Will The Avalanche Be Buyers, Sellers, or Idle At The NHL Trade Deadline?
by Derek B on Jan 30, 2012 3:00 PM MST
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The NHL trade deadline is nearly four weeks away and ever since the new Collective Bargaining Agreement the Avs strategy has shifted considerably when it comes to deadline deals. Back in the "good ol' days", the Avs roster was so stacked it generally only needed a piece here or there to make a serious run into the Stanley Cup Playoffs. Probably one of the most famous trade was the one which brought Ray Bourque to the Denver and landed the Hall of Fame defenseman his first and only Stanley Cup in his illustrious NHL career.
As you all know, with the introduction of the salary cap, those days are long gone. Some believe the salary cap is the primary reason the Avalanche have had such a hard fall from grace. Not being able to buy superstars at the deadline and make that push at the end of the season and win a championship. While I do think this has had something to do with our mediocre, at best, team it's not the main reason.
Ever since his retirement the Avalanche have been looking for that "go to guy" in net. The team has had some great goaltending since Roy, but nothing near the caliber of a Patrick Roy. We thought we had something in the neighborhood when the team signed Craig Anderson back on July 1, 2009. Turns out we didn't.
If you go back and look at the rosters of our team from the first season until the lockout, you could literally fill half of an All-Star team roster with the players in Burgundy and Blue. They all couldn't play forever no matter how much we wished they could. I really feel the team actually started it's decline following 2002-03, Patrick Roy's last season with the Avs. All of those years with trading away draft picks was going to come back and haunt us. It wasn't entirely known, at the time, to what extent though.
On July 1, 2011 Avs GM Greg Sherman did something the Avs had only done once (2008 to bring back Adam Foote) since the lockout, trade away a first round draft pick. This time he traded it to the Washington Capitals for goalie Semyon Varlamov. To this day some people think the Avs paid too steep a price for the unproven Russian net minder. Especially with goalies, only time will tell whether the Avs "won" in this deal. In the mean time, it appears that most people's fear of the Avs' 1st round pick being a lottery pick (top 5) will not happen.
This brings us to this year's trade deadline. The Avs currently sit in 9th place, just one point behind Northwest Division rival Minnesota. The playoffs are obviously well within reach, but does the front office of the Avs feel they are one, maybe two players away from making a serious run in the playoffs? Do they realize this team is literally packed to the rafters with young talent that should only need a couple years, at most, to really mature? Are they willing to jettison some of the team's overpaid talent *COUGH* Paul Stastny *COUGH* to get more draft picks, or more young talent? Over the next few weeks one thing is for sure, the rumor mill be turning at full speed.
What do you think the Avs should do? Trade some draft picks to make a serious run at the Cup? Continue to build for the future? Or hold what we've got and continue to build with the draft picks we have now?
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Feb 27th, it changes slightly some years
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 3:29 PM MST up reply actions
Trade away players to get more draft picks, including a 1st round pick this year.
I see what you did there.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jan 30, 2012 3:24 PM MST reply actions
Gabriel Landeskog
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jan 30, 2012 3:34 PM MST reply actions 2 recs
Math… hurts….
Go Avs.
Go Blues.
by Tony Trujillo on Jan 30, 2012 5:02 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
As does reading, apparently. Even I understood the article – and easily, too – and stats have always been tough for me.
Duchene may be the face of this franchise, but O’Reilly is the heart. - Guitarpick8120
Mile High Hockey - Asst. Editor
The Hockey Writers - Avalanche Correspondent
by Cheryl Bradley on Jan 31, 2012 2:08 PM MST up reply actions
thoughts
“Rebuilding” is over for the Avs, they really should go for it, at least to a degree. They are fairly set at center with sos, dutchy, and radar. Even if duchene plays wing they are okay there, esp. top 2 lines. They don’t have a pick in first rd next year and even then that guy likely a few years away from major contribution if they pick say 15th area. They have a ton of cap space too which is a huge advantage. I think at trade deadline something along the lines (insert similar players, etc. if you wish) of trading quincey/hejda for a top 6 winger type with some experience and grit would make a lot of sense. They can replace quincey via FA class imo rather easily and have barrie/siemens coming (and oh yeah cheryl- gaunce!). They need to make the playoffs and get the fan base reved up or they will not sell season tickets for next year, so basically any salary they add (if they make playoffs) is a wash anyway with revenue from palyoffs and hopefuilly additional season tix they sell.
More importantly than trade deadline they need to make a splash in FA market in off-season, whether that’s Parise, Suter we will see. They get Parise alone, the team changes drastically with a very good top 2 lines. They do need another top 4 d-man tho and I would rather have Suter than Parise, he would log huge minutes and make the d-core lots better.
Beating a dead horse but Malone would be nice to have, we need net presence and size up front.
All that said, I think thye won’t
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 3:40 PM MST reply actions
Why do you like Malone so much?
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
LW, 6’4", 220lbs. Scored 38pts in 54 games last year and 20+ goals in each of previous 3 years. Would be huge on PP as a stand in front guy, can forecheck and when playoffs role around those big guys are a force. We have very little size up front, esp. ones who can score.
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 3:54 PM MST up reply actions
Age 32
He plays on the PP with Stamkos, St. Louis, and Lecavalier.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
true but we have a shitload of cap space so we can get him for very little imo. Ideas on other guys we can get without giving up current guys or too much?
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 3:59 PM MST up reply actions
Cap space is better spent than on Malone. Let’s first see it spent on Duchene, Johnson, Mueller, etc. Then look at the team and judge what wingers fit. Then assess the market and see what’s there and what is worth the price.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
I agree with you but so get whitney for a 4th
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 4:04 PM MST up reply actions
Why would they let him go for a 4th? This is not hfboards. Logically, we have to sit in the other GM’s shoes and say 1) why trade and if so 2) how much to ask?
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
they may be out of playoff picture, are def. rebuilding, the franchise is in chaos, he’s 39. that’s why
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 4:10 PM MST up reply actions
He’s 39. The defense rests.
But also..he won’t be bringing a cup to Denver this year and won’t be part of the plan going forward.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
but, he has more goals and pts than anyone on avs and he would be a good rental for a 4th to try to help us make playoffs. Not saying to give up anything more than a 4th or porter
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 4:13 PM MST up reply actions
How do yo know he’s obtainable for a 4th?
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
I don’t, I’m just saying I would find out. I can’t really see a team giving up say a 2nd for him as a rental so that’s why I said maybe a 4th. I’m telling you, they need to try to make the playoffs this year. The fan base needs that imo. this bullshit of never-ending rebuilding is a joke.
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 4:27 PM MST up reply actions
this bullshit of never-ending rebuilding is a joke.
Three seasons of re-building, three seasons (and in one of those they actually made the playoffs).
It’s not like we are the Florida Panthers, or the Columbus Blue Jackets. If the Avs don’t go after some wingers in FA, if they continue to hump the cap floor after this season, then maybe you have reason to be upset.
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
Footer: We'll miss seeing you clear the riff raff off your lawn.
by Americanario on Jan 30, 2012 7:34 PM MST up reply actions
I actually agree with you. Except about Malone, seems like he’ll be decent, but it’s not like a 4th liner who adds 7 minutes a night is this teams missing piece.
Would like to see them bring in a winger (Grabovski, Ruutu, or, god wish, Parise). I’m ok with dealing away either Barrie or Elliott for one of them.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jan 30, 2012 5:01 PM MST up reply actions
Thought you meant our rookie malone, not Ryan, wouldn’t mind Ryan
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jan 30, 2012 5:02 PM MST up reply actions
He doesn’t produce enough for that cap #, but he’s not too bad, it would depend on what the avs gave up for him though.
Peter McNabb thinks I'm outstanding.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jan 30, 2012 5:03 PM MST up reply actions
that’s the whole point, we have soo much money to spend we can overpay a little and from TB’s perspective they dump salary as a primary motivation so don’t think he would demand too much, i.e.- none of our core current guys. Most competive teams can’t take his cap hit either.
Jussi scares me b/c we have enough finesse type forwards, we need a PF type like Hartnell, Neal, etc. that’s so obvious when watching this team. They get pinned down all the time b/c they don’t fucking smash somebody and we also need a nasty net crasher who can score. Almost all the top teams have nice PF types, look at Benn, he can only do what he does b/c of his size. Even Malkin is who he is b/c of size.
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 5:07 PM MST up reply actions
I’ll believe the avs will spend money on players when the avs actually spend some money on players and not before hand.
Peter McNabb thinks I'm outstanding.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jan 30, 2012 5:09 PM MST up reply actions
As Dixo was saying too, a PF may let Stastny move to his more natural (IMO) passer role instead of in front of the net, which may help see his point totals go up.
We all agree the Avs need a top-6 winger, I’m pretty ok with any of the nes I listed, or Malone. I’m not worried about too much overpayment.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jan 30, 2012 5:11 PM MST up reply actions
that’s a lot of the reason Stas has shit stats, he needs wings who can get open and shoot. He lost stewart and jones has sucked, it’s not a coincidence he has struggled.
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 5:35 PM MST up reply actions
That being said, he is quite a few lucky bounces away from having 5 more goals (at least). He does play well in front of the net
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 5:37 PM MST up reply actions
how many posts you think malkin has hit but still leads the league in scoring. That’s the thing with stas, he’s not the greatest scorer in the world. Corey Perry or Bobby Ryan bury those chances.
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 5:44 PM MST up reply actions
I think he’s a few lucky bounces away from having 5-10 more assists.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jan 30, 2012 5:45 PM MST up reply actions
still ,he’s a passer. He’ll never score 40 goals, not his game. Wish he had Bobby Ryan and Perry to pass to!
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 5:54 PM MST up reply actions
Agree. He could be a 25g 55 assist player though.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jan 30, 2012 6:19 PM MST up reply actions
late to the conversation, but good lord, malone’s contract is terrible. 4.5m for the 3 years AFTER this one. He’s already falling apart too, and his production is declining.
I like Malone, and I’d be all over it if it was a shorter or cheaper contract, but everyone knew that deal was going to be bad for the TBL at some point when they did it. That time is now. I see no reason to be the team that bails them out.
also, it looks like Carter may be on the move but I can’t see any scenario we can get him without giving up the farm.
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 3:42 PM MST reply actions
they won’t get that much for him with that contract.
Peter McNabb thinks I'm outstanding.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jan 30, 2012 4:14 PM MST up reply actions
got to disagree a lot there, what I’ve read is they will get lots. wish you were correct, b/c then avs might have a shot
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 4:16 PM MST up reply actions
Personal opinion, but given the way that Carter has laid a statistical egg this year, coupled with his gargantuan contract (10 – TEN more years at $5.27M per) is going to make him well nigh impossible to move unless CBJ is willing to fire sale him.
2011-2012 Lokomotiv Yaroslavl: Vyechnaya Pamyat!
2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: Chances are rapidly diminishing that this will not suck.
Varlamov
The jury is still out but IMO at this point it’s a bad deal in the sense they could have got a very good proven forward for their 1st and a 2nd this year. I’m sure of that.
Hope varly turns it up in 2nd half but one thing is clear, he needs a full time goalie coach. How much can that possibly cost? 200K? I’m pretty sure that would be worth the investment based on what they gave up for him.
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 3:45 PM MST reply actions
very good proven forward for their 1st and a 2nd this year.
Who? That would not get Parise, or Nash, or Ryan.
I’m sure of that.
Let’s not talk in hyperbole. No one has any idea what that gets. If the Avs’ 1st in not a lottery pick, that barely sniffs a top liner.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
going into the year the Avs were expected to be in lottery, so a lottery pick and a 2nd might have gotten us a nice player but maybe not those guys. Maybe the 1st, 2nd and quincey or barrie would have though and I would have thrown one of them in for one of those guys.
All I can say is I would feel a lot better if we could have gotten varly for say two 2nds.
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 3:56 PM MST up reply actions
Hold on.
going into the year the Avs were expected BY THE FANS to be in lottery, so a lottery pick AS JUDGED BY THE FANS NOT GMS
Do you know how McPhee assesses the Avs? I don’t. You don’t. Washington’s fans don’t. If I had my guess, I would say he judges the team higher than “experts” based on his comments regarding the trade.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
I thought he basically bragged that he fleeced us? not sure you are correct there. The pundits had Avs as lottery pick team, they finished 2nd to last in league last year?
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 4:05 PM MST up reply actions
Are you saying the experts are right? I was saying that you have no idea how McPhee judges the Avs.
And I am not incorrect. What he said is that he didn’t expect to get that much for Varly. He was being a showman and bragging, but he never said “lottery pick” or top 5 pick, he just said a 1st rounder. It could be 1 or 30.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
why you heff be so mad? it’s just game
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 4:09 PM MST up reply actions
Because every day I have to work in a realm of protecting against speculation. If people speculate, I need to make sure that it’s rational, compliant, and probable. I am taught to see flaws and how they guide flawed conclusions.
The assumption here is that McPhee thought he was getting a lottery pick. He didn’t. there is not way to know that. He did know for sure he was getting a 1st rounder back for what he used to draft Varly and a 2nd on top of that.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
It’s HUMongous
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
Footer: We'll miss seeing you clear the riff raff off your lawn.
by Americanario on Jan 30, 2012 7:58 PM MST up reply actions
And two summers ago most experts had the Avs in the 9th spot in the West. They finished 14th. This year they predicted 14th and they are 9th in the West.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
So what you’re saying is as soon as we can get some pundits to opine that they’re a mortal lock for last place, we should start planning the parade?
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
It seems that way.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
Wait no. They have to predict the Avs will win it one year, then the next predict they’ll be 30th.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
But that would mean going from 30th to 1st and that’s inconceivable.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
One fan in particular was so confident the Avs would land in the lottery, specifically the bottom 6, that he bet 50 THOUSAND DOLLARS on it!
They’re not setting the world on fire, but I like their odds of finishing higher than 25th place.
when I predicted they would finish bottom 3 in west last year I didn’t hear from you? no guts, no glory
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 4:57 PM MST up reply actions
I don’t remember what you said about last year’s predictions, I was too busy winning MHH’s preseason prediction contest.
So don’t talk to me about last year’s predictions, junior. Just worry about this year.
by DiD on Jan 30, 2012 5:03 PM MST up reply actions 3 recs
Did you win that? I know I didn’t, I had them making the playoffs. Felt pretty good about that until about late december as I remember.
Peter McNabb thinks I'm outstanding.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jan 30, 2012 5:04 PM MST up reply actions
you predicted a 2nd to last finish? where’s your optimism!
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 5:09 PM MST up reply actions
He’s too old to have optimism. Having been alive during the Great Depression will do that to you.
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
Footer: We'll miss seeing you clear the riff raff off your lawn.
by Americanario on Jan 30, 2012 8:00 PM MST up reply actions
My grandparents were alive for the depression, they’re more optimistic than Dan. I think Dan is still bitter about being cold during the Civil War.
The reason I'm in town, in case you're wondering, is because of a Kansas City Shuffle.
I’m guessing he was even more pissed of at being forced to be civil during the Cold War.
OK Shermie, time to be the shepherd
by Busted Twigg on Jan 30, 2012 8:32 PM MST up reply actions
I’m with cool breeze on this one, I realize there’s a healthy dose of hindsight bias in this one, but that 1st rounder would be really handy right now trying to get a winger. Not having it really puts us at a trade disadvantage, IMO.
LEt’s just say I don’t think we can get Parise without it
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jan 30, 2012 5:04 PM MST up reply actions
good thing about him is there’s a CHANCE (like 1%) he becomes an UFA so we get him for just money
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 5:11 PM MST up reply actions
If they don’t trade him away at the deadline, he’ll get traded right before UFA to a team that intends to sign him, that’s best possible case for the Avs IMO.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jan 30, 2012 5:12 PM MST up reply actions
A la Christian Ehrhoff
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 5:13 PM MST up reply actions
yep, and if we pay him 7M a year (vs say 6M if that’s the market) who else can afford that? there’s not many teams. If we overpay 3-4M over 4 years who cares? we will still be under cap. If you look at capgeek and predict the signings coming up, we should still have lots of space.
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 5:22 PM MST up reply actions
I can’t believe I find myself in such agreement with you. That’s a first.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jan 30, 2012 5:28 PM MST up reply actions
I did a fan post not to long back where I used the entire salary cap to build a team. We could actually pay Parise 7.8 million and pick up a D or another expensive winger in the 6 million dollar range. While still being a couple million under the cap and resigning everyone this year w/raises.
assuming that there are expensive wingers or D that fit our system out there (Semin does not).
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 8:06 PM MST up reply actions
I’d be shocked if the avs ‘over pay’ for anyone, it’s just not the Walmart way.
Peter McNabb thinks I'm outstanding.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jan 30, 2012 8:28 PM MST up reply actions
Darius Kasparitus says hi.
2011-2012 Lokomotiv Yaroslavl: Vyechnaya Pamyat!
2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: Chances are rapidly diminishing that this will not suck.
Was before Enos’ time right?
Peter McNabb thinks I'm outstanding.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jan 30, 2012 9:38 PM MST up reply actions
Nope. 01-02. PL at the helm and Eno$ in the stateroom.
2011-2012 Lokomotiv Yaroslavl: Vyechnaya Pamyat!
2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: Chances are rapidly diminishing that this will not suck.
pre-lockout though….the lockout changed how Eno$ handles his wallet.
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
Footer: We'll miss seeing you clear the riff raff off your lawn.
by Americanario on Jan 31, 2012 7:53 AM MST up reply actions
Avs are right in that 10-15 area for their 1st round pick they gave up.
2000
Nederost was picked at 14. That same year Yakubov was picked at 10.
2001
Kobario was picked 14. Same year Fredrik Sjöström at 11, Hemsky at 13.
2002
Nystrom, Semin, Higgins, Niinimaki (not a goaltender) were forwards picked in that range.
2003
Kostitsyn, Jessiman!, Carter, Brown, Nilsson. Crazy draft though. Getzlaf 19, Parise 17, Kesler 23 and Richards 24. Insane.
2004
Tukonen, Rudalov, Nokelainen, Stafford ..yuk
2005
Kopitar, Staal, Zagrapan, O’Marra
2006
Frolik, Little, Tlusty, Grabner
Point being, the 10-15 range in the draft offers few guarantees. Less than 50/50 those guys make the NHL generally.
I'll keep this brief.
I totally agree with you that’s why I said if other teams believed it was a lottery pick we may have gotten a really good player. The top 6-8 guys are a huge jump over middle of 1st rd. T
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 4:08 PM MST up reply actions
I had Yakubov and Niinimaki on my fantasy team for a few years. I took a flyer on Zagrapan this year. I had a delicious Rudalov (which is a doughy, semi-sour Russion delicacy) for lunch yesterday.*
*Ha ha, no not really, I’m just making fun of Dario for OBVIOUSLY MAKING THESE NAMES UP!
by DiD on Jan 30, 2012 4:56 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Best move for Sherman is to manage another Hannan for Fleishman kind of deal at the trade deadline.
I can’t see the Avs dealing for a major asset as they don’t really have a lot they can afford to give up outside of Stastny. I don’t know if Duchene is ready to be a top center. Probably a safer play to not deal him.
I'll keep this brief.
It’s really up to Sacco, Sherman, and Sakic to assess whether Stastny can regain his form. I imagine they think he will and there is not reason to sell low in a financial sense if they can have him play well next year and sell higher.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
I agree, they would be selling from a postion of weakness right now imo.
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 3:57 PM MST up reply actions
How about a sell on Duchene. He’s played like crap this season. If all we’re doing is taking this season into account, he’s got to be expendable, and he’ll bring an excellent return based on the love he gets from the MSM.
OK Shermie, time to be the shepherd
by Busted Twigg on Jan 30, 2012 7:23 PM MST up reply actions
I don't see much happening
ITT: the cool breeze talks to himself
At exactly what point do you start to realize that life without knowledge is death in disguise?
by SteveHouse on Jan 30, 2012 3:56 PM MST via Android app reply actions
it’s always an intelligent conversation :)
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 4:00 PM MST up reply actions
I don’t think the Avs are one, or even two pieces away from contending. I say stand pat or do a lil bit of sum sellin.
Small defencemen? What small defencemen?
by ljp78 on Jan 30, 2012 3:59 PM MST via mobile reply actions
If they went for it and someone got suter and parise then I would say they are right there, otherwise I think they need more too. They have zilch coming unless they sign FA’s though and everybody keeps forgetting that. If they have same roster next year, development alone of younger guys won’t get us there so how else do we get better. Spend to the cap Enos, you cheap Son-a-bitch
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 4:03 PM MST up reply actions
Nobody is getting either of those guys at the deadline. The Preds are in (and will continue to be in) the playoffs hunt in a very difficult division and NJ is on the cusp. Unless they have a ‘10-’11 Avalanche nosedive, they’ll be keeping Parise until Draft Day.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
Mike, both of those guys are FA’s after the season. I’m not saying anything about getting them at trade deadline, we have no chance at that. Sign them in summer as FA’s.
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 4:28 PM MST up reply actions
NJD are on the verge of bankruptcy. They’re also on the outside edge of the playoffs. I think the dealing of Parise will depend on where the Devils are at the deadline. If they are top-6, they keep him, if they are 8 or 9, I think they deal for the best package of prospects and picks they can get.
I know I’ve been one of the loudest saying that Parise will never hit the market, but NJ is in serious financial difficulty. They’ll drop Brodeur after this year, and Salvadore and/or Foster. Maybe that’s enough to keep Parise at his new salary, but they seriously need to drop more than they sign this off-season or they’re in deep doo-doo.
OK Shermie, time to be the shepherd
by Busted Twigg on Jan 30, 2012 7:33 PM MST up reply actions
check out this article
written a couple months ago about the NJD
http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2011/11/04/new-jersey-devils-appear-headed-for-bankruptcy/
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 8:03 PM MST up reply actions
From the payroll perspective, the biggest problem the Devils have is that 8 of their top 11 biggest salaries are on the books for next year already. If they want to shed salary, they have quite a bit coming off the books with guys like Parise, Salvadore, Foster, and Brodeur as UFAs. I could see Parise looking at the Devils roster next year, seeing that there’s no way the team can be successful with their current commitments and financial disaster, and saying screw it.
The Avs need to have their checkbook out and a demonstrated commitment to making the playoffs. They could demonstrate that commitment by acquiring a top-6 free agent wing right at the deadline and making a decent offer for Parise’s rights. Even if they don’t get him at the deadline, they’ll show they’re ready to make the next step with a young and talented team. It might be enough to get him to come West in the offseason.
Here’s hoping, but breath is not even close to being held.
OK Shermie, time to be the shepherd
by Busted Twigg on Jan 30, 2012 8:29 PM MST up reply actions
great summary
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 8:34 PM MST up reply actions
1. If the Avs trade Paul Stastny they need to get a top half of the first round to make it worth it to me. They would have to pull something off like the Flyers did for Carter. I know this has been brought up before but Carter’s career PPG currently sits at .73 with 17 points this season while Stastny’s is at .88 with 30 this season.
2. If they trade Stastny they MUST go after a big time free agent. I’m talking Parise, Suter, Doan (if Phoenix moves and he doesn’t re-sign with the Las Vegas Thunder-Cats.) I think they should do this even if they keep Stastny but if they move him and lose out on any major Free Agents it would be despicable
3. I think Kyle Quincey is a candidate to be moved with Tim Gleason’s shiny new contract.
by Do Not Feed the Octopus on Jan 30, 2012 4:19 PM MST reply actions
Sacco already referred to Quincey as part of the core.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
no way Jose, he’s on his way out if anybody is.
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 4:30 PM MST up reply actions
Yea but is Sacco part of the core?
by Do Not Feed the Octopus on Jan 30, 2012 4:30 PM MST up reply actions
no, he is on last year of contract and if they don’t make the playoffs, bye-bye. I got 100 on that with anybody.
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 4:36 PM MST up reply actions
Done. The finishe 9th and he stays.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
If they finish below 11th I think he's gone.
10th or higher, I think he stays
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jan 30, 2012 5:35 PM MST up reply actions
I’m fine with that even tho he sucks but only if they fire Sherm and sell the team.
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 5:37 PM MST up reply actions
I think this off season will tell us a lot about what KSE and Sherman want/can do with this team. I’m alright with waiting to clean house.
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 5:38 PM MST up reply actions
there’s no question, there’s nothing to wait for? they spend money or not, that simple.
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 5:42 PM MST up reply actions
How much do you want them to spend, total cap number for next year, gimme a guestimate.
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 5:43 PM MST up reply actions
60M, the thing about the cap that wrecks their rebuilding argument is that say this year they sign Ryder for 3M/year for TWO years. If by then they are ready to make a run, they are not tied to him anymore. So, this year for example they could be muich better (and still way under cap) if they would have signed Ryder and say Cole
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 5:48 PM MST up reply actions
It may not be possible for them to sign 60 million dollars worth of players without severely overpaying for some superstar (which may not even be a possibility if none of them go on the market).
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 5:52 PM MST up reply actions
that’s true but the only reason to worry about the cap is if you get pinned down with lots of long TERM, bad deals. If you give Sakic a 5 year deal you can feel pretty good about that. Becuase of their drafting, etc. they have nothing in minors so for Avs even one guy (who would have zero bearing) who could score from the wing (ryder has 18-19 goals) would help this team so much. You have to remember that if we drafted a 1st next year who played you have to still pay them so they don’t have that money concern. We are hugging the cap floor so another 5-6M for players for this year and maybe next 2 wouldn’t affect us at all (still have space to sign our core) except for tightwad would have to spend his wif’es inherited, blood money on hockey instead of criminals, I mean the Nuggets.
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 6:01 PM MST up reply actions
While I don’t think they’ll hug the cap floor they won’t go $$ like 60.
Peter McNabb thinks I'm outstanding.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jan 30, 2012 8:32 PM MST up reply actions
There’s the guy I’m used to disagreeing with
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jan 30, 2012 5:45 PM MST up reply actions
ah back to normal, feels good, doesn’t it?
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 5:47 PM MST up reply actions
send me the money and if I’m wrong I’ll send it back with another hundo
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 6:13 PM MST up reply actions
They are not going to be much, if any better, next year unless they sign FA’s, period. We have nothing in the minors who will make an impact next year, esp. at forward. Stoa, Hishon, please.
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 4:35 PM MST up reply actions
1. If the Avs trade Paul Stastny they need to get a [similarly sized contract in return to even hit the cap floor].
Fixed that for ya.
by c0nquistad0rian on Jan 30, 2012 5:56 PM MST up reply actions
which is why I think they won’t trade anyone away at the deadline
Peter McNabb thinks I'm outstanding.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jan 30, 2012 8:33 PM MST up reply actions
I guess this thread assumes trade deadline but if I am gm and going to deal him, I do it at the draft so it is more of a fixed return. They would probably have to take salary back in either situation
by Do Not Feed the Octopus on Jan 30, 2012 10:12 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Actually, they probably wouldn’t. That stuff is all pro rated, and with the number of guys the avs have used, and the fact that there wouldn’t be a lot of the season left, plus they will be giving raises out next season, they really wouldn’t have to get that much salary back. I don’t think they’ll trade stats, but of course I’ve been wrong before.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan Kenobi
O'Reilly works harder than you
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Honestly? The avs will be buyers, if they’re at the same place or better in the standings, but they won’t be players, maybe they pick up a veteran who’s going to be a FA this summer just to give the guys a boost, but there won’t be any roster remakes. If they nosedive I still don’t see them selling off pieces, mostly because they’d need to take salary back.
Peter McNabb thinks I'm outstanding.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jan 30, 2012 4:37 PM MST reply actions
Well, probably something akin to that, he’s too slow for this team but the avs window for winning the cup hasn’t really even opened yet, so no reason to mortgage the future on anything. Any pieces going out there has to be salary coming back, so even if they did trade quincey or stastny, the salary coming back probably wouldn’t make and talent that it would pick up worth wile. Maybe they pick up a ray whitney type. I think buffalo would be an interesting trade partner, right up against the cap and probably wanting to get some relief since they ain’t making the playoffs. I wonder what it would take to get Pominville in an avs unipron and if the avs would want to A) make the trade for it, and B) spend the money required.
Peter McNabb thinks I'm outstanding.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jan 30, 2012 4:57 PM MST up reply actions
how exactly will they compete for a cup and when? They have no first next year, hishon is a non factor, they have zero forwards in minors? FA signings the only way. They should not trade Stas tho for the reasons you said plus he’s having a shit year.
Pominville would take current players IMO so it’s a wash. If they would take Barrie and a 2nd and quincey I would do that deal, Avs won’t though.
Here’s a pretty fair assumption: If they don’t start spending moneythey will likely never be a top team.
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 5:02 PM MST up reply actions
The core of this team is about 23 on average, Stastny is the oldest ‘core’ piece at 26. A smart GM is putting together all the pieces for this team to truly compete year in and year out in 2 years when everyone has some seasoning. I’m not convinced our GM is smart, but for now I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt, and I don’t think it would take NHL players to get JP, but it would take prospects, I don’t think the avs will give those up. But watching Buffalo at the deadline will be interesting, I think they’ll be major sellers.
Peter McNabb thinks I'm outstanding.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jan 30, 2012 5:08 PM MST up reply actions
our young guys may get better but there’s no way that gets us to top of conference. In two years what will we have? Hishon? our first from 2013 draft who is 18? see what I mean? Maybe Barrie and Siemens will help the D but we have zero forwards coming or maybe I would agree. We may be the weakest team in the NHL right now on forward prospects, literally. We don’t have a Schenn or Giroux in system. No where we really fucked up? We should have traded Liles and a 2nd (or 1st) for James Neal.
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 5:18 PM MST up reply actions
Muerrs has looked promising. Hishon did look promising until the concussion. I think we can depend on Hishon, albeit he lost a year of development, I think he will turn into a fine winger. I’ve always liked Olver’s game as well.
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 5:19 PM MST up reply actions
Muerrs weighs 169lbs, that’s not a joke. Olver same and Hishon 175 with a wet t-shirt on. Olver is a fringe NHL player, thus why he is in minors. Can’t beat out DVG? That’s not a core guy ever. Hishon might be a player someday.
We need James neal or jamie Benn or Parise.
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 5:31 PM MST up reply actions
They obviously aren’t core guys but they are also only 18-20 years old. They have time to put on some weight, that is the least of my worries. Elliott is still skinny. Look at RNH. It will take a while to get them to be physically mature and even if they aren’t small guys can make it in this league as well. Hishon’s skill set is pretty high.
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 5:35 PM MST up reply actions
Olver played college so he’s not that young (25?). RNH and Elliot are over 6 feet but also RNH is a rare talent. I’m just saying we need size bad. Perry, Ryan, Hartnell, Malkin, Neal, Iginla, Getlaf, Kopitar all big guys. The strength on the puck and body positioning helps them so much.
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 5:40 PM MST up reply actions
He’s 24, so my bad, but in terms of development he is young because College players develop slower. We have controlled a lot of possession this year without much size up front, I think we are alright without it.
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 5:42 PM MST up reply actions
we also get pinned in our zone for what seems like 5 minutes at a time when we play big teams. Remember SJ in playoffs just playing keep away?
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 5:51 PM MST up reply actions
Well SJ in playoffs was two years ago, when we played a completely different style of hockey. We didn’t play a possession game, we played a run and gun style of game. This year we really don’t get pinned in our zone any more than any other average team. It has happened a few notable times after a PK and everyone is tired and cant change, but it usually doesn’t happen out of the blue (at least no more than any average team).
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 5:54 PM MST up reply actions
got to disagree, Minny played the entire game in our end and they scored dirty goals which the avs don’t b/c we have too many finesse guys.
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 6:03 PM MST up reply actions
Like I said, there are a few examples that we get dominated, but it has been fairly average. If we had been getting constantly dominated all year, than we’d be much lower in the standings.
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 6:08 PM MST up reply actions
but we dominated them possession-wise. two of their goals came off of breakaways. Hiller played real real well.
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 6:25 PM MST up reply actions
this comments brings a tear of joy to my eye.(also that game brought frustration to my eyes)
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Jan 30, 2012 6:28 PM MST up reply actions
the fact that I have made you proud brings a tear to my eye
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 6:32 PM MST up reply actions
He couldn’t beat out VDG because he only recently came back from a concussion. VGD has been in the lineup since early December (I think), and Olver only healed up a couple weeks ago.
I know but he’s a fringe NHL player, that’s all.
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 5:40 PM MST up reply actions
if you are talking about Garrett MEURS
he is bigger this year. He has added an inch or two and some weight from those stats. Sure he hasn’t pulled a Jones, yet, and added a few inches and some size after being drafted… but he should turn into about an average sized winger. Question is if he will produce in the AHL let alone the NHL.
Languishing for Landeskog
I’m saying they’ll let their own guys get better then add players at the right time. The avs holes are too big to fill by just drafting or by just signing free agents, unfortunately patience will be necessary, the stanley cup window on this team hasn’t even opened.
Peter McNabb thinks I'm outstanding.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jan 30, 2012 8:37 PM MST up reply actions
I say the Avs should stay pat. This requires some optimism. Let’s think about it. The Avs goaltending has been sub-par as a whole, essentially all season. The Avs “supposed to be” top scorers have been way below par all season. If the Avs goalies can step up even just a little, and if the Avs forwards can actually produce like I think they should, then we should be fine for this season.
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
that’s basically their plan but if they can get a vet or two for cheap think it would help.
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 5:19 PM MST up reply actions
i think, if we are in the playoffs at the deadline, we don’t need the vet, if we are a point or two back, we should think about getting one.
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 5:20 PM MST up reply actions
I think that’s exactly what will happen which I think is fine. The question is will be be only a pt back by then?
by the cool breeze on Jan 30, 2012 5:32 PM MST up reply actions
I agree w u. And keep it up w the no smoking.
Small defencemen? What small defencemen?
by ljp78 on Jan 30, 2012 5:47 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Which one would you rather have?
Mueller – Duchene – Ruutu
Landy – O’Reilly – Hejduk
Galiardi – Stastny – Jones
DVG – McC – Winnik
Or..
Duchene – Stastny – Mueller
Landy – O’Reilly – Hejduk
Galiardi – McC – Winnik
Ok yeah both look fine the difference is depth.. Without the ability to roll 4 lines that are a threat we are one injury away from the roster problems we have right now. We need to make the playoffs for many reasons. Experience/Development… Respect? Yeah I don’t know about you but I don’t want to be like Edm.. As stated before making the Playoffs will sell tickets.. and Sell the team to potential Free Agents. If we are lucky enough to see someone like Parise go to FA we need to be ready. If we pickup Parise + a top 4 D in free agency or maybe even a guy that can play consistent No. 2 minutes along side EJ we are a serious team again.
No I don’t think a big move is what is needed but yeah a small move for a pending UFA we could resign like Ruutu or Grabovski is exactly what we need. Something that will not gut our future but help us move forward.
To me I’m fine either way, as long as they don’t give up too much for a rental. We already don’t have a first this year, and possibly only 1 second, so we don’t have much to offer. If we can get one for a 3rd then I’d be alright with it.
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 8:05 PM MST up reply actions
That’s where I disagree with a lot of people. I don’t think our 2nd rounder is going to help us in the next 2-3 or even 4 years. At least not in the way picking up a guy like Ruutu which if resigned could help us for the next 4-5 easy. We would have to get really lucky like with O’Reilly and we know the chances of that are pretty slim.
2nd + mid level prospect… Is what seems to be Ruutu’s “speculated” cost.
If Caps choose to have the Avs 2nd rounder next year leaving them with not only their own but Boston’s as well, I’d not mind seeing Boston’s pick being sent for a vet.
The reason I'm in town, in case you're wondering, is because of a Kansas City Shuffle.
I want atleast one so we don’t destroy our pipeline
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 8:35 PM MST up reply actions
Why do you insist on putting Stastny on the third line? His problem in production appears to be wingers. A pick up of Ruutu is a match for Stastny’s wing. I understand everyone (including me) would love to see O’Reilly be a consistent top 6 center, but the problem here is we don’t know if he can keep up this level of production. I love what he brings to the game, but as a coach, before demoting Stastny (who while having a down year is still the more proven player over O’Reilly) to the third line, you roll out Mueller – Stastny- Ruutu as your first line with Landy – Duchene – Duke as your second line for a couple games to see if there’s some chemistry. That center depth (with all cylinders firing) is pretty amazing. I’m betting that Stastny will be traded well before he ever sees 3rd line minutes on this team. Some of you people treat him like he’s Scott freaking Gomez.
The reason I'm in town, in case you're wondering, is because of a Kansas City Shuffle.
I just did that to show the lines and because of where I think the minutes would fall but actually I think depending on how the lines are playing that night their minutes will be pretty close. It’s just for list purposes really..
besides Galairdi - Stastny - Jones has worked in the past.
Stastny makes guys around him better.. Duchene needs the quality wingers more to be effective.
No it hasn’t…at least in only a small sample size. Last time they tried that line Gali got injured and was out for a while. Gali is not a top 6, he’s a tweener. Third liner that steps into a 2nd line if needed. He’s depth. Duchene would have the quality wingers in Landeskog and Duke (theoretically speaking).
The reason I'm in town, in case you're wondering, is because of a Kansas City Shuffle.
Yet you put Stastny with the same wingers he’s had resulting in poor production still when the better ones that were pretty much acquired for him are right up top. Your “list” and their minutes are pretty off. I highly doubt a third line with Gali and Jones would see even close to the minutes of a second line with Duchene on it.
The reason I'm in town, in case you're wondering, is because of a Kansas City Shuffle.
Ideally, this is with the team performing well and up to par:
Landeskog -Stastny – Ruutu
Mueller – Duchene – Duke
Gali – O’Reilly – Winnik
Kobasew – McC – Porter/Malone
This is with a Ruutu trade, and sending Jones and a pick the other way (at least, don’t know what they’d realistically expect but this is what I’d include).
Play it for a bit to see who has chemistry. If it needs fixed so be it, but at least give it a try before demotions. Those are the guys expected to play top 6 minutes, let them have at it. If guys like O’Reilly (which yet again, I’m fine with) can perform better than so be it, but give your top 6 a chance first.
The reason I'm in town, in case you're wondering, is because of a Kansas City Shuffle.
I just don’t see them splitting up Landy/O’Reilly
I could see..
Mueller – Duchene – Ruutu
Galiardi – Stastny – Hejduk
Landy – O’Reilly – Winnik
Kobasew – McC – Jones/Porter/DVG/Cody Mac..
The thing is I like McC and Winnik together on the 4th line..
I could see something similar to this as well but flip Ruutu and Duke. I think Ruutu would be much more suited to Stastny’s game. Also, remember McC takes some 3rd line minutes as well right now. He can switch pretty flawlessly between the two. Winnik and O’Reilly have worked really well together in the past and I believe Winnik is pretty deserving of those minutes. Also, Jones isn’t stickin around if Ruutu is here. Just no space really. Cody Mac may very well be gone too at the end of this season. I think Kobasew – McC – Porter/Malone is your 4th line going forward. Either way, that’s a team (if healthy and playing their game, not this dump and chase crap) that could be pretty potent. Keep in mind, Duke is starting to look like retirement is just around the corner, so his shoes are going to need filled too.
The reason I'm in town, in case you're wondering, is because of a Kansas City Shuffle.
Parise – Duchene – Mueller
Galiardi – Stastny – Ruutu/Hishon
Landy – O’Reilly – Ruutu/Hishon
DVG – McC – Winnik
That is what I would love to see next year if Hejduk retires. That would be sick.. If not our depth would only be even better..
Hishon won’t be nhl ready by then
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 9:25 PM MST up reply actions
my fav part about those lines
No McLeod
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 9:26 PM MST up reply actions
Yes, because Cody McLeod’s 6:54 each game is exactly the team’s biggest problem.
by DiD on Jan 31, 2012 5:40 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
He wasn’t expected to play, he was expected to make a push, but now with the concussion i think it will take him a while to regain his stride, much like Mules did, and then he needs to raise his skill to an NHL level, but he has real good vision, a good shot and is feisty, I love him.
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 9:27 PM MST up reply actions
My hope is that he returns before the end of the year and plays in LE a few games. Then comes into camp ready for next year. Like I said if Hejduk retires we don’t have anyone with his skill set coming in besides Hishon. Depending on depth I think he will play next year wether hes ready or not.
Because who do you actually think is going to play better than him in the bottom six? With those lines.. O’Reilly and Lady probably..
I’d throw Landy up there if Hishon isn’t ready.
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 9:39 PM MST up reply actions
What about Swapping Mueller with Landy and putting Mueller on Stastny’s line then? Giving Stastny a scorer to play with and Ruutu could fill Landy’s shoes with O’Reilly?
I like that, Mules and Stastny have played real well together.
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 9:57 PM MST up reply actions
Then you end up with something like this for O’Reilly’s line.
Ruutu – O’Reilly – Winnik/Hejduk/Hishon
Depending on who’s ready or retires.. But I will take it with any of those 3. With Winnik that is a pretty punishing 3rd line. It either ends up being a defensively responsible scoring 3rd line or a total shut down line with scoring potential.
I guess the point is with a big Free agent signing and acquiring Ruutu this year we could have the depth to really have options.
If Parise was not available I still think Semin would be worth picking up.
that third line would be a tough line to play against. VERY punishing. Winnik is a pretty big guy as is Ruutu
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 10:05 PM MST up reply actions
Winnik doesn’t hit for shit though.
2011-2012 Lokomotiv Yaroslavl: Vyechnaya Pamyat!
2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: Chances are rapidly diminishing that this will not suck.
He is good on the fore check thought and pushes opposing D back with his size and speed. You can say the same about Ruutu and O’Reilly.. Punishing would mean wearing down the oppositions D. Besides Ruutu does hit like a train..
Don’t get me wrong. I like Winnik a whole lot as a player. He’s one of the smarter defensive players around. That said, the thing keeping him from being an absolute defensive nightmare for the opposition is the fact that he won’t just smack a guy.
2011-2012 Lokomotiv Yaroslavl: Vyechnaya Pamyat!
2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: Chances are rapidly diminishing that this will not suck.
yes he does
he just doesn’t run ppl over, he is physical though.
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 10:30 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah the whole thing about it is.. It’s not impossible at all. There is a good chance one of Parise/Semin makes it to free agency and all we need to do is make a good offer for Ruutu.
That lineup is exactly why I think it’s worth trading our 2nd rounder for Ruutu. You know with signing Ruutu and Parise to 7 and 3.5/4 million dollar contracts we could still afford to pull a big D out of free agency as well like Suter or at least someone who can play No. 2 minutes.
That would be an absolute dream though but it’s fiesable under the cap. I did that fan post a while back to prove it.
put me in the “don’t want Semin on my team” camp
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 10:31 PM MST up reply actions
Are you saying if he was available at Free Agency and Parise was not. You wouldn’t send an offer his way?
Considering how badly we need a true first line winger?
I wouldn’t send an offer his way. I doesn’t play defense, period. He’s a great talent but he has been lazy and doesn’t show up in crucial moments. That’s the type of player I don’t want. The only way I would want him, is if someone could light a fire under his ass and make sure he will 100% care.
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 11:42 PM MST up reply actions
Was he? I was under the understanding that he needed a year (or two), a la Cody Hodgson.
Peter McNabb thinks I'm outstanding.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jan 30, 2012 9:29 PM MST up reply actions
I think so.. I think management was actually counting Hishon and Mueller in at the beginning of the year. That’s why they were so set on trying to roll 3/4 lines instead of consolidating the lines. Which took almost a month before they finally did it.. Could be wrong though.. Just speculation based on the Varly trade and what our roster would of looked like with both of them healthy in the top 6.
Next year? Probably not, I think his game has fallen off quite a bit this year.
Peter McNabb thinks I'm outstanding.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jan 30, 2012 9:26 PM MST up reply actions
If Stastny gets traded (I hope not) and O’Reilly keeps proving he’s ready for full time top 6 (he’s done so most of the season, but consistency is what I’m looking for), then by all means, make him one of your top 6 long term, he’s a core guy and I think he deserves it. Just remember, Pens have Jordan Staal as their 3rd center when completely healthy, that’s the kind of depth I’d like the Avs to achieve.
The reason I'm in town, in case you're wondering, is because of a Kansas City Shuffle.
That is also assuming Jones has completely lost is scoring touch and goes from a 2nd/3rd line RW to a 4th liner.. or is gone. If he has not then finding a place on the top 9 he could contribute could be key.
I don’t want to trade Stastny either. I want our 1-2-3 C to be..
Duchene
Stastny
O’Reilly
If you actually look 50-60 point seasons for a 3rd line center is pretty normal on good teams. No one will ever fit a 3rd line role and give us scoring like O’Reilly does.
Stall and Kesler are both good examples of guys who played on the 3rd line.
Kesler moved to 2nd line duties because he was a 40 goal guy and even the hoovers don’t have the depth to keep him there. Stall moves back and fourth between 2nd and 3rd line duties depending on injuries. I think we need to keep our center depth.
Staal is a prime example also due to the Pens getting plagued by injuries. He steps it up when called upon. Great player.
The reason I'm in town, in case you're wondering, is because of a Kansas City Shuffle.
but he is severely underutilized
unless there is an injury
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 9:02 PM MST up reply actions
or he is injured himself – an all to frequent occurrence of late.
2011-2012 Lokomotiv Yaroslavl: Vyechnaya Pamyat!
2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: Chances are rapidly diminishing that this will not suck.
yep
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 10:05 PM MST up reply actions
50-60 point seasons on good teams as a 3rd line center is normal? You are severely mistaken.
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 8:54 PM MST up reply actions
What does Stall produce? What did Kesler put up as a 3rd line center? Who is Boston and Philly’s 3rd line centers? and.. I bet you SJ’s would be pretty close..
Staal...not Stall
Has produced 49 points last season and the season before that (keep in mind, played on top 6 not just 3rd line). He’s a former 2nd overall pick and is only 23.
The reason I'm in town, in case you're wondering, is because of a Kansas City Shuffle.
yeah my bad Staal.. Still there you go.. I bet Kesler was close to that while he was on the 3rd line or better.
Every good 3rd line center plays 2nd line minutes when needed.
Most 3rd line centers don’t put up 50-60 pts cuz if they are capable of that, they are second line centers.
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 9:01 PM MST up reply actions
yeah, the last two you can’t count because he was playing second line with Crosby out. The years that he was an actual third line he produced 49, with some pp time.
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 9:00 PM MST up reply actions
I think 49 is close enough to make my point. The best 3rd line centers produce some and fill gaps when injuries hit. Unless O’Reilly is the next Kesler.. He is a better fit for the 3rd line than anything we have or will have.
I probably should have said cup contenders instead of “good teams” because I was talking about maybe 4 teams in the league that get picked to be in the SC finals at the end of the year.
Alright, cup contenders is fair enough, but there are, like you said, maybe four of those, and each of those third liners, is a second liner on 20 other teams.
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 9:10 PM MST up reply actions
Exactly what I hope O’Reilly is for us. Ideally Duchene develops into our true 1C and Stasty in our 2C. If we keep Stastny I think he takes a pay cut to around 5 mil in two years. Hopefully…
he better damn well take a pay cut
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 9:23 PM MST up reply actions
What would the open market pay him? Not what he’s getting.
Peter McNabb thinks I'm outstanding.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jan 30, 2012 9:27 PM MST up reply actions
Good News Guys!
We only have two more
gameslosses this year against Calgary!!!
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
well that was the wrong button, heh.
We only have two more games losses this year against Calgary!
heh, the strikethrough and quote buttons are right next to eachother.
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 30, 2012 5:40 PM MST up reply actions
FWIW,
The Preds may want to Suter.
http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/322687-suter-puts-preds-on-trade-watch?eref=sihp&sct=hp_bf2_a12
How about… Suter, for…. The legend of Nederost. And a fourth. Quick! To the HFboards!
Small defencemen? What small defencemen?
by ljp78 on Jan 30, 2012 8:20 PM MST via mobile reply actions
hunwick and a LoDo hooker for Suter
Make it happen Sherm!
I believe.
by Lost Winter on Jan 30, 2012 10:55 PM MST up reply actions
If Stastny gets traded, I don’t think we need a star player coming back. We certainly would need a top prospect and a first rounder. Also 6 million of cap space filled.
"It's not my fault I never learned to accept responsibility."-Woody Paige
IE: Star player...
3rd liners and prospects don’t make enough to compensate for it. If Stastny gets traded, not only does center depth get horribly depleted, but it would have to include a top line winger coming back. Duke is lookin like he may retire. If Stastny leaves, it’s for something more than a prospect and a pick.
The reason I'm in town, in case you're wondering, is because of a Kansas City Shuffle.
I don’t think it would be detrimental to not get a star player back. Derek Roy? Yeah, okay. That would be fine, but I’d rather keep rebuilding through this season. I guys it brings it back to the buyers or sellers debate, but that is the return Carter got this summer.
"It's not my fault I never learned to accept responsibility."-Woody Paige
by GeorgeInLimbo on Jan 30, 2012 9:42 PM MST up reply actions
Remember, it’s a pro-rated fraction of $6M coming back. They could take a couple of salary dumps for 4th liners to achieve that. Next year they have a pile of RFAs and UFAs that need to be signed to have a full roster. They can make it up.
OK Shermie, time to be the shepherd
by Busted Twigg on Jan 30, 2012 8:37 PM MST up reply actions
Plus, if we need to pick up Semin to balance out the Salary Cap for a few months, then that isn’t so bad is it?
Actually, I didn’t know about the pro-rated fraction. That gives management a little more flexibility.
"It's not my fault I never learned to accept responsibility."-Woody Paige
by GeorgeInLimbo on Jan 30, 2012 9:40 PM MST up reply actions
Don't forget about the looming lockout...
It’s expected that the salary ap could drop leaving teams like Chicago and Philly in a horrible position. The Avs will be in the perfect position to poach talent that couldn’t be resigned by these teams.
I believe.
by Lost Winter on Jan 30, 2012 10:59 PM MST up reply actions
No way does the league approve a measure that is going to put teams over the cap without some kind of amnesty ruling allowing those teams to buy out or just drop a contract or two with no penalties. We can thank the NBA for that gem.
4th biggest pessimist of MHH.
"There's always next season." -- Jimmy Howard on not winning the Calder Trophy.
Yes, the Avs need a few more pieces to be a competitive team. Stastny needs a power forward, EJ needs a shutdown partner, and we should probably start looking for a replacement for Hejduk and possibly Hishon in the near future. But more than anything else, this team just needs more experience.
We have 20 NHL caliber or potential NHL caliber players in our system that are at or under the age of 24: Landeskog, Seimens, Meurs, Hishon, Pickard, Attiokallio, Duchene, O’Reilly, Elliott, Barrie, Gaunce, Millan, Patterson, Malone, Johnson, Mueller, Galiardi, Varlamov, Olver and Wilson. While this would be an awesome farm if we were a perennial playoff/Cup Contender team, we aren’t. Instead, we’re basically sending a bunch of prospects out en mass against the rest of the league under the direction of a young coach and a young GM.
It’s going to take them a little time to get everything figured out, so 2-3 more years of experience is probably going to make this team better than any addition right now ever could. Still, I’d like to see Sherman start to find the missing pieces at this deadline or during this summer. But instead of signing vets, I’d prefer he look for some young up-and-comers. If we can find someone that will help us a little now but could really become a difference-maker in a few years, I’d rather take them than a rental or veteran (35+) player even if it means missing playoffs this year.
However, I’m not suggesting we go back into perpetual rebuild mode and trade for draft picks. I’m saying that we need to look for players in the 18-24 age range that fit our needs and just need a change of scenery to find/return to their badass level of play. Basically, I’d like to see Sherman pull a Sherman and make a moderate to large-scale trade for a struggling young player to address one of our needs by deadline day.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs and writes for Mile High Hockey.
I could see them moving Jones, Hunwick, and some prospects. And listening to offers for Stastny, McC, RoB, Wilson and Quincey if the offers IMPROVE the team rather than fill the coffers with picks and prospects. Maybe Porter gets moved in a package but he’s fine in his current role. Despite what he makes, it will probably take a lot to pry Stastny from the Avs as he is a selling point for FAs. Moving him for anything but a great return could send the wrong message to quality UFAs.
Languishing for Landeskog
2010
Does anybody remember the Olympics, specifically how f’ing good Stastny and Parise were together? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Sherman, recognize that you’ve got compatible talent just waiting to make the team loads better if you can open up the checkbook a bit.
wFlan : Annoying Canucks fans on their home turf since 07
Capgeek
Every time I look at the Avs’ contracts on CapGeek, it makes me think the Avs are just shutting down operations after this season.
4th biggest pessimist of MHH.
"There's always next season." -- Jimmy Howard on not winning the Calder Trophy.
This whole post has been rendered moot:
If Eklund says the avs are buyers then they must be. It’s not like he’s wrong 96.1% of the time. Wait…. http://hockeybuzzhogwash.com/?p=2022
Peter McNabb thinks I'm outstanding.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jan 31, 2012 1:17 PM MST reply actions
Wow. 96.1%? You’re giving the guy a bit too much credit. And that’s counting the TSN stories he just re-posts.
Laughter and tears are both responses to frustration and exhaustion. I myself prefer to laugh, since there is less cleaning up to do afterward. - Kv
by MalachiConstant on Jan 31, 2012 1:32 PM MST up reply actions
I can’t believe I sometimes visit that horrible website…
“PARISE RUMORS CLICK HERE!!!!”
inside the article
I’m hearing Parise rumors. More info soon.
Paul Stastny did, what Paul Stastny does. Score big goals.
I only go there for the fantasy game, I don’t click on any stories.
Peter McNabb thinks I'm outstanding.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jan 31, 2012 2:58 PM MST up reply actions
except for that one obviously.
Peter McNabb thinks I'm outstanding.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jan 31, 2012 2:58 PM MST up reply actions
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