Analysis of the Steve Downie - Kyle Quincey Trade
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Feb 21, 2012 7:23 PM MST
in Avalanche News & Notes
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Earlier today, the Colorado Avalanche traded defenseman Kyle Quincey to the Tampa Bay Lightning for forward Steve Downie. The Lightning then immediately traded Quincey to the Detroit Red Wings for defenseman Sebastian Piche and the Wings 1st round pick in this summer's entry draft. Reviews from the fan base have been decidedly mixed, but I am a big fan of this deal.
For the Avalanche perspective, it's certainly not a shock that Quincey is a player on the move. We tagged him as the most likely to be moved not too long ago and the assumption has been that the Avalanche would move him for a forward at the deadline. I won't lie - I've never been a big Quincey fan. In his three seasons in Colorado, he's started out terrific - scoring, hitting and being an overall bad motherfucker in front of the net. And then December 1st comes along and things go south in a hurry - no scoring, no hitting, no passion. 44 of Quincey's 92 career points have come in October and November - 47%. After that, it's game over. But even if I am not the biggest Quincey admirer, it was still not tough to see that he'd be moving. The Avalanche have a nice core of Erik Johnson, Jan Hejda, Ryan O'Byrne and Ryan Wilson with Stefan Elliott (who was recalled today) and Tyson Barrie waiting in the wings. Quincey - and his $3.25 million cap hit - was expendable.
Steve Downie is an interesting acquisition. He has, for a franchise that experienced the ugly Steve Moore incident, a less-than desirable track record. Downie was suspended in junior for a cross-check in practice of teammate Alim Aliu after Aliu allegedly refused an attempt at hazing. In 2007 he was suspended 20 games by the NHL for checking Dean McAmmond into the boards and in 2009 he was suspended 20 games by the AHL for slashing a lineseman. Ugly incidents, to be sure. However, by many accounts, Downie has matured in recent years. He's still pretty young (he turns 25 in April) and young people can do stupid things sometimes (I speak from a position of experience). Ugly past aside, I think Steve Downie is exactly what the Avalanche need.
The Avalanche have struggled to score goals this year. Downie has 12 goals and 28 points, which would put him 5th on the Avs in scoring. But he's more than that. Downie is a feisty player - a little pest who isn't afraid to drop the gloves (5 fights this year). The Avalanche need this. As a team, they have lacked passion on the ice. I think Downie is a terrific fit for the team - he can provide some pop, some grit, some hustle, some toughness and, yes, a little bit of nasty. The Avalanche don't have nasty, and I think every team needs a small level of that.
I've read the comments and know that a lot of you think we could have gotten more for Quincey. I disagree; I think Downie is just about right for the return. I, for one, am ecstatic about the trade and that is not a reaction I have very often when it comes to Avalanche trades. The thought of Downie and Landeskog running over opponents together or Downie riding shotgun to protect Stastny and Duchene is a warm thought indeed. I like this move. In the short term, the Avalanche get offense and grit for a potential playoff run. And, if they ultimately fall short, Downie is a young player who can play a roll in the perennial rebuild. That's a win in my book.
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Spot on, DDC
Not going to hate on Quincey on his way out of town. He’ll be better served as a 3/4 instead of the 1/2 he was expected to be here. And it isn’t the Avalanche’s fault that Detroit overpaid for him.
Bottom line is, if the Avs had dealt Quincey for that pick, we’d be okay with the drafted player turning out to be a Steve Downie clone. Downie is yet another piece the Avs didn’t have in the lineup before today. Sherman’s asset management sucks, but he’s gradually adding “pieces”. Also read on Twitter that Duchene and Downie showed chemistry during the 2010 World Championships; maybe Sherman has been looking into this for awhile.
Two enthusiastic thumbs up.
Rock over London, rock on Chicago. Wheaties, breakfast of champions.
totally agree. also, excellent handle
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 7:49 PM MST up reply actions
Agreed, DDC.
I read the caption on the photo, at first glance, thought it said, ‘the game was postponed due to
lightning issues’.
...holy freaking f*ck, snakes!
by 7sky on Feb 21, 2012 9:19 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Love the trade. Too many kittens and too few tigers on this team. The addition of Downie changes that. Now we have some grit on both of our top 2 lines. I wanted Simmonds but Downie is a good alternative.
Duchene-Stastny-Downie
Landy-O’Reily-Muller
by CMM09 on Feb 21, 2012 7:43 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
Too many kittens and too few tigers on this team.
well said
DDC is deeply embedded throughout this blog. For better or worse, his taint taints us all.
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Feb 21, 2012 7:45 PM MST up reply actions
Dater agree 100% though its tigers and bunnies (with stripes)
http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2012/02/21/the-quincey-downie-trade-who-won/9719/
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 7:49 PM MST up reply actions
I’ve said that forever but no one takes me seriously.
by Pinchy The Lobster on Feb 21, 2012 8:01 PM MST up reply actions
Sure Hejduk’s been lacking in his production, but I don’t think he gets demoted to the Jay-Mac 3rd line… certainly not as Mueller is out
I'm such a huge fan of the Avs I can name who our goalie was FOUR seasons ago! Crazy, right?!
by Guitarpick8120 on Feb 21, 2012 8:28 PM MST up reply actions
It will be interesting to see how the Highlander feels. During the inaugural season with the LEM, we played the then Philly Phantoms. Downie ran someone (can’t remember who) from behind. He & Highlander had a pretty good tilt. I think Downie got a game misconduct. Even after the fight, McLeod was, shall we say, not enthusiastic about Downie’s play…
Not long afterwards he got the 20 games for the incident with the linesman.
I agree with the article but because of his past (as an opponent) choose wait and see, even though he was a much younger (and equally immature) guy then…
Downie has 10 so far this year? I bet he gets 6-7 more before the year is out
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 7:53 PM MST reply actions
Considering Downie’s past, I’m not a fan of this trade. However, I think “hate” is too strong a word, so I chose “wait and see,” but my feelings on this are far from “love it.” If Downie consistently shows that he can be gritty without playing dirty, I may warm-up to it.
"They called tripping!? Where did THAT happen?"
"On the ice."
".........my...brain hurts...."
by StoneCutter013 on Feb 21, 2012 7:55 PM MST via mobile reply actions
LOLOLOLOLOl
Downie to wear #27
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 7:56 PM MST reply actions
yikes, really?
DDC is deeply embedded throughout this blog. For better or worse, his taint taints us all.
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Feb 21, 2012 8:04 PM MST up reply actions
Avs roster page has him with #27. As AJ put it, saving $ on jerseys
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 8:12 PM MST up reply actions
Expect a few electrical tape jersey fouls in the stands.
Sherman, set the WABAC machine to 1995. We'll bring back Sakic and Forsberg in their primes!
by Busted Twigg on Feb 21, 2012 10:26 PM MST up reply actions
Anyone else going to the game tomorrow? I’m kind of excited to see Downie play rather than Quincey… If that is plan at least. Think he will play tomorrow?
Focus on 8th
yes he’s playing
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 8:03 PM MST up reply actions
I can’t wait to go to the game tomorrow. Almost 2 months since seeing Dutchy at the Can? Excited
I'm such a huge fan of the Avs I can name who our goalie was FOUR seasons ago! Crazy, right?!
by Guitarpick8120 on Feb 21, 2012 8:30 PM MST up reply actions
I’ll be there too. Last time I saw them play the Kings we got thrashed 5-0 or something and it sucked a ton.
It will surely be awesome to see Duchene back. I’ll be wearing my #9 that’s for sure.
by THEKINGOFHOCKEY on Feb 21, 2012 9:03 PM MST up reply actions
I was at the same game last season...
I don’t have the monetary terms to sit anywhere but 3rd deck usually, but I got free tickets that game in a box… As most true Avs fans would agree, I could care less sitting in that box cause the W is always more important than where you get to see the outcome, which didnt happen. I remember Kopitar just having his way with us that game, it was awful. This game WILL NOT be a repeat, seeing as we have Downie now haha
Focus on 8th
by avsfanatic33 on Feb 21, 2012 10:15 PM MST up reply actions
Downie, by the way, is from the same town as Brian Elliott
DDC is deeply embedded throughout this blog. For better or worse, his taint taints us all.
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Feb 21, 2012 8:17 PM MST reply actions
I like the trade. Stop trying to ruin it for me
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 8:17 PM MST up reply actions
Maybe they spent the night together and listen to records…
by Pinchy The Lobster on Feb 21, 2012 8:19 PM MST up reply actions
He also played 17 games in Kitchner….
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
Footer: We'll miss seeing you clear the riff raff off your lawn.
by Americanario on Feb 21, 2012 8:35 PM MST up reply actions
The Avalanche need this. As a team, they have lacked passion on the ice. I think Shane O’Brien is a terrific fit for the team – he can provide some pop, some grit, some hustle, some toughness and, yes, a little bit of nasty. The Avalanche don’t have nasty, and I think every team needs a small level of that.
Aha! I thought that sounded familiar.
At exactly what point do you start to realize that life without knowledge is death in disguise?
Exactly. I love that “don’t fuck with us” attitude SOB brings in our zone. How about a little of that in front of THEIR goalie for a change?
I'm such a huge fan of the Avs I can name who our goalie was FOUR seasons ago! Crazy, right?!
by Guitarpick8120 on Feb 21, 2012 8:31 PM MST up reply actions
For tomorrow night
Landeskog – OReilly – Duchene
Downie – Stasnty – Hejduk (if he works in the crease, expect some more sick sauce passes from stats)
Suba – VDG – Jones
Winnik – McC – McLeod
Ill be curious to see if Big Willie is back with EJ or if they put Elliott with EJ, since he’s played so well of late
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 8:31 PM MST reply actions
I’m not sure putting EJ with the rookie is a good idea.
I’d say:
EJ / Wils
SOB / Elliott
Hejda / ROB
looks pretty good. O’Brien seems to play well with the rooks anyway.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs and writes for Mile High Hockey.
I can get behind this
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 8:36 PM MST up reply actions
You could jiggle any of those bottom 4 and I’m behind it, Hejda is probably more likely to play with Elliott.
Peter McNabb thinks I'm outstanding.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Feb 21, 2012 8:57 PM MST up reply actions
You would break up Hejda and ROB?
by LeonardoC6 on Feb 21, 2012 9:06 PM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
yes.
Peter McNabb thinks I'm outstanding.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Feb 21, 2012 9:17 PM MST up reply actions
Interesting, is there a particular reason to split them up or is putting Hejda and Elliott together the main draw?
by LeonardoC6 on Feb 21, 2012 9:23 PM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
Elliott has to be in the top 4 to be effective, if he can do it is what will make or break him.
Peter McNabb thinks I'm outstanding.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Feb 21, 2012 9:26 PM MST up reply actions
Slightly disagree
He needs to be on the 2nd PP unit to be effective, which he will now that Quincey is gone.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
NO
"I see now that the circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant; it is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are." - Mewtwo
by ProfessorOak on Feb 21, 2012 11:39 PM MST up reply actions
I’m not really sure why Hejda/O’Byrne are getting listed as out #3 pairing. They are clearly out shutdown pair, and were opening EJ and Quincey/SOB to do more in the offensive end.
In fact Sacco uses them like #1-D and EJ/Quincey as #1-O. not sure who fills that role now. Maybe Elliott starts in EJ’s O-zone starts, and SOB with him in D?
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Feb 21, 2012 9:29 PM MST up reply actions
This was my though. As a defender at heart I love what they bring to the Avs. Great shutdown pair
by LeonardoC6 on Feb 21, 2012 9:32 PM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
Is Olver still up or did I miss him getting sent back down? Then again, not sure I’d play him on the 4th line
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
Footer: We'll miss seeing you clear the riff raff off your lawn.
by Americanario on Feb 21, 2012 8:37 PM MST up reply actions
Oh my mistake, forgot Olver…. maybe:
Landy-OReilly-Hejduk
Downie-Stazz- Jones
Olver-Duchene- Subasew
Winnik -McC – VDG
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 8:39 PM MST up reply actions
I’m not a fan of sticking Dutchy with Olver and Subaru. Dutchy + Olver + player who scores? Sure. But that’s not Kobasew.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs and writes for Mile High Hockey.
Duchene stays on the wing I think.
Landy/O’R/Hej
Dutchy/SoS/Downie
olver/mcC/winnik
Peter McNabb thinks I'm outstanding.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Feb 21, 2012 8:59 PM MST up reply actions
I like this. This works.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs and writes for Mile High Hockey.
In case anyone's interested
These were the lines at practice:
Duchene – O’Reilly – Landeskog
Jones – Stastny – Hejduk
Olver – Winnik – Porter
McLeod – VDG – McClem – Kobasew
I suspect that if Downie hits the top six, it will be in Jones’ place. Jones takes Porter’s slot. Porter and one of McLeod/Kobasew/VDG are in the press box. Otherwise, Downie takes Porter’s spot straight up with the same end result.
When hell freezes over, I'll play hockey there, too.
Mile High Hockey - Asst. Editor
The Hockey Writers - Avalanche Correspondent
by Cheryl Bradley on Feb 22, 2012 4:46 AM MST up reply actions
I’d think that McLeod gets some nacho time tonight.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs and writes for Mile High Hockey.
this would work for tomorrow.
by Do Not Feed the Octopus on Feb 21, 2012 8:40 PM MST up reply actions
I’m still not wild about the trade, but I’m starting to warm up to it. I’ve gone from really disliking it during my shocked phase to just wanting to see Downie play before I even think about getting into the pro or con camp.
Still, this trade today hit me a bit like a semi-truck. And yes, I do in fact know exactly what it’s like to be hit by a semi-truck. (No, I wasn’t driving – I was in the backseat on the side that got smooshed. And yes, there were really bad road conditions involved. And no, no one was seriously injured even though the car was totaled.) I just hope the Avs come out of this one at least unscathed. Who knows? We might even come out ahead.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs and writes for Mile High Hockey.
after becoming a HUGE Downie fan in last years playoffs… I think you will be a very happy camper very soon
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 8:33 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah he has been deeper in the playoffs than anyone on the team if I am not mistaken. Besides Hejduk obviously..
Yeah, I don’t think the jumper-cables in that box on the hood are going to help you out there.
Seriously, though, that’s crazy. Glad you’re OK. When was that?
I'm such a huge fan of the Avs I can name who our goalie was FOUR seasons ago! Crazy, right?!
by Guitarpick8120 on Feb 21, 2012 8:34 PM MST up reply actions
December ‘09. It happened a day after my grandmother’s funeral. I was also recovering from being bedridden that previous week from mono at the time.
Let’s just say that it wasn’t a very fun Winter Break.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs and writes for Mile High Hockey.
I recommend you don’t turn in front of a semi again.
Peter McNabb thinks I'm outstanding.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Feb 21, 2012 9:00 PM MST up reply actions
It wasn’t a turn. The slush turned to ice, we fishtailed and slammed into a concrete barrier. Three second later, the semi t-boned us.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs and writes for Mile High Hockey.
Love it
So this is why I didn’t see DDC comment much in the other thread. (BTW did you get my e-mail?)
negative ghost rider
DDC is deeply embedded throughout this blog. For better or worse, his taint taints us all.
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Feb 21, 2012 9:07 PM MST up reply actions
pattern is full
Mile High Hockey - Lucy is a b*tch
by MalachiConstant on Feb 22, 2012 6:22 AM MST up reply actions
Potential Lines
If everybody is healthy…
jones-stastny-hejduk
olver-o’reilly-landeskog
mueller-duchene-downie
winnik-mcclement-galiardi
That leaves out Mccloed, kobasew, porter, vdg. You could always put vdg in over galiardi or something but those lines could be pretty potent
by Do Not Feed the Octopus on Feb 21, 2012 8:35 PM MST reply actions
Most Def
I guess the question is.. (Will Avs put Kobasew on waivers.. I would love to lose him that way just as a lesson.)
cant. salary
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 8:37 PM MST up reply actions
We’ve got just about $1 mil to play with in order to stay over the floor if my math is correct.
I think I’m actually going to ask Capgeek about it, just to make sure.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs and writes for Mile High Hockey.
Actually, we have about $3 to play with.
Obviously Capgeek knows more about salary voodoo than we do.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs and writes for Mile High Hockey.
Well, our salary is at about $49.3 right now. So he really wasn’t that off-base. But things get weird at the end of the year.
That’s why we have Capgeek, also known as the site that is going to frustrate the crap out of me in 6 days when it completely shuts down from too much traffic.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs and writes for Mile High Hockey.
If Olver struggles Galiardi plays with O’Reilly & Landy (We really need a name for those two.. Getting tired of typing both their names every time I want to mention one. lol)
DVG plays on the 4th.. That is my hopes as far as backup option..
KogDar? Land’O?
I'm such a huge fan of the Avs I can name who our goalie was FOUR seasons ago! Crazy, right?!
by Guitarpick8120 on Feb 21, 2012 8:59 PM MST up reply actions
KogDar sounds too much like Trogdor, and we already have one of those.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs and writes for Mile High Hockey.
What chu talkin' bout?
I'm such a huge fan of the Avs I can name who our goalie was FOUR seasons ago! Crazy, right?!
by Guitarpick8120 on Feb 21, 2012 9:08 PM MST up reply actions
Honest question here… what has Kobasew done to warrant being waived? He’s been good in his role.
Mile High Hockey: Best Avs blog on the internet..... maybe.
agreed
Peter McNabb thinks I'm outstanding.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Feb 21, 2012 9:23 PM MST up reply actions
agree completely
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 9:30 PM MST up reply actions
I think you swap jones and stastny for muel/duchene. but then again, when everyone’s healthy (hah, i almost finished typing that without laughing) three potentially scoring lines is a lovely thought
I'm such a huge fan of the Avs I can name who our goalie was FOUR seasons ago! Crazy, right?!
by Guitarpick8120 on Feb 21, 2012 8:41 PM MST up reply actions
This will be fun
Hi Folks! Long time reader, first time commenter. Love the trade, KQ has been dead weight lately. I thought it would be fitting if Downie got Claude Lemieux’s #22, but Scott Parker’s #27 will be just fine.
by Special Patrol Group on Feb 21, 2012 8:35 PM MST reply actions
There is also the fact Kyle Quincy wore #27 as well
by LeonardoC6 on Feb 21, 2012 8:39 PM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
you’d be like the third long time reader, first time commenter this week. (I think the other was Landy Time?)
Meow-valanche. Prrr-valanche.
What pisses me off the most
Now Andi’s x-men photoshop for the Defense just got delayed. My week just got ruined
Quincey can just be Cyclops, since they killed him off anyway (in the movies that is)
Datsyuk may have done it first, but he learned it from Peter Forsberg.
Thanks for everything Foppa!
Footer: We'll miss seeing you clear the riff raff off your lawn.
by Americanario on Feb 21, 2012 8:40 PM MST up reply actions
I wasn’t even working on it anyway. You’ll just have to be content with the Avengers for now.
Although it’s starting to look like we just got our long-term replacement for Nick Fury.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs and writes for Mile High Hockey.
Question for the group. Do you all agree that the avs are best long term with Duchene at center? 3 solid centers would make for 3 great lines. Both Stastny and O’Reilly are solid defensively and Duchene when he is going right is electrifying
by Do Not Feed the Octopus on Feb 21, 2012 8:43 PM MST reply actions
depends what other top 6 we can get
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 8:43 PM MST up reply actions
i’m of the thought that you already have 3 good centers so go and plug wingers around him. Keep your core guys happy and add around them.
by Do Not Feed the Octopus on Feb 21, 2012 8:49 PM MST up reply actions
Ideally that is why we would do. However when teams are scoring goals and winning, guys will be happy. We have two guy with 15 goals as our goal scoring leaders.
by avalanchejef on Feb 21, 2012 8:53 PM MST up reply actions
I still think the “experiment” didn’t last long enough to say one way or another. He had a really great game, then one where he was invisible. If it’s something they commit to over the summer and Matt has time to develop and adjust his game accordingly, I’m perfectly fine with him being a sniping/dangling winger.
I'm such a huge fan of the Avs I can name who our goalie was FOUR seasons ago! Crazy, right?!
by Guitarpick8120 on Feb 21, 2012 8:45 PM MST up reply actions
I really do not want to see Duchene @ wing long term.
He put up 67 points there his second year.. He was ok at wing here and there but Duchene likes to carry the puck and create plays to much to be on the wing. It would be a loss for us..
I am also in the keep all 3 and make 3 amazing lines camp.. After that ice time depends on play and match-ups.
But we tried that. In the end, the O’Reilly line will just end up getting all the ice time because they will outplay the others again. Might as well put Duchene with Stastny and try to give them as much ice time as they can get when O’Reilly and Landy take a breather.
4th biggest pessimist of MHH.
"There's always next season." -- Jimmy Howard on not winning the Calder Trophy.
So I just read through Dater's write-up
Andy for Elliott? Dater was on a plane.
Johnson blockbuster? Dater had gone to bed.
Downie for Quincey? Dater was taking a nap.
I think Avs brass wait until he isn’t picking up the phone, and then in hurried whispers say QUICKQUICKPULLTHEPLUGNOW
At exactly what point do you start to realize that life without knowledge is death in disguise?
I like his comment about taking a nap so get off his #@$. Never a good thing to say after taking a nap.
by avalanchejef on Feb 21, 2012 8:55 PM MST up reply actions
So, we can never let Dater go to sleep?
by Inebriated Simian Miscreants on Feb 22, 2012 7:39 AM MST up reply actions
For those who don't like this trade
Steve Downie has more points this year than Chris Stewart. 12g 16a vs 11g 11a. So it makes me further believe that we won the St. Louis trade
My Johnson is better than your Johnson.
I’m starting to see Downie as our Stewart upgrade. Downie may have fewer points in his career and he may have a heck of a lot more PIMs, but I think that they could easily serve the same role on the team.
Please, oh please let Downie get some chemistry going with Stazz and Dutch. Having him on that line could be magic.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs and writes for Mile High Hockey.
Downie is a boss. He brings it every night I’ve seen him play, guy is a competitor
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 9:26 PM MST up reply actions
I may have to watch a game of his tonight. Any suggestions?
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs and writes for Mile High Hockey.
Any tampa playoff games after the 1st round really
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 10:26 PM MST up reply actions
Stewart…upgrade? Oh lord the kool aid has reached new levels. How’s about we actually watch him play a game or 20 before anointing him an improvement on Stewart.
Stewie is having issues this year, but that doesn’t make him a downgrade on downie anymore than Stastny’s down year made him worse than Grabo, as all the leafs fans spewed at us. Let’s not be leafs fans.
I have watched both for years now and I can say with some authority that Downie is definetly Stewart +. No one has EVER questioned Downie’s effort on the ice and I have seen plenty games (especially this year) where Chris has appeared to be floating on the ice more then once in a game. Another thing you’ll never here about Downie is that he is a locker room cancer (something to a lesser extent was said numorous times about Stewart). I think IF and thats a big IF, Chris ever gets his shit together, his offsensive upside is much higher then Downie’s but I think he will never have the grit or determination (see: work ethic) that Steve has and should continue to have. They are both very young in NHL terms so there’s still a lot of room for both to grow.
by Hobbes Hiltz on Feb 22, 2012 10:16 AM MST up reply actions
if your only definition of “+” is effort, sure, Downie is superior to Stewie in that regard.
if we’re talking about goalscoring, Stewart has scored at 26 goals / 82 game pace over his career. Downie scores at a 17g / 82 games pace. that’s definitely not “Stewie +.” Or if we’re talking about raw size (yes, it actually matters, just ask Porter), Downie is 5’11" 190. Stewie is 6’2" 228. that’s a huge difference in front of the net, protecting the puck, driving the net, etc.
It’s not that Stewie has more offensive potential than Downie, though he certainly does, he’s simply better offensively right now. All this about intangibles that makes him somehow better than Stewie, I think people are reaching trying to justify this move. It’s production that matters, not effort. McLeod works insanely hard but he’s not better than Stewart because he sucks. Scoring goals wins games, not hard work.
Hard work opens thing up for your linemates, but the ability to do something with the puck (something Cody will never be accused of doing) from the hard work is the difference. Downie is an excellent passer and unfortunately has been injured quite a bit (hello, Avs.). I don’t count + as just effort. What i never liked though about Chris was he floated, WAY TOO MUCH! Your job as a forward is to score and if your not scoring t the very least you should be making plays. They both have a small sample size and like I said in my closing sentence, they both have a lot of room to grow (3 years in the NHL is too short a judge imo, especially when it hasn’t been full seasons). Just from what I’ve seen from both players, Downie will be a much more valuable player then Chris will be given his set of skills (which are far less common then what Chris brings). It’s these skills that the Avs could really use.
by Hobbes Hiltz on Feb 22, 2012 11:50 AM MST up reply actions
If Downie is such a massively better passer and creates so much more for his linemates, why does he have less assists in more games than Stewart?
I’m sorry, I still see nothing but you wishing and hoping that Downie will be better than Stewart was here. There’s no statistical support for that whatsoever.
One thing that takes away from his assist is his TOI. Like I’ve said before I’ve watched both players extensively over the past few years and stats do not tell the story for either player. Whether Downie is better the Stewart in all honesty is a moot point anyways. It’s not like the two were traded for each other and although Stewart was possibly the best player of recent that Downie could be compared two, they are not the same player. I base my opinion on what my eyes tell me and not what stats say to think (hi +/-). If you think I’m wishing so be it, I hate stats so I guess my opinion is what it is.
by Hobbes Hiltz on Feb 22, 2012 2:45 PM MST up reply actions
You are welcome to your opinion. Just don’t expect me to agree with it simply because you say so. :)
I do agree that comparing Downie to Stewart is a little pointless, but hey, I wasn’t the one that made the initial comparison.
Hey, I hope for nothing but the best for Downie. I hope he doesn’t play like the little shithead he’s proven to be in the past. I hope he turns into a top 6 stalwart, the new Claude Lemieux. His stats and what I’ve seen of him don’t exactly have my hopes up.
I don’t know much of anything about Downie, but to me he seems like another Gali or maybe a Gali+. I am not sure if this team got alot better with this trade. I think we added forward depth, but I don’t know if another 15 to 20 goal scorer is all that more helpful we have that in Gali or even potentially Olver. I would rather have seen a more prolific scorer come in.
My brother and I used to say that drowning in beer was like heaven, eh. Now he's not here and I got two soakers, this isn't heaven, this sucks.
I think Galiolver is a great way to describe Downie based on his stats alone, actually…. I haven’t seen him play much though
At exactly what point do you start to realize that life without knowledge is death in disguise?
It seems like Downie keeps getting described the same way Gali did during the SJ playoff series. That is why I feel like we added a piece we already had. I hope this trade pans out and Downie makes a big step and becomes a great player. However I am just wondering if all we did was add another 3rd line player with some scoring ability say about 16 to 18 goals and 25 to maybe 30 assists per year.
My brother and I used to say that drowning in beer was like heaven, eh. Now he's not here and I got two soakers, this isn't heaven, this sucks.
If Downie does pan out, Gali is gonesville, that’s for damn sure
At exactly what point do you start to realize that life without knowledge is death in disguise?
For this year at least, Duchene is going to stay on the wing, they just don’t have enough depth, even after this trade. I’m better with dutchy at the wing and porter a 4th ling center then having MD at 3rd line center.
Peter McNabb thinks I'm outstanding.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Feb 21, 2012 9:04 PM MST reply actions
How so..?
We have enough depth to have McC – Winnik on the 4th line now if Mueller – Duchene – Downie is made into a line and Jones – Stastny – Hejduk (Which worked) is put back together. I think Olver needs more time with O’Reilly considering how he played in the first game.
I don’t place a whole lot of trust in Olver’s proformence, if he can keep it up for at least 20 games then I’d think about it, but for now it’s the imaginary awesomeness of Olver, much like Yip’s early preformance. Do you really want to move Mclemment down to the 4th line? probably not. The avs have 5 centers to play 4 spots normally (with porter as the 6th center), I think that’s a good situation.
Peter McNabb thinks I'm outstanding.
by An Unmitigated Disaster on Feb 21, 2012 9:23 PM MST up reply actions
Alright, I’m going to go skate for an hour. Let me know if Sherman pulls the trigger on any other big moves.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs and writes for Mile High Hockey.
Sherman just pulled the trigger!
damn clay pigeon had it comin, I say
At exactly what point do you start to realize that life without knowledge is death in disguise?
They do nothing! They don’t even eat… flies!
I'm such a huge fan of the Avs I can name who our goalie was FOUR seasons ago! Crazy, right?!
by Guitarpick8120 on Feb 21, 2012 9:10 PM MST up reply actions
EXACTLY
At exactly what point do you start to realize that life without knowledge is death in disguise?
Useless fuckers! At least Hunwick eats the nachos.
by LeonardoC6 on Feb 21, 2012 9:27 PM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
Uh... eh... Did I leave the gas on?
No! No—I’m a fucking squirrel!
I'm such a huge fan of the Avs I can name who our goalie was FOUR seasons ago! Crazy, right?!
by Guitarpick8120 on Feb 21, 2012 9:34 PM MST up reply actions
OF COURSE NOT IM A FUKKEN SQUIRREL
At exactly what point do you start to realize that life without knowledge is death in disguise?
um, cake please.
At exactly what point do you start to realize that life without knowledge is death in disguise?
Well, we’re OUTTA cake! We only had three bits and we weren’t expecting such a rush!
Thanks, Joe... Thanks, Peter.... Thanks, Adam....
So my choice is “or Death?” Well I’ll have the chicken, then!
I'm such a huge fan of the Avs I can name who our goalie was FOUR seasons ago! Crazy, right?!
by Guitarpick8120 on Feb 21, 2012 9:48 PM MST up reply actions
YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG
At exactly what point do you start to realize that life without knowledge is death in disguise?
Better Sherman than Foppa, apparently.
BTW, watch that link. It’s a late ’95 just post-Roy trade Forsberg interview where he shoots claybirds at the end with Deader. Pure gold.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs and writes for Mile High Hockey.
There were some really cheap tickets on stubhub for this game last time I looked, if anyone wants to see Downie in action. Mine were $7 dollars each, when I bought them for my boyfriend’s Valentine’s Day present.
Granted, we’re literally in the worst seats in the can buuut…
by THEKINGOFHOCKEY on Feb 21, 2012 9:06 PM MST reply actions
That is still super cheap, love hockey that way.. Not many bad seats in the house. (Fuck baseball.. Need binos to see what is going on in the nose bleeds)
Yeah I agree, even though the seats aren’t great, they really aren’t awful. And it’ll still be super kickass and way more fun than….getting a chocolate fountain or going to a love tunnel or something
by THEKINGOFHOCKEY on Feb 21, 2012 9:12 PM MST up reply actions
Well Chocolate fountain depends on what you do with it.. But if my girl picked a hockey game over a love tunnel. Yeah I would probably be head over heals. haha
Uh… What is a love tunnel? Should I know this?
by LeonardoC6 on Feb 21, 2012 9:24 PM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
being in a love tunnel is probably the only thing I would do over hockey.
The best is when you can visit the love tunnel and watch hockey at the same time.
My brother and I used to say that drowning in beer was like heaven, eh. Now he's not here and I got two soakers, this isn't heaven, this sucks.
That is so dirty..
Either I would feel bad for being distracted after paying to see a game.. Or feel bad for being distracted while visiting the love tunnel and paying more attention to the game.
Either way sounds like a fail..
Who says you have to be distracted, if both parties were hockey fans, you could stare at the game whilst blindly groping about…
…yep, took that one too far
by THEKINGOFHOCKEY on Feb 21, 2012 9:47 PM MST up reply actions
Who says you have to be distracted, if both parties were hockey fans
This is why god created doggy style
My brother and I used to say that drowning in beer was like heaven, eh. Now he's not here and I got two soakers, this isn't heaven, this sucks.
by cush52 on Feb 21, 2012 9:49 PM MST up reply actions 5 recs
Should I rec this or flag it? Damn you Cush!
"When you believe, the unbelievable can happen." -Tim Tebow
by Lost Winter on Feb 21, 2012 10:26 PM MST up reply actions
I think the worst thing about you is how BAD you are at this game! Everyone else has their clever little double/triple/quadruple-entendres. Or they almost cross the line but they don’t quite go over, like the sexy Price is Right. And it’s funny, see? But you try to do it and it’s, like, THUD. Please go on a vision quest and come back wittier.
(TL;DR DON’T CREEP ON MY LITTLE SISTER)
by Yammy on Feb 21, 2012 11:29 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe it’s time I started looking into this “God” guy…
by Pinchy The Lobster on Feb 22, 2012 12:54 AM MST up reply actions
He’s cool…and he’s not Jimmy Howard as many have speculated.
by quietstorm560 on Feb 22, 2012 1:40 AM MST up reply actions
Complete Side note
I do not get why people like Wilson more than Quincey. That’s absolutely bonkers. Wilson is highly protected in Sacco’s lineup. I like the kid, he hits hard and plays hard, but I think some people really over-value him.
Quincey was a solid #3 Defenseman (who will be playing #5.. yeesh). Downie is a borderline 2/3 liner. Yeah he brings an element the Avs are missing, but it’s not goal scoring. I realize he becomes our 5th leading scorer… right in front of David Jones, whose been a massive disappointment
Seems like we just traded for mediocre with a mean streak. .
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Feb 21, 2012 9:27 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
I guess the thing that keeps me up about Downie is that at least he is still young and does have a 20 goal season in his first full season in the NHL.
Jones had 27.
Downie also had a PDO of 1032. His personal shooting percentage was 19% that season, which is utterly unsustainable (in subsequent seasons it’s been ~12% for him)
I’m not seeing how this is much of an upgrade over Jones to be honest. And Jones has been brutal.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Feb 21, 2012 9:35 PM MST up reply actions
He has never had a season under 12.. and 12 is actually pretty good. I responded about the perspective taken when it comes to each player below.
He’s played 1 full season… like Jones!
In anywhere close to a full season, he hasn’t scored less than 12… like Jones (including this season FWIW)
Career PPG: Jones – .475
Downie – .492
Honestly, That’s not much of an upgrade.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Feb 21, 2012 9:40 PM MST up reply actions
when you add the hitting, PIMs and heart i think it is
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 9:42 PM MST up reply actions
His upgrade is that he still has potential.. As well as brings more to the ice each game than scoring.
Jibbs you usually don’t look at things that one dimensionally.
Technically.. to be an upgrade or a downgrade in talking about Jones he would need to replace him. But Jones is still here..
i suppose we’ll talk about that on monday then
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 9:44 PM MST up reply actions
My point is more we don’t need more players like Jones.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Feb 21, 2012 9:50 PM MST up reply actions
i agree, which is why they went out and got a guy who actually plays with his heart on his sleeve
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 9:51 PM MST up reply actions
Im worried about Downie’s real talent. Im worried about inflated numbers playing with far more talented players. I just won’t make any assumptions until I see him on this team.
Thanks, Joe... Thanks, Peter.... Thanks, Adam....
fair enough. I loved Downie in the playoffs last year, so i feel good about the move but of course, gotta see how he fits and see how this all plays out
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 9:58 PM MST up reply actions
Really? the knock on Jones has never been he doesn’t play hard. Thatt’s why he was getting injured, by going to tough areas.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Feb 21, 2012 9:55 PM MST up reply actions
really? I’ve had a very big knock on Jones for not playing hard. He shies away from contact too often and coasts on the backcheck. Only game I’ve LOVED him was minnesota when he finally got pissed
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 9:56 PM MST up reply actions
I agree. Everyone has been talking about how Jones is not a fit for the top 6, but would be a good 3rd liner if he would start hitting.
Well, now we have Downie to fit that role.
Thanks, Joe... Thanks, Peter.... Thanks, Adam....
Fine, but we lost a legit #3 defenseman for it. Not worth it IMO.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Feb 21, 2012 9:54 PM MST up reply actions
I would rather have Detroit’s 1st round pick instead of Downie, but I hope I eat those words.
My brother and I used to say that drowning in beer was like heaven, eh. Now he's not here and I got two soakers, this isn't heaven, this sucks.
we could do more with Detroit’s 1st than Detroit can
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 9:59 PM MST up reply actions
Actually.. It would be 2 years probably before we would even know how it would turn out.
Downie.. better than a late 1st IMO
Downie.. better than a late 1st IMOPeople seem to think we are not in win now mode.. We are not in contend now mode.. But we are in win now and continue to build mode. Which means pieces that are not going to help us until 2-3 years out are slightly less important than giving this current core some winning culture.
I’m not sure it is either; and I’m not really defending the trade. I just want to point out that this almost certainly isn’t some second coming of CGDS, Flash-pre-lung-explosion, or the like. Those guys all had better talent than Downie to begin with.
Thanks, Joe... Thanks, Peter.... Thanks, Adam....
I’m not looking at them one dimensionally, he adds possession, yes (not more than Quincey though). But he loses it all in taking more penalties than he gets drawn.
I don’t like it.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Feb 21, 2012 9:48 PM MST up reply actions
Those are good points.. Hopefully that is where coaching comes in. (No I do not want to get into another argument about Sacco) Jones holds us over until the off season and then leaves. Or he improves and stays in the top 6. Cant really go to wrong IMO.. We needed another top 9 forward even with Olver showing up again IMO.
Mueller and Fleischmann were both mediocre when we traded for em right?
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 9:32 PM MST up reply actions
We traded away Wolski for Mueller (& Porter), so that’s worth a gamble.
The Flash trade is hard to judge, he didn’t play that long before injury.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Feb 21, 2012 9:36 PM MST up reply actions
I’m just saying this organization has a knack for scouting talent and chemisty. No one brought into this team via trade in the SHerman era has had bad team chemistry. Pieces just seem to fit, it gives me a lot of confidence in downie
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 9:40 PM MST up reply actions
I’m just saying this organization has a knack for scouting talent and chemisty.
Not sure everyone would agree with you on that one Cole. I am thinking of one in particular.
My brother and I used to say that drowning in beer was like heaven, eh. Now he's not here and I got two soakers, this isn't heaven, this sucks.
who’s that?
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 9:52 PM MST up reply actions
cool breeze, remember we can’t draft for shit in the 1st or 2nd rounds.
My brother and I used to say that drowning in beer was like heaven, eh. Now he's not here and I got two soakers, this isn't heaven, this sucks.
oh i thought you meant someone the team had specifically brought in that didnt fit
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 10:00 PM MST up reply actions
Kevin Weekes just had an interesting point on NHL Live. Downie basically rode shotgun with Stamkos in TB. Hopefully that translates into linemate for Dutchy. Also, he mentioned that he and Stamkos worked out with Gary Roberts over the summer. Wouldn’t mind at all if some of the Avs jumped on that bandwagon. It’s paying huge dividends for Stamkos and others
by Do Not Feed the Octopus on Feb 21, 2012 9:29 PM MST reply actions
Downie is a hard worker committed to being a player in this league. His mean streak is not just evidence of some bad discipline, but also that he really really cares about this game, about his teamates and about winning. The fact that he takes on the insane Gary Roberts training regiment is great evidence of that
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 9:31 PM MST up reply actions
and his PPG is a whopping .51. The guy everyone wants to get rid of, Jones, is .46 this season.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Feb 21, 2012 9:32 PM MST up reply actions
.51 with the hitting, work ethic and mean streak vs .46 with the ability to be a stationary pylon on the ice
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 9:33 PM MST up reply actions
Not nearly all TB fans are happy about losing him and there was ZERO talk of him being traded. He was not a player on the outs at all..
I think the problem most people have with Jones is his lack of physical presence. If you won’t play like a power forward then you need to bring a scoring touch to remain on the top lines. He hasn’t.
Downie, on the other hand, brings this power forward type of play so his ppg will (hopefully) be less noticeable when you account for everything else he brings to the table.
by LeonardoC6 on Feb 21, 2012 9:37 PM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
I don’t really give a shit about physical presence if it doesn’t result in more shots on net/goals. In fact if it doesn’t it’s window dressing.
Look, Downie is better than Jones, and Downie’s got some decent underlying stats this year (RelCorsi ~+7 Ozone- 48%, RelQComp .438: )
Jones was playing relatively average competition and getting killed (Corsi -10)
I do think Downie is better than Jones. But not by a whole lot.
And I think any benefit he gets is downsized by the fact he takes a lot of penalties. He takes more than he gets drawin for him too. Being a player that makes the avs go on the PK more is not a good thing.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Feb 21, 2012 9:47 PM MST up reply actions
I know and I’m not saying he’s the permanent solution to our scoring woes but he will still be useful in the next 2-3 years. Good piece to have around in building a contender
by LeonardoC6 on Feb 21, 2012 9:53 PM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
Sure, maybe as a UFA. Not for a legit #3 D
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Feb 21, 2012 9:55 PM MST up reply actions
I was never very high on Quincy as a top 3 defenseman. I don’t play the advanced stats games so I wouldn’t know but no one on our defense made me more worried than he did.
I’m gonna believe my gut feeling that we weren’t screwed over on this one, as it rarely fails me. Besides, staying positive makes being a sports fan so much more fun.
by LeonardoC6 on Feb 21, 2012 10:02 PM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
Wilson, Elliott, Hunwick, and even O’Brien made me worry more than Quincey. Yeah he had some spectacular turnovers this season, but he also played some really solid defense, and offense too. I’d rather have that, coupled with the occasional gaffe, than a guy who consistently gets beat by better players but never makes that huge fuck-up.
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Feb 22, 2012 4:42 AM MST up reply actions
Quincey looks great when he’s on, but has too many walkabouts to be a true legit no. 3, imo. He is, as you say, a no. 5 in Detroit, and that’s likely as good a value check, as any. In any case, say we split the difference and call him a no. 4, and you rate Downie as a 2/3, it’s pretty much the same area of value.
...holy freaking f*ck, snakes!
Hey Gang, just remember that if we count on Downie to solve our top 6 woes, we may as well bring back Lindstrom. Or plan on Gally returning to top form. Sure, those things could pan out, but lets just be sure of what we know: Downie is on the same tier as Winnik, McClement, Galiardi, Jones, and McLeod. He can play upwards, but that doesn’t mean that he will or should. About the best we can hope for is that he is an insurance policy for our upcoming legit top 6. Beyond that, he is unproven until he finds another gear.
Thanks, Joe... Thanks, Peter.... Thanks, Adam....
Downie is a step above Winnik, McClement and Galiardi but over all i see your point, he’s a great 3rd liner who spot fills well on the PP or top 2 lines. I think there is more coming
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 9:43 PM MST up reply actions
What I am saying is that you can’t count on him coming in and re-making our top 6. If he’s getting significant time up there, without hitting an impressive gear, things aren’t going the way they should for us.
Thanks, Joe... Thanks, Peter.... Thanks, Adam....
The way he actually does remake our top 6 is by filling out a top 6 line. Mueller – Duchene – Downie
Do you really think so? Or are we just rationalizing this? Do we really WANT a top 6 with Downie in it? Or would we rather have a LEGIT top 6 with Downie waiting in the wings, ready to step in if needed?
O’Reilly, Landy, Mueller, Duchene, Stastny, Hejduk. When they are all healthy, who do you plan on bumping down?
Thanks, Joe... Thanks, Peter.... Thanks, Adam....
Raw Charge says to expect him in our top 6, specifically with Mueller and Duchene
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 9:52 PM MST up reply actions
Nice question sidestep, Cole.
I’m not going to bank on what Raw Charge says. I don’t know him, or what he values, or anything. And I don’t care enough to look him up. I am going to trust my own eyes when he gets here. But, based on his records, I have doubts. Everything points to the fact that he’s like Jones, except with more character. And thats fine; I like that a ton. We need dudes like that. I just don’t really want them in my top 6. I want guys that are going to put up 50 points a season consistently.
Im just saying that unless he hits another gear, hes nothing new or special. He is who he is. And we have better waiting for that top 6 already.
Thanks, Joe... Thanks, Peter.... Thanks, Adam....
not trying to sidestep, i didnt realize you were asking me specifically. I’ve said a few times, I expect him to play top 6 this season, get an upgrade in the summer and then play on the 3rd line spot filling on the 2nd line and PP unit.
I also expect our 3rd line to change a lot in the next year, I’m hoping that with Winger additions we’ll be seeing Duchene back at center for 3 lines
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 10:03 PM MST up reply actions
I actually think he may develop into that with some coaching. If a skilled line like Mueller and Duchene are put together you do need a little grit to protect and create space for those two. He is suppose to be good on the boards. Perfect for creating space for the other two with great shots and elite passing skill.
The fact that he can clean up around the net as well.. Adds to that dynamic..
LMAO
Raw Charge isn’t a person, let alone a guy, mfured, it’s the Lightning’s main blog. Fact is, Downie has played on either the #1 or #2 line over 90% of his career in Tampa.To base your opinion on his record, which you already stated your too lazy to look up enough about him, is pretty ridiculous. He brings a skillset that is seriously lacking on this team, grit. Name one palyer besides Landy that goes to the net on a consistent basis (and even Landy doesn’t do it as much as he should). Getting 45 shots a night is all fine and dandy but when they come from poor angles and the goalie can see 95% of them it doesn’t do a lick of good. If Downie was such a marginal player explain why he had the linemates he had throughout his career? Do the Avs put Cody Mc with Duchene and stats because he has some grit?
by Hobbes Hiltz on Feb 21, 2012 11:07 PM MST up reply actions
No, but they had Winnik on our leading scorer’s line for over half the season.
Furthermore, I DID look up his stats. All of them. From all of his time thru the minors til now. I never said I am “too lazy to look them up”. I said I put no stock in someone else’s opinion til I had seen for myself. In fact, Dan was nice enough to post up all of his shift percentages from the last two years:
Look at those stats. Yes, he has spent a significant amount of time on the same line as excellent players: Stamkos, LeCavalier, St. Louis. Most of his time, in fact. So you’re right. And you are telling me that, playing with three of the best players in the game, Downie can only muster 32 points in 10-11 playing with three guys that had 99, 54 (in 65 games), and 91 points respectively?
Sure, he was injured for a lot of that time. He only played 57 of 82 games that year. But in some ways that’s just as damning: St. Louis and Stamkos were much more productive when he was sitting injured in the box. That tells me that he’s far less talented than any of those other guys.
And that’s just what I said he is. He is less talented than a real top 6 should be. He should be able to fill in on a line like that if he has to, but he shouldn’t be leaned on for it. We need real scorers to fill in with those top guys. Duchene is lagging in production. Stastny needs someone as creative as he is. Mueller could break at any moment (when he comes back from being broken). Hejduk is on his way out. We need talent, not just grit. We need them both. Downie, so far, doesn’t look like he has both. He only has grit, with a little bit of sparkle. Which is perfect for a bottom 6 dude.
We don’t have that pure scoring drive-the-net guy. And, from what the stats tell me, Downie isn’t one either. He’s better than almost anything else we have, but that doesn’t mean we should settle for it.
Thanks, Joe... Thanks, Peter.... Thanks, Adam....
by mfured20 on Feb 22, 2012 12:32 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
By no means am I suggesting the Avs should settle for what they got. I personally think this team is at the very least 3-4 players away from being playoffs contenders on a consistent basis. This is an important offseason for this team and they have A LOT of players to either resign or let go. The Avs are going to look like a completely different team next season IMO. I think, and I base this opinion not on stats but on my years of following the Lightning and watching Downie first hand the past 3 years, stats do not tell the whole story on Steve. I think he can easily develop (he is only 24) into a solid 2nd line Winger. I do not think he should or ever will be a #1 line winger, his playset does not particularily fit that role. Most teams have 2 scoring lines, and those lines typically have vastily different looks to them (it’s much easier to defend clones then it is 2 vastily different style lines). This is where I think Downie’s fit is best. Look at some of the best offences in the league; Vancouver, Philly, Boston, they all have two distinctly different scoring lines that throw fits for other team’s defences. Hejduk is gone either this seaosn or the next, Mueller is probably not far behind (I hate to say it cause I really like him but his injuries are starting to catch up to him IMO). At the very least, I think Downie is easily the best winger if he falls to the 3rd line (which he probably will once everyone, knock on wood, is healthy).
by Hobbes Hiltz on Feb 22, 2012 10:35 AM MST up reply actions
His role is to bang along the boards, win puck battles and open up space for the skill guys. Think of Landeskog with added truculence. You want one of those players on each line.
Things to keep in mind. We are now closer than ever to the salary floor…. any other trades would have to be acquisitions… I am thinking there is more to this, just not sure how as of yet
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 9:44 PM MST reply actions
did anyone else spend part of the evening watching eh steve episodes of homestar after this? cause this girl did.
by Stachi on Feb 21, 2012 9:55 PM MST reply actions 2 recs
My favorite comment at Raw Charge:
All of Greg Sherman’s trades are stupid. This was a rare exception
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 9:57 PM MST reply actions
I wonder where Quincey was told he was traded to
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 10:08 PM MST reply actions
“Hey, so you were traded to the Toilet via a Lightning Bolt, you should be sure to pack a plunger and some nose plugs before you leave.”
by LeonardoC6 on Feb 21, 2012 10:13 PM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
One thing I’ve noticed as a theme throughout the year is everyone lauding Landeskog for playing hard game in and game out until the final horn (which implies that not everyone, particularly in the top 6, was) so now we’ve added a similar player that is potentially a little grittier and less talented in exchange for a guy that we all referred to as “Thing 2”.
You can talk about how important Quincy was all you want, but if that guy had a future in our top 4 on defense we’d be right and truly fucked. He’ll play 5-6 in Detroit giving them some depth then he’ll get a low offer sheet and look for work somewhere’s else this summer.
Andyray ArlyleCay
Important point. Very few people seem to remember that we once equated Quincey with Cumiskey
Cap Floor Team = Cap Floor Results
by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 10:14 PM MST up reply actions
And even fewer that a lot of those gaffes resulted from Cumiskey
He was a lot better without KC
At exactly what point do you start to realize that life without knowledge is death in disguise?
Fuck, who wouldn’t be….
I also wonder if the “bad in the locker room” reports weren’t somewhat true. The guy kind of seemed like a dick and I remember early on in his tenure that a lot of people thought of him this way. Cheryl would be a good one to ask with her knowledge of his Kings days, again this is PURELY CONJECTURE.
Andyray ArlyleCay
there were his comments when he was on the bench. i doubt management loved those
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by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 10:36 PM MST up reply actions
Ah, and here comes the confirmation bias.
At exactly what point do you start to realize that life without knowledge is death in disguise?
It’s when you think something like “was he bad for the team?” and your mind automatically recalls evidence for it; but not evidence to the contrary.
At exactly what point do you start to realize that life without knowledge is death in disguise?
I’m totally unfamiliar to these rumor tbqph. Never heard em before. It’s just completely typical for them to suddenly surface when he gets traded.
At exactly what point do you start to realize that life without knowledge is death in disguise?
I’m sorry that you hadn’t heard these rumors, however the implication that I made them up out of thin air is kind of….
Andyray ArlyleCay
That is not what I said.
Just that it’s a typical time to remember them.
At exactly what point do you start to realize that life without knowledge is death in disguise?
by SteveHouse on Feb 22, 2012 7:58 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
Important point. Very few people seem to remember that we once equated Quincey with Cumiskey
And people were wrong then too
Maybe
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Feb 22, 2012 4:44 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Good point
Management does not seem to like second tear inconsistent players. Stewart and now Quincey..
Btw.. Stewy was still not quite considered a top PF before he was traded. Quincey could not be considered a permanent fixture as a No.2 or No.3 either..
Btw.. Stewy was still not quite considered a top PF before he was traded. Quincey could not be considered a permanent fixture as a No.2 or No.3 either..Off Season has some good UFAs coming both on wing and D.. Matt Carle?
I love Carle, i believe he’s friends with Stazz from DU? But im not sure. I’d love to see him here
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by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 10:18 PM MST up reply actions
To further that a little bit I really have to respect the pattern of buying low on players and selling high (maybe not so much on JML). It makes me wonder who else on the roster has serious value right now compared to the start of the season…..
Andyray ArlyleCay
OReilly…. shudders
they wouldnt… right?
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by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 10:21 PM MST up reply actions
radar for ryan? no thanks
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by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 10:22 PM MST up reply actions
could probably also include SOB
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by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 10:23 PM MST up reply actions
Very true. Although I fell in love with him and his awkward spin-o-rama the other night just cemented my man crush.
I find myself wondering about Duchene…… Tons of value.
Andyray ArlyleCay
What would you want back? Parise?
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by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 10:26 PM MST up reply actions
gross, not for duchene
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by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 10:28 PM MST up reply actions
Not much out there I would take for Duchene..
Malkin once Crosby is back? Probably need to add a little haha
I’d trade the whole team for malkin, we’d be better with him playing 1 on 5 and goalie
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by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 10:30 PM MST up reply actions
You could totally sell them on giving up Malkin for Duchene if Crosby was not hurt. Gives them more cap space.. Malkin plays better without Crosby in the lineup..
doubt it.
Malkin is close to the best player in the NHL
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by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 10:35 PM MST up reply actions
Duchene for Seguin is a lateral move at best especially at this early point in their careers.
As for the question of what I’d want back for Duchene. A 1A Dman (D person? I don’t want to be offensive….) or a Parise type wing.
Andyray ArlyleCay
Sorry if someone posted this already but, lines when muells and gali are back? My take:
landy/oreilly/hej
muells/dutch/downie
gali/olver/jones
whocares/McC/winnik
Focus on 8th
That was dumb...
Didnt leave him out on purpose, I like Stastny. I think gali/stas/olver could work but stas needs better people around him to be effective… if only Parise was on the team
Focus on 8th
by avsfanatic33 on Feb 21, 2012 11:39 PM MST up reply actions
I like it but where is Stastny? Maybe between Olver and Jones?
by LeonardoC6 on Feb 21, 2012 10:26 PM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
MHH. Would you trade OReilly if it meant a signed Suter/Weber calibre D coming back?
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by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 10:24 PM MST reply actions
This makes my head hurt
THE COLORADO AVALANCHE HAVE WON THE STANLEY CUP. RAYMOND BOURQUE: A DREAM COME TRUE!
by Pyotr09AVS! on Feb 21, 2012 10:26 PM MST up reply actions
Having Duchene and Stastny make that a yes. You’d be crazy not to. I love Orly, but he’s not more valuable than a potential Norris trophy winner.
Andyray ArlyleCay
Would you rather send Duchene or OReilly for a guy like that?
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by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 10:27 PM MST up reply actions
Honestly, right now Duchene*
*Please note that Paul crossland doesn’t know what the fuck he’s talking about and only has gut instinct and crazy inferences to reference when discussing player potential.
Andyray ArlyleCay
right now my gut says the same. But i know deep down if we traded him he’d become an 80 point guy. He’d definitely be a 70 point guy in the east
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by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 10:30 PM MST up reply actions
This would be after this year which would mean he would need to improve next years point pace. The respective team would also be giving up one of those just after signing them long term..
I can’t even compute it..
Radar for a signed Weber or Suter? In a heart beat. It’s a no brainer, for me.
I’d trade Radar before Duchene. Dutchy has so much more upside. He’s not nearly a complete hockey player, but there’s a decent chance he will, and I don’t trade that type of talent over a good season from an overachiever. The value of Duchene is still higher than Radar, imo.
...holy freaking f*ck, snakes!
Yes
with tears a-streamin
At exactly what point do you start to realize that life without knowledge is death in disguise?
by SteveHouse on Feb 21, 2012 10:32 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
No, for one sole reason, he is our future captain and will be one hell of a fuckin captain.
"I see now that the circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant; it is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are." - Mewtwo
by ProfessorOak on Feb 21, 2012 11:49 PM MST up reply actions
This was meant to be a reply somewhere else… i’m new at this
by Avaholics Anonymous on Feb 21, 2012 10:28 PM MST up reply actions
that is what we call a Jibble
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by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 10:29 PM MST up reply actions
you sir
are doing it right
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by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 10:30 PM MST up reply actions
This is from Puck Daddy's "Did Sherman know Quincey would get flipped?" piece
Sherman was asked that on NHL Live on Tuesday: Was he aware, or did he just wash his hands of the situation after acquiring Downie?
Said Sherman:
“I think there’s a bit of both there. I had good conversations with Steve in there [being] potentially a 3-way scenario. But what we’re trying to do is improve our club and Steve was a piece that we wanted to add, so … to your point of washing your hands, once you make that move and you get the player that you’re looking to bring in, then what happens from there is their business. Kyle played very well for us and he wore the jersey with pride.”
he wore the jersey with pride
At exactly what point do you start to realize that life without knowledge is death in disguise?
Alternate ending
he wore the jersey with pride
A crummy commercial?
At exactly what point do you start to realize that life without knowledge is death in disguise?
by SteveHouse on Feb 21, 2012 10:44 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
this is like, when you’re watching a movie, and they have dialogue that has the title of the movie in it, ahahahaah
"I see now that the circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant; it is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are." - Mewtwo
by ProfessorOak on Feb 21, 2012 11:50 PM MST up reply actions
Well, I did. He was never a fav, but he was fine.
But he was an ex-Dead thing. That was always a pretty nasty blemish.
Just a Colorado girl in Montana who ♥s the Avs and writes for Mile High Hockey.
I always liked him for being an ex-Dead Thing…I had hoped this being spurned and cast aside by them would lead him to be more motivated when playing against them. Not so much, I guess.
by quietstorm560 on Feb 22, 2012 2:00 AM MST up reply actions
I liked his eyes…
"I see now that the circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant; it is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are." - Mewtwo
by ProfessorOak on Feb 21, 2012 11:51 PM MST up reply actions
So wait tampa got a prospect and a 1st round for downie!?
I dont know about downie. I would have liked it more to see a goal scorer for quincey…
WORN WITH PRIDE!
by Soedy on Feb 21, 2012 11:12 PM MST via mobile reply actions
Yeah, I would have liked if he was worth a top 6 winger too. Then again, he would have been a better d-man if that was the case.
Also from what I’ve read “prospect” is generous, more of an AHL throw in
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by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 21, 2012 11:18 PM MST up reply actions
Top 6 guy for Quincey? We would get a Galiardi. He was a top 6 guy, wasnt he? My point being no way is anyone giving up a real top 6 guy for Quincey.
by Pinchy The Lobster on Feb 22, 2012 12:14 AM MST up reply actions
Thats what i’m saying. Its not like there were top sixers available for Quincey and Sherm was like “nah, we’d rather take less”
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by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 22, 2012 12:20 AM MST up reply actions
Yeah. I pretty much mis-read your post
by Pinchy The Lobster on Feb 22, 2012 12:22 AM MST up reply actions
relevant
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by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 22, 2012 12:24 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
To be fair, the prospect is a career ECHLer-AHLer
"I see now that the circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant; it is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are." - Mewtwo
by ProfessorOak on Feb 21, 2012 11:51 PM MST up reply actions
Another plus. Downie has a legit playoff beard:
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by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 22, 2012 12:26 AM MST reply actions 2 recs
nope this one
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by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 22, 2012 12:26 AM MST up reply actions
He looks like a nice enough fellow.
by Pinchy The Lobster on Feb 22, 2012 12:27 AM MST up reply actions
He’s Bauer-Man
THE COLORADO AVALANCHE HAVE WON THE STANLEY CUP. RAYMOND BOURQUE: A DREAM COME TRUE!
by Pyotr09AVS! on Feb 22, 2012 10:53 AM MST up reply actions
I swear to god if AJ doesn’t like this trade I will start an internet war with him.
by Pinchy The Lobster on Feb 22, 2012 12:27 AM MST reply actions
i almost hope he doesnt.
that would be fun to watch
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by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 22, 2012 12:31 AM MST up reply actions
I think Downie simply doesn’t make a big difference for this Avs team. Even if he gets to that 20ish goal area again (which looks like a longish shot) he’s going to do it as a blue-chipper on a 3rd/4th line role. I love Lappy. He was fun to watch, and by all accounts a great, great teammate. If Downie is that guy, that’s great. Still won’t help the team where they need it most. Scoring goals.
The only positive spin is that I like chippy, hard working guys on lower lines. They are fun to watch, even if they are occasionally a train wreck.
I'll keep this brief.
I think that there are a lot of variables in this trade. Who knows what will be the fall out? He could really thrive in this environment with different talent to work with, in a new conference, with a new team and coaches. Then again, he could really just crap the bed but the fact that we shaved another million off the payroll to possibly utilize in the upcoming free agency market is a plus. Quincey wasn’t going to be here much longer from the sound of things—why not see if a trade like this sparks something. Sure, Downie isn’t a legit Top 6’er but it’s not like we got a useless turd either…
by quietstorm560 on Feb 22, 2012 2:08 AM MST up reply actions
Gotta love this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArPk3Gz-Q4Y
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by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 22, 2012 12:33 AM MST reply actions
Tomorrow could be interesting, Downie looks to have some history in LA
Dunno wtf is up with that music though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfNGlIU2Bxw&feature=related
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by Cole D Hamilton on Feb 22, 2012 12:39 AM MST reply actions
Yeah
I think we got way more people that would kill people in LA to have his back now. It would be scary if LA kept trying shit with him. Landeskog.. Wilson.. SOB
That music is wonderful
THE COLORADO AVALANCHE HAVE WON THE STANLEY CUP. RAYMOND BOURQUE: A DREAM COME TRUE!
by Pyotr09AVS! on Feb 22, 2012 10:59 AM MST up reply actions
And the remainder of Preissing’s contract IIRC…
by quietstorm560 on Feb 22, 2012 2:09 AM MST up reply actions
Mixing toughness with skill
This may shed some light on what the Avs were thinking in making this trade:
“The other day at Pension Plan Puppets there was a discussion about the merit (of) Steve Downie and whether the Leafs should go after him if Tampa made him available. In it I brought up the fact that when Steven Stamkos or Martin St. Louis or Vincent Lecavalier play with Downie their offensive numbers increase, sometimes dramatically.”
http://hockeyanalysis.com/2012/02/18/mixing-in-toughness-with-skill/
No soup for you!
Good luck
to my man Downie. As a Bolts season ticket holder I have enjoyed watching him play. IMO I look at him more as a solid third line player who can actually cut down the difference in skill between the second and third tiers. He was really starting to gel last year on a line with Dominic Moore and Sean Bergenheim. Unfortunately Bergy went further south during the offseason and Downie was elevated to top six status. I think that sometimes he is a bit slow in his decision making but you can’t question his effort. A bit slow for top six in my opinion. If the Avs needed some grit and a teamate that will always come to the aid of others, you got your man. Fun to watch as hardly a shift goes by where he isn’t jawwing with the opposition or the linesman. Sometimes I think he has been unfairly penalized by reputation alone. I took my kids to meet him at a meet and greet last year and he is actually quite small in stature but he does play much bigger on the ice. He really has matured a lot as far as controlling his temper which I attribute somewhat to his best friend Stamkos. He does pass the puck well and is not afraid to crash the net after a loose puck. My Bolts have some problems to fix mainly caused by some organizational strangling long term contracts, but I can assure you that Downie was not sent packing because he was part of the problem. I think Yzerman is actually looking at the Avs and Oilers as examples of our future direction by getting younger until some of these contracts run their course.
Good luck with Downie, I think you’ll enjoy him.
by malapraxis on Feb 22, 2012 7:38 AM MST reply actions 4 recs
Thanks very much for the insight!
Mile High Hockey - Lucy is a b*tch
by MalachiConstant on Feb 22, 2012 7:49 AM MST up reply actions
awesome, thanks for your input!
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
So what you’re saying is that Stamkos is coming next?
THE COLORADO AVALANCHE HAVE WON THE STANLEY CUP. RAYMOND BOURQUE: A DREAM COME TRUE!
by Pyotr09AVS! on Feb 22, 2012 11:02 AM MST up reply actions
I don’t know if I’ve ever been so on the fence about a trade before.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
so ironic, because I think the last time I was this sold on an Avalanche trade was when we got Bourque
DDC is deeply embedded throughout this blog. For better or worse, his taint taints us all.
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Feb 22, 2012 9:22 AM MST up reply actions
That’s why I find it so surprising you love this trade since you and I usually pretty close to the same page on these things.
I understand it logically, but I can’t help but feel we didn’t get good value back.
Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings
I know. maybe I’ve just been drinking too much of the kool aid
DDC is deeply embedded throughout this blog. For better or worse, his taint taints us all.
by David Driscoll-Carignan on Feb 22, 2012 9:36 AM MST up reply actions
I initially hated the trade, thinking we could have and should have received more in return for Quincey, but I’ve moved over to indifferent and wait and see. If Downie ups our overall team toughness without being an idiot who crosses the line and puts us down a man too often, then that is good. And I guess it was good that we actually had a little bit of salary floor flexibility to shed even more off of our already league low payroll running down the stretch!
We see a wonderful sun-soaked city nestled at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. Enos sees nickels and dimes.
Quincey bought his ticket out of town when he foolishly flapped his lips about sitting in the press box coming off the IR. His play was already in a 10 game slide when he went down, the Avs got on a pretty good streak while he was out. With no real #1 d-man on the team at the time, how could you EXPECT to be put right back into the lineup? In his head he was obviously #1 and has earned a roster spot. Truth be told he barely played for the Avs in the grand scheme of things, was streaky at best & injury prone. Quincey’s comment came across as immature, his tone was different for every interview he gave, before his injury he looked like one of the happier guys on the bench, afterwards he looked like a miserable prick.
Quincey was a tough sell I bet for the Sherminator. From the outside looking in, he looks to be a solid top 4 D-man. Watching him for 30-40 games a year on your own team, there is a lot of questions about his game.
I’m not a massive fan of Downie. I felt as if he was a retard on skates when he first broke into the league. He was obviously a reckless player and seems to have gotten things under control.
Putting his reputation aside and ignoring his small stature, his style is EXACTLY what this team needed. There are only 2 players on the Avs that game in & game out you must keep your head up otherwise Tweety bird will be flying around your head for some time. Wilson & Landeskog. Adding Downie means there will be at least 3 lines rolling at all times where every one carrying the puck knows if they get caught looking down, it means their lights will be out.
Overall I think it was an excellent trade. If Downie doesn’t come unglued, he is going to open up the ice for whoever is on his line, he can dish the puck and jam in some goals too. Quincey was a bitch. /End
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