AVS Should Trade D Prospect for Solid Top 6 Forward.
by Doctor Hockey on Jan 5, 2012 2:16 PM MST
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The AVs are deep on defense which is a good thing but incredibly thin up front which is keeping them form moving to the next level. So many teams need good D-men and are thin. Why not trade Tyson Barrie or even Duncan Siemans and sure up the front line.
If this is not possible, or rubs Sherman wrong, lets get serious about free agency and look at the likes of Semin or Parise or both. We need help desperately. When our top scorer is O'Reilly (who I love) with 29 points it puts an exclamation point on this argument.
I would be interested in talking about this in my 15 minute Dr Hockey radio spot on Tuesdays at 5PM on Mile HIgh Sports (AM 1510, FM 97.3 Call 303-297-1510). Post your comments and will report on them next Tuesday and feel free to call in. If we get more calls they will extend the segment
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1) Duncan Siemens and Barrie fill different roles. One is a stay at home hard hitting defenseman, the other is offensive. They would garner different returns and they cannot be equated for trade value.
2) Shattenkirk was traded because Elliott and Barrie were in the system. If the Avs trade Barrie and Elliott stops performing then the Avs went from a point of strength to a point of weakness.
3) Trading any defensive prospect is asinine primarily because Barrie has no value right now. Barrie has put up good points but so has TJ Hensick. His value is not high enough to be worth the return and their potential is still high enough to not be worth the risk of losing it.
4) This position is a point of strength, but it is not to the point where it is worth sacrificing for a winger. There is no immediate fix to the winger issue, sorry.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
It’s impossible to say what Barrie’s value is, as it’s entirely in the eye of the beholder. Some GM might look at his footage and love him, some might not. Brayden Schenn was the primary piece for Mike Richards.
If some other GM would trade a solid wing for Barrie, great. If not, I wouldn’t throw him away in desperation either.
imo, the team needs to spend in UFA, period. we don’t have an overflowing system to go after big trades and such. we do have tons and tons of cap room. we need to spend!
they would be better suited
to trade one of their other prospects for a struggling winger or soon to be UFA. It would take 2-3 really good prospects for someone like Parise so would the Avs be ok with trading Duncan, Barrie AND something else for half a season of a player? In the new NHL, trading prospects for quality NHLers require a team to be in love with a prospect or just need to do something. Bournival (former 3rd rounder) only netted a bottom pairing D in O’Byrne who once looked like he may not have been even NHL caliber at one point. Cohen (a top D prospect) netted another fringe NHL D prospect who fell out of favor. Mike Richards required a top 5 draftee, a top 9 physical forward with 15-20 goal potential and a 2nd round pick. It is just going to cost a lot for most players that it is so hard to make a trade for a quality player.
Languishing for Landeskog
I’d package Quincey with other parts if they could do it to obtain a top 6 winger. Definitely. As Seer of 6 whores said above, I’m just not sure that they could get fair value in return for a D prospect.
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
I agree. Even a top prospect that hasn’t played in an NHL game isn’t going to get you a top sixer most of the time. Maybe Tyson Barrie plus a 3rd rounder. I know we love Quincey and Wilson, but if we’re looking to get any serious talent back, I’m thinking Sherman is looking at these two guys.
Especially with Quincey.
"It's not my fault I never learned to accept responsibility."-Woody Paige
by GeorgeInLimbo on Jan 6, 2012 2:11 AM MST up reply actions
Would you trade Quincy to get Ryan Smyrh back? Hypothetically tha is because I have no delusions that Kroenke would pay him!
by Doctor Hockey on Jan 7, 2012 6:37 AM MST up reply actions
Smyth (35) only has one or two more semi-productive years left in him. I know he had a great start to the season, but he’s been trailing off from his original offensive production. If you trade a talent like Kyle Quincey (26), you should expect a top six guy straight up. Add a prospect or a low draft pick and that may get you something really nice in return. Smyth, while talented, is no doubt in his twilight years as a player.
That being said, I would trade Kyle Quincey for a younger guy with a similar skill set in an instant.
"It's not my fault I never learned to accept responsibility."-Woody Paige
by GeorgeInLimbo on Jan 7, 2012 9:51 AM MST up reply actions
With Parise becoming an UFA at the end of the year a lot could come down to his liklihood to resign with NJ. That being said, they might be willing to let him go for the proverbial something at the deadline. We could trade and sign or sign and trade. Hopefully we have learned not to give up the ranch they way we did with Fleury if we cannot lock him up. Every time I see Robin Regher I cringe to think of the fact that he was our prospect. If not we should wait and throw some money at him in free agency if Josh K will take a chip off the pile. He is also way off his 92 and 84 point pace from when he came into the league. Semin may be looking for a change in scenery and could be tired of playing in Ovy’s shadow. Healthy, I like his size over Parise’s but I would take either one. I would be reluctant to give up Quincey. He is our best healthy D-man.
Semin is great, but comes at a risk and Parise will cost us the farm. How about young guys that can develop with the team? Zach Kassian, Lars Eller or even Kadri or Johanson if they were ever available. Kassian and Eller are big, skilled guys on two struggling teams out east. They are prospects that would cost us, but I may be worth the return a few years down the road.
Kassian needs speed and Eller needs offensive consistency, but that’s why the organization develops. Keep veterans trickled in the lineup, but keep the focus on hitting our prime with O’Reilly and Duchene.
"It's not my fault I never learned to accept responsibility."-Woody Paige
by GeorgeInLimbo on Jan 6, 2012 2:15 AM MST up reply actions
Avs already turned down Kadri once this year :)
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
Really? You have any other details? Him and Duchene? Man…
"It's not my fault I never learned to accept responsibility."-Woody Paige
by GeorgeInLimbo on Jan 6, 2012 9:53 AM MST up reply actions
Kadri, Franson, Kulemin
to the Avs. Colorado rejected it. No word ever came out about what the Avs would have sent in return.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
source? and assuming it’s true, that looks like a Stastny offer. I’m glad we rejected it, not fans of Kules or Kadri.
I like Kadri
but not Kulemin. And yeah, it was pretty well assumed it was a Stastny offer.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
Damn lucky I’m not the GM. Given the time then, I would have pulled the trigger. All those guys are 25 or younger, a big d-man and a depth winger that is russian?
"It's not my fault I never learned to accept responsibility."-Woody Paige
by GeorgeInLimbo on Jan 6, 2012 11:53 PM MST up reply actions
Kadri is the piece
that would help the most. Kulemin would theoretically help but it would’ve been buying high on him after his year last year. Franson I really like but he reallllly wouldn’t have much of a place on our roster moving forward.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
Yeah, not anymore for Franson. Kadri is a hot shot that would take over games with his speed, skill and swagger. Matched with Duchene, not a lot of defenders are going to keep up with those guys. I would still trade for Kadri this season if we’re really trying to build around Duchene. He’s one of the few fits for our young stud.
"It's not my fault I never learned to accept responsibility."-Woody Paige
by GeorgeInLimbo on Jan 7, 2012 9:54 AM MST up reply actions
Probably.
"It's not my fault I never learned to accept responsibility."-Woody Paige
by GeorgeInLimbo on Jan 7, 2012 9:54 AM MST up reply actions
As nice as that would be in theory the world doesn’t work like NHL 11. You have to trade quality to get quality. What defensive prospects do the Avs have that would return a proven top 6 forward? What NHL franchise would take a deal like that?
At exactly what point do you start to realize that life without knowledge is death in disguise?
Nope, simply nope. Parise won’t be a UFA, I can almost guarantee that. Semin might, but his character is debatable. Don’t trade Barrie or Siemens because they are long term replacements for O’Byrne/Hunwick/maybe SOB/
I see us still only having Quincey, EJ, Elliott and Wilson in 3 years and probably Hejda just because he is signed through. Barrie and Siemens might replace them, but then we also have Gaunce (who plays a lot like SOB minus the stick handling). IF all three of these players turn out to be solid to awesome, then we may be able to trade Quincey or Wilson or EJ. Ej may not pan out, although I think he will. There are some other good options for wingers after this season. I believe Ruutu is available, along with Semin and others.
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
Most new jersey experts believe Parise is gone this summer.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
I think Parise will get resigned, too. If he was traded he would cost us a ton.
"It's not my fault I never learned to accept responsibility."-Woody Paige
by GeorgeInLimbo on Jan 6, 2012 9:56 AM MST up reply actions
If it becomes clear that NJ won’t be able to re-sign him, I think they’ll go with a trade (at least for his rights) before he goes straight UFA. Losing a player of Parise’s caliber for nothing would be a HUGE mistake. Even if it’s for a few picks on June 30th, I highly doubt he’ll see UFA.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs and writes for Mile High Hockey.
Well I am sure the good people over at In Lou We Trust have their own ideas, but it is very clear, to a lot of higher profile season ticket holders (who I know well) who speak with the beat reporters as well as members in the organization, that Parise will be gone. They don’t see a fit anymore with Parise because once Elias and Brodeur retire there isn’t much left. There’s Larsson and Kovi and that’s about it. There are some good young kids, but Parise is their best piece to obtain a goalie and/or center.
Centers used to be a strength for the Devil and Lou used to pride himself on that when they won. It is assumed by some experts that trading Parise for pieces (goalie or center), signing the remaining needs, and using younger kids is smarter.
Keeping Parise gives NJ a great group of wingers, arguably the best, but trying to find a center and/or goalie on the FA market is tricky. Look at Phoenix, Philly, Tampa, etc. It’s not easy. Parise might be the best bet to build the team for more immediate success.
Of course, Parise could agree to sign at a discount in order to give NJ cap space. If his loyalty runs that deep then he could stay. Another aspect “bloggers” forget, especially at ILWT, is that Parise was the face of that team but they went out and signed Kovi to an absurd contract. That annoys a player. He should expect that kind of contract if he is really “more important than Kovi” and if he does NJ is pinned.
Logically, trading Parise for a center or goalie or both is the smartest in the long run for the cap and likely the team.
A man who stole my whisky used the defense that no one could resist a bottle of Scotch. I had no choice but to testify on his behalf.
If it becomes clear
Not sure that it will before the trade deadline. Lou has a lot to think through as c6 outlined about, but he won’t know Parise’s price point before the deadline.
Laughter and tears are both responses to frustration and exhaustion. I myself prefer to laugh, since there is less cleaning up to do afterward. - Kv
by MalachiConstant on Jan 6, 2012 1:05 PM MST up reply actions
I think if we can trade for his rights, like Buffalo did with Ehrhoff, then go for it, if he really wants to be in Colorado, he will wait for UFA and come to us
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.
by ProfessorOak on Jan 7, 2012 11:18 AM MST up reply actions
I don't always agree with Andi
but when I do, it almost always involves Parise
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
There’s a most interesting man in the world joke in there somewhere ….
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Jan 6, 2012 1:37 PM MST up reply actions
No way you get fair value for him at this point in his career.
Let him simmer in the nasty juices of the Dark Side for a few more years.
2011-2012 Lokomotiv Yaroslavl: Vyechnaya Pamyat!
2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: Chances are rapidly diminishing that this will not suck.
Nothing like having a Sith on your blueline!
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs and writes for Mile High Hockey.
Unless the winger would play for free, I don’t see it happening.
Peter McNabb thinks I'm outstanding.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jan 6, 2012 9:37 AM MST reply actions
Yep. And we already tried that. Now he’s back in Europe where he belongs.
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
by Bob in Boulder on Jan 6, 2012 9:55 AM MST up reply actions
I’m firmly convinced that the avs won’t do anything up til the trade deadline to keep player costs at a minimum. Even then I’m not sure they’ll be ‘players’ at the deadline, but I do think the’ll so a couple small deals if they’re still in it.
Peter McNabb thinks I'm outstanding.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Jan 6, 2012 10:39 AM MST up reply actions
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