM MST
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Just looking for an update on the general opinion of Joe Sacco. There was almost a revolt formed against the Avalanche front office when the team started slipping but the team is beginning to claw there way back into a playoff birth. So what say you now, MHHers? Is the success the team has seen over the past 10-12 games a fluke or is the Colorado Avalanche a team bound for the playoffs once more?
Does Joe Sacco deserve another chance after a dreadful 2011? Anyone have the Avalanche record specifically for the calender year?
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I still think he’d be a great assistant coach as he gets at least half the players on this team to play and move hard. But in all reality I think we could find a better head coach.
Yup...
This
Sacco’s on-ice strategy still leaves a lot to be desired, but he seems to do very well with player motivation. We could do much worse, but there are probably better options out there.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs and writes for Mile High Hockey.
1) Please find an example of something he did, actively, which is an on ice decision that hurt the team and other coaches wouldn’t have done. I fail to see these “strategy gaps”.
2) What other coach? Who else would really be THAT much better than Sacco.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
by c6hor8 on Jan 3, 2012 12:06 PM MST up reply actions 5 recs
Fucking preach
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Jan 3, 2012 9:08 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
As has been pointed out earlier tonight, my sarcasm meter is a little off right now. So please pardon me if these are not serious questions. But I am going to treat them as if they are.
It’s the offensive system that he implements that concerns me. If the opposing team 1) clogs up the neutral zone and 2) forces us into a puck possession game, they’re going to stand a very good chance of winning the game. If the Avs do come up with the win in those cases, more often than not it’s because of hot goaltending or lucky bounces. Sacco’s run-and-gun system works wonders when teams allow us to play that way. However, when it’s clear that the other team has figured out 1) and 2) like most of the teams out West have, it’s like there’s no backup plan strategy-wise except for pray the goalies and defensemen have a good game.
The last LA game is a good example. The Kings are the ones that broke the code on us last year – they know that a physical game with a tight neutral zone would pretty much kill our offense. They only allowed 18 shots on the night, whereas we surrendered 25 and forced Varly to steal the game for us. If not for our blueliners and goalie, that game would have been a blowout because we couldn’t maintain any offensive pressure even on the rare occasions when we got the puck. I have a really hard time arguing that our offensive system is what won us that game when we couldn’t maintain possession and spent the most of our time playing D.
Another example of Sacco’s inflexibility is the Pittsburgh game. The Pens are an Eastern team and didn’t have 1) and 2) figured out in the first, but magically came out of their lockerroom in the 2nd and started clogging up the neutral zone. We didn’t score another goal the rest of the night. Bylsma adjusted when it was clear things weren’t going well for his team. Sacco’s gameplan never changed and our goaltending didn’t bail us out that night. It was a coaching duel. We lost.
I worry Sacco’s a one-trick pony. The Avs may be a great fast-break team, but when they are forced to play a puck-possession game, they don’t do as well. They really haven’t been able to under Sacco’s tenure either, which leads me to question either his ability or desire to teach the puck possession game. Our young guns need to get better at maintaining the puck in their offensive zone if they want to be truly competitive in this league. It may not be the club’s primary “style”, but it’s a skill they need to have so they can switch into it if necessary. I’m just beginning to question if Sacco is the right guy to teach them that style of play.
I’m not saying Sacco’s a bad coach, and I don’t know enough to suggest someone else. All I’m saying is that perhaps a more puck-possession oriented coach brought in either as the new head or as an assistant could really help this team.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs and writes for Mile High Hockey.
by andidee15 on Jan 3, 2012 11:48 PM MST up reply actions 4 recs
Love this comment
I have a hockey segment on Mile High Sports Radio and would love to hear from members of this site. The segment airs on Tuesdays at 5 PM on the Mac and Doog show (AM 1510 or FM 97.3).
I love this comment because I think it is spot on. Sacco is a young coach with potential but there are 2 specific things that concern me about him.
1) In a quote of his, he does not change his style of play. Sacco after the last loss stated “we play the same way” regardless of who we face. This essentially means he has one formula which does not change and if a team figures it out as andidee states occurred in the Pittsburg game he soes not have an answer. Hartley rarely lost when he his (albeit of different talent) team had a lead going into the 3rd period. That was because Hartley did indeed institute a LW lock when going into the 3rd with a lead. Agree or disagree I prefer a coach who coaches and changes with the situation and team he is putting on the ice.
2) I disagree with the way he handled Kyle Quincey when he came back from injury. Quincey was ready to play but remained a healthy scratch for several games. Not putting them in because they were winning is just “superstitious” when he has clearly is was the best available defenseman available. Do you think Quincey will be honest with an injury in the future and is that what he is encouraging. Penalize honesty and you will get dishonesty. My take is that if you are winnning and you can improve the level of player you put on the ice and you will increase your chances of winning.
I do however have one question for andidee. Who are those “young guns” you speak of. We need some gunners. Hopefully Mueller can get healthy and start gunning. Hopefully Stastny can start earning 1/2 of what he is being paid. We do not have a single player in the top 20 in scoring!!!
by Doctor Hockey on Jan 4, 2012 9:04 AM MST up reply actions
Well, “young guns” became a bit of a meme around here after a member posted this photoshop a while back, so it’s just a general way to refer to all of our young players. But I do agree with what you said above – we need more from our young guys. With Dutchy out, Stastny and Galiardi and Jones need to pick up the slack. Hopefully they kick it up a notch and start putting the puck in the back of the net sometime soon.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs and writes for Mile High Hockey.
Challenge accepted.
Teams have been clogging up the neutral zone for ages. This isn’t a tactic done specifically to stop the Avalanche, it’s a tactic done to every team in the NHL. Saying the Avs struggle in a puck possession game seems absurd to me. Have you watched this team play? When they’re playing their best, they’re outworking other teams. We don’t have the talent to just blow teams off the ice. We didn’t draft Gabriel Landeskog because of his supreme skill level. We drafted him because he works his ass off on both ends of the ice and commits himself to playing hard down low and playing physical. That Winnik led the team in ice time for such a long time is further proof that Sacco is rewarding the guys doing the dirty work consistently. Over the last two months, Galiardi and McClement have stepped up their games and have gotten more ice time.
Using the Kings game as an example is extreme sniping. The Avs didn’t play a good hockey game. The PLAYERS didn’t play a good game. That’s going to happen sometimes, especially against a team with as much talent as Los Angeles. They’re more talented than we are, pure and simple. I’m not sure why we’re holding a rare great game by a goalie against the head coach.
Ahhh, yes. The Pittsburgh game. The one everybody loves to point to as prime evidence that Sacco doesn’t belong. I’ve pretty much held my peace about that game but since we INSIST on bringing it up time and time again, screw it. The Pittsburgh game wasn’t on Joe Sacco. It was a young team that had one bad thing turn into three bad things turn into 5 bad things turn into an ugly loss. Why is Milan Hejduk, appointed captain the day before, immune from all criticism when it looked a lot more like a leadership issue on the ice than a coaching issue. For everyone with GCL, go back and watch that game and tell me how Pittsburgh adjusted as the game went on. Tell me what Bylsma did to coach circles around Sacco. Find me those adjustments. You know what you’ll find? The Penguins played better, a young team lost its confidence, and the whole thing caved in on their heads. It wasn’t the first time, either. You know when else it happened?
November 26 against the Oilers. Only that night, the Oilers were the young team that had one bad thing quickly turn into 5 and it all caved in on them. Why is nobody giving Sacco the credit for making Tom Renney his bitch that night? Where are all the mad props for the great adjustments he made going into the third period that sparked a comeback win that night? Nowhere. Why? Because he didn’t do a damn thing differently. The Avs picked it up, imposed their will, and took it to a young Oilers team that was running in quicksand.
I really think some Avs fans need to spend two weeks watching a different hockey team play and tell me what they see. There isn’t a team out there who drastically alters their style from one game to the next simply to tailor to the opponent. There are adjustments they make on a game-to-game basis about general strengths and weaknesses but this isn’t the NFL. You have several games a week, usually with travel in between, and limited practice time. Most teams use that time to work on their issues, not concerning themselves with an abundance of time prepping for the opposing team. You are who you are and you just hope that on any given night that’s good enough to come away with two points.
If you’re worried about him being a one-trick pony, don’t. Shelve the worry right now. Watch some games from two years ago. Watch some from last year. Then watch this year’s team. The counter attack GOGOGOGOGO style is as buttoned up as it’s ever been. The team is playing more defensively responsible as a whole than at any point in Sacco’s tenure and the offense is succeeding more in the dirty areas of the ice more than in the past. This isn’t a team relying ONLY on transition offense to score goals The chaos is much more contained. We’re winning in more ways than we have in the last two seasons. Go back and watch the goals scored recently. You’ll find a very healthy mix of transition goals, grinding goals, and special teams goals. Which brings me to my next point.
For all the inflexibility Sacco has (and I am in no way arguing it doesn’t exist. I’m not blind), he has been fluid with the PP unit this year. Yes the dump and chase was a frustrating period to go through but he adapted and changed. No, he didn’t do it after one game but that’s probably because he doesn’t post on internet message boards and expect instant results out of everything. He gives things time to see if they work out. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it bites him in the ass. Coaching is hard. He’s the same guy who moved Duchene to the point on the PP, which hopefully everyone can agree was an excellent move and really helped kick start the PP. When Duchene went down, he immediately adapted and moved towards more of an umbrella with Elliott on the point, something we all can also hopefully agree is an excellent move.
I know I’m going to come off sounding like Sacco is the greatest coach ever omg but I don’t at all feel that way. It frustrates me when I look up on the board at Pepsi Center and see a mostly invisible Landeskog with 19 minutes of ice time and is leading all forwards. It also frustrates me when people criticize his on-ice strategy and fail to answer the question that was originally asked. At least you aren’t still going on about his lack of emotion with referees.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Jan 4, 2012 10:13 AM MST up reply actions 6 recs
ugh
It wasn’t the last time, either*. So dumb, AJ.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Jan 4, 2012 10:15 AM MST up reply actions
YEAH MORON LEARN HOW 2 TIPE
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
SRY OKAY
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Jan 4, 2012 10:25 AM MST up reply actions
Absofreakin’lutely. It ain’t that I love Sacco. This is a young team that’s still learning things. Sacco has changed strategy several times this year. He’s not just a coach stuck in a block of ice.
You do have to remember that the guys on the other end of the ice are trying to win, too. It’s a really long season. Sometimes the other guys are going to win.
Honestly, I was starting to lean towards the Fire Sacco bandwagon in Nov., because the team needed something to get them out of the funk, not because of Sacco per se. Now that they are out of the funk, can we just enjoy the winning for a while?
Nice Post
A.J. I am not saying that we should fire Sacco at this point in time. I just disagree with his inflexability and his failure to always go with the best players. Like the young team I think he has a learning curve. I love what the AVS did in acquiring the 2 new goaltenders. I love the move away from smurf defenders. This is the first moves that Sherman has made that I think are good. I however think we should have done more to keep the likes of Fleishman despite his uncertaointy healthwise. He was creating magic with Hejduk. We are overpaying Stats…why not bring in some talent up front after losing the likes of Fleishman (even if we have to overpay) if you are not going to resign him. Until he went down we were in the mix last year.
I just do not understand why this team lingers at the bottome of the cap. (I have just changed the subject. I learned this trick from my mom). This is what irks me most. This team needs more veteran presence and I would love to see them get agressive wither in the offseason or at the deadline if we are in the mix.
BTW, Tom Gilbert went down last night. How many are aware that he was our prospect traded for Tommy Salo who gave us a whopping 8 games.
I would love to hear form you on Tuesday at 5PM (1510 AM, 97.3 FM Call 303-297-1510)
by Doctor Hockey on Jan 4, 2012 10:55 AM MST up reply actions
BTW, Tom Gilbert went down last night. How many are aware that he was our prospect traded for Tommy Salo who gave us a whopping 8 games.
Waaaay the fuck too many of us are acutely aware of same.
2011-2012 Lokomotiv Yaroslavl: Vyechnaya Pamyat!
2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: Chances are rapidly diminishing that this will not suck.
I think I have a 1500 rant on it somewhere on teh interwebs of Hockey’s Future back in the day. One of the Avs worst trades for a guy they never intended to use nor keep. If Abby got pulled in the playoffs the team wasn’t going to recover so Salo was overpaid insurance for insurance they didn’t need to begin with. Don’t get me started….
I'll keep this brief.
Yeah
Most of us who have been around these parts have lamented that trade multiple times. Tommy Salo ffffffff
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
You’ve been saving that one for how long now?
2011-2012 Lokomotiv Yaroslavl: Vyechnaya Pamyat!
2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: Chances are rapidly diminishing that this will not suck.
especially happy to do it to me :(
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
you guys are adorable, never break up!
"You're only as good as your coach wants you to be." - Bob Probert
Well
It’s hard to be at the man who brought me porn to flip through all throughout training camp
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
Uh...mad at*
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
Andie, I am still waiting for a specific instance where Sacco could have done something better “on-ice”. Broad generalization about two games are just that. I really would like a specific example so we can analyze whether he is truly lacking in the coaching department.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
and 2) forces us into a puck possession game
I think Sacco has been trying to get the team to buy-in to a puck possession strategy for the past year. It’s only in the last month that the team has actually attempted to implement it. When half the team is trying to run and gun and the other half is trying to play possession, you don’t get much success (see Jan-Apr 2011). When everyone is working from the same playbook, it’s different. So, how did we do in December? Against the Western Conference in December?
The last LA game is a good example.
Disagree. In the LA game, the team played patiently against a bigger and more talented team. It was the Avs who were playing defensive hockey, and got the opportunistic goal to send the game to OT/SO. Varly was awesome, no doubt, but the rest of the team played to the game plan (my opinion).
Another example of Sacco’s inflexibility is the Pittsburgh game
The Pittsburgh game was in the middle of the October/November swoon. Half the boys were still trying to run and gun like they did during the East Coast road trip and it wasn’t working. Pittsburgh is more talented and disciplined than most teams, and they did what their coach asked once they saw that running with the Avs was a recipe for disaster. The Avs continued to try their run and gun and it failed. I don’t put that on Sacco. I think it was on the players.
In the past 12 games I’ve seen more cycling and high-low work along the boards than I saw all of last season. The guys are buying in and are now having success. Could someone else have implemented this more quickly? I don’t know. Remember, Sacco is working with a bunch of kids. O’Reilly’s success all year might have been because he was able to convince Landy and Winnik/Hejduk to play to the coach’s plan. Duchene loves to run and gun, and it took moving him to Stastny’s wing to get him to play possession. Again, this is my opinion.
I think it’s time to give Sacco the benefit of the doubt now that he has the guys playing his way.
OK Shermie, time to be the shepherd
by Busted Twigg on Jan 4, 2012 10:00 PM MST up reply actions
Your Take on the LA game.
Your take on the LA game that the AVs were the patient team is ludicrous. The AVS were outplayed for 2 full periods and if it were not for some luckey breaks (a couple of cross bars) and Varley standing on his head the score could have been 4-0 by the third. Varley stole one and that is wonderful…but we are thin in the top 6. That being said our defense and goaltending needs to step up ;so that we begin to yield fewer goals per game. (I guess that is redundant).
It is nice to be winning games without scoring 3 goals because last year we needed to score at least 4 to have any kind of chance.
by Doctor Hockey on Jan 5, 2012 2:01 PM MST up reply actions
“Ludicrous” is a big word to throw around like that. “Accurate” would be better. Jarret Stoll who, you know, actually played in the game, said the Avs “were waiting.”
The defense and goaltending have indeed stepped up. Have you been watching the games lately?
by DiD on Jan 5, 2012 2:52 PM MST up reply actions
I also voted yes both then and now.
Duchene may be the face of this franchise, but O’Reilly is the heart. - Guitarpick8120
Mile High Hockey
The Hockey Writers
I’m voting no. He should have been fired after last season and he should have been fired earlier in the season. How can I say that after the Avs have climbed back into the playoff race with good play? Because I’ll only change my tune if the Avs actually make the playoffs, and I fully expect another vintage Sacco prolonged rut to eventually come along and kill all hope of making the playoffs (I hope I’m wrong).
After this season it’s not a question of firing Sacco… it’s whether or not to resign him. I’m having trouble thinking of an argument for resigning him that doesn’t involve an acceptance and contentment with mediocrity.
I fully expect another vintage Sacco prolonged rut to eventually come along
Vintage? So it happened once and therefore it’s a vintage characteristic? So everything I do is vintage me? That’s absolutely absurd.
How many injuries would have been enough for him to not take the blame of that rut at the end of the season? 400? 500? 1 million?
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
by c6hor8 on Jan 3, 2012 12:10 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I’m not denying any of these factors. What this boils down to is a difference of opinion over exactly what factors have contributed to the teams recent bout with mediocrity. I hold firm that coaching is one of many factors. IMO youth, payroll and injuries doesn’t explain away the team wide funks, (losing streaks, performing exceptionally poorly against divisional opponents), inconsistency, etc. I’ll just agree to disagree with those of you who feel coaching has had nothing to do with it. I’ll also agree to disagree with the notion that when the team plays well it’s the coach making good of a crappy dealt hand and when the team falters it’s because there’s nothing a coach can possibly do given the situation.
I’ll just agree to disagree with those of you who feel coaching has had nothing to do with it.
I don’t recall anyone saying that.
Duchene may be the face of this franchise, but O’Reilly is the heart. - Guitarpick8120
Mile High Hockey
The Hockey Writers
by Cheryl Bradley on Jan 3, 2012 9:29 PM MST up reply actions
Perhaps I surmised incorrectly, but when I write that the prolonged funks are a characteristic of Sacco’s coaching and the responses are “How many injuries would have been enough for him to not take the blame”, “The fact that we are youngest team with the lowest payroll in the league. Does it say anything to you?”, the implication is the responders find it absurd that coaching might be considered to be one of the root causes of these funks. And why would they find it so absurd to the point they are apparently assuming I have not even considered these other factors, if they in fact didn’t believe coaching had nothing to do with it?
Coaching has nothing to do with our payroll and youth of the team. Both is the result of cheapness/strategy of the upper echelon of the management. Sacco can do nothing about it. Judging by our current talent, Sacco should be considered a very good coach if we end up somewhere around 15th in the NHL.
The fact that we are youngest team with the lowest payroll in the league. Does it say anything to you?
by Ilkinio on Jan 3, 2012 12:23 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
From MayorsManor.com and Jared Stoll:
On Colorado’s overall pressure – "They were waiting, but they’re smart. They work hard, they still battle. You can tell they’re a very well coached team. They think out there and they’re a fast team out there. They get on you and when they sense a turnover or sense a bad pass, they’re right there pressing up. They’re a tough team to play. They’re well balanced up front with hard working guys and their D are steady. They’re playing well right now and they’re missing, arguably, their best player in Matt Duchene.
Laughter and tears are both responses to frustration and exhaustion. I myself prefer to laugh, since there is less cleaning up to do afterward. - Kv
by MalachiConstant on Jan 3, 2012 3:02 PM MST reply actions 5 recs
What the fuck does Jared Stoll know about it? He was probably just saying that to explain how his team lost a game that they dominated. Or maybe he expects to possibly play for Sacco one day, and just wanted to get on his good side.
by DiD on Jan 3, 2012 3:48 PM MST up reply actions
Part of me thinks that I’ve never seen a player or coach say a team was poorly coached, so I sort of agree.
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
Yeah, aren’t hockey players kind of notorious for being bland interviews?
by Andrew_in_Seattle on Jan 3, 2012 9:52 PM MST up reply actions
I imagine Jared Stoll knows more about it than you or I anyway. It wasn’t just a snippet he gave, the quote was part of a fairly long interview. Seemed pretty well thought out to me. Then again, what the fuck do I know about it?
Laughter and tears are both responses to frustration and exhaustion. I myself prefer to laugh, since there is less cleaning up to do afterward. - Kv
by MalachiConstant on Jan 4, 2012 7:52 AM MST up reply actions
Or
maybe it’s because the Avs are actually well coached and Stoll was impressed by the team so he thought it necessary to make a point of saying that since they were beaten two nights ago, but then again that would mean Sacco isn’t the worst coach of all time.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
I was joking, and I was waiting to see how people could marginalize a player’s own words, which they did.
by DiD on Jan 4, 2012 9:54 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I started to suspect, given the “just wanted to get on his good side” comment. My caffeine-fulled sarcasm meter was apparently running on fumes this morning.
Also, your subtle sarcasm traps are sly, devious, malicious and poignant. I like it.
Laughter and tears are both responses to frustration and exhaustion. I myself prefer to laugh, since there is less cleaning up to do afterward. - Kv
by MalachiConstant on Jan 4, 2012 10:01 AM MST up reply actions
great find
Duchene may be the face of this franchise, but O’Reilly is the heart. - Guitarpick8120
Mile High Hockey
The Hockey Writers
by Cheryl Bradley on Jan 3, 2012 3:59 PM MST up reply actions
I voted yes because this would be a horrible time to fire him.
by Pinchy The Lobster on Jan 3, 2012 10:45 PM MST reply actions
I voted no, I think he’s an average coach, he makes some good decisions, but he seems to be inflexible. He loves his grinders, perhaps more than his skill players. He’s a solid C to C+ coach. There are guys out there who are better.
Peter McNabb thinks I'm outstanding.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jan 4, 2012 9:46 AM MST reply actions
For the record, I don’t hink Sacco was the right hire back in 2009. So I recognize my own bias in that I’ve never really bought in to him from the start when basically he became a backup plan when Roy fell through. I didn’t like him then because for the most part he was still a rookie for the most part as a coach. He had two years as an assistant in the AHL with a bad Lowell team. He then was a head coach for only two years with the Monsters, who were equally as bad. Yet, he was given a head coaching job in the NHL over many guys with a better history of success and who had paid many more dues. Fundamentally that bugs the crap out of me. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Not much. Bottom line is, I was a Sacco skeptic from the start. That’s a personal bias.
Joe Sacco, no matter what anyone says is still learning how to coach. He’s not coached a team through more than a single round of the playoffs. He’s simply not had enough experience as a coach to know how to deal with success. He has never coached, nor assisted under a coach that could demonstrate how to navigate the roads to said success. So, in my opinion Sacco is still developing as a coach and doing it on the job.
He’s a newer coach, coaching the youngest team in the NHL. Is the team ready to let him develop as a coach while he’s in charge of players who are also trying to develop and learn how to consistantly win? I’m not sure becase I’m not sure Sacco has the ability to foster and coach in a winning environment. We’ve seen his teams get hot and then fade. We’ve seen his teams go through some amazingly poor stretches. In the last ten games or so we’ve seen a team that’s tightened up their defense and evolve. Will Sacco ever have three regulation wins in a row? I think he probably will with the right statistical regression to the mean…er I mean luck and more importantly, as he learns to get better as a coach.
I’ve been called out recently for my stance on making a change at coach. I totally understand why. Sacco is really well thought of by his players. Guys like O’Bryne have uttered phrases like ’he’s the best coach I’ve ever had’. Sacco is what a lot of us wanted in a no nonsence coach that demands results unlike the “player’s coach” prior to him in Granato. He’s all business.
Jibbles wrote on his blog that after the Varley trade it was clear that the Avalanche had “cast the die”. No more rebuilding. I agreed and still do agree with his analysis. When the Avalanche made a move for Varley and delt those picks, they were sending a pretty clear signal that the window for playoff/winning hockey just got moved up; IE, the time is now. To me, it’s a race against time for a guy like Sacco to learn how to coach a winning team and players like (well the whole team outside of Hejduk and Jiggy) to learn the same thing.
I think Sacco is a good coach and I’m encouraged that he’s shown signs of improving. He’s shown some progressive tendancies whereas previously he was pretty rigid with his systems. I think a coach that’s demonstrated some experience with winning teams would accelerate this whole process. It is my opinion that because Sacco has to grow concurrently to the team’s growth that they aren’t were they could be. So that’s why I think there are better coaches available for this team.
Oh and for the record I hope Sacco leads the Avalanche in to the playoffs and shocks the world when the Avs get there. I want to be wrong.
I'll keep this brief.
by Dario on Jan 4, 2012 12:21 PM MST reply actions 3 recs
This is very different than calling for his firing based on barmecidal instances of bad on-ice strategy failures.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
by c6hor8 on Jan 4, 2012 12:57 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Right. I’m also not going to base my opinion on a 10 game window of losses nor wins. Since the Avs did not let him go prior to the trade lockout prior to the holiday season and this winning streak; I’m sure Sacco stays for the rest of this season regardless of the record. So with that in mind I see very little reason to dwell on it until the off season.
I'll keep this brief.
Jibbles wrote on his blog that after the Varley trade it was clear that the Avalanche had "cast the die". No more rebuilding. I agreed and still do agree with his analysis. When the Avalanche made a move for Varley and delt those picks, they were sending a pretty clear signal that the window for playoff/winning hockey just got moved up; IE, the time is now.
Here (along with the basic question in the poll, above) is where we differ. I’m going to repeat myself. The Avs drafted Semyon Varlamov in the first round of the 2012 draft to be their long term #1 goalie. In the second round, they drafted 5 years of minor league and NHL development, and a whole year of play in net for the Avs. There was nothing about this trade that signaled the end of the rebuild. The Avs filled the biggest hole in their roster and did it in a way that would help them this season and into the future. Adding Jiggy was a perfect complement. Yay Sherman! Now, go get a full-time goalie coach (or two).
Some of Sacco’s moves have been less than transparent. I think he’s finally got the team to play in a consistent style. I think the reason that Jones got dumped to the 4th line after ringing up goals during the East Coast swing is that he refused to play the way Sacco wanted him to play. We’ve seen more possession during the December run than we have in more than a year, and when the whole team is playing disciplined hockey, they have success. Way to go Joe!
OK Shermie, time to be the shepherd
by Busted Twigg on Jan 4, 2012 10:21 PM MST up reply actions 4 recs
We deffinately differ here. I think Avalanche management disagrees with you as well considering that everyone in the organization considered Varlamov the goaltender of now, not three years from now. At least, that’s what they repeatedly have said (including Jiggy).
So you think the rebuild is still on going? You believe Varlamov was a three year project when they have Pickard in the system? If they wanted to wait a couple of years to start competing they could have just waited. I think categorizing Varley as a long term project is a sematical justification for how he’s developed so far. In my opinion there’s no way the Avs traded for Varley and beleived he would be really ready in a few years as a number one. Convienient to say now, but certainly not then.
I'll keep this brief.
I agree with Dario that I doubt that Sacco’s the right guy for this team, but I agree with Twiggy that the Avs essentially used the 1st to draft a starting keeper and the 2nd to fast forward that keeper’s development to the present.
Is Varly playing like that No. 1 franchise keeper? Against LAK on Monday, hells yes. During appreciable portions of the early season? Hell no. Is the organ-I-zation appropriately protecting and nurturing its investment? As Justin so clearly elucidated on Mike’s behalf, hell no. That’s gotta change – now.
2011-2012 Lokomotiv Yaroslavl: Vyechnaya Pamyat!
2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: Chances are rapidly diminishing that this will not suck.
But how could Avs management believe the rebuild is over and then not do a serious thing to try to address the weakness in the top 6?
Thus, the frustration. As you know we’ve all looked at $, inflating the ability levels of key guys, injuries etc… No idea why they didn’t. Although, it’s been a repeated theme for many years now. They’ve relied on Wolski, Svatos, Arnason, Hensick and Stoa. They’ve picked up guys like Tucker and put him on a line with Sakic and thought that was going to work. They just picked up Kobasew and Lindstrom and thought they could plug them in the top six. If they rely on Hishon they are making a big mistake because until a guy shows he’s a top six guy….he isn’t.
I'll keep this brief.
Management will do nothing that pulls them off the salary floor until they absolutely have to leave. Next year with all of the contracts expiring, I think the time has come. If they are going to have to spend off the floor, does it make sense that they would try to create a buzz in town that gets butts in the seats, and generates enough revenue to pay these contracts? One way to generate buzz is to pick up a big free agent or two.
I see next year like this: The Avs are set at center and goal. Defense is in OK shape, but could get better, and maybe will organically as Johnson, Quincey, Wilson, and Elliott mature. Barrie may be ready and Siemens won’t be too far behind. Wings are weak, but could get better with some free agent spending. I could see one star caliber wing and a top-sixer to fill the void opposite Duchene and Landeskog.
If the Avs make the playoffs this year, imagine what they might do if they fill the last glaring hole in the roster.
Now, about Sacco… Is he a Stanley Cup winner? I don’t know. I do know he’s done a fair job with a rag-tag roster up until now. If we do make the playoffs this year, I think he’s earned an opportunity to coach a complete roster.
OK Shermie, time to be the shepherd
I think Sacco has improved VERY much this year. He seems to be making adjustments more but not hitting the panic button too quickly. He has a good balance of patience and whatever the opposite of that is, heh. I think he is making the adjustments at the right time this year and I think much of this teams success can be given to him. He had to adjust to a basically new blueline, and not only new, but players that are opposite of the style he is used to. We lost JML, Cumiskey, and Shatty, and in return got EJ, SOB and Hejda. Completely different styles and he has fit them into a system that isn’t as much “run and gun” this year. He has also helped Hejda and even SOB and Wilson become more comfortable offensively (This is purely an assumption but this system is not exactly the same as it was 3 years ago, albeit similar he had to adjust his system to the players he had). This post was extremely scatterbrained, so thank you for those who chose to sift through it.
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
slow your roll just a bit. He’s also the same coach that oversaw a large losing streaks in addition to the latest winning streak. He’s got big holes in his coaching game if you ask me, but I do think he’s making slow strides improving his coaching.
I mean, this is the same coach that started training camp, preseason and the start of the regular season with a fixed lineup he never altered. For example, on the very first day of training camp and EVERY scrimmage throughout camp Sacco had Lindstrom, Stastny and Jones skate together on a line. It was line he drew it up on paper and just kept it. He did the same thing with Duke, Duchene and Mueller as well as O’Reilly, Landy and Winnick. I thought that was a pretty rigid way to start the season and I think it stalled the team when Mules and Lindstrom didn’t work out. But, I do agree that he’s improved as a coach as the year has moved along. His PP mixed things up instead of doing the same dump in from the left point and other changes (could be Deader there but I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt!). I don’t think he’s vastly improved in to Scotty Bowman overnight here. No one does really. If Sacco gets this team to win some more games in regulation and do it over division opponents then you may lure me to your dark side. Still skeptical until then.
I'll keep this brief.
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