Sandy Clough And Bob Costas Should Get Married

by Joe Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:02:32 PM EDT

Because I absolutely love it when dinosaur Old Media types toss out tired, old cliches about sports blogs and bloggers---which they clearly don't understand at all, and often equate with infamous message board dipshits---I have to turn your attention to the giant collective sigh caused by Bob Costas.

I like Bob Costas.  He's got a great voice, and he knows his shit.  He's been a loud critic of Barry Bonds and all of his fellow cheaters in baseball, has ridiculed Terrell Owens and the other attention hogs in the NFL, and has been generally harsh as hell on the culture of stupidity in the NBA.  To my knowledge he hasn't actually talked about hockey since 1992, but hey, I know my place as a puck fan.*

Anyway, Costas has weighed in on the whole "Blogs As False Controversy" topic with these tidbits of genius:

...it's one thing if somebody just sets up a blog from their mother's basement in Albuquerque and they are who they are, and they're a pathetic get-a-life loser, but now that pathetic get-a-life loser can piggyback onto someone who actually has some level of professional accountability and they can be comment No. 17 on Dan Le Batard's column or Bernie Miklasz' column in St. Louis. That, in most cases, grants a forum to somebody who has no particular insight or responsibility. Most of it is a combination of ignorance or invective.

It's just a high-tech place for idiots to do what they used to do on bar stools or in school yards, if they were school yard bullies, or on men's room walls in gas stations. That doesn't mean that anyone with half a brain should respect it.

Seriously?  Costas, you're like a year (or more) late with this bullshit ignorant outburst.

Anyway, Will Leitch at Deadspin has registered his own disappointed response to The Short One.  It's worth reading, but it's been said by most of us before.  If you're interested in something a little harsher and with more invectives, try With Leather.  Now that's some clever Photoshopping.

I'm sure there will be dozens of angry posts across dozens of angry sports blogs about Costas and his ignorance today.  I'll just say this: what the hell does he care?  What difference does it make to him?  He's still pulling down six figures (or more) a year, right?  Why can't other people sit at the table?  Seriously, it's just sports.  

Sports reporters and broadcasters think they're Moses or something bringing the heavy news down to us peons from on high.  They get paid to talk about guys who throw balls around for a living.  They're not that fucking important.

*By the way, reversing the letters to say "fuck pan" is funny.

  • ::


Tags: State Of The Blog, Bob Costas, Non-Avalanche (all tags)

Comments Disabled | 26 comments

Menu

Sponsors


'

  • Haven't we (none / 0)

    exhausted this argument yet. I mean seriously if blogger's can win Peabody's, and affect the national sports conversation landscape as much as Deadspin, The Big Lead, they have to be taken seriously right? At least some of them?

    I'm also tired of the accountability argument. You know what there are plenty of Sports columnists out there who are exactly like tenured college professors who have lost all their accountability, and credibility but are still employed by a newspaper because they are a big name. they still just spout off what they want when they want, but because they used to write well and stood inside a locker room 20 years ago they are supposed to have some sort of insight that I don't? (I'm looking in Lupica's direction, among others)

    by Jibblescribbits on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:58:40 PM EDT

    • Re: Haven't we (none / 0)

      We can look closer to home, even.  Why on earth is Woody Paige still employed?  His columns are nothing but a string of weak one-liners about out-dated topics.  He'll go a whole season without mentioning the Avalanche once and then chime in when somebody gets hurt like he knows what he's talking about.

      And then he goes on Around The Horn on ESPN and the stuff he says is even dumber than what he writes in his columns.

      by Joe on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 03:05:23 PM EDT

      [ Parent ]

  • Costas (none / 0)

    He was at the winter classic game.  But for some reason the only thing he talked about was the movie Slap Shot during intermission.  Because, you know, that was relavent to the outdoor game somehow.  They both have hockey and, um, yeah.  Costas didn't come off as a huge fuck pan though.

    by InYoFace on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:23:32 PM EDT

  • So (none / 0)

    Let me get this straight.  Sports fans are supposed to be confined to the daily AP articles that permeate the  websites such as ESPN, Denverpost & RMN.com, TSN, ect. which rehash the same news release?  We are to only see the world of sports as the commentators see fit?  
    Spare me.
    I would much rather follow hockey on the blogs as they deliver witty and irreverent analysis (MMH), emotional and often poetic accounts of historical events (the Dog and Pony Show - see "When the Man Comes"), and great stats and scenarios (In the Cheap Seats).  I, for one, am tired of reading the mindless drivel the "professional" journalists spout as news with lame  headlines such as "Opponents Suffering a Case of March Badness" (sorry Dater)and "Forsberg Out Again Tonight" and the boring prose which follows.

    I just don't understand why Clough and Costas are so quick to characterize bloggers as deadbeat computer junkies who lack intelligence.  The hallmark of an intelligent person is one who derives his views  of the world from many sources, considers differing view points, and making conclusions.
    Whether they like it or not, blogs are showing more journalistic talent than the media dinosaurs .   They are just jealous.        

    by texacogirl on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:32:10 PM EDT

    • Re: So (none / 0)

      It's clear that they feel threatened by blogs or they wouldn't even bother talking about them.  If the online sports world was filled with nothing but inconsequential idiots, then what difference would it make to them?

      But I have to assume that they see the influence blogs have on politics, sports and entertainment and they feel left out.  Like their hallowed status as authority figures is somehow seriously threatened.  It's a little threatened, but they still play an important role.  Why they don't embrace blogs and online communities and work with them instead of against them makes no sense.

      And their ridiculously inflated senses of self-worth got old a long time ago.

      by Joe on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:46:51 PM EDT

      [ Parent ]

      • Reminding me (none / 0)

        This reminds me of the Music industries handling of online file-sharing.

        In fact I think it's such a good analogy I am going to devote a blog post about it this weekend. here's the gist of my thoughts though:

        They were so threatened by it and so perplexed by the freshness of it that instead of creatively trying to find ways to incorporate it into their business model, they tried to outlaw it and discredit it. Finally, when financial ruin was the only other option, they have (started) to learn how to embrace it.

        by Jibblescribbits on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:59:54 PM EDT

        [ Parent ]

  • Fasten your seatbelts boys... (none / 0)

    This topic is getting boring. Not your writing about it Joe, just the old dina-sour types bitching about it. Theres a whole big world out there that these types haven't kept up and they're ignorance is showing for not having grown along with it. Sandy, Bob and all other Olde School Media Types:  Please Fasten your seatbelts and keep your arms n' legs inside (and your mouths shut) until the ride comes to a complete stop.

    PS: I bow to Leather's photoshopping creativity.

    by Rookie on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:17:33 PM EDT

  • coming at this from the other angle... (none / 0)

    I'm married to a sports journalist (she covers high school mostly).  She's been to school for 4 years, worked at various papers across the country, and she's also pretty tech savvy.

    She doesn't have a high opinion of blogs in general.  As far as I can tell, this seems to stem from the fact that she is used to media as a money-maker.  If she gets the facts wrong on a factual article or slanders someone in a story, not only will people stop reading, she's probably made herself or her paper subject to libel or defamation lawsuits.  In the case of sports, as I'm sure Dater could tell us, you have to be even more careful or the team won't talk to you if you cast aspersions towards a player or the organization as a whole.  But there's a fine line between being sensitive to whom you're covering and not reporting all the facts.

    Because of this issue, she's been trained in and is very careful to stay within what she would call "journalistic integrity."  I'm always advising her (at her request) on when she's maybe being too hard on a high school kid, or when she's dancing around the issues facing a school to not piss off the coach.  I had no idea how hard walking that line is until I met her.

    Bloggers could care less about this in general since they're blogging for enjoyment and not money, and it totally breaks journalist's brains.  I wonder how long before a prominent money-making blog gets sued for libel or slander?  I bet it's coming, and then suing blogs will get fashionable, and all of a sudden blogging will be quite a bit more dicey...

    also, this doesn't even mention how bloggers -- even the ones in this community -- are both the money makers and the writers of content.  I'm not suggesting anyone here is on the take -- but hypthetically -- what if the Avs came to you, Joe, and offered you 100k a year to become an unofficial arm of their marketing dept.?  Dude, if I was you, I'd be all over that!

    You see this all the time in political blogs, gaming sites -- the writers are on the take for whomever they're writing about.  Journalists are again sheltered from this rigorously -- editorial and advertising depts. are separated, and it's hammered into them all the time to remain objective as they report because they have to think of their long term audience.  Sure, you could take 100k a year to march to the beat of the avalanche drum, but you'd probably end up killing this place in the long run because people would realize you're just a shill.  Papers and journalists understand this, and work hard to avoid it.

    So when she sees a blog (or anyone) pretending to be a "news source" or if it's a money-making operation, warning claxons go off in her mind.  Frankly, her rants opened my eyes some -- particularly in a corrupt environment like politics, the power blogs wield can indeed be pretty scary.

    anyways, I'm just kind of rambling.  blogs are a buyer beware situation.  the irritating thing about Sandy and Costas is that they think ALL blogs are the loose cannon money-maker or scary kinds of blogs.  my wife likes this blog and ITCS in particular because they're straight up opinion and community places, even though she freaks out upon seeing the word fuck in the middle of an editorial still.  she's capable of making the distinction between opinion and commumity sites and the scary blogs.  clearly Costas and Clough are not.

    by thedoctor on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:00:51 PM EDT

    • Re: (none / 0)

      You see this all the time in political blogs, gaming sites -- the writers are on the take for whomever they're writing about.  Journalists are again sheltered from this rigorously -- editorial and advertising depts. are separated, and it's hammered into them all the time to remain objective as they report because they have to think of their long term audience.

      I just don't feel like this is the case anymore. The news media is so concerned over crap like Brittney Spears little sister's pregnancy that real important news gets set aside to the back burner. And there are plenty of places out there that call themselves "news". This isn't just bloggers, it's all news.

      And a blogger has been sued for slander (granted in Canada) because he criticized the Leafs owner (i believe). And while your wife has journalistic integrity, there are plenty out there who don't. Last year Mike Reilly, coach of OK State football, had his face plastered all over ESPN for his "I'm a man, I'm 40" speech, but when someone looked into the column that had him irked they realized that it was a journalistic irresponsible piece, and it was malicious and pretty much wrong. Basically it was everything that journalists find wrong with blogs, right there in a newspaper.

      Point being this happens EVERYWHERE and isn't limited to blogs. News stories get things wrong, then print retractions on page 6 all the time. But they sold their papers so it's all good.

      I guess my point is that blogs are as credible as the authors make them, just as newspapers are as credible as the editors make them. And I am still liable for slander just as I was before I started blogging. Anyone can be sued for slander, not just journalists.  

      by Jibblescribbits on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:40:34 PM EDT

      [ Parent ]

    • Re: coming (none / 0)

      If the Avs contacted me and offered me 100k, I'd take it, but there's no way I'd try to hide it.  The name of the blog would become "Mile High Hockey, The OFFICIAL Blog of the Colorado Avalanche."

      And everybody would know which side my bread was buttered on, so to speak.

      Would that drive people away?  Probably.  But it would make me a lot richer, and as long as I'm being honest about my motives, so be it.  

      There's no reason bloggers can't make money from what they do as long as they're honest and open about it, and their readers understand that they are bound by the same (or worse) limitations as journalists.

      But I'm not doing this to score a pay day.  That's what law school is for.

      by Joe on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 11:11:24 PM EDT

      [ Parent ]

    • interesting points, doc (none / 0)

      one thing I was thinking about as I read through all this: when someone in the MSM puts down the blogging community, we bloggers always (or at least often) point out the MSM is scared of the growing power of the bloggers.

      But I wonder if there isn't a little of the opposite at work as well. Bloggers have rather quickly and quietly carved out a huge niche in the internet reporting segment. Much like file sharing and the idiotic music industry, I think it kind of took MSM by surprise. Today, though, you're seeing more and more of a blogging presence by MSM guys and I think there might be some underlying fear that the bloggers will get squeezed out a bit. I'm reasonably sure Dater's blog has way more readers than mine - x times more. I like Dater, and am not afraid to say his work is better than mine. But is it x times better (again, I'm thinking x is a pretty big number)?

      In some ways, I think I'm a little different than a typical blogger. For one thing, when I started ITCS 18 months ago, I really didn't know what a "blog" was and I don't know that I'd ever even seen an Avalanche-related blog. I try to read all Avalanche related blogs now, I have very little experience with the more, um, mainstream blogs (deadspin, fanhouse, etc). Case in point: I didn't know what sbnation was when Joe approached me to guest here. I do consider myself a blogger, not a journalist (hence the occasional f-bombs to make doc's wife uncomfortable), but even in my limited experience I know that both terms - "bloggers" and "journalists" - are about as defining as the word "breather". Just think about the Avalanche bloggers - about as narrow a group as you'll find, and yet everyone has a completely different voice (even if most of us generally agree on most of the bullet points).

      I guess that's why I find the story fascinating, but don't get very worked up when Clough or Costas or even Adrian "Underwear" Dater pokes some fun at bloggers. They are generalizing way too much when they try to define bloggers as a group, but the very fact that we've got an acronym - MSM - for the other side tells me we do the same thing. We're just not important enough for anyone to care. :)

      by Draft Dodger on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 10:37:21 AM EDT

      [ Parent ]

      • Re: interesting points, doc (none / 0)

        I disagree completely.  I am the most important person on the entire internet, and am way more talented, skilled and better looking than any journalist anywhere.

        Also, I wear a full suit when I blog from my rooftop penthouse.  

        The reason the MSM---which consists of thousands of completely identical idiots who all think exactly the same and produce the same quality work---fears us, nay, trembles at the very mention of the word "blog," is because of me.  Yes, me personally.

        I stand by these words and would gladly sacrifice my completely unrelated day job if proven wrong.

        by Joe on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 11:22:50 AM EDT

        [ Parent ]

  • F'ing A (none / 0)

    I can't believe I am typing this.

    My hunch as an internet junkie is that the ratio of bad writers is far far higher in the blogosphere. Strong hunch from lots of experience. Bad writers has a variety of meaning.

    I do find it highly ironic have absolutely pissed off Joe is at the media, considering we all use the news they bring us.

    These sports blogs are nothing more than freelance editorials. I enjoy that. Quit getting pissy about bloggers getting trampled on, it won't help you.

    That OK state thing, the writer ended up with his name soiled. Bloggers spout far worse things all the time and get away with it.

    I think there is a slow merging over the next years in media outlets. Both sides can just deal and stfu.

    All this bitching back and forth is wearing me thin. I come to this place to talking about fucking SPORTS. I skip all these blogger politic crap posting because I don't give a flip. I don't come here to listen to Joe get righteous at the media and resort spitting swear words with blind rage. I came in this thread on accident and started reading and now I am posting. If you want us to have credible words look at yourselves too.

    Never trust the lunch lady.

    by lowayne on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:39:10 PM EDT

    • Re: F'ing A (none / 0)

      I think you're misunderstanding my outrage.  I'm not trying to defend all bloggers, since many are terrible and/or tool bags.  That goes for journalists, too.  But simply because I disagree with or don't respect one or two journalists, or even most of them, I don't try to paint them with broad brushes and summarily dismiss them as idiots.

      Without hard journalism and game broadcasting, sports blogs would have no content.  I've never criticized journalists for actually doing the jobs they're paid to do, and will never do that.  

      I'm not lashing out at journalists for being journalists, I'm lashing out at them for being naive, behind-the-times douche bags.  Their silly, generalized criticisms of blogs target their own audiences, and make them seem less credible than they are.  Bob Costas is a superb sports journalist, and I respect him for the work he's done, but lashing out at bloggers in an ignorant, reactionary way that belittles and mocks his very audience makes me never want to watch him again.  If nobody watches him, he doesn't get paid and we lose a very good journalist.

      I think it's important to bring up issues that face sports blogs because Mile High Hockey is a sports blog.  Sure, it's not specifically Avalanche-related, but it's still something that affects all of us who write, read, and participate in blogging.

      Bloggers aren't journalists, and should not be held to the same standards.  But journalists need to recognize that we boost their audiences.  It's a symbiotic relationship that's not going away.  Everyone needs to recognize it and embrace it.

      End rant.

      by Joe on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:47:51 PM EDT

      [ Parent ]

  • I just want to know (none / 0)

    how you become qualified to present sports news, is there a school i an go to where i get the qualifications neccessary to tell people about sports. I always thought that watching and studying sports for years was enough to qualify me as someone who knows sports but i guess i was wrong.

    by Savage33 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:51:04 PM EDT

  • All I know ... (none / 0)

    Is that I would have scooped all of our local Av MSM on Stastny's injury.  I saw it before he quit playing.  To the best of my knowledge, nobody on the Fan, nobody on Altitude, and none of the beat writers even had a fricken clue.  Which is just sad.

    But I'm also not too concerned by the rants of the MSM.  What will come to pass will come to pass.  I enjoy popping in here because it is a more responsive and free (except when net nanny pulls the plug) environment.  And in general the hockey and Av knowledge here and in other referenced blogs such as ITCS is great.  Now, on the DMN blog, on the other hand .... wow, just fricken wow.  Can we just give Texas to Mexico?

    by Bob in Boulder on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:58:52 PM EDT

  • My 2 cents (none / 0)

    You see this all the time in political blogs, gaming sites -- the writers are on the take for whomever they're writing about.  Journalists are again sheltered from this rigorously -- editorial and advertising depts. are separated, and it's hammered into them all the time to remain objective as they report because they have to think of their long term audience.

    Journalists aren't sheltered from this, not at all. You know how many athletes/coaches/politicians get favorable treatment because they know how to work the media? Who gives a fuck if Player X is a "good guy" - that shouldn't cloud the way you cover him, but it sure as hell does. It's natural and it's easy to fall in to. And you know how many people get hammmered because they're anti-social bastards? Barry Bonds is a prick, you don't think that's affected how he's covered? Come on.

    And it's been pointed out a million times, but if blogs are full of shit, people will call them on it and stop visiting.

    The pecking order used to be this:

    Newspaper columnist > Newspaper beat writer > TV guys > Radio guys

    Now it's this:

    Newspaper columnist > Newspaper beat writer > TV guys > Radio guys > BLOGGERS

    Shit rolls downhill. You'll read the snotty comments from newspaper guys about the stupid questions that TV guys ask at press conferences (as if newspaper guys are immune from asking ridiculously idiotic questions). And now all the "real" media are jumping on bloggers - big deal. It'll all shake out however it will.

    I enjoy reading guys like Posnanski and Dan Steinberg - journalists who also blog. Because they know how to write, and they have their own "voice." And that's why I've been impressed with many of the writers on the "good" Avs blogs. They have obvious writing skills, they have ideas, they are developing their own voices...just really, truly impressed overall.

    by Dan Winkler on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 03:13:06 PM EDT

Comments Disabled | 26 comments



Another great SB Nation site
© 2007 SportsBlogs, Inc.