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St. Patrick Behind The Bench?

Former Avalanche goaltender Patrick Roy is a coach.  The Colorado Avalanche currently have a coaching vacancy to fill with the departure of Joel Quenneville (remember Don Cherry, he wasn't fired).  Therefore, Patrick Roy is automatically a candidate for the job.

Forget the fact that Roy has only been coaching hockey for a few years, and only at the junior level (in the offense-only QMJHL).  Forget that hiring him would instantly be labeled a publicity stunt more than an actual move to improve the franchise.  Forget that Francois Giguere would have to justify a growing string of nostalgia hirings, even if they've proven reasonably successful so far.  Forget the fact that any and all mistakes or shortcomings suffered by the team would be magnified ten fold, just by the name behind the bench.  It's a wonder Wayne Gretzky survived this long in Phoenix.

Sure enough, because Patrick Roy is a coach somewhere, he's a candidate for the Avalanche job.  

"Yes, I will talk to the Avalanche if they call," Roy said. "Yes, I will sit down with (general manager) Francois Giguere if he wants to talk about being the coach."

And he's at least somewhat interested.

But let's be honest.  When your potential coaching candidates include Pat Burns and even John Tortorella (both of whom have won the Stanley Cup), you'd think Patrick Roy wouldn't be a major consideration, despite his ties to the franchise and the pedestal upon which he sits in the Denver sports pantheon.  Maybe as an assistant coach, sure, but not as an untested head coach of a franchise looking to return to dominance.

To Roy's credit, his Quebec Remparts do play an open-ice, offense-first style of hockey, which is exactly what GM Giguere has said he's looking for.  But the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League is known for its complete lack of defense in comparison to tougher junior leagues like the OHL and the WHL.  The greatest goaltending and defensive prospects do not come from the QMJHL. It's known as a goal-scorers league and has been for a long time by some.

What actually is to Roy's credit is his rigid mindset and steel resolve to be a winner. Patrick Roy never wavers in his pursuit of dominance, and he's an expert at getting into (and then wrecking completely) the minds of his opponents.  He's no softy.  

Also, Avalanche fans wouldn't have to worry about the coach taking out his frustrations on the goaltenders just because.  

Would Patrick Roy at the helm make Jose Theodore even better (if he returns?).  What about Peter Budaj?  No doubt the coaching combination of St. Patrick and Jeff Hackett could produce some really amazing performances in net for the Avalanche.

But, then again, maybe not.

Honestly, I don't think Roy is the right guy for the top job at this point.  Assistant coach?  Absolutely, in a heartbeat.  But for once I'm afraid I'll just have to agree with Bernie Lincicome on this one, if only on just the overall theme that other candidates deserve more attention.

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Roy has been coaching 16 to 20 year olds.  It's a completely different world when you have to coach men who make millions of dollars.  In the CHL you ride the bus, your kids make 20 grand a year if they are lucky and most of them are still growning up.  At the NHL, some approaches to grown men just don't work.  Roy can and should continue his coaching progression by doing time as an assistant coach or coaching in the AHL.  

by Dario on May 12, 2008 10:10 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: St. Patrick Behind The Bench?
He would certainly bring fire to the bench, but would he be capable of putting a winning system in place?  If they do go with Roy, he'll need a few damn good assistants.  And a new training staff, of course.

I'd prefer Burns.  If he is available and willing.  You would think the Av job is among the most attractive out there, FG should have his pick of the litter.

by Bob in Boulder on May 12, 2008 10:10 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The only problem with your post...

The only problem I saw with your post was your argument that the Q doesn't produce good goaltending prospects. Of the three leagues in the CHL, the Q is most well-known for producing goaltenders, and prior to the Finnish goaltending revolution, the Q was the best producer of goaltenders of any league in the world. They have been known for it for a long time.

As for Roy, I say no. Hell no. I'm obviously pretty outspoken against the idea of nostalgia hirings/signings/acquisitions. I'm not a fanboy, and I am not interested in a move made to appease fans. Roy could turn out to be a great head coach in the NHL. Actually, I kind of expect him to. But even if he did, that wouldn't make his hiring right now a good move.

by Neptune on May 12, 2008 10:15 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: The only problem...

Spare me some of my own research and toss out some recent (last fifteen years or so) QMJHL goalies that have become top guys in the NHL.

by Joe @ MHH on May 12, 2008 11:57 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You mean like...

...Martin Brodeur, JS Giguere, MA Fleury, Martin Biron, Pascal Leclaire, Roberto Luongo and Jose Theodore?

As a matter of fact, if you look at the top 25 goalies in sv% last year, only five of them played major junior other than in the QMJHL. Two of those, Legace and Osgood, fall outside your 15 year period. Two others (Budaj and Mike Smith) are backups. Carey Price is the only starting goalie in the top 25 in the league in sv% produced in the last 15 years by a CHL team outside of the QMJHL.

The QMJHL is more known for producing goalies than anything else. I'm surprised you didn't know that.

by Neptune on May 12, 2008 3:12 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Roy

I saw the Kizla article yesterday and really thought it was just trying to stir things up.  Really, if you read it, Roy hasn't been contacted by the Avs and he would take any NHL coaching job if given the chance.  I would agree that he needs an assitant job first or a job in the AHL before coming to the NHL.  Depends on if the Avs are going for putting people in the seats or building a winning hockey team.  I think that if Burns expressed any interest at all that the Avs would go with him.  

by hockeychic on May 12, 2008 10:18 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

question:

So why do all you folks want Pat Burns?  I'm not doubting he's a better coach than Quenneville, but isn't Burns a defense guy?  Didn't he coach the Devils through some of their horrific-to-watch trap days?

Or am I totally wrong?  I'll be honest, I know little about Burns or any other options being tossed around.  Enlighten me.

by thedoctor on May 12, 2008 10:55 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: question

Burns is best known for his work with the Devils in 2003 when they won the Cup, and they were definitely a trapping team.  They more or less perfected it.  But it wasn't Burns who did it first.  Jacques Lemaire "pioneered" it with the Devils in the mid-90s and then  Larry Robinson continued it after the turn of the century.  Burns inherited a trapping team, made some tweaks here and there and won the Cup.

The highest scorer on the Devils that season was Patrick Elias with 57 points.  The team as a whole scored only 210 goals during the regular season.  The only forward of any real goal-scoring talent on the entire team was Joe Nieuwendyk, but he was in the final bit of his career.  The team was built around Scott Niedermayer, Brian Rafalski, Scott Stevens and Martin Brodeur.  If you were the coach of that team, you'd trap, too.

The other two teams that Burns won the Jack Adams with were the 1988-89 Canadiens and the 1992-93 Maple Leafs.  Both teams scored more goals, but both teams were also relatively devoid of top-notch forward talent---and these were pre-trap days.

In sum, Burns is known more for his ability to do more with less than any one style of play.  You know, I think I'm just going to do a post about this.

by Joe @ MHH on May 12, 2008 12:08 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oops

I made a mistake.  Burns didn't win the Jack Adams with the 2002-03 Devils.  His third trophy came with the 1997-98 Bruins.  My bad.

by Joe @ MHH on May 12, 2008 1:09 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Truth Is

Nobody knows how good Roy would be as a bench boss in the NHL, not even Roy himself.  The one thing that strikes me is his fire.  The Avs could certainly use some fire on the team whether it comes from the players or a coach.  I think Roy would for sure provide that fire and a winning mentality.  No one knew how Hartley or Crawford would do.  Stanley Cup and Stanley Cup.

My hesitation comes from the incident with his son and the domestic dispute after winning the Cup.  But the point remains.  No one knows if he would be a success story or a total bust.

While driving home, I had the displeasure of listening to Irv, Joe, and Jim on the Fan talking about the Avs.  These guys are idiots.  They know nothing of hockey and rarely bother to talk about the Avs.  Today they basically said it really doesn't matter who is coach.  The Avs do not have the talent to be a Cup contender anymore.  Of course, I don't agree but I'm a homer.

Although they are idiots, imo, it made me wonder if it's true.
/end rant

by texacogirl on May 12, 2008 5:45 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Q

The QMJHL has been known for producing goal-scorers since the beginning and for producing goaltenders since the early-to-mid-80's.

It's been seen as a no-defense league where scoring is significantly higher than the rest of the CHL, but that's not entirely true. When I ran the numbers in 2002 (and I would assume the same holds true today), the Q had averaged something like .6 goals per game more than the other two leagues in the CHL over the course of five years. It's a matter of opinion as to whether or not .6gpg was significant, but the reason why people always see the Q as a no-defense league is not because so many more goals are scored there, but because the leading scorers have a disproportionately high number of points. In essence, the teams' leading scorers average a higher percentage of their teams' scoring than do the leading scorers of teams in the WHL and OHL. WHL and OHL teams, at least when I ran the numbers, tend to have their scoring more spread out throughout their roster.

Ice time numbers weren't available then, and I have to think it would be interesting to see if the leading scorers in the Q were getting a lot more ice time than those in the WHL and OHL.

by Neptune on May 12, 2008 6:58 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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